I did wonder how quickly your comments would fill with people pointing this out ^_~ He also appears in Thor: Ragnarok in a fresco of Odin and Hela routing an enemy army.
Interviewer: "Loki, what sex are you?" Loki: "Yes." Interviewer: "Okay...what sex do you prefer?" Loki: "Yes." Interviewer: "Okay, what gender do you identify as?" Loki: "One that has sex." Interviewer: "Which gender do you prefer?" Loki: "Yes." Interviewer: "Which species do you identify as?" Loki: "God of Mischief." Interviewer: "Which species do you prefer?" Loki: "Yes."
@Berserking Bishop So if Loki would have been too be ridiculed for not fitting into your understanding of sex and gender, what about Thor. You know, Thor that uber manly man's man - that cross dressed when the "ridiculous" Loki helped him to get his hammer back?
@Berserking Bishop Dude, half of Loki's myths are him having to fix the Aesir's problems for them, and its 50/50 whether those problems were caused by Loki or by the Aesir being pricks. The whole 'evil cause of ragnarok' is a later addition. Hell Ragnarok itself DEFINITELY a case of getting some Christianity mixed into your paganism to make it palatable to medieval readers, and I don't believe we have any idea what the original version was like (if it was even a thing) Hell there's a read on it where Loki is basically (shapeshifting omni/horsesexual) Jesus. Considering the lack of complete and contemporary sources, anybody making declarative statements on how the vikings interpreted these stories is suspect, and if those declarative statements happen to line up suspiciously with their own modern views then they're VERY suspect
@@MrColuber And you know that because ...? There's a heap of archaeological evidence of phenotypically male skeletons being buried with artifacts that are usually only used in burials of women ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Truth is, we don't really know much about how ancient cultures viewed gender and gender expression - and to say: "They just adhered to the dominant stereotypes from modern western culture" is simply wrong
People are getting mad at the percieved trend of feminizing masculine heroes, regardless of their previous reputation. Getting annoyed by trends is something humans have done for a long time. Just look at how the Romantics were dumped on by the Realists.
Loke is such a fascinating character. Modern sexual morality (even the liberal kind) cannot fathom Lokes sexuality. I find his sexual moral one of his least questionable qualities... At least he claims father/ motherhood to his children, and accepts them as his/her own - even the weirder ones of the bunch!
Will the only thing u I might not like about if he pushes u just to see what trouble he can get u in until u have to take him with ya down to make sure stops laughing He has wisdom just act out of Order alot 😅🤣
Look up Apolloism or REM Theory on RUclips. There is an entire White Supremacist movement looking to make Apollo a "Christ-like" figure for their artificially created religion meant to revive the heteronormative WASP elitist powers over society. They even claim the clearly bisexual Apollo to be "straight" and also claim that homoerotic stories about the Gods in European folktales are "Jewish conspiracies."
@@faerie5926 as a Christian (from what I learned from previous churches, I'm not saying all Christians and churches taught this) is, sex is bad if it's not just for creating another life, being "too" close with the same gender are just best friends, and blame everything on Jewish people and Judaism
@@pitayafruit That's why I quit Christianity in Catholic school! The nuns mistook my relationship with my best friend for a gay "particular friendship!"
Joking aside, modern humans generally have no right imposing modern gender roles and norms on the past (mythological or otherwise), so you're absolutely right. None of these terms should be applied.
Yes....I've been fighting that battle with folks for years. Not sure why people get so pissed about how stuff was done in the distant past , based on the modern "moral norms". It boggles the mind.
The terms "homosexual " "heterosexual" and "bisexual" were all coined in the 1800s by sexologists. Before then, people practiced situational sexuality, as nuns and convicts do.
@@darlalathan6143 no, that's not true at all and that's even more problematic than the original point we are trying to tackle. What I am saying is that whilst what we now call Heterosexuality was the norm and there were Homosexuals, defining anything between those by modern terms such as Bisexual or Pansexual is impossible and wrong. Your claim is that these identities did not exist because the terms did not exist. That is just not true. With regards to situational sexuality, that is specifically in contexts where contact of some form is limited and does not apply to people living in "the normal world" outside of those situations.
*Loki likes to turn himself into a horse for the nookie with a stallion *Zeus likes to turn himself into animals for the nookie with guys and gals I'm beginning to see a pattern here...
While prostitution might be the oldest past time, buggery (bestiality/zoophilia/screwing animals) is a far older past time for both genders. Says a lot when a King's wife would rather get banged by a bull than her husband...
@@couchingzone2615 it's almost like we're just interpreting the norms of ancient cultures to ours without concrete knowledge on how they operated back in the day
As a 63 year old gay man growing up in the 60's being gay was pretty scary and difficult to manuever between islands of of safe people that didn't care if you you were gay. So it was with great pleasure to hear you speak up. I didn't have that as a child and thank you for being geniuine and real. I enjoy you videos and have learned quite a lot. Keep up the good work!
I'll bet that the majority of people getting mad about this were not aware that Nordic Mythology was an actual people's mythology and didn't originate in a comic book
That is where I too believe the main problem is, many people don't even know that Thor came from somewhere else other than comics and the movies. It just confirms that I'm justified in losing faith in humanity.
IMHO, MCU's Loki is a separate character from the mythological Loki is a separate character from the Dad-of-War's Loki. *I've no problem with Loki's (any of them's) sexual preference,* but something doesn't sit right with equating a comic book character with "an actual people's mythology". MCU's Loki is MCU's Loki, allowed to diverge from or stick to the character they are based on as much as the story requires. Playing the devil's advocate here; MCU's Loki is different from the mythological Loki in many ways - some big, some small. If being true to the source is so important, where is Loki's wife Sigyn?
Wait, there's actually people who think Loki not being a cis straight guy is "political correctness gone mad"? Have they never even glanced at a Norse myth?
Ofc they haven't read a Norse myth, or any even semi-reliable history book! They'll tell you black people never set foot in Mediaeval England, & women have always had more rights than men, so reality doesn't come into it- they just dismiss anything they don't like as "leftist propaganda!!!"
Still, in the whole story Thor was described as a man dressed as a woman (a rather fierce woman, according to the tale), while his handmaid Loki was directly described with words referring to him as her, so he'd probably shapeshifted. And that's sooooo Loki!
@@annalisalundberg4561 this is the part that I have been wondering about. Didn't Loki have a power to really disguise Thor? Or did he just not mention it so Thor had to go in drags? I Mean, that might fit his character
@@jorenbosmans8065 @J Wolf you are probably right. I don't know if that was a later addition to make fun of men dressing as women (it was done in many cultures, also for ritualistic reasons, we might think this was the case in ancient Scandinavia too)...there are so many things we have los, or that we cannot understand anymore... anyway, being Loki mischievious, not truly good, not truly evil, this is quite in line with his/her/their character, like "okay, I will help you, but just a bit. Afterwards, everybody loves a good laugh!"
The Ancient Greek: "Yeah, that woman had sex with a bull." The Old Norse: "Yeah, that god had sex with a horse." Some people in South America: "Yeah, some women get pregnant from dolphins." And So On Humanity in a nutshell.
Don't forget that time Zeus turned into a literal golden shower and got someone pregnant that way! Or the bird thing...or when he gave birth to Athena through his forehead...
The Laufey thing was appaently an honest mistake on Marvel's part. They compansated for this by naming Loki's bio mum in the comics Farbauti, which was his father's name in the mythology.
The comics versions of the characters were invented in the 1960s. I can only assume that without the research powers of the Internet, they took one look at the Norse mythology entry in an encyclopedia and based their stories off that. Another thing they got wrong was the name of Thor’s hammer: originally it was named Uru, but when someone pointed out it was called Mjolnir in the myths, Marvel changed it so uru was the name of the metal the hammer was made of.
It's simple, if you don't want to sleep with Loki, say so, but that doesn't mean Loki doesn't get to continue being a fantastic, ray of bright, shining chaos.
I think I'd probably sleep with Loki if I had the chance, sadly. Unless they were in horse form. I don't do that. But, c'mon - it's LOKI. It's like getting the chance to sleep with Apollo.
@@christineherrmann205 Think of all the things you could learn from such an experienced trickster! ... or maybe he'd just have really weird taste and it'd be a bit meh... but still, what a story.
@@christineherrmann205 I'm dying here! X'D I never thought "would I sleep with Loki?" was a question I'd ever ask myself, but considering the merits of a hookup with a god is perfectly reasonable imo, & yeah- I think "c'mon- it's LOKI" is where I'd end up too :D (Ditto NOT horse-Loki tho)
This should be the rule about other people's sexuality in general, really! "If you don't want to sleep with them, say so, but that doesn't mean they don't get to continue being a fantastic ray of bright, shining chaos with other consenting adults..."
I read the title and thought, “ But Loki’s a shape shifting giant…. Why should human *anything* apply to him? He does what he wants!” It’s a comfort to know I was right… *and* I knew about the wolf and the horse! Glad to see my sketchy remembering of Norse mythology from when I was a child was more or less correct (! Clearly my book of myths wasn’t bowdlerised…)
I was going to mention that Sleipnir was in Thor 1, but it looks like people beat me to it, but I do want to mention that, though it is obviously still incorrect, the switching of Laufey to male was not done in the movies, but was done in the comics back in the 60s. Obviously this doesn't make it ok to erase a female character, but I wanted to point out that the movies were sticking to comic accuracy, rather than erasing a female character on purpose. Also it seems to me, from your mention that it was completely fine to be the penetrator, but deemed bad to be the penetrated, that this stems from misogyny. I.e. it is bad to be the penetrated, because this is the woman's role, and being a woman is bad, vs it doesn't matter whether you penetrate men or women or both, because penetrating is manly and men are good! (Much like ancient Greece and Rome, and probably the root of a lot of homophobia now come to that) Anyway, thank you for debunking Straight Loki (tm)!
People being upset with "bi Loki" weren't even paying attention to the MARVEL MOVIES! It's pretty heavily implied he has slept with Jeff Goldblum character on Thor: Ragnarok! He flirts incessantly with anyone! Please!
I appreciate both versions of Loki the mythology and the Marvel. Both are complex and fascinating. But I don't consider them the same character in my mind. I would love to see Marvel include more of the Norse mythology into the MCU. I think it's clear these dumb hateful people who are now taking issue with Loki have only seen the movies because there's plenty of Loki being Loki in the comics.
Also Tom Hiddleston was asked a while ago on a red carpet or premier if Loki was part of the LGBTQ and Tom said that in his opinion Loki was/is Bi... Like way before the show... And we know Hiddleston did his research. He absolutely love the character he plays.
@@CourtneySchwartz What on Earth did they think about people who liked to switch it out, I wonder? Perhaps they had to count every time they had some, and then calculate what they had done more and put the mark on that box🤔
@@Sienisota "Bjorn, how many times have you been the dominant one?" "Nineteen times with men, Twenty-four with women Sven." "And how many times have you been the submissive one?" "In the same encounter or in general?"
Love this! As an old woman who really doesn't know all the fancy terms for sexual identity, I have always preferred just "Sexual". Why paint yourself into a corner? Be free and channel your inner Loki!
I'm just shaking my head. People are only getting their "Norse Mythology" from Marvel and not actually taking any time to look into the source material. (Or as close as we can get) Loki will sleep with anything with a pulse. Clearly.
Even in the Marvel comics, Loki is both genderfluid and bi/pan. So they're not actually getting their 'information' from anywhere except their own prejudices
@@MsStBoom A lot of people aren't reading the comics, they're just watching the movies and are now being shown his non-selective tendencies. I know a few people that are being shocked by it all and I'm pointing them to the source material.
Despite my love for Norse mythology I have to say that you don't need to compare it with the modern media. The MCU and OG NM are two distinct universes quite different from one another, the only thing they share are the characters names and their roles and abilities. If we would to make them similar we would get: Odin being an adulterer, Thor as a angry murderer, a lot of animal god-children, a more accurate Ragnarök l and so one. That's why I find people comparing Norse Loki to the MCU Loki redundant. We need to judge the character as he is portrayed now than in the 11-12 century. And this character is awesome, fun, is played by a great actor and his sexuality perfectly fits his scheming nature. Most people that are negative about this reveal aren't anti-LGBT or think he should be straight, it's because the media, Marvel included, have a history of shoehorning such stuff , making it look more political than genuine, so it got to a point when a character is called LGBT people tend to see it as a political move to appease LGBT people and get quite annoyed with it. Feel free to tell what you think of this and point out anything I might've gotten wrong.
If very close-minded people need to see a perfected image of themselves in every character in every fantasy, how very boring and rusty from disuse must their own imaginations be?
One translation I read about Norse myths, Thor said one should always assume Loki was the source of problem, it saved him a lot of time. I’m paraphrasing but that is a good thing to remember
Bisexuality is a modern idea. In history peoples had ideas of what "a real guy" does and does not, but it is not the same as our modern term bisexual and it depends on times and culture. It is however certain that both Loki and Odin certainly went far over what was the common viking sexual norms for a "real guy", they stood beyond that...
I didn't even blink when Loki said "A bit of both". Of course he does, he is Loki. I had forgotten about the horse thing, even though I read about that in grade school. I always figured since people of Asgard are gods, they would just do as they pleased, sexually or in any other pursuit they were involved. Just like the Olympians.
Ahhh! You mentioned the Lokasenna milkmaid anecdote! I love the milkmaid thing because it's so juicy and yet so vague! They don't even really specify if he was married to a human man, other jotun or some variety of elf in translations I've read, just a vague, "he went to the underworld and bore children for eight winters." Which underworld??? People always go on and on about the horse thing, but they rarely mentioned the several other instances of him bearing children. I believe there was also a story about him having eaten the heart of a giantess and giving birth to "all the monsters." Like, ALL of them??? I really like that bit from Young Avengers as well, about it being more about sexual acts in Norse culture. It's as close a reference to the concept of Ergi as we are likely to get in a PG-13 comic book world. Which I believe was an accusation that you could "sue" someone for back in the day, an insult second only in severity to accusing someone of being impregnated by an animal. I am not a historian, so if any of this is factually wonky, forgive me.
We did the Eddas in school but this was much more lively and fun! And bonus for bringing up the "doing" sex versus having a sexuality thing. It's always good to remember that the idea of sexuality as identity is around a hundred years old, give or take.
@@LouiseWatson-Carver Sleipnir is a stallion, not a mare. Of all loki's names I have seen, "mare's mother" is not one of them. The name Loki has with regards to Sleipnir is "Sleipnis fraendi" or "Sleipnir's kinsman". Plus at no point is Sleipnir referred to as female in the Eddas. In fact, given that Norse was a gendered language, the prose Edda is explicit in stating that Sleipnir is a stallion: "Sleipnir er baztr, hann á Óðinn. Hann hefir átta fætr." "Sleipnir is best, that Odin has. HE has eight legs/feet". And that's just one quote. You can look it up yourself but yeah.. Sleipnir is a dude.
I do love that you went out of your way to look up some furry porn to illustrate that point. Very odin of you, sacrificed yourself (i.e. search history) to yourself (i.e. video amazeballness).
So Loki is an omnivore that will sleep with whoever is attractive at that moment. Tricksters gotta trick. Fascinating. Thanks for this. Happy Pride, by-the-by. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown
No, bisexuality doesn't mean that you "sleep with whoever is attractive at that moment" and it doesn't make somebody a "trickster". I'm living with this biphobic cliches for some decades now and I'm honestly fed up.
@@couchingzone2615 I never meant to say that was the definition of bisexuality. No insult was intended, I'm sorry you read it that way. It was definitely not intended as such. As Mister Viking said - Loki is not human. Our definitions don't apply. He, like Raven in the West Coast of Canada, or Coyote in the American South-East, a trickster. Tricksters, if you check with Joseph Campbell, plays by their own rules.
I love that you brought up that lauyfey is his MOTHER, because I couldn't find ANYONE talking about it, and a hated it. She not mentioned much but SHE EXISTS MARVEL!!!!!! The way you explained all this was brilliant, and just wonderful to watch. Also, the fact that ANYONE thought Loki was STRAIGHT??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA what world do you live in, because its not one of the 9 realms.
Two years ago I started following "norse pagan" and mythology channels because I'm interested in the stories and history of north and celtic mythology. But I wasn't aware that there is a very toxic part of the pagan community until about 6 months ago. I'm completely disgusted by people who use north mythology to justify their racism, homophobia and sometimes even Nazi ideology. That Richard Wagner did this in his operas in the 19th century doesn't mean, it's okay to do it on the internet today. 😖
Genuinely they can get fucked. Naziism spawned in WW2 germany, Norse paganism had a much broader reach across several european countries. It never belonged to them and they just twisted it to suit their political narrative. It's a parasitic ideology, a tick stuck to our collective norse testicles and there are unfortunately too many people too stupid to tell the difference.
Technically Mythology ia open source. Anyone and no one "owns" it, even "nazis", who hapoen that killed far less than soviets but somehow soviets are the heroes lol 🥴
@@josephang9927 What? I don't know where you live but I've never heard anybody saying that the soviets are heros. 😅 And it doesn't matter if something is an open source or not. If you interpret any historical source in a way to justify racism or the suppression of any other group of people in the 21st century, you're a truly disgusting and sad human being.
I'm teaching a homeschool co-op class this fall on Norse Mythology for middle and high schoolers. This is such a great resource, and thank you so much for the further reading links. Loki is definitely going to lead to some interesting class discussions.
I love everything about this video! As a viking age reenactor: Thank you for referring to source material. Thank you for calling out idiots who judge others and want to claim parts of history as their own, even though they have no real knowledge of it. And thank you for making me laugh :)
The homophobes probably aren’t using texts written two centuries after the Viking period as a source - more likely they’re using a sanitised Victorian version (same for anyone who insists Achilles and Patroclus weren’t in a relationship in the Iliad) for their source. Was the sex with the horse consensual? Not an expert, but if I’m remembering things correctly, in the version I’ve heard, he transformed into a mare to lure the stallion away, which he does so, and then some time later he shows up with Sleipnir and goes “this is my son”. Of course considering his powers it does seem unlikely that he was raped, but it’s probably still food for thought. The whole ‘same sex sex is okay, but being the bottom is unmanly’ thing isn’t just limited to the Norse; for example, during one of his political campaigns, Julius Caesar’s political rivals tried to slander him by bring up a previous samesex relationship he’d allegedly had, but the slander wasn’t that he’d had a male lover, it was that allegedly Caesar had been the bottom in the relationship. Not knowledgable about Asian history but fairly sure you’ll find similar things there too, and probably also in American, Australian, etc histories too if we had more extensive written records of them.
I think It's more of the framing. If they showed Loki as he is in the myths(and not edit it to fit modern day P.C culture) It would be fine. He can actually shapeshift and become a female or an animal.He is not pretending he is something he is not. This fact is seen by Loki giving birth to Sleipnir. This is something no human can do(change sexes or species). Nobody can change their sex and fulfill the part of the reproductive cycle of the sex they change to. So If Loki changes into a Woman and is with a man that is a real woman having sex with a man. Just like Loki was a real horse. This isn't what will be shown though and that's the problem. Loki is not someone to be looked up to. He is contrary to Order and is an agent of Chaos. The fact is that Loki is a shapeshifter that has sex with men and woman and Animals. The P.c Leftest and their allies Will leave all that out and instead say "see boys can like other boys" SOOOOOOO.........Boys can have sex with animals with that same logic. But they are going to cover up all that Animal stuff and the shapeshifting just to push their narrative. People always try and talk about the right hijacking our Ancestral religion but the left is doing it on a much bigger scale.
@@albertcook Some one should try looking into biology written past 1950. Loki is also listed as gender fluid, and is perfectly happy sleeping with any gender, as any gender, or species for that matter. Bi is very much a good description, the only arguably better one would be pan.
@@gaberielpendragon Stop projecting modern ideas onto an ancient society that didn’t have any concept of such things. He was a shapeshifter. Also he was forced by the gods to distract the horse or else.. There is also zero places that says he had sex with a man. It's people interpreting he being a "maid" for 8 years as an insult from Odin( weird huh? it was almost like it was an insult and shameful in the original text). This could just be that he was performing duties that were seen as a womans job.. But show me where in the original sources it says "genderfluid" I'll wait....Also show me any biology written past 1950 that shows a man can become a woman and give birth....or a woman becomes a man and impregnate a woman with his semen........I'll wait
Now you are giving me ideas about a strange D&D multiclass with College of Whispers bard, Arcane Trickster Rogue and Trickery Domain Cleric. Might be some Marvel influence there, but now I need to stop my mind from delving further into the mechanics of this.
You subtitle game today is ON. POINT. Thank you. And of course the people having kittens over this, claiming it's a "woke perversion of a manly Viking god", had never heard of Loki before the movies, or bothered to read even the Wikipedia entry for Loki at any point, let alone anything close to a summary of the Edas.
I've not done much research on Norse Mythology, or read Marvel comics. It was totally unsurprising that Loki isn't straight. I mean look at his outfit. ;)
Loki is Loki, always have been and always will be....beyond our understanding! One thing's for sure though, you better keep yourself in Loki's good books! 😉 On a different note, how the (put your sentence enhancer here) don't you have more than 100K+ subscribers? 🤨🤔
*Queen Elizabeth: I love horses. Loki: hold my beer...* Glad to see you're feeling better!!!! And I hope I never know which paths your research for this video took you...
Isn't Loki also genderfluid in the marvel comic universe anyway? Which leads to Thor calling him both his brother and sister? I'm by no mean a comic expert tbh, but with a bit of research I found "Though Loki has since gone back to being a male in the main Marvel continuity, The Tenth Realm established it's not that simple. This 2014 comic book established that Loki is genderfluid".
What's the music at 0:55 ? I have to go give it a listen ! Also : "If it has a pulse, Loki will sleep with it." Does that mean Jack Harkness is Loki confirmed ?
Thank you for covering this, I'd seen comments made from news articles, not read them because I was afraid of them being homophobic. I'm so happy you mentioned about Sleipnir and the great wall, really wished Marvel could make a nod to that somehow. Edit: Spelling mistake.
whoever GENUINELY thought mcu loki was straight kind of had it coming 😂 anyone interested in a more gnc and not definitely straight loki should check out the norwegian Ragnarok series. It's pretty decent! (show wise, I cannot attest for the norse mythology accuracy lol)
The most hilarious in this whole "debate" was a person on TikTok claiming Loki is a cishet guy who had a blue lives matters flag with Marvel Loki in front of it as a profile picture. I still might not be over it and it has been like a month since I saw that
Yeeeeh! Good one mate, another banger of a video, fantastic, brilliant, showstopping! Also, fantastic good educational material again! As an English tutor, I have to say I use your vids in my classroom here in Russia, and they are always a riot!!))
Thank you for this great video! I really appreciate how critical you are with the sources. Some scholars in Old Norse studies even question whether Snorri existed at all ;) And for you and everyone else who might be interested, check out the "Vikings Are Gay!" podcast by Amy Jefford Franks, it's a great introduction to queerness and Old Norse studies!
I don't do Disney Plus so I no longer can keep up with the MCU and Ive been avoiding social media so I hadn't actually heard they'd made Loki canonically anything other than a heterosexual cis man. Im happy to hear about it. Not surprised a bunch of people are upset cause its sadly the world we live in but oh well. More rep for marvel is something I am very down for. I had already looked into the myths so this was a review for me. A greatly enjoyed refresher and how much of your personality and sass you worked in. Thank you for this!
I had a lot of fun explaining to my girlfriend all the things Loki has slept with in the mythology. I can’t believe how many people HAVEN’T actually read any of the myths who say they are into Norse mythology.
Thank you for this. I was getting upset about people being bothered by his "sexual fluidity/omnisexuality". I could have sworn Loki, by mythology standards, had done some weird ass shit
Is Loki bi, pan, omni, and more? Sure. Also, as you pointed out, non-human, so I don't even think those labels apply. Loki is also fictional, so I just can't wrap my head around anyone getting upset about this. Some people love to project their own insecurities onto everything. Either enjoy the stories or don't and move on with your life.
Love this! Everything I’d have said is already covered in the comments, so I’ll just add: fabulous to see you looking and sounding so good after your bout of COVID. Be well and happy!
If Loki spent eight years as a woman and bear children, who was this legendary man of unsung renown that drew Loki's attention and what became of Loki's demigod children ?
@@TheWelshViking Why limit to every man ? I met some overly intelligent ravens and coyotes over the years that just loved to pull pranks on people. I grew up in the countryside next to corn fields & forested hills with bob cats along with skunks for household pets. In grade school, magic circles were just imaginary fun and games. But once I turn 13yo, things got really .. strange.
I've never seen any of your videos but saw this. Thank you for addressing this. People are ridiculous when they get upset about shit that's been like it is for thousands of years.
I wonder if men who were "submissive" could still be considered manly if they were power bottoms, though I'm not sure what that would mean for their tops. Equivalency? I'm also not convinced everyone at a Pride Parade isn't a Norse God
My understanding of the term submissive as used in history was someone that was taken by force, not someone who either topped or bottomed by choice. They were not manly because they could not defend themselves against being taken against their will.
Strange how youtube recommendations work. I only started watching Loki today while hemming my latest reenactment kirtle and this video popped up. Loved your breakdown, it was quite similar to how I've understood the Eddas. As a Scandinavian who grew up with Norse Mythology playing a big part of traditional folklore(in Denmark we still call barrows and passage grave "Jættestuer" = Jötunn's living room) I'm more than a little surprised if people are upset about Loki not being straight - I thought everybody knew "he" is up for anything, haha.
one time my friend who was doing an old norse module at uni spent like 20 minutes telling me about how interesting he found the attitudes to sexuality and gender in the mythology he was studying, i think he wrote an essay about it so i was vaguely aware that this was a thing, i have no engagement in marvel films aside from watching thor one time tho
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Edit: apparently Sleipnir is in the first Thor movie, but the fact I forgot that just shows that we need more Sleipnir so Marvel, jump on it.
Yeah... I honestly can't remember when he's shown. I always assumed he had a techno-magical equivalent, to be honest xD
@@talscorner3696 it's when they go to Jotunheim to rescue Thor and Loki and their friends.
I did wonder how quickly your comments would fill with people pointing this out ^_~ He also appears in Thor: Ragnarok in a fresco of Odin and Hela routing an enemy army.
Ok, but what is this glorious choir music?
The rainbow Bridge hits the ground and you see Sleipnir bathed in light it's glorious. They definitely needed more of him.
Interviewer: "Loki, what sex are you?"
Loki: "Yes."
Interviewer: "Okay...what sex do you prefer?"
Loki: "Yes."
Interviewer: "Okay, what gender do you identify as?"
Loki: "One that has sex."
Interviewer: "Which gender do you prefer?"
Loki: "Yes."
Interviewer: "Which species do you identify as?"
Loki: "God of Mischief."
Interviewer: "Which species do you prefer?"
Loki: "Yes."
This is wonderfully accurate.
That’s so perfect!!!!
And you somehow expect him to be honest with you? The only thing he would be screwing with is your mind.
@@Tue_ And apparently horses...per the comics
Loki: u know I just like to have some fun. Fun beyond human's way of having fun.
Loki is a shape shifter. He is beyond human understanding of genders and sexual preferences.
This lmao. I'm not a fan of woke stuff either but this is just true to source. Loki is Loki.
@Berserking Bishop So you're one of those Asatru freaks?
@Berserking Bishop So if Loki would have been too be ridiculed for not fitting into your understanding of sex and gender, what about Thor. You know, Thor that uber manly man's man - that cross dressed when the "ridiculous" Loki helped him to get his hammer back?
@Berserking Bishop Where was he ridiculed for his ergi? After all, that ergi is what makes Loki such a resource for the other gods.
@Berserking Bishop Dude, half of Loki's myths are him having to fix the Aesir's problems for them, and its 50/50 whether those problems were caused by Loki or by the Aesir being pricks.
The whole 'evil cause of ragnarok' is a later addition. Hell Ragnarok itself DEFINITELY a case of getting some Christianity mixed into your paganism to make it palatable to medieval readers, and I don't believe we have any idea what the original version was like (if it was even a thing)
Hell there's a read on it where Loki is basically (shapeshifting omni/horsesexual) Jesus. Considering the lack of complete and contemporary sources, anybody making declarative statements on how the vikings interpreted these stories is suspect, and if those declarative statements happen to line up suspiciously with their own modern views then they're VERY suspect
Did they get their religions mixed up? Did someone actually expect "good Christian values" from a pagan god?
Neo nazis are very keen on this bullshit
A pagan trickster god no less who's not even known for their "good pagan values"
Christians don't even understand their own book, more less any other book. Homosexual didn't show up in the bible until 1946.
Are you assuming that a figment of Norsemen's imagination would be liberal? Most ancient cultures didn't respect men who behave like women.
@@MrColuber And you know that because ...? There's a heap of archaeological evidence of phenotypically male skeletons being buried with artifacts that are usually only used in burials of women ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Truth is, we don't really know much about how ancient cultures viewed gender and gender expression - and to say: "They just adhered to the dominant stereotypes from modern western culture" is simply wrong
Basically Loki's sexuality is: yes.
Also he can get along with the Todd from Scrubs.
Also Also, I never knew I need this crossover
He also horse sexual
Lol
Oohhh. That sounds a lot like Captain Jack Harkness from Dr. Who/Torchwood. Hmmm. Gotta go check my fan fiction library.
Omnisexual
Me entering this video: HES GONNA TALK ABOUT THE HORSE
SO MUCH HORSETALK
My thoughts exactly! 🤣
better than that time Zuse raped a woman AS A GOOSE!
Jimmy never would have heard the end of it if he hadn't brought up the horse.
@@Shard18 nOT TO MENTION THE TIME HE ASSUALTED A TEENAGE GIRL AS PISS
the fact that people are getting mad about this NOW is so funny to me like he’s been the fandom bicycle for YEARS
lol yeah fandoms had all kinds of fun layering mcu canon with aspects of the old myths.
Ah yes, those innocents who've never read fanfic :D
Right? Ten minutes on tumblr or DeviantArt would give these people a fatal heart attack...
People are getting mad at the percieved trend of feminizing masculine heroes, regardless of their previous reputation. Getting annoyed by trends is something humans have done for a long time. Just look at how the Romantics were dumped on by the Realists.
im dying over 'the fandom bicycle' as someone who wrote MCU fic back in the day that was exclusively frostiron.... well you aint wrong lol
If Odin transformed into a woman to perform women's magic, does that make him a magical girl? Does he get a magical girl transformation scene?
...this comment is sending my imagination in paths I never thought I would explore...and I don't know if I'm amused or afraid... 🤣
Of course he does!
As a Norse pagan, I say YES!
Yes, but he still looks like Anthony Hopkins.
Whatever you do, Odin, don't make a deal with Cyubey!!!
If Thor got a magical girl transformation in Ragnarok then yes, he should.
Loki was...how shall we say it, beyond basic human preferences.
"You humans and your quaint little categories!" - Captain Jack Harkness
Loki isn't real. Therefore he isn't beyond human preferences.
@@MrColuber Or perhaps because he is not real its why he's beyond human preferences.
"No one alive can comprehend my sexual preference"
-Alucard, Hellsing Ultimate Abridged
@@josharko111 fucking beat me to it.
"Big sweaty daddy stallion" is not... a combination of words I was expecting to hear today...
Yeah it... it went in some interesting directions.
I knew the myth going in and wasn't expecting to hear that combination of words 😂
Well, that's probably what horses think of him, lol!
🤣🤣🤣
Ok, you know what? My dreams are dirty enough, Jimmy! I don’t need help! 😂
"Big, sweaty, daddy stallion"...updating my Grindr profile riiiiight now.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hit me up
Is that Henry Cavil in your profile avatar?
@@brucenatelee Mine? No. That was me 7 years ago when I was young and skinny.
Brings whole new meaning to "rode hard and put away wet," doesn't he now, nyao? -_^
Loke is such a fascinating character. Modern sexual morality (even the liberal kind) cannot fathom Lokes sexuality. I find his sexual moral one of his least questionable qualities... At least he claims father/ motherhood to his children, and accepts them as his/her own - even the weirder ones of the bunch!
Yeah, he does not get enough credit for that.
Will the only thing u
I might not like about if he pushes u just to see what trouble he can get u in until u have to take him with ya down to make sure stops laughing
He has wisdom just act out of Order alot 😅🤣
I mean, Hel/Hela was kinda send a world away, but if I remember that was Odin's doing, right?
Wasn't Hel described by marvel as his sister and not his daughter?
@@strikerzac we shall pretend that didn't happen :)
What’s next a bisexual Apollo? Not like one of his loves was a man who he turned in to a flower to immortalize his beauty after he died.
Look up Apolloism or REM Theory on RUclips. There is an entire White Supremacist movement looking to make Apollo a "Christ-like" figure for their artificially created religion meant to revive the heteronormative WASP elitist powers over society. They even claim the clearly bisexual Apollo to be "straight" and also claim that homoerotic stories about the Gods in European folktales are "Jewish conspiracies."
@@Lvestfold4143 NO- why r there ppl like this??? T-T
@@faerie5926 as a Christian (from what I learned from previous churches, I'm not saying all Christians and churches taught this) is, sex is bad if it's not just for creating another life, being "too" close with the same gender are just best friends, and blame everything on Jewish people and Judaism
@@pitayafruit That's why I quit Christianity in Catholic school! The nuns mistook my relationship with my best friend for a gay "particular friendship!"
He is even a professional in skinning live human who play the flute better than him!!!
Joking aside, modern humans generally have no right imposing modern gender roles and norms on the past (mythological or otherwise), so you're absolutely right. None of these terms should be applied.
Yes, yes & yes! "The past is another country, they do things differently there"
Yes....I've been fighting that battle with folks for years. Not sure why people get so pissed about how stuff was done in the distant past , based on the modern "moral norms". It boggles the mind.
Its literally like telling a toddler that they can only play with this specific set of toys because that's "normal"
...wait-
The terms "homosexual " "heterosexual" and "bisexual" were all coined in the 1800s by sexologists. Before then, people practiced situational sexuality, as nuns and convicts do.
@@darlalathan6143 no, that's not true at all and that's even more problematic than the original point we are trying to tackle.
What I am saying is that whilst what we now call Heterosexuality was the norm and there were Homosexuals, defining anything between those by modern terms such as Bisexual or Pansexual is impossible and wrong.
Your claim is that these identities did not exist because the terms did not exist. That is just not true.
With regards to situational sexuality, that is specifically in contexts where contact of some form is limited and does not apply to people living in "the normal world" outside of those situations.
*Loki likes to turn himself into a horse for the nookie with a stallion
*Zeus likes to turn himself into animals for the nookie with guys and gals
I'm beginning to see a pattern here...
While prostitution might be the oldest past time, buggery (bestiality/zoophilia/screwing animals) is a far older past time for both genders.
Says a lot when a King's wife would rather get banged by a bull than her husband...
Yeah, it's almost like categories like heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual didn't exist until the 19th century, which is absolutely the fact
@@couchingzone2615 it's almost like we're just interpreting the norms of ancient cultures to ours without concrete knowledge on how they operated back in the day
@@amzarnacht6710 To be fair, wasn't it Aphrodite's fault that Minos' wife wanted to bang the bull?
@@predwin1998 actually it was Poseidon's fault, he made her fall mad in love with the bull, how he made it without the goddess of love is beyond me
As a 63 year old gay man growing up in the 60's being gay was pretty scary and difficult to manuever between islands of of safe people that didn't care if you you were gay. So it was with great pleasure to hear you speak up. I didn't have that as a child and thank you for being geniuine and real. I enjoy you videos and have learned quite a lot. Keep up the good work!
I'll bet that the majority of people getting mad about this were not aware that Nordic Mythology was an actual people's mythology and didn't originate in a comic book
Marvel comics have overtaken popular culture so much that most people think they're mythologically accurate -.-
Truth
That is where I too believe the main problem is, many people don't even know that Thor came from somewhere else other than comics and the movies. It just confirms that I'm justified in losing faith in humanity.
@@HotDogTimeMachine385 That's some good comic books!
IMHO, MCU's Loki is a separate character from the mythological Loki is a separate character from the Dad-of-War's Loki.
*I've no problem with Loki's (any of them's) sexual preference,* but something doesn't sit right with equating a comic book character with "an actual people's mythology".
MCU's Loki is MCU's Loki, allowed to diverge from or stick to the character they are based on as much as the story requires.
Playing the devil's advocate here; MCU's Loki is different from the mythological Loki in many ways - some big, some small. If being true to the source is so important, where is Loki's wife Sigyn?
Wait, there's actually people who think Loki not being a cis straight guy is "political correctness gone mad"? Have they never even glanced at a Norse myth?
people also think he is the brother of Thor and other nonsense
Have they ever glanced at any mythology ever?
@@asafupps nope :D
Ofc they haven't read a Norse myth, or any even semi-reliable history book! They'll tell you black people never set foot in Mediaeval England, & women have always had more rights than men, so reality doesn't come into it- they just dismiss anything they don't like as "leftist propaganda!!!"
@@beth7935 sad but often all to true :/
*Odin and Loki doing the twin spiderman meme while wearing dresses*
And then along came Zeus...
@@JackgarPrime XD
Don't forget that time Thor had to dress up as Freya.
There's a great story where Thor gets in drag to marry a giant who stole his hammer
Really hope this gets referenced in “Thor: Love & Thunder”
Still, in the whole story Thor was described as a man dressed as a woman (a rather fierce woman, according to the tale), while his handmaid Loki was directly described with words referring to him as her, so he'd probably shapeshifted. And that's sooooo Loki!
@@annalisalundberg4561 this is the part that I have been wondering about. Didn't Loki have a power to really disguise Thor? Or did he just not mention it so Thor had to go in drags? I Mean, that might fit his character
@@annalisalundberg4561 pretty sure he wanted Thor in a dress for laughs.
@@jorenbosmans8065 @J Wolf you are probably right. I don't know if that was a later addition to make fun of men dressing as women (it was done in many cultures, also for ritualistic reasons, we might think this was the case in ancient Scandinavia too)...there are so many things we have los, or that we cannot understand anymore... anyway, being Loki mischievious, not truly good, not truly evil, this is quite in line with his/her/their character, like "okay, I will help you, but just a bit. Afterwards, everybody loves a good laugh!"
"If it has a pulse..."
Look, we all know if Loki had met The Vision and/or Ultron, we'd probably have little Jotun cyborgs running around.
I don't think that Loki would be Vision's type.
Loki and Ultron, however, they might work out.
@@johannageisel5390 I have 0 doubts that fanfic exists.
Loki in Marvel: "yes, I'm bi"
Loki in the Myth: "what am I not, no man or god could ever comprehend my identity"
Fun fact, Loki can be celebrated on both mothers day and fathers day since he's both.
Omg. The fact their fight boils down to “you practice women’s witchcraft” and “you’ve given birth” makes me unreasonably happy and extra giggly
The Ancient Greek: "Yeah, that woman had sex with a bull."
The Old Norse: "Yeah, that god had sex with a horse."
Some people in South America: "Yeah, some women get pregnant from dolphins."
And
So
On
Humanity in a nutshell.
In the 90's in a town near me, a woman gave birth to a still born that was severely deformed and had goat legs and huffs.
@@LadyNikitaShark I think one of HP Lovecraft's books was about smth similar
Don't forget that time Zeus turned into a literal golden shower and got someone pregnant that way! Or the bird thing...or when he gave birth to Athena through his forehead...
@@JackgarPrime i guess that's why Zeus is kinda dumb, it's because Athena took his brain with her when she was born.
People were really kinky in ancient times.
No cultural figure/character that's spawned so many cats' names can be straight.
My dad always said naming a cat Loki was a bad idea. Can't remember if it was his or a friends
loki simply said " I do what or whomever I want" and frankly, while I don't understand, I still respect the energy.
The Laufey thing was appaently an honest mistake on Marvel's part. They compansated for this by naming Loki's bio mum in the comics Farbauti, which was his father's name in the mythology.
The comics versions of the characters were invented in the 1960s. I can only assume that without the research powers of the Internet, they took one look at the Norse mythology entry in an encyclopedia and based their stories off that. Another thing they got wrong was the name of Thor’s hammer: originally it was named Uru, but when someone pointed out it was called Mjolnir in the myths, Marvel changed it so uru was the name of the metal the hammer was made of.
Seems perfectly appropriate for Loki . . . Oh, yeah, my mum's called Fred and my Dad's called Sarah . . . Got a problem with that?
Loki's a shape shifter - they're not limited to human sexuality
It's simple, if you don't want to sleep with Loki, say so, but that doesn't mean Loki doesn't get to continue being a fantastic, ray of bright, shining chaos.
I think I'd probably sleep with Loki if I had the chance, sadly. Unless they were in horse form. I don't do that. But, c'mon - it's LOKI. It's like getting the chance to sleep with Apollo.
@@christineherrmann205 Think of all the things you could learn from such an experienced trickster!
... or maybe he'd just have really weird taste and it'd be a bit meh... but still, what a story.
@@christineherrmann205 I'm dying here! X'D I never thought "would I sleep with Loki?" was a question I'd ever ask myself, but considering the merits of a hookup with a god is perfectly reasonable imo, & yeah- I think "c'mon- it's LOKI" is where I'd end up too :D (Ditto NOT horse-Loki tho)
This should be the rule about other people's sexuality in general, really! "If you don't want to sleep with them, say so, but that doesn't mean they don't get to continue being a fantastic ray of bright, shining chaos with other consenting adults..."
He'd probably still find a way to convince you to have sex with him anyway.
Oh don't forget there was the female Loki form in the comics, too!
I read the title and thought, “ But Loki’s a shape shifting giant…. Why should human *anything* apply to him? He does what he wants!” It’s a comfort to know I was right… *and* I knew about the wolf and the horse! Glad to see my sketchy remembering of Norse mythology from when I was a child was more or less correct (! Clearly my book of myths wasn’t bowdlerised…)
I was going to mention that Sleipnir was in Thor 1, but it looks like people beat me to it, but I do want to mention that, though it is obviously still incorrect, the switching of Laufey to male was not done in the movies, but was done in the comics back in the 60s. Obviously this doesn't make it ok to erase a female character, but I wanted to point out that the movies were sticking to comic accuracy, rather than erasing a female character on purpose.
Also it seems to me, from your mention that it was completely fine to be the penetrator, but deemed bad to be the penetrated, that this stems from misogyny. I.e. it is bad to be the penetrated, because this is the woman's role, and being a woman is bad, vs it doesn't matter whether you penetrate men or women or both, because penetrating is manly and men are good! (Much like ancient Greece and Rome, and probably the root of a lot of homophobia now come to that)
Anyway, thank you for debunking Straight Loki (tm)!
I've always believed that Loki didn't have specific sexuality, but was just sexual in nature
People being upset with "bi Loki" weren't even paying attention to the MARVEL MOVIES! It's pretty heavily implied he has slept with Jeff Goldblum character on Thor: Ragnarok! He flirts incessantly with anyone! Please!
Thank you!
Then again, who wouldn't sleep with Jeff Goldblum?
@@anglerfish4161 Thank YOU!!
@@anglerfish4161 **GAG**
Or these people never actually read a book called “Prose Edda” and “Poetic Edda”
I appreciate both versions of Loki the mythology and the Marvel. Both are complex and fascinating. But I don't consider them the same character in my mind. I would love to see Marvel include more of the Norse mythology into the MCU. I think it's clear these dumb hateful people who are now taking issue with Loki have only seen the movies because there's plenty of Loki being Loki in the comics.
Also Tom Hiddleston was asked a while ago on a red carpet or premier if Loki was part of the LGBTQ and Tom said that in his opinion Loki was/is Bi... Like way before the show... And we know Hiddleston did his research. He absolutely love the character he plays.
While the little subtitles really are quite entertaining, it is slightly stressful to always skip back and press pause to catch and read them 😄😄
Yes, a few seconds longer please
It would be nice if they lasted just a bit longer
Yes agreed I’m thinking I’m missing info and rewinding is annoying
Have to agree on this one
Yeah
" If it's got a pulse, he'll sleep with it"---truly Norse
.There is no sexual identity, just sexuality.
Hurray!
Perhaps Norse sexuality had only one category: “Are you on top? Yes/No”
@@CourtneySchwartz What on Earth did they think about people who liked to switch it out, I wonder? Perhaps they had to count every time they had some, and then calculate what they had done more and put the mark on that box🤔
@@Sienisota "Bjorn, how many times have you been the dominant one?"
"Nineteen times with men, Twenty-four with women Sven."
"And how many times have you been the submissive one?"
"In the same encounter or in general?"
Love this! As an old woman who really doesn't know all the fancy terms for sexual identity, I have always preferred just "Sexual". Why paint yourself into a corner? Be free and channel your inner Loki!
I'm just shaking my head. People are only getting their "Norse Mythology" from Marvel and not actually taking any time to look into the source material. (Or as close as we can get) Loki will sleep with anything with a pulse. Clearly.
"Pulse" might not be a requirement.
@@davidcheater4239 I mean...one of his kids runs the Norse afterlife, so that's a valid point...
Even in the Marvel comics, Loki is both genderfluid and bi/pan. So they're not actually getting their 'information' from anywhere except their own prejudices
@@MsStBoom A lot of people aren't reading the comics, they're just watching the movies and are now being shown his non-selective tendencies. I know a few people that are being shocked by it all and I'm pointing them to the source material.
Despite my love for Norse mythology I have to say that you don't need to compare it with the modern media. The MCU and OG NM are two distinct universes quite different from one another, the only thing they share are the characters names and their roles and abilities. If we would to make them similar we would get: Odin being an adulterer, Thor as a angry murderer, a lot of animal god-children, a more accurate Ragnarök l and so one. That's why I find people comparing Norse Loki to the MCU Loki redundant. We need to judge the character as he is portrayed now than in the 11-12 century. And this character is awesome, fun, is played by a great actor and his sexuality perfectly fits his scheming nature. Most people that are negative about this reveal aren't anti-LGBT or think he should be straight, it's because the media, Marvel included, have a history of shoehorning such stuff , making it look more political than genuine, so it got to a point when a character is called LGBT people tend to see it as a political move to appease LGBT people and get quite annoyed with it. Feel free to tell what you think of this and point out anything I might've gotten wrong.
If very close-minded people need to see a perfected image of themselves in every character in every fantasy, how very boring and rusty from disuse must their own imaginations be?
So the Chinese? They cut out all gay scenes.
One translation I read about Norse myths, Thor said one should always assume Loki was the source of problem, it saved him a lot of time. I’m paraphrasing but that is a good thing to remember
Neil Gaiman's *Norse Myths*, "The Treasures of the Gods".
@@rachelboersma-plug9482 thanks! Couldn’t remember the name haha
Well, it will be true in a lot of cases. Just like majority of all things in Greek mythology is because Zeus couldn't keep it in his toga... ;)
Here’s a thought that Marvel probably didn’t intend…
Idea: Laufey is a trans man. Still him, still king, still birthed Loki.
@FlybyStardancer: idea 2 - all Jotun in the MCU are genderfluid and can alter their physical forms to match as desired.
@@lordofuzkulak8308 that is also a good idea!
Laufey is Lokis mother, Farbauti Lokis father.
@@lordofuzkulak8308 weeeelllll yes n no. We need some non magical trans people represented
p0etrygh0st we just need more rep and diversity in general. Prioritizing one over another doesnt help.
Bisexuality is a modern idea. In history peoples had ideas of what "a real guy" does and does not, but it is not the same as our modern term bisexual and it depends on times and culture.
It is however certain that both Loki and Odin certainly went far over what was the common viking sexual norms for a "real guy", they stood beyond that...
I´m a proud Swedish pagan(ish) Bisexual and I endorse this message!
💗💜💙
"He is an alien from Asgard [...] it's now a small fishing village an hour away from my flat." very much alien.
In Scotland there is a saying--'Out of the world and into Fife'... Hmmm...
@@janetmackinnon3411 st abbs isn't in fife its near eyemouth and the border with england
I didn't even blink when Loki said "A bit of both". Of course he does, he is Loki. I had forgotten about the horse thing, even though I read about that in grade school. I always figured since people of Asgard are gods, they would just do as they pleased, sexually or in any other pursuit they were involved. Just like the Olympians.
Honestly, I was more shocked disney actually had a sliver of lgbt rep.
Ahhh! You mentioned the Lokasenna milkmaid anecdote! I love the milkmaid thing because it's so juicy and yet so vague! They don't even really specify if he was married to a human man, other jotun or some variety of elf in translations I've read, just a vague, "he went to the underworld and bore children for eight winters." Which underworld??? People always go on and on about the horse thing, but they rarely mentioned the several other instances of him bearing children. I believe there was also a story about him having eaten the heart of a giantess and giving birth to "all the monsters." Like, ALL of them???
I really like that bit from Young Avengers as well, about it being more about sexual acts in Norse culture. It's as close a reference to the concept of Ergi as we are likely to get in a PG-13 comic book world. Which I believe was an accusation that you could "sue" someone for back in the day, an insult second only in severity to accusing someone of being impregnated by an animal. I am not a historian, so if any of this is factually wonky, forgive me.
We did the Eddas in school but this was much more lively and fun! And bonus for bringing up the "doing" sex versus having a sexuality thing. It's always good to remember that the idea of sexuality as identity is around a hundred years old, give or take.
More around 200 years. The labels we use today like homosexual/ hetetosexual are 150 give or rake a few years.
Sleipnir appears in the first Thor film. He's seen when Odin rescues the Jotunheim invaders :)
Huh. I have no memory of that. Guess I’ll have to rewatch (what a hard life, eh?)
@@LouiseWatson-Carver Sleipnir is a stallion, not a mare.
Of all loki's names I have seen, "mare's mother" is not one of them. The name Loki has with regards to Sleipnir is "Sleipnis fraendi" or "Sleipnir's kinsman".
Plus at no point is Sleipnir referred to as female in the Eddas. In fact, given that Norse was a gendered language, the prose Edda is explicit in stating that Sleipnir is a stallion:
"Sleipnir er baztr, hann á Óðinn. Hann hefir átta fætr."
"Sleipnir is best, that Odin has. HE has eight legs/feet".
And that's just one quote. You can look it up yourself but yeah.. Sleipnir is a dude.
Loki is too fabulous to be put into any one category
I do love that you went out of your way to look up some furry porn to illustrate that point.
Very odin of you, sacrificed yourself (i.e. search history) to yourself (i.e. video amazeballness).
So Loki is the predecessor of Captain Jack Harkness? Into everything and anything - good for them!
I was thinking the same thing!
Yes! Was just trying to picture a timey-wimey universe where Loki & Captain Jack crossed paths ….!!!
@@coburgcraftstuffc1194 Oh damn! I'd read that fanfic!
@@coburgcraftstuffc1194 Keep saying this kind of stuff and Disney may end up buying Doctor Who
@@MrSmiley81092 if they fire Chris chibnall then good. Let Disney buy it
So Loki is an omnivore that will sleep with whoever is attractive at that moment. Tricksters gotta trick.
Fascinating. Thanks for this. Happy Pride, by-the-by.
- Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown
No, bisexuality doesn't mean that you "sleep with whoever is attractive at that moment" and it doesn't make somebody a "trickster". I'm living with this biphobic cliches for some decades now and I'm honestly fed up.
@@couchingzone2615 I never meant to say that was the definition of bisexuality. No insult was intended, I'm sorry you read it that way. It was definitely not intended as such.
As Mister Viking said - Loki is not human. Our definitions don't apply. He, like Raven in the West Coast of Canada, or Coyote in the American South-East, a trickster.
Tricksters, if you check with Joseph Campbell, plays by their own rules.
@@couchingzone2615 trickster is a character or god archetype
I love that you brought up that lauyfey is his MOTHER, because I couldn't find ANYONE talking about it, and a hated it. She not mentioned much but SHE EXISTS MARVEL!!!!!!
The way you explained all this was brilliant, and just wonderful to watch. Also, the fact that ANYONE thought Loki was STRAIGHT??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA what world do you live in, because its not one of the 9 realms.
I wish I could hug you, just to say how happy I am to hear such sensible words. Thank you.
Two years ago I started following "norse pagan" and mythology channels because I'm interested in the stories and history of north and celtic mythology. But I wasn't aware that there is a very toxic part of the pagan community until about 6 months ago. I'm completely disgusted by people who use north mythology to justify their racism, homophobia and sometimes even Nazi ideology. That Richard Wagner did this in his operas in the 19th century doesn't mean, it's okay to do it on the internet today. 😖
It's horrible! Google norse pagan a few times and you run into nazies.
It is truly horrid
Genuinely they can get fucked. Naziism spawned in WW2 germany, Norse paganism had a much broader reach across several european countries. It never belonged to them and they just twisted it to suit their political narrative. It's a parasitic ideology, a tick stuck to our collective norse testicles and there are unfortunately too many people too stupid to tell the difference.
Technically Mythology ia open source. Anyone and no one "owns" it, even "nazis", who hapoen that killed far less than soviets but somehow soviets are the heroes lol 🥴
@@josephang9927 What? I don't know where you live but I've never heard anybody saying that the soviets are heros. 😅 And it doesn't matter if something is an open source or not. If you interpret any historical source in a way to justify racism or the suppression of any other group of people in the 21st century, you're a truly disgusting and sad human being.
All this stories are the reason why Loki was my favorite norse god when I was a teen XD
I very much appreciate this video. Ty sir. It had seemed to me that the MCU Loki flirted with Bruce Banner and others numerous times in subtle ways
I'm teaching a homeschool co-op class this fall on Norse Mythology for middle and high schoolers. This is such a great resource, and thank you so much for the further reading links. Loki is definitely going to lead to some interesting class discussions.
I love everything about this video! As a viking age reenactor: Thank you for referring to source material. Thank you for calling out idiots who judge others and want to claim parts of history as their own, even though they have no real knowledge of it. And thank you for making me laugh :)
The homophobes probably aren’t using texts written two centuries after the Viking period as a source - more likely they’re using a sanitised Victorian version (same for anyone who insists Achilles and Patroclus weren’t in a relationship in the Iliad) for their source.
Was the sex with the horse consensual? Not an expert, but if I’m remembering things correctly, in the version I’ve heard, he transformed into a mare to lure the stallion away, which he does so, and then some time later he shows up with Sleipnir and goes “this is my son”. Of course considering his powers it does seem unlikely that he was raped, but it’s probably still food for thought.
The whole ‘same sex sex is okay, but being the bottom is unmanly’ thing isn’t just limited to the Norse; for example, during one of his political campaigns, Julius Caesar’s political rivals tried to slander him by bring up a previous samesex relationship he’d allegedly had, but the slander wasn’t that he’d had a male lover, it was that allegedly Caesar had been the bottom in the relationship. Not knowledgable about Asian history but fairly sure you’ll find similar things there too, and probably also in American, Australian, etc histories too if we had more extensive written records of them.
I was also thinking about the Caesar and yes, it do seem that it was the "passive role" part that was the problem in both cases
True in later Mediaeval Euorope too.
I think It's more of the framing. If they showed Loki as he is in the myths(and not edit it to fit modern day P.C culture) It would be fine. He can actually shapeshift and become a female or an animal.He is not pretending he is something he is not. This fact is seen by Loki giving birth to Sleipnir. This is something no human can do(change sexes or species). Nobody can change their sex and fulfill the part of the reproductive cycle of the sex they change to. So If Loki changes into a Woman and is with a man that is a real woman having sex with a man. Just like Loki was a real horse. This isn't what will be shown though and that's the problem.
Loki is not someone to be looked up to. He is contrary to Order and is an agent of Chaos. The fact is that Loki is a shapeshifter that has sex with men and woman and Animals. The P.c Leftest and their allies Will leave all that out and instead say "see boys can like other boys" SOOOOOOO.........Boys can have sex with animals with that same logic. But they are going to cover up all that Animal stuff and the shapeshifting just to push their narrative. People always try and talk about the right hijacking our Ancestral religion but the left is doing it on a much bigger scale.
@@albertcook Some one should try looking into biology written past 1950. Loki is also listed as gender fluid, and is perfectly happy sleeping with any gender, as any gender, or species for that matter. Bi is very much a good description, the only arguably better one would be pan.
@@gaberielpendragon Stop projecting modern ideas onto an ancient society that didn’t have any concept of such things. He was a shapeshifter. Also he was forced by the gods to distract the horse or else.. There is also zero places that says he had sex with a man. It's people interpreting he being a "maid" for 8 years as an insult from Odin( weird huh? it was almost like it was an insult and shameful in the original text). This could just be that he was performing duties that were seen as a womans job.. But show me where in the original sources it says "genderfluid" I'll wait....Also show me any biology written past 1950 that shows a man can become a woman and give birth....or a woman becomes a man and impregnate a woman with his semen........I'll wait
I'm just stumbling across this wonderful video a whole year later. Loki is just awesome and so are your videos.
Loki is the bard of the party; "I f*** us into this situation, I will f*** us out of it!"
Now you are giving me ideas about a strange D&D multiclass with College of Whispers bard, Arcane Trickster Rogue and Trickery Domain Cleric.
Might be some Marvel influence there, but now I need to stop my mind from delving further into the mechanics of this.
You can be feminine and be dominant. You be masculine and be submissive.
You subtitle game today is ON. POINT.
Thank you.
And of course the people having kittens over this, claiming it's a "woke perversion of a manly Viking god", had never heard of Loki before the movies, or bothered to read even the Wikipedia entry for Loki at any point, let alone anything close to a summary of the Edas.
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If they're having kittens, who did *they* sleep with, I'd like to know.
I've not done much research on Norse Mythology, or read Marvel comics.
It was totally unsurprising that Loki isn't straight. I mean look at his outfit. ;)
Loki is Loki, always have been and always will be....beyond our understanding!
One thing's for sure though, you better keep yourself in Loki's good books! 😉
On a different note, how the (put your sentence enhancer here) don't you have more than 100K+ subscribers? 🤨🤔
"..a big sweaty daddy stallion..." I swear I'm going to have that tattooed on my chest. Thanks for that, love your vids.
*Queen Elizabeth: I love horses.
Loki: hold my beer...*
Glad to see you're feeling better!!!! And I hope I never know which paths your research for this video took you...
*Catherine the Great joined the chat
😶
@@mnk9073
oh
o h
O H WAIT YEAH
As always, brilliant! I'm hanging out in the comments with my popcorn hoping people show up to argue about this!!!
So far the only part anyone has been angry about was the mere mention of the word white!
@@TheWelshViking Well I hope it stays that way!
Hey man, looking and sounding better. Keep yer vitamins and some asprin.C-19 don't whip Vikings !
I named my motorcycle Sleipnir:)
Gods, I was drinking when the drawing of the human shaped horse was showed and I choked on my juice. XDDD
Your vids always help get my week to a good start, but THIS, it just makes my bi heart SO happy.
Haven't watched yet, but: people expected any Trickster god to be * insert whatever the correct term is for it anymore? * "normal"
Isn't Loki also genderfluid in the marvel comic universe anyway? Which leads to Thor calling him both his brother and sister? I'm by no mean a comic expert tbh, but with a bit of research I found "Though Loki has since gone back to being a male in the main Marvel continuity, The Tenth Realm established it's not that simple.
This 2014 comic book established that Loki is genderfluid".
In the mythology he also turned into a horse and gave birth to a eight legged horse named Sleipnir.
Loki is whatever Loki feels like being that day.
@@SusanYeske701 Yep.
Loki is genderfluid in the marvel series (episode 1 it can be seen in the documents that are shown)
@@josephienealina6258 So its staying on point with the original Norsk mythology.
Awesome. I was confused when people freaked out at the “genderfluid” label. I mean.. shapeshifter. Duh.
What's the music at 0:55 ? I have to go give it a listen !
Also : "If it has a pulse, Loki will sleep with it."
Does that mean
Jack Harkness is Loki confirmed ?
No, but they would almost certainly hook up if they met
It's Sosban Fach, Welsh music!
@@sonego9882 thank you, I hadn't realised it was the same track as the Welsh phrase of the week/now intro one !
A horse with eight legs, what could possibly go wrong? Still I guess he'd have a spare set... But never mind Sleipnir, where are Thor's goats?!
Thank you for covering this, I'd seen comments made from news articles, not read them because I was afraid of them being homophobic. I'm so happy you mentioned about Sleipnir and the great wall, really wished Marvel could make a nod to that somehow.
Edit: Spelling mistake.
whoever GENUINELY thought mcu loki was straight kind of had it coming 😂
anyone interested in a more gnc and not definitely straight loki should check out the norwegian Ragnarok series. It's pretty decent! (show wise, I cannot attest for the norse mythology accuracy lol)
Yes! It's a great watch! Seconded wholeheartedly
The most hilarious in this whole "debate" was a person on TikTok claiming Loki is a cishet guy who had a blue lives matters flag with Marvel Loki in front of it as a profile picture. I still might not be over it and it has been like a month since I saw that
Oh come on, Loki is the ultimate rogue. You don't think he couldn't come up with that disguise.
So this video is a range on nothing?
Yeeeeh! Good one mate, another banger of a video, fantastic, brilliant, showstopping!
Also, fantastic good educational material again! As an English tutor, I have to say I use your vids in my classroom here in Russia, and they are always a riot!!))
Thank you for this great video! I really appreciate how critical you are with the sources. Some scholars in Old Norse studies even question whether Snorri existed at all ;) And for you and everyone else who might be interested, check out the "Vikings Are Gay!" podcast by Amy Jefford Franks, it's a great introduction to queerness and Old Norse studies!
I don't do Disney Plus so I no longer can keep up with the MCU and Ive been avoiding social media so I hadn't actually heard they'd made Loki canonically anything other than a heterosexual cis man. Im happy to hear about it. Not surprised a bunch of people are upset cause its sadly the world we live in but oh well. More rep for marvel is something I am very down for.
I had already looked into the myths so this was a review for me. A greatly enjoyed refresher and how much of your personality and sass you worked in. Thank you for this!
I had a lot of fun explaining to my girlfriend all the things Loki has slept with in the mythology. I can’t believe how many people HAVEN’T actually read any of the myths who say they are into Norse mythology.
Set us all straight Jimmy, I love it!!
The prose Edda is fun to read ( my opinion) and I guess we all need a sense of humor nowadays 😁
Straight and straight, if I've learned anything from this video it's that it's far from straight
Thank you for this. I was getting upset about people being bothered by his "sexual fluidity/omnisexuality". I could have sworn Loki, by mythology standards, had done some weird ass shit
Fantastic video btw! The last line just killed me XD
I was telling someone about that story just last week. Loki getting pregnant is one of my favourite stories.
The first thing that popped into my head when I read the title of this video was *"HORSE"*
Is Loki bi, pan, omni, and more? Sure. Also, as you pointed out, non-human, so I don't even think those labels apply. Loki is also fictional, so I just can't wrap my head around anyone getting upset about this. Some people love to project their own insecurities onto everything. Either enjoy the stories or don't and move on with your life.
Love this! Everything I’d have said is already covered in the comments, so I’ll just add: fabulous to see you looking and sounding so good after your bout of COVID. Be well and happy!
If Loki spent eight years as a woman and bear children, who was this legendary man of unsung renown that drew Loki's attention and what became of Loki's demigod children ?
Bold to assume they weren't just bumping with every man they met!
@@TheWelshViking Why limit to every man ?
I met some overly intelligent ravens and coyotes over the years that just loved to pull pranks on people. I grew up in the countryside next to corn fields & forested hills with bob cats along with skunks for household pets.
In grade school, magic circles were just imaginary fun and games. But once I turn 13yo, things got really .. strange.
I've never seen any of your videos but saw this. Thank you for addressing this. People are ridiculous when they get upset about shit that's been like it is for thousands of years.
I wonder if men who were "submissive" could still be considered manly if they were power bottoms, though I'm not sure what that would mean for their tops. Equivalency?
I'm also not convinced everyone at a Pride Parade isn't a Norse God
My understanding of the term submissive as used in history was someone that was taken by force, not someone who either topped or bottomed by choice. They were not manly because they could not defend themselves against being taken against their will.
@@johnhenkel1828 I'm just talking about willing partners, just to be clearer.
@@korpsman3629 did you... watch the video? Because I'm fairly certain that's incorrect. Good try though
Yes, but that's a Christian law written by bishops and Christian kings, and totally irrelevant to pre-Christian Norse mores.
Oh, also, the child lover thing's an anachronism.
Strange how youtube recommendations work. I only started watching Loki today while hemming my latest reenactment kirtle and this video popped up.
Loved your breakdown, it was quite similar to how I've understood the Eddas. As a Scandinavian who grew up with Norse Mythology playing a big part of traditional folklore(in Denmark we still call barrows and passage grave "Jættestuer" = Jötunn's living room) I'm more than a little surprised if people are upset about Loki not being straight - I thought everybody knew "he" is up for anything, haha.
one time my friend who was doing an old norse module at uni spent like 20 minutes telling me about how interesting he found the attitudes to sexuality and gender in the mythology he was studying, i think he wrote an essay about it
so i was vaguely aware that this was a thing, i have no engagement in marvel films aside from watching thor one time tho
I can honestly say that this is the video I have been waiting the for since I discovered your channel. And it was exactly as glorious as I'd hoped.