The Surprise of the City • The City Ep. 1
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2023
- The theme of the city in the Bible is a surprising one. When cities are introduced in the story, they’re depicted as “bad”-a human response to increasing violence and the need for self-protection-and gardens are depicted as humanity’s ideal setting. However, in the book of Revelation, the new creation Jesus brings is a city. What’s going on here? Join Tim and Jon as they start exploring the biblical theme of the city.
Show Music
“Defender (Instrumental)” by TENTS
“Kokon” by Plusma & Guillaume Muschalle
“Long Lost Friend” by Sam Stewart
“Just a Thought” by Tyler Bailey
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@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 I don't believe so. I do believe in baptism but I don't believe you have to in order to be saved. You just have to accept Jesus into your heart and declare that you believe he died on the cross for our sins and repent.
Good point. I give monthly to the Bible Project.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 No. Baptism is simply an outward sign of God's invisible grace (God at work) working in a human. It's a welcome of someone into the church, the body of Christ. But not a get-into-heaven card.
glad you've included this disclaimer as i was beginning to get quite angry listening to this video clip on my so-called 'smart tv'... the youtube ads are beyond out of control, they're downright abusive lately and i'm getting ads approximately every 4.5 minutes which comes out to about 15 commercial breaks during this entire clip... just as i begin to settle into the subject another sudden unwelcome break occurs completely destroying one's concentration and train of thought...when an ad plays during any yt video while i watch on my 8-9 year old smart tv, my tv's ram memory quickly becomes full and the ads soon cause it to buffer and eventually reset and restart youtube which is an extended process...
i finally had it and logged into yt on my laptop to post an angry comment and suggest that you'd implement some type of ad restriction to limit these annoying, irritating commercials to something like 1 ad every 15 minutes or so [i do realize that this evil of ads is now an unfortunate new status quo with youtube but becoming nothing short of abusive as of the past several months and only increasingly so] and then i've read your disclaimer above... i'll try to watch/listen to your clips via the link to your website instead, thank you...
A theme study on the Bride/Bridegroom would be fun too!
Bride in OT: Israel, Bridegroom in OT: Yahweh. Israel commits adultery on Yahweh.
False Bride in OT: Asherah, False Bridegroom in OT: Baal. Baal is the counterfeit Yahweh and the God of the Storm. He is also the son of El. (This counterfeit is also Thor, Jupiter, Zeus, Marduk, and his son is Hercules.
Bride in NT: Spiritual Israel, Bridegroom in NT: Yeshua (Jesus), son of God that is also God in the flesh.
False Bride in NT: Harlot woman (corrupted Israel), Bridegroom in NT: Satan, god of this world since mankind (Adam) followed him
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 No, but baptism is an outward sign of being saved & it is something that God will lead us to do once we are saved.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000no
Nah
@Benjamin Smith don't you know? That you where already baptized in Jesus death?
This is a phenomenal channel with the creators full of skill, and substance. Keep going.
This is a fascinating video. I was completely captivated by it. I love the ideas. The Bible Project as a whole has been so helpful and really delightful. Taught me to look at the Bible as a whole for the first time in my life. Thank you Jon and Tim.
Definitely in my thinkey space when i listen to these two 🤔🙏🥰
I am thoroughly enjoying this series ... I decided to try cross-referencing "city" and "garden" with Chinese ... in Chinese a garden 园 (simplified script) or 園 (traditional script) is an enclosed space. "City" or "town" or "city walls" is 城 and is defined by the fact that it is made of earth or soil ... "nation" or "country" is 国 (simplified script) or 國 (traditional script) and is also enclosed and I am assuming that it carries over from the ancient reality and definition of a city. I want to believe that the rectangle that encloses most of these actually represents a wall. Wrt "garden" specifically, I couldn't help but think of the Song of Songs which describes Solomon's love as "a garden enclosed". And Song of Songs has a great deal of garden imagery that comes off as Edenic. All of these Chinese words could be deconstructed even more to extract more meaning, but I just thought it was really interesting the the rectangle is a common element and which (if my memory serves me correctly) is suggestive of a wall. Btw the simplified script for "country" or "nation" 国 combines 囗 (indicating the enclosure) with 玉 (jade or gem) which looks a lot like 王 (king). We are called to be a holy nation and royal priesthood. That word for "country" or 'nation" seems to echo this. Even though modern China is largely atheist, the script is ancient and dovetails beautifully with biblical Truth.
That is so interesting!! I'm geeking out about this stuff, I've been studying Biblical hebrew, and this is so interesting to me!
The symbol for 10 is literally a cross. Doesn’t get more on your face then that
Sensational as always ❤. Greetings from Nigeria 👋
Thoughts arising:
Assume Eden had walls:😮 the cherubim guarded the way into the garden.
Assume the definition of a city: a defined area administered by the king.
Assume Eden as the area over which God ruled, with mankind commissioned, as his imagers, to extend the borders of that rule into the whole earth.
Is it possible to conclude that 'the city' is mankind's attempt to duplicate 'the garden' but failing?
Just a thought . . .😅
Hmm, what an amazing frame of thoughts 😇
Very much so. As an architect I've thought about this. Just to add, imagine living with God, and expanding his garden/city with him and not without him. How much more beautiful and fascinating will it be!
Ya, the best example of this is probably Solomon building the temple and city. We see all of the garden imagery and Solomon doing things God said kings should not do. It starts out looking like a good things, but we know how all that he gathers and builds himself causes him to turn from his first love.
@@samueljohn1771 Don't know about amazing, but it's comforting to know that if I'm mad, others share the same idiosyncrasies 🙃
@@crimsomwolf Thank you. It's nice to know I'm not the only mad person in the shop 🤔
And your comment is worth a few reads and meditation. Thank you again.
@BibleProject I love your work. I think a natural direction to go with theme studies is the Wilderness. It is also a huge component in prophecy, especially for the Remnant. I have been writing about the 'wilderness' for a couple years (not that you need my help). But I would love BibleProject style illustrations to help bring the wilderness scriptures into a visually immersive teaching tool.
thank You Lord for redeeming our broken and messed up world and even ourselves!
Oh wow! 'Daughters of Jerusalem ' suddenly makes more sense! 💡 interesting connection between city and woman as it's metaphor, too. Especially with Isaiah's birthing references. ( or would it be better called an analogy?)
Hi John and Tim, I really loved this eposide! Blessings from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic!
🙏🙏🇩🇴🇩🇴🇩🇴
Blessings from California, USA
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 Idk if you're looking for an argument or genuinely trying to ask but it's not up to you and I to know who God will choose to redeem. Personally, I've found that exploring the character of God is more productive than asking these questions.
Or maybe you're just trolling.
Sorry to Ana for putting my inserts into your comment but I wanted to address this!
Thank you ❤❤❤️🙏
Since Dr Heiser has passed its good to find a safe space....God bkess you all
Oooh. This is cool. I see where this is going. What an encouraging picture for first thing in the morning.
sure look forward to this study--love your work
Thank you very much!
I'm so excited for this new theme of city 🎉 I've had intense visions about cities (in the present and in the Bible) and can't wait to learn more about cities, it'll help me decode some stuff. Yaaay
Excellent teaching
You guys are doing great
When thinking of walls and things they traditionally represent: protection, which you discuss as something we would think unnecessary in the Kingdom from Heaven, and then divisions... 1 Corinthians 11:19 comes to mind which says, "there must be differences among you to show which of you are approved." This is another good puzzle/surprise you might discuss: divisions, like when God divided up the languages, or in the passage I mentioned, which the Greek word translated divisions in some versions of the Bible is actually the word most closely related to "heresy." Wait, Paul saying we need to have heresies? Whoa. Sounds like a puzzle/surprise worth exploring!
The Chinese translation of 1 Corinthians 11:19 doesn’t say “must” but “inevitably “. I know in English “must” sometimes means “should”, sometimes means “inevitably”.
The reason for an ideal city in the end and not a garden (18:59 )could possibly be because God s great love for human influenced,somehow, the final ideal?
I mean we,humans, created cities,built cities and we re born in cities, which makes of them our natural surrounding.
Thank you, you re doing a great work and you have already a great reward. May your content bring enlightenment over as many people as possible. I love you.
49:43 kinda got my answer 😅
Thank you guys being able to open myself more and share who god is, and the different blockades that prevent me from opening up fully to receiving all he has for us from all.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 knowing Jesus and having him as lord and savior is the only thing your heart needs to be connected to god. Being baptized is shown in many ways as a outward showing of the inner renewing of the Holy Spirit teaching us through Jesus in scripture, and everyone being saved through him. So being baptized is the evidence of this faith. Hope this helps
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 I would say this proves that Peter saved many by leading people into repentance of there disbelief in Jesus. Until you believe in Jesus Chirst as Lord and Savior being baptized is just a bath.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 The remission of sins is the forgiveness of sins. That cannot be done with water, but only by believing in the atoning blood of Jesus on the cross are we made right with god. Which Peter states in Acts 2:36 God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.
@Benjamin Smith I believe there is alot more to water than even I understand. But 1John 5:6-7,8 kind of talk about water and how water , blood and spirit are all in agreement. But jesus came by water and blood so i'd have to grow a bit more on that, to give u a good answer .
@@ripdigits i guess baptism is just an outward sign that you repent from inside we are saved only by Grace
Heaven wears the wall as a crown!
Hey, I'm studying both the Bible and German, the end was such a pleasant suprise
Another compelling theme. I’d like to hear your thoughts on Jericho as a burnt offering of the first fruits of coming into the land.
Wow!!! I really like that description. Makes the Jericho story make more sense.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 Stop looking for arguments Benjamin Smith. You are not welcome here
@Tim years ago, you gave a teaching at your Portland church on Jonah and described the book as being more of a “comic book” where everything was intentionally inflated, including the city of Nineveh. This many years in, do you still see that way? And can you explain?
No, there was a robber crucified next to Jesus and when he requested Jesus to remember him, he was given the assurance to be with Jesus.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 it was common culture at that time to be baptized to show loyalty and allegiance. It's not overtly commanded in the bible, because it was just unlikely to find people who followed Jesus who weren't baptized into his name. I personally believe it is required but more as the task of unwrapping the free gift. Not a required work. Salvation is free. But, Salvation comes through water.
I remember the orange..😁 Tim also use it in shema podcast..😉
Tim there is a book called Meaning of the City by Jacques Ellul, its in English! very well described!
I’am sure I missed it - But why the pauses? Is there a written outline or a place where there are questions for us to go deeper on this topic? I love The Bible Project! You are both amazing!
Hey guys, I was wondering if you could gimme the music from the intro
Didn't have to time to listen it yet, but do they mention Jacques Ellul's - The meaning of the city, or any other of his works?
Could put the playlist in order? It is difficult to listen through.
Greetings from Kenya
That Tim Keller drop...hits a little differently now...
Be still, and know that I am God
(Psalms 46:10) 🙏✝
I always considered the city as a metaphor for the body/heart. I am intrested to see if thats also their interpretation.
I have heard this too. Where I'm at now I feel like it is a metaphor for one's body but that it works on several levels. So this idea of a city is both literal and metaphorical. This idea of a city incorporates a household or a family unit in my mind too, basically- how things flourish and how things decay. The image of the city is simply the image of how the world is. Including our very selves, which is terrifying and amazing.
Do you have a link to the talk by Tim Keller on raising kids in the city? I couldn’t find it here on RUclips.
it had bouncers there hahahaha I can't stop laughing then firewall pun not intended ahhh wonderful discussion
I watched one of Tim's strange bible podcasts, or one of these conversations-- and it was the BEST, somthing about the reversal of babylon but I can't find it anymore, does anyone perhaps remember the title of the episode?
I know when he speaks on Revelation he mentions this but I couldn't give you which of the episodes it is. But I remember it being in the Revelation series because he keeps going back to the prophets mentioned and I was nerding out😂
@@maggielaw6320 thanks a million!!!
❤❤❤ 🙏
Does this tie into the discussion of spiritual warfare, and the importance of understanding dark influence on territories using “culture” as a vehicle?
This is my second video. I really enjoyed it I will send it to my kids.
Please can you explain hell.
Glory be to God. Amen.
Jacque Elul “the meaning of the city.”
I hadn't thought of it that way before, the Garden of Eden is a city. I use a scripture definition of a city. You need to pitch at tent, and a wall makes it official.
¶
I have an uncle who was mayor of a small city for decades. He defined it by maintaining the main road, the annual town hall meetings, and the town hall Christmas parties. A river runs through it, he was responsible for maintaining the main water line. There is a wall, he has an agreement with the County Sheriff for the law. More than one trespassing hunter (no license, no permission) was arrested (or told to go home and don't come back) for hunting on the mayor's land. It is an American frontier city that never grew up. It is a farming community. My uncle is also a deacon of the only city church. He got to meet everybody.
¶
The Garden of Eden is walled with gates and protected by the Elohim. This is God's city. This has a truth and consequence. Human cities are failed attempts to copy God's city. Everybody is asking, what does God need to protect his city against? The fallen angles, however briefly defined, also are a feature of the Judeo-Christian theology. The Garden of Eden is also a city.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Jesus is Lord
Near the end of this pod cast where you, Tim and John continue referring to and discussing the idea of 'City' as something that resembles human effort and tragedy but surprisingly God incorporated it and has and will use it as part of His full redemptive plan. I could not help but ponder the crucifixion of Jesus on a 'cross'.......... Made by man and used for terrible punishment YET God used it to bring about His redemptive purposes.
100%!! I think there are so many Biblical examples because God wants us to really get this part of God's character. He's a redeemer! He takes what we intend for evil and brings healing! I think what God is doing to the city perfectly explains how God works in our lives- redeeming us from the mess we've created.
Surprise! You're not just going "down with the ship," God's got you!
Podiam colocar legenda em português 😅
Through my own studies of "Cities In The Bible" The Holy Spirit revealed to me that Babylon was the 1 major city in the Bible and in the center/middle of Babylon was a Big Tower. Well ALL major cities today (no mattar the country) have an Uptown/Downtown area which is located in the center/middle of the city and they ALL have towers. So basically every major city is just a repeat of Genesis 4 happening over and over and over and over and over and over and over etc etc
There are Chaldeans today
The citizens IDed as a city is a Greek idea. Is it also biblical?
Good question ✅
Great question!
I hear you all commonly say, "the Bible is a uniform book pointing to Jesus " or something to this point...but, it seems that you are continuously are going back to Eden. (I am often reminded of the Joni Mitchell song, Woodstock. We've got to get ourselves back to the garden) This makes sense at the time (for the most part) but can you explain the reasoning behind this? I must have missed this to this time.
I’m not an expert but the Bible does point to Jesus but I think the fascination here has to do with what humanity was like without sin. So it’s almost like as if through Jesus we’re being brought back to the life God intended for us
@literarykenna yes, that makes sense and I am growing up continuously
But what does a city represent in man?
What credentials do you guys have that give you expertise in interpreting the bible, just curious, or are these just your thoughts
So I just had a quick hit from the Spirit of God! If the walls are to defend against attackers, what about the walls of the New Jerusalem??????
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 I believe, and I could be wrong, that we need to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Do we need to be dunked in water? No, but I believe we need to be baptized in His Spirit.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 Honestly, we can both go and check all the scriptures on this subject... But what are you really after?? Why question me about baptism or salvation? What are you trying to prove and who am I to say you're right or wrong? Do you just go throughout the internet quizzing people?? Just leave me alone. I'll go and check the scriptures of course, just check your heart before testing everyone you see. Thank you.
@@libertywillis4346 You're dishonestly trying to make it an either/or issue. Christ and the other preachers of God in the 1st century said it is necessary, therefore it is necessary. Heb. 6:2 even lists the doctrine concerning baptism a basic tenet. You can pretend the requirement isn't there, but you'd only be hurting yourself.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 I’m still wondering why I feel attacked. I can answer your questions, but what is your motive for attacking me and my point of view? I believe in God. I believe Jesus is the Son of God. I do not believe water baptism is the point of what baptism does, I believe being baptized in the Spirit of God is necessary and a prerequisite for further walking with the Lord. I ask you don’t assume someone’s position or point of view. God bless you. Check your motives at the door, please. Love.
Sometimes I have wondered if the New Jerusalem was the body of Christ as a group.
Are you saying the supporting network is callled dotters or daughters
As we all gather, reaped by the lamb; may we all stay close to GOD, in heart, mind and spirt.
Rest the ego
BREAHTE THE LIVING WATERS OF THE MOST HIGH.. LOVE..
GOD BLESS
This puts a new meaning to Eve, the mother of all living, the helpmeet. Jesus Christ is our Eve, our helpmeet to return to the garden, to the Father.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 Yes.
Christ is not Eve. That is outright heresy. 1 Cor. 15 shows Paul saying Christ is the second and greater Adam. Eve is a type of God's Church. It is going to be Christ's helper, not the other way around.
Christ is the bridegroom, not the bride. We are the bride of Christ.
Doesn’t it say the City of Ramses?
Is your background supposed to be a full red moon or a birthday cake?
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 why is your ma so wild?
1:06:07 I don't think Tyler the Creator mixed this episode lol. Awesome work though!
Can you please look into the loaves of bread. Its interesting that John the Baptist spoke about stone to children for Abraham and Satan spoke about stone to loaves of bread. Its odd that lots wife was turned into stone because of disobedience which is basically sin. So thoroughly engrossed about loaves of bread.
Thanks for a great study! The Genesis garden/earth/dwelling place of God & Adam/Eve brings forth life by nurturing the seed with living water & the Revelation city/New Jerusalem/dwelling place of God & the Lamb will bring forth eternal life with the Tree on both sides of the river of living water 💦 that (Ezekiel) enlivens the dead sea with fish 🐠.
It’s the Holy Spirit, dwelling place, spirit and wall of fire of God.
Jerusalem will be the rebuilt earthly city of God for those saved in flesh & Mt Zion/New Jerusalem is the city of God for those born again (glorified) in the first resurrection, saved in spirit to rule & reign from the city in the millennial reign.
The word goes forth from Jerusalem below & Zion above, the spirit of Yah is the dwelling place.
What an amazing thought. And to think of God's living water bringing me back to life... wow our God is good!
question? Why couldn't God have created more than two humans and then called them/or one into the garden to be his ambassadors to the other humans from God. Sharing their purpose to be on the earth.
Jesus took a body of flesh from just female chromosomes and dwelt within it, renewing it at the ressurection and creating a light within it and around it, protecting it from invaders and making it a beakon of light to invite others to Him. This is all true and symbolic of how he took the fallen flesh and incorporated it into the garden, making a city (named female) become a garden again. Its His body dwelling in heaven again.
Um, you're not considering that God added the male chromosomes which made Jesus male.
@Bible project a user named george wilson is spamning your comments misguiding people please look into it
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 no
You talk about God taking something flawed humans created, the City, and incorporating his own better version of it into his design with the City of Heaven. Are there other examples of that? I guess if there are, that could be a good theme to explore.
Because of internet , we all live in the city now.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 It’s believing and trusting in Jesus that saves you. The thief on the cross next to Jesus didn’t get baptized. It is an important next step and a powerful rebirthing experience. It is through the Holy Spirit that you will be able to walk in faith and persevere through suffering.
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 I admire what you are doing. Fishing on RUclips. But being saved isn’t about a formula or a religion. It’s believing and following in the way of Jesus. We make it way too complicated when we try to define the how. He is our living example. The Bible isn’t a rule book, it’s a story- it’s THE story, it’s HIS story.
I love your channel but not everything in the bible is about a garden!
It all points to the garden though ;)
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 in the spirit yes in water no! but it depends on what you mean by saved
@@dr.tinsaienegash2536no clarity whatsoever in what you just said
Douay-Rheims version has beter translation.
Seems to me that the entire idea of denominationalism is based on the human thought that we can build the city of God. Doctrines become walls to keep out unsavory characters who hold differing opinions. Jesus prayed that believers would be one in the same way that He and the Father are one. Instead, humans have a better idea and build what they believe to be the city of God. Christianity has become a Devisive multitude of walled cities that oppose one another, rather than being a unified body as God intended. We really need to get back to the basics.
Tyler The Creator?!?!
Haha I noticed that too. Presumably its someone called Tyler who also likes to create things and have a laugh.
I can't help but think that the reason God rejected Sodom and Gomorrah was not so much because they had capitalist inequality as you suggest, but because of their sexual deviancy (they even try to rape the angels who visit Lot). Do you have a good reason from the text to suggest this anti-capitalist interpretation or is it possible you are reading a modern liberal value into the text?
Jude and Peter mentions the sexual depravity of those cities as being the chief reason they were destroyed. Liberals tend to downplay that part and emphasize the other sins that were prevalent.
Here's your evidence, directly quoting God Himself, speaking to Ezekiel: 16:48 As I live,” declares the Lord God, “Sodom, your sister and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done! 49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, plenty of food, and carefree ease, but she did not [a]help the poor and needy. 50 So they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them [b]when I saw it.
Now, everything you said is also true, based upon the angels visiting Lot. Their sin are those and what God says in Ezekiel.
Jesus was pretty anti-capitalist if you're defining capitalism as "not taking care of poor around you." The poor have been fighting against this unequal distribution of wealth that isn't reflective of one's work long before we had a theory of capitalism. Jesus's monetary ethic is far clearer than his sexual one. I'm not trying to downplay sexual sin but the way we handle our finances is not a small thing to God
"He who will not work should not eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)
I really don’t get what you are talking about
Are you saying it’s a sin to build or live in a city?
What are you talking about? Bad comes from sin, not from concentrated settlements.
it wasn't the "City" of Sodom that influenced Lot, it was the sin of the PEOPLE of Sodom......
Babylon the "City" is not evil, it was the PEOPLE of Babylon that were in the wrong, not the concentrated settlement called Babylon.
and as you DID point out, the kingdom of God has a ginormous capital city - New Jerusalem. and there was still the Jerusalem of today who Jesus seemed to love in the gospels.
Why is a city called a she?
The city life is "real" so life in the country or small towns aren't real, they're fake? Really not a good start. Your bias is showing.
Too many ads , makes it hard to listen with soooo many interruptions, thanks snyway