What is Happening to Gen Z? | Jonathan Haidt | The Tim Ferriss Show
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2023
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Resources from this episode: tim.blog/2022/12/21/jonathan-...
Jonathan Haidt (@JonHaidt) is a social psychologist at New York University’s Stern School of Business. Jonathan received his PhD from the University of Pennsylvania in 1992. His research examines the intuitive foundations of morality and how morality varies across cultural and political divisions. He is the author of The Happiness Hypothesis and the New York Times bestsellers The Righteous Mind and The Coddling of the American Mind (with Greg Lukianoff).
He has given four TED Talks, and in 2019 he was inducted into the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Since 2018 Jonathan has been studying the contributions of social media to the decline of teen mental health and the rise of political dysfunction. He is currently writing two books: Kids in Space: Why Teen Mental Health Is Collapsing and Life after Babel: Adapting to a World We Can No Longer Share.
Please enjoy!
About Tim Ferriss:
Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 800 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running.
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We dont live in the same era. The survivorship bias makes people think just letting children out unsupervised is good because a lot of things go unreported by children and most dont get reported in the media. We all would like the eash way of just letting children to go "free" anywhere they like but being an ignorant fool not understanding the world we live in with a lot of mentally deviant and unstable people doesnt change reality. All the lines about "I was fine being raised that way and so many others were okay", wont change that.
I've been saying it for a long time now, social media is one of the worst thing to even happen to the humans.
It was invented to bring people together, ironic.
And the worst thing is; it’s a mirror. Showing us who we are
@Brian T…That’s what they say. It was NEVER invented to bring people together. It was to totally distract the youth from the actual real world around them and to live in the virtual world. Next time you see a bunch of kids getting off the school bus, take a close
The worst thing is yet to come. AI + Social Medias. The combo newer generations will get in their face is colossal. kids wont want to do shit anymore.
Next is AI
I’m Gen Z and I was helicopter parented from age 0-16. I had very bad social anxiety and had to work through it and become less shy and more vocal all throughout highschool. I never got a phone at age 11 like I should’ve, just an iPod. All the internet addiction of a phone but none of the texting or calling features. Growing up we always played outside supervised by our parents with our friends until we got laptops and then it was indoors from 6th grade to highschool. It’s kinda a bummer being a part of a generation that was so heavily watched and breathed down upon that you don’t really feel like an adult
Where does helicopter parenting come from? Is it the Gen X or Millennials that became the helicopter parents? What happened in our society that caused parents so much fear for their kids, was it the rise in drug abuse in the 80s, or maybe increase in sensationalized news media of the 80s and 90s????
@@Eserr7856 I literally have a tracker in my phone.
As in my parents track me through this app every damned time, and they’re really dramatic parents too.
Couldn’t even go outside without them watching my every move, now that I am an adult I just don’t care. Whatever, it is what it is.
@@spade2340 wow, that is invasive! Technology has greatly increased surveillance on our smart phones, not just by the government, but also apparently by our own parents.
@@Eserr7856 Helicopter parenting started after the Jaycee Lee Dugard kidnapping. She was taken in 1991 from in front of her home. Kids stopped roaming the neighborhood from that time on.
Add to that the Christian Bros worldwide pedo ring being exposed in 1995, it freaked everyone out. It all changed the world for the worse.
same bro, people wanna blame phones and video games but I wasn't allowed to go run around with other kids so all I had to do was play video games
Survived a level of free range childhood that would likely land parents in jail these days. That & summer camps all before teenage years were, in retrospect, the best gifts my parents ever gave me.
Amazing, thats why I promote Unschooling, Freedom to Learn, because schools are prisons!
free range childhood is an accurate, awesome description. Grateful to have had one myself.
@DoubtingThomas nanny state safety policing creating generations of kids afraid of their own shadows & unable to critically think for themselves.
@DoubtingThomas true enough. The parents get it from somewhere though. A frightened populace is an obedient one. It’s become such a fear based worry wart, safety obsessed culture that the kids will likely inherit & perpetuate. So glad I grew up in a different time.
Ditto
Whilst social media is shaping Gen Z in a harmful way, as a late millenial, on some level I feel that events like 9/11, the War on Terror, and the Great Recession have shaped my world view in a bad way, making me more pessimistic, at least compared to my predecessors.
Boomers worked hard because they had a fighting chance of living the American dream. Millenials worked hard because they needed to survive, without the promise of attaining the American dream and while constantly being called lazy jobhoppers by Boomers. And now, Gen Z seems to have no reason to work hard at all, and I don't blame them, although I can't say I want to become one of them.
'Millennials work to survive' couldn't have said it any better lol I think alot of young Millennials are also having issues with 'finding purpose' like gen z as well.
I was born in 1990, completly agree.
No, they are simply not stupid enough to work for less than a living wage. Boomers sold out to Reaganomics that turned the strongest middle class in history into the working poor. Millennials and Gen Z are not idiots like us Boomers.
@@bapbirb I doubt you are doing much thinking. I have known since the 90's Millennials and Gen Z are going to save us from us.
@@ronniebaker4549 Gen Z can't even save themselves. They are a wreck of a generation. Depression and anxiety rates for Gen Z are sky high.
My daughter was born in 98. We had good relationships and a functional family. She finally (in her eyes) got a cell phone when she was 16. It was like watching someone disappear and change right before my eyes. I tried to regulate and encourage her to get out and about to no avail. The worst to me were the hours and hours of watching other people play video games. We were a very active family. I believe a part of her brain was stunted because of the lack of presence in her life. At 24 she is starting to engage a little more.
This is so sad, God help us.
This is so sad, God help us.
This is so sad, God help us.
You didnt try to regulate what she does at all?
Of course I did. I saw it for what it was and fought and sought help. It created the great divide and I ended up leaving my 30 year marriage. My daughter has not talked to me in 2+ years. Her father enables her and had no respect for my trying to parent. The whole thing was sad and she is a confused (trans?) person adult now with very little skills, attitude and a lot of fear. Living with her father, not working or schooling at 24 years old.
I’m gen z and I wasn’t sheltered at all, by the time I was 15 I could pretty much do what I wanted. As long as I texted my family where I was I could leave for 4 or 5 days without any issues. I only got depressed after I turned 18 and had to start working. Now I go to work, come home, and watch RUclips til I fall asleep. Hate everything about my life and don’t know how to change it. If you want kids to practice “independence” then you should make them pay for everything they do and consume, that is the only way any child will ever actually practice “independence”
You’re probably older gen z if I had to guess. Most of the issues come from the younger parts of gen z. I’m gen z and my older gen z brother is exactly like you.
Its a majority population of Gen Z so stfu !
Maybe try a hobby? Exercise? A pet? Some career training classes? Read some books? Church? Volunteering in your community? Yoga? Go for a walk instead of RUclips? Learn to bake? Take music lessons? Learn an instrument? Go to a free concert? Call a friend and buy some wine or beer and share it with some fancy sausage and cheese? Go jogging? Anything at all. Of course work is unpleasant, that’s why they pay you to do it and not the other way around. The best way to start is small, so maybe something easy like taking a walk in a park after work every day? Maybe find a library and check out one book and tell yourself to read it by the end of next week. Take a dance class? Join a recreational sports league? Getting a state park pass or county park pass and walking in nature is the absolute best antidepressant you can imagine. Quite literally: in studies exercise and exposure to sunlight improves depression. Also I find doing something hard and getting better at it is super satisfying. Simple things like lifting weights, watercolor, baking bread, whatever suits your fancy but getting better at something over time makes you feel really good about yourself. Also if you get some career training you make more money in fewer hours so you have more wiggle room which makes life a lot easier. Also as you get good at something your self worth goes up a lot.
Some unsolicited advice: You're young so focus on yourself and your career. It's easy to fall into the trap of going to work 10 hrs a day 5 days a week and then vegging out and doing nothing outside of work, don't fall for it. Sign up for a class, something that will give you a certification at the end of it (or go for a graduate degree at night), and you'll have to go (because you paid for the class). Also, keep looking for a better job. Finding a job is much easier when you already have one. Take up a hobby, too. Take care of your priorities (work, development, hobby) before vegging out, every day.
Sounds like pretty much everyone.
As a camp counselor until 1994, it does my heart good to hear it. I can still hear my last camp president, whose name was Phil and who had a truly epic mustache, saying "No one in history has ever died of homesickness."
add a caveat... "nobody from his summer camp... has died of homesickness" People that for some reason have been displaced from their homes because of war/conflict probably have died of homesickness.
That he knows of
@@smithrr6 gosh, you must be the life of the parties you are invited to...smh
@@tedgayer336 I dont get invited to parties any more... (cry my self to sleep tonight because I have no friends)
We had no idea what we were doing back then… god, I’m so worried about my teen girl. It’s easy to say in retrospect ‘ oh, just don’t let them have a phone, etc’…. Many of us are just playing catch up with understanding the harms done. If teens do not have a mental illness they are aspiring to one, or faking it. They are nihilistic and hopeless, full of dread and opposition to everything. I fear we are producing a lost generation.
Pretty sure concerns were being voiced about a lot of this all the way back in 2007.
What I don't understand is why the Hell would anyone want to be a parent?; it's a miserable as Hell existence of work work work and more fuc£ing work and stress. I am Generation X who abstained from marriage and parenthood.
The New Lost Generation!
So sad
I turned 40 in 2022 and don't foresee children in my future, but working in a college library for five years I too worry that we are producing a lost generation. It is common enough to be approached by students who have trouble articulating what they are looking for, but I noticed that there is a rather large gap in how they are learning to use the tools to find what they are looking for. Too many people, young and old, know how convenient it is just to Google something, but the older generations are more inclined to spend time thinking about what they are looking for and how they will go about finding it. The simplicities of the internet today have done a helluva job in reducing or eliminated the overall patience people have in finding things and/or waiting for those things to come to them. And since younger generations are more inclined to have expensive things like video games and Smartphones just given to them by parents, they are less inclined to pay their debts or save money because responsibility is the ultimate hazard to the freedoms of adulthood. What's more, as technology has progressed so that people can put in their AirPods and become oblivious to what is around them, multiple generations are telling other people how much they don't care to be bothered.
We already produced lost generations. We've produced several of them since my own. Now we have to clean up the mess and stop making more and don't let our mistakes ruin our lives. We either take responsibility instead of leaving it to the worst among us or we all go down together.
Born in 1990 and this is very accurate. I watched it happen with my very eyes with younger siblings and cousins. My friends and I always say we were the LAST generation to be born before this major change and massive social media/smart phone addiction took over with the slightly younger generations.
You were a teenager during the explosion of smart phones. How can you claim that? And Internet had already taken over.
@@jeffreykalb9752 As stated in this video if you watched it and as I remember, smart phones really didnt explode until around 2010. I was already 20 at that time. I had a flip phone with no internet access as did all my friends during high school. Very different compared to smart phones and having internet and social media in your pocket at all times.
@@Analymouseah Jeffrey obviously didn’t watch or ignored the video. Having a flip phone and maybe MySpace or Facebook access on a computer at home was a lot different than having your face stuck in a smartphone on IG all day. I was born in 1990 also.
@@nrs_207 Right!
As a gen z, I had internet access when I was in middle school. Back then, social media regulation is not as strict as now. You name it. Everything is fair game. I watched so much messed up stuff. The worst thing is we peer pressured each other to watched the most traumatic stuff
Actually that was a good thing. Social media is so horrendously tyrannical in its censorship now. If you didn’t wanna watch isis beheading videos in middle school then you could’ve just said “no”
Same. 96 here. Watched so many things that no one ever should because internet and social media regulation couldn't keep up with the massive growth in users posting rogue content. I believe this along with other things has definitely contributed to the rise in mental health issues since 19996 on.
What sort of stuff did you watch?
When I was 11 I saw a video of a kid diving off a ledge, but he landed partly on the platform below. Then it goes to a scene of his face split open on a hospital bed and the doctor gently pushing both halves back together. How’s that for ya?
@@andrewb8235 Execution, inter-ethnic violence (this is the most violent one), a guy unalive himself in fb live
The thing that worries me is that parents who are strict with their children about eliminating all unhealthy activities risk creating a forbidden fruit effect, setting up their children for future excesses when they have independence. For example my parents forbade many things which were pretty normal in other families, so I overindulged in those things when I got out of their home, for a long time, before coming back to similar self-restrictions on my own. A more balanced, moderation-based model might have been more healthy for me in the longer term.
Possibly, but you getting all of that out of your system and then willingly going back and incorporating what your parents taught you might have been a blessing in disguise. The bad stuff could've just been normalized and you wouldn't have had a reason to cut it out of your life.
@@zusk8556 yes I'm happy for having had the education in a healthy lifestyle, but I'm thinking I might have kept some of the good and been more moderate in my indulgences if that example had been set. Prohibition might lessen risks when successful, but it has it's own risks as well.
I disagree that sending your kids away to Summer camp every Summer is a good idea. I think a couple of Summers maybe when they're young is a good idea so they can have the experience, but let your kids explore their own interests FFS. Summer is the only time they're not being forced to endure compulsory K through 12 education that is filled with tedium.
Yeah my parents sent me to summer camp to get me out of their hair. I hated being forced to do activities I didn't want to do. My favorite memories are of sneaking off somewhere and reading Harry Potter under a tree.
I did one every year but it was only for a week or two and it was something i wanted to do
i think all kids should go to overnight summer camp once, it forces you to be social and make new friends.. but it can be expensive. Day camp sucked i couldnt wait to go home
Not to mention the pedophiles that might be present
He brought up covid, but covid was a big deal for kids in isolating them and forcing them to turn to social media even more than before
The lockdowns were the harmful thing. As far as young people COVID was a mild illness. It was old and unhealthy people who were in danger health wise from covid
@@CarShopping101 The lockdowns caused by covid?
huge deal. these last few years have been fcked
That was ramed down everyone's throat. The 'new normal' was to force us to rely more on tech for all our communication and needs. It was disgusting, they would not even let us communicate in person wit our dying relatives. They could have given us PPE, but they forced us to only communication via a video call. It was a vicious attack on our social bonds and human to human interactions.
@@marianhunt8899 Our dying relatives were dying because of an easily-transmittable virus. If anything technology SAVED countless people during the covid times.
My daughter was born in 2006. Her mother and I dissagreed so much on how she was raised, probably contributed to our split. She(mom) and I both are Gen-X and graduated HS in the 80's. I wanted daughter to NOT have a smart phone until high school, she gave her one at 11. Daughter retreated from all sports, and doesn't go out on weekends. She is a straight A student and wants to go to college. She finally got a job at 16 and at least does some band/singing in choir and school plays. She is a thin, athletic, pretty girl that rarely ever goes out on weekends or after school. When she goes to college she is going to have a tough time adjusting to real life.
I tried to push our daughter into real life away from phones and computers, sadly I think her mom looked at it as a babysitter.
It has me worried.
Five years ago I ditched social media (FB/IG) and haven't looked back. Good luck!
I remember listening to Mr. Haidt a decade ago on various RUclips platforms talking about this.
Only now is the mainstream media grappling with this stuff.
Insane.
Gen Z: 1: Over protected by helicopter parents 2: Given too much technology too young. I was a 70's child. I walked to school in Kindergarten by myself. All kids did. Also as a kid I rode my by for HOURS by myself.Played in the neighborhood park with other kids NO parents. Went trick or treating AFTER DARK with other kids at 9 years old...no parents. I am a home painter so I go into family homes. So many times I see bedrooms of 10 years old kids that have a TV and a computer and a cell phone in their bedroom.. A kid with a 32 inch TV !!!! INSANE ! And all public shools should 100% ban all kids from bringing cell phones to schools.
I tell my kids that they're not getting phones until they're 18. They both think I'm an unreasonable maniac.
That’s a whole other ballgame. It will cause other issues. You’re doomed if you do and if you don’t.
As a 21 year old who got a phone at 11 and didn't socialize for years, I think a dumber phone at 14 and a smart phone at 16 is reasonable. I witnessed first hand how my generation stopped talking in person, how we hid on our phones bc it's better than reality. We have all this bad news from all over the world shoved down our throats. We have been exposed to things no kid should see. People stopped talking and I had to relearn how to socialize out of high school. I worry for my younger siblings, my brother is getting a phone at 13. What will he be exposed to? What if he stops communicating?
I'm a young millennial and I think social media is just among the worst human inventions. Still, there are a very few positives, if you use it only to produce and share and don't "consume". I only use insta to post my occasional art work or few pics when I'm traveling. I login, post and then logout. I don't see anyone's stories or pics. I unfollow anything I feel is even slightly damaging to my mental health. I don't even look at the likes I get on my posts. And i have been doing this for 2 yrs now. My likes have significantly dropped but I don't care, I'm happy now. I almost feel a little bad for my friends who overshare on insta, i know them personally and they are trying so hard to make their life seems happier than it actually it. Why are we compititing to prove we are happy? Happiness is not a limited resource, everyone can just be happy!
"I don't even look at the likes I get on my posts."
One of the saddest things I see in blog posts are edited comments in which commenters profusely thank everyone because they got so many likes. "I've never gotten so many likes before!!! Thank you so much!"
I can't imagine looking for validation in the number of likes I get.
I thought that social media was a bad idea... maybe for all of us. Certainly isn't something I want my kids to do. However, there is a serious lack of safe institutions for kids to gather. I think that's a critical part of development. I loved the camp idea. Anywhere kids can socialize and play on their own is awesome.
Most middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods were extremely safe. People were just brainwashed to be extremely fearful of child abduction by strangers when that is in fact very rare.
Stop having kids. Why bring a child into this corrupt horrible world? It's sick and unethical.
I was born in 1991 and had my first flip phone in 2003 or '04. It does make a difference to get a phone when you're 12 versus 20. Some millennials experienced that to a level. Phones just couldn't do as much as they can now.
1991 also. The first social media we got was pretty awful aswell lol, myspace and early facebook were so much less addictive than they are now. It's when short videos & stories really hit that I noticed the shift. Also watching online dating become the norm was crazy. Social media affects women more, but men got hit super hard by dating apps. I have multiple buddies that are really depressed because they aren't getting matches. They think they're just gonna die alone.
I'm so grateful I got a real childhood before tech exploded.
1996 here. First smartphone was at 17, first phone at 15. I don't understand the idea of giving a child a smartphone at a super young age, ridiculous and careless parenting.
It's so odd to think of young teens and smartphones for me. Having gotten a flip phone just before college and an early smart phone after starting work life.
@@aberwood Social-Media affects females so much more because they are seriously lacking in independence of thought and action, which is why the fashion and cosmetics industries have brainwashed them rendering them stupid
im 91 and not a single person in my middle school had a phone, we all got phones in grade 9 highschool
Everybody is shocked about gen z being "ruined" but nobody talks about their parents generation being the ones who caused this to happen. The kids who "only plays on hes/her phone all day" often have parents who also use phone all day or watch tv 6 hours a day. There are people who give a tablet to a 1 year old and then later wonder how can the kid have some developemental issues with normal human interaction.
Parents did not know that this was such a huge paradigm shift, you can not expect for parents to instantly understand what is happening. Imagine a parent whoms only experience with "the internet" is facebook to understand youtube, insta etc.. But todays parents should know better, the effects of social media are know and how it changes your child. The first generations of parents have almost a "pass" on this, but todays parents should know better.
The boomers were the first generation and possible the worst of all but it does keep getting worse with each generation. If it were graphable, it would fall off the cliff at about 1960 and then keep rolling down the hill. It does, unfortunately, trace back to the way the Greatest Generation acted after WW2. Their lives had not prepared them for good times and high birth rates.
Social media can be good if you use it correctly. I’m an Iranian first generation millennial. I work part time during the week, but I’m also an artist and use my platform to post my artwork online on apps like Instagram. It’s like my portfolio, especially if I get discovered by clients.
We had the same issues, just not as many. I think the water was much healthier when we were growing up. Just my two cents. I did not get my first phone until I was 55 and now I am 60.
I'm am so glad I'm a Gen-Xer. We are a blessed generation. We are young enough to be thoroughly enmeshed in today's technology-based society, and yet (and this is extremely important), we are old enough to remember what life was like before the Internet and social media. In fact, most of us were adults before society became fully saturated with Internet culture. Gen-Xers occupy a very unique position in history. We remember the U.S. and the world before they went insane. We are blessed.
Absolutely. It's insane that we even survived our free range childhoods. We straddled the analog-digital divide pretty well I would say.
@@RogueReplicant Yip. No seatbelts. No helmets. Riding bikes all day wherever the heck we pleased. Our parents would all be in jail today. 😆😅🤣😂
@@mattm597 Yes! I was fortunate to grow up in the San Fernando Valley (northwest of L.A.) which was pretty safe in the 70's and 80's. At 10 y.o. I used to skateboard to the mall in Sherman Oaks with my buddy, our safety gear was football jerseys, jeans and Converse sneakers, lol!
I miss the days before the internet people are so much more interesting back then
Yes!
As a walk around this country of ours, I encounter fewer and fewer young people I can remotely communicate with. It's almost like we're different species or something. Very bizarre.
Great interview
As a teacher, this is all absolutely true. Kids are presenting signs of anxiety and depression much earlier and more severely. They also NEED that unstructured un supervised play time with peers. Many 10 year olds struggle to think for themselves when it comes to school work or playground interactions because they have been conditioned to rely on adult direction. So if they are given an hour of "free time" during the day, the majority will just mindelessly search google for "stuff" or play a repetitive simple online game (Candy Crush etc), very few do something creative by choice, because that involves uncertainty and not being told what to do how and when to do it.
This is Gen Alpha (born 2010-now) so id hate to see what some of to younger ones coming through exposed to all that stuff much earlier as well as having their formative years (first 6-7) defined by covid restrictions, what they will be like.
It was described to me recently as, "there sre huge waves of trauma impacted kids coming to schools soon, so how do we adapt to meet their needs, not just teach them the 3 R's."
DO things on a regular basis WITH your kids AWAY from social media and video games. This is on the PARENTS .
I wish it was that easy, I think you’re partially correct. I believe it’s basically down to the naive utopian ideology of young people crossed with the internet and urbanisation on a global scale.
Unfortunately, some parents are preoccupied with work and constant "doing", as mine were (they were not taught themselves to be conscious, loving parents). They were unable to show the necessary support that would've helped my brother and I to grow as fully confident and independent individuals. At least for me, I have had to go through a lot of shit to get where I am now (moved out, working a decent job, going to university) and I still struggle mentally. I can imagine unconscious & neglectful parenting these days could lead to a lot of unnecessary mental pain for a lot of children if we're not careful.
I agree. Giving the child a cellphone in order to keep them occupied and not bother Mommy or Daddy just does not work. Whatever happened to parents telling their kids to hit the books and do their homework? It seems like none of these kids are able to make the grade in school. And no, cheating by looking up test answers on the cellphone during class does not count.
My parents are constantly working and have no time to do anything and when there is time they use it to sleep or relax.
The title should be "what have we done to Gen Z"
Any kid born near or after 9/11 has lived a completely different world!
Video games are just a medium. They are exactly and distinctly in the same category as books, film, television, etc. So unless you are going to start talking about novels the same way, I think it's time to reconsider how we think about video games.
Spoken like a lobotomized addict.
Makes me think of the saying of strict parents makes rebellious kids. I’ve been sheltered during my teenage years. The moment I hit 18 graduated, got a job, and drove on my own, I naturally became independent, against my moms wishes. It wasn’t like I did it on purpose. My instinct naturally kicked in to go hang out with friends till 12-1am since I didn’t get a chance to be independent as a kid.
I used to live next to a college campus, and the vibe started changing when the late gen y and gen z arrived.
Man, we need more Gen Z people who are emotionally resilient and independent
I might get yelled at for this, but overprotectiveness is probably why kids these days aren’t as emotionally resilient and able to look after themselves more, which leads to a whole load of other problems
I agree, but that's not the kids' fault. It's their parents' and society's fault(s) that they aren't replicating the positive elements of their own youth for their kids.
@@waywardmind Yeah, you’re right, dude.
I am Gen Z, and I gotta say I agree with you. For a sensitive person I’m pretty resilient, but I see a lot of people around me who just give up and break so easily. They just crumple. It’s so sad and I don’t know how you teach someone that in life you just have to keep trying again, trying different, trying with help, until you move forward.
A good summer camp in NY that allows lots of independence is Unirondack. At least when I was a kid.
Growing up in the 90s before smart phones there was still a huge amount of time on social media, AIM/MSN, forums, live journal, xanga, myspace.... Yeah people weren't on it ALL the time, but I definitely remember spending upwards of 8 hours a day on the internet in the late 90s.
I’m genz being born in 2001 and I definitely had a free range childhood.
As someone who grew up in a rural area I would say most Millenials in rural areas & small towns grew up like Boomers & Gen Xers. My childhood and that of my friends and peers were a lot like those who grew up as Boomers and Gen Xers. I was allowed to walk in the woods & on the prairie on my own as a young child, ride my bike on my own, walk down to the river to go fishing and swim unsupervised.
Agreed. I think that the problem is with kids that are raised in cities. Even if you did have access to the internet, you went outside and played with other kids. I think that's still true in the country and it makes kids physically and mentally healthier. If you have kids, get the hell out of the city. Is your job more important than your children?
I think the development of 3G was the turning point. I remember thinking "Wow, you can get internet on your phone!"
Which was followed by - and it's all crap!
I was born in 1987 and I didn’t get a phone until 2005 and it was crap - never used it. I got a smart phone around 2011 🤷🏻♀️ it just wasn’t part of growing up for me, I didn’t even want it. Now I’m addicted 😒
I recall riding the NYC subways and buses while in grade school during the late 70s. (Honestly, I probably had more street smarts back then than I do now.)
Anyway, 7:00 I think how many camps are managed have a lot to do with liability and insurance than it does with helicopter supervision initiatives.
I did not think about that. Always someone getting sued
Also people getting molested
Remember the TV show Green Acres?
Country Livin', fresh air vs.
Times Square, city hustle and bustle!
The Tech cultural changes make me think of the contrast.
A great sleep-away camp in Cali is Skylike. We sent our kids for years. Worth every penny.
Being born in 1995, and coming from a computer programmer background for a father, I was immersed in tech from a young age, but was fascinated more so with results and products and not participating in "no code platforms" like what social media is today.
You weren’t effected by the extremely advanced addictive algorithms that have been developed today.
@@DivinesLegacy Yes, precisely. They are mind altering to the impressionable and those not taught to question from a young age either.
If you step back and see the forest for the trees everything about first world countries is to create addicts in one form or another. Not just one addiction but multiple addictions and then making sure the public does not realize this truth by those supplying the various drugs. It is rare to meet someone not addicted to something but first you must change your definition of addiction. It is all about pleasant stimulation and the state of mind of addicts is increasing in its need for stimulation. The addictions destroy the growth that comes out of effort, keeping the person a prisoner of their addictions. This is the core reason for the dumbing down of people. 54% of adults have a literacy rate below sixth-grade level. A complex society will not function under these conditions.
Where did you find that statistic? I agree with everything you've said.
@@andrewb8235 Years of traveling all over the globe and observing people and being fortunate enough to encounter many wise people along the way showing me the truth. The truth is a strange thing. It is right before our eyes but we do not see it from lacking the words to understand or having the wrong words that keep us from understanding. Finding the truth is throwing away the words (beliefs) that keep you from seeing it and discovering new words that allow you to see it. (Clarity).
It's a combination of drugs and operant conditioning which is the classical method of brain-washing. What's odd is that the people who have been affected most by the conditioning think they've avoided being conditioned but I suppose that's a good working definition of brain-washing.
They give people psych meds; they get side effects; they give you more drugs for the side effects; you get new side effects; they give you more drugs for those; etc. People are so drugged out they can no longer differentiate reality from fantasy. Despite that cycle, or maybe because of it, the rates of depression have been increasing since 2011 and if they quit, they get even more depressed.
The dumbing down keeps people from being able to tell when they're being lied to.
I would love to do research with this guy.
Early gen-x here...
What a different world I grew up in.
At age seven, I would hike through the forests near my home to look for deer - alone! Eight was a milestone year for me; my parents bought me a wristwatch and simply gave me the time to be home by, and I would ride my bicycle for miles on end with no helmet, and also paddle my one-man rubber raft down a local creek. At sixteen, I carried my old .22 rifle through the fields and forests in order to plink away at old cans and such that people left at an impromptu target range about three miles from where we lived. Needless to say, there was no social media at all at this time; only broadcast TV, the local newspaper, and an ancient rotary-dial phone!
I feel that this upbringing is part of the reason why my sister ended up living in France, and I in rural Southern Africa.
Alas, not all is lost, and in recent years, I've had the good fortune to work with some very capable gen-zers, so there's definitely well-adjusted ones out there!
Well the assumptions in the start are off a bit.
1991 baby here
My first cell was 8th grade & MySpace was popping 2 years before Facebook existed. Allllll of us had it. My first smart phone I was 11th grade. Samsung had smart phones out since 2001 & while yes - a lot of us didn’t get our iPhone until 2007 I can easily recall 3 or 4 phones on the internet and connecting to tv…but yes. Gen Z has been straight to the deep end.
Thank God for baseball!!
My son played baseball for years and it gave him confidence and a good work ethic. At 18 he graduated high school, got his first job on his own, and LOOKS PEOPLE IN THE EYE when he speaks to them.
Send your kids off to Camp Tockwogh in Worton, MD!!!!!!
I was a free range roaming child, and I lived just outside of Boston. She didn't get a cell phone until she was 18. I sent her to sleep over summer camp and she was a cheerleader. So every day after school from grade 3 to 12, she was at cheerleading practice.
I do agree social media has been a huge detriment to our mental and emotional health. But I look at my parents generation who grew up very “free range”. Bad things did happen to them. I feel like a lot of Gen X individuals could greatly benefit from some serious therapy , but I don’t feel like a lot of them go. They kind of white-knuckle it through life, but trauma always has a way of spilling out and affecting relationships, mental healthy, substance use…etc.
While I don’t disagree with your sentiment and you have a great point regarding therapy, I do feel the overemphasis of preventing trauma is more deleterious/harmful than teaching people how to respond to traumatic experiences simply because life is traumatic and there’s no way to avoid that. So long as death and sickness exists you will experience trauma in some way or form. There are definitely more than a few instances where the previous generation probably were exposed to certain things earlier than they should have but the response of parents shielding their kids from everything, especially without explanation, in my opinion leads to overly anxious hyper dependent individuals who are afraid to take even low level risks that are apart of being in this world.
Bad things will always happen. There are things out of our control always. How you cope and respond to them after they happen determines who you are and will be and that needs to be emphasized more not just through therapy but parenting.
I feel like the lack of supervision was from a lack of caring. That generation seemed to be lacking in compassion & understanding. I feel like the independence was an unintended benefit. I think the 90’s parents just started caring more, with the DEpendance also being an unintentional consequence.
@@israelblaylock5527lack of supervision is trust
@@israelblaylock5527 Strongly disagree. It’s part of the parental contract that you have to teach your offspring how to be independent. Caring parents will not coddle their children.
While a lot of Gen X did have suffer some trauma in childhood, as I did, I was still able to be independent and functional as an adult. At 18 I was so eager for independence that I went to a university that was 3,000 away from my parents. At age 20 I was able to have a semester abroad in Madrid Spain where I could barely understand what the Spaniards were saying and I still managed just fine and consider it one of the happiest times of my life. I've been independent my entire adult life. My parents told me that after graduation from college I was completely on my own financially and was responsible for being a full fledged adult and providing for myself. Compare that to the mess that most Gen Z are as young adults.
I love the explanation at the start when us early/late 80’s kids are like WTF how can you put us in this cohort haha
Independence with responsibility is 🔑
A more in depth discussion about this would be great 👍
ruclips.net/video/Xi499A4VsN8/видео.html
You could read one of his books.
@@ThomasPowellNZ I can’t read… I have macro degenerative disease… love to listen 👂
Search RUclips for “Big Think”s modern America fragile children.
It depends on where people grew up.
It's not genZ that's the problem, it's their parents who failed them, and let phone and tablets raise their kids. Also, being born in absolute misery, I wanted my kids to have a chance in life better than myself.
It's not just parents - it's the social media companies and Silicon Valley 'visionaries' profiting off the insecurities of children.
You cant really stop the tablets,phones and computers. The kid can will eventually get addicted to them and still its fucked up. This generation is going to suffer A LOT i hope something good happens to delete these screens.
I hate always being right, I saw this B.S. coming from a mile away...our youngest was born in 1998 and i/we were adamant that he have no TV in the bedroom and no smart phone until he was a Jr. in H.S. We also made sure he did his homework immediately upon getting home from school and that he stayed involved in sports (he started at WR on his Varsity football team) and I took him shooting/hunting/camping at a young age just like my Dad did me in the 60's/70's. The boy in question has never been a social media addict and graduated undergrad Engineering College cum laude in 2022 and got his first Engineering job a couple months ago (a recently retired Principal Aerospace/Computer Engineer who spent 36 years with a large American defense contractor.
Great job 👏
My parents let me have unrestricted access to social media, mostly because they hardly even knew what it was, but thankfully I managed to turn out okay. I’m also an engineer ☺️ but I will add that I have shunned social media on my own, because I’ve recognized how ultimately destructive it is and how much it brought me down.
I was raised by 3rd generation engineers. Admit it - you love being right.
Free ranging also limited by so many kids being in day care and after school care. When mine were little, there were no other little ones in the street - they were all in care was😢
Honestly, I think it is impossible to be a career woman and a mother who prioritize her children. It is just maths. Time is not infinite and so either choose one or the other. I chose career. I think I chose wrong. I have stopped believing woman who claim both is achievabøa. They may be right on a few examples but overall, parents should choose kids more, not try both
I've always felt family should be number one. It's hard to balance it all in our modern lifestyles.
In a lot of countries it's not a huge problem.
Choose what works for you. Not everyone wants or needs to have kids
I became a SAHM when my first child was born and relinquished my career. I have been a SAHM for 27 years and my husband and I became empty nesters late last year. I do not regret my choice whatsoever. However, it is my firm belief that to raise healthy, intelligent, resilient, well-adjusted future adults requires not only good, moral and ethical parents but a society that is high in morals and ethics. The expression 'it takes a village to raise a child' is apt. If society (the village) is falling apart (high crime, lack of respect, lawlessness, promiscuity, social media, high divorce rates, immoral behaviour, etc), parents face an uphill battle raising future resilient, productive adults.
I agree. I am a sahm to my 2 yo daughter now and I was so career focused only 5 years ago. I realised that it’s impossible to keep up with your career while giving enough attention to the kids(my mom was trying to make it) But now i am thinking about getting employed to gain some independence i guess ?
Jonathan Haidt is just an amazing scholar.
I was born in 97 but didn't get a smart phone or xbox till i was 17. Lived rural focused on school now ill ballin
One of the best people to listen to about our battle with technology, particularly smart phones, and how to undo our dependency on them. From children to seniors, it affects everyone. I actually thought in 2008 that we might be happier/more fulfilled with the advent of smart phones 😂 😢
You guys are customers. That is your business.
Really interesting why 96 is the cut off date I’ve always felt (two years older than my actual age) I’m 25 ( technically gen z) yet I have such a hard time connecting with my own generation because something is off. I connect more with younger millennials
Same, but I’m ‘97. One of my closest friends is 40 😂 and at my last job, I got along best with the 37 and 46 year olds I worked with, not the other 25-29 year olds.
So glad at 13, I was riding my bike outside, collecting comic books and sports cards, playing Sega/Nintendo, and playing sports with the neighborhood kids. I don't even see kids riding bikes anymore. It's sad.
I have been quite quiting at my job for years and I am 52
23 year old here, at best if the right people from my group get “in” we could embody a lot of common sense assuming we used the internet right since day 1 as we’d have learned a lot. As far as the damages? I noticed off the rip starting 8th or 9th grade how annoying and childish the gram and fb made us and how it made us more cliqueish. We are also pretty dependent and want convenience above all else. Some of us did not have like an idea of the difference between real life and Twitter. When it came to how my parents raised me, they weren’t born here (I was) so basically just timid and unsure of us outside there reach but we made it work. Honestly our 2nd apartment was a pretty bad neighborhood so it was best we didn’t wander all that much there specifically 💀 ig it’s also cool they never bought me not one game console or PSP’s. But ya man the best of my age group are the “black sheeps”. The ones who want to be themselves fr and not part of the group think.
Love Haidt. He did a great Joe Rogan as well
Theres also the aspect of becoming a social outcast amongst your peers when your the only person without a cellphone, not smartphone a cell phone. I didnt even have a fucking house key until i was 15
I think something similar has happened with anyone who has been considered disenfranchised by society and has consequently spent most of their time alone and has used social media as a means of compensating for lack of human contact. I know as a person with disabilities from birth whose connection and engagement with the world has been limited, I have used social media a lot in an effort to connect and relate over the years. But recently, I made the choice to distance myself, and I’m now recovering from the consequences.
My kids are 13 and 10 and I get this.
Weird mic setup tim 🤔
I was born in '96, and I can definitely attest to this being accurate. I got my Facebook account at around 12, back in 2008-2009. Initially, I had to keep it hidden from my parents, but after a year or two, they became more open and allowed me to use it.
Covid didn’t hurt Gen Z. But the lockdowns most certainly did.
a lot of gen z and gen alphas lost family members because of covid.
@@ghostfarts_ All my grandparents were dead by the time I was born. My older brother lived through all of them dying. People used to have half their kids die young. This used to be a normal part of life.
I grew up in the 90s and me and my neighborhoods friends were free range. That claim simply is not true. Most kids had a lot of freedom in the 90s.
Actually I recall when in 2008-2009 I entered uni and every students were asking me whether I am in social media. I was a bit surprised, like wth is that, but then I also started it, and it actually brought no friends eventually. I think internet is best for education and info search, but interaction here is toxic
My kids were the last to get phones in their classes ( and it wasn’t economics ) neither had a phone till hight school and no data till grade 12. Both are now adults and are barely on social media . And yes we sent the kids to Summer camp best money we ever spent . That and back packing canoeing tripping
Totally free range in the sixties and my daughter too in the 80s. We were lucky.
Got my first phone age 16 but was hardly on social media and never ever posted on it. Now age 27 I only watch news and video on Facebook. I've never enjoyed being on Snapchat or Instagram or twitter I found those sites boring. Facebook kept my eyes active but I grew up playing outdoors and being free outdoors but now as a parent nowhere is safe. My daughter has been watching RUclips kids since she was a toddler and that's the only app I allow her use
Best camp on earth: Keewaydin in Salisbury, VT
"I live in New York"
"I wish we'd found a good summer camp"
These statements are mutually exclusive, apparently.
I think you need to listen to what he says again. He made very clear that it is difficult to find a summer camp that does not coddle the children. He wants a summer camp where they are not crazily overprotective. It had nothing to do with his geography.
I went to summer camp at Bear Mountain State Park, just up the river on the Rockland side. I wonder if it is still there
I'm 30 so a little bit out of this age and played games my whole life, but I'd push back on the comment that games cannot be creative. I understand they can be addictive, problems playing too much etc., But in a competitive environment oftentimes a creative play can help win a game of Fortnite or whatever. There are also very creative games out there outside of multiplayer shooters.
Summer camp movies were my favorite growing up... no wonder that sub-genre is long gone :(
Glad I was born as a millenial. I experienced the traditional thinking of older generation and modern liberalism. It’s nice that I can discern what works for me and what is not. I want some of the conservative values of the old and combine it with the modern values we have.
Problem with the new generation is they spend a lot of time figuring out gender problems which won’t really feed them when their angry. They police every person in social media, their beliefs and their way of living. The solution to these problems is just respect and tolerance.
This is the generation that was taught that everybody wins, you get a trophy just for showing up, and competition is bad. We don't keep score, we just play for fun. These are the kids going to college now.
Hey losers are people too. I suck at every game I play, but I’m an engineer and I make good money.
I would love to know what jung would say about the current situation🦍⌚🔑
He would say, we're f*cked... JK, but I imagine Jordan Peterson addresses the issue pretty well.
"managers are finding them hard to work with..." Ah ha.
@Dildo Insaney They are so disruptive and t controlling of the people around them it's insane.
Only when they grace you with their presence by showing up for work...
My son Is a gen zer, smart as hell, but with no confidence but working on that.
I'm from 1998 and it's spot on basically. In my opinion it started with the iPod touch, not considered to be a 'phone' by adults but it was essentially a smartphone given out to kids from 2007...
Social media addiction is almost universal for women my age or younger.
I don't think overprotection is necessarily the reason for the downfall of Gen Z, I do agree though that social media is harmful and detrimental at young ages, well at all ages actually
Overprotective, coddling, helicopter parents are absolutely the reason Gen Z is so messed up. They were never allowed to do anything on their own as children and thus have very poor social skills and coping skills. Then add in toxic social media and spending all the time on phones and you have young adults who are severely stunted.
It definitely played a big part
You're right. There's a hell of a lot more going wrong than just social media.
I was born in ‘92, parents in the US military, US military base housing was free range open areas with so much to do and independence. I’d ride my bike and go to the movies alone before the age of 10. There were major issues don’t get me wrong but at least the structure of our neighborhoods were walkable
Ooooooof. I was born in 1997. My first “social media” was club penguin and neo pets, where I first talked to strangers without any parental supervision. I had a Facebook account by the time I was 11. When I was 12 I started cutting, which I mostly did from ages 12-17, and then much much less thereafter and now I basically don’t.
However, I have deleted all social media apps from my phone, I don’t use my Facebook account, and this RUclips is my only thing now.
I think social media is a huge problem. I wish my friends would free themselves from it, and I think people my age and younger aren’t going to be able to pull themselves away before it’s too late.
The universe is not safe, that is absolutely why you are here, to overcome any adversity.Misery, suffering and hell are 1000% an interpretation of what is happening to each of us, we control how we react, the problem with being modern is that all stoic coping mechanism has been down regulated into this illusion of safety, even religion is that same trap. Your ancestors made babies cry thru non emotional pain for the sake of building resilience. I was fortunate to have grown up playing barefoot in the third world in the sixties. Modern parents do more harm shielding children and catering to their ravenous needs!
If it wasn’t for social media I wouldn’t have a single friend or any income. Perhaps parents should actually parent. They said the same thing about rock and roll and video games. 😂
And they were right...
In Japan, apparently kids 7-9 years old rode the subway alone…because “the community” will help them get where they need and protect them
Im a late gen xer, born in 81. Last generation to roam outside. I got my first cell phone as a high school graduation present.
I was also born in 1981. (I think we're technically Xennials).
Here's a partial list of activities I engaged in regularly throughout my adolescence (junior high onwards):
Reading
Journaling
Soccer
Skateboarding
Playing music in bands
Drawing
Listening to live & recorded music *with friends*
Kibitzing with friends at cafes
Browsing used book stores
Sex with my long-term girlfriend
Long, meandering drives with friends
Swimming
Hiking
Cooking
Chess
Roaming the city on foot
While visiting the city in which I grew up, I sometimes drive past public places where teenagers used to congregate outside, talking, passing around dog-eared books, blasting music, dyeing each other's hair. These places are now vacant. The kids are online jerking off, performing for the camera, or doom scrolling Instagram.
Gen Z and younger Millennials are aliens to me. I've glimpsed their culture on social media. It's truly sick, especially the preoccupation with porn and onlyfans, which is pervasive on Twitter and Instagram, and warping their sexual interests (race play, financial domination, deliberate cultivation of porn addiction, fetishizing sexlessness and permanent virginity, the normalization of sex work as "feminist empowerment"). They are also utterly conformist and illiterate. My friends in academia tell me that they plagiarize papers using ChatGPT.
Their parents are partly to blame, but in the end we're responsible for ourselves. I didn't just uncritically accept all aspects of mainstream culture when I was young. I truly don't understand this generation and I'd be lying if I said I don't have contempt for them. They seem to have no discipline, character, or curiosity. To them, TikTok is the height of creativity.
Some *are* going their own way though. There's a great New York Times article, titled "Luddite Teens Don't Want Your Likes" about teenagers in Brooklyn who have abandoned smart phones and social media and meet routinely in Prospect Park in Brooklyn to read and paint together.
Gen Z, abandon your smart phones and social media, reject porn, and engage in Gen X cultural activities. This is the path to happiness. You can do it. It's not over.
My generation doesn't care bro.
This Wonderful. Thank you.
I thought Millennials and Generation Z were the Children of the Corn.
Now I see they are
It's how they were raised that is the harmful thing. I'm Gen X. If they had been raised like us they wouldn't be such a mess.
@@CarShopping101
You're absolutely correct 💯
Parenting styles actually changed in the mid 80s when many parents decided to become FRIENDS instead of PARENTS.
Now we have this shit in the United States of America