Do you mean Kansas and Floyd were not progressive in comparison to what was going on at the time or retrospectively speaking? Some bands have perhaps 1 or 2 albums out of their whole catalog that could be considered progressive but then become too mainstream. Who exactly would you consider "progressive rock" Is it releasing an album that doesn't sound a thing like what is transpiring at the time?
What would you call Shine on You Crazy Diamond pts 1-9 if not prog? Animals a concept album , with a track like dogs (20 minutes with ambient keyboard section) is that not prog?
@@classicalbum My definition of Prog is different from your definition, I don't think "Prog" has ever been officially defined. For me, Prog has to have unusual time signatures but is not jazz, space music or classical. It also has to be very hard to play.
I think lots of people would appreciate an agreed upon definition of "Prog". I also think it would be hard to come up with a definition that everyone would be totally happy with.
As usual I completely agree with your entire commentary regarding the band Kansas!! The only difference being that the live "Two for the Show" album is, imho, absolutely phenomenal and I've played that album far more than the original studio albums over time.
I was lucky enough to see Kansas perform live with Steve Walsh on the PONR Tour, and they were spectacular in every way. It remains one of my top 5 concert experiences to date.
As a longtime Kansas fan, I agree that the first 5 are essentials; for many who really like Kansas's initial albums, I would point out MONOLTH and AUDIO-VISIONS. There is still a lot to love on the latter 2. I really like the most recent albums as well. Imo, the high point between AUDIO-VISIONS and THE PRELUDE IMPLICIT is FREAKS OF NATURE. I agree with previous posts that POWER and SOMEWHERE TO ELSEWHERE are contenders.
Great video. I agree about the first five albums, but would extend that to say the first seven studio albums. While Monolith and Audiovisions are a slight step down from the first five, they are still excellent and essential albums to own in my opinion. Been a fan since ‘75 and saw them twice in the ‘70s. Such a great band.
I wholeheartedly endorse your assessment. I too entered the Kansas realm at the 'Dust in the wind' release and still remember where/when I first heard 'Wayward Son'. Frankly it blew me away. I backtracked from there. I rate these chaps very near the top of the Prog tree for me. They employed a perfect blend of progressive complexity and more accessible mainstream rock without ever getting self indulgent as SO MANY of the big names in Prog pantheon were frequently inclined. The sound of Walsh's superb voice, Livgren's songwriting and Steinhardt's violin are very hard to beat. I love 'em!
Excellent summary of this band, which I agree never got bogged down or lost in cliche prog wormholes. They seemed more grounded in Americana roots music than classic prog, but the prog elements are certainly there. Saw them live during one of their reunion tours in the mid-90s, very small, intimate club setting. Fantastic show.
Some Kansas thoughts: "Power" from 1986 is bascially a decent AOR record with some killer guitar from Steve Morse (some tracks with him in focus really comes recommended). Not a favorite album but something I return to now and again. "Monolith" and "Audio-Visions" are really good. Not sure why they get so lost in the shuffle and something many doesn't care about. I play them as often as the classics! Great band!
My introduction to Kansas was hearing Closet Chronicles on the John Peel show (yes he did indeed play it, at least once anyway). They were also featured in a Sounds article where Geoff Barton declared 'Pomp rock lives- run for the hills' and were considered to be one of the leading 'Pomp Rock' bands alongside Styx. Pomp being an amalgamation of prog and hard rock. When Monolith was released it got a bad review in Sounds so I never bought it but did instead get their debut which to me remains my favourite, and then I picked up their live album which was a great best of so far, as such I didnt get any other albums until after Steve Morse joined and by then they were more of a melodic rock band with prog flourishes here and there. Really enjoyed their In the Spirit of Things although that didnt do as well as they had hoped. Then with an increase in disposable income during the 90's I got hold of the rest of their catalogue, after getting their long boxed anthology - and have to say that I really like Monolith, maybe not as prog as what came befre but definitely Pomptastic, and being a fan of AOR generally I found Vinyl Confessions to be rather a nce album too - the follow up Drastic Measures is to em their nadir though..Somehwere to Elsewhere is ok, but I dont think they got back to anything almost equalling their early days until the last two. Are Kansas a prog band? - as you say certainly on the first five albums at least.
In my view Kansas are a melodic rock band with a mix of styles, AOR, some Prog elements, and a heavy leaning in the early days to Pomp rock. I have never thought of them as being a Prog band, like Yes, Genesis or ELP. I think every period has its magic, but would agree that after Kerry and Steve left a fair bit of the magic went with them. Kerry was on a spiritual journey from the earliest albums, exploring eastern mysticism, occultism, until he ended up finding himself fulfilled by Christianity. Kansas has at its core his story of finding salvation, and many of the lyrics he wrote reflect that, for me that lifts Kansas way above the more mundane bands out there, singing about first loves and parties. I love the early albums with Point of Know Return being a strong favourite, along with Left Overture and Song for America. Of the mid period, more AOR, Audio Visions and Monolith are great albums. Once Walsh left, Kansas became for all intents and purposes a Christian melodic rock band, a period of equal value but different. I like the albums of this period and what followed after Livgren left, his band AD produced some lovely music, as did Protokaw. I think the strongest album of the next phase is In The Spirit of Things which has amazing songs that show Steve Walsh vocals, and fabulous diction to great effect. What then followed, for me, isn’t as good. Its missing the Livgren Walsh magic, and I hate saying this, but feels more like a tribute band. Livgrens Seeds of Change album is amazing, in particular the two songs Ronnie James Dio (another amazing rock vocalist) sings on.
Well, early Yes and Genesis were considered Prog by us teenagers. Yes changed to a more generic rock band in their later years so did Genesis. when Peter Gabriel left. Genesis really got pedestrian when Hackett left.
Kansas had song parts that were just as complex as any of those UK prog bands so yes, I'd say they were definitely prog. Prog isn't just a British genre, it can be played anywhere... 🌍
"Somewhere To Elsewhere" is actually quite good. One of my favorite of the post "Audio Visions" albums. Highlight for me is "Distant Vision" sung by Steve Walsh.
They are the very essence of prog at its best. Technical virtuosity, elaborate episodic arrangements, with a nod to classical sensibilities. And they had great tunes. The musicianship served the composition as opposed to so many modern prog bands that are all a bunch of chops within lousy songs. Frankly, although they made some good albums I only really like Leftoverature. But it's an absolutely perfect album.
I like it too - a lot - but I feel it's also maybe a tad overrated compared to some that came before it. Overall though, for me they peaked with PoKR that album sounds so different from everything else they did back then or indeed afterwards, almost as if it was recorded on another planet or something...
I agree. The only person in King Crimson from beginning to end was Robert Fripp. Every other band member changed. There was the Fripp/Sinfield, Fripp/Wetton, Fripp/Belew, and a few other eras of King Crimson, but those were the main eras. With each change of personnel in the band, there was a different kind of music presented, because different people were writing the songs. Frankly, when Belew left, I lost interest entirely.
I attended my first Kansas concert in 1980 (San Francisco, Cow Palace), and my most recent one just last week (Las Vegas, Smith Center). The whole idea that they aren't a prog band is absolutely baffling to me. They certainly had a period in the mid-to-late '80s through the '90s when they weren't doing much prog. But all of the albums from their classic period, as well as their two most recent studio efforts (both of which are excellent, by the way) are as prog as you'd want. And yes, "Icarus: Borne on Wings of Steel" is my favorite Kansas song, too.
December of 80? I was there as well for my first Kansas show. At the time they were my favorite band. We met Steve after the GTR concert at The Warfield, when he told us they were trying to re-form the band, but needed Kerry's permission.
Kansas isn't prog?! ROFLMAO, listen to the following and tell me they're not: Journey From Mariabronn Belexes Apercu/Death Of Mother Nature Suite Song For America Lamplight Symphony The Devil Game Imcommudro-Hymn To The Atman Icarus: Borne On Wings Of Steel All The World Child Of Innocence Mysteries and Mayhem/The Pinnacle The Wall Miracles Out Of Nowhere Opus Insert Cheyenne Anthem Magnum Opus The entire Point Of Know Return album(save Dust in the Wind, and even DITW could be prog) On The Other Side Angels Have Fallen A Glimpse Of Home Away From You Curtain Of iron No One Together Fair Exchange Diamonds and Pearls Crossfire Icarus II Myriad Distant Vision Even Carry On Wayward Son could be called prog...and the two albums after Steve Walsh's retirement are full of prog Just because it's catchy doesn't mean it isn't prog...and there were " conventional rock songs " on their albums because the record company wanted them to try to get a ' hit single ", as was the norm in the American music industry. The American music industry in the 1970s didn't have patience for prog, unlike Britain/Europe. As for " Somewhere To Elsewhere ", it is this longtime(1975) Kansas fan's 3rd favorite(after Song For America and Monolith), the band firing on all cylinders musically on it, lyrically, reflective of Kerry Livgren's Christian worldview
I heard Hopelessly Human on Tommy Vance's Rock On Saturday show on Radio 1 about 100 years ago and that was it for me! I got Point Of Know Return out the record library and it blew me away! They did have a golden period but what a period it was!!! And Steve Walsh singing on Narnia by Steve Hackett is exceptional. It's sad they never really played in the UK as such as I would have travelled to see them. Glad to see you doing a review of this great band!
When I was traveling in the US in 1981, Kansas were all over FM radio. They were the unofficial soundtrack for my trip. I agree with all the choices here. Kansas put a commercial sheen on their progressive ambitions and this paid off handsomely for them. The first five albums are a must have for fans of music of this period. Picked up a near mint vinyl copy of their double live album 'Two for the show' for £3 at a charity shop earlier this year.
Yes they are (American/Midwestern) prog. Certainly their first three LPs are. The fourth (Leftoverture) is mostly prog, but had the misfortune of producing 2-3 commercial hits. The fifth (Point of Know Return) continued to gravitate more towards mainstream pop/rock, and then it was over. The internal creative differences within the band did them in. I'm very happy for them that they did see some commercial success after years or hard work. It can be hard to get a record contract or to even eat otherwise. Great band.
Great video as always. Somewhere to Elsewhere is definitely worth listening to. My personal rankings (and favorite song from each album): 1. Leftoverture (Magnum Opus) 2. Somewhere to Elsewhere (Distant Vision) 3. The Prelude Implicit (With this Heart) 4. Kansas (Apercu) 5. Point of Know Return (Hopelessly Human) 6. The Absence of Presence (The Song the River Sang) 7. In the Spirit of Things (Inside of Me) 8. Masque (All the World) 9. Monolith (On the Other Side) 10. Song For America (Song For America) 11. Vinyl Confessions (Crossfire) 12. Audio Visions (No One Together) 13. Freaks of Nature (final 2:24 of Peaceful and Warm) 14. Power (Musicatto) 15. Drastic Measures (Everybody’s My Friend)
Pretty sure the only reason anyone denies that Kansas is prog is anti-American bias. By any objective measure, they are as prog as any band. Can you point to stuff they did in the 80's that isn't? Sure. But so can you for Yes and Genesis, etc. I do think you will like Somewhere to Elsewhere, especially as it contains a sequel to your favorite Kansas track. Another later album worth checking out is Freaks of Nature.
Back in '76 I got into Kansas through both Song for America and Leftoverture and they're the first band I ever saw in concert ( '80 ). Magnum Opus is just tremendous. But I'll always remain at a cross roads as to which of those 2 masterpiece albums I prefer the most. Overall, Kansas was obviously one of the most unique prog bands ever.
Point of Know Return is as good as Leftoverture, but much poorly produced. The quality obtained on Leftoverture is fantastic, sonically speaking. PoKR desearves a remixed/remastered edition IMO, able to show the power of the band in its whole glory.
@@glauciodon.campelo8967 To my ears it's really the other way around, the production on Leftoverture I find sort of 'cramped' where it's more opened up and clear on the otherworldly PoKR, that one in my opinion is their masterpiece. But hey, it's the same with Gentle Giant fans can't agree which album is their best same with Kansas and that's fine.
Kansas is without a doubt Prog.. iand so much more.. lonely Street..heavy blues...mixed with fantastic melody..in fact they're the best prog band America has ever had... period...
Yes, they are often prog. Especially in the first 5 albums. I agree that those first five are the most vital of their discography. The live album, Two For the Show is every bit as vital. In my opinion, one of the ten best live albums of the 70's. The two disc reissue is a must for anyone who loves 70's prog. Walsh is more raw, his voice slightly worn by the strain of constant touring. It's even better for it. Soulful and wide ranging. I would put Audio Visions above Monolith. I think Monolith is in desperate need of a remastering. It sounds thin. There is some good stuff on it. I have tried to like it more over the years. It ain't bad. I saw them twice in the 90's. The 1st show blew me away. One of the best sets I have ever seen. Incredible. The 2nd was fine, though not quite as good. I think the new band with Ronnie Platt is excellent. RIP Robbie. Their whole discography is worth checking out. I enjoyed this clip. Thanks!
I would highly recommend Somewhere to elsewhere. Like Leftoverture all of the songs were written by Livgren. It is my fourth favorite Kansas album behind Leftoverture, Point and Song for America.
I know you only picked a few from the post-70's era, but 1980's Audio Visions I believe was the last to have the original/classic line-up. Do you think it was a slight improvement over Monolith? The cover is pretty awful, though. Well, the back cover especially.
I heard no mention of their album, "Power"? I was in 3rd grade when I bought the cassette at a gas station. It isn't that bad, either. The song, "Secret Service" is one of my faves to this day and sounds downright evil, like you are about to fall into hell.
Nice one. Couldn't agree more, particularly in relation to 'the God years'. I sometimes get the impression that these musicians who 'find God' (sic) think that their wholesome songs are more profound than they actually are. Preachy and unrelatable, more like. I do think that 'Absence of Presence' is a very playable album, although a long way off from the Kansas of 'Left Overture' and 'Point of Know Return'.
I’m a little older than you Berry. Leftoverture was one of my first LPs. I also wore the grooves out of point of no return. in college I went back and listen to the earlier stuff and loved it. I saw them live in 1981 with the Moody Blues at the old Boston Garden. Your assessment of this band is spot on. they’re definitely Prog in those classic years.
When I think of Kansas I also think of Boston and Styx. I've always found something slightly cheesy about these bands. Maybe not quite REO Speedwagon cheesy but nowhere near as accomplished as UK Prog. But Kansas was the best of the US Prog bands. And they did have a few very good songs that weren't cheesy.
Monolith was the first one I got when it was released, I love it but the preceding albums are stronger for sure. Audiovisions is mostly good too and it's worth checking out Power and In The Spirit of Things from the 80's that feature Steve Morse. By the way yes, Somewhere To Elsewhere is well worth listening to, a return of the more classic 70's sound with Livgren, Hope & Steinhardt back on board.
Kudos Kind Sir for another persistent investigation among several earlier and recent. And you have Most certainly Kansas are Prog and the best among US prog. They were my favorite in 1979 but then I internalized Tull. But since then always among my top 5. Most Kansas songs are superb in music and lyrics. And the most outstanding is Journey From Meriabronn.
Not a band that never really registered with me until The absence of presence which a friend recommended to me. I had heard the big two (Wayward Son and Dust in the Wind) but never thought of following up any interest until after hearing the absence of presence when I purchased the best of Kansas. Not a band that I will be looking to get the full discography but if playing in UK locally may well think about catching them live.
Good, pithy summary of the Kansas canon. As a long time fan, I agree with nearly all of it. My favourite song is probably The Pinnacle, although The Wall is very moving as well. Also Miracles Out of Nowhere is a glorious track. For me what made them such a powerful band during their glory years is that between six members they could deploy two guitarists, two keyboard players and two singers, with the added gravy of violin. That allowed them to create incredibly intricate melodic and harmonic passages while still keeping a ballsy guitar-based rock sound.
Also to add that the Steve Morse years that followed the God years had some highlights even though the writing was very different. And Somewhere to Elsewhere is pretty good.
At the moment, my favourite Kansas song is The Pinnacle. Now that's got to be a prog track for sure! The experimentation with all sorts of sounds... there is one very short flourish of keys that, upon my first listen, sounded rather creepy....it still does.
My fav band ever. I saw them in Shepherd’s Bush. See them live. They are incredible . Point of know return my fav album. Check out somewhere to elsewhere album.
That classic lineup was LOADED with talent as lyricists, composers and musicians. I agree with your opinions on album order EXCEPT for the dis on Two for the Show. I believe that double live album was an awesome showcase of their songs and talent in a live setting.
First concert I ever saw was in 1978. Kansas Point of No Return tour. Thin Lizzy was the opening act. I agree the first 5 albums are the best. I too like the last two and you asked about Somewhere to Elsewhere. I really like this album a lot and would recommend you give it a good listen
I've enjoyed your vids for some time, and have agreed with your assessments, in general, probably 90% of the time. Few, and minor, have been my quibbles. On this one, while I agree with your album rating, I do, very respectfully, disagree with citing Kansas as Prog. Neo Prog, yes, using prog motifs, but, I never heard anything groundbreaking with them, and, for me, that's the greater litmus test. Prog, meaning progressive, should have some element of surprise, or twist, or groundbreaking element. Looking over the horizon, rather than trading in on what has been done before, mostly by the esteemed bands you mention in the vid. Kansas spoke Prog, yes, but, they didn't invent the language. Does that make better sense of my point? Cheers, amigo.
I agree. The first five albums are excellent, but I also like monolith as well. They definitely elements of Prog. But I wouldn’t put them with ELP Genesis, and the like that . Very good Band Though
Amazing band. ..absolutely adore them. Definitely prog imo. Complex melodies as well as stellar musicianship Strayed for sure but what prog act hasn't?
I read a lot of the British sneering at Kansas as a prog band. I’ve noticed the English prog fans are slightly guarded of their greatest musical export, which this Texan understands. Zappa once said, “We invented the wheel and rolled it over to England. They reinvented the the wheel and rolled back to us. England gave us The Beatles. We had surf music.” Thank you England!
Excellent subject. The precious and difficult details Kansas added to every song is very much a Prog Rock staple. As far as later work, some Prog Groups fizzled out like Kansas. Big Generator by Yes is obnoxiously pop. John (King Crimson) Whetton's Asia albums was pop music contrived to be hitmakers, which they were.
Magnum Opus, Apercu,. Journey to Mariabron, Song for America, Lamplight Symphony, Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman, no other band could even cover that, not even Yes or Genesis, because of the precision. Check out their song "Spider" on their live Two for the Show album, after the Manager and Creator of the Band Phil Ehart's drum solo, and how the band comes in, very difficult music execution. Also the Voyage of 8 18, not written by Livgren, a recently release is also very good prog. No other band could come close.
I'm a Christian, and 1) I took no offense, 2) agree that the "God phase" was a little strained. I'm glad to see an appreciation of Kansas and one of the best voices in rock. Kansas was my starter drug for prog. (And now I love bands like Shamblemaths. :))
Definitely prog and well worth the effort to explore beyond their greatest hits and multi-platinum selling albums. Just because their music is consistently listenable doesn't mean they're not prog.
My favorite Kansas album is "Masque", which to me would be a perfect album if it didn't include "It Takes A Woman's Love (To Make A Man)". Followed by Leftoverture, Point Of Know Return, Monolith, Song or America, the debut then Audio-Visions.
I think you, pretty much, nailed it. 1st 5 albums are prog, after that the "God phase" and subsequent Walsh albums are not, then a return to prog on the last 3 "Somewhere to Elsewhere", "Prelude Implicit" and "Absence of Presence". You did make one error. Rich Williams says "Drastic Measures" the follow-up to "Vinyl Confessions", is Kansas' worst record. And he is correct
Lately I've been listening to Song For America, and the excellent 30th Anniversary edition of Two For The Show. I'm really enjoying the second disc. But I'm off the bus after 1978.
While they would do more arena rock, those early albums were definitely prog. I think their prog credentials get knocked because of the later years and they were more accessible and had hit songs. Those early albums are outstanding.
New Kansas is very good, seems that like Styx they have aged well and made some good choices and can recreate the older material well. It doesn’t hurt that they have an ex Yes keyboard player whom Yes should have kept imo.
“Omnipresent Yoko Ono” Hilarious!! , I am a Christian no offense taken. I saw them at an outdoor concert in Michigan when Leftoverture came out, good concert except their violinist was sick and couldn’t perform. Obviously he is a key element of their sound.
But let me tell you, I LOVE Vinyl Confessions. I think it is wrong to compare them to Yes, ELP, Crimson, etc. no way but this is a very fine great band, you have to admit mate.
I consider - for better or worse - that the classic era runs from their debut up to Audio-Visions in 1980. After that, Steve Walsh took off because he wasn't happy with the religious overtones of the new songs being written. Vinyl Confessions saw John Elefante join and poor Robbie Steinhardt slowly get phased out on violin. Drastic Measures was the end of the violin Kansas for over a decade and may be their worst album. The pop years after Walsh came back are somewhat enjoyable if you can appreciate the American AOR/pop rock sound. Power in 1986 was a bit heavier with Steve Morse being a welcome addition. In The Spirit Of Things from 1988 was, in my opinion, a pretty great record, but the label dropped the band and the album fell into obscurity. Freaks of Nature in 1995 was a heavier effort, maybe a bit more bluesy than normal, but at least violin worked its way back into the sound. With this and the following album, Walsh's voice was really starting to crack, and while the 2000 reunion album has some great songs, it's let down by Walsh and his harsher tone. The newest incarnation of the band is trying to harken back to the glory days, and while I really enjoy the 2 latest albums for what they are, they feel thin to me. There's just something missing that I can't quite put my finger on... ... actually, I can. It's missing Walsh, Steinhardt, Hope, and Livgren!!!
Many bands do not love genre labels. I suspect Kansas is one. Clearly whether a great band like Kansas is progressive or not depends on who you ask and which song. Material such as "Magnum Opus," "Closet Chronicles" or material from the first few albums, which some consider progressive, has very little in common with a song like the Drastic Measures album's track "Everybody's My Friend," which I'd find hard to believe anyone would consider prog. As for your thinking of "God" as an "omnipresent Yoko Ono," I think there is no way a talented peace loving artist like Yoko Ono should be compared to an entity that chooses to not stop mass murderers, or blamed for the Beatles' breakup. If John Lennon could hear and read the Yoko Ono bashers' words, I believe he would despise every one of them. Have a nice day, Classic Album Review.
Despite hearing Kansas on classic rock radio throughout my youth in the Midwest I never really got into the band. Not sure why. Maybe they were too normal for me.
Strange concept is 'Prog' A tad grandiloquent but possibly appropriate for those more...algebraic tunesters.Crimson,GG etc.If it encapsulates violent time changes and somewhat portentuous musings l guess if the cap fits etc ?. Yes were obviously in that sphere of reference but the handle seems..inelegant and inadequate to describe this particular groups ouvre and indeed Genesis's sheer spiritual and emotional depths of ambition,to say nothing of their sheer musicality (Going for the one being my personal one-choice-only desert island disc/cd).... and stage presence. I guess 'Prog' provides a suitable frame of reference and cosmic/dram rock invites a certain jocundity to a degree but l'm not getting 'Prog' with Kansas,just an interesting US Tull equivalent and l don't really see Tull as particularly Prog ,more Folkadelic-Rock but almost a different category in themselves. Idle musings lol.
There are a lot of Kansas fans I knew who disliked 'Christian-era' Kansas not because of aesthetic reasons, but ideological. It's unfortunate that anti-Christian worldviews would get in the way of understanding and enjoying what is actually a work of art--regardless of the artist's persuasion (enjoyed "Audio-visions" and "Vinyl Confessions" as much as "Leftoverture" and "Point of Know Return" admittedly). By way of illustrating, most Christians hated black metal for its in-your-face satanism missing out on a beauty (albeit dark) that the genre can produce (eg. Burzum's "Filosofem"), inasmuch as most BM purists abhor Christian BM (Unblack Metal) or Extol ignoring the brilliance that these too can produce.
Hell yes they're prog. American prog. Definitely different from the awesome UK prog bands but you hear some inspirations. Also the missing RRHOF inductee that pisses me off most. 1. Song For America 2. Leftoveture 3. Debut 4. Point of Know Return 5. Masque 6. Monolith The rest are hit and miss for me.
Sisterly - Kansas not minor depression as UK prog bands, that's because some not recognize them as prog! Yes - they are positive major mood - and still prog
My definition of prog is the resistance of conformity. For example, in a typical song where one might expect a "G Chord", the prog band says "no, that's expected, let change keys here". It can work well to make songs more interesting, however when it is done gratuitously, it can become an overkilling blob without any point to it other than to say, "look at us we're different". Whatever one decides to do in a song should support the song and lyrics, which Tony Banks does SO well whereas others fall prey to endless soloing and large detached interludes with no relation to the song. A great example is Jordan Rudess. A fine technical player, but I don't think he is able to mentally or physically play even a Beatles song without 32nd note arpeggios thrown in.
If you have to ask - then the answer is probably no. Not prog but a rock band that employs prog or even many prog elements. Does anyone ask if Genesis/Yes/ELP/King Crimson/VdGG/Camel/Gentle Giant are prog ? Of course not.
@@classicalbum No, I adore first 4 Kansas albums, and saw them on the Masque and Leftoverture tours.. (First album is my personal favorite even though I know Leftoverture is their strongest album.) But I don't think prog is just noodling, I don't think KC crawled up their own aspic, I love live albums, and I don't think the Kansas live album was a money grab! (We fans were begging for it.) Still, I really do enjoy your channel and rarely never miss an episode.
Kansas were one of those bands that if they had just loosened up a bit and turned the production down could almost have been a heavyish melodic rock band .A bit like Journey might have done.Alas a mix of popish / prog/ (a bit boring) kind of end result.
Deciding whether a particular band is "prog" is a pointless endeavor, like deciding whether your socks are stylish. Or more like arguing whether Band X was the greatest rock group that ever lived... This person over here will say, "Yes! Of course! Definitely!" and that person over there will say, "No way! You're insane! Band Y was the greatest! You are wrong forever and ever!" And back and forth it shall go, to no useful end, a fact which should be obvious from the start. "Rock" music, probably the broadest and most diverse of all musical genres, contains a few dozen sub-genres, one of which is "prog", possibly the most vague and ill-defined of them all. It is hard to conceive of a less productive or less interesting thing to debate. For what it's worth, by the time Kansas got popular, many dyed-in-the-wool fans of sixties/seventies stuff they now call "classic rock", thought of them at the time as "corporate rock", the kind of slick, glossy, polished rock that lacked the rough-edged grittiness that defined the earlier stuff, music that wanted to produce radio hits, but didn't want to end up in the "pop" album racks... And this landed them in the same pigeon hole as Styx or Boston... all of whom made some fine music of course... at a time when the glory days of rock were coming to an end, when groups like the Cars were the last dying gasp of breath before descending into the seeming eternity of the Disco era... If one must categorize their rock music to enjoy it, why not just put on The Yes Album or Thick As a Brick, then you can satisfy yourself that you have delved into the hazy realm of "prog rock" and tell all your friends about it on youTube or whatever it takes to resolve your obsession with whether such-and-such band is "prog".
Difference between Kansas and other mainline Prog giants: education. American education is practically useless, but British proggers know music, poetry and other cultural tropes of which most Americans are woefully ignorant. Thus Kansas is prog, and distinctly American prog.
@@hurdygurdyguy1 Who taught to write all those lyrics? Who taught George Orwell to write all his great work? Who taught Genesis to write all their lyrics and gave them musical knowledge? The Beatles?
Knowing what we know now about how ego ruined this band in the 70's. "Monolith" could have been a great classic period album if they had simply led off the album with "No One Together". Maybe the lyrics were a bit goofy and Walsh thought it sounded derivative , but they obviously thought highly enough as it appeared on the next record, and the first "Best Of"collection. "On The Other Side" was a puzzling way to open Monolith.
When we talk about Progressive Rock, Kansas is up there with the best. They are Progressive, and they ROCK! Bands like Genesis and Yes are more prog, but in general they don't rock that much.
Kansas is not prog. Icarus is the only song they have that has aspects of prog. That doesn’t make them prog. Neither is Styx. In comment to someone on this thread, I also don’t consider Pink Floyd prog. But that’s me
The Water's era of Pink Floyd was very bluesy. Waters wrote timeless lyrics, no question. I of course love Gilmour, who was basically a blues guitarist -- with a twist to be sure, but he was mostly bluesy. Back in the day, PF was considered PF and loved for it. The Barrett era Pink Floyd was interesting, but imho it wouldn't have lasted. The Gilmour era of PF without Waters is nice but not really what Pink Floyd is known for.
@@davidozab2753 My son in law asked me how you could tell if someone was prog and I said if someone says they are then they probably are. We didn't draw such fine distinctions back in the day, other than to say Queen were teenybopper singles chart music.
Yes Brighton Rock, In the Lap of the Gods, Ogre Battle...definitely lightweight teenybopper commercial stuff....sure you have not confused Queen with the Bay City Rollers? 😜
No they are not Prog. Nor is Pink Floyd. History tends to blur things the farther you get from the events.
What is your definition of Prog? I agree, I do not think Pink Floyd is prog, it is however brilliant.
Do you mean Kansas and Floyd were not progressive in comparison to what was going on at the time or retrospectively speaking? Some bands have perhaps 1 or 2 albums out of their whole catalog that could be considered progressive but then become too mainstream. Who exactly would you consider "progressive rock" Is it releasing an album that doesn't sound a thing like what is transpiring at the time?
What would you call Shine on You Crazy Diamond pts 1-9 if not prog? Animals a concept album , with a track like dogs (20 minutes with ambient keyboard section) is that not prog?
@@classicalbum My definition of Prog is different from your definition, I don't think "Prog" has ever been officially defined. For me, Prog has to have unusual time signatures but is not jazz, space music or classical. It also has to be very hard to play.
I think lots of people would appreciate an agreed upon definition of "Prog". I also think it would be hard to come up with a definition that everyone would be totally happy with.
As usual I completely agree with your entire commentary regarding the band Kansas!! The only difference being that the live "Two for the Show" album is, imho, absolutely phenomenal and I've played that album far more than the original studio albums over time.
I was lucky enough to see Kansas perform live with Steve Walsh on the PONR Tour, and they were spectacular in every way. It remains one of my top 5 concert experiences to date.
Yes, I agree. 'Two for the Show' is a great live document for the band.
One of the best live albums, featuring the ultimate version of "The Wall" too.
As a longtime Kansas fan, I agree that the first 5 are essentials; for many who really like Kansas's initial albums, I would point out MONOLTH and AUDIO-VISIONS. There is still a lot to love on the latter 2. I really like the most recent albums as well. Imo, the high point between AUDIO-VISIONS and THE PRELUDE IMPLICIT is FREAKS OF NATURE. I agree with previous posts that POWER and SOMEWHERE TO ELSEWHERE are contenders.
Great video. I agree about the first five albums, but would extend that to say the first seven studio albums. While Monolith and Audiovisions are a slight step down from the first five, they are still excellent and essential albums to own in my opinion. Been a fan since ‘75 and saw them twice in the ‘70s. Such a great band.
I wholeheartedly endorse your assessment. I too entered the Kansas realm at the 'Dust in the wind' release and still remember where/when I first heard 'Wayward Son'. Frankly it blew me away. I backtracked from there. I rate these chaps very near the top of the Prog tree for me. They employed a perfect blend of progressive complexity and more accessible mainstream rock without ever getting self indulgent as SO MANY of the big names in Prog pantheon were frequently inclined. The sound of Walsh's superb voice, Livgren's songwriting and Steinhardt's violin are very hard to beat. I love 'em!
Excellent summary of this band, which I agree never got bogged down or lost in cliche prog wormholes. They seemed more grounded in Americana roots music than classic prog, but the prog elements are certainly there. Saw them live during one of their reunion tours in the mid-90s, very small, intimate club setting. Fantastic show.
Some Kansas thoughts:
"Power" from 1986 is bascially a decent AOR record with some killer guitar from Steve Morse (some tracks with him in focus really comes recommended). Not a favorite album but something I return to now and again.
"Monolith" and "Audio-Visions" are really good. Not sure why they get so lost in the shuffle and something many doesn't care about. I play them as often as the classics!
Great band!
I think if the best tracks from Monolith and Audio Visions were melded into one album, it would rate with Point and Leftoverture.
A hidden gem from Kansas: Reason to be. Off of Monolith.
Great track.
Their early albums certainly ticked all the prog boxes. Magnum Opus is a prog classic.
My introduction to Kansas was hearing Closet Chronicles on the John Peel show (yes he did indeed play it, at least once anyway). They were also featured in a Sounds article where Geoff Barton declared 'Pomp rock lives- run for the hills' and were considered to be one of the leading 'Pomp Rock' bands alongside Styx. Pomp being an amalgamation of prog and hard rock.
When Monolith was released it got a bad review in Sounds so I never bought it but did instead get their debut which to me remains my favourite, and then I picked up their live album which was a great best of so far, as such I didnt get any other albums until after Steve Morse joined and by then they were more of a melodic rock band with prog flourishes here and there. Really enjoyed their In the Spirit of Things although that didnt do as well as they had hoped. Then with an increase in disposable income during the 90's I got hold of the rest of their catalogue, after getting their long boxed anthology - and have to say that I really like Monolith, maybe not as prog as what came befre but definitely Pomptastic, and being a fan of AOR generally I found Vinyl Confessions to be rather a nce album too - the follow up Drastic Measures is to em their nadir though..Somehwere to Elsewhere is ok, but I dont think they got back to anything almost equalling their early days until the last two.
Are Kansas a prog band? - as you say certainly on the first five albums at least.
In my opinion, Somewhere To Elsewhere is a great album and is worth checking out. It's not as great as their early classics but it still isn't bad.
Because all songs written by Kerry Livgren
I just saw Kansas recently. They may not be as avant-garde or inaccessible as the European prog bands, but they are absolutely prog.
In my view Kansas are a melodic rock band with a mix of styles, AOR, some Prog elements, and a heavy leaning in the early days to Pomp rock. I have never thought of them as being a Prog band, like Yes, Genesis or ELP. I think every period has its magic, but would agree that after Kerry and Steve left a fair bit of the magic went with them. Kerry was on a spiritual journey from the earliest albums, exploring eastern mysticism, occultism, until he ended up finding himself fulfilled by Christianity. Kansas has at its core his story of finding salvation, and many of the lyrics he wrote reflect that, for me that lifts Kansas way above the more mundane bands out there, singing about first loves and parties. I love the early albums with Point of Know Return being a strong favourite, along with Left Overture and Song for America. Of the mid period, more AOR, Audio Visions and Monolith are great albums. Once Walsh left, Kansas became for all intents and purposes a Christian melodic rock band, a period of equal value but different. I like the albums of this period and what followed after Livgren left, his band AD produced some lovely music, as did Protokaw. I think the strongest album of the next phase is In The Spirit of Things which has amazing songs that show Steve Walsh vocals, and fabulous diction to great effect. What then followed, for me, isn’t as good. Its missing the Livgren Walsh magic, and I hate saying this, but feels more like a tribute band. Livgrens Seeds of Change album is amazing, in particular the two songs Ronnie James Dio (another amazing rock vocalist) sings on.
Well, early Yes and Genesis were considered Prog by us teenagers. Yes changed to a more generic rock band in their later years so did Genesis. when Peter Gabriel left. Genesis really got pedestrian when Hackett left.
Kansas had song parts that were just as complex as any of those UK prog bands so yes, I'd say they were definitely prog. Prog isn't just a British genre, it can be played anywhere... 🌍
@@LarryFleetwood8675 Of course Prog can be played by people by any nationality. Many people, back in the mid 70's did consider Kansas a Prog band.
"Somewhere To Elsewhere" is actually quite good. One of my favorite of the post "Audio Visions" albums. Highlight for me is "Distant Vision" sung by Steve Walsh.
They are the very essence of prog at its best. Technical virtuosity, elaborate episodic arrangements, with a nod to classical sensibilities. And they had great tunes. The musicianship served the composition as opposed to so many modern prog bands that are all a bunch of chops within lousy songs. Frankly, although they made some good albums I only really like Leftoverature. But it's an absolutely perfect album.
I like it too - a lot - but I feel it's also maybe a tad overrated compared to some that came before it. Overall though, for me they peaked with PoKR that album sounds so different from everything else they did back then or indeed afterwards, almost as if it was recorded on another planet or something...
'Vanishing up their own aspic' is a great line to describe late King Crimson.
I agree. The only person in King Crimson from beginning to end was Robert Fripp. Every other band member changed. There was the Fripp/Sinfield, Fripp/Wetton, Fripp/Belew, and a few other eras of King Crimson, but those were the main eras. With each change of personnel in the band, there was a different kind of music presented, because different people were writing the songs. Frankly, when Belew left, I lost interest entirely.
I attended my first Kansas concert in 1980 (San Francisco, Cow Palace), and my most recent one just last week (Las Vegas, Smith Center). The whole idea that they aren't a prog band is absolutely baffling to me. They certainly had a period in the mid-to-late '80s through the '90s when they weren't doing much prog. But all of the albums from their classic period, as well as their two most recent studio efforts (both of which are excellent, by the way) are as prog as you'd want.
And yes, "Icarus: Borne on Wings of Steel" is my favorite Kansas song, too.
December of 80? I was there as well for my first Kansas show. At the time they were my favorite band.
We met Steve after the GTR concert at The Warfield, when he told us they were trying to re-form the band, but needed Kerry's permission.
Kansas isn't prog?! ROFLMAO, listen to the following and tell me they're not:
Journey From Mariabronn
Belexes
Apercu/Death Of Mother Nature Suite
Song For America
Lamplight Symphony
The Devil Game
Imcommudro-Hymn To The Atman
Icarus: Borne On Wings Of Steel
All The World
Child Of Innocence
Mysteries and Mayhem/The Pinnacle
The Wall
Miracles Out Of Nowhere
Opus Insert
Cheyenne Anthem
Magnum Opus
The entire Point Of Know Return album(save Dust in the Wind, and even DITW could be prog)
On The Other Side
Angels Have Fallen
A Glimpse Of Home
Away From You
Curtain Of iron
No One Together
Fair Exchange
Diamonds and Pearls
Crossfire
Icarus II
Myriad
Distant Vision
Even Carry On Wayward Son could be called prog...and the two albums after Steve Walsh's retirement are full of prog
Just because it's catchy doesn't mean it isn't prog...and there were " conventional rock songs " on their albums because the record company wanted them to try to get a ' hit single ", as was the norm in the American music industry. The American music industry in the 1970s didn't have patience for prog, unlike Britain/Europe.
As for " Somewhere To Elsewhere ", it is this longtime(1975) Kansas fan's 3rd favorite(after Song For America and Monolith), the band firing on all cylinders musically on it, lyrically, reflective of Kerry Livgren's Christian worldview
Well put words, thanks.
I heard Hopelessly Human on Tommy Vance's Rock On Saturday show on Radio 1 about 100 years ago and that was it for me! I got Point Of Know Return out the record library and it blew me away! They did have a golden period but what a period it was!!! And Steve Walsh singing on Narnia by Steve Hackett is exceptional. It's sad they never really played in the UK as such as I would have travelled to see them. Glad to see you doing a review of this great band!
I find 'Monolith' almost as good as the 5 previous albums of the band.
Agree!
I agree - that's actually the first Kansas album I bought in "real time."
I agree I was actually listening to monolith last night after years of not hearing it I think it’s a very good album.
When I was traveling in the US in 1981, Kansas were all over FM radio. They were the unofficial soundtrack for my trip. I agree with all the choices here. Kansas put a commercial sheen on their progressive ambitions and this paid off handsomely for them. The first five albums are a must have for fans of music of this period. Picked up a near mint vinyl copy of their double live album 'Two for the show' for £3 at a charity shop earlier this year.
Yes they are (American/Midwestern) prog. Certainly their first three LPs are. The fourth (Leftoverture) is mostly prog, but had the misfortune of producing 2-3 commercial hits. The fifth (Point of Know Return) continued to gravitate more towards mainstream pop/rock, and then it was over. The internal creative differences within the band did them in. I'm very happy for them that they did see some commercial success after years or hard work. It can be hard to get a record contract or to even eat otherwise.
Great band.
Great video as always. Somewhere to Elsewhere is definitely worth listening to. My personal rankings (and favorite song from each album):
1. Leftoverture (Magnum Opus)
2. Somewhere to Elsewhere (Distant Vision)
3. The Prelude Implicit (With this Heart)
4. Kansas (Apercu)
5. Point of Know Return (Hopelessly Human)
6. The Absence of Presence (The Song the River Sang)
7. In the Spirit of Things (Inside of Me)
8. Masque (All the World)
9. Monolith (On the Other Side)
10. Song For America (Song For America)
11. Vinyl Confessions (Crossfire)
12. Audio Visions (No One Together)
13. Freaks of Nature (final 2:24 of Peaceful and Warm)
14. Power (Musicatto)
15. Drastic Measures (Everybody’s My Friend)
We all get Old , Young Fella . Good work by the Way
Pretty sure the only reason anyone denies that Kansas is prog is anti-American bias. By any objective measure, they are as prog as any band. Can you point to stuff they did in the 80's that isn't? Sure. But so can you for Yes and Genesis, etc. I do think you will like Somewhere to Elsewhere, especially as it contains a sequel to your favorite Kansas track. Another later album worth checking out is Freaks of Nature.
Of course they're prog. One of the very few American bands that deserve that title.
Back in '76 I got into Kansas through both Song for America and
Leftoverture and they're the first band I ever saw in concert ( '80 ).
Magnum Opus is just tremendous.
But I'll always remain at a cross roads as to which of those 2 masterpiece albums I prefer the most. Overall, Kansas was obviously one of the most unique prog bands ever.
Leftoverture is THE best record of their catalogue… and they are prog.
classic rock riff. I agree totally. leftoverture is awesome, the bees knees!
Point of Know Return is as good as Leftoverture, but much poorly produced. The quality obtained on Leftoverture is fantastic, sonically speaking. PoKR desearves a remixed/remastered edition IMO, able to show the power of the band in its whole glory.
@@glauciodon.campelo8967 To my ears it's really the other way around, the production on Leftoverture I find sort of 'cramped' where it's more opened up and clear on the otherworldly PoKR, that one in my opinion is their masterpiece. But hey, it's the same with Gentle Giant fans can't agree which album is their best same with Kansas and that's fine.
@@LarryFleetwood8675 Well, I keep my opinion.
Regards.
The two most recent albums, especially the last one, are clearly prog of the highest order.
Kansas is without a doubt Prog.. iand so much more.. lonely Street..heavy blues...mixed with fantastic melody..in fact they're the best prog band America has ever had... period...
Yes, they are often prog. Especially in the first 5 albums. I agree that those first five are the most vital of their discography. The live album, Two For the Show is every bit as vital. In my opinion, one of the ten best live albums of the 70's. The two disc reissue is a must for anyone who loves 70's prog. Walsh is more raw, his voice slightly worn by the strain of constant touring. It's even better for it. Soulful and wide ranging.
I would put Audio Visions above Monolith. I think Monolith is in desperate need of a remastering. It sounds thin. There is some good stuff on it. I have tried to like it more over the years. It ain't bad.
I saw them twice in the 90's. The 1st show blew me away. One of the best sets I have ever seen. Incredible. The 2nd was fine, though not quite as good.
I think the new band with Ronnie Platt is excellent. RIP Robbie.
Their whole discography is worth checking out. I enjoyed this clip. Thanks!
I think Monolith is quite good actually but agree with everything else!
The best Prog band from Murika.
I do agree with most everything you've said here. Their 70's hayday stuff make them my favorite American Prog Band.
I would highly recommend Somewhere to elsewhere. Like Leftoverture all of the songs were written by Livgren. It is my fourth favorite Kansas album behind Leftoverture, Point and Song for America.
Prog rock is not exclusive to Old Blighty. Masque is an absolute masterpiece!
Music aside, Kansas has one of my all time favorite band logos
In my humble opinion the best prog band in the US.
I know you only picked a few from the post-70's era, but 1980's Audio Visions I believe was the last to have the original/classic line-up. Do you think it was a slight improvement over Monolith? The cover is pretty awful, though. Well, the back cover especially.
Haha the back cover is terrible with that guy's eyeball! And to me, Audio Visions is a major improvement over Monolith. I really like that album.
Monolith is one of their best. Slightly less proggy but innovative and very polished.
I heard no mention of their album, "Power"? I was in 3rd grade when I bought the cassette at a gas station. It isn't that bad, either. The song, "Secret Service" is one of my faves to this day and sounds downright evil, like you are about to fall into hell.
Nice one. Couldn't agree more, particularly in relation to 'the God years'. I sometimes get the impression that these musicians who 'find God' (sic) think that their wholesome songs are more profound than they actually are. Preachy and unrelatable, more like. I do think that 'Absence of Presence' is a very playable album, although a long way off from the Kansas of 'Left Overture' and 'Point of Know Return'.
I’m a little older than you Berry. Leftoverture was one of my first LPs. I also wore the grooves out of point of no return. in college I went back and listen to the earlier stuff and loved it. I saw them live in 1981 with the Moody Blues at the old Boston Garden. Your assessment of this band is spot on. they’re definitely Prog in those classic years.
When I think of Kansas I also think of Boston and Styx. I've always found something slightly cheesy about these bands. Maybe not quite REO Speedwagon cheesy but nowhere near as accomplished as UK Prog. But Kansas was the best of the US Prog bands. And they did have a few very good songs that weren't cheesy.
Monolith was the first one I got when it was released, I love it but the preceding albums are stronger for sure. Audiovisions is mostly good too and it's worth checking out Power and In The Spirit of Things from the 80's that feature Steve Morse. By the way yes, Somewhere To Elsewhere is well worth listening to, a return of the more classic 70's sound with Livgren, Hope & Steinhardt back on board.
Kudos Kind Sir for another persistent investigation among several earlier and recent. And you have Most certainly Kansas are Prog and the best among US prog. They were my favorite in 1979 but then I internalized Tull. But since then always among my top 5. Most Kansas songs are superb in music and lyrics. And the most outstanding is Journey From Meriabronn.
Great episode and insite to the demise of Kansas best years. Felt Mask was greatly underrated and agree leftoverture is there best effort.
Not a band that never really registered with me until The absence of presence which a friend recommended to me. I had heard the big two (Wayward Son and Dust in the Wind) but never thought of following up any interest until after hearing the absence of presence when I purchased the best of Kansas. Not a band that I will be looking to get the full discography but if playing in UK locally may well think about catching them live.
Good, pithy summary of the Kansas canon. As a long time fan, I agree with nearly all of it. My favourite song is probably The Pinnacle, although The Wall is very moving as well. Also Miracles Out of Nowhere is a glorious track. For me what made them such a powerful band during their glory years is that between six members they could deploy two guitarists, two keyboard players and two singers, with the added gravy of violin. That allowed them to create incredibly intricate melodic and harmonic passages while still keeping a ballsy guitar-based rock sound.
Also to add that the Steve Morse years that followed the God years had some highlights even though the writing was very different. And Somewhere to Elsewhere is pretty good.
At the moment, my favourite Kansas song is The Pinnacle. Now that's got to be a prog track for sure! The experimentation with all sorts of sounds... there is one very short flourish of keys that, upon my first listen, sounded rather creepy....it still does.
My fav band ever. I saw them in Shepherd’s Bush. See them live. They are incredible . Point of know return my fav album. Check out somewhere to elsewhere album.
That classic lineup was LOADED with talent as lyricists, composers and musicians. I agree with your opinions on album order EXCEPT for the dis on Two for the Show. I believe that double live album was an awesome showcase of their songs and talent in a live setting.
Would you consider Electric Light Orchestra progressive?
Love Kansas since 76.
First concert I ever saw was in 1978. Kansas Point of No Return tour. Thin Lizzy was the opening act. I agree the first 5 albums are the best. I too like the last two and you asked about Somewhere to Elsewhere. I really like this album a lot and would recommend you give it a good listen
They were a progressive rock band until the 80's.
1. Leftoverture
2. Point of Know Return
3. Song for America
4. Masque
5. Audio-Visions
6. Monolith
I've enjoyed your vids for some time, and have agreed with your assessments, in general, probably 90% of the time. Few, and minor, have been my quibbles.
On this one, while I agree with your album rating, I do, very respectfully, disagree with citing Kansas as Prog.
Neo Prog, yes, using prog motifs, but, I never heard anything groundbreaking with them, and, for me, that's the greater litmus test. Prog, meaning progressive, should have some element of surprise, or twist, or groundbreaking element. Looking over the horizon, rather than trading in on what has been done before, mostly by the esteemed bands you mention in the vid.
Kansas spoke Prog, yes, but, they didn't invent the language. Does that make better sense of my point?
Cheers, amigo.
I agree. The first five albums are excellent, but I also like monolith as well. They definitely elements of Prog. But I wouldn’t put them with ELP Genesis, and the like that . Very good Band Though
Amazing band. ..absolutely adore them. Definitely prog imo. Complex melodies as well as stellar musicianship
Strayed for sure but what prog act hasn't?
I read a lot of the British sneering at Kansas as a prog band. I’ve noticed the English prog fans are slightly guarded of their greatest musical export, which this Texan understands. Zappa once said, “We invented the wheel and rolled it over to England. They reinvented the the wheel and rolled back to us. England gave us The Beatles. We had surf music.” Thank you England!
Excellent subject. The precious and difficult details Kansas added to every song is very much a Prog Rock staple. As far as later work, some Prog Groups fizzled out like Kansas. Big Generator by Yes is obnoxiously pop. John (King Crimson) Whetton's Asia albums was pop music contrived to be hitmakers, which they were.
Magnum Opus, Apercu,. Journey to Mariabron, Song for America, Lamplight Symphony, Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman, no other band could even cover that, not even Yes or Genesis, because of the precision. Check out their song "Spider" on their live Two for the Show album, after the Manager and Creator of the Band Phil Ehart's drum solo, and how the band comes in, very difficult music execution. Also the Voyage of 8 18, not written by Livgren, a recently release is also very good prog. No other band could come close.
I'm a Christian, and 1) I took no offense, 2) agree that the "God phase" was a little strained. I'm glad to see an appreciation of Kansas and one of the best voices in rock. Kansas was my starter drug for prog. (And now I love bands like Shamblemaths. :))
Definitely prog and well worth the effort to explore beyond their greatest hits and multi-platinum selling albums. Just because their music is consistently listenable doesn't mean they're not prog.
My favorite Kansas album is "Masque", which to me would be a perfect album if it didn't include "It Takes A Woman's Love (To Make A Man)". Followed by Leftoverture, Point Of Know Return, Monolith, Song or America, the debut then Audio-Visions.
I think you, pretty much, nailed it. 1st 5 albums are prog, after that the "God phase" and subsequent Walsh albums are not, then a return to prog on the last 3 "Somewhere to Elsewhere", "Prelude Implicit" and "Absence of Presence".
You did make one error. Rich Williams says "Drastic Measures" the follow-up to "Vinyl Confessions", is Kansas' worst record. And he is correct
Define Progressive Rock.
Lately I've been listening to Song For America, and the excellent 30th Anniversary edition of Two For The Show. I'm really enjoying the second disc. But I'm off the bus after 1978.
"Freaks of Nature" was a true return to form, classic, yet even heavier Kansas firing on all cylinders
While they would do more arena rock, those early albums were definitely prog. I think their prog credentials get knocked because of the later years and they were more accessible and had hit songs. Those early albums are outstanding.
Had to laugh at your God/Yoko joke. Brilliant!
New Kansas is very good, seems that like Styx they have aged well and made some good choices and can recreate the older material well. It doesn’t hurt that they have an ex Yes keyboard player whom Yes should have kept imo.
“Omnipresent Yoko Ono” Hilarious!! , I am a Christian no offense taken. I saw them at an outdoor concert in Michigan when Leftoverture came out, good concert except their violinist was sick and couldn’t perform. Obviously he is a key element of their sound.
That 74-80 period was awesome! After that I don’t know what happened but it just wasn’t quite as good.
On Somewhere to elsewhere, there is Icarus II, you may like it. I didn't care for the God years as well.
You mentioned someone saying closest the US got to prog, but you did not agree. So if I may who do you feel holds that title? Anybody?
Touch.
Most definitely same with some of the albums by styx and early journey
But let me tell you, I LOVE Vinyl Confessions. I think it is wrong to compare them to Yes, ELP, Crimson, etc. no way but this is a very fine great band, you have to admit mate.
I consider - for better or worse - that the classic era runs from their debut up to Audio-Visions in 1980. After that, Steve Walsh took off because he wasn't happy with the religious overtones of the new songs being written. Vinyl Confessions saw John Elefante join and poor Robbie Steinhardt slowly get phased out on violin. Drastic Measures was the end of the violin Kansas for over a decade and may be their worst album.
The pop years after Walsh came back are somewhat enjoyable if you can appreciate the American AOR/pop rock sound. Power in 1986 was a bit heavier with Steve Morse being a welcome addition. In The Spirit Of Things from 1988 was, in my opinion, a pretty great record, but the label dropped the band and the album fell into obscurity.
Freaks of Nature in 1995 was a heavier effort, maybe a bit more bluesy than normal, but at least violin worked its way back into the sound. With this and the following album, Walsh's voice was really starting to crack, and while the 2000 reunion album has some great songs, it's let down by Walsh and his harsher tone.
The newest incarnation of the band is trying to harken back to the glory days, and while I really enjoy the 2 latest albums for what they are, they feel thin to me. There's just something missing that I can't quite put my finger on...
... actually, I can. It's missing Walsh, Steinhardt, Hope, and Livgren!!!
Walsh live back in his haydays was unbeatable, a second to none phrasing vocalist.
Many bands do not love genre labels. I suspect Kansas is one. Clearly whether a great band like Kansas is progressive or not depends on who you ask and which song. Material such as "Magnum Opus," "Closet Chronicles" or material from the first few albums, which some consider progressive, has very little in common with a song like the Drastic Measures album's track "Everybody's My Friend," which I'd find hard to believe anyone would consider prog. As for your thinking of "God" as an "omnipresent Yoko Ono," I think there is no way a talented peace loving artist like Yoko Ono should be compared to an entity that chooses to not stop mass murderers, or blamed for the Beatles' breakup. If John Lennon could hear and read the Yoko Ono bashers' words, I believe he would despise every one of them. Have a nice day, Classic Album Review.
Despite hearing Kansas on classic rock radio throughout my youth in the Midwest I never really got into the band. Not sure why. Maybe they were too normal for me.
They were heavily influenced by prog but lack the originality. Not prog but wrote some good songs.
Yes
Strange concept is 'Prog' A tad grandiloquent but possibly appropriate for those more...algebraic tunesters.Crimson,GG etc.If it encapsulates violent time changes and somewhat portentuous musings l guess if the cap fits etc ?.
Yes were obviously in that sphere of reference but the handle seems..inelegant and inadequate to describe this particular groups ouvre and indeed Genesis's sheer spiritual and emotional depths of ambition,to say nothing of their sheer musicality (Going for the one being my personal one-choice-only desert island disc/cd).... and stage presence.
I guess 'Prog' provides a suitable frame of reference and cosmic/dram rock invites a certain jocundity to a degree but l'm not getting 'Prog' with Kansas,just an interesting US Tull equivalent and l don't really see Tull as particularly Prog ,more Folkadelic-Rock but almost a different category in themselves. Idle musings lol.
There are a lot of Kansas fans I knew who disliked 'Christian-era' Kansas not because of aesthetic reasons, but ideological. It's unfortunate that anti-Christian worldviews would get in the way of understanding and enjoying what is actually a work of art--regardless of the artist's persuasion (enjoyed "Audio-visions" and "Vinyl Confessions" as much as "Leftoverture" and "Point of Know Return" admittedly). By way of illustrating, most Christians hated black metal for its in-your-face satanism missing out on a beauty (albeit dark) that the genre can produce (eg. Burzum's "Filosofem"), inasmuch as most BM purists abhor Christian BM (Unblack Metal) or Extol ignoring the brilliance that these too can produce.
Hell yes they're prog. American prog. Definitely different from the awesome UK prog bands but you hear some inspirations. Also the missing RRHOF inductee that pisses me off most.
1. Song For America
2. Leftoveture
3. Debut
4. Point of Know Return
5. Masque
6. Monolith
The rest are hit and miss for me.
Kansas (at their peak) were definitely Prog.... Oh and Yoko did not break the Beatles up.... Mr McCartney did that!😀Keep up the good work Barry.... X
i know, but it was a great Yoko Ono joke
Sisterly - Kansas not minor depression as UK prog bands, that's because some not recognize them as prog! Yes - they are positive major mood - and still prog
How about a review of styx
My definition of prog is the resistance of conformity. For example, in a typical song where one might expect a "G Chord", the prog band says "no, that's expected, let change keys here". It can work well to make songs more interesting, however when it is done gratuitously, it can become an overkilling blob without any point to it other than to say, "look at us we're different". Whatever one decides to do in a song should support the song and lyrics, which Tony Banks does SO well whereas others fall prey to endless soloing and large detached interludes with no relation to the song. A great example is Jordan Rudess. A fine technical player, but I don't think he is able to mentally or physically play even a Beatles song without 32nd note arpeggios thrown in.
imho that is a good definition of Prog.
Some of it is progressive early Styx was considered progressive
If you have to ask - then the answer is probably no. Not prog but a rock band that employs prog or even many prog elements. Does anyone ask if Genesis/Yes/ELP/King Crimson/VdGG/Camel/Gentle Giant are prog ? Of course not.
Love your channel, but I disagreed with almost everything you said in this one. Viva la difference!
You don't like Kansas?
@@classicalbum No, I adore first 4 Kansas albums, and saw them on the Masque and Leftoverture tours.. (First album is my personal favorite even though I know Leftoverture is their strongest album.) But I don't think prog is just noodling, I don't think KC crawled up their own aspic, I love live albums, and I don't think the Kansas live album was a money grab! (We fans were begging for it.) Still, I really do enjoy your channel and rarely never miss an episode.
Kansas were one of those bands that if they had just loosened up a bit and turned the production down could almost have been a heavyish melodic rock band .A bit like Journey might have done.Alas a mix of popish / prog/ (a bit boring) kind of end result.
Deciding whether a particular band is "prog" is a pointless endeavor, like deciding whether your socks are stylish. Or more like arguing whether Band X was the greatest rock group that ever lived... This person over here will say, "Yes! Of course! Definitely!" and that person over there will say, "No way! You're insane! Band Y was the greatest! You are wrong forever and ever!"
And back and forth it shall go, to no useful end, a fact which should be obvious from the start. "Rock" music, probably the broadest and most diverse of all musical genres, contains a few dozen sub-genres, one of which is "prog", possibly the most vague and ill-defined of them all. It is hard to conceive of a less productive or less interesting thing to debate.
For what it's worth, by the time Kansas got popular, many dyed-in-the-wool fans of sixties/seventies stuff they now call "classic rock", thought of them at the time as "corporate rock", the kind of slick, glossy, polished rock that lacked the rough-edged grittiness that defined the earlier stuff, music that wanted to produce radio hits, but didn't want to end up in the "pop" album racks... And this landed them in the same pigeon hole as Styx or Boston... all of whom made some fine music of course... at a time when the glory days of rock were coming to an end, when groups like the Cars were the last dying gasp of breath before descending into the seeming eternity of the Disco era...
If one must categorize their rock music to enjoy it, why not just put on The Yes Album or Thick As a Brick, then you can satisfy yourself that you have delved into the hazy realm of "prog rock" and tell all your friends about it on youTube or whatever it takes to resolve your obsession with whether such-and-such band is "prog".
Difference between Kansas and other mainline Prog giants: education. American education is practically useless, but British proggers know music, poetry and other cultural tropes of which most Americans are woefully ignorant. Thus Kansas is prog, and distinctly American prog.
🤣 talk to Roger Waters about the UK education system!
@@hurdygurdyguy1 Who taught to write all those lyrics? Who taught George Orwell to write all his great work? Who taught Genesis to write all their lyrics and gave them musical knowledge? The Beatles?
Knowing what we know now about how ego ruined this band in the 70's. "Monolith" could have been a great classic period album if they had simply led off the album with "No One Together". Maybe the lyrics were a bit goofy and Walsh thought it sounded derivative , but they obviously thought highly enough as it appeared on the next record, and the first "Best Of"collection. "On The Other Side" was a puzzling way to open Monolith.
They are
When we talk about Progressive Rock, Kansas is up there with the best. They are Progressive, and they ROCK! Bands like Genesis and Yes are more prog, but in general they don't rock that much.
Kansas is not prog. Icarus is the only song they have that has aspects of prog. That doesn’t make them prog. Neither is Styx. In comment to someone on this thread, I also don’t consider Pink Floyd prog. But that’s me
Man, you need to hear more than "Icarus" then...
@@LarryFleetwood8675 honestly, I am not really a fan! I like some of their songs, but most of it just doesn’t peak my interest. Oh well
The Water's era of Pink Floyd was very bluesy. Waters wrote timeless lyrics, no question. I of course love Gilmour, who was basically a blues guitarist -- with a twist to be sure, but he was mostly bluesy. Back in the day, PF was considered PF and loved for it. The Barrett era Pink Floyd was interesting, but imho it wouldn't have lasted. The Gilmour era of PF without Waters is nice but not really what Pink Floyd is known for.
No
Yes
@@davidozab2753 My son in law asked me how you could tell if someone was prog and I said if someone says they are then they probably are. We didn't draw such fine distinctions back in the day, other than to say Queen were teenybopper singles chart music.
Yes Brighton Rock, In the Lap of the Gods, Ogre Battle...definitely lightweight teenybopper commercial stuff....sure you have not confused Queen with the Bay City Rollers? 😜
@@jimmycampbell78 Comparatively speaking