Physics Engine - Wheelbase of skateboard
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 янв 2022
- The wheelbase in skateboarding affects two things: the steering angle and the height of pop. Let's see what happens if we change the wheelbase using a physics simulator.
You can see interactive 3D models from web site. Please visit it if you would like to.
whythetrick.io
Talky Beat by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: www.twinmusicom.org/song/265/t...
Artist: www.twinmusicom.org 
Спорт
As someone skating at 230 pounds, when I switched to a 15" longer wheelbase, I gained far more control over my pop. I loved learning about the physics as to why. Great video!
These types of videos are exactly what I've been searching for🔥🔥
love ur videos!
i would like to see a comparison in needed forces of normal ollie compared to fakie ollie (or any other trick ), because tricks still standing imo feel more like fakie tricks and regular tricks feel a bit different. Maybe there isnt even a difference and it perhaps is all just in the body weight distribution i would imagine.
Also a thing i personally do is, i pop sort of backwards on some tricks ( and especially on fakie tricks) and would be interested in how the simulation looks if u apply the Pop force not perpendicular but instead slightly pointing backwards.
I noticed too, that the pop in skateboarding usually isn't 1 quickly applied force but rather its contiuously applied until the tail hits the ground so that difference would also be interesting
i think you hit the mark... there is no difference. This is probably why Ishod skates twin tails and Neen skates twin noses.
Thanks.. Great video. I’ve been on 15” for some time now. It’s good once you’re warmed up but generating that power can be tough when tired. Lazy popping a wide wheelbase deck isn’t so easy but I love the other benefits that come from wide. There will always be a trade off no matter what you skate.
Great explanation. This is the reason why I do tricks usually popping tail, but for kickflips I use nose, then my timing is better and it prevents me from flicking to soon which I have a habit of
You make great vids, love them! Just for clarity's sake, the "width" of the wheel base refers to the length of the truck, from bolt to bolt. What you've been referring to in this vid is the "length" of the wheel base, from truck to truck. If the distance is in the direction of travel, its length of the wheelbase. When its perpendicular to the direction of travel its the width of the wheelbase.
Uhhhh… I see, thanks a lot!
We are one step smarter thanks to you.
Two wheelbase measurements?? No, sorry, but the width measurement you’re referring to is called track. Wheelbase is only measured from front to rear.
This video is very well done! There are other factors that follow the same principle e.g a larger diameter wheel creates greater distance from tail of board to the grounds which makes for a steeper pop. This is similar to the concave of the board. It would be great to see more of these videos!
this is why i also consider the length of the board when i buy em, and not just the width
Another excellent video! Can't wait until you release a full skateboarding physics game/simulation!
Thank you for watching as always. You know what, making an interactive simulator is actually interesting. Something that everyone can change sizes and angles of items. Technically it’s possible but I’m too lazy…
@@whythetrick Seeing all the work and effort you are putting in your video, you are not lazy ;) thanks so much, it would be nice one day to know more about the technical tool you are using (just out of curiosity). It seems some of the simulation where done in Blender? Peace
I just found your website which answer all my questions! thank you so much for your work it make my skateboarding progress a lot.
Great simulation! A few thoughts:
As you say (3:25), the second simulation setup varies two things which both affect pop. (1) The length of tail and nose gets longer while (2) wheelbase gets shorter.
Increasing (1) alone will facilitate pop because of the increased lever for the back foot (lever = distance from tail end to back truck). The same force on a longer tail will result in a higher torque applied to the board.
At the same time, decreasing (2) alone will as well facilitate to initiate pop because of the decreased angular momentum of the board around the axis of the back truck (distance between back truck and the front parts of the board, in particular front trucks, is lowered). Lower angular momentum means less resistance ot the torque applied by the back foot using the lever of the tail.
Importantly, increased angular momentum also explains the last result (highest wheel base leads to the highest pop) because the pop does a conversion from rotational kinetic energy (rotation towards ground) to translational kinetic energy (board pops in the air). The board with higher angular momentum (longer wheelbase) can gain a higher rotational kinetic energy at the same rotation speed and will therefore achieve a greater translational energy (=higher pop) once it hits the ground.
You may or may not have done this already but I would love to see simulations like this with rkp trucks (longboard style trucks). With lots of variables, like off set, wheel base, height, angle etc. Especially displaying forces needed to turn in the different cases. That would be awesome ❤
I developed a Physics Simulator where you can simulate skateboard setup of your choise.
Will work on to reflect the wheelbase adjustment function whenever I have time.
whythetrick.io/skateboard-physics-simulator/
I like soul much your video, it's all done in the blender.
sensational!
Very interesting. I got a wider deck with a shorter wheelbase than usual and it feels so much more agile and easier to throw around a park. I feel like I'm heading down a rabbit hole of finding the shortest deck possible now...
When you're manipulating the wheel base you're also changing the tail length, which is what's actually making the changes in pop height and energy required you're describing. You seem to kinda point this out at the 5 minute mark, but I think it was a mistake to attribute these factors to wheel base instead of tail length, because those measurements can be changed independently. If someone were to take your conclusions about how wheelbase affects pop into their next purchase decision, they would be misled. If tail length is equal, a longer wheel base will have the same exact pop angle and therefore will not affect height of pop. The longer wheelbase will require slightly more energy (the board will feel heavier to pop) because the weight of the front trucks is further from the fulcrum, but I doubt this would be very noticeable (edit: I was wrong, it makes a big difference - I now know from experience). Wheelbase's biggest impact on riding is definitely the turning as you described. Wheel base also has minor affects on the air-spin (aka shove-it rotation) by the affect of the trucks' weight's distance from the rotational axis. Overall board length has a much bigger impact on shove-it rotation though.
I think you're correct within the confines of your experiment. with the trucks and wheels being the same, the shorter the wheelbase, the easier it is to pop, but the downside is the lack of ability to pop really high. you're simulations were quite exaggerated, but if you skate 2 boards that are the same, but differ by 0.25 inches in wheelbase, your hypothesis is correct
I know your videos are about tricks and riding basics of skateboarding, but I'd be hella interested into the physics of falling and not hurting yourself badly. Would love to see that kind of stuff in the physics engine ^^
thanks for the comment...
you know, we could always do that but I’ve actually broken 14 of my bones.
i knew how to fall properly not through theory but through pain.
aaaand simulating "how to fall properly" sounds interesting but I don't know if viewers can really do it by only watching it...
just my thoughts. what do you think??
@@whythetrick holy shit 14 bones? :o Good thing you sticked to skateboarding I love the videos haha!
That's true, I don't think that that kind of video would teach too much, but it would still be pretty very interesting ^^ at least in my opinion
Honestly a lot of it is not resisting. Don’t try to catch yourself or “un fall” if yo start goin forward go with it. Don’t stick your arms out. My best luck usually came from tucking my shoulder and sort of rolling over mid air to not face plant.
Great video, that's something much people don't care and only look for the width of the deck, when wheelbase is, sometimes, more important and affects more to your skating. I see much people skates street with long wheelbase, like 15" or so, I skate freestyle, so with me you have the complete oposite, I skate pretty shorter wheelbases, something between 12" and 13.5", just beacuse it helps a lot in freestyle tricks and don't do much ollie tricks, and allways in flat, so I don't care much for the pop
Very very interesting as always 👍🏾
Thank you! Cheers!
Well done👏🏻
This was awesome
beautiful video was wondering about this forawhile
Really great video! liked it a lot
But i think the second part is a bit misleading - initial assumption with fixed tail length and variable wheelbase was actually reality like scenario, but actually simulated scenario does not exist.
I suggest to separate second part into two - fixed deck and variable tail length, fixed tail and variable wheelbase.
Hi interesting video. We just had a long discussion with our vert skating crew about wheelbases. I always feel that in a big ramp a normal 14,5 inch wheel base kind of feels strange and it makes a big difference if you have a 15 or 15,5 inch wheel base. Would be fun to hear the scientific background of this which most likely is connected to the curve radius.
i love it thank you!!!! as always thanks sensei
glad you like it!
but so tired im about to puke.
Thank you!
Please keep this up
Great explanation but kind of unfair test method for the pop. You should have made the same size nose and tail for every deck and change only the wheel base. For example a 6.3" tail, a 7" nose and the wheel base in increments of 1/2" maybe from 13.5" up to 15"
All the difference in Pop seem to be rooted in the geometry of the longer tail. Smaller angle means less distance and energy to the pop. I dont understand why you link this effect to the wheelbase.
Turns out, that seems to be the case. Although I could've shorten the length of decks, but they are generally the same/similar, right? Instead, decks seem to share the same length while they have different wheelbase. The ones you saw in this video are obviously exaggerated but essentially that's how they are: the same length of decks, different locations of trucks.
Experimenting on different deck length would also be interesting though. Thanks!
@@whythetrick i dont mind same/different deck length. I dont think it makes a lot of difference.
I tried to say, in your experiment, you basically examined how tail lenght impacts the pop (because the tails are different and have different pop angles). The wheelbase does not have much to do with it. You pop with the tail, of course the lenght of the tail is much more relevant than the wheelbase.
A boards concave and wheel size can affect all this or counteract it also
wow.thank you man
It should not be this simple :P
What am I missing?
Please share your thoughts!
What if you have a short truck wheel base but very tall trucks? For example how would a Thunder with a height 49mm and a longer wheel base compare to a set of Indys that are 53mm tall but have a shorter wheel base? I wish I could find Indy trucks that only weigh 300 grams.
Short wheelbase:
- pops lighter and lower
Tall trucks:
- needs more energy to pop and pops higher
So…yeah. I think we should find the best combination ourselves.
actually, I think the wheelbase plays a smaller part in the pop, since the wheelbase is only the distance between trucks and that just adds leverage weight to the front of the board the longer the distance of the wheelbase. the pop has more to do with the distance from the truck to leverage point (the crease) of the tail, length of tail and the degree angle of the tail.
Length of tail would definitely change the physics of the pop. Tail and nose usually measured from outside bolt holes to tip. One example of trying to find where wheel base needs to be is just drill new wholes in a board that’s halfway to retirement. Try a shorter wheel base and a longer. Then measure it when you find your sweet spot and you’ll know what wheelbase to find when getting new boards. Just through experience I’d say a good tail length is around 6.5”
The angles of the tail definitely would effect your pop. Some decks tails are so mellow and low it feels like the tip of the tail is level with the rest of the board. Myself I’ve always found Habitat boards to have great concave and perfect pitch to the tail and nose.
Amazing, thanks for it. I'm interesting to build some skateboard trainer for VR and this video visualize points which I don't understand.
Can your feet placement affect the pop angle?sometimes i feel like when i pop with my back foot more close to the bolts i need less energy to make the tail hit the ground but i cant pop very high,when i put my feet on the tip of the tail i feel like a need a lot more energy to pop it(sometimes i even get ghost pop) but in other hand if my board makes contact with the ground i can pop very high
yes, the foot placement does affect the angle of pop.
Just like the length of the tail, if you pop closer to the bolts, you'd need more energy and vise versa.
@@whythetrick You should make a video explaining the difference in the pop with different positions of the back foot. this would be really helpful
I feel like like it takes me more energy to pop with back foot closer to the bolts. You have less leverage. Imagine a lever and you are trying to lift a boulder. do you want a long stick or a short one to move the boulder?
Landed my first Tre Flip after watching this.
The data is incorrect
What effect has the truck width on the turning radius? Would a 180 mm truck have the same radius to a 160 mm truck given that the wheelbase has been changed ?
hmm...
interesting. let's try it sometime.
This is so fucking nerdy 😁 ... Nice format keep it up!👌🌀🔝
Make a video for different big wheels and small wheels.
Sure thing. But it would be looking more or less the same I think: the bigger the higher.
Hey man, which software did you use to simulate the weights dropping on the tail of each skateboard with different wheelbases? Thx for your reply
It’s blender. Please be aware; it’s not 100% accurate.
Do you have thoughts on how wheelbase might effect pumping in a ramp? I feel faster on a bigger wheelbase.
I do have some thoughts. Calculating it and displaying it in a 3D model is just a nightmare… but I will try! Thanks for the comment!
How did you create the side tilting/compression? Can you share the unity righ for the deck please?
Haha sorry no can do.
Not saying this isn't true because it is but wouldn't tail and nose measurements and carving (design) also have a consideration of effect
That pop simulation seems inaccurate.. A board with a shorter wheelbase is going to have a shorter overall deck as well. Just something i noticed, idk why but you shortened the decks for the steering radius part
Guess you are right. I should have shortened it to be accurate but I think the overall deck size usually doesn’t change much in reality, does it?
@@whythetrick there is no standard lenght. It would not make Sense to have a big rider with wide stance riding the same board as a small one.
Would it be possible to make a video guide regarding the boards wheelbase+trucks combo? in other words, the benefits of matching a long/short wheelbase with a thunder, indy or ace truck while also taking the height of the trucks into account.
It wouldnt have to be a super advanced guide, but more like a push in the right direction/suggestion, as I can't find any information on this matter and I don't get why its almost like a tabu subject, but in short what trucks fit a long wheelbase like ying & yang or what trucks would demolish the skateboarding experience on a short wheelbase🙏
Look up Ben degros RUclips videos he explains this exactly perfectly. Some trucks make your wheel base shorter and others wider. Depending on which direction you wanna go will ultimately be the deciding factor in which brand of truck would work best in THIS specific regard only
@@paulvawter8205 i know and im well aware of mr degros videos but he didn't want to mention a single combo in any of the videos, as he said the matter was to be obtained personally with experience and time, which I dont really have the budget for, considering the amount of different deck shapes, trucks and wheel diameters.
He is a little too black and white or his videos are and has now chosen to retire from utube
Heelflip flicks, please?
Do you major in 3d art or computer engineering or something? Cuz im getting those vibes
No I studied it myself!
How would wheel base affect speed wobble?
Longer wheelbase = lower wobble frequency
Shorter wheelbase = higher wobble frequency
Think of a short slalom board compared to a longboard. If you tried to go fast and straight with each one, you would experience speed wobble sooner with the shorter board and at a higher frequency than f wobble than with the longboard
Hey, is that Blender, where you build your simulations?
Thanks for the comment. I use blender, three.js and other 3D/web technology and everything.
does it matter how your arms move when u pop any trick
it does. it's actually an interesting topic considering this:
basketball players lift up their arms as high as they can so they can reach higher. but their feet stay close to the ground.
in a hurdle race, they lower their upper bodies to raise their feet higher.
would definitely want to talk about this but there are other projects.
please take a moment and think about it.
dayum 2 hella away ahead
hooyah, short wheelbases
I run three 1/8" hard, flat risers per truck to add pop.
Good video, the music is distracting in the first half tho.
hey can you do a video explaining why kickflips and heelflips are so different in terms of physics? and why does heelflips tend to go behind you
interesting. sure thing, will try...
Thank god you commented this,i was figuring out how to do a nollie heels and the board always spins frontside or lands behind me,i think its a weight distribution problem
@@noobg6908 Have you tried leaning more to the back when doing Nollie heels? Also focus on your nollie pop, that should be consistent and comfortable to do
@@ykoV yes and it dindt worked for me,in order for me to do a nollie or sw heel i need to flick horizontally straight off the nose
@@noobg6908 Your board spinning frontside doesn’t have a lot to do with your flick, record yourself and pay attention to your front foot
Science is everywhere
(y) yes
♥️
Hardflips!!!!
This and paul's nine club ted talk
great video but turn the music down man (edit: the second half was way better)
I would like to see a 3d stuff like that on the knees positioning on pop and landing tricks. Im afraid the way u use your knees deals damage on it, unless u r super flexible, but im not a physician and the most brutal knees of skate, Jaws, bend the knees a bit less than u but to same 'dangeours' direction. That guy makes my brain explode, cause this knees' bend dispite is ugly af, appears to be something that really destroy the knees, but somehow its like that guy has super inhuman knees.
Please translat3 this vídeo in protuguese Brazil 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I really wish I'm familiar with Portuguese.
I will try to find a way but meanwhile, please use the auto translate.
@@whythetrick tanck's
Please explain different pinching for ledge tricks!!
This is J.E.S.C! Japanese Engineering Skateboard Classes !
Kkk
This is so wrong. If you want more info dm me.
hard to understand you sometimes
Yeah my ex always told me that.
@@whythetrick I can see why lol 😆