Simulation of the Rhode Island nightclub fire using buildingEXODUS V4.0 and SMARTFIRE V4.1
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- buildingEXODUS V4.0 simulation of the Rhode Island nightclub fire. The fire conditions are predicted using SMARTFIRE V4.1. The simulation predicts evacuation through available doors and windows. A number of people perish in this simulation due to the rapidly developing fire. The colour coding of the people indicates the response time band for the occupants. The people coloured red reacted most rapidly, they are on the dance floor. The colour of the floor is an indication of the smoke concentration at head height. The darker the colour, the thicker the smoke at head height. Finally, the body markings on the floor represents where we predict a fatality occured - The animation was generated in 2008
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
I went into a bar/theater the other night and realized that there was only ONE exit from the theater. Its a fire trap and I won't go there anymore.
Ya why the Exit block by the new building it's use to Save people lifes but they built it now but we need give some respect and R.I.P I am from the Philippines btw
I can't believe that 360 managed to get out of there... this kinda gives me the chills because when I look back at other nightclubs I've been too I can't recall being aware of any other exits except the entrance
Was it 130 that died?
Interesting. I never realized that the interior layout of the club was so maze like. It's amazing the death toll wasn't higher.
2. This simulation evidently assumes that people know where all the exits are and that they will always move towards them, as it shows all of the patrons moving only towards doors or windows. In actually, 27 of the 100 victims were found in the areas in the upper left where there are no exits. These people evidently moved there looking for exits and became trapped.
What are the people in white? Are they nightclub workers? They should have exited via the left side of the building and taken patrons with them instead of contributing to the jam at the entrance.
Yes. The smoke was so thick odds are, you could barely even see the FIRE!!! Beyond that, you wouldn’t be able to see your hand in front of your eyes!!!
@@chatteyj the different colours of the people represent different response time groups. The red had the shortest response time, as they had direct sight of the event. The yellow were the next group and the white had the longest response time.
@@redredmane5544 The people in close proximity saw the fire develop but many (not all) thought it was part of the show and so did not react immediately.
This simulation didn't assume anything of the sort from your initial statement of misunderstanding
The next time the club tells me the club is at capacity I won't give them a hard time anymore and leave, no fucking way I'm putting myself in a sardine can and end up like these souls...
apparently they used to have a exit down the hallway with the bathrooms - but it had been walled over after noise complaints from neighbors.
Jeff Dearman well they don’t have to hear the noise anymore the only thing they will hear in there head over and over are the screams from those poor souls that night .that will stick with those neighbors forever.
Place was a maze to get in and out with lights on. In the dark it was impossible.
Jeff Dearman I would have asked those people, “ I hope the sounds of the people screaming being burned alive didn’t bother you, they put up flammable foam to keep the noise in, just for you”!
I hear that due to the number of people sneaking in they made the emergency doors have to go inward which caused people to get stuck... must have been horrible.
From reading the book Killer Show, it sounded as though they doubled the thickness of the side door by having 2 stacked doors, with one opening inwards and one opening outwards. I think this was meant to improve sound-deadening to address complaints from the neighbors. The part about trying to prevent people from sneaking in was the placement of the "cattle chute" entranceway and removal of a door by the bathrooms.
Absolutely agree!! I’ve been in many many nightclubs because I’m a product of the 70s and 80s. All or most of the clubs had live bands and pyrotechnics. Not once did I ever think to look for an exit sign or door. Not to the point that it even crossed my mind in the slightest!! My God what an eye opener. I’m from mass so I would go to the Station and Lupos quite often. The terror theses people went through is unacceptable and chilling RIP to all the lost souls
I don't think as many people got out the backdoor as this simulation
It doesn't really show the pile of people that got wedged into that one doorway.
Yeah, it was literally blocked off
Agreed. And it didn't show the crush up front in the doorway which is frustrating.
6 or 7 years ago in Jersey City NJ my g/f (now wife) lived in a High Rise along the water in a section called "Newport". The building was at least 25 floors. She lived on the 5th floor & from time to time I would check the Emergency lighting & EXIT signs. Would you believe that out of the 30 or so that I checked, maybe 4 or 5 of them worked. Mind you, this is what I do on my job as a part of our yearly Fire Supression/Inspections. I was amazed (shocked). I brought it to the attention of the doorman & he literally shrugged his shoulders (as if to say, so what?) Shortly thereafter she moved out of the building.
+Sideler74 I lived in Newport around that time too - in the Presidential towers.
This is interesting - I guess - but:
Where is the fire?
Which is the main entrance?
What do the different colors of the people signify? What about the different, changing colors of the floor in different rooms?
Does this show actual locations of dead people, or theoretical locations?
Explaining these facts would make this far more useful to look at.
ruclips.net/video/VSlK_XJLSdM/видео.html
I mean. It has been 14 years and I don't know if you got an answer or not. So here goes nothing.
1. The fire started at left middle. Where the stage would be. Pyrothecnics started the fire at the top and sides of the stage.
2. The main entrence is the most right area. It was lead to by a starcase that takes left and right turns to it. It was one of the reasons the crowd was so slow on the evacuation. They slowed down cause they didn't know which way the exit was drunk or suffocated by the smoke by then, plus the doors opened inwards and only one was open. Someone busted out the second one and many people fell and died by others going over them. It was also a narrow hallway so it was bound to happen when you panic and run.
3. Probably of how far they were from direct fire. The yellows were separated by many walls, the whites were kinda far and the reds were the ones in sight of the fire.
The floor changing color is probably on where the fire was spreading or where was smoke mostly or what collapsed the fastest.
4. It does not show the exact locations. The people were stopped by bouncers from exiting the left side for 10-15 seconds after the fire started so they panicked and some were even found the upper right and left sides of the building where there are no exits. Most didn't know the layout and searched for one and got trapped.
After 90 seconds the main exit was severly blocked by people that wanted to squeez through it at once, so less people got out there than showed. And there were 20 something bodies on top of each other in there because they got stuck and burnt.
Some bodies were found near the windows trampeled by fallen debris or on top of each other burnt or suffocated by smoke.
Like 12 people made it out the left side exits, most were already burnt and died in the hospital.
So yeah. The deaths shown by this video were theoretical locations.
Thanks for all of that info.
Sometimes it is hard to envision such a chaotic situation. These details help to understand it.
Stampedes of panicking people (or cattle for that matter) almost always involve the deaths of sone who get trampled or suffocate from being packed in a small space with other stressed out terrified people.
I think that this is an important and useful simulation. There are a few significant errors, however:
1. The simulation shows many people (about 40) escaping from the stage door located on the right side. However, in actuality less than a dozen people came out that door. To exit that way would have required people to move towards the fire and away from the direction they entered. There are also reports that in the first few seconds people were prevented from exiting that way by the band.
You need to redo this after all these years and make it more accurate. There were at least 31 victims in the front exit and hall trying to get out, plus there is no mention on the fact that one of the bouncers wouldn't let people get out of the band area exit. So there is a huge question as to how many people really got out in that area. I did see a map indicating the numbers and areas where the people died. The entire video here could be reworked.
dontswin Thanks for your comments. You need to remember that this is a simulation that attempts to predict the incident. It will not necessarily be 100% accurate. When we did this analysis we were trying to recreate the incident as a form of validation of our software. We wanted to see how accurate our simulations could be. However, we did not have a fully accurate description of the initial conditions as this was a real incident and not a laboratory experiment. So it is unlikely that we would be 100% accurate, but given the uncertainties in the initial conditions the predictions are surprisingly accurate. Also, we did not model a bouncer physically preventing people trying to exit from particular exits, but we did represent this by having the exit "unavailable" during the period that the bouncers were reportedly active.
***** As far as the wikipedia article on the spread of the casualties is concerned, it seems as if many people were not aware of the location of the fire exits. Maybe this could be include in future versions as it seems to have created a lot more spread. Also a stampede effect, as happend in the actual fire could be usefull.
+TheHiya2009 In the simulation the agents have knowledge of some exits (not all exits). Everyone knows about the exit they entered by and they can learn about other exits from the exit signs - if they see them - and by communication with other agents who may know about other exits.
tell you what I would have smashed that bouncer in the face so hard, if a fire is coming at me, no bouncer is standing in my way
those poor people, I can imagine 100 people crawling around and literally boiling, absolutely horrific
PEOPLES HEADS WERE ON FIRE...PEOPLE WERE CRAWLING AND SCREAMING THE SCREAMS ALL CAME FROM INSIDE
+AUDREY MEADOWS Because that shit was melting and dripping down from the ceiling like napalm.
GARRY HIXON Did you type that while you were in the fire or something?
The hell are you on about? The foam began melting so that landed on the patrons heads which is why their heads were on fire. People were screaming from outside too if you watch the video that's crystal clear.
Could you explain me the difference between the white, yellow and red people at the beginning of the simulation?
Thank you :)
damn, 7 years later and you still never got an explanation.
@@johnf.kennedy 11 years now.
Red people had the shortest response time, people in white had the longest response time, whilst the people indicated as yellow had a response time that was in between
This simulation omits at least one instance of escape through the pool area windows(closely spaced squares bottom right and center). One escaped through an atrium hopper less than two minutes after flames appeared on the stage walls
In a rhetorical sense, I've wondered how different the outcome might have been if ALL of the front windows by the billiards table area would have been easily-openable emergency exits...
@@Tubes12AX7kit may have made a small difference. By the time people try to use the windows its pretty bad.
I noticed the simulation did not recreate the actual results. In your simulation a large number of people are found near the stage and stage exit. It was reported that a security person may have stopped people from using that exit. Is your software able to simulate the effect of an individual's behavior on the outcome? If so what would be the result? If an individual or two in the club had acted to direct people toward other exits what might have been the result per the simulation?
This is why I get nervous and hyper vigilant when I'm in a club with any sort of fire show.
Good work.
Really helps visualize what could be going on.
I'be been watching it on a loop
It's oddly healing.
the fire flashed over when the back door behind the drum riser was opened
Sounds like your confusing a flashover with a backdraft. Flashover occurs when heated gases get so hot they ignite which rapidly spreads the fire.
Thanks for the reply. I see your point that it would be difficult to duplicate things exactly. It is chilling to watch, but maybe that's why we need to watch it.
I'm a bit confused about this simulation. According to the simulation, 190 people died. The Wikipedia article states that "only" 100 died.
On another note, it really scares me that every death happened in a 20 second period. I can't imagine the horror those people went through. I have some other thought, but it's difficult to put it into words.
I appreciate the work that goes into producing the simulation and what they teach, but it does not match the diagram of the fatalities that the police produced. A lot more people died in the hallway of the main entrance trying to exit and in the areas in the upper left part of the diagram like near the walk-in cooler and the open area near the rear bar. Is this something that just says, give me a building diagram and some people and an ignition point and I'll tell you what I think will happen?
(EDIT: just learned this was meant to be a software test and not a 100% accurate reproduction.)
Is this incomplete? It’s quite inaccurate according the official investigation’s placement of the bodies. There were a few found in the offices and around 10 found near the entrance to the cooler. Only one was found near the stage exit and not the pile as shown here.
the large area, right of the front doors, where the 4 orange blocks are, should have, in all logical design elements, been the main entry/exit from the club. can you generate a simulation based on that criteria, and see how many more would have survived?
is this the one where the great white was playing when the pyro techs failed?
Great White was there. The singer with the mike in his hand never told everybody to exit the nightclub he just said that's not good and ran out the side door by the bar which is the one they would not let anyone exit. The night before they played at this place they got in trouble in a place in CT for using pyrotechnics. This was not really a nightclub I have been there for a burger and a beer a few times but it was way to small to be a night club. It was an old small building that was used to house horse carriages and over time it had a few additions added to it. It was more of a bar. You would think it would be full with about 30 people in it. I could not believe they got 300 people in it. They had pinball machines and other equipment up against the windows to get more people in for the event blocking escape routes. It was all over in 2 minutes from the start of the fire so there was just no way for that many people to get out. There was video from when it first happened you could see the crowd just standing there looking at the fire thinking it was part of the show or in shock, I don't know but they lost a lot of time before the crowd started to exit. Like I said the singer had the mic and control or attention of the crowd and he just ran out not even telling everyone to run for it. Some of the other band members never made it out that were on stage with him. This simulation is unrealistic of all that was wrong about that night. It still pisses me off to think about it and turns my stomach when ever I drive by the ugly memorial they put there.
Yes it is
That hall to the main door really slows things up they have to merge into other people lines to get out
Wow..
Speechless
Open flame + wood structure = death. Any questions?
The actual vid was terrifying
Danilo. I have been studying the Station Fire and the Kiss fire and I strongly believe that there was nowhere near 1500 people at the Kiss club. More like 800. There is no way over 1000 would have escaped at Kiss w 1 door only. There are 400 victims dead and hurt at Kiss..I believe 400 got out unhurt. But now way another 700 would have made it out. Do the math.
I have studied this particular fire and I see several things that are not in agreement with the actual events. There are three major deficiencies:
1. In the simulation, far too many people escape out the stage door to the right. This simulation shows about 40 people exiting there; in reality only about 10 people went out that way. Even though it was the closest exit for many, it required moving towards the fire and away from the direction from which they entered.
(continued in next post)
Can't be correct, this lasted a LOT longer than 2 minutes.
caslaBBalsac the whole building was drawning in flames already after 5 min
caslaBBalsac yeah no shit
If you watch the video it unfolds incredibly fast. Two minutes sounds about right.. being from the time it started to the time it fully engulfed everything
When I watch the video of everyone wedged in the front door I just wonder how that even happened. Who stopped moving to start the blockade? People should have been funneling out of there like minnows. I don’t get how they literally got wedged and couldn’t move. I just don’t get it.
have you done analysis where the area of the orange blocks is converted into entrance/exit doors instead of windows?
I think that if that area had been modified originally, to become doors, most would have gotten out that perished.
Are those red spots dead people?
Yes
Yes
At what point was the model started? Was it at ignition or when the crowd started to exit because of the fire? Footage of the Station fire shows a fair bit of a lag, and it didn't seem like there was any single moment when it was obvious that they needed to evacuate. It seemed to dawn on them over maybe 15-20 seconds or so. The band continued playing for about that long, maybe even a little longer. Does this model account for a gradual onset of evacuation decisions? Would that change the outcome in any meaningful way?
Also, what is the time scale of this animation? The video of the actual event shows survivors being helped out through the windows to the left of the main entrance and walking away several minutes after the start of the fire. One appears to have been pulled out of the middle window more than 4 minutes after the start of the fire. The time of apparent flashover in this model is about 30 seconds, but the real fire seems to have flashed over at about 1 minute after ignition.
Ok, I found the sim clock in the toolbar on top, so that answers my 2nd question, but I have a third question now. What happens at ~1:18 in your sim time, or about 0:27 in the video. To the left of the main entrance, the crowd suddenly seems to change directions. It turns away from the main exit and toward the windows. What happened to cause that? And just before that time, the crowd in the main room on the right does the same thing, as if running for the windows. The heavy smoke isn't indicated until 8 seconds later (sim time), which seems an eternity in this disaster.
+dcs002 The fire simulation was started at the point of ignition (see the FSEG produced fire simulations on this page), the evacuation starts at the same time. The agents in the simulation have a response time derived from the actual Rhode Island video, so they are reacting as they actually did in the real incident. I believe you have answered the second part of your question below.
+dcs002 The reason that the crowd turns away is that this route is blocked as their is significant congestion and the environmental conditions (heat, smoke, toxic gases) are getting severe at this location, hence the crowd begins to move away. Also at around this point the windows are broken by people in the vicinity suggesting another way out of the building.
+FSEGresearch Thanks, I understand the sudden change in exit strategy at that time now, and all the other questions I asked are answered, but I don't understand this: "(see the FSEG produced fire simulations on this page)" Was there supposed to be a link there? You answered my question related to that, so it's not important to me unless you think there is more information that might interest me elsewhere?
Thanks again, and thanks for your work!
+dcs002 If you go to the FSEG fire simulation play list (ruclips.net/p/PLC82636C7790DE890) and view animations 5, 6 and 7, this will show you the SMARTFIRE CFD fire simulation that is coupled to the buildingEXODUS evacuation simulation for this case. This may make it easier to understand what is going on. Keep an eye on the simulation clock, it is frightening how quickly the fire develops.
iv read other records on this fire and the placement of the dead is different than in your version.
jhon Me Yes, this is just one simulation of the fire and the evacuation. It is unlikely to produce exactly the same number and distribution of fatalities, but the general trends are very similar to that noted in the actual incident.
could you please go into more details about your legend on the grid? who are the reds, whites, and yellows? i can only assume red are the concert goers.
How do you make sure emergency exits work as a test? Do you think a bouncer, etc, would take kindly to you 'testing' one and setting of the alarms? Please help us out with this question.
uhh, most emergency exits don't set off an alarm, even the ones that are marked as such.
wasnt the nightclub made for like 300 ppl, and they had over 450 ppl there, so its the managers fault and hes serving 30 years for this...
A total of 462 people were in attendance, even though the club's official licensed capacity was 404
Now I can see what people did the big clump of people near the front door nearly moved a lot of people cut them off
About 360 people got out, but 100 didn't. Sucks, man.
I have also questioned the stated capacity but for the reason that I don't think the space would have accommodated such a large crowd. I wonder whether a preference for such a claim is to somehow soften the impact of the loss by tweaking the casualty rate to more closely bring it into line with other less egregious instances of loss due to fire.
I agree with that, I would have helped, and If I was in that door... break my arms, pull me out by whatever you can, it only makes sense
What happened to Stage Exit door at 0:30? Blocked by heat?
bodies had packed the doorway, people were climbing on top of each other in a panic to get out so exit was impossible.
Finn Thunder the fire started right next to that exit so im sure 30 seconds in that whole wall and ceiling were the worst of the fire
The bouncer rejected people trying to exit out the back stage.
I would think white would be worse than yellow. Is it not?
WTF was that? Didn't a hundred people die? Or do I have my nightclub fires mixed up?
why does the death toll here go to 200?
What exactly is that narrow area to the left of the stage (towards the top right of the screen) where that group of people in white are? It looks like part of the dance floor with a wall running through it.
I'm building a 3D model of the station in Blender, but i dont know what that little area is for.
TheWaynelds It's a drummer alcove, that's where the 45 degree fireworks ignited the foam initially
+TheWaynelds I believe it was a VIP section that was seperated by a half-wall.
where exactly is the stage than? on the right in the middle of the frame?
spidermarcus Yes, it is the far right about in the middle of the frame.
it´s so tragycly, i still can´t stand itt
Sort of reminds me of old Rose in Titanic...
Meaning "The actual experience was quite different." Even in Chicago, I've seen them LOCK the doors "just during the performance." I said "ok, so what about the drum set blocking the only other door..." A cop told me you know what'll happen, right? Nothing.
Most scary is the over a dozen things that match the same sort of event at the 2nd deadliest fire in US history: The Coconut Grove.
I've heard of fires starting under the stage during a show. Can't imagine if there were no fire extinguisher in reach in a very crowded place, say on NYE. I know a guy who had a fire pass him up in the drop ceiling ahead of him. Lucky he made it out alive.
I don't really enjoy it. I'm terrified of fires like Ritchie Valens wasn't too keen on airplanes...I like knowing where they screwed up and I watch whenever I'm out.
and this club Is right near the water to smh
What do the orange then green squares represent?
+Danielle Baldridge The green square represents a viable or active exit point. The orange square represents an exit point which is not active, either a closed door or a closed window. The exit points at the front and to the left are the windows, some of which were broken open by the crowd.
@resdsox1 Its not like he's making a conspiracy video.
What game is this please? This one is on Xbox 360?
This is no game. It's a simulation of an actual fire that killed actual people.
I really hate it when people make a simuation of big events like RI night club fire & September 11'th
They do this to figure out what things went wrong and how to improve structures and emergency procedures to prevent it from happening again.
Turbio
:(
this is the most constructive response i could muster to that comment