The flaw here is that deck lengths are a consequence of the wheelbase. The space between the edge of the truck's base plate and nose is adjusted. Paul Schmitt refers to it as "fingers of flat" (I think). The fulcrum is moved forward or back when the wheelbase is adjusted. Without a correction to the lever you get the results above. Because OP can not adjust the "fingers of flat" along with the wheelbase this experiment doesn't really tell you anything.
Yeah, I think it was a mistake to call this video the "science of wheelbase" since it's more like "science of tail length" in reality. And I'm kinda disappointed it didn't go over the obvious things like how different wheelbase lengths affect turning radius.
What do you mean "this experiment doesn't really tell you anything"? It clearly shows the impact (all be it exaggerated) of increasing or decreasing the wheel base. Increase the wheel base, the angle of takeoff increases, requires more power and potentially more pop with the trade-off of less control. Reduced wheel base results in less power req'd to pop the tail etc etc. You hear Ben Degros reference this all the time, taking about how a set up "feels heavy" with a particular brand of truck. On it's own fingers of flat is pretty irrelevant anyway. You need to also consider the brand of truck (wheel base changes for different brands), height of truck + wheel, length of tail, angle of tail etc etc. I'm pretty sure Paul Schmitt presses boards 5-6 per mould so fingers of flat and the shape of the kick change depending on the locating in the press. And the fact fingers are being used to measure is pretty unscientific anyway.
rather than moving the trucks around, we need this experiment with an adjustable middle portion of the deck (like dining tables with an center leaf extensions).
It's really more a matter of distance from where the wheels touch the ground to the tip of the nose/tail. So rather than wheel base, it's nose/tail length, placement of the truck, truck height, wheel height. Wheel base changes turn radius - like a tiny car can turn sharper than a bus. But it's cool that you can build these animations and such. Really helps to visualize the concepts.
It would be amazing to have a simulator where we could customize every aspect of a board, like the tail/nose length, wheelbase, deck length, wheel size and height, and even the truck brand and geometry since all these factors impact how a deck performs and also affects how the board will pop and “feel”
Another, usually looked over, facto, but important is the distance between the length between the tail or nose and bolts. I like 2 fingers of flat in the back, 1½ fingers of flat up front, 14" wheelbase, and a fuller nose and tail, but not too long, just fuller.
My non symmetrical shaped skateboard, came with two sets of holes at the nose. While it adjusts the wheelbase, the distance at the back remains constant.
as long as the board is scaled to be smaller, the shorter wheelbase lets shorter people ollie easier, because they don't have to extend as far. landing "bolts" also matches more to their natural stance when landing. kind of goes off shoulder width... the big physics thing imo, is the fact that through the process of jumping and pressing tail down, the board's fulcrum/Y axis is determined by the largest energy source i.e. the ground. because physics. the board physically can not rotate anywhere else but the point of highest energy. once the tail strikes the ground and goes airborne the highest point of energy (mass) changes to the point in the object with the most momentum/inertia/energy. although, once it pops that energy immediately starts to even out, because as the angle of the board goes past vertical, the front truck starts to accelerate the back truck, which pulls all the momentum/inertia and turns it into a balanced rotation. "timing" your lift and then the leverage through the pocket before this happens is key, and the angle of the board at the pop greatly affects this... i.e. low trucks with low pop creates low pop angle which changes the length of time one has before this happens. pops a bit faster for low stuff, but also makes the length of time waiting for the proper time to lift longer making higher tricks a bit.... different this is how ollie norths and back foot flips/nollie front foot flips work in a physics sense. the new Y axis is still determined by the point of highest mass. although, because both trucks are balanced, whichever one is moving faster has more momentum, which is energy, which is mass. you can juggle the inertia by pressing on the opposite side of the fulcrum. you can't flip if inertia balances to the point where you can't leverage the long side of the lever by the short one. ollie norths are simply leveraging, then lifting you front foot after setting the height and letting the back end rise higher than the fulcrum. there is about 3 actual inertia shifts that could physically be done by a human. maybe 4, but that would be very odd to see lol... reference frame inside of a reference frame physics... rider and board together are a frame and board by itself is a frame. when you isolate the board and pay attention to the actual location of the inertia, then your whole perception of what is happening changes.
little hack if you want to Ollie a little higher: risers or larger wheels (only a little larger, those 60mm OJ wheels aren't necessary) but it has something to do with a little big of degrees added to the range of pop area
The flaw in this study is that you are changing the wheel base without any other dimensions changing which is rarely done for skateboard decks. Generally when wheel base is changed, the length of the deck is increased or decreased respectively so that the nose and tail do not lose their length too dramatically.
It would be more accurate to just set up multiple boards with different wheel bases. The big thing is the actual "tipping point/ bend at the nose or tail staying the same distance from the trucks and nose/tail length. The trucks are not just moved closer, the entire board geometry is reduced or lengthened so the dimensions of the board stay relevant. That's of course how they have the same shape board offered at different sizes.
Your experiment didnt take the concept of the distance between tip of the board to the bolts serious. You shortened or expanded the wheel base, but actual skateboards wont make the nose or tail extra long. They will be just as extended, in ratio, as any other traditional 7.75 or 8.5 width deck... You doing this experiement with short wheelbase with extra long nose and tail is very misleading...
Yes, but that's not how science works. In science you adjust one variable at a time so you can see what the difference in the outcome is. If he was to adjust both the wheelbase and board length or nose/tail length then there'd be several things happening at once, making it difficult to highlight the effect wheelbase itself has, which was the point of his video to begin with. He could've made this more clear though, I agree.
@@Notapizzathief False. In fact, this "experiment" adjusts multiple parameters: wheelbase length and tail length, among others. The cleanest would be to find two skateboards that have different wheelbase lengths but almost identical tail length, at the least.
Haha, true. In fact, I tried a lot more conditions but didn't think I could make meaningful stories out of them. And you know, grooved holes look better lol.
Have you thought of doing a video on each board shape and how the shape might affect the physics? If there's even a significant difference at all. I imagine Andy Andersons deck would probably perform a bit different than like, an Old School shape.
This topic drives me absolutely mad... decks have a tail length and they have a wheelbase. A deck with a 6.75" tail and a 7" nose (standard) will have 6.75" tail and 7" nose whether the wheelbase is 14, 14.25, or 14.5. The entire deck length is longer yes but the tail is the tail and the wheelbase is the wheelbase...
Normally, I think your videos are extremely well thought out and made (hence I'm subscribed). But this one is really weird from the perspective of a skater and physics. Of course you're going to need more pop if you use your wider wheelbase, since you have less tail and thus less leverage. Archimedes. As I wrote in a subcomment, this isn't scientific at all. You've adjusted at least two parameters simultaneously (wheelbase, tail length). You need to keep the latter consistent, otherwise this is worse than meaningless, it's misleading.
To some extent, yes. Steeper kick helps you raise the nose of the board, allowing it to bite into your front foot more. If you can control your front foot effectively, you should be able to do tricks higher.
I have discovered that some geeks take the " science " behind skateboards far too serious. This sounds like Andy Anderson promo work on new wheels or decks. If you are serious about learning any trick you can adjust to any board setup. Stop the science geeking out and get out and skate. BS like this sucks the life out of a pure type of expression.
Or you could just ignore the video and stop gatekeeping the sport especially since no one even knows who you are lmao. There is plenty of us out there who love this type of geeking out in our hobbies and the fact you feel it suck’s the fun out of it is a problem for you to solve for yourself.
No, what "sucks the life out of a pure type of expression" is posers like you who try to belittle others for enjoying the sport in the way they want to. Have you ever stopped to consider that some people like "geeking out" because they enjoy learning about physics just as much as they enjoy skateboarding?
Does anyone have any idea to make an adjustable deck like these??
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maybe cut a section out of the middle of the board, and bolt 2 metal pipes with adjustable holes to the underside.
Solid metal dowels
The flaw here is that deck lengths are a consequence of the wheelbase. The space between the edge of the truck's base plate and nose is adjusted. Paul Schmitt refers to it as "fingers of flat" (I think). The fulcrum is moved forward or back when the wheelbase is adjusted. Without a correction to the lever you get the results above. Because OP can not adjust the "fingers of flat" along with the wheelbase this experiment doesn't really tell you anything.
Yeah, I think it was a mistake to call this video the "science of wheelbase" since it's more like "science of tail length" in reality. And I'm kinda disappointed it didn't go over the obvious things like how different wheelbase lengths affect turning radius.
@@Hanstra this is why I seek out experts, rather than query an AI.
What do you mean "this experiment doesn't really tell you anything"? It clearly shows the impact (all be it exaggerated) of increasing or decreasing the wheel base. Increase the wheel base, the angle of takeoff increases, requires more power and potentially more pop with the trade-off of less control. Reduced wheel base results in less power req'd to pop the tail etc etc.
You hear Ben Degros reference this all the time, taking about how a set up "feels heavy" with a particular brand of truck.
On it's own fingers of flat is pretty irrelevant anyway. You need to also consider the brand of truck (wheel base changes for different brands), height of truck + wheel, length of tail, angle of tail etc etc. I'm pretty sure Paul Schmitt presses boards 5-6 per mould so fingers of flat and the shape of the kick change depending on the locating in the press. And the fact fingers are being used to measure is pretty unscientific anyway.
rather than moving the trucks around, we need this experiment with an adjustable middle portion of the deck (like dining tables with an center leaf extensions).
The production is crazy 🔥. Great experiment as well
It's really more a matter of distance from where the wheels touch the ground to the tip of the nose/tail. So rather than wheel base, it's nose/tail length, placement of the truck, truck height, wheel height. Wheel base changes turn radius - like a tiny car can turn sharper than a bus.
But it's cool that you can build these animations and such. Really helps to visualize the concepts.
It would be amazing to have a simulator where we could customize every aspect of a board, like the tail/nose length, wheelbase, deck length, wheel size and height, and even the truck brand and geometry since all these factors impact how a deck performs and also affects how the board will pop and “feel”
Another, usually looked over, facto, but important is the distance between the length between the tail or nose and bolts. I like 2 fingers of flat in the back, 1½ fingers of flat up front, 14" wheelbase, and a fuller nose and tail, but not too long, just fuller.
Good shit g
Slappy nollie bs tail was sick !
Very cool man. Nice tool. Id love to see some bowl and ramp pumping physics
My non symmetrical shaped skateboard, came with two sets of holes at the nose. While it adjusts the wheelbase, the distance at the back remains constant.
as long as the board is scaled to be smaller, the shorter wheelbase lets shorter people ollie easier, because they don't have to extend as far. landing "bolts" also matches more to their natural stance when landing. kind of goes off shoulder width...
the big physics thing imo, is the fact that through the process of jumping and pressing tail down, the board's fulcrum/Y axis is determined by the largest energy source i.e. the ground. because physics. the board physically can not rotate anywhere else but the point of highest energy.
once the tail strikes the ground and goes airborne the highest point of energy (mass) changes to the point in the object with the most momentum/inertia/energy. although, once it pops that energy immediately starts to even out, because as the angle of the board goes past vertical, the front truck starts to accelerate the back truck, which pulls all the momentum/inertia and turns it into a balanced rotation. "timing" your lift and then the leverage through the pocket before this happens is key, and the angle of the board at the pop greatly affects this... i.e. low trucks with low pop creates low pop angle which changes the length of time one has before this happens. pops a bit faster for low stuff, but also makes the length of time waiting for the proper time to lift longer making higher tricks a bit.... different
this is how ollie norths and back foot flips/nollie front foot flips work in a physics sense. the new Y axis is still determined by the point of highest mass. although, because both trucks are balanced, whichever one is moving faster has more momentum, which is energy, which is mass. you can juggle the inertia by pressing on the opposite side of the fulcrum. you can't flip if inertia balances to the point where you can't leverage the long side of the lever by the short one. ollie norths are simply leveraging, then lifting you front foot after setting the height and letting the back end rise higher than the fulcrum.
there is about 3 actual inertia shifts that could physically be done by a human. maybe 4, but that would be very odd to see lol... reference frame inside of a reference frame physics... rider and board together are a frame and board by itself is a frame. when you isolate the board and pay attention to the actual location of the inertia, then your whole perception of what is happening changes.
little hack if you want to Ollie a little higher: risers or larger wheels (only a little larger, those 60mm OJ wheels aren't necessary) but it has something to do with a little big of degrees added to the range of pop area
I love this approach to the wheelbase topic!
なるほど！参考にがんばります。ありがとうございます。👍
コメントありがとうございます
Dope video bro
Weirdly I can pop over the pyra table (middle) much higher if I have a deck with less tail. How to explain this?
The flaw in this study is that you are changing the wheel base without any other dimensions changing which is rarely done for skateboard decks. Generally when wheel base is changed, the length of the deck is increased or decreased respectively so that the nose and tail do not lose their length too dramatically.
could you make a video of laser flips or hardflips
It would be more accurate to just set up multiple boards with different wheel bases. The big thing is the actual "tipping point/ bend at the nose or tail staying the same distance from the trucks and nose/tail length. The trucks are not just moved closer, the entire board geometry is reduced or lengthened so the dimensions of the board stay relevant. That's of course how they have the same shape board offered at different sizes.
True.
Your experiment didnt take the concept of the distance between tip of the board to the bolts serious. You shortened or expanded the wheel base, but actual skateboards wont make the nose or tail extra long. They will be just as extended, in ratio, as any other traditional 7.75 or 8.5 width deck...
You doing this experiement with short wheelbase with extra long nose and tail is very misleading...
Yes, but that's not how science works. In science you adjust one variable at a time so you can see what the difference in the outcome is. If he was to adjust both the wheelbase and board length or nose/tail length then there'd be several things happening at once, making it difficult to highlight the effect wheelbase itself has, which was the point of his video to begin with. He could've made this more clear though, I agree.
@@Notapizzathief False. In fact, this "experiment" adjusts multiple parameters: wheelbase length and tail length, among others. The cleanest would be to find two skateboards that have different wheelbase lengths but almost identical tail length, at the least.
Such a sick channel!
imo if you were just testing 3 different spacings, you should have just drilled 2 extra sets of holes instead of making channels
Haha, true.
In fact, I tried a lot more conditions but didn't think I could make meaningful stories out of them.
And you know, grooved holes look better lol.
今回もマニアックで興味深い内容で面白かったです、
ウィールベース関連で掘り下げて欲しい事があるんですが、それは旋回性能です、よくインディは切れるから小回りが出来る、クイックなボールはインディじゃないと回れないとか聞きます、トラックの旋回性能とウィールベースの関係、例えばベンチャーとインディの比較とか、機会があったら続編のネタとして検討してみてください
Have you thought of doing a video on each board shape and how the shape might affect the physics? If there's even a significant difference at all. I imagine Andy Andersons deck would probably perform a bit different than like, an Old School shape.
I wish I had enough money to buy different shapes haha.
This topic drives me absolutely mad... decks have a tail length and they have a wheelbase. A deck with a 6.75" tail and a 7" nose (standard) will have 6.75" tail and 7" nose whether the wheelbase is 14, 14.25, or 14.5. The entire deck length is longer yes but the tail is the tail and the wheelbase is the wheelbase...
1:55 lmao😂
Typically, boards with longer wheelbases will have longer tails.
Normally, I think your videos are extremely well thought out and made (hence I'm subscribed). But this one is really weird from the perspective of a skater and physics.
Of course you're going to need more pop if you use your wider wheelbase, since you have less tail and thus less leverage. Archimedes.
As I wrote in a subcomment, this isn't scientific at all. You've adjusted at least two parameters simultaneously (wheelbase, tail length). You need to keep the latter consistent, otherwise this is worse than meaningless, it's misleading.
Do you think a steeper pop angle makes for higher tricks?
To some extent, yes.
Steeper kick helps you raise the nose of the board, allowing it to bite into your front foot more. If you can control your front foot effectively, you should be able to do tricks higher.
やっぱり日本人です。発音 が。。。
ありがとうございます。精進しますね。
Wait.....at 00:50, that's only true for your jerry-rigged setup though! Is your experiment flawed from the get go?
Epicu
As complicated as a japanese can be...
Next time just saw 1/2 inch off your tail/nose for similar results.
🛹🛹🛹
I have discovered that some geeks take the " science " behind skateboards far too serious. This sounds like Andy Anderson promo work on new wheels or decks. If you are serious about learning any trick you can adjust to any board setup. Stop the science geeking out and get out and skate. BS like this sucks the life out of a pure type of expression.
Or you could just ignore the video and stop gatekeeping the sport especially since no one even knows who you are lmao. There is plenty of us out there who love this type of geeking out in our hobbies and the fact you feel it suck’s the fun out of it is a problem for you to solve for yourself.
No, what "sucks the life out of a pure type of expression" is posers like you who try to belittle others for enjoying the sport in the way they want to. Have you ever stopped to consider that some people like "geeking out" because they enjoy learning about physics just as much as they enjoy skateboarding?
He is mad that he doesn't understand it.
You’ll be shocked to find out there are pros that have a preference in having shorter/longer wheelbases