This just in :- the Mix Police have issued a warrant for the arrest of a Matthew Weiss. Mr Weiss produces videos about music production and concepts pertaining there to. Reports indicate that he has contravened received wisdom by talking sense and debunking oft repeated nonsense in a bid to actually help people make better mix decisions! Another great philosophy Friday. Thank you.
VERY well said & explained - personally, in my opinion & experience, I couldn't agree more! 👍👍 Never or extremely rarely kinda-sorta-hand-level-matched in the analog world, in the old days. Comparing plugin subtleties for fun or science is one thing, but e.g. eq level matching is virtually unusable or at the very least totally impractical, by the very nature of what eq-ing is and why it is being done. As for attempting to to compare mixes to level matched (how?? RMS? peak? LUFS? vocal level? subjective impact or feel?) masters, I usually explain the points you correctly made with an example: it's like having two identical twin brothers all geared up to run a marathon in front of a mirror, then sending only one of them to actually run the whole 40km thing, and when he comes back perhaps muddy or dusty or sweaty or scratched posing them both again in front of the mirror and saying "Oh... one looks cleaner/less tired" - well... maybe, but one actually RAN the marathon and got to the goals & places the other was only geared up for, so... 🤷♂
So good, thanks! I see it exactly like that. I literally get tons of comments under EVERY video where there's a single instance of not level matching (whatever level they mean) to the .1 decibel. It's like an unhealthy obsession that puts the focus away from things that are much more important for the resulting mix. Another example of such a weird obsession is the "never use highpass filters because it messes with the phase" type of comment. Well, there's a reason that tool exists and in 99% of cases the resulting phase shift is absolutely not problematic.
I use LUFS as standard while level matching. I found tone changing after compressing or saturation, so I'll level down or up a little bit after that so that this track fits more in the whole mix. But I really level match every time to see if I did better in this step.
This whole video doesn’t help anyone. I’m actually surprised it’s put forward. What’s the goal? People shouldn’t use meters only their ears or vice versa? You mentioned Fletcher Munson, do you know the experiment Flatcher and Munson did is testimonial and not scientific, now it’s measured as phon but really who cares, we have the idea and that’s it. The idea is to gain stage for optimal performance with in the bits, and be precise with your decision. Example, you want to boost eq like you say hi shelf maybe, and if turned down for matching it could sound thin right, Or it could mean eq is not the answer but let’s add some harmonics if your not afraid of Nyquist up there and get some perceived highs, so then when in the good habits of gain staging you noticed more energy with out measuring more energy and that a win right…or no? So to be clear your video is about people gain staging loudness and perceived loudness as one…or am I confused by your video or my ignorance? Please put me in check!
I think you're confused. This video has nothing to do with gain staging. But I think the fundamental issue is this right here "The idea is to gain stage for optimal performance with in the bits, and be precise with your decision." - No, it's not. The idea is to make a great feeling musical recording that delivers the intention of the song, and level matching is generally a distraction from that goal.
@@WeissAdvice maybe you’re right, this whole time I thought gain staging was alpha and omega, can’t escape it. Even he who pushes faders, turns inputs and out puts, auto gain, limiters, turned up n down through out the listener in the control room…you’re right I’m confused and you’re teaching and leading them right to not be so concerned with gain staging. lol reminds me of Jordan Peterson saying to an atheist, you act if God exist. Ignorance is bliss or you’re burdened with knowledge.
My guy, I used to mix so fast, and free, then someone put in my head I had to continually level match, and I have struggled hard since. Never being able to finish a damn thing. Thank you for this video man.
Matthew Weiss and Marc Daniel Nelson are the only 2 RUclipsrs you should take advice from. All the rest regurgitate the same disinformation in a social media circle jerk. Especially beat makers, never listen to beat makers.
I also find that level-matching (by ear) is kind of a contradictory practice to begin with. Because what plugin are you even using it for? - If you're using saturation, it's gonna sound louder because you're flattening the wave. Your peaks are gonna be more level with the rest of the sound. Of course, you might want them specifically to then reduce the total energy being used (making something more audible at a lower volume), but that's not a case of level matching, cause you'd find a sweetspot where you can still hear the thing while getting back all that headroom. - With clipping drums, the entire point might be to remove 6-10db transient spikes that once removed allow you to increase the long-term level by several dB while hitting your master limiter just as hard. Why would you level-match this at all, given your intent? - If you're using reverb as an insert and you're level-matching, you're going to only be listening to the lead itself (which is usually still louder than the reverb), and the total signal will exceed the level it had before once it sounds 'as loud.' Not ideal. - If you're using a compressor for loudness specifically, then the entire point is to have a louder sounding thing at the same read-out level. Trying to level-match that by ear is again contrary to what you'd use it for. And then, if we get to whichever type of level people are referencing when they say it (peak, over-time, perceived loudness), all of them have their own counterpoints. E.g., a level through-out but longer sound (say, a sustained note instead of a tapped one on your piano or in your synthesizer) is gonna sound louder in the context of your mix despite being the same peak. A distorted sound is perceived louder at the same level than an undistorted one. And a peak-loud sound is just not gonna be audible in a mix if you have some squashed but levelled out sound with lesser peak loudness next to it. So none of those really work as measurements.
I definitely never understood level-matching when applied to EQs as the whole point of using one is either to either boost or cut a particular frequency or even set of frequencies.
I've learned that processing changes context. The processing you apply to a given sound re-contextualises it in the mix. A sound might need to be louder once saturated as it feels right to be louder with the saturation applied. Same goes for adding reverb, you're changing the balance of dry and wet sound, and that re-contextualises that sound, meaning it might sound better quieter.
The only sort of level matching I do is to make sure I haven't pushed the mix a lot harder into my master processing after the static mix has been done and the compression settings have been made. But maybe that's what feels good so it doesn't matter. But it's the only thing I sometimes check. When ever I see people in the comments screaming it wasn't level matched you just know they aren't a professional 😂
It can hinder your perception you’re 100% right. I think gain staging gradually so your levels don’t get out of control is a good thing too though. Especially since most plugins have a sweet spot.
I guess a relevant use of level-matching is when evaluating plug-ins in order to understand what additional processing is occurring besides just a gain boost, which will trip the loudness bias. Maybe also when you are comparing your own masters and maybe when comparing it with a reference mix. But all in all, yeah it's not as useful as one may think.
Thank for the video but haven’t I have seen numerous videos of yours where you have level match plug-in outputs after processing. So I’m a little confused.
That is in a tutorial where he is showing the differences between before and after as a teaching tool. That's completely different to the flow of a mixing session.
Two reasons for this: 1, as an educational tool, 2, something i did was previously at the loudness i wanted and the processing changed that - so it’s restorative
Hi Matt, thanks for the video mate. May i ask, do you as a process re-adjust the fader of a track once you have applied an EQ or comp etc to it? You're covering important fundamentals here and i appreciate it, thanks. Would love to add an answer to the above question into my memory banks, cheers
Thank for the video, I’m a little confused maybe we are not talking about the same thing. When I`m working on a track/plugins expecialy Dynamic I like to flip it on and off to help me ear the differience and make sure that I`m not fooled by the volume difference.
Is this a reupload? I'm pretty sure you've talked about this before, and you basically concluded "If it sounds better because the gain has increased, what does it matter, it sounds better."
Boom. I totally get this from the perspective of an experienced mixer. However, I do wonder if beginners would be well advised to take time to understand the subtleties of all the things in your comments, in order that they too can hear things more clearly and be able to confidently move past this same stuff?
This just in :- the Mix Police have issued a warrant for the arrest of a Matthew Weiss. Mr Weiss produces videos about music production and concepts pertaining there to. Reports indicate that he has contravened received wisdom by talking sense and debunking oft repeated nonsense in a bid to actually help people make better mix decisions!
Another great philosophy Friday. Thank you.
Fletcher-Munson would be a great movie if they could get Chevy Chase and Woody Harelson on board.
I can't mix using EQ's with autogain. When I make a cut it turns the signal up so loud it just smothers everything else lol.
Totally agree with you. Its all about the sound, if it sounds good it is good. To hell with level matching 😂
I only level match if I need more head room other than that I use my ears..
Disagreed at the beginning
Agreed at the end. Nice
VERY well said & explained - personally, in my opinion & experience, I couldn't agree more!
👍👍
Never or extremely rarely kinda-sorta-hand-level-matched in the analog world, in the old days. Comparing plugin subtleties for fun or science is one thing, but e.g. eq level matching is virtually unusable or at the very least totally impractical, by the very nature of what eq-ing is and why it is being done.
As for attempting to to compare mixes to level matched (how?? RMS? peak? LUFS? vocal level? subjective impact or feel?) masters, I usually explain the points you correctly made with an example:
it's like having two identical twin brothers all geared up to run a marathon in front of a mirror, then sending only one of them to actually run the whole 40km thing, and when he comes back perhaps muddy or dusty or sweaty or scratched posing them both again in front of the mirror and saying "Oh... one looks cleaner/less tired" - well... maybe, but one actually RAN the marathon and got to the goals & places the other was only geared up for, so...
🤷♂
Didn’t shave, sweats on, let’s go 😅
I only care to shave my fivehead 😂 and after that, sweat is definitely on 😂
Oh how I missed Philosophy Phridays!
So good, thanks! I see it exactly like that. I literally get tons of comments under EVERY video where there's a single instance of not level matching (whatever level they mean) to the .1 decibel. It's like an unhealthy obsession that puts the focus away from things that are much more important for the resulting mix. Another example of such a weird obsession is the "never use highpass filters because it messes with the phase" type of comment. Well, there's a reason that tool exists and in 99% of cases the resulting phase shift is absolutely not problematic.
Very exactly so - well said! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I use LUFS as standard while level matching.
I found tone changing after compressing or saturation, so I'll level down or up a little bit after that so that this track fits more in the whole mix.
But I really level match every time to see if I did better in this step.
The Weiss man has spoken, (Pun intended) lol 😉
I've been going back to listening to 80's and 90's music. If it's too quiet I just turn it up and it sounds great still. Thanks for this, Matt!
This whole video doesn’t help anyone. I’m actually surprised it’s put forward.
What’s the goal? People shouldn’t use meters only their ears or vice versa? You mentioned Fletcher Munson, do you know the experiment Flatcher and Munson did is testimonial and not scientific, now it’s measured as phon but really who cares, we have the idea and that’s it.
The idea is to gain stage for optimal performance with in the bits, and be precise with your decision. Example, you want to boost eq like you say hi shelf maybe, and if turned down for matching it could sound thin right, Or it could mean eq is not the answer but let’s add some harmonics if your not afraid of Nyquist up there and get some perceived highs, so then when in the good habits of gain staging you noticed more energy with out measuring more energy and that a win right…or no?
So to be clear your video is about people gain staging loudness and perceived loudness as one…or am I confused by your video or my ignorance? Please put me in check!
I think you're confused. This video has nothing to do with gain staging. But I think the fundamental issue is this right here "The idea is to gain stage for optimal performance with in the bits, and be precise with your decision." - No, it's not. The idea is to make a great feeling musical recording that delivers the intention of the song, and level matching is generally a distraction from that goal.
@@WeissAdvice maybe you’re right, this whole time I thought gain staging was alpha and omega, can’t escape it.
Even he who pushes faders, turns inputs and out puts, auto gain, limiters, turned up n down through out the listener in the control room…you’re right I’m confused and you’re teaching and leading them right to not be so concerned with gain staging.
lol reminds me of Jordan Peterson saying to an atheist, you act if God exist. Ignorance is bliss or you’re burdened with knowledge.
My guy, I used to mix so fast, and free, then someone put in my head I had to continually level match, and I have struggled hard since. Never being able to finish a damn thing. Thank you for this video man.
Matthew Weiss and Marc Daniel Nelson are the only 2 RUclipsrs you should take advice from. All the rest regurgitate the same disinformation in a social media circle jerk. Especially beat makers, never listen to beat makers.
Another really useful and insightful tip I'm going to put into practice! Thanks Matt!
Thank you bro🙏🏼 people obsess over levels and forget that how it feels and sounds is all that matters at the end of the day
I said "yes!!" out loud after every point you made haha
Not mad at it at all ✊
I always enjoys these, Thanks Matthew! ✌😎 - Cole Mize
I also find that level-matching (by ear) is kind of a contradictory practice to begin with. Because what plugin are you even using it for?
- If you're using saturation, it's gonna sound louder because you're flattening the wave. Your peaks are gonna be more level with the rest of the sound. Of course, you might want them specifically to then reduce the total energy being used (making something more audible at a lower volume), but that's not a case of level matching, cause you'd find a sweetspot where you can still hear the thing while getting back all that headroom.
- With clipping drums, the entire point might be to remove 6-10db transient spikes that once removed allow you to increase the long-term level by several dB while hitting your master limiter just as hard. Why would you level-match this at all, given your intent?
- If you're using reverb as an insert and you're level-matching, you're going to only be listening to the lead itself (which is usually still louder than the reverb), and the total signal will exceed the level it had before once it sounds 'as loud.' Not ideal.
- If you're using a compressor for loudness specifically, then the entire point is to have a louder sounding thing at the same read-out level. Trying to level-match that by ear is again contrary to what you'd use it for.
And then, if we get to whichever type of level people are referencing when they say it (peak, over-time, perceived loudness), all of them have their own counterpoints. E.g., a level through-out but longer sound (say, a sustained note instead of a tapped one on your piano or in your synthesizer) is gonna sound louder in the context of your mix despite being the same peak. A distorted sound is perceived louder at the same level than an undistorted one. And a peak-loud sound is just not gonna be audible in a mix if you have some squashed but levelled out sound with lesser peak loudness next to it.
So none of those really work as measurements.
I definitely never understood level-matching when applied to EQs as the whole point of using one is either to either boost or cut a particular frequency or even set of frequencies.
@@DerekPower Completely forgot about EQs, but good point.
Exactly
I've learned that processing changes context. The processing you apply to a given sound re-contextualises it in the mix. A sound might need to be louder once saturated as it feels right to be louder with the saturation applied. Same goes for adding reverb, you're changing the balance of dry and wet sound, and that re-contextualises that sound, meaning it might sound better quieter.
Nailed it.
Great advice, thank you
What a relief! I was always worried that I don't level match in my mixes but this video has put me at ease! Thanks Mr Weiss.. Legend!
This is video my life has been waiting for🙏
This idea is highly being recommended by so called youtube mixers. Thanks for sharing your insights.
The only sort of level matching I do is to make sure I haven't pushed the mix a lot harder into my master processing after the static mix has been done and the compression settings have been made. But maybe that's what feels good so it doesn't matter. But it's the only thing I sometimes check. When ever I see people in the comments screaming it wasn't level matched you just know they aren't a professional 😂
I think you have a point. I will give it a try.
It can hinder your perception you’re 100% right. I think gain staging gradually so your levels don’t get out of control is a good thing too though. Especially since most plugins have a sweet spot.
Thank you!!!
Don't do it
Can’t miss any of your videos
I guess a relevant use of level-matching is when evaluating plug-ins in order to understand what additional processing is occurring besides just a gain boost, which will trip the loudness bias. Maybe also when you are comparing your own masters and maybe when comparing it with a reference mix. But all in all, yeah it's not as useful as one may think.
I agree, those are useful cases for level matching.
Great video.
Thank for the video but haven’t I have seen numerous videos of yours where you have level match plug-in outputs after processing. So I’m a little confused.
That is in a tutorial where he is showing the differences between before and after as a teaching tool. That's completely different to the flow of a mixing session.
@@NoQualmsTheArtist I believe I've seen it in mixing videos.
Two reasons for this: 1, as an educational tool, 2, something i did was previously at the loudness i wanted and the processing changed that - so it’s restorative
Hi Matt, thanks for the video mate.
May i ask, do you as a process re-adjust the fader of a track once you have applied an EQ or comp etc to it?
You're covering important fundamentals here and i appreciate it, thanks.
Would love to add an answer to the above question into my memory banks, cheers
sometimes, sometimes not. Depends on whether or not like how loud/quiet the source is.
@@WeissAdvice Thanks Matt, appreciate your reply.
@@WeissAdvice PS - makes perfect sense, what you're saying!
Thank for the video, I’m a little confused maybe we are not talking about the same thing. When I`m working on a track/plugins expecialy Dynamic I like to flip it on and off to help me ear the differience and make sure that I`m not fooled by the volume difference.
Yea, I don't typically do that. If the volume difference "fools" me from time to time, doesn't really matter if I still like the end result better.
Is this a reupload? I'm pretty sure you've talked about this before, and you basically concluded "If it sounds better because the gain has increased, what does it matter, it sounds better."
Not a reupload - but doesn’t mean I didn’t do it before and forgot 😂
@@WeissAdvice Lmao fair enough.
i’m gonna be real this is one of the worst arguments i’ve ever seen
Boom. I totally get this from the perspective of an experienced mixer. However, I do wonder if beginners would be well advised to take time to understand the subtleties of all the things in your comments, in order that they too can hear things more clearly and be able to confidently move past this same stuff?