Questioning Mormon learns REAL church history w/ John Dehlin + Carah Burrell
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- A first-of-its-kind video anywhere on the internet! Show some love to my dear friend Eve as she learns about and reacts to Mormon church history about polygamy and the reasons behind Joseph Smith's death in real time. Eve asks excellent follow-up questions! (I only have smart friends).
John and I give as many sources to corroborate the evidence as we can and hope Eve and the viewers check the links in the description to look up the info for themselves! All the information is explained in the simplest terms to be understandable and sharable with the people questioning in your life, too. This is a video for all Mormons or former Mormons who are brave enough to follow the truth, wherever it leads.
Follow Eve on Instagram. Alanis Morissette does!! / reclaiming.mom.brain
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Part 1 of this series: • Top Things Mormon Miss...
Part 2 of this series: • Top Things Mormon Miss...
Gospel Topics essay on plural marriage from LDS church:
www.churchofje...
Address of the Prophet: His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo: faenrandir.git...
In Sacred Loneliness book: tinyurl.com/bd...
No Man Knows My History book: tinyurl.com/4u...
Rough Stone Rolling: tinyurl.com/yc...
Council of Fifty:
www.josephsmit...
Gov Ford/Joseph Smith letters:
byustudies.byu...
History of the Church books: byustudies.byu...
"Who Killled Joseph Smith" from LDS church:
history.church...
Mormon Stories interview with Todd Compton: mormonstories....
Explanation of the Happiness Letter:
• Nancy Rigdon and the H...
Mormon Stories 1498: THE LIFE OF HISTORIAN FAWN MCKAY BRODIE WITH NEWELL BRINGHURST: mormonstories....
Text of the Nauvoo Expositor:
solomonspalding...
Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country: en.wikipedia.o...
These videos take hours and hours of research! Collecting all the sources for links is important but time-consuming! Ever since I quit my role as co-host and producer at Mormon Stories, I've been trying to make content that's never been done before, so if you find it valuable and want to help make it sustainable for me to do this content as a mom who also has laundry to do, please check out my links on where to donate to keep this channel running! Thanks!
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Hey Kara! (cara?) Never Mormon, former Christian here. You’re genuinely amazing and so smart. Don’t underestimate yourself, the fact you’re only 3 years into being an exmormon yet educating and inspiring so many people as a whole mother?! This is only the beginning for you. Keep striving towards your goals and don’t be afraid to not know everything.
PS: Comparison is the thief of joy. You’re young, gorgeous and have so much more experiences ahead of you. Wish you happiness and success! K byeee
@@tucuxi70 Just keep on praying, paying, and obeying, friend. You might well be the last Mormon left on earth one day soon.
By the way, how do you feel about Joseph Smith plural marrying other men's wives?
@@tucuxi70 lol
@@tucuxi70 You didn't listen to a single word in this video, did ya Sparky.
Do you approve of Joseph Smith plural marrying the wives of other active, faithful Mormon men?
@@tucuxi70 obviously your fighting against the LDS own statements which were hidden for long time , but live in the 21st century; not the 19th century cover up !
I’m not a Mormon but if Eve was my daughter I would be so proud of her.
I always volunteer to be 'the spare Auntie/Mom/Gramma who thinks you [you=anyone getting dumped by their family for such ridiculous reasons] are awesome." ❤❤❤
If you WERE a Mormon you'd hate her guts. That's the point.
No you wouldn’t. It’s sad what happens to people by their family when they go down this path….
And then you questioned religion in general and realized everything is a lie😅 history will set you you free
@@mcblu9344I think she gets that. She is comparing and contrasting. And you cannot speak for all family members. This young woman is questioning while she supports family members who left.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
Mark could always hit nail on head....
Another thing mark twain said " mormonism is a theological nightmare".
Ad hoc since it was MT who called the book of mormon chloroform in print, and I totally agree
Shut up! I converted because the missionary were hot. 😁
Exactly.. Modern Christianity as a whole has been fooling people with mind control and nonsense long before Joseph Smith was around
I was born and raised LDS and I remember how difficult it was for me to make the ultimate decision that the church was not the right place for me. I battled myself for 3-4 years before I feel like I fully accapted that it was not the right church
Being able to continually question your own beliefs and perception based on your ongoing learning is true humility.
The LDS church actually encourages that!
@@daixer3156lol
The church doesn’t teach that. I’ve been told several times in church not to read anything that’s not produced by the church concerning the church. They called it anti Mormon materials. But that was just a way to keep people from the truth.
Aren't Smith's early days as a treasure hunter, and the incredibly dicey story about finding and translating golden plates troubling to anyone, who, say, thinks about it for five minutes?
1:25:33 Beautiful sentiment and wording, Dr. Dehlin! I wish I could have you as a philosophy/theology professor. Much love to all three of you.
Carah, you got a new subscriber! ❤ I’m excited to watch the update (after I take a mental/emotional break 😂❤)
38:50, She looks so scared when she says "You're allowed to ask questions." You can SEE her fear and trying to make sure she isn't later in trouble for listening to this. It is literally her reminding herself that she isn't doing anything wrong.
Living when John and carah use the same selling pitch the missionaries are trained to use “ don’t take our word for it.” Such a great episode. Really good overview. Also so shocking how many active members do not know their own doctrine or church history.
Will you be putting on a seminar on doctrine and history of the church? Seeing how you appear to be so enlightened...
@John Lee no but considering you’re an apologist who is spending his time in “anti-Mormonism” you probably will be.
It's VERY smart of her to ask these questions! Good on her. I'm asking the same thing. I want proof. Not just someone saying so. I'm glad she's asking.
The “Still Mormon” podcast addresses this dilemma and answers these questions fairly and in great detail. Take a look!
This is wonderful, and I really commend Eve for asking all the right questions about sources. It's exactly what I did when I was exploring my own faith in college and ultimately decided to leave God and the southern Baptist church behind. Unfortunately, there is no strong singular figurehead for that faith to scrutinize closely - you have to go back to biblical history itself and the early formation of the church, which is so much murkier and nearly mythical in nature. In a way, I envy the availability of information for Mormonism. It provides enough rope to work with.
What a great topic! Something every investigator ought to see 💛💛💛
Thanks!
"Am I going to be excommunicated?" That stabbed me in the heart. Eve, I wish you the best on your journey.
Broke my heart.
mad respect for Eve. Living close to reality, that's where real happiness and genuine joy comes from.
Same. Immediate tears when she said that. This is why so many never question or look deeper.
I became muslim a few years ago n it was the best decision of my life ever..My Iife is way better now than before. I wish everyone who has not accepted Islam will at least try it, give it a chance... Read the Quran n watch/listen to some Muslim Scholar... U won't regret it..
❤❤❤
Mad respect for Eve, I wish my ex-wife had been as open to questioning the church as I was when I went through my crisis of faith. Ultimately, I was divorced and excommunicated for becoming an atheist. I hope Eve has a safer family environment than I did. If nothing else, she has a good friend to lean on, which is great to see.
One of the biggest aspects of a cult is the shame and "inability" to get out. Scientology is not any different.
@@AdamHaggerty-m6d - It's no different for people who believe in ghosts.
But religion is based on spirituality and correct principles as demonstrated by God, not based on worldly values. Cultish people exhibit cultish behavior. This can't be demonstrated for Mormons. People can try, but they'd need to lie, or else show examples of truly mentally ill people who seriously WOULD believe in Halloween ghosts in the same sort of way they would believe in Deity. That's how the world sees it. But such people among the religious actually don't exist - except for in the most infinitesimal proportions, the lunatics who DO believe in Halloween ghosts.
I seriously cannot fathom any person who voluntarily spends countless hours making idiot videos against a church which they despise for no valid reason which they can logically articulate - Their true motivations escape me on some level. But the most basic level is that they're EVIL -
Dude, they're not giving you Eve's number.
you were an atheist when you were in satan's church.
@@AdamHaggerty-m6dits a cult if you cant leave with your dignity in tact
The saddest thing in the world is when she asks, "Am I going to get excommunicated for learning about this?" That means you should probably already start trying to find a way to leave.
Why would a person stay once they realize who their leader is? Crazy to stay in the cult.
That hit me hard too. I felt for her . What wasn’t said …she realized that this will cost her all of her family and friends . The pain of what was not said but all three understood at that moment.
@Learningthetruth7 fear of being ostracized, losing family, losing community. Also, losing the entire structure you based your life on. There's so many people who want to leave who can't. You just gotta put the word put that there's community out there for those people, and people who wanna help them. More of those hold outs will get courage to leave. You just gotta be empathetic to what they may be going through.
@@Learningthetruth7 They brain wash you. The person doesn't even realize they are in a cult.
What about those of us who already know about this and are staying??
It is crazy that people think that the leaders of the church are infallible. We all aware imperfect, save the Savior, JESUS CHRIST.
Wow, cannot overstate the respect that I have for Eve's curiosity and vulnerability here - it takes so much fortitude to ask hard questions and listen to hard answers
Agreed!!
Y’all are so kind. Thank you. It means a lot.
Curiosity about 23 years late! Her parents should be imprisoned for child abuse and she should, too, if she stays with the morons!
I happened upon this episode 3 months later and came to comment the exact same thing! Any part of deconstructing a deeply held belief or any fundamental aspect of one's life and identity is so incredibly hard and painful. It's almost impossible for people to do. Just a willingness to have these conversations is admirable; doing it on a podcast and modeling a genuine desire to know and be open to what's true is an honest to god good deed ...an incredible show of emotional and mental strength, humility, and wisdom.
@@tingzing5668 it really is an absolutely frightening step to take forward, willfully. I really hope that education spreads faster and faster as to what’s behind these universal experiences in us humans as I feel it’s incredibly validating, gives a person an automatic community they’re a part of instead of this overwhelming feeling of being so alone in it & just gives a set of expectations of what they’ll likely experience, taking some/a lot of that fear out of the experience. That our innate curiosity has been so vilified as one of the ultimate threats to our existence is an absolute crime against our humanity. That our minds are so often hijacked through threat, whether it be overtly or, I think worse, through manipulation & soft whispers…is what spiritual death, murder even, truly is comprised of. So much undue suffering…and certainly not just in the LDS church. Nothing new here.
Watching Eve’s face throughout this video was such a journey and I can’t help but empathize with how hard this is. Big props to Eve for the courage to listen and learn so much in such a short amount of time. That was a lot.
Thank you ❤❤
@@everpearce Hi, Eve. I invite you to read my posts with links to info in this comment section. You are going through what my wife and I went through a quarter of a century ago. We were horrified at the aspects of church history that the church tries to prevent us from learning. Stay strong, and I wish you all the best. Is your husband taking this okay?
Eve is the face of courage and integrity.
As a teacher of research and writing, I find the sourcing and questioning of sources very refreshing.
I wish all videos would be this way. Talking and giving sources for statements. How amazing! Hope more RUclipsrs take up this format. Follow 2 more girls that do this format: Khadija Mbowe and For Harriet. They are two black girls, one American, and one Gambian-Canadian. It’s so nice to relax and take in information knowing that there was good research behind what is being shared. I also get to read way more. I’m rambling ❤❤❤❤
Eve is BRAVE for doing this interview. I know im a stranger- but im SO proud of her. It's not easy to question your own deepest beliefs, especially when it's all you've known. Keep seeking truth 👏👏👏
They said it themselves in this video, ppl have been excommunicated just for knowing and trying to share the truth. She’s risking losing everything just to find the truth. THAT is bravery.
Remember when they called christ a vagabond and executed believers as blasphemous monsters...... And yes .. cultist
So brave like I’m not a biologist but I think she’s as brave as the people on d day.
I agree I have a fascination with religion. I study it as an outsider. She was asked if she knew what cognitive dissonance was and she said I have lots of that. That type of self awareness took me a lot of psychotherapy, a lot of mushrooms and well into my 40s to obtain and she just has it. It’s amazing ….amazing young girl.
The information they get from research is just lies
I have a seriously traumatic memory of telling a 16 year old girl that Joseph was a polygamist. She angrily told me I was wrong, pushed back repeatedly (even rudely) when I tried to discuss it, and then cried when I showed her the church website. I don't know what happened to that girl (who would now be a woman), but I think about her often. It made me feel dirty to have to be the one to tell her that. I felt as if I was the one breaking her heart. I have to remind myself that I didn't do that, Joseph did with his actions, and the church did with their lies and half-truths.
Thanks you so much for taking your weakness and confusion out from among us. We would have thrown you out eventually.
@@johnlee1352wow that's a very unloving thing to say
@@ATD1990 Well, I just thought I would add to the very "loving" post about my faith...wow
@@johnlee1352 I didn't see anything hateful just because someone doesn't believe what you do doesn't make it hateful. Plus as a follower of Christ aren't we supposed to turn the other cheek.
@@ATD1990 Lies, half-truths, etc. No...I guess it was all loving...my bad.
Joseph wasn't losing his marbles, he was a classic case of a malignant narcissist. When they get called out or lose control, they double down on their supposed greatness.
Or a pious fraud. Have you read Dan Vogel’s biography on Joseph Smith?
@@Twobytee no, I have not. Not yet anyway. I was listening to a podcast regarding how JS fits the mold for those exhibiting Malignant Narcissism. It's pretty fascinating. I can find it for you if you like.
@@marklaymon6698 ya I'd like to check it out
oh yeah, classic malignant narc.
@@marklaymon6698 scary that he started a religion of which has millions of members and a lot of power and influence 😬🥺
I was rushed through the discussions because a Mormon man wanted to marry me. Whirlwind romancing me and I was given 6 weeks to plan my wedding ... I left the church after 5 years risking everything ... We are 2 months shy of our 31st wedding anniversary ... I'm told our marriage survival is rare.
And he’s still an active Mormon!?
@@haveTRUEtranSparencyEMiLy "I'm told our marriage survival is rare." implies that he is
Yeah, that sounds rare. I'm happy things are better for you
We're always glad to see the weak dross and offal leave the church. It makes us stronger and really seems to make the posers happy.
Impressively courageous.
I’m so proud of Eve ❤️❤️❤️ this is my beautiful sister and has been my only family member I can speak about things openly with since coming out as queer and leaving the church. She is so good and kind. Thank you Carah and John for creating this space while being kind and thanks to all you people commenting kind words to Eve. I know we all feel for everyone in a faith crisis rn
I'm so glad you two have each other!
Aw yayyayayayyay! ❤️❤️
Sending you and your sister caring thoughts as she goes through this. I am glad to see that at least one family member will be there to support her. Reading the D and C, especially the verses discussing polygamy, during seminary my senior year of high school is what led me out of the church. (And I only thought Joseph Smith at 14 or 15 wives at the time.) I am the only person in my family to have left but fortunately my spouse is never-mo.
❤❤❤❤ love you Karen. You’re the best.
❤️❤️❤️
What gives me hope is that despite eves conditioned brain tirelessly trying to find a way out of believing these difficult truths, she stays curious and listens. Her brain pushes back over and over yet she stays and doesn’t leave or shut down. That’s a strong spirit.
It’s impressive to me how well she handled all this new info in such a short period and on camera
My ancestor literally married a third wife from Sweden who spoke no English and he tried to abandon his first two wives and 9 children by heading to Mexico after the ban on polygamy happened. So disturbing. She was basically trafficked to be his caretaker in his old age since she had nursing experience.
WOW.
my ancestors 3rd wife also was Swedish & spoke very little English. He was 52 yrs old she was in her 20s.
Your ancestors weep for you.
This is basically why I have Swedish ancestry too
Did your ancestor leave a history or a diary? I would love to read it.
The back and forth of honest questions and honest answers about truly serious and important topics... this is incredibly refreshing and moving and wholesome, and powerful, even when the events discussed ended being so sad. Congratulations on your efforts to discover and share the truth. You three are awesome.
Thank you for all you do. I’m deconstructing from being a Jehovah Witness
When you "deconstruct" from Jehovah Witness, do you become an atheist, or do you go to another branch of Christianity? I've always wondered if people just substitute their previous faith with another.
@@declaredjeans7555it really depends on the person. Some people turn from religion, viewing them all is different shades of the same grift, and others find comfort in other religions.
Jesus Christ is the answer, the Bible is where you need to turn to, some books I recommend to help anyone is Evidence that Demands a verdict by Josh McDowell and then Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin
@@Mikewins904 stop harassing vulnerable people who are themselves just leaving a cult, and stop pushing your own religion down other people’s throats.
@@BlueberryBumblebees I will never stop sharing objective truth and the love of Christ
This feels like one of the most important episodes you have ever done. Eve asks such intelligent thoughtful questions, and the answers and sources are so readily to hand.
Best wishes on your journey, Eve.
❤❤❤❤ thank you 😢
I wasn't inordinately pressured into joining the Church by the missionaries. I joined when I was young and a friend of someone who was a member. We talked about the Church and I met with the missionaries in Tustin California in 1973. I ended up joining the LDS Church and got caught up in the "feels" by members with good intentions. As a single man in the military, I was "shopped" around so to speak to meet people's daughters. I ended up marrying a little over one year after I was discharged from the service.
It wasn't long before we started to have children (4 in all), and each of them became members. Fast forward 17 years, a separation and divorce, some really bad counseling from the local Bishop, and the cracks so to speak began to appear. I was involved in leadership positions, teaching classes, and learning more.
The more I learned, just like this dear young woman is finding out, the more troubling it becomes. After you step back and look at more details, not accepting simple glossed over answers, you begin to realize the many big lies that are told, from the main leadership, down to the local level. Some friendships dissolve, but after 22 years in, it was an amazing weight that was unknown to me at the time, lifted from me.
Personally, I recommend all members get past the veneer, and the home spun stories. Research should help if it's true, but as many are finding out, it's another mindless cult seeking to perpetuate itself, and its leaders will lie and obfuscate if necessary, to keep the machinery going.
Big lies? You don't give details. But wait, Is the glass half empty or half full? I'll take my "mindless cult" (not!) and the joy and peace I have found. When I get out here in "anti-land" to see what is happening, I find despair, bitterness, hatred, accusation, lies, carefully constructed semantics, missing information, secondhand accounts, use of unofficial sources as doctrine, straw-man arguments, ridicule based on a lack of knowledge of another time and culture, judgmental attitudes and anger. Sounds like the peace of God to me…(?) And no one is offering anything better.
Following Christ and knowing Him and the Father is a very personal journey that requires revelation to the individual. (Mat 16:17; John 17:3). It's not some facade to put on every Sunday, or about leadership positions, or if you taught Sunday School. It's building faith and a sure witness through study and prayer. It is not found in doubting, but in seeking. See James 1:6-8; John 6:61-69. It's also your choice, which is God-given.
Eve has all the makings of an amazing critical thinker. I hope she keeps asking those questions!
Eve IS an amazing critical thinker
She should ask God. Why ask mere mortals with hateful agendas?
@@daixer3156 Seeking the truth of history is hateful? Id lean toward a church hiding the truth for 150 years as hateful..
@@daixer3156in every one of your comments you are blindly defending the church. Did you even watch the video? Have you done your own research?
@@raigenhuss7030 yes, I've asked g
GOD humbly as a young man and got the answer str8 from The Man! So profound cuz I wasn't expecting it. But I can see you haven't even done that. You blame on human error of GOD your maker?
“Am I going to be excommunicated?” Just gut punched me. I just want to give Eve a hug. I was only Mormon for 5 years (convert, with my husband and 3 minor children, we all left at the same time too) but I really have empathy for those that have only know this their whole life and suddenly it is being turned upside down.
Eve, you are so brave and I really thank you for your honesty and openness and very good questions!
If you don’t mind my asking, how do you convert to something like this in the first place?
She should count herself lucky, but it's a typical drone question. She'll probably eventually follow some other false prophet (profit?) I hear catholics need some believers!
@@jflivingston do you get off on being an condescending cynical cunt?
Seriously....Did you miss the part on they don't reveal the truth.
@@Janiceleatham2112 A hell of a lot ruder than the comment to which you objected! Anybody worried about excommunication from any religion is absolutely a brain dead drone!
I have so much respect to Eve for being brave enough to do this, even more so for doing it in a public forum. It's devastating to have your world view shifted like this, especially when it's something that literally your entire life, your family, your morals are rooted in. I hope the best for Eve in the future
Ex-Mormon myself, and I can see the exhaustion settling in on Eve as the interview goes on and things really hit her. Proud of her for taking this step and wishing her the best.
This will take all confusion away!
ruclips.net/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/видео.html&feature=share
Go Eve ❤❤ I can also see her pain 😢
This is hard for her and hard to watch. Lots of very nice people are being lied to by cults of all kinds-political, business, religious, personality. People who are born into it have no where to stand when they realize. Having help on the outside, and compassion, is really important.
@@justkiddin84Truth of the highest order there, friend.
I think that even beyond the goodly people, there are those behaving wickedly BECAUSE of this obfuscation and it’s false teachers. So even those who appear to be acting unseemly may come into the light of unity against the subjugation of our peoples.
I felt bad because when my husband was stationed in Idaho we had an LDS neighbor and I think I caused their divorce. She was totally obsessed with LDS and her husband seemed miserable. One day discussing the church i said "Garth. D you REALLY believe you'll be a god??" He got depressed and said "I gotta get outta this mess" we moved off base to a home in town. We purchased it. I saw him a few months after that happened and they were divorced. He did look happier but I still felt bad
Can’t we just make a billboard in Utah saying did you know the man who help write the Book of Mormon was excommunicated for telling about Joseph smith’s affair Omg
🤣🤣🤣
that might actually work put it up in Salt lake city near the temple they have.
@@MrWeezy312 I’m super close! I wonder how much it would be!
Gotta find one the church doesn't own.
I’d chip in on that. I live in N. Utah.
I love Eve sm. She's from my mission and she's one of my dearest friends❤❤ it's definitely a hard journey but so worth it. She demonstrates such intelligence, kindness, openness, authenticity, vulnerability and courage. You are so loved Eve! 🐈
I’m pretty sure Eve was in my ward at BYU. Regardless, I admire Eve’s courage for opening her mind. Questioning the faith of my upbringing (and eventually leaving it) is the hardest thing I’ve ever done
You already out? I’m learning a lot of things
This is one of the best videos I’ve ever watched on Mormon history. I think watching someone question in real time brings a relatable element to it. I’ve been an exmo for 10 years and I still found myself saying “wtf” to the info on Joseph Smith Lol Amazing job, Carah! ❤
Yeah, this is a great format. Use GTE's as your best faithful resource Her poor head is going to explode.
She is brave. Must be sp hard for her.
When I left tge RC church it was tough. Can sympathize.
But finding Jesus and committing my life to Him was worth it. John 3:16
Move forward! 😇🙏💗
Whole decade later and here you still are...pathetically bashing a faith you claim to have rejected all that time ago. You sound like you have unfinished business with the Mormons. You need to move on already.
@@johnlee1352 personally I would be embarrassed and angry that people I should have been able to trust purposefully lied to me and my family for decades and decades. Once the church has raped you I'm pretty sure you're not going to forgive and forget.
I really appreciate Eve’s vulnerability & honesty. I mean, for real, this is no small thing. Correct time code: 38:36 - “Am I going to get excommunicated?” That broke me. Made me sad for her & angry at the system that instills this kind of fear. Am I going to lose my family, my marriage, my kids, my community or my salvation because I learned things the church has on its website & read books from its own bookstore? Physical & sexual abuse is illegal, and sometimes even emotional abuse can be assessed in a court of law. But spiritual abuse? Why is spiritual abuse legal? I can guess why, that question is somewhat rhetorical.
This video is going to help many, many people. For reals. Thank you Eve. Thanks Carah & John as well, stellar collab per usual. ❤
❤❤❤
Joseph did not wish to bring forward plural marriage. An Angel came to him telling him he would be replaced if he didn't.
My great aunt, Emma Price died in NAUVOO because she could not take care of herself. She was single and 18. Single women, were brought into families, given legal rights, and children. My great grand father was asked to bring a another wife by his first wife into their marriage as a second wife. You talk about sex like it is dirty. It is not when under the covenant of God.
@@richardprice9979 There’s no dirty sex under the covenant of god? None? BoooorrrinG
@@richardprice9979 You missed the whole point... In a nut shell, it's all made up. Joseph was just like any other cult leader. I hate to be the barer of bad news (not really) but there was no angel that came to Joseph. I am sure there were people who died because they couldn't take care of themselves... That still happens nowadays. But I don't have to marry and have sex with the people in order to help them.
@@richardprice9979 If you believe Joseph's story about the angel threatening him, you deserve to have 10% of your income extorted from you for the rest of your life.
Please give Eve lots of aftercare and integration support somehow. She is drinking from a firehouse here. What a brave, brave soul.
It’s so great coming back to this knowing she’s out 🎉 🙌 so brave Eve. You have my deepest respects for doing what you did. Great job!
How do you know she’s out? Just curious
A man does not have “ an affair” with a 16 year old servant in the barn. It was rape then and now.
But God dm’ed and said it was chill.
this video was so cool as a never mormon to get all the explanations this way. If possible I would love an update sometimes with Eve to see how she felt afterwards
Yes!
Wished they would bring out these so called sworn affidavit and journals the speak of. Cuz it's all hearsay still from at this point.
There actually is an update on the channel!
I'm not your regular Mormon. I'm your cool Mormon 😎
People have said the internet is a "bad thing". Well, that "bad thing" is what helped me become free of being in an Evangelical cult growing up. The truth shall set you free!
Every time I hear that verse, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free," it makes me want to scream "that's not how truth works!"
The internet is like many things. There's bad that comes with the good.
I know this is very late, but in case you ever see this, Eve, you're absolutely incredible. You're so intelligent and courageous to upend the foundation upon which your life was built. We out here love and support you through your faith crisis.❤
My heart goes out to Eve. She has such a wide range of emotions, from disbelief, incredible sadness, curiosity, just trying to process information, etc.
IF SHE WANTS THE TRUTH, I GOT ONE BIT OF ADVICE FOR HER, READ YOUR BIBLE ALL THE TRUTH YOU NEED IS IN THERE, AND IT DOES SAY WE ADD NOTHING OR TAKE AWAY FROM IT, WHEN ANY CHURCH USES A BOOK, BESIDES THE BIBLE TO BASE THEIR FAITH, ITS A CULT!!!!!!! PERIOD
When Eve started talking about the difficulty of finding out the truth about the church, it hit pretty hard. That's exactly what it's like. The foundation you built your life on crumbles and you wonder who in you family will leave you behind. It brought tears to my eyes dammit
I have been a Latter Day “Aint” since 1996. I was a convert to “The Church” in 1983. Watching Eve’s facial expressions and eyes, and particularly listening to her line of questioning during this conversation took me back to when I had my own “awakening”. I was right there with her. It was painful. I knew I was watching the foundation of a persons core beliefs crumbling. Everything she has based her life and life choices on being ripped from her soul. She was so stoic. Her family, her friends, her husband, her reason for getting out of bed every morning suddenly all had a giant question mark on them. “Will I be excommunicated?” Could also have been followed by “will my family, friends, husband etc. abandon me? Where do I go from here? What do I do? What is my purpose? WHAT HAVE I DONE!?” We all want the truth to be known. We all want lies exposed. We all want our LDS brothers and sisters to know the truth and be out from under the heal of “The Church” but this was sad. Necessary but very sad. On the other hand the truth WILL set her free so there should be joy. For Eve (and every LDS person who goes through this) that joy can be a long time coming. It’s a joy that is preceded by a great deal of hurt. Eve, I have never seen anyone handle this information and the possible ramifications with so much grace and courage. God bless you! Better days lie ahead. Please keep that in your mind and heart.
Are you part of another denomination now, or… no?
@@atxwelder1589Still waiting for the answer to that one.
@@charisma-hornum-fries The thing about denominations is they are all wrong. There is no point changing them since the one you join is as wrong as the one you left so you might as well not go through all the bother and stay where you are.
@@frankclough380 i was just going to say that. It's like these people leave mormonism. That's great whatever. But like whenever I hear someone say I left mormons to be x,y,z, christian I just slap my forehead and think hmm. It's like some people bring up great arguments against mormons. I've thought long about them. But it's like sure mormons did polygamy. Leave the church that's awesome, but for the love of god put down and quite being a bible thumper, too. It's like people forget judah had his two sons murdered by god for not impregnating their sister in law committing incest. It's like that's way more cultish than anything i've seen in mormonism. It's like WTFZZZ? Then judah knocks her up as she plays a harlot, and judah wants to kill her but shes like hey dude. I got the stick or some stuff of the dude that knocked me up and it was judahs crap proving he really should have been killed along with her since they both fornicated or did adultery. I don't know if judah was married at the time can't remember. But it's like how can someone leave mormonism over big issues, but then totally be fine with just as big issues or worse in the bible. It's like man talk about cognitive dissonance like mental gymnastics.
Then ya got moses being a magician and jews and the kaballah believing in like 26 gods in some groups. Makes me wonder did jesus grow up in some weird beliefs like that since he was a nazarene taking oaths there.
@@frankclough380not true. Seek a church that teaches from the Bible. Period
Goodness, I am so impressed with Eve and so proud of her. My own deconstruction was a slooooooww burn. I felt for her so much during this interview.
Her crying at the beginning absolutely tore my heart. It reminded me of when I first learned about the church not being true & realizing everything I've been taught is false. My heart goes out to her. I appreciate all the questions she's asking.
It's got to be tough to realize that everything you believe is a scam. Did you figure it out all at once , or was it gradual ?
@@rottweilerfun9520i would imagine that once the evidence became overwhelming that some of it was false, it immediately became apparent that it was all false. I mean, you either believe something or you don't. At least, that's how it was for me and catholicism.
I can't imagine anything better than having it demonstrated to me that everything I know is wrong, it would be fantastic! I would be like "bring it on, tell me about this higher level of knowledge that outclasses that which I already know". I would be a better person for knowing something I previously did not and would be happy someone shone light in my darkness. Why should anyone be unhappy about reaching a higher level of knowledge when the opposite is true, enlightenment is cause for celebration.
frankclough380-Moronic take. It's like finding out at 25 your mother,father,4 sisters aren't actually related to you and your entire life has been a lie.
@@S.M.E.A.C It's how I regarded my exit from Roman Catholicism. Why get miserable about leaving idiot garbage behind and gaining a better understanding of and approach to reality?
My Fourth Great Grandpa was one of those in the high council who submitted a sworn affidavit in the Expositor confirming that Hyrum revealed polygamy in 1843 to the high council. He was later cut off for apostasy. I am proud of him for speaking for speaking out.
Wow! He mist have been very strong in his morals.
I was so proud when the church excommunicated me. It was a breath of sweet🎉 freedom.
Thanks for leaving. Your weakness and confusion is not missed.
@@johnlee1352your religion is fake and made up by a conman
@johnlee1352 I can tell from your single comment that the op made the right decision to leave, if that is the response they can expect
@@supertouring22 The OP made no decision...he was thrown out... unceremoniously booted from among us. Sweet freedom for him and blissful absence for us.
I'd love an update on Eve and how she's feeling. This is such a heartbreaking situation. Deconstructing the church is incredibly sad and difficult.
Carah did an update on Eve tonight. Eve left the church and is happy.
I hope everyone here becomes a Christian (we don’t recognize the Mormons). She was never wrong that Jesus is Lord; she was only wrong on what that meant. We believe Jesus _is_ God, and our forefathers after Christ’s Ascension were all killed declaring that.
@@disguisedcentennial835You don’t speak for all Christians. You may not recognize Mormonism as a Christian sect, but other Christians (including me) certainly do.
I am a Never Mormon and I lifelong Christian. But that gives me no right to say who else is Christian or who is not. And this is no place to proselytize. It isn’t helpful for people grappling with their own deconstruction and it actually does the opposite of what you intend. It’s disrespectful and pushes people away.
I hope everyone here chooses whatever makes them happy. Life is too short and afterlife is not certain
@@YogiTheBearMan life is short in the face of eternity, and what you do in this life will have repercussions on the thereafter. Christ’s reign _is_ certain, and so is his love for you.
Thanks!
I have no reason to watch these besides curiosity, but I found this episode particularly interesting. I hope Eve will be invited back many times for her questions and perspectives. I have never done this before, so I'm not sure what the etiquette is.
Have a fabulous day!
Thank-you! I was alone in my conversation and exiting of the LDS church from 17 years old to around 27 years. I’m now 58 and listening to you has comforted me. My awakening was in my mid 20’s when I realized what was supposed to a quickening of the spirit was actually what I call my liedar. This feeling that I couldn’t ignore would happen every time my husband (now wasbanded) would lie to me. Boy, did I feel foolish! I have repented (giggle) from foolishness and am continuing to recover. In my mid 30’s some missionary’s knock on my door and I let them come in. I informed them them that I had no interest and have already been through it all. They were very kind. They listened and asked if there was anything they could do for me. I said sure, “could you get my name removed from the church?” And they helped get that done. My life has been amazing ever since. I’m grateful for those two good guys who knocked on my door that day.
i’m shocked they did that for you! i hope they are doing ok ❤
I'm a convert who has escaped. This is all so good to see.
Eve is so smart! Great questions and answers from everyone. As a lifelong member of 36 years, I am just now learning the truth. There is so much information in the Gospel Topics essays alone that I never knew because nobody taught it or talked about it in the church. Reading the essays about plural marriage set off all kinds of alarms in my head like, "Wait, what?! That doesn't make sense. And this doesn't make sense." and on and on like that throughout the essay. Then I started deep diving into the actual history of the church and discovered that everything I was taught was a lie! My world shattered, and I am still picking up the pieces. But I am glad to know the truth now, because the truth is ultimately more important to me than anything else. Bottom line: I'm done with Mormonism. I can not align myself with a religion built on sex trafficking and racism.
Congratulations! And…..Be wary! A whole lot of things are based on sex trafficking, racism, and greed. Like a LOT of organizations. When you start following threads it gets scary.
There are some really good podcasts which highlight all that. Conspirituality, OSS (Our Strange Skies), and The Nonsense Bazaar. Warning for language and adult conversations on that last one.
The UFO community, the ‘New Age’ community, and many others are based on some really awful people and practices. And, like in the LDS, the folks within very often have no idea.♥️✌️
I learned the truth reading Under the Banner of Heaven in 2003. There is no unlearning when your eyes are opened.
Remember when they called christ a vagabond and executed believers as blasphemous monsters...... And yes .. cultist
The Old Testament is full of stories' much worse than these. We are human, Church leaders are human, to expect more from them is to try to make them more than human, they are not. If man were perfect we would not need Christ in our lives, show me one Church that does not have horrible tales in their history. There are good Mormons and bad Mormons, there are good people in all Churches and bad people in all Churches. A wise man one said, never judge a book by its cover.
Ya so smart, smarter than chat gpt. Not as hot as chat gpt but still smart
The look on her face, her sigh,… ugh. My heart breaks but I’m so proud of Eve for facing this and sitting with it. ❤
LDS missionaries black listed me years ago because I did my homework (I have family who are temple presidents, mission presidents, and bishops and I’ve asked for all the literature they could give me). I never joined the church, but had a hand in helping others out of the church (including missionaries which is why I was blacklisted). Keep up the great work!
Good for you! I know I look at them missionaries differently these days. As a kid I thought they were dorky and annoying. Now I'm sad because these guys are mislead, misguided, and misused. I hate when people's ignorance is exploited.
How can I help others out of the church?
Thank you. there were many people on my mission that helped me learned to question things, even though it took me like 15 years after my mission to really open my mind.
One person pointed out that what I was saying was “circular logic”. Many pointed out that humans are emotional, you can’t trust your emotions to tell you what’s “true”. Using the same logic, Muffasah is a prophet because I felt the spirit while watching Lion King.
One person who told me we worship a man, and he was right!
The majority of people who stopped reading the Book of Mormon when God tells Nephi to kill someone.
The majority of people who never came back to church after they witnessed a testimony meeting.
To all these people, thank you.
How were you blacklisted? You make it all sound to sinister and "in the know" with secret sources from insiders.
@@rascal342 How about letting people make their own choices?
Ex-mormon here. It's not just converts and missionaries not told a lot of this. They keep it from a lot of devout members to keep them devout. It is part of the business model. Recently our bishop (I still get emails every week from the local ward) was concerned about my not tithing and actually said, if it's a matter of choosing between food and tithing I should choose to tithe so I can go to the temple again and because they can allow me to use the bishops storehouse or cannery (I guess it's now called a Home Storage Center).
I have never been asked about tithing in all my Protestant church going.
Edit: not individually. Of course sermons on it
Damn I am only 10 minutes in and I am already crying. Thank you for being so vulnerable Eve, learning these things is so scary it’s so nice to know that others had my same reactions. Can’t wait to finish the video❤️
❤️❤️❤️
❤❤❤ you’re welcome. Sorry we made you cry! 😢
Thanks you so much for taking your weakness and confusion out from among us. We would have thrown you out eventually.
@@johnlee1352 You are so mean.
@@everpearce I am also accurate. Sorry you were led out of the church. Now that you're out, I wish you well in the unaccountable life you've chosen.
John is so funny when he’s correcting Cara at the beginning “that’s so harsh!!! maybe try…. ‘are you excited to reconsider certain positions?’” you can tell they are such good friends with such great rapport! love the Cara/John dynamic
Which one is John? Also is that a Christian name?
John turned the tables by the end with his strawman questions and relished in piling on when she had sincere questions.
Looking at Eve reminds me of how I met my wife.
She was in the cult, her mother brought her there when she was 7.
She even studied the private school in the Cult, where they taught her all the weird conspiracy theories.
When I met her, we were in our late 20s, and she had her doubts, but most of her peers were from the cult so she had no one to talk to about it.
And we were talking in length about things she was brought to believe in. And it was genuinely scary to see how her whole world was collapsing. All the things she thought were solid foundations were crumbling under her fingers. All the straws she was grasping so desperately turned out to be a rotten mess.
After all of our discussions she was so exhausted, she cried on my shoulder for hours. That was heartbreaking.
And in the process, we fell in love so bad, that even a decade later, I can't believe that we are so lucky to have each other.
Very beautiful bro ❤
Always be cautious around those who say “don’t ask any questions, ever.”
We are told to question everything. I have always been inquisitive.
I have known all of this and will continue to be a strong member of the Church of Jesus Christ and a follower of the Savior.
@@Famr4evr Honest question: With what doctrinal questions have you actually confronted the leadership? Have you ever really pressed the leadership of the LDS church to back up certain doctrinal claims? In my experience, it's really easy to say "we are told to question everything" and, at the same time, not question things because the leadership makes it seem like certain things are beyond any question. By the way, I am not a Mormon, but I have seen similar "truth control" tactics in the Evangelical Christian churches that I have been a part of. If you press the leadership on certain things (usually on money issues), first they will give you really surface level information. Then, if you ask for more detailed information, they will ask you why you want to know the information (as if you are wanting the information to expose something that they are doing). Then the last tactic is usually to tell you that you need to shut up and just trust the Elders of the church because they are placed in a position of leadership over you. That last part is a really good tactic to keep people from really asking questions.
@@budoboy1977I always found these stories of churches hiding the finances from member really interesting.
When it was tax return time, my father who is a pastor, would ALWAYS give a detailed break down of the church’s income and expenses including percentage given to him as personal income
Be even more cautious around those who say "Ask us lots of questions, but we are the only trustworthy source".
@@budoboy1977 That ain't how it works and this gal doesn't just blindly follow. The Spirit can confirm or give warning. Sounds crazy? Probably. Like describing colors to a blind person.
ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS: year of polygamy podcast starts at josephs first wife and goes in order episode by episode. lindsay hansen park the creator of YOP reads directly from sources and it blew my mind. ESSENTIAL PODCASTS =year of polygamy, mormon stories, john larsens mormon expressions and bill reels mormon discussions especially the episode on seer stones and folk magic- 1000s of hours of podcasts deconstructing mormonism. ❤
Yes! I second Year of Polygamy!
Excellent podcast full of the facts, it will be such a quality resource in this instance.
Going to listen now! Thank you so much.
Can you give us a link? I can't find it, please
@@nancid5265 you mean the mormon "god" who told Emma he was going to destroy her if she didn't let sex predator Joseph Smith marry more women? Including 14 year old children? (D&C 132)
Eve is a very brave woman. My heart broke for her when she asked if she was going to be excommunicated. No one should ever have to fear knowing the truth. It makes so ANGRY on her behalf.
Why is cutting and running a "brave" thing? Only weakness...
@@JohnDLee-im4lo - Her appearance on camera while she and her family, save for her sister, are still LDS is very brave.
@@MossyMozart I'd say reckless and hurtful to her family...
@@JohnDLee-im4lo well you seem to consider being unkind on the internet brave, so I'm not taking your opinion as worth a lick 😂 I look forward to God punishing you 🎉
@@johnlee1352 or an act of love so that her family can see reason too.
Eve could not have handled this conversation in a better way. She absolutely killed it. She was open minded to what she was being told but was asking the proper questions to see how well those statements would hold up. I hope she did a deep dive after this and realized that it’s all true. And hopefully, if she does leave the church, she is able to do so as painless as possible. I know what it’s like telling your Mormon family members that you’re not Mormon, they tend to be extremely harsh and judgmental from my experience. Wishing her the best!
Eve seems like the absolute sweetest person, she's actively having her world turned upside down and when John talks about being excommunicated himself her immediate response is to show him empathy. I'm so glad that you have Cara as a resource and wish you the best as you come to know your truth. I grew up a strict catholic and it took having our local pastor (who my Mom wanted to mentor me) abusing vavrious children for my parents to see their hypocrisy, best of luck Eve!
You can see her immediately mentally put herself in his shoes, knowing how she would feel if that happened to her ❤
I feel so deep for her: that was a rough day for me and I'm glad I didn't go through it on camera. She was very brave to agree to this and I hope through her courage others are saved.
You do not have to renounce Catholicism in order to denounce the conduct of some of their priests. Their behaviour does not make the religious doctrine untrue.
@@lisbetsoda4874Jesus is Lord, and that's the truth.
"The truth will set you free, but not until it's finished with ya." Truer words NEVER spoken. 😄
It's easy for a non Mormon (like myself) to be able to look in from the outside and recognise the craziness of any organisation like this. But surely we can all appreciate growing up with a set of beliefs and being shocked to have those called into question or even eradicated. It is a lot to take on and I think that Eve was a trooper for getting through all of this (and having some great questions. I was particularly impressed with Eves need to refer to authenticated primary sources). It was a hell of an info dump for anyone to endure.
Too few bother to ever question what grandma taught them.
True but Mormon beliefs are totally bizarre and contradictory not to mention Joseph Smith who was a total conman.
Plus, honestly just like any successful "cult", they tie your loyalty to the well-being of your family & their entry into heaven. The guilt, responsibility & excommunication from your family is usually concurrent with separation from the church. It's like being tossed out into the wilderness, evicted from your tribe. Even the emotional abandonment is secondary to the likelihood of your physical survival.
@@Loralanthalas, right?! I still follow some of my grandmother’s superstition rituals, even though I deeply know how silly they are. At least they’re harmless.
@@jeffreyyoungblood7438Most beliefs systems have beliefs that seem bizarre to outsiders. For example, that communion wine actually becomes the blood of Christ.
There are a great deal of similarities between Mohamed and the beginnings of Islam and Joseph Smith and the origins of the LDS church.
- Mohammed was performing a ritual in a cave when he was approached by an "angel." Joseph Smith was praying in an orchard when he had an angelic vision.
- Mohammed was a womanizer who took liberties with other men's wives. Joseph Smith was a womanizer who took liberties with other men's wives.
- The validity of Islam is dependent on the honesty and integrity of Mohammed. The validity of the LDS church is dependent on the honesty and integrity of Joseph Smith.
- Both men composed their own versions of scripture.
- Both religions claim they exist to correct the world after a great apostasy.
- Both men's lives end in shameful defeat in a way.
- Both men claimed to be prophets.
The list goes on.
I was raised mormon. Haven't been to church in years because as I grew up I just felt the ick learning the same lessons over and over. Your channel is shedding so much light on things.
Thanks for staying out...your weakness and confusion are not missed.
@@johnlee1352So many Christ-like comments coming from you. Hope this internet crusade felt good. You're totally one of the stripling warriors now 😂
The just and righteous do not fear exposure, they WELCOME exposure, examinations, questions, exposure.
Because they do NOT have any secrets, shame, lies, crimes or evil to be exposed.
Only criminals, cons and grifters feel anger and a desire for revenge when the reality of what they really ARE is exposed.
"You will know them by their fruits".
The fruits of abusive, arrogant abusers and narcissists is anger at the exposure of their con, and desperation that their narcissistic supply is threatened.
"When someone shows you who they REALLY ARE, believe them."
@@johnlee1352stay in your cult 😂
@@johnlee1352 just goes to show how the cult can make a person be....uncaring and cruel. You just sunned by putting someone down and being unkind. You just judged and shamed someone. You better make an appointment to see your bishop. What you have done is worse than drinking coffee. I see you are miserable. We are now free.
It’s sometimes hard to put myself in the shoes of those going through a faith crisis because I have been out for so long. But I keep tearing up listening to Eve hearing stuff in real time. My heart goes out to her…. and my heart goes out to all my people who are going through faith crisis… and all the people who will learn things in the future and have their worlds crumble.
We’re all victims of the trauma stemming from the lies and secrecy that started with JS.
❤❤❤
Eve was a great guest. I wish her good luck no matter which life path she ends up heading down
Thank you ❤
@@everpearce - Please remember that it is a long-standing church policy to "lie for the Lord", as you have well learned during this conversation and they undoubtedly taught during your missionary training. Do you REALLY think that the Jesus would want you to lie for him? I do not.
I think it's cool that she questioned everything so heavily for sources, because I think those are a lot of the questions that people who are leaving would have and it helps to see that broken down. Would've helped me for sure.
I was born into a religion that was created in the same “burned over” district of New York. I remember learning about the Mormon faith and wondering how anyone could believe any of it. Then I started comparing it to what I believed and suddenly realized that I may be suffering from the same grift. I owe those who have worked to expose Mormon faith for finding my own truth. Thank you for the work you’re doing.
Good job! Open minds make change for good! ♥️✌️
That is a perfecto description- religion is such a grift.
There's only one that came out of the same area. I know what it is but I'm curious as to why you didn't mention them by name.
Okay I may be reading far too much into this, but at around 38:45 the response Eve had there came off as absolute fear. Seeing that intense fear of repercussions from a community that is meant to love you, from a 33 year-old woman? That is fucking heartbreaking.
To me .. that’s a cult hallmark .
Agreed. I had to hit pause around 36 minutes because her fear was already so palpable. "Guess what happened to her?" "She was killed?" I was terrified and I already knew about Joseph Smith.
That was super fascinating! I feel for Eve. I remember all too well that dissonance feeling when I was deconstructing out of the strict fundie religion I was in. It's was stressful and exhausting. 4 years of living free now 😁 Thank you for being interviewed, Eve 😀
❤❤❤
I wish Carah and John were around some 40 years ago, when I (as a newly returned missionary) began realizing I'd been lied to, and that I didn't believe the church's claims anymore. Having such impeccably researched information and sources would have been really, really helpful. But I'm glad you're around now to help others! Keep it up.
To Eve...you're very brave, and I'm really grateful for your honesty and emotions in this video. Can I just point out that what John and Carah do isn't "anti-mormon?" It's honesty. It's not "anti" anything. I wish you all the best in your seeking of honesty.
Eve is voicing the questions I’ve wanted to ask when listening to these podcasts
I’m about 25 minutes in and I commend Eve so much. I have never been someone of faith so I can only imagine what would happen if all of a sudden I had this complete shift and asked questions. I just wish more people could be as gentle and kind as everyone here. Understanding and assuming people are coming from a good place can only help our society
Meh, you can’t really judge a group of people surrounded by like minded people. Nazis don’t seam so bad in a room full of nazis.
This would be so hard to do while being recorded! I commend her too!
Not to mention when they didn’t answer her question about how they know he married so many! Need to pull up the diagram from CES letter that shows their names and color codes them by whether they were already married, where they were related to each other, etc.
It was painful to see Eve's eyes as she was finding out more and more about the church. I wish her the best on her journey!
"Money. Sex. Power: How to get them. How to keep them." - by Joseph Smith
AKA "The Book of Mormon"
So much respect for Eve for fully participating, asking fantastic questions that show how much she wants to understand and to follow the sources. I hope her journey leads to contentment, whatever that looks like for her.
Wow this was very.. emotional, I'm a lifelong atheist, I make jokes about god dummies, but this young lady is no dummy she is a victim, and as brave a human as is possible.
Beautifully said
Isn’t it odd? Their all victims but the church has created such an aura of perfection that they almost appear just as normal in the day to day
I’m not Mormon but I’m an ex Christian and when she said “I just want to know what’s real” I could hear my self.
@@kdmill7563 i feel for you. I find it hard to wrap my head around believing this kind of magical stuff. . People clearly do, and I should be more patient. It's just so harmful and dangerous...
@@larryscarr3897 I’m guessing you weren’t born into it, it’s hard when it’s one of the first things you learned. Luckily it’s very flawed so those of us paying attention eventually realize we were misled. One thing that bothered me while I was deconstructing was that many ex Christians seemed very intelligent, and the people telling me not to listen seemed like they were forcing their heads in the sand and sticking their fingers in their ears. I couldn’t willfully shut out questions, I couldn’t stand not knowing the answers.
Eve. I am blown away by your open mind and logical approach. If only every person we open up to about these issues would handle it 1/2 as well as you. Thank you so much for being brave enough to volunteer for this. Thank you.
I grew up very secular so I don't know what it's like to go through this, and it doesn't give me any pleasure to watch someone go through it even from my very distant perspective.
But I really respect people who follow the truth wherever it leads them.
30 years ago, I was a graduate student and my wife was a beginning teacher. We had 1 child. We barely had enough to eat. Although the church had $ 3 billion, we had to pay 10% to remain "worthy". Today, the church has $ 100 billion from those gullible enough to stay "worthy"
Did you want welfare? Tithing doesn't stop because you're poor. Talk about gullible...
@@JohnDLee-im4lo No I didn't want welfare. I just wanted to keep my own money The Mormon church is evil and extorts money from even the poor. Over $ 100 billion in assets, Joe Smith's scheme has made a lot of people poorer and his cult richer.
@@paulbrungardt9823 Thanks for deleting my last post. Weak people unfortunately are born into or join the Mormon church all the time and usually cycle out just as fast. They find out that this religion will actually expect something of them and the deadwood starts looking for the door. They begin to look for reasons to be offended or claim they were "lied to" about the history of the church and being such "principled" people, they wimp out and usually go on to live their lives. However, there are those haters who then come to these sites to bitch and moan about their treatment in the church or doctrine and then they have a "faith crisis" and go on a "spiritual journey" that ends in bitterness and disappointment. That's why I'm happy to see them (and you) go out from among us. It makes us stronger when this sort are gone. I wish them well on their continuing quest for the soft landing...not to be found in the Mormon church. BTW...it's more like 700 billion.
The Bible doesn't say you're unworthy if you don't tithe 10%, so no need to worry.
@@f.miller9522 A partial truth is the same as a lie (except in Mormonism)--Smith & subsequent "prophets" said minimum of 10% to be worthy. If you are not giving that much--the Mormon Temple will find you unworthy.
Two years ago I had barely even heard the term “Mormon”. I didn’t know anything at all about the church, and then I moved to Salt Lake City for college without even having visited Utah. I’ve been on a journey learning about not just the LDS church, but about lots of religions. It scares me to know that I know a lot more than some people who have devoted their lives and money to any church. Nearly all of my college friends are ex-Mormon, and to see the pain they’ve been put through as children and young adults is so eye-opening, I wish people would take it upon themselves to truly research history for not just both sides of the argument, but for genuine, credible sources. I’m sad for all those who do nothing but exist in their own tiny bubble. I applaud all those who are here questioning, because even if you end up still in the church and believing, you did your due diligence. However, history is grim, and I don’t imagine it would strengthen your relationship to the church. Amazing video!
Thanks for your open mind. Ex-Mormons likely still carry a feeling of needing to believe as the church teaches you from the day you’re able to understand words, that you have to do exactly as the church says or you’ll be separated from your family for eternity after death. It’s an extremely toxic experience to be raised in and has has a huge ripple effect on the behavior of the people in this beautiful city
I’ve been a member of the church nearly all my life. I grew up in a predominantly non-LDS area and the church was a really good thing for me. I served a mission, got married In the temple and for years believed 100% of everything that was taught.
Now that I am older, I view the church differently, with a grain of salt, but also with appreciation. There’s a tremendous amount of good teachings and good people within the church. There are problems that exist within the history, doctrine, leaders and members as well, but that also has to be measured against the good.
Bottom line is I find myself saddened that it’s not as true as it purports, but also grateful that I learned so many good things there.
@@bmo5082 I’m only 20 and all my friends are recently returned missionaries (one gets back 3 days from now from Guatemala.) I’m terrified for them because I have older cousins who’s lives are still so focused on the church, and it’s like I watched the passion, joy, and creativity they naturally received from life be whittled away to from this “perfect” being, so they can’t form their own opinions so their extremely agreeable to the popular opinion. In my mind, mob mentality is one of the most dangerous social phenomenons, and Mormons are EXPERTS at getting the mob to follow a certain agenda. It makes a lot of sense, as from the day you can comprehend speech, the church teaches you that you MUST do what they say down to a T as closely as you can, or the eternity you’ve been promised will be spent away from the people who love you. I just wish it were more obvious to members that the church uses your fear against you while convincing you it’s the only thing able to make you feel comforted or safe. It’s manipulation 101, offer a problem, sell a solution
One of my favorite videos ever. I love your and John's different styles together. I haven't thought about the faith crisis experience for a long time (I've been an ex-mo for so long now) but when Eve started to cry when she thought the church might not be true, it brought it back. That's good, though, because sometimes I forget how heartbreaking it is. We are taught to say ,"I know the church is true," when we're little kiddos. Suddenly being unable to think that's true anymore is devastating. Now that I've been out so long I definitely think the church was overcompensating by making everyone say it's true all the time. If it was true, why would we all have to go around convincing each other it is?
Eve, I have an ocean of respect for you to allow yourself to put yourself in this position. As a person of faith myself, I know how easy it is to reject criticism of something you love so much.
Eve is an amazing, courageous person. I am moved by her strength in facing something that is clearly so difficult.
Carah please start your own exmo podcast! Mormon stories is a little slow and clean for me, but I would love something like that with your energy 💙
I love her here every once in a while!
I love you here too. Why not make this an ongoing feature with John. Why not make an Empire rather like Mormon Discussions has. It’s obviously sustainable for its participants.
This is an excellent idea. Things that youtube would demonetize or ban someone for, like cussing or sensitive topics, are par for the course in podcasts. They just get that E rating so parents or others can filter out “explicit” content. Podcasts are great for people who aren’t comfortable on camera but have valuable experiences to share. They’re also a lot of work.
Yes Carah! Get that podcast going!!!!
Nuancehoe
I’m so glad I found this channel. I’m not Mormon, but have many, many neighbors who are. Their children and grandkids need support♥️.
You can read about the first time Mormonism was tried or at least part of it in Genesis 3: 1-5. The serpent told Eve you can become as gods. So you see this lie has been used almost from the beginning.
when she says with true worry "am I going to get excommunicated?!" - oh my heart. Hugs to Eve.
John Dehlin was excommunicated for his podcast after all. It is not about what you believe, but whether you go public about it.
When she talked about her brain telling her to question if yall are just hating the church or lying that really hit me. The number of years I subconsciously thought that all the time and it kinda shows how hard it really is to talk to LDS people (not all) because even if they don't want to it's reinforced to think that their entire lives... loved this podcast!
I am just seeing this now and as I listened, I felt a connection to Eve. I was not introduced into the church until 8 y/o. Long story short, I always had questions but had no resources or support network to help me challenge anything. Met a girl at a church owned school who convinced me to live more by faith, and I did. She then convinced me to go on a mission, which I did. I was assigned to Ventura CA. At the MTC,, and after being through the temple a few times, my eyes were opened. I challenged teachers, fellow companions etc., and it made me question myself. I ended up in CA and lasted three months, talked to my companion (also DL), mission president. I poured out my soul that I was in the wrong place for the wrong reasons and did not believe the gospel. I demanded to be released. MP refused to do that. Gave me the tough love kind of treatment. I responded that I would not stay if he refused to release me. Why was I not excomm. I will never know. I closed my bank account, packed my stuff and literally walked away, got on a bus and went home. I walked away from CA, the church, and did what was best for me. I don't regret it, never have. I have mad respect for Eve to open her mind. Eve, don't apologize for anything you believe and/or discover.
Sorry I know this wasn't a short story.... 😊
Did you end up walking away from Jesus as well as the LDS Church?
I'm always amazed that the Mormons would send such a weak vessel into the mission field to represent them. We're always glad to see the weak dross and offal leave the church. It makes us stronger and really seems to make the posers happy.
Amazing show! Eve you were so brave, trusting and yet also tough! Great job to all!
❤❤❤ thank you 😢
"There were hand maids in the Bible". There were sexual slaves in the Bible.
Exactly. It I'd trash
Eve asked such great questions. When she started learning new facts her follow-ups were excellent.
Best one was "how does he have time to do this.." that is the most logically question. He can't possibly having sex with 30 women when he's the President/Prophet of the Church. He has too much stuff to do for him to have that many wife's.