Really appreciate your desire to clarify that you only wanted to provide accurate information, rather than putting anyone down. Really good info as always, thanks guys :)
Great to see that finally someone tries to really understand and share with the community how materials work. RUclips is full of different content that applies only to one manufacturer however it is taken as a general rule. Lesson to be take from this one, resins, carbon and foam/rubber combination makes the paddle. And brands only tell us about rubber and last layer of carbon, so no way to guess about a paddle until you try it. Great video as always Gonzalo, and like to the RR Expert!!
Nicely explained guys - I'm also an aeronautical engineer and a pádel coach. Studied composite materials at university as well. I feel one area also to consider would be the directional strength of the weave depending on how the Carbon fiber or fiberglass fabric layers are stuck on top of each other. Great channel and content, keep it up! Gracias 😊
Thanks for the technical explanation! Most of the times the brands try to introduce technical terminology as sales arguments and create confusion to the users. Great video!
From a material science as opposed to Padel perspective, the main reason for using carbon fibre in a composite is to exploit its three main properties: 1. High strength to weight ratio or Specific Strength; 2. Stiffness or Youngs Modulus; and 3. Bidirectional properties - ability to orientate the weave to control strength and stiffness in different directions or planes. This flexibility makes objectively comparing carbon composites very, very difficult indeed.
Such a useful comment! This reminds me of Aerospace Materials subject when I was at uni 😍 It was a bit hard for us to decide how deep we wanted to dive into the technical aspects. Our main debate was whether we had gone too deep or too superficial 🙈
Well presented to clarify a common misconception within the community! Can definitely confirm that K isn't everything when it comes to stiffness comparing my Triton and my AT10 18k, since the AT10 absolutely feels softer than the Triton!
Amazing video and definitely debunks a lot of rumours about hardness and quality! I'll ignorantly ask, why is carbon fibre needed at all? Take a situation where the other layers / materials provide good feedback, what is the true additional benefit of having an xK layer on top?
Thanks a lot 💙 Carbon fibre has different properties than fibre glass. Fibre glass is more elastic, carbon fibre gives a bit more feeling when you are playing and it lasts longer!
Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated! ps. I have both the Vertex 03 CTR and the Hack 03 CTR. There is absolutely no question about it; the Hack is way harder than the Vertex.
Very interesting. I have played with Vertex for a few years but when I tested Hack quickly I thought it was much softer or more springy than Vertex. I was expecting Hack to be almost rock solid but was very surprised about it feeling soft or softer than Vertex. [Edit] Oh did miss you were talking about the CTR versions but I guess the same applies to them too anyway.
@@sebulbathx, yeah I only have the CTR versions. Not sure if they differ from their more aggressive counterparts. I've played them back to back (same circumstances, same balls, etc) and the difference is very noticable. I first had the Hack and bought the Vertex shortly after. The Hack feels more like a wooden plank compared to the softer touch of the Vertex. The Vertex feels more similar to my BP Ionic 23 CTR.
I wish brands would use a meassurement of stiffness vs sweet spot on each racket, they must have it in mind when creating the specific layers what the end goal is, but to us users we only have the superficial K number to base it on, so no wonder misinformation starts spreading when the Carbon thread count becomes part of a rackets name...
That’s a really good point! I guess it makes sense when you have two models where only the outer layer change from 12k to 18k for example. Although we don’t know if that is the case 🙈
I completely agree! I have a Drop Shot racket made of 24K carbon fiber, and it's much softer compared to the Varlion Bourne Summum, which uses 12K carbon fiber. The difference of hardness primarily comes down to the core material used in the racket, such as EVA versus foam rubber.
Thanks for video! The problem with facts and what manufacturer say is that they sometimes or maybe even often times label or call things how they want themselves because of marketing reasons. One thing also is the foam which padel manufacturer call all kinds of names but most of them probably use the same types of foams in the end anyway.This makes it really difficult for customers to have the real facts solely from manufacturers, imo. So to actually know it's better to do your own research about materials and such.
Excellent video, although if both rackets had everything the same and only the outer layer of carbon was different: 12k is harder than 18k because the carbon is more braided and that gives it more rigidity.
muy interesante!! gracias por la info, es un lio a la hora de comprar una pala. Buena idea meter contenido de este tipo también. Otro día podríais hablar de trucos para el grip por ejemplo, yo me he comprado magnesio liquido para que no resbale tanto... se lo vi a un chico. Un saludo y animo!
I appreciate what you were trying to do in the video, but it really didn’t clarify anything at all. Such technical videos would greatly benefit from graphics, rather than just two guys sitting and talking. Also good on you in recommending Ewan’s channel, I do love his content.
Maybe you didn’t get the point of the video? Graphs would have been useful to show how the different variables (density, number of layers…) affect the hardness of the racket, but this would make the video more technical. The point we wanted to make was simpler than that
Excellent content 👏🏼 Thanks for doing an effort to clearifying the Marketing Confussion around Carbon Fibre in the Padel Market. There is ONE racket brand on the Market where the hittingsurface and frame is made from 100% Carbon fibre. WALLICH padel racket. Small Swedish startup business, truely building different rackets and trying to give the padel player an alternative to rackets that break (too) easily and the Foam gets weak after a short periode of Play. Could you Consider making Content about durabilitet of Padel Rackets and Balls. We/padel players Could, and should “Demand” something more from the Manufactors. Sustainability. 🌱🎾
@@Gerotorra I see the appeal though. I currently have a Hack 03 CTRL 2022 edition, and I love it, but it was one of the last ones available, it's not easy to find one for sale, so now I'm gonna have to hunt for another racket I really like and I don't have the ability to try a lot of rackets out before buying. I'm probably gonna end up with the 23 version, but that's also in low supply now, and following years and probably never again, will there be a round Hack racket for me to pick up... If I could use a racket for many years without it dropping in performance or cracking, then i'd do it, but Wallich is too expensive for me to actually commit to it.
The reality is that it is very hard to compare these since it would be a very hypothetical scenario. I think it would be very weird to have exactly the same configuration on a 12k and 18k. On one side the 18k would be thicker but the 12k would always be more tightly packed
Padel Drive brought in an aerospace engineer to style on everythingpadel. Beef in the making? :D Just joking! From where I play the majority thinks higher K means harder racket, but then there we're people saying that it was the other way around, that the lower the K count the harder the racket. And now we learn that it's nothing but a sales pitch without any actual information about the racket, apart from it being pure carbon.
Open to the criticism here,as by simplifying I’ve made it unclear. The technical capabilities and carbon definition explained by Gonzalo is correct, and there are many other variables, but he has 10 minutes to explain 😉 The reference to approx mm is a very simple way for a player to distinguish what they are using, and approx stiffness/flex. As Gonzalo explains, a rackets resulting output is a combination of factors, so it’s hard to give a standard answer. See you on court soon Gonzalo 😅
@@maximillianholloway3594 thanks for commenting Max! I imagined you wanted to link the size of the square with the K, but I personally found the idea of including mm in the definition quite confusing. I have had quite a few students asking about this recently so thought it was worth clarifying. See you soon on court 💪
The mm is not an exact science of course, but does enable the average/non-informed player to distinguish between rackets in their hand or on the shelf when there is no one to guide them. So the pattern can help purely as a guide. Off the cuff I will make sure I am clearer in future about tech aspects. Good job on the video 👍
I think its very misleading that brands can say their rackets are "full carbon", when in reality its carbon + X layers of fiberglass. It also hides quality differences between different brands, where one brand can use more carbon than the other, but get away with it.
I agree. I find it quite funny because it seems everyone associates the fact that fibre glass is cheaper with lower quality (when in reality it is just a different material with different properties)
No no no. The harder the Padel does not mean the more powerful the stroke. Of course the number 12 or 18 does not mean millimetres between the weave. That would be a few strands. Not a weave. Here's the thing... imho. The harder the Padel the lower the speed off the surface. Why? Because although the ball will technically flatten more against the surface ... the Padel won't. Which means more control. The softer the surface of the padel the faster the ball will fly off the surface. Ironic isn't it. However... padel tech is currently rubbish. We are in the wood laminate era compared to tennis racquets of the 70s. It's really all down to the player and timing. I great player would probably beat me with a £20 padel even if I have the best one on the market. The bottom line: just make sure you have a padel with a very sticky surface.
Thanks for the comment! I don’t agree on this one. The technology of SOME of the padel brands and the materials used are the latest start of the art. What you mention on ball-padel surface behaviour only applies at low swing speeds. At high speed is the opposite
@@padeldriver Would you (or Carlos) care to comment on which companies those might be, with regards to the use of the most advanced materials and also as to the highest production standards for them?
Really appreciate your desire to clarify that you only wanted to provide accurate information, rather than putting anyone down. Really good info as always, thanks guys :)
Thanks a lot for your comment 💙 Very glad you appreciate this 🥰
Great to see that finally someone tries to really understand and share with the community how materials work. RUclips is full of different content that applies only to one manufacturer however it is taken as a general rule. Lesson to be take from this one, resins, carbon and foam/rubber combination makes the paddle. And brands only tell us about rubber and last layer of carbon, so no way to guess about a paddle until you try it. Great video as always Gonzalo, and like to the RR Expert!!
Thanks a lot Ernesto 💙 you are completely right! Actually the right word is foam, unfortunately I said “rubber” on the video 🙄
Finally a technical explanation to clean up some confusion, also good job keeping it simple! Easy to follow and comprehend.
Really appreciate your words 🙌 Thanks for your comment!
Nicely explained guys - I'm also an aeronautical engineer and a pádel coach. Studied composite materials at university as well. I feel one area also to consider would be the directional strength of the weave depending on how the Carbon fiber or fiberglass fabric layers are stuck on top of each other. Great channel and content, keep it up! Gracias 😊
Thanks a lot Arturo! Seems like we have a few things in common! 🙌
Thanks for the technical explanation! Most of the times the brands try to introduce technical terminology as sales arguments and create confusion to the users. Great video!
Agree! Brands could at least provide more info about how their models compare among each other
From a material science as opposed to Padel perspective, the main reason for using carbon fibre in a composite is to exploit its three main properties: 1. High strength to weight ratio or Specific Strength; 2. Stiffness or Youngs Modulus; and 3. Bidirectional properties - ability to orientate the weave to control strength and stiffness in different directions or planes. This flexibility makes objectively comparing carbon composites very, very difficult indeed.
Such a useful comment! This reminds me of Aerospace Materials subject when I was at uni 😍 It was a bit hard for us to decide how deep we wanted to dive into the technical aspects. Our main debate was whether we had gone too deep or too superficial 🙈
Well presented to clarify a common misconception within the community!
Can definitely confirm that K isn't everything when it comes to stiffness comparing my Triton and my AT10 18k, since the AT10 absolutely feels softer than the Triton!
Thanks a lot for your comment 🙌 Exactly, the K isn’t everything!
Great video! Glad my understanding matches as I have researched this online for ages, there are so many conflicting views as you say.
Thanks David! See you soon 🙌
Definitely need to see a Gonzalo/Carlos vs Euan/Max grudge match on RUclips after this!!!
Game on 😅
@@guywood1467 😂 that would actually be a good game
Amazing video and definitely debunks a lot of rumours about hardness and quality! I'll ignorantly ask, why is carbon fibre needed at all? Take a situation where the other layers / materials provide good feedback, what is the true additional benefit of having an xK layer on top?
Thanks a lot 💙 Carbon fibre has different properties than fibre glass. Fibre glass is more elastic, carbon fibre gives a bit more feeling when you are playing and it lasts longer!
The last advice is the best advice, when it comes to which racket to choose. 👍
🫶
Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated!
ps. I have both the Vertex 03 CTR and the Hack 03 CTR. There is absolutely no question about it; the Hack is way harder than the Vertex.
Thanks for sharing your feedback 🫶
Very interesting. I have played with Vertex for a few years but when I tested Hack quickly I thought it was much softer or more springy than Vertex. I was expecting Hack to be almost rock solid but was very surprised about it feeling soft or softer than Vertex.
[Edit] Oh did miss you were talking about the CTR versions but I guess the same applies to them too anyway.
@@sebulbathx, yeah I only have the CTR versions. Not sure if they differ from their more aggressive counterparts. I've played them back to back (same circumstances, same balls, etc) and the difference is very noticable. I first had the Hack and bought the Vertex shortly after. The Hack feels more like a wooden plank compared to the softer touch of the Vertex. The Vertex feels more similar to my BP Ionic 23 CTR.
I wish brands would use a meassurement of stiffness vs sweet spot on each racket, they must have it in mind when creating the specific layers what the end goal is, but to us users we only have the superficial K number to base it on, so no wonder misinformation starts spreading when the Carbon thread count becomes part of a rackets name...
That’s a really good point! I guess it makes sense when you have two models where only the outer layer change from 12k to 18k for example. Although we don’t know if that is the case 🙈
Finally somebody says this correctly. I have telling this to my customers million times and It Hans been Long road 😅
Thanks Latimo 🙌🫶
I completely agree! I have a Drop Shot racket made of 24K carbon fiber, and it's much softer compared to the Varlion Bourne Summum, which uses 12K carbon fiber. The difference of hardness primarily comes down to the core material used in the racket, such as EVA versus foam rubber.
Thanks for sharing your feedback 🙌💙
Thanks for video!
The problem with facts and what manufacturer say is that they sometimes or maybe even often times label or call things how they want themselves because of marketing reasons. One thing also is the foam which padel manufacturer call all kinds of names but most of them probably use the same types of foams in the end anyway.This makes it really difficult for customers to have the real facts solely from manufacturers, imo. So to actually know it's better to do your own research about materials and such.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙌 I think you made a really good point!
lo mataste jaja - a great informative video, even if it means you will never be sponsored by Bullpadel UK now 😂
Thanks for the comment Nick 💙 well if I was working with Bullpadel I would still like to be able to say what I think 🙄
Excellent video, although if both rackets had everything the same and only the outer layer of carbon was different: 12k is harder than 18k because the carbon is more braided and that gives it more rigidity.
Thanks a lot for the comment 💙 the reality is that that comparison is a very hypothetical scenario
Wow! Thank you for this!
🙌💙
muy interesante!! gracias por la info, es un lio a la hora de comprar una pala. Buena idea meter contenido de este tipo también. Otro día podríais hablar de trucos para el grip por ejemplo, yo me he comprado magnesio liquido para que no resbale tanto... se lo vi a un chico. Un saludo y animo!
Nos lo apuntamos! Como siempre, muchísimas gracias Juan 💙🙌
I appreciate what you were trying to do in the video, but it really didn’t clarify anything at all. Such technical videos would greatly benefit from graphics, rather than just two guys sitting and talking. Also good on you in recommending Ewan’s channel, I do love his content.
Maybe you didn’t get the point of the video? Graphs would have been useful to show how the different variables (density, number of layers…) affect the hardness of the racket, but this would make the video more technical. The point we wanted to make was simpler than that
Excellent content 👏🏼 Thanks for doing an effort to clearifying the Marketing Confussion around Carbon Fibre in the Padel Market. There is ONE racket brand on the Market where the hittingsurface and frame is made from 100% Carbon fibre. WALLICH padel racket. Small Swedish startup business, truely building different rackets and trying to give the padel player an alternative to rackets that break (too) easily and the Foam gets weak after a short periode of Play. Could you Consider making Content about durabilitet of Padel Rackets and Balls. We/padel players Could, and should “Demand” something more from the Manufactors. Sustainability. 🌱🎾
Must say I rather buy different rackets over a shorter period of time because of the new techs developing, then buying a 800+ wallich racket.
@@Gerotorra I see the appeal though. I currently have a Hack 03 CTRL 2022 edition, and I love it, but it was one of the last ones available, it's not easy to find one for sale, so now I'm gonna have to hunt for another racket I really like and I don't have the ability to try a lot of rackets out before buying.
I'm probably gonna end up with the 23 version, but that's also in low supply now, and following years and probably never again, will there be a round Hack racket for me to pick up...
If I could use a racket for many years without it dropping in performance or cracking, then i'd do it, but Wallich is too expensive for me to actually commit to it.
Damnn aerospace engineer for rolls royce, that's so cool :D
Thanks Jesper! It is actually very cool 🙌
Super Good video.
Thanks for commenting 🫶
but if we have same rubber same layer,, who whill be harder? 3k or 18k? i will say 3k.. i am right?
The reality is that it is very hard to compare these since it would be a very hypothetical scenario. I think it would be very weird to have exactly the same configuration on a 12k and 18k. On one side the 18k would be thicker but the 12k would always be more tightly packed
I think this is the question most people want to know the answer to
Finally someone put this issue to bed, I’ve wasted so much time reading misinformed views on this.
@@lukeyd13 very glad to see it was useful 💙
Padel Drive brought in an aerospace engineer to style on everythingpadel. Beef in the making? :D Just joking!
From where I play the majority thinks higher K means harder racket, but then there we're people saying that it was the other way around, that the lower the K count the harder the racket. And now we learn that it's nothing but a sales pitch without any actual information about the racket, apart from it being pure carbon.
Hahahahaha I owe Carlos a beer 🤪
omg the K = 1000 makes so much sense that i never understood before
1000 filaments*
Open to the criticism here,as by simplifying I’ve made it unclear. The technical capabilities and carbon definition explained by Gonzalo is correct, and there are many other variables, but he has 10 minutes to explain 😉 The reference to approx mm is a very simple way for a player to distinguish what they are using, and approx stiffness/flex. As Gonzalo explains, a rackets resulting output is a combination of factors, so it’s hard to give a standard answer. See you on court soon Gonzalo 😅
@@maximillianholloway3594 thanks for commenting Max! I imagined you wanted to link the size of the square with the K, but I personally found the idea of including mm in the definition quite confusing. I have had quite a few students asking about this recently so thought it was worth clarifying. See you soon on court 💪
The mm is not an exact science of course, but does enable the average/non-informed player to distinguish between rackets in their hand or on the shelf when there is no one to guide them. So the pattern can help purely as a guide. Off the cuff I will make sure I am clearer in future about tech aspects. Good job on the video 👍
the real questions is, all other things being the same… what difference does the K make. same manufacturing, number of layers, etc…
This is a very hypothetical scenario since in reality a 12k and 18k layer would look different
You work in 'horserace'???
I think its very misleading that brands can say their rackets are "full carbon", when in reality its carbon + X layers of fiberglass. It also hides quality differences between different brands, where one brand can use more carbon than the other, but get away with it.
I agree. I find it quite funny because it seems everyone associates the fact that fibre glass is cheaper with lower quality (when in reality it is just a different material with different properties)
Padel🤝 Rocket science
Padel Drivers
🚀🎾🙌
Thanks again for the video! Do you know which racket is the hardest/stiffest? Is it a marketing the 12K or 18K?
Thanks 💙 in this case, the hack
No no no. The harder the Padel does not mean the more powerful the stroke.
Of course the number 12 or 18 does not mean millimetres between the weave. That would be a few strands. Not a weave.
Here's the thing... imho.
The harder the Padel the lower the speed off the surface. Why? Because although the ball will technically flatten more against the surface ... the Padel won't. Which means more control. The softer the surface of the padel the faster the ball will fly off the surface. Ironic isn't it.
However... padel tech is currently rubbish. We are in the wood laminate era compared to tennis racquets of the 70s. It's really all down to the player and timing. I great player would probably beat me with a £20 padel even if I have the best one on the market.
The bottom line: just make sure you have a padel with a very sticky surface.
Thanks for the comment!
I don’t agree on this one. The technology of SOME of the padel brands and the materials used are the latest start of the art.
What you mention on ball-padel surface behaviour only applies at low swing speeds. At high speed is the opposite
@@padeldriver Would you (or Carlos) care to comment on which companies those might be, with regards to the use of the most advanced materials and also as to the highest production standards for them?
ruclips.net/video/EsRnSm1gmlw/видео.htmlsi=lmCeHdV6ZMBnB2Sw&t=309
Maybe the more K the more durability ?