Thanks for watching! I've uploaded in an ultra wide resolution this time. Let me know if this is something that you're a like, hate, or couldn't care less about. It's actually trickier to keep up visual consistency with the ultra wide as some games don't support it. Don't forget to subscribe :) Edit: Many of you have subscribed, so thank you! I hope to be working on something new soon. Maybe something Dying Light related?... we shall see.
I recently played Sifu and it's honestly the advanced evolution of this kind of combat. It gives you that feeling of fighting off 10 guys at once like you're Batman while also still being deep and challenging enough that you don't just feel like you're mashing counter the whole fight. Dodging, weaving, parrying, and counterattacking felt like an expanded version of the simple counter button in these other games. While it feels a little Sekiro-like with stun gauges and parries, I always had Batman on the back of my mind when playing through it. Would love to see that system in more games
@@mark-gj4mb Sifu is an excellent game. Definitely among my favourite combat systems. The posture component is very Sekiro, but the slip evade aspect is such a great evolution I'm genuinely shocked we've not seen more clones of the combat since Never really got a Batman feel from it myself, but I'm sure it would fit a future Batman game if ever we get one.
@@TheJiffy But Sifu doesn’t have a posture system, you might be confusing with Absolved that’s made by the same studio. Sifu feels more like other freeflow games you mentioned like Sleeping dogs. It just doesn’t have a Counter bottom
@wacky-physics7506 Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t posture mean when you have different “stances” each with its own types of attacks and such. Isn’t that what posture mean? I could be wrong and misunderstand the English word
@@luccasalomone4063 Language wise it means how strong and steadily you stand, the word you'r describing is more like stance. Gameplay wise, posture is just a seperate healthbar which stuns the enemy when it's empty
@@TheJiffy The reason no other game has the nemesis system is because they managed to get it patented so no other game are legally allowed to use it until 2035. I think its crazy that they managed to get a gameplay system patented It would have been like if WB after the matrix said no one is allowed to do a 360 degree shot in a movie for the next 20 years. The gaming industry more than any other industry builds upon each other because one studio figures out a problem that has been plaguing the industry for a long time, but they still borrowed systems that 10 other studios figured out problems to before them. The industry couldn't even agree on how to universally deal with third person shooting until the 360/PS3 era. Which is why third person shooters from the PS2 or older feels all over the place and have weird controls.
it's because wb decided to own the rights to that gameplay system so games couldn't use it after that (another reason why wb going bankrupt would be great) i think ac odyssey was the only game that had the nemesis system before it was patented, ac valhalla kind of had it but it was clearly re-worked.
@@TheJiffy Neither, it's illegal to use until 2035, which should be an illegal practice, if you can't copyright chords, you can't copyright mechanics for longer than like 3 years or whatever the average time is to make a game from scratch.
@@lidge1994 Take it with a slight grain of salt as I'm not a legal expert in any way. This is more of a layman's understanding of how they managed to get it patented it in first place. Which was that the people who gave it to them don't understand game development. I know they got the patent. But actually think if a gaming company was willing to do it. They could put it their game, WB would then sue and I think more than likely the studio who went up against them would win and WB would lose the patent. As the lawyers could simply point out "yes they came up with the spesific nemisis system." But other games have had lesser versions of NPCs remembering what you have done. And more to the point. WB Montreal themselves took gameplay systems from other games, it's not like every single gameplay system they did was original. Any competent team of lawyers would be able to do the research and point out all the gameplay system they borrowed. But it would be expensive to go to trial so instead studios would rather just wait.
Before the Freeflow system of Arkham series, there was the Free Form system of Prince of Persia Warrior Within which gave the player a full control over the combat, much more than any game to this day maybe...
Back in the day many games had this. The combat where you have to learn controls, different combos and sometimes even make your own movesets (hello God Hand). But nowadays people negligibly call it "old controls". Now the general playerbase don't bother learning the game and just wants to press "Y" to watch fancy moves doing the most of the job for them.
I used to love that! Not foolproof (Bladedancers/Siluhettes (sp?)/Crowmasters be like...) but Raiders and Keepers were SUCH fair game. The music made everything fit better!
It’s crazy cause I don’t hate the souls combat but however it’s been more over saturated and around for more than the free flow combat as of today yet is almost like devoid of criticism for some reason lol
The issue with that is most devs don't get what makes it good, i played tons of games with this style of combat both by From Software and other devs and it's a huge difference when it's done right. I understand why many people don't like it, but the system is not bad it's just hard to replicate properly. As a fan of these games i agree tho. Ghost of Tsushima got some elements off of it and made one of the best combats i've ever seen, but for every Ghost of Tsushima you have like 20 AC Odysseys. I'm not saying GoT is Souls btw just that there was some inspiration there
Every game nowadays are trying to be Dark Souls. You attack, wait for stamina bar to fill up, dodge, wait again, die. Rinse and repeat. This combat mechanic is not for me.
@@BuryTheLight-tds i mean did they ever really do that? Everything always felt like a clone of something else, you'd have games that changed enough to be respected for its twist on the formula but it was still derivative, once in a while you'd see something new in AAA games but it was rare.
Some more memorable mentions of games that took inspiration from Arkham series people tend to forget about: Remember Me (By Dont Nod Studio) The Amazing Spider Man 1 & 2 games Insomniac's Marvel's Spider-Man games Assassin's Creed 3 (which has best combat out of all AC games)
Yes! Always found it extremely annoying how THIS was the system the industry let fall by the wayside, while being completely okay with regurgitating the same 2-3 Soulsborne combat styles for nearly every action RPG under the sun. Nothing wrong with Soulsborne combat, mind you. But as a personal preference? I'll take something with more visual flair and player expression through takedowns, gadgets, tools and satisfying, flowing animations, over a system that's way more utilitarian than flashy. I'm glad Insomniac's keeping the spirit of free-flow somewhat alive through Spidey, and I hope more games circle back to this type of combat in the future. Ghost of Tsushima is an honorable mention for me as well. While not exactly free-flowing and combo-multiplier-oriented, it still has that satisfying mix of smooth animations, executions/counters, and managing different enemy types using different gadgets (or in this case, stances). In general, I just vastly prefer combat systems that are more about rhythm, flow and managing different enemy types, rather than pattern recognition and waiting for stamina recharges. Big reason why I enjoyed GOW Ragnarok's combat so much more than 2018's. Absolute blast to switch between diff weapons and get into a flow state. Especially in Valhalla.
dude, these vids are amazing. Professional, and very entertaining, and you don't beat around the point. Really hope you keep it up and your channel grows!
The first insomniac Spider-Man was a good take on the system even tho it was lacking a lot in comparison to City and Knight specifically. Miles' game was a big leap in the right direction with the way his Venom abilities influenced his finishers and vice versa, Miles does a lot less damage so you end up use those more often and the enemies being a little more complex made the combat more engaging, when you got in the flow it was amazing. I would probably put it above City but below Knight. Spider-Man 2 took a bit of a step back by changing the way finishers worked back to the first game's approach but i feel it was necessary for boss fights, that being said the new enemy types, increased challenge, new moves and tweaks to how some moves work made it the best imo, there aren't many games with combat as much fun as this, i'm not sure if i would put it above Knight but its damn close.
6:45 correction the free flow combat system has technically only been abandoned by wb and it’s studios as they are the ones who own the patent to use it; any other developer is not allowed to use it as it’s protected by said patent Side note, camouflaj studios recently adapted the combat system for vr in Batman Arkham shadow but they too are under the corporate umbrella of wb
I'm not bothered by Batman gliding across the floor the way he does because the combo meter basically requires it. In Mad Max, at least if my memory is correct, the combo counter stays on the screen longer allowing you to simply walk over to enemies. I simply think this sliding Arkham Batman does makes him feel skilled prioritizing that over the feeling of weight and heft to punches. I wouldn't be against a game with a similar, slower and now more grounded style but now that every game feels like a copy of the souls games' (usually) much more measured combat I like being able to return to this character who zips around the arena.
I personally miss character action games/hack and slash, the last DMC was 6 years ago and it felt like the one at the time, in the PS2 era it felt like they were everywhere and imo it's a combat system that can still be good and fun even when it doesn't have the insane depth of DMC. There was Bayonetta 3 but i don't have a Switch.
Honestly i would want arkham like combat in hand to hand combat in next witcher game. Like when you use sword you have different combat, but when you use fist you have that arkham flow.
Cool video dude. LOVED how you listed the games used as footage, never seen that before. Also, one bit of feedback you absolutely don't have to follow if you don't feel like. I'd shorten the intros a bit. Most of the audience you're aiming for already are familiar with the topic if they're clicking on the video, so I'd introduce it a bit quicker and use more time do really dive in the subject. But in any case, I enjoyed the video.
@@Julio_Gomes thanks man. The games footage list was introduced because of how often I was asked what games were used. Just made sense 😁 As for your advice.... I'm always open to feedback. So it is appreciated 😁. I often struggle to cut scripts down because I fear I ramble on a bit. But then I get stuck with everything not flowing correctly. I'll work at it. Thanks man 👍
@@TheJiffy For sure man, do what you think works best and what you have most fun saying. Personally I don't see rambling as a problem as long as the subject of the ramble is topical lol, you know?
I absolutely love the free flow combat. Hitting that counter attack is just awesome. I first experienced it in Sleeping Dogs, then Shadow of Mordor then the amazing Batman games and finished off with Mad Max. I love it so much I have these games on both Steam and Xbox and always revisit them. I have too many different versions of the Batman games it's hard to keep count. The Spiderman games on current and last Gen consoles have very similar combat, just different buttons and the Amazing Spiderman Games is also very similar, and of course I have multiple copies of these 😁Fingers crossed this type of combat makes a return. I'm not going to hold my breath. Good video, subbed.
@@Cheezfriend Ahhh yes, Spider-Man games. I was tempted to include them, but the lack of a counter mechanic and instead just having dodge made me consider it too far removed. But yes, definitely similarities. Thanks for watching and subbing 😁
@@TheJiffy I’m sorry to repeat this point, but freeflow combat really doesn’t mean that it has to have a counter It means a combat system where you enter a “flow” state and seamlessly “move through enemies”. That’s the core of what made the Batman Arkham combat what it is. The combat would work exactly the same even if the triangle “dodged” instead of countered. With this in mind, freeflow isn’t as “abandoned” as you might think. There is less of it yes, but it’s no where near gone. I’m excited for Ghost of Yotei because it should be the next high profile game with the freeflow combat system
The actual term for evolving backwards is actually just Evolving Backwards. Devolution refers to when a central authority grants more power and/or responsibility to a lower regional authority, so it doesn't have to get invested as much etc.; it essentially means the opposite of involve. A notable example is the United Kingdom that has devolved legislature and governments under the Westminster institutions for Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
That’s not the only meaning of devolution and many words have more than one use case or meaning. It also refers to the idea that something can evolve backwards to a more primitive state. Or the degeneration of anything to a worse form.
@@Sumunuhriginal Indeed, but no such definition exists for devolve in any proper dictionary or the Encyclopaedia Britannica and every instance of the word just uses it to mean delegation of power to a lower authority; the only other meanings I'm aware of is that it means to depend on (someone/something) or to roll. The correct word for backwards evolution would still be backwards evolution, although you can alternatively use degenerate or de-evolve.
If the combat system is fun, it's good. It's that simple. It doesn't need to be overly complex, nor do you need to justify your enjoyment of it. Freeflow was a brilliant system, that actually should have been used in more games. It perfectly captured the "easy to use, hard to master" style of design. I absolutely love it. Also, I completely agree regarding Mad Max. Those punches feel sooo satisfying; that shit is almost primal!
It’s unfortunate that every game these days seemingly has to have RPG elements. Having color tier based loot in a game can’t facilitate this style, Assassin’s Creed, Gotham Knights, Suicide Squad. I mean seriously, who thought that Suicide Squad should be a shooter and not a melee focused game?
I really want to see an upgraded and remaded versión of the combat system of the original trilogy of Prince of Persia ,The free form fighting system was ahead of his time
I really enjoy the quality over quantity of your videos; I've spent far too much time watching videos that cover this, or closely similar subject matter, in triple, or quadruple the time, while still managing to say far less. Your scripts are quick, and concise, while still focusing on many separate games, giving them all there time in the limelight; I hope RUclips feels the same way, and properly recommends this video. It is unfortunate that so many novel concepts in games often lay forgotten, and underused in the medium as a whole, but I have seen some games succeed greatly in bringing back "older" mechanics that once dominated the zeitgeist of gaming in those periods; I suppose its a balance between oversaturation, nostalgia, and genuine value, as to if these unique concepts should be brought back in modern titles; one that I can recall the usage of is the "fixed camera perspective", like from the first resident evil games, and how its been brought back in recent years to good effect by many horror titles.
@OnTheRun_DontTellEm thank you so much! I'm aware many others have done the subject to death, so I wanted to avoid dragging out the topic with highlighting infinitesimal details. You make a good point about the use of the fixed camera perspective. There's hope that we will have a sort of renaissance in a few years. It might all kick off if we ever get a new Middle Earth or Mad Mad game. One can only hope! Thanks for watching!
@TheJiffy I think evade holds the same function as counter, but flavored in Spider-Man's fighting style. Especially with the spider sense animation and slight slowdown. There is also an unlockable web counter for ranged enemies, which makes them way more manageable in group combat scenarios. I do think Spidey holds his own better when guns get involved, and other than literal forced stealth scenarios, he isn't pushed into predator type combat when there are ranged enemies. Don't get me wrong, there are significant differences that make the Arkham version engaging in other ways. Like, a little recon and setup can go a long way toward evening the odds before you get into a brawl with Batman, where Spidey is generally so OP he can just jump in without a care. But I think it's overall fair to say Insomniac has more or less adopted and adapted the FreeFlow system for their games.
@@ThePieareround I agree with this, To suggest that Freeflow is defined by having a counter prompt or not is silly and very limiting to what actually defines Freeflow combat
My favorite combat systems in gaming are easily Batman Arkham games, Sekiro, RDR2, and Sifu Edit: I forgot about Sleeping Dogs and how brutal you could be
Thanks! Not familiar with Remember Me, so I'll take your word for it 😁 Interesting you called Sekiro "Soul-like combat". Souls-like and Sekiro-like are very different to me. But either way... yes.
@@TheJiffyRemember Me really only has freeform combat temporarily when the Sensen Fury ability is active. Otherwise the game's combat has more of vague similarity to Godhand of all things, with player constructed combo sequences that give bonuses like health regen and ability cooldown reduction when completed, with Bayonetta-style Dodge Offset allowing you to dodge without resetting your current string.
@@GTCrunch there certainly are similarities. I had considered that, while writing, but so much of AC's combat *feels* different to freeflow. Maybe it's the speed at which everything is happening?
Not quite. They really only introduced it in AC3. Prior it was this very stilted “Perry system” where you wait to counter to break enemy guard What makes freeflow combat “freeflow” is you “feeely flow” through enemies. Moving from target to target (instead of waiting around to counter). So look at AC3 or Ghost of Tsushima.
4:00 nah I think it's pretty universal that batman jumping 7 feet in the air and 12 feet accross the room to punch a dude in his tummy is goofy. Unless his boots are capable of delivering a boost to his jump it's just stupid.
@@TheJiffy Tbf Batman is expertly trained in every single martial art. That would include capoeira which is known as dance fighting. Knowing that and then seeing him back handspring between enemies and somersault kick them makes it make a bit more sense. At the end of the day though it’s a game and what plays good should take precedent over what is realistic in an arcade action game imo.
I don't play enough new games to know how "pervasive" a combat system is. People talk like FreeFlow combat swept the entire industry and designers weren't really doing anything else for a while. Is that true? Because I've only played the specific games you've mentioned, and also that Amazing Spider-Man movie tie-in game, and, like, five or so game franchises out of every game with combat released in that decade doesn't sound overwhelming? I'm sure there must have been plenty of huge games with entirely different combat systems? But again, I dunno, because I haven't played the biggest sample of action games. Was it's dominance exaggerated, or did it really envelope much of the industry then?
@@thisxgreatxdecay Well... Plenty of large titles took a stab at freeflow, or applied an aspect of it into their own games. Obviously there were limited 3rd person action games that suited the system. For example Call of Duty obviously wouldn't have used it. But yeah, it swept the industry to a degree. Other systems remained, and Dark Souls released in 2011 as well, so that influence started to spread not long after Arkham.
Assassin's Creed 3 ruined other free form combat games for me. the animations on that game were so polished and top-notch no game really scratches that itch for me in terms of animation. the list of games in this video almost reach that but AC3's combat really makes me feel a certain way and i love it
i hate free flow combat, i lacks control over your characters actions and feels casual as you can just mash punch button while tha character flies over the screen killing everybody
@@Ink3bg each to their own, my guy. 👍 Sometimes it's nice to not have to execute pinpoint accurate manoeuvres, and instead kinda just zone out and fight.
Abandoned? I find it weird you bring up these games but not Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima and Sifu. Sifu being the BEST iteration of the freeflow combat. What makes a combat system “freeflow” is that you “Freely flow” through enemies, as in go from enemy to enemy as opposed to dealing with them one-at-time as other combat games. Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima, Sifu and other contemporary games DO follow this formula, just evolve and not copy/paste the Arkham combat exacly like the games you listed did. Spider-man evading instead of countering still makes it a freeflow combat system.
@@luccasalomone4063 hmm. Fair points, but I think most would agree that freeflow followed a fairly strict blueprint. Sifu, Ghost, etc they're not generally dubbed as "freeflow", because they hinge on a parry/posture system. Spider-man is closest, but does away with the counter mechanic. I get what you're saying though. Mad Max etc al adopted but adapted the freeflow blueprint with other aspects like the fury meter for example. I don't think it's fair to call them copy/paste. There's enough there for them to receive high recognition.
@@TheJiffy As I said in a different comment here, what makes Freeflow combat what it is it’s not if it has a counter prompt or not. It’s the “Flow state” of moving from enemy to enemy. This combat system is very fitting for games with the player character fighting a large group of enemies at the same time WHILE feeling “grounded” and “realistic” compared to Hack&Slash games. GoT, Sifu and Spider-man are squarely in the freeflow combat. It using an evade prompt or having a stance system doesn’t change that. If a new Arkham game had a stance a system, but everything else is the same, it doesn’t seas to be freeflow combat
haven't played ghost of tsushima, but sifu is completely different and spider-man is like a completely broken, janky and unpolished version of the arkham combat. as you yourself rightfully pointed out, freeflow combat is all about moving from one enemy to another and back after a single punch, without ever focusing on a single enemy for more than that at a time. in sifu, you are mostly fighting single dudes for longer periods of time (longer is generous, it's usually just a few seconds but you get my point) to build up their structure (or at least you should be if you're good at the game) while blocking/parrying/dodging hits from others, letting you potentially instantly take them down in the process. it's a completely different system. in arkham knight, you're constant thought in the back of your mind is "who should i take out next and how", then you leap towards them. in sifu, your constant flow of thought is a bit more complicated, it's more like "ok now i can use this stunned dude to throw into that crowd over there, that should slow them down for a bit while i take care of this big dude over here" etc. which, don't get me wrong, i love it, but it just doesn't have the same sense of flow that the arkham games have. nobody has truly done it like rocksteady ever since arkham knight. again, haven't played GoT so maybe that will change my opinion. and as for spider-man, i really don't think i should have to explain myself here, it's just a worse arkham combat in every way. sure, it's technically freeflow, but it's just bad. the fact that you can refill your health midway into a fight shows how little confidence the devs have in their own system to work flawlessly
@@braevinmaund1210 By your explanation as to why Sifu isn’t freeflow then Mad Max and Shadow of Mordor aren’t freeflow as well, since you don’t one punch enemies down in those games like with Batman. Sifu is Free flow because you “FREE FLOW” through a group of enemies at the same time. You cannot afford to spend more than a second with one enemy. Sifu is just a more advanced version of the Freeflow combat. And Spider-Man combat is bad? What? It’s not as in depth as Arkham Knight yes, but it has a perfectly well crafted combat system. I really don’t see how it’s bad in any way. You pointing out that you can heal mid fight as an example of why is bad is extremely silly since you loose meter to takedown enemies, it’s a gameplay trade off . Is Resident Evil 4 combat bad because you can pause the action and heal yourself at any moment? See how silly that reasoning is. Look up well made combat videos on Spider-man 2018, it’s not bad at all.
@@luccasalomone4063 spider-man's combat is very unreliable and janky. i'm not even talking about mechanics. i'm talking about it feeling very wonky and the animations being extremely jumpy and the controls feeling bad. the takedown animations don't seamlessly connect with your attacks like in arkham for example. even asylum was 10x more polished. look, i'm not an expert, so all i'm gonna say is "it feels bad". if you like it, great. i just don't think it's anywhere near being as good as arkham. hence why i do think nobody's done it like them since knight. (edit: to get a sense of what i mean, if you've played the other characters in challenge maps in arkham knight, a lot of them don't feel as "flowy" as batman himself (not batgirl, i love you, babs). i guess that's what spider-man's combat feels like to me, just 100% worse) mad max, i haven't played yet, so i can't speak on that. shadow of mordor, sure, it's less freeflow in the sense that you can focus on one enemy for longer, but the fact that it's so simple by nature and not nearly as complex as sifu's amazing combat in a way makes it feel more like a worse arkham in a way, e.g. more freeflow, if you get what i'm trying to say? but look, you're right, if you say that by my logic, it shouldn't be considered freeflow either, then fair enough, but i mean it's really just subjective. i really like sifu. but i like it precisely because it doesn't really feel as simple as arkham combat. it requires way more skill and once you get there, it feels so good to play, but for very different reasons than arkham. and that to me is i guess the defining factor.
@@secretworldcomics I'm finding that freeflow combat as a term is somewhat divisive when it comes to it's origin. AC certainly had an influence, but the 3 games highlighted plus the Arkham games have the greatest impact on the industry as far as I'm concerned.
I was one of those few too! I never liked how Batman locked on to someone and just kinda slid across the screen towards them if they were far away. I kept waiting with each entry for them to get rid of that but Rocksteady never did and it stays even in Knight. Oddly enough I think Spiderman ps4 did a good job fixing this issue, making it so you don’t lock onto enemies super far away and have to make your way towards them. Funnily though I’d argue it makes more sense for Spiderman to bounce around like that than any other character.
@@kmaximusconnor3665 Ha! I completely agree with you, including the part about spider-man. Him zipping about makes total sense, but I always saw batman as more of a brute. Odd their suited styles seem inverted. Glad to know I'm not alone 😁
Yeah allowing you to chose your targets with the web zip was really good too! If this combat system was ever revived for a new Batman game I think they could rework the bat grapple in these ones to work more like the web zip except still pulling enemies towards you instead of you towards them
The best combat system to me is anything similar to Sifu, where you have full control over your moves. The problem with Arkhams combat system other than the flying around the arena like you're the Flash is that the animations were random therefore it was hard to gauge whether or not you should counter or strike. So you end up in situations where Batman is doing a flip kick as opposed to a faster animation and now you get hit.
@@wyattanderson1997 YES! I'd settle for freeflow combat in any game, but John Wick? 100% YES! There's a game that's been announced called "SPINE" that has some half decent looking gun-fu combat. Not sure about it at the moment, but could be a precursor, who knows.
They'll have me killed for this. But if you want a good example of john wick style gun fu combat, play resident evil 6. That's how a john wick games should play
I don't like how Batman teleports either, and my biggest problem with that combat system in Arkham was it seemed as long as nobody had a knife you could spam parry with no punishment or delay, and so skill or at least timing really meant nothing and it felt more like watching a cutscene than being in control
Am I the only one who's really getting tired of this "parry" focused style combat? Everything is based on timing to the point where that's the only skill you really need in a combat game these days. I wish devs put more of a focus on knowlodge and decision making instead of just being quick, something akin to Kingdom Come Deliverance, but more accessible.
@@Julio_Gomes personally, I love Sekiro and many games that have taken inspiration from it. But it's at risk of oversaturating the market. I thought For Honour would be a template more Devs would use. Apparently not.
I believe Spider-man has a great version of the Freeflow combat. But a huge disappointment was seeing Spider-man 2 have a Perry system, that just kills the flow of the combat. I was beyond let down. It just breaks the flow of the Freeflow combat
> Doesn't like Arkham's combat because of him "pirouetting and jumping all over the place" > Batman being a 1.88 (6ft 2) 95kg (210lbs) master of all martial arts somehow not conveying a power fantasy to the player🤨???
Thanks for watching!
I've uploaded in an ultra wide resolution this time. Let me know if this is something that you're a like, hate, or couldn't care less about. It's actually trickier to keep up visual consistency with the ultra wide as some games don't support it.
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Edit: Many of you have subscribed, so thank you! I hope to be working on something new soon. Maybe something Dying Light related?... we shall see.
Looks sick
@@icarusgaming6269 thank you!
Det editing and everything was very high quality! Good job 👌🏻
I recently played Sifu and it's honestly the advanced evolution of this kind of combat. It gives you that feeling of fighting off 10 guys at once like you're Batman while also still being deep and challenging enough that you don't just feel like you're mashing counter the whole fight. Dodging, weaving, parrying, and counterattacking felt like an expanded version of the simple counter button in these other games. While it feels a little Sekiro-like with stun gauges and parries, I always had Batman on the back of my mind when playing through it. Would love to see that system in more games
@@mark-gj4mb Sifu is an excellent game. Definitely among my favourite combat systems. The posture component is very Sekiro, but the slip evade aspect is such a great evolution I'm genuinely shocked we've not seen more clones of the combat since
Never really got a Batman feel from it myself, but I'm sure it would fit a future Batman game if ever we get one.
@@TheJiffy
But Sifu doesn’t have a posture system, you might be confusing with Absolved that’s made by the same studio.
Sifu feels more like other freeflow games you mentioned like Sleeping dogs. It just doesn’t have a Counter bottom
@@luccasalomone4063 It does, the white bar under the enemies' health that when empty can give you an instant takedown
@wacky-physics7506
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t posture mean when you have different “stances” each with its own types of attacks and such. Isn’t that what posture mean? I could be wrong and misunderstand the English word
@@luccasalomone4063 Language wise it means how strong and steadily you stand, the word you'r describing is more like stance. Gameplay wise, posture is just a seperate healthbar which stuns the enemy when it's empty
we also lost the nemesis system : (
@@B31NG I remain hopeful that it's not lost, but just misplaced. Maybe one day it will return.
@@TheJiffy The reason no other game has the nemesis system is because they managed to get it patented so no other game are legally allowed to use it until 2035. I think its crazy that they managed to get a gameplay system patented It would have been like if WB after the matrix said no one is allowed to do a 360 degree shot in a movie for the next 20 years. The gaming industry more than any other industry builds upon each other because one studio figures out a problem that has been plaguing the industry for a long time, but they still borrowed systems that 10 other studios figured out problems to before them. The industry couldn't even agree on how to universally deal with third person shooting until the 360/PS3 era. Which is why third person shooters from the PS2 or older feels all over the place and have weird controls.
it's because wb decided to own the rights to that gameplay system so games couldn't use it after that (another reason why wb going bankrupt would be great)
i think ac odyssey was the only game that had the nemesis system before it was patented, ac valhalla kind of had it but it was clearly re-worked.
@@TheJiffy Neither, it's illegal to use until 2035, which should be an illegal practice, if you can't copyright chords, you can't copyright mechanics for longer than like 3 years or whatever the average time is to make a game from scratch.
@@lidge1994 Take it with a slight grain of salt as I'm not a legal expert in any way. This is more of a layman's understanding of how they managed to get it patented it in first place. Which was that the people who gave it to them don't understand game development.
I know they got the patent. But actually think if a gaming company was willing to do it. They could put it their game, WB would then sue and I think more than likely the studio who went up against them would win and WB would lose the patent. As the lawyers could simply point out "yes they came up with the spesific nemisis system." But other games have had lesser versions of NPCs remembering what you have done. And more to the point. WB Montreal themselves took gameplay systems from other games, it's not like every single gameplay system they did was original.
Any competent team of lawyers would be able to do the research and point out all the gameplay system they borrowed. But it would be expensive to go to trial so instead studios would rather just wait.
Before the Freeflow system of Arkham series, there was the Free Form system of Prince of Persia Warrior Within which gave the player a full control over the combat, much more than any game to this day maybe...
Finally, someone appreciating the GOAT system of WW
Back in the day many games had this. The combat where you have to learn controls, different combos and sometimes even make your own movesets (hello God Hand). But nowadays people negligibly call it "old controls". Now the general playerbase don't bother learning the game and just wants to press "Y" to watch fancy moves doing the most of the job for them.
Yep, it was great!
The newer God Of War games still have them.
Yeah WW combat had insane potential. I still remember the combat trailer from 2004
I used to love that! Not foolproof (Bladedancers/Siluhettes (sp?)/Crowmasters be like...) but Raiders and Keepers were SUCH fair game. The music made everything fit better!
The games industry making the Souls style of combat the default instead of free flow is the single greatest tragedy in modern gaming.
As someone who isn't a huge fan Souls style combat, I agree.
It’s crazy cause I don’t hate the souls combat but however it’s been more over saturated and around for more than the free flow combat as of today yet is almost like devoid of criticism for some reason lol
When Rolling is your mainline of defense yet you have a Shield...
WHAT JEDI ROLLS LIKE THEY ARE MAKING BREAD
And most of them are not even good at it
The issue with that is most devs don't get what makes it good, i played tons of games with this style of combat both by From Software and other devs and it's a huge difference when it's done right. I understand why many people don't like it, but the system is not bad it's just hard to replicate properly.
As a fan of these games i agree tho. Ghost of Tsushima got some elements off of it and made one of the best combats i've ever seen, but for every Ghost of Tsushima you have like 20 AC Odysseys. I'm not saying GoT is Souls btw just that there was some inspiration there
I think the spiderman games did a great job of evolving this type of combat system
Every game nowadays are trying to be Dark Souls. You attack, wait for stamina bar to fill up, dodge, wait again, die. Rinse and repeat. This combat mechanic is not for me.
Same here, I'd rather go back to the way things were or have developers try to make their own unique combat systems
Same. I played Elden Ring, tried to enjoy it, and that game just didn’t work for me. I miss Arkham combat.
@@BuryTheLight-tds i mean did they ever really do that? Everything always felt like a clone of something else, you'd have games that changed enough to be respected for its twist on the formula but it was still derivative, once in a while you'd see something new in AAA games but it was rare.
Arkham City and Knight are still the peak of free flow. Mad Max, SoM still don't compare.
I agree! I miss not having a stupid healthbar in every game
Some more memorable mentions of games that took inspiration from Arkham series people tend to forget about:
Remember Me (By Dont Nod Studio)
The Amazing Spider Man 1 & 2 games
Insomniac's Marvel's Spider-Man games
Assassin's Creed 3 (which has best combat out of all AC games)
Yes! Always found it extremely annoying how THIS was the system the industry let fall by the wayside, while being completely okay with regurgitating the same 2-3 Soulsborne combat styles for nearly every action RPG under the sun.
Nothing wrong with Soulsborne combat, mind you. But as a personal preference? I'll take something with more visual flair and player expression through takedowns, gadgets, tools and satisfying, flowing animations, over a system that's way more utilitarian than flashy.
I'm glad Insomniac's keeping the spirit of free-flow somewhat alive through Spidey, and I hope more games circle back to this type of combat in the future. Ghost of Tsushima is an honorable mention for me as well. While not exactly free-flowing and combo-multiplier-oriented, it still has that satisfying mix of smooth animations, executions/counters, and managing different enemy types using different gadgets (or in this case, stances).
In general, I just vastly prefer combat systems that are more about rhythm, flow and managing different enemy types, rather than pattern recognition and waiting for stamina recharges. Big reason why I enjoyed GOW Ragnarok's combat so much more than 2018's. Absolute blast to switch between diff weapons and get into a flow state. Especially in Valhalla.
dude, these vids are amazing. Professional, and very entertaining, and you don't beat around the point. Really hope you keep it up and your channel grows!
@@Phantomvoice95 thank you, man! I'm glad my hard work is recognised 😁 I hope so too! Thanks for watching!
With the success of Arkham shadow I hope we can see it in more games
Third person melee combat action games are my favorite. We really don't get enough of them and always get way to many first person games IMO.
The first insomniac Spider-Man was a good take on the system even tho it was lacking a lot in comparison to City and Knight specifically.
Miles' game was a big leap in the right direction with the way his Venom abilities influenced his finishers and vice versa, Miles does a lot less damage so you end up use those more often and the enemies being a little more complex made the combat more engaging, when you got in the flow it was amazing. I would probably put it above City but below Knight.
Spider-Man 2 took a bit of a step back by changing the way finishers worked back to the first game's approach but i feel it was necessary for boss fights, that being said the new enemy types, increased challenge, new moves and tweaks to how some moves work made it the best imo, there aren't many games with combat as much fun as this, i'm not sure if i would put it above Knight but its damn close.
Great video. Love the editing. Keep up the good work and I hope you'll go far
@@AntiChip thank you 😁
6:45 correction the free flow combat system has technically only been abandoned by wb and it’s studios as they are the ones who own the patent to use it; any other developer is not allowed to use it as it’s protected by said patent
Side note, camouflaj studios recently adapted the combat system for vr in Batman Arkham shadow but they too are under the corporate umbrella of wb
@@XenoXuri this is interesting. I was not aware it was patented. Many have pointed out very similar systems that must skirt around infringement.
I'm not bothered by Batman gliding across the floor the way he does because the combo meter basically requires it. In Mad Max, at least if my memory is correct, the combo counter stays on the screen longer allowing you to simply walk over to enemies. I simply think this sliding Arkham Batman does makes him feel skilled prioritizing that over the feeling of weight and heft to punches. I wouldn't be against a game with a similar, slower and now more grounded style but now that every game feels like a copy of the souls games' (usually) much more measured combat I like being able to return to this character who zips around the arena.
Arkham Origins did a good job of extending the combo time so that you can do a short run between combos. The combo timer in Asylum was too short
I personally miss character action games/hack and slash, the last DMC was 6 years ago and it felt like the one at the time, in the PS2 era it felt like they were everywhere and imo it's a combat system that can still be good and fun even when it doesn't have the insane depth of DMC. There was Bayonetta 3 but i don't have a Switch.
Honestly i would want arkham like combat in hand to hand combat in next witcher game. Like when you use sword you have different combat, but when you use fist you have that arkham flow.
@@majorbombas that would be interesting. I'm very curious to see what direction CDPR will take.
This is insanely high effort high quality content for a channel of your size and I fuck with it
@@dafefe4216 glad that it's recognised😁 thanks for watching!
Absolutely a contender for your best vid.
Love the sequel hook at the end ;]
@@BlinJe thanks, brother.
You forgot AC 3
Cool video dude. LOVED how you listed the games used as footage, never seen that before.
Also, one bit of feedback you absolutely don't have to follow if you don't feel like. I'd shorten the intros a bit. Most of the audience you're aiming for already are familiar with the topic if they're clicking on the video, so I'd introduce it a bit quicker and use more time do really dive in the subject.
But in any case, I enjoyed the video.
@@Julio_Gomes thanks man. The games footage list was introduced because of how often I was asked what games were used. Just made sense 😁
As for your advice.... I'm always open to feedback. So it is appreciated 😁.
I often struggle to cut scripts down because I fear I ramble on a bit. But then I get stuck with everything not flowing correctly. I'll work at it. Thanks man 👍
@@TheJiffy For sure man, do what you think works best and what you have most fun saying.
Personally I don't see rambling as a problem as long as the subject of the ramble is topical lol, you know?
I absolutely love the free flow combat. Hitting that counter attack is just awesome. I first experienced it in Sleeping Dogs, then Shadow of Mordor then the amazing Batman games and finished off with Mad Max. I love it so much I have these games on both Steam and Xbox and always revisit them. I have too many different versions of the Batman games it's hard to keep count. The Spiderman games on current and last Gen consoles have very similar combat, just different buttons and the Amazing Spiderman Games is also very similar, and of course I have multiple copies of these 😁Fingers crossed this type of combat makes a return. I'm not going to hold my breath. Good video, subbed.
@@Cheezfriend Ahhh yes, Spider-Man games. I was tempted to include them, but the lack of a counter mechanic and instead just having dodge made me consider it too far removed. But yes, definitely similarities. Thanks for watching and subbing 😁
@@TheJiffy
I’m sorry to repeat this point, but freeflow combat really doesn’t mean that it has to have a counter
It means a combat system where you enter a “flow” state and seamlessly “move through enemies”. That’s the core of what made the Batman Arkham combat what it is. The combat would work exactly the same even if the triangle “dodged” instead of countered.
With this in mind, freeflow isn’t as “abandoned” as you might think. There is less of it yes, but it’s no where near gone. I’m excited for Ghost of Yotei because it should be the next high profile game with the freeflow combat system
The actual term for evolving backwards is actually just Evolving Backwards. Devolution refers to when a central authority grants more power and/or responsibility to a lower regional authority, so it doesn't have to get invested as much etc.; it essentially means the opposite of involve. A notable example is the United Kingdom that has devolved legislature and governments under the Westminster institutions for Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
That’s not the only meaning of devolution and many words have more than one use case or meaning. It also refers to the idea that something can evolve backwards to a more primitive state. Or the degeneration of anything to a worse form.
@@Sumunuhriginal Indeed, but no such definition exists for devolve in any proper dictionary or the Encyclopaedia Britannica and every instance of the word just uses it to mean delegation of power to a lower authority; the only other meanings I'm aware of is that it means to depend on (someone/something) or to roll. The correct word for backwards evolution would still be backwards evolution, although you can alternatively use degenerate or de-evolve.
If the combat system is fun, it's good. It's that simple. It doesn't need to be overly complex, nor do you need to justify your enjoyment of it.
Freeflow was a brilliant system, that actually should have been used in more games. It perfectly captured the "easy to use, hard to master" style of design. I absolutely love it.
Also, I completely agree regarding Mad Max. Those punches feel sooo satisfying; that shit is almost primal!
It’s unfortunate that every game these days seemingly has to have RPG elements. Having color tier based loot in a game can’t facilitate this style, Assassin’s Creed, Gotham Knights, Suicide Squad. I mean seriously, who thought that Suicide Squad should be a shooter and not a melee focused game?
@@Yee-Haw-MMA preaching to the choir, man. I love a good RPG, but Christ, I wish some games would stay in their lane.
I really want to see an upgraded and remaded versión of the combat system of the original trilogy of Prince of Persia ,The free form fighting system was ahead of his time
@@nest4669 completely agree. I'm keen to see how Ubi deliver the sands of time remake (if it ever gets released)
I'd nitpick and say I didn't like Batman's dancing and obscene leaps either
I really enjoy the quality over quantity of your videos; I've spent far too much time watching videos that cover this, or closely similar subject matter, in triple, or quadruple the time, while still managing to say far less. Your scripts are quick, and concise, while still focusing on many separate games, giving them all there time in the limelight; I hope RUclips feels the same way, and properly recommends this video.
It is unfortunate that so many novel concepts in games often lay forgotten, and underused in the medium as a whole, but I have seen some games succeed greatly in bringing back "older" mechanics that once dominated the zeitgeist of gaming in those periods; I suppose its a balance between oversaturation, nostalgia, and genuine value, as to if these unique concepts should be brought back in modern titles; one that I can recall the usage of is the "fixed camera perspective", like from the first resident evil games, and how its been brought back in recent years to good effect by many horror titles.
@OnTheRun_DontTellEm thank you so much! I'm aware many others have done the subject to death, so I wanted to avoid dragging out the topic with highlighting infinitesimal details.
You make a good point about the use of the fixed camera perspective. There's hope that we will have a sort of renaissance in a few years. It might all kick off if we ever get a new Middle Earth or Mad Mad game. One can only hope!
Thanks for watching!
Nice video man 👍
@@damanisincere thanks man 👍
Arkham games have the best combat system. Period.
No. It worked for Arkham. I don't want to see it everywhere
its a great polish combat systemand was a big revolution in gaming but i admit it got repetitive later on.
I agree. It was Revolutionary at that time.
Aren't the Insomniac Spider-Man games essentially similar to this in their combat system?
Spider-man is the closest thing I can think of too. It's only real difference is the use of evading instead of countering.
@TheJiffy I think evade holds the same function as counter, but flavored in Spider-Man's fighting style. Especially with the spider sense animation and slight slowdown. There is also an unlockable web counter for ranged enemies, which makes them way more manageable in group combat scenarios. I do think Spidey holds his own better when guns get involved, and other than literal forced stealth scenarios, he isn't pushed into predator type combat when there are ranged enemies.
Don't get me wrong, there are significant differences that make the Arkham version engaging in other ways. Like, a little recon and setup can go a long way toward evening the odds before you get into a brawl with Batman, where Spidey is generally so OP he can just jump in without a care.
But I think it's overall fair to say Insomniac has more or less adopted and adapted the FreeFlow system for their games.
@@ThePieareround
I agree with this,
To suggest that Freeflow is defined by having a counter prompt or not is silly and very limiting to what actually defines Freeflow combat
great video!
@@The-GameBurrow thank you 😁
The Jiffy needs to try platinum style, Devil May Cry (later) or Godand ;]
My favorite combat systems in gaming are easily Batman Arkham games, Sekiro, RDR2, and Sifu
Edit: I forgot about Sleeping Dogs and how brutal you could be
@@jumpyboi7784 good choices 😁
But not sure about RDR2, I enjoy that game more for its world, than its combat.
@ oh yeah ofc. The best thing about RDR2 is the story and world. I just love how realistic the combat feels
Great video! There was also Remember Me in 2013.
And for your final thoughts, the Souls-like combat is already starting to feel abused
Thanks! Not familiar with Remember Me, so I'll take your word for it 😁
Interesting you called Sekiro "Soul-like combat". Souls-like and Sekiro-like are very different to me. But either way... yes.
@@TheJiffyRemember Me really only has freeform combat temporarily when the Sensen Fury ability is active. Otherwise the game's combat has more of vague similarity to Godhand of all things, with player constructed combo sequences that give bonuses like health regen and ability cooldown reduction when completed, with Bayonetta-style Dodge Offset allowing you to dodge without resetting your current string.
Didn’t Assassin Creed do free flow before Batman?
@@GTCrunch there certainly are similarities. I had considered that, while writing, but so much of AC's combat *feels* different to freeflow. Maybe it's the speed at which everything is happening?
Not quite.
They really only introduced it in AC3.
Prior it was this very stilted “Perry system” where you wait to counter to break enemy guard
What makes freeflow combat “freeflow” is you “feeely flow” through enemies. Moving from target to target (instead of waiting around to counter). So look at AC3 or Ghost of Tsushima.
4:00 nah I think it's pretty universal that batman jumping 7 feet in the air and 12 feet accross the room to punch a dude in his tummy is goofy. Unless his boots are capable of delivering a boost to his jump it's just stupid.
🤣 It really is goofy eh? I hardly see anyone mention it though. I don't know how it was never altered in subsequent entries.
@@TheJiffy Tbf Batman is expertly trained in every single martial art. That would include capoeira which is known as dance fighting. Knowing that and then seeing him back handspring between enemies and somersault kick them makes it make a bit more sense. At the end of the day though it’s a game and what plays good should take precedent over what is realistic in an arcade action game imo.
I don't play enough new games to know how "pervasive" a combat system is. People talk like FreeFlow combat swept the entire industry and designers weren't really doing anything else for a while. Is that true? Because I've only played the specific games you've mentioned, and also that Amazing Spider-Man movie tie-in game, and, like, five or so game franchises out of every game with combat released in that decade doesn't sound overwhelming? I'm sure there must have been plenty of huge games with entirely different combat systems?
But again, I dunno, because I haven't played the biggest sample of action games. Was it's dominance exaggerated, or did it really envelope much of the industry then?
@@thisxgreatxdecay Well... Plenty of large titles took a stab at freeflow, or applied an aspect of it into their own games. Obviously there were limited 3rd person action games that suited the system. For example Call of Duty obviously wouldn't have used it. But yeah, it swept the industry to a degree.
Other systems remained, and Dark Souls released in 2011 as well, so that influence started to spread not long after Arkham.
You should try an old game called ONI it's combat is still unmatched for me
Spiderman ps4 not mentioned?
Assassin's Creed 3 ruined other free form combat games for me. the animations on that game were so polished and top-notch no game really scratches that itch for me in terms of animation. the list of games in this video almost reach that but AC3's combat really makes me feel a certain way and i love it
whats the name of the song that plays at 2:06? also great video
Credits are at the end 😁
But... Far the Days Come by Letter Box
Thanks!
10/10 ending
@@alphaclunk thanks! Finding a good punchy ending to my videos is always something I enjoy 😁
i hate free flow combat, i lacks control over your characters actions and feels casual as you can just mash punch button while tha character flies over the screen killing everybody
@@Ink3bg each to their own, my guy. 👍
Sometimes it's nice to not have to execute pinpoint accurate manoeuvres, and instead kinda just zone out and fight.
Ultrawide Enjoyer. B)
Arkham City came out in 2011.
to be fair not many people played sleeping dogs
thats why we'll never get the sequel
mad max too
@@attackofthecopyrightbots sales figures probably contributed, but the main reason is that United Front were shutdown in 2016. Sad times.
Abandoned?
I find it weird you bring up these games but not Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima and Sifu. Sifu being the BEST iteration of the freeflow combat.
What makes a combat system “freeflow” is that you “Freely flow” through enemies, as in go from enemy to enemy as opposed to dealing with them one-at-time as other combat games.
Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima, Sifu and other contemporary games DO follow this formula, just evolve and not copy/paste the Arkham combat exacly like the games you listed did. Spider-man evading instead of countering still makes it a freeflow combat system.
@@luccasalomone4063 hmm. Fair points, but I think most would agree that freeflow followed a fairly strict blueprint. Sifu, Ghost, etc they're not generally dubbed as "freeflow", because they hinge on a parry/posture system. Spider-man is closest, but does away with the counter mechanic. I get what you're saying though.
Mad Max etc al adopted but adapted the freeflow blueprint with other aspects like the fury meter for example. I don't think it's fair to call them copy/paste. There's enough there for them to receive high recognition.
@@TheJiffy
As I said in a different comment here, what makes Freeflow combat what it is it’s not if it has a counter prompt or not. It’s the “Flow state” of moving from enemy to enemy. This combat system is very fitting for games with the player character fighting a large group of enemies at the same time WHILE feeling “grounded” and “realistic” compared to Hack&Slash games.
GoT, Sifu and Spider-man are squarely in the freeflow combat. It using an evade prompt or having a stance system doesn’t change that. If a new Arkham game had a stance a system, but everything else is the same, it doesn’t seas to be freeflow combat
haven't played ghost of tsushima, but sifu is completely different and spider-man is like a completely broken, janky and unpolished version of the arkham combat. as you yourself rightfully pointed out, freeflow combat is all about moving from one enemy to another and back after a single punch, without ever focusing on a single enemy for more than that at a time. in sifu, you are mostly fighting single dudes for longer periods of time (longer is generous, it's usually just a few seconds but you get my point) to build up their structure (or at least you should be if you're good at the game) while blocking/parrying/dodging hits from others, letting you potentially instantly take them down in the process. it's a completely different system. in arkham knight, you're constant thought in the back of your mind is "who should i take out next and how", then you leap towards them. in sifu, your constant flow of thought is a bit more complicated, it's more like "ok now i can use this stunned dude to throw into that crowd over there, that should slow them down for a bit while i take care of this big dude over here" etc. which, don't get me wrong, i love it, but it just doesn't have the same sense of flow that the arkham games have. nobody has truly done it like rocksteady ever since arkham knight. again, haven't played GoT so maybe that will change my opinion.
and as for spider-man, i really don't think i should have to explain myself here, it's just a worse arkham combat in every way. sure, it's technically freeflow, but it's just bad. the fact that you can refill your health midway into a fight shows how little confidence the devs have in their own system to work flawlessly
@@braevinmaund1210
By your explanation as to why Sifu isn’t freeflow then Mad Max and Shadow of Mordor aren’t freeflow as well, since you don’t one punch enemies down in those games like with Batman.
Sifu is Free flow because you “FREE FLOW” through a group of enemies at the same time. You cannot afford to spend more than a second with one enemy. Sifu is just a more advanced version of the Freeflow combat.
And Spider-Man combat is bad? What? It’s not as in depth as Arkham Knight yes, but it has a perfectly well crafted combat system. I really don’t see how it’s bad in any way. You pointing out that you can heal mid fight as an example of why is bad is extremely silly since you loose meter to takedown enemies, it’s a gameplay trade off . Is Resident Evil 4 combat bad because you can pause the action and heal yourself at any moment? See how silly that reasoning is. Look up well made combat videos on Spider-man 2018, it’s not bad at all.
@@luccasalomone4063 spider-man's combat is very unreliable and janky. i'm not even talking about mechanics. i'm talking about it feeling very wonky and the animations being extremely jumpy and the controls feeling bad. the takedown animations don't seamlessly connect with your attacks like in arkham for example. even asylum was 10x more polished. look, i'm not an expert, so all i'm gonna say is "it feels bad". if you like it, great. i just don't think it's anywhere near being as good as arkham. hence why i do think nobody's done it like them since knight.
(edit: to get a sense of what i mean, if you've played the other characters in challenge maps in arkham knight, a lot of them don't feel as "flowy" as batman himself (not batgirl, i love you, babs). i guess that's what spider-man's combat feels like to me, just 100% worse)
mad max, i haven't played yet, so i can't speak on that. shadow of mordor, sure, it's less freeflow in the sense that you can focus on one enemy for longer, but the fact that it's so simple by nature and not nearly as complex as sifu's amazing combat in a way makes it feel more like a worse arkham in a way, e.g. more freeflow, if you get what i'm trying to say? but look, you're right, if you say that by my logic, it shouldn't be considered freeflow either, then fair enough, but i mean it's really just subjective.
i really like sifu. but i like it precisely because it doesn't really feel as simple as arkham combat. it requires way more skill and once you get there, it feels so good to play, but for very different reasons than arkham. and that to me is i guess the defining factor.
it's a shame free flow combat is basically a thing of the past, now most games are just hack and slash a sponge for 2 minutes
Play Sifu or Ghost of Tsushima
Or just another Soulslike with bs like stamina bars
Umm... Assassin's Creed literally implemented freeflow combat in 2012. 2 years before Mordor
@@secretworldcomics I'm finding that freeflow combat as a term is somewhat divisive when it comes to it's origin. AC certainly had an influence, but the 3 games highlighted plus the Arkham games have the greatest impact on the industry as far as I'm concerned.
Resident evil 4 glt the best tps combat
I was one of those few too! I never liked how Batman locked on to someone and just kinda slid across the screen towards them if they were far away. I kept waiting with each entry for them to get rid of that but Rocksteady never did and it stays even in Knight. Oddly enough I think Spiderman ps4 did a good job fixing this issue, making it so you don’t lock onto enemies super far away and have to make your way towards them. Funnily though I’d argue it makes more sense for Spiderman to bounce around like that than any other character.
@@kmaximusconnor3665 Ha! I completely agree with you, including the part about spider-man. Him zipping about makes total sense, but I always saw batman as more of a brute. Odd their suited styles seem inverted. Glad to know I'm not alone 😁
I love how spiderman kinda gives you more freedom with triangle letting you lock into enemies even from really far away
Yeah allowing you to chose your targets with the web zip was really good too! If this combat system was ever revived for a new Batman game I think they could rework the bat grapple in these ones to work more like the web zip except still pulling enemies towards you instead of you towards them
The best combat system to me is anything similar to Sifu, where you have full control over your moves. The problem with Arkhams combat system other than the flying around the arena like you're the Flash is that the animations were random therefore it was hard to gauge whether or not you should counter or strike. So you end up in situations where Batman is doing a flip kick as opposed to a faster animation and now you get hit.
Hear me out, free flow combat in a john wick game? Yea ot nah?
@@wyattanderson1997 YES! I'd settle for freeflow combat in any game, but John Wick? 100% YES!
There's a game that's been announced called "SPINE" that has some half decent looking gun-fu combat. Not sure about it at the moment, but could be a precursor, who knows.
@TheJiffy heeeeeell yeah!
Red Hood in Arkham Knight says hello
They'll have me killed for this. But if you want a good example of john wick style gun fu combat, play resident evil 6. That's how a john wick games should play
nowadays every game is using soulsbourne combat and i'm tired of it
I don't like how Batman teleports either, and my biggest problem with that combat system in Arkham was it seemed as long as nobody had a knife you could spam parry with no punishment or delay, and so skill or at least timing really meant nothing and it felt more like watching a cutscene than being in control
if you like this kind of combat, you need to play Yakuza games
That is really not the same, Yakuza is a beat-em-up. Those are very different feels
@@Bafo117 I've been slowly making my way through Judgement. I really like the combat in that game. I should return to Yakuza some day.
Devolving
PEAKING DOGS SPOTTED
Ayyyy
Am I the only one who's really getting tired of this "parry" focused style combat?
Everything is based on timing to the point where that's the only skill you really need in a combat game these days. I wish devs put more of a focus on knowlodge and decision making instead of just being quick, something akin to Kingdom Come Deliverance, but more accessible.
@@Julio_Gomes personally, I love Sekiro and many games that have taken inspiration from it. But it's at risk of oversaturating the market. I thought For Honour would be a template more Devs would use. Apparently not.
@TheJiffy Exactly what I had in mind as well. I always thought for honor was a great push in the right direction on that regard.
I believe Spider-man has a great version of the Freeflow combat.
But a huge disappointment was seeing Spider-man 2 have a Perry system, that just kills the flow of the combat. I was beyond let down.
It just breaks the flow of the Freeflow combat
I loved this system. Now they're using souls-like and I don't like it
Arkham City was 2011
Was it? 🤔 *Googles it again*
Oh, yep... you're quite right. My bad! Good catch!
> Doesn't like Arkham's combat because of him "pirouetting and jumping all over the place"
> Batman being a 1.88 (6ft 2) 95kg (210lbs) master of all martial arts somehow not conveying a power fantasy to the player🤨???