S&W M&P12: Move Over KSG
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Review and thoughts on the impressive S&W M&P12. More combat shotgun content as requested by TNPrs!
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Crappy thumbnail on this one thought this was an old video till I saw upload time.
The short Genesis magazine fed, semi auto 12 ga. would be me 1st choice for a 12.
Ive noticed about 3 or 4 dubious "homages" to keltec guns by S&W. It was a meme but I dont thjnk anyone talked about it in detail, such as this video.
Will it accept mini-shells? Cool looking shotgun…thanks for the review…
Next years shot show booth review will be at the ruger booth amd their new twin tube shotgun!😂
Mine's been very solid as well
If anyone is truly free market, they would thank Smith and Wesson for going after Kel-Tec. This is a major improvement over the KSG
Its like liberating the 5.7, lets get ALL THE FLAVORS
Imagine being such a cuck for a company with the most over priced overrated and worst QC in the industry that you have their logo as you profile picture 🤣
I just wish Kel-Tec would offer a “premium” line where they could charge more but have the quality upgraded and very thorough QC. Some of their designs are absolutely genius but the manufacturing and quality control is absurdly bad. Imagine all the cool designs they put out but with the quality of one of the big manufacturers. They come out with at least 2-3 firearms a year that I’d buy in a second if I could trust their quality. Add 30%, call it their “performance line” of whatever marketing spin they want to use and get rid of the screws and trash QC. I guarantee they’d make a killing. I don’t get why they haven’t even attempted this strategy.
@@Romanus- Fantastic Idea...but George Kelgren does not like growth through financing. That would be needed to up their production capability and quality. He finds the most cost effective way to make as reliable as he can. I don't personally agree with that, as he could be serving millions more if he just "bit the bullet"
A bullpup that doesn't assault your arm during operation and works better. A win
Killin it Nutn. Be safe brother and keep the great content coming.
Nutnfancy, just wanted to thank you for all the knife and gun videos/reviews over the years. Your videos helped me pull the trigger on several purchases. Nutnfancy is one of the best, thanks again.
I still see a lot of people buying the KS7/KSG at my LGS cause its still the cheaper and first picture that comes to mind in terms of bullpup shotgun at my LGS in CA. I think S&W should try a slimmer, slightly cheaper model that can corner in on the KS7 market though it'd probably have to be no more than $700 to justify the better furniture over the KS7.
The M&P 12 is definitely a good gun, but I will still take a ksg over it. The ksg was the very first gun I've ever owned and it's still running strong with no issues.
If it aint broke don't fix it. I like both, the m&p 12 and ksg, but my mossberg 590 has done all i've ever asked of it so I don't want to sell it or get another shotgun just cuz. I may just be a fudd or old fashioned.. all 12 gauge shotguns that work are cool in my book
It’s a really cool shotgun! I bought the Tavor TS12 last year and its awesome.
Yes,so did I. It’s a big heavy brute, but the dual loading ports on either side resolves the underneath loading issues of the M&P 12 or KSG. The mag tube rotation takes A LOT of practice.
Sick shotgun! Smart of S&W to include the VG and the choke options. What a no brainer for Smith to get a leg up on Kel-Tec. Fun fact about Hitachi excavators: Up until recently Hitachi and John Deere excavators were basically the same thing. Hitachi manufactured them for Deere.
Since the UTS-15 (garbage) and KSG (mine is great) came out, this one tube non-lethal and one tube lethal keeps getting some play out in the community. This is one of the 10 dumbest things I have ever heard relating to philosophy of use, which I am also BIG on. It is too easy during the stress of a home invasion scenario to make the mistake of loading non-lethal and OOOPPPPSSSS lethal 9 pellet combat buck is in the tube, insert civil and possibly criminal penalties here. This would be very true for LEO's. Also, if we are in a WROL/societal breakdown/civil war situation why are you loading non-lethal in your shotgun? The M&P 12 looks well made with quality components and is only a few hundred dollars more than the KSG which is more than acceptable for a weapon which I may end up staking my life on. Great guns are not cheap and cheap guns are not great, or even good.
Curious how gunk around the trigger guard would affect the cycling of that extractor/shell lifter system that moves up and down in front of the trigger. Will you please test that to make sure it can clear itself of debris?
S&W should just buy Keltec since they are ripping off all their designs and Keltech can never meet demand and has poor QC. would be a win win as long as S&W does not drug test the keltec design team when they are bought out.
I noticed that was a single pin pistol grip on the keltec and that seemed to be a problem. I’ve got the 2 pin Magpul VFG on mine and it’s solid🫡
I am a free market capitalist, always have been always will be. I am not new to aviation and neither is Nutn. Glenn Curtiss was awarded the very FIRST contract to produce engines and aircraft for the DOD, largely because in 1907 he went a record 136.36 MPH on his hand built 4 cylinder motorcycle on Ormond Beach, FL.
His Curtiss Jenny aircraft are still used today in training for general aviation.
Many other much larger companies improved on basic designs and concepts of aircraft Curtiss produced for the Department of the US NAVY.
Free market competition and a rising tide lifts ALL BOATS, and improves human endeavors, whatever they might be.
Still waiting for the semi auto version of the dual tube feed SG. Anybody listening?
I definitely like this one. If I had the budget to justify something, I’d pick it up as a full load and expend type defensive weapon, not the primary option but something for close to home work
I've been watching your videos since you reviewed the Fenix TK10 (bought one, ran over it with my M1A1), and you never disappoint. Love your content, sir.
Great Information and videos as always.
Well regulated actually means well equipped, trained & up to date in Ol English' not Gov over reach‼️💯📜 rate of fire isn't the test!
M&P 12 or IWI TS12?
Would love a single tube version to compete with the KS7
Frankly I don't think it would sell. A semi auto version might
Thank God you didn't pull the trigger when that vertical grip snapped off. You would've blown off your hand!
I think we deserve a semi-autoloader 7+7+1. The pumping action seems a bit wonky at times, and under stress, it's probably prone to short strokes, I would imagine.
A semi would be a beast. Thanks for the in-depth review!
They are working on a UTS15A for the last 6 years. They are still making sure there are no bad kinks like the uts15 gen 1 had at launch and killed sales but they had demo models back in 2019. Just talking forever to release
Semi auto
Touting the ksg 12 jamomatic lol…the gun that will get you killed with a catastrophic malfunction…nobody would use either of these range toys in any serious situation…
Totally agree, I can't believe Nuttn would even....🙈🤣
@@davidgolden1726 he seems to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with his last few reviews Since he’s fallen from fame it seems…
I highly recommend the Gen12 shotgun…best one ever made!
Thanks for hard work and great content! The issue you reported on hard spring pressure on loading - the manual says to utilize those mag release levers on the side to make loading easier. Yeah that will work, but you also slip up and shoot back out all the shells. I just power through and push the shells in w/o using the levers as it’ll be hard to control the lever, push the shell in and ….. (where’s my 3rd hand?). That’s why S&W says to place the muzzle down on a table since BOTH of your hands will be manipulating the loading.
Smith & wesson is amazing 🇺🇸👍👍
Glad to see an improvement on the Keltec. Still hoping to see a see you review the Gen3 Sub 2000.
I have fun at the range with my Gen 1 sub 2K. For your own sanity, don't detail strip it.
It looks like a Nerf gun in there.
If you slightly overtighten the frame screws, you induce trigger reset issues.
The bolt tube can be deformed with your bare hand.
Don't get me started on the sights.
It's still a lot of fun but I wouldn't buy a Gen 3 unless somebody let me take one apart first
@sociopathmercenary I had 2 Gen2's the first in 40 that I sold once I got one in 9mm. I regret letting it go. I did all of the MCARBO upgrades on the 9mm. It was fantastic. Unfortunately I traded it to Buffalo Outdoors for a MechTech Glock 17 Carbine Conversion Unit. Don't get me wrong it was a fair swap. I just miss the Sub. The only downside was the mounting an optic issue and being able to fold it. They have fixed that on Gen3.
One word IWI. And just a little more $$$.
Oh yeah! I'm a fan of this one!
This pistol grip can be removed and replaced with your favorite AR-15 grip.
Nutn, a way to know when the mag tube on the KSG or M&P 12 is almost empty would be to put a tracer or dragon's breath round as the last or second to last round in the tube. When you see the flash you'll know it's ready to switch tubes. Unfortunately, there are no Tracer Buckshot rounds that I could find available. And dragon's breath does have six pellets of buckshot but the downside is you might light something on fire that you don't want to. Just a thought...
AEMS is great! I would never load one tube with less than lethal and expect to get it right under duress. I see a use for the M&P 12 but for my needs will stick with my conventional pump gun.
Wasn't too happy with the quality of S&W revolvers at IWA2024. Kinda suspicious of S&W products since then.
I'd trust a Hi-Point before I'd trust a KelTec.
Back in the late 1990s when Hi-Point carbine came out. Me and my friend did some hard torture testing. The Hi-Point feed all kinds of brass 9mm and steel ammo. Never clean it and fire very hot to touch. The carbine ran like a tank. I hear years ago that Hi-Point made a police model that used Glock magazine.
Sorry Nuttn but this is hands down one of the most GARBAGE firearms I've ever had the awful experience to shoot (just ran 200+ shells through one last weekend). They may have made a decent budget AR and a good AR10 for a time but M&P pistols are absolute trash and this shotgun is absolute GARBAGE. Pull your head out. THey (S&W) also have the WORST CS I;ve ever dealt with trying to get a resolution on TWO M7P trash pistols that wouldn't run a full mag.
GEN-12 PDS x HUXWRX has entered the chat
I would agree that this would be an improvement Now they just need to improve the price.How come it seems like Every new gun that comes out is a $1000 or more. I think the average person will soon be priced out of Owning guns Because they will be too expensive.
I need to know where the slide release is at. Its it not in your armpit like the KSG and UTS15? That alone would sell me if it's reachable without taking your hands off the controls
I do NOT like the forend on the KSG. Go back and watch your precious fingers while shooting. S&W did a much better job on the design.
A google search will bring up more than one guy who has removed his hand with the keltec from breaking a front grip while racking the action/firing fast, a big HELL NO for me haha
Thanks for all the hard work throughout the years bro!! Love you GRVs and KRVs. This one wad cool man!!!
I already had my KS7 when I learned of the M&P12. Would you comment on any information on how either of these handle the shorty shot shells?
Stoking the algorithm here by commenting. But on a more serious note- Why would anyone want a shotgun for any serious role? High recoil, low rate of fire, and long reload.
Great review as always, even though i cant afford it. Id like to see this with a rifled barrel and suppressor in flat desert earth ceracoat, shooting sabot slugs!
A firearm is ALWAYS lethal force.
I think in court with a jury of your peers that don't know firearms, your absolutely 1000%
the thing I’ve never been able to get past with the KSG is that is just feels like suuuch a cheap POS. Not gonna buy a bullpup shotgun anyway but if I was, I’d be way into this
I’m sorry but dinging the KSG for an aftermarket pistol grip failure is a bit too far. I use a Magpul and anyone can put any number of choices of vertical grips available. I see that as a plus.
I am thinking you can put different grips where the other one comes out via M.Lock due to the logo being there
No. The vertical foregrip is not good for a shotgun. Not if you are going to be carrying it for any long duration in time. Try it for yourself.
Wonder if we'll be able to get them in Canada (Trudeauvian Republic of).
to many bad things can happen with them guns would love to see a youtuber make a little c4 shot gun shell to see what it would do
At 18:23 getting Mr Wilson, Home Improvement vibes. 😂
KSG is perfectly fine you just have to be a man and rack that shit with conviction
Looks like a great gov drone getter
Yeah but John Wick used the KSG, so it wins just on second cool. 😂
Great review, keep up with the gun reviews...
Are you sure you don't want a Liebherr 776 Litronic?
What? - No Weight Rant?
That's what I was waiting for, which one weighs more Nutn???
🎉
I would get a mag fed Genisys before anything.
The only guntuber more annoying is the yankee marshall.
S&W likes to copy other companies homework. 😂
KSG just feels better in hand, and under recoil.
Absolutely a solid review, and a very nice shotgun. Thee only thing S&W of recent that I haven’t liked is their take on a folding PCC. All the rest at S&W are awesome.
I enjoy my FPC. Probably the only reason I bought an m&p
I'm glad they make both + the shields, so the company can stay alive and also keep making awesome revolvers 😂🇺🇸👍
Any thoughts on comparison with these high capacity type shotguns vs traditional pump such as a 870 590/500?
More shots.
Heavy
Slightly more complicated, very front heavy but lots of firepower.
These are not easy to load on the move and remembering how to take these down and reassembly can be tricky. They are very good in close quarters and the weight is closer to your body vs 870/500. The pistol grips also make it easier to bring up faster and swing left to right faster. Being shorter they are also easier to store/hide. They shoot a pattern just like an 18” 870/500. Great home defense gun but going out for a critter I’d take the 870 with longer barrel and a full choke. If you shoulder one of each in the gun shop you’ll notice right away how much faster it is to aim these.
Don't waste ur money on these pigs of a shotgun 😂🙌🏻
When’s the double barrel coming out
I can't stand the front vertical grip.
Welp, there goes my tax return....
Been watching your content for 10 plus years, your patches on my hat permanently and will never come off Love the reviews Love the content keep it up
I always wanted a KSG........ I bought a TAVOR TS12.(Blew my wad!!) I love it. I might have to check out this bad boy!!
KSG has choke adapters and the magpul RVG vpg is $20, and the tube selector extender is also cheap and effective. KSG was under $700 new at my local dealer 4/2024. Imo the greatest advantage the mp12 has is the AR safety selector and the S&W track record. So it's about a $400 difference for equally performing guns
Where did my guy go? Who the heck is this?
No Strongsuit Second Skin link?
S & W eating Kel Tecs lunch again.
That baby will hold 23 short shells
Cost 2x a ksg but worth it, ksg sux.
Keltec copied the neostead 2000 before it. Manufactures stand on shoulders of giants, and iterate and try to make changes and improvements especially post patent time, like PSA did with dagger. Innovation thru iteration
I love S&W but it's so fugly
I'm hoping S&W will make their own version of the KS7, I'd be more likely to buy that, slimmer and lighter.
Man, watching the ksg footage was puckering. Their fingers kept slipping more and more forward with every shot till sometimes it was in front of the muzzle.
Thank you! I originally was struggling with picking out a shotgun until I saw your ksg review years ago. Outstanding work! Please keep it up for us common folk.
Looks like it would make an excellent compact bear defense gun for Alaska, or Wyoming, or Montana, or wherever else they reintroduce grizzly bears unto public recreation areas.
This is probably a dividing thought, but the more I looked at this, the more I couldn't help but think how good a non-bullpup version of this would be.
I’ll be buying one when the next gen comes out. I don’t want it for a go to battle situation, because let’s be real, if things get bad, I’ll be offed pretty quickly. I have the KSG, and I just think the mechanics of these are interesting.
Higher quality manufacturing, better ergos on tube selector. Comes standard with VG. M&p 12 is another win from s&w / m&p series 👍👍🇺🇸
I like my mossberg 500.
Thanks for the review. I have held off real consideration due to the challenges of the mag tubes... I really hope the G2 improves on that and the sling points you mention on the stocks back...those two upgrades/changes, I'll have to reconsider for sure.
First video back after a years long break from RUclips. Glad to see the project is still cranking along. And that I remember the acronyms 😂
I own a ks7 and have been happy with it after adding some after market accessories. Now the question is should i go with a m&p12 or a Beretta a300 ultima patrol ?
A review of the ESSTAC style Velcro shotgun cards would be cool!
Esstac and their cheaper cousins from amazon!
Don’t be afraid to sprinkle in other reviews like outdoor gear, clothing, etc. I hope and think that your audience will appreciate it.
Thank you baby Jesus for primary arms prisms.
I took my old astigmatism filled eyes to my local gun store a couple weeks ago to try out all the red dots and see if I can be one of the cool kids. Nope. Just a bunch of smeary red and green color splashes. 😮😮
Nutn.. You should take a needle and thread and sew up your busted thumb on that glove.. It's good practice and I think it will be very useful in the future.. Plus it would make for a quick video. Same thing with repairing the soles on an old pair of boots. This kind of thing will be super critical after the collapse. We have to learn to repair our gear, just the same as we have to learn to repair our own rifles.
I think the design could be less bulky but overall i love it, it seems more reliable than the ksg and maybe more accurate? Interesting choice for sure
The tube selector and choke are massive improvements but they missed a huge opportunity to alter how it’s loaded altogether. Maybe it isn’t mechanically possible but I think a much better design would be utilizing a side gate like old school repeaters but with one on each side. They’d have to do something to eject the shells elsewhere but a side gate would be much easier to load and you could still flip it vertical to load the other side without needing to switch hands or maneuver your hand in some weird way.
Will it cycle mini-shells?
TNP going strong. Love to review. I’ll pass on the S&W12 because money is better spent elsewhere but I love that it exists.