Many principles of Max-OT has stood the test of time. Perhaps not necessary to train to failure at 4-6 reps, you can leave 1-2 reps in the tank on each set and then have a higher chance of recovering from 6-9 sets for a muscle group. Training a muscle group every 5-7 days might also be required if you’re doing 6-9 sets. We could probably go in the complete opposite direction and do everything in our power to reduce fatigue and thus allow a higher frequency. What the data shows us is that a range of frequencies can "work", but that it’s not only highly individual but also the interplay with all the other training variables. See my most recent article to learn more: www.borgefagerli.com/blog/muscle-growth-plateau-troubleshooting-guide
Did you and Cliff have experience with partials especially on muscle groups Like Side rear Delts and Back? Normal lateral raises feels strange. In my opinion the cable lenghten biased variant feels way better i wonder if this can make an huge Impact on the gainz
46:02 interesting. Greg nuckols has the theory that when muscle stop growing in advanced people its time to do metabolic work short Rest stuff, because he think its an bioenergetic thing like carpillar density mitochandrial thing which if it not enough adapted doesent allow your muscle to comtinue to grow
That could be *one* factor, yes - my gut feeling says that this is a pathway where Myo-reps tends to reactivate dormant muscle growth in the advanced lifters.. Other factors are motor recruitment, as the lower of the highest threshold fibers are now probably maxed out, so both strategies to reach the highest of the high threshold fibers, as well as optimising the stimulus:fatigue ratio would be some viable strategies.
That’s what the entire conversation is about. Simply being willing to systematically try different training variables and see how that individual responds instead of getting stuck on the science - you have to try to consider the interplay between the training variables. Stimulus-fatigue-adaptation balancing these and also removing constraints. I have an article coming up digging deeper into this, if you sign up for my newsletter (see my homepage).
@@CoachBorgeFagerli Ah I see, so it was more so the individualising aspect what he changed and not one single variable. When he before only went by the "science" but now instead he accounts for clients being more individuals with different needs. I will for sure subscribe to your newsletter. Thank you borge, it was a great listen.
Is there any indicator how you know how you should train? I got crazy doms in calfes and Harmstrings. Is this in indicator that i shouldnt train this muscle with lower Volume or even lower frequency? Some people they this is a good sign for typ 2fibers. But ITS weird this muscle groups are my weakest.
Yeah, constant DOMS probably means you should look at some of your training variables. Stimulus = growth, fatigue and muscle damage = inflammation and pain. You should seek to optimise stimulus and manage fatigue better. Reducing volume, rep ranges, keep more reps in reserve, change your exercises or execution (avoid full ROM for that muscle group), adding more rest days just off the top of my head.
@@CoachBorgeFagerli i wondering ibjust can do 3 Sets calfes on the stair with a weighted vestvor Just bodyweight near or to failure and got sore forbi think easy 5 6 days. I was wondering If that Low Volume IS enough to grow
47:38 3x30 reps? Are this still give you a real Hypertrophy response? Because if you do 3sets 30 with same weight its maybe your 40 50 rep max and at least the last 2 sets are far away from failure
Have Seen Sometimes Guys which trains for maybe a decade with average or below average muscle gainz which explode after you Coached them? Maybe 3 to 5kg new muscle in about 1 years Bulk or even more?
@@ew-zd1th Volume, proximity to failure, frequency, nutrition strategies (stop doing extreme cut/bulk cycles), circadian rhythm optimisation, sleep optimisation, stress management just off the top of my head. It really depends on the individual. This is actually a great topic for my next newsletter 👍🏻
@@CoachBorgeFagerli Thank you. I Wonder If you See an Trend in Some specific Things in this example (after 10years gaining around 3kg pure muscle) Some people say Higher Volume get the better gainz Like Geoffrey Schofield other say they do less Like able csabei when you Coached him.
@@ew-zd1th no trends really, it’s about seeing the individual, finding the bottlenecks and optimising. Most are doing too much vokume in my experience.
Love the knowledge Cliff has. Great interview
Enjoyed this one guys! Thanks for having Cliff on Borge.
Thanks! I really enjoyed it, too - will definitely bring him back on again 👍🏻😀
MaxOT - ran that in the early 2000s, Paul Cribb was heavily involved, how things have and kepp changing, thanks guys
Many principles of Max-OT has stood the test of time. Perhaps not necessary to train to failure at 4-6 reps, you can leave 1-2 reps in the tank on each set and then have a higher chance of recovering from 6-9 sets for a muscle group. Training a muscle group every 5-7 days might also be required if you’re doing 6-9 sets. We could probably go in the complete opposite direction and do everything in our power to reduce fatigue and thus allow a higher frequency. What the data shows us is that a range of frequencies can "work", but that it’s not only highly individual but also the interplay with all the other training variables.
See my most recent article to learn more:
www.borgefagerli.com/blog/muscle-growth-plateau-troubleshooting-guide
Fab talk!!
Very interessting talk! love Cliff and perfect combination with u borge
Thanks, we had a nice flow to the conversation here - very fun to talk to such an experienced and intelligent guy!
What a guest! big fan of Cliff... Thanks for bringing him up Borge!
He’s definitely the GOAT of natty pro BB coaching!
Did you and Cliff have experience with partials especially on muscle groups Like Side rear Delts and Back?
Normal lateral raises feels strange. In my opinion the cable lenghten biased variant feels way better i wonder if this can make an huge Impact on the gainz
I don’t think partials are a game changer for muscle growth, no.
46:02 interesting. Greg nuckols has the theory that when muscle stop growing in advanced people its time to do metabolic work short Rest stuff, because he think its an bioenergetic thing like carpillar density mitochandrial thing which if it not enough adapted doesent allow your muscle to comtinue to grow
That could be *one* factor, yes - my gut feeling says that this is a pathway where Myo-reps tends to reactivate dormant muscle growth in the advanced lifters.. Other factors are motor recruitment, as the lower of the highest threshold fibers are now probably maxed out, so both strategies to reach the highest of the high threshold fibers, as well as optimising the stimulus:fatigue ratio would be some viable strategies.
I was interested in what changes he made to have more succes with clients after having the smaller guys on shows. Or did I somehow miss the answer?
That’s what the entire conversation is about. Simply being willing to systematically try different training variables and see how that individual responds instead of getting stuck on the science - you have to try to consider the interplay between the training variables. Stimulus-fatigue-adaptation balancing these and also removing constraints. I have an article coming up digging deeper into this, if you sign up for my newsletter (see my homepage).
@@CoachBorgeFagerli Ah I see, so it was more so the individualising aspect what he changed and not one single variable.
When he before only went by the "science" but now instead he accounts for clients being more individuals with different needs.
I will for sure subscribe to your newsletter.
Thank you borge, it was a great listen.
Is there any indicator how you know how you should train? I got crazy doms in calfes and Harmstrings. Is this in indicator that i shouldnt train this muscle with lower Volume or even lower frequency? Some people they this is a good sign for typ 2fibers. But ITS weird this muscle groups are my weakest.
Yeah, constant DOMS probably means you should look at some of your training variables. Stimulus = growth, fatigue and muscle damage = inflammation and pain. You should seek to optimise stimulus and manage fatigue better. Reducing volume, rep ranges, keep more reps in reserve, change your exercises or execution (avoid full ROM for that muscle group), adding more rest days just off the top of my head.
@@CoachBorgeFagerli i wondering ibjust can do 3 Sets calfes on the stair with a weighted vestvor Just bodyweight near or to failure and got sore forbi think easy 5 6 days. I was wondering If that Low Volume IS enough to grow
47:38 3x30 reps? Are this still give you a real Hypertrophy response? Because if you do 3sets 30 with same weight its maybe your 40 50 rep max and at least the last 2 sets are far away from failure
He specifically says that he will do some crazy stuff, one of the mechanisms might be a better mind-muscle connection.
Have Seen Sometimes Guys which trains for maybe a decade with average or below average muscle gainz which explode after you Coached them? Maybe 3 to 5kg new muscle in about 1 years Bulk or even more?
All the time. Well, 5kg is a lot of muscle mass, but 2-3kg is quite common, with a 20-30% increase in most exercises.
@@CoachBorgeFagerli interesting. What did you Change with the Guys?
@@ew-zd1th Volume, proximity to failure, frequency, nutrition strategies (stop doing extreme cut/bulk cycles), circadian rhythm optimisation, sleep optimisation, stress management just off the top of my head. It really depends on the individual. This is actually a great topic for my next newsletter 👍🏻
@@CoachBorgeFagerli Thank you. I Wonder If you See an Trend in Some specific Things in this example (after 10years gaining around 3kg pure muscle) Some people say Higher Volume get the better gainz Like Geoffrey Schofield other say they do less Like able csabei when you Coached him.
@@ew-zd1th no trends really, it’s about seeing the individual, finding the bottlenecks and optimising. Most are doing too much vokume in my experience.