Sleeved aero suit €75, TT helmet €99, aero bottle €27, bottle & cage between the arms €29, bottle behind the saddle (only over 50km rides) €39, deep section (Chinese) wheels €199. Saves me about 7kph between training & racing @ 160HR. Is it worth it? Dunno, but half the fun is scowering the internet for bargains. So, yeah it’s worth it.
Rider's position: the cheapest Watts ever! Rider's fitness: the best for both: results AND rider's health. The rest... marketing ;-) (for the amateur at least - not the pro who already made all possible he could have)
you still wouldn't want to push a square wheel regardless of fitness level, but agree if it's all about cheapest watts, shave your legs, get a skinsuit and work with your position, the rest is just marginal gains.
@@nissenalf Work hard on the engine all the time....but reasonably serious age-groupers are always looking for ways to shave time. Especially when it only costs money - not effort :-)
Even though there are watt gains by having no to very little venting on your helmet and shoes. But how is your performance affected and possibly reduced because your body is overheating and perhaps perspiring more and not getting sufficient cooling, causing it to tire an burn more energy making it less efficient?
This is pretty interesting. All those tiny gains can add up. The time lost putting those shoe covers on will most likely outweigh the time savings generated during the ride, though. Saving watts is only useful if it saves time.
Best improvement of wattage - get a coach and a good training schedule. I've seen my athletes making quite some improvements in a year by just training in a focused way. You can add whatever aero stuff you want, it's still your body (and mind) who need to make you go fast!
Making your comment irrelevant because that was not the subject of the video. The premise of the video is what can be improved on your equipment, not on your trainer/training schedule. If you can quantify the watt savings based on coach quality and training schedules maybe you should make a video out of it...
That is NOT financially correct. You can not divide, for example, 4 watts you save by price of Bont shoe cuz you can not ride barefooted. You must divide by delta between price of regular shoe and the Bont pair.
ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS VIDEO! i work in a place where we have a windtunnel ourselves and do also some aero testing! Victor campenaerts was in our windtunnel before his our record 🤙🏾🤙🏾
Awesome video, completely agree, I went to my local expert and we found the water bottle in the aerobars gave me a gain of 2 watts, the aero helmet did not add any benefit so we stuck with the aero road helmet. The aero suit is a huge saving, however I really struggle to swim with any kind of top under my wetsuit. Result I have to have a 2 piece tri-suit, and opted for the vest, hearing this video, that was clearly a mistake.
It is quite depressing looking at how many watts I'm losing by having road shoes, two bottles, basic wheels and all the other stuff that is being used as the baseline. I know really though, till I can get my FTP a lot higher, I'm the biggest thing holding the bike back. Would be nice though to splash all the cash and see if is gives an actual noticeable difference.
The part about the shoes was interesting and i though maybe i’m missing a trick. But, they are not tri shoes are they? Surely you’d lose more time getting your feet into the shoes?
I like the idea of the video, however using the most expensive wheels availability is hardly a good way to do it. For a 1000 pound you can get a cracking set of wheels from many brands and at way less than half the price of a set Enves
Nerd alert - might already be somewhere below. If we are talking about watts saved we also have to talk money saved so only the difference between the aero and non-aero accessory should be in the numerator...
Hi ! Have you tested Aero Calf Sleeves like those form Zoot (Elite Aero Calf Sleeves) or Huub Aero Calf Sleeves. Huub claims that these Claf Sleeves save up 8 Watts, if this is ture i would be a huge gain for only 50 Bucks. I very curious how these aero Calf Sleeves perform vs perfecly shaved legs. I would realy appricate an answer. Best from Germany Eddy
Chrissy Wellington always rode with a normal well ventalated helmet and was the strongest on the bike. Would she have been even faster with areo helmet or does comfort and feel become more advantages.
Comfort and feel is definitely a huge advantage. I imagine she would’ve rode faster, but perhaps for her she found it impacted her on the run. Particularly if it was a hot race. We might have to ask her...
cost per watt but i think its also mentally , look if you think your bike looks 200 % better with deepsection wheels ur willing and able to dig just that little bit deeper imo
Would be interesting to know more about detailed aero tweaks on some of these categories, i.e. trisuits with aero materials vs regular sleeved tri suits or deep regular section wheels vs something like a Zipp 858 NSW
How many Watts does a (not so aero) GB tri suit cost, compared to other nations that have noticeably better kit? Do pro ITU athletes have better kit? or do they suffer with the same problem/issue?
We can see a lots of cost per watt comparison but it depends on speed, I think it would be better to tell in the end how many seconds you gain for some distance in ex for one half ironman...
My wife and I have only ever used sleeveless try suits. But as ours are old we will be upgrading to sleeve ones for sure, but do not know anything about them or what is a good one versus a bad one and what to look forward to get those best arrow advantages. GTN if you could Offer up some advice what to look for or just quality name brand would be appreciated
Nothing comes close to Heather’s sparkly tail fin though. Cost of material and two paint brushes £10 and a 30w saving (even if 3w came from removing the bottle)!! With that in mind it’s not surprising that Sunweb (I think it was) use ass savers. I suspect they worked out that it saves watts.
Ah did they? I will have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up. This was meant to go out a couple of months back, but we had to work around Simon’s busy time schedule
Question @ Mark: besides running the greatest YT channel with your mates and being a great triathlete and badass runner and obviously also great overall dude - are you also a guitarist ? Saw the instrument in a few of the later GTN renditions that were recorded from your homes for obvious reasons - love your channel !!
We are a musical household. Unfortunately I do not contribute much to it 😂 I used to play guitar, but it’s been a very long time. It’s incredibly dusty
Playing guitar is also my other interest besides sports. Now that I am 53 I have a little more time for the guitar again though still crazy about triathlon and sports in general. So it's great to keep the guitar, times to dust it off might come..
4 года назад
There are a lot of deep section wheels from other reputable brands at much lower prices than these, and same for helmets, which makes these price per watt calculations a little off vs what I came up with when I did my shopping research... At least when aero gains are your only metric!
Of course. I had hoped to talk through more wheels, but we had too much to get through. Zipp cost relatively similar, and Simon had a lot of knowledge in those specific wheels - so it seemed like the obvious example
The bike shape itself is missing in this calculation. Would be interesting to see the normal road bike as base line, then road bike with aero bars, aero road bike with aero bars and TT bike. Upgrade cost from normal road bike to TT bike of the same brand with similar components is maybe 500-1000€. Aerobars only maybe 50-150€.
If you invest in expensive equipment to improve laminar airflow, why ruin it with filled bulky pockets at the jersey. This will ruin any investment. At the end, air resistance is determined how much you ruin the total airflow - and DON'T look down, if you have an aero helmet.
Nerdy aero stuff is always fun! Would have loved if you mentioned in the bottle aspect, if there is a penalty for an standard bottle between the arms 🤓 Great stuff thogh
We did cover this, but it was sadly too long for this video. Maybe one for future. In summary, it depends on your position. They’ve found it has little to no effect for most people, providing it doesn’t force your arms out wider
I understand this but I think the best part of aerodynamics gains is that you can go in the same speed but using less energy, with this argument I think that it worth
If you get them all do you really get all the watt savings? I doubt it, some how I suspect the numbers aren't linear just like wind resistance. I suspect that all the measurements were made at some base speed. This stuff is never this simple.
Of course, it’s a very complicated area. Obviously these are all savings from our baseline number. If you’re using the baseline products, then yes there could be huge savings. For most, I’d imagine it’s just small improvements here and there
800$ per watt for overpriced brand wheels - 3200$ total...Get chinese quality carbon pair from Lightbycicle, for 800$, so watt is now 150-200$... 300g is consideration for massively aerodynamic wheel, and you ride it on flat on low inclines in Triathlons always, but disc brakes who are 500g heavier and much less aero than rim brakes, give you less aero wheel, less aero frame, they are good :D
More speed = more Watts saved from improved aero kit, but slower speed = more time saved (as a percentage)? Drag is proportional to CD * V^2. So the less able athlete has more to gain??
or just go buy a planet x helmet and get a road helmet for £20. can't believe people are being ripped off £175! for something that is so cheap. Cyclists are divas!
There's an enormous brand appeal in the cycling industry, cyclists really are nitpicky about not only the type of gear they buy, but also the manufacturere of their equipment. At some point it really does turn into a plain ripoff.
$ per Watt is a pointless and quite ignorant metric. Say gadget A saves you 1W and costs $10 Say gadget B saves you 10W and costs $1000 If you want to win the race you get B. Or both A and B.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
What are the best aero upgrades you've made? Leave us a comment!
I turn my head 180 degrees every time I exhale. Return to the front to inhale. If I really work on it I can go 5 mph without peddling.
Sleeved aero suit €75, TT helmet €99, aero bottle €27, bottle & cage between the arms €29, bottle behind the saddle (only over 50km rides) €39, deep section (Chinese) wheels €199. Saves me about 7kph between training & racing @ 160HR. Is it worth it? Dunno, but half the fun is scowering the internet for bargains. So, yeah it’s worth it.
Shaved my legs...morning of event.
aero bars for sure
1. Recumbent 2. cloth fairing
Great video, but you could have made a table with all the results at the end!
Sorry, something for the next one. There was a lot of data there hey!
Weren't you taking notes?
@@markthrelfall3577 I forgive you 😆
Its so nice to see a proper time-served and qualified aerodynamics engineer dishing out aerodynamics advice! Really enjoyed the video.
Rider's position: the cheapest Watts ever! Rider's fitness: the best for both: results AND rider's health. The rest... marketing ;-) (for the amateur at least - not the pro who already made all possible he could have)
you still wouldn't want to push a square wheel regardless of fitness level, but agree if it's all about cheapest watts, shave your legs, get a skinsuit and work with your position, the rest is just marginal gains.
Thank you. 🤩
@@nissenalf Work hard on the engine all the time....but reasonably serious age-groupers are always looking for ways to shave time. Especially when it only costs money - not effort :-)
Even though there are watt gains by having no to very little venting on your helmet and shoes. But how is your performance affected and possibly reduced because your body is overheating and perhaps perspiring more and not getting sufficient cooling, causing it to tire an burn more energy making it less efficient?
This is pretty interesting. All those tiny gains can add up. The time lost putting those shoe covers on will most likely outweigh the time savings generated during the ride, though. Saving watts is only useful if it saves time.
Yeh but your ride looks way more impressive on Strava :P
You should hace made a spreadsheet or something in the end
Best improvement of wattage - get a coach and a good training schedule. I've seen my athletes making quite some improvements in a year by just training in a focused way. You can add whatever aero stuff you want, it's still your body (and mind) who need to make you go fast!
Making your comment irrelevant because that was not the subject of the video. The premise of the video is what can be improved on your equipment, not on your trainer/training schedule.
If you can quantify the watt savings based on coach quality and training schedules maybe you should make a video out of it...
When are we going to get a face-melting guitar solo from that axe in the corner of the room? 🤘
That is NOT financially correct. You can not divide, for example, 4 watts you save by price of Bont shoe cuz you can not ride barefooted. You must divide by delta between price of regular shoe and the Bont pair.
Yes, exactly! It should have been the *marginal cost* of the improved tech divided by the *marginal gain* in watts.
ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS VIDEO! i work in a place where we have a windtunnel ourselves and do also some aero testing! Victor campenaerts was in our windtunnel before his our record 🤙🏾🤙🏾
Thanks, very informative! Especially the data about the shoe and shoe covers - this is hard to get on this anywhere else.
Awesome video, completely agree, I went to my local expert and we found the water bottle in the aerobars gave me a gain of 2 watts, the aero helmet did not add any benefit so we stuck with the aero road helmet. The aero suit is a huge saving, however I really struggle to swim with any kind of top under my wetsuit. Result I have to have a 2 piece tri-suit, and opted for the vest, hearing this video, that was clearly a mistake.
It is quite depressing looking at how many watts I'm losing by having road shoes, two bottles, basic wheels and all the other stuff that is being used as the baseline. I know really though, till I can get my FTP a lot higher, I'm the biggest thing holding the bike back. Would be nice though to splash all the cash and see if is gives an actual noticeable difference.
The part about the shoes was interesting and i though maybe i’m missing a trick. But, they are not tri shoes are they? Surely you’d lose more time getting your feet into the shoes?
I like the idea of the video, however using the most expensive wheels availability is hardly a good way to do it. For a 1000 pound you can get a cracking set of wheels from many brands and at way less than half the price of a set Enves
Nerd alert - might already be somewhere below. If we are talking about watts saved we also have to talk money saved so only the difference between the aero and non-aero accessory should be in the numerator...
Hi ! Have you tested Aero Calf Sleeves like those form Zoot (Elite Aero Calf Sleeves) or Huub Aero Calf Sleeves. Huub claims that these Claf Sleeves save up 8 Watts, if this is ture i would be a huge gain for only 50 Bucks. I very curious how these aero Calf Sleeves perform vs perfecly shaved legs. I would realy appricate an answer. Best from Germany Eddy
These numbers dont really match with the ones in the GCN video. They found a much bigger gain for TT helmets. Like 35 watts
Yeah, we should make a video "gcn and gtn go head to head in experimental design....who will win this epic battle" 😉🤣🤣🤣
Chrissy Wellington always rode with a normal well ventalated helmet and was the strongest on the bike. Would she have been even faster with areo helmet or does comfort and feel become more advantages.
Comfort and feel is definitely a huge advantage. I imagine she would’ve rode faster, but perhaps for her she found it impacted her on the run. Particularly if it was a hot race. We might have to ask her...
If it's a hot race, then an aero helmet can cost you time even if it is saving you watts. It's a definite balance
Free speed: know your correct tire pressure! (Hint: you are likely over inflating ;)
cost per watt but i think its also mentally , look if you think your bike looks 200 % better with deepsection wheels ur willing and able to dig just that little bit deeper imo
Would be interesting to know more about detailed aero tweaks on some of these categories, i.e. trisuits with aero materials vs regular sleeved tri suits or deep regular section wheels vs something like a Zipp 858 NSW
Which bottle position of more aero? Seat tube or behind the seat?
How many Watts does a (not so aero) GB tri suit cost, compared to other nations that have noticeably better kit? Do pro ITU athletes have better kit? or do they suffer with the same problem/issue?
My Giro Vanquish has helped a little.
We can see a lots of cost per watt comparison but it depends on speed, I think it would be better to tell in the end how many seconds you gain for some distance in ex for one half ironman...
Would love to hear about the oversized pulley systems
£500 for a 0.5w saving in friction and 1.0 w penalty for aerodynamics ,so £500 to add 0.5 w
Excellent information. I now know I have to invest in a tri suit, bont shoes, and an tt helmet 😋
My wife and I have only ever used sleeveless try suits. But as ours are old we will be upgrading to sleeve ones for sure, but do not know anything about them or what is a good one versus a bad one and what to look forward to get those best arrow advantages. GTN if you could Offer up some advice what to look for or just quality name brand would be appreciated
Looks good have not used it yet
I tried to do as many triathlons in a day yesterday!! So tired now x
How many did you do?
What sort of bike do you have
Victoria Wilkinson I just posted a video on my channel i would be really greatful if you went and checked it out! Then you can find out the answer 😉
Fitfun Fun definitely not a super expensive one but a boardman
Wow well done!!!
Great, helpful video.
What about bta bottles and trispoke versus disc?
How about the latest Specialized SHIV? How many watts does it give?
Nothing comes close to Heather’s sparkly tail fin though. Cost of material and two paint brushes £10 and a 30w saving (even if 3w came from removing the bottle)!! With that in mind it’s not surprising that Sunweb (I think it was) use ass savers. I suspect they worked out that it saves watts.
🤣
Yeah they went over all of this a week or two ago on that triathlon show podcast with josh portner from silca
Ah did they? I will have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up. This was meant to go out a couple of months back, but we had to work around Simon’s busy time schedule
Question @ Mark: besides running the greatest YT channel with your mates and being a great triathlete and badass runner and obviously also great overall dude - are you also a guitarist ? Saw the instrument in a few of the later GTN renditions that were recorded from your homes for obvious reasons - love your channel !!
We are a musical household. Unfortunately I do not contribute much to it 😂
I used to play guitar, but it’s been a very long time. It’s incredibly dusty
Playing guitar is also my other interest besides sports. Now that I am 53 I have a little more time for the guitar again though still crazy about triathlon and sports in general. So it's great to keep the guitar, times to dust it off might come..
There are a lot of deep section wheels from other reputable brands at much lower prices than these, and same for helmets, which makes these price per watt calculations a little off vs what I came up with when I did my shopping research... At least when aero gains are your only metric!
Of course. I had hoped to talk through more wheels, but we had too much to get through. Zipp cost relatively similar, and Simon had a lot of knowledge in those specific wheels - so it seemed like the obvious example
Can clip pedals be used
Fantastic. This is going to save me so much money to start with :-)
The bike shape itself is missing in this calculation. Would be interesting to see the normal road bike as base line, then road bike with aero bars, aero road bike with aero bars and TT bike. Upgrade cost from normal road bike to TT bike of the same brand with similar components is maybe 500-1000€. Aerobars only maybe 50-150€.
Nice idea Alex 🙌
If you invest in expensive equipment to improve laminar airflow, why ruin it with filled bulky pockets at the jersey. This will ruin any investment. At the end, air resistance is determined how much you ruin the total airflow - and DON'T look down, if you have an aero helmet.
Nerdy aero stuff is always fun!
Would have loved if you mentioned in the bottle aspect, if there is a penalty for an standard bottle between the arms 🤓
Great stuff thogh
I heard someone say that a bottle between the arms can save 3-4 watts @ 40kph
Study finds that bottle between arms is the most aero, more then integrated in frame and drink systems between arms
We did cover this, but it was sadly too long for this video. Maybe one for future. In summary, it depends on your position. They’ve found it has little to no effect for most people, providing it doesn’t force your arms out wider
Integrated systems can provide benefits at increased yaw angles, as it acts like a fairing
Thanks guys! The conversation in the video was more than enough mark 🙂
how much does a recumbent cost?
Great video more would be great
Thanks 😁
Timestamps
11:05 shoes
Wouldn't you say that the amount of time saved with shoe covers is lost putting them on/off in transition?
I understand this but I think the best part of aerodynamics gains is that you can go in the same speed but using less energy, with this argument I think that it worth
If you get them all do you really get all the watt savings? I doubt it, some how I suspect the numbers aren't linear just like wind resistance. I suspect that all the measurements were made at some base speed. This stuff is never this simple.
Of course, it’s a very complicated area. Obviously these are all savings from our baseline number. If you’re using the baseline products, then yes there could be huge savings. For most, I’d imagine it’s just small improvements here and there
I need to learn how to swim if i am ever going to try a triathlon
yes, it does help if you don't sink
My best "aero" upgrade was making myself 15 pounds narrower. Cost: zero.
Not Aero but what about latex vs bytil tubes?
They just did a video on this =P
Great video!
Thank you
@@markthrelfall3577 Love this network and all the crew!
So basically not going out naked and adjusting your position are the most logical upgrades to being aero right? :D
Fewer trips to the cafe would save me more watts by losing a few pounds (#) while saving me a few pounds (£) but make life less enjoyable. :)
I'm guessing that losing weight is the absolute best cost/watt advantage. I'm dropping 15 lbs and that's FREE.
For a lot of people who are serious about their sport or that have a build like me, that is simply not an option.
Aero frame / TT 😎
25 Watts a trisuit??? 😳
Maybe in TT suit, not so much in a tri suit...especially if going without sleeves.
800$ per watt for overpriced brand wheels - 3200$ total...Get chinese quality carbon pair from Lightbycicle, for 800$, so watt is now 150-200$... 300g is consideration for massively aerodynamic wheel, and you ride it on flat on low inclines in Triathlons always, but disc brakes who are 500g heavier and much less aero than rim brakes, give you less aero wheel, less aero frame, they are good :D
ok
Wow aero stuff 😊
2 or 3 watts savings for a disc at 40kph??? Wow that's rubbish 😂
More speed = more Watts saved from improved aero kit, but slower speed = more time saved (as a percentage)? Drag is proportional to CD * V^2. So the less able athlete has more to gain??
I’d rather go for a recumbent bicycle😂
or just go buy a planet x helmet and get a road helmet for £20. can't believe people are being ripped off £175! for something that is so cheap. Cyclists are divas!
There's an enormous brand appeal in the cycling industry, cyclists really are nitpicky about not only the type of gear they buy, but also the manufacturere of their equipment. At some point it really does turn into a plain ripoff.
Most cyclists are pussies. Chasing tech is stupid unless you're getting paid to win
$ per Watt is a pointless and quite ignorant metric.
Say gadget A saves you 1W and costs $10
Say gadget B saves you 10W and costs $1000
If you want to win the race you get B. Or both A and B.