I remember LeBron and D Wade mocking Dirk by fake coughing on camera when Dirk had the flu/sinus infection.... It was so satisfying when Dallas won that Championship...
That was my favorite NBA finals win in the post 2000 era. They deserved to get humbled big time. But I'm not a Lebron hater. I was actually rooting for him in 2016 and was happy when they pulled off that comeback.
When a LeBron team wins it's due to his greatness and when they lose suddenly it's a team game. There was never a debate as LeBron isn't even the 2nd greatest player.
I blame the NBA, when MJ retired at 98 the NBA rating also went down, they need a next " MJ ", Kobe was still developing at the time so they choose Lebron, i remember clearly when LBJ 1st entered the NBA they advertising him as a 'King' already so they dont want to see him fail, i have never seem any other player get that kind of treatment even now.
@@brandangreen1390 you tell me but i know it can't be a player who forms multiple superteams and constantly throws his teammates and organizations under the bus when he can't get the job done.
@@chucknorris2418 he never throw his team under the bus buddy kd did and lebron was on one superteam buddy yall throw that word around a little to much
@@younglove3362 no you didn't. His career low against the Pistons franchise was in 2003 where he dropped 15 points at 40 years old. You are literally making shit up.
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886you are mistaken. Neither shot by Jordan teammates was in an elimination game. Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving’s trey in game 7 in 2016 saved LeBron from being 2-8 in the finals.
@rondamccarroll1106 from 2011 to 2020 its been lebron and steph honestly i dont see lebron winning a 5th ring unless he's on a super team. Steph has a better chance then him.
@DerethAC But not the one championship he won, it was all LeBron 👍🤣🤣🤣 the other 4 finals losses was his teammates and coaches fault, and he was playing the greatest teams ever 😁😁😁😁
If u bring a championship trophy 🏆 to Cleveland that’s better than 6 rings anywhere else WHY????? because winning in a small market is 3x harder than a big market and that’s facts….
@@Adaptation49.42 that’s fact bro what’s the last NBA small market to win 🏆 go ahead I’ll wait… it would be like the Bobcats winning a ring… the fact of the matter is y’all LBJ haters gots to stop.. you come back from a 3-1 deficit on a 73 win team is 🐐 STATUS….. it will never happen again so did into any stat line or any other BS y’all can muster up it doesn’t equate to what the Cavs did in ‘16
I wish you mentioned LeBron & Wade mocking Dirk being sick by coughing. Not only did LeBron choke but he couldn't even talkshit and back it up. "Not 5, not 6, not 7..."
And remember 9 years of 82 games😮how you gonna be the goat with 1 season with 82 games and 1 scoring title and only 4 championship in 20 years 😮and the most TO’s in NBA history 😂
Jordan: - Never lost while the HEAVY favorite to win - Never got ABUSED and outplayed by ANY other player for a whole series - Never had to be PUSHED into the correct defensive position - Was never GIVEN an MVP over another player who clearly deserved it more...nor a ROY award - Truly only played 12 years and somehow: 6 rings, 6FMVP, 5 RSMVP, 10 scoring titles, 3x steals leader, 9x all defensive team, 2x dunk champ, REAL (not given) ROY, and 3x All Star MVP (back when they PLAYED DEFENSE in the all star game) Bron: - Of the 5 biggest upsets in NBA FINALS history, Lebron was on the losing side of THREE of those - Couldn't stop a near retired Jason Terry, and couldnt score AGAINST a 5'9" JJ Barea - Rookie teammates had to push him into defensive position SEVERAL times, because he slacked off so frequently, this led to those GOOD young players, being traded off the team the following year lol - Was GIFTED the ROY over Melo, who brought HIS team (both teams had the same record the previous year) to the playoffs, and the stats were relatively the same - Was GIFTED an MVP over Wade in 2009, when Wade did something which had never been done in the NBA before AND led the league in scoring that year. And yes...Lebron likely knew it as well, as the following year he decided to team up with Wade lol. - Despite team hopping and demanding more all stars and future hall of famers and CURRENT top 75ers on his teams, and despite playing TWENTY YEARS, he STILL has not amassed more accolades than a man who played 12 years. Despite being coined as one of the most athletic players to ever play the game, he is STILL worse at REBOUNDING than a man at his position who was notoriously non athletic and who likely couldnt jump up a curb...Larry Bird....because rebounding and defense takes HEART
“The 5 biggest upsets in NBA Finals history, Lebron was on the losing side of THREE of those” Quite possibly the biggest lie I’ve ever read in my life. Lebron has only lost in the finals as a favourite ONCE, in 2011. That’s it. Making up garbage doesn’t help your case. “Was GIFTED an MVP over Wade in 2009” Another lie. Not only did Lebron deserve the MVP, it should’ve been UNANIMOUS. It wasn’t even close. I also see you made no mention of Jordan getting gifted the MVP over Malone in 98. Your entire comment is just filled with media propaganda and nothing actually intelligent. It’s clear you’ve just repeated what you’ve heard on TV or on Lebron hate channels like a sheep. Apply some critical thinking please.
Absolutely love this summary! I would add one important according to me fact related to the goat debate: MJ evolved as a player by elevating parts of his game he acknowledged as weakness while Lebron throughout his 20+ years carier could not evolve as at least a decent shooter
Worst playoff loss in point differential of all-time vs Spurs in 2014...2 of the worst ratings in the finals as well, All-time Turnover leader, and quickly approaching the All-time bricks record...also the greatest coach killer...also had over 120 players traded...
But Jordan lost 100% of the time when not playing up under Scottie’s Bulls. 100%. Name me 1 season Jordan won a ring when not with Scotties Bulls. You got plenty to research as he was in the league 15 years research.
James isn't even goat over Kobe. I've watched a few videos in the last few days that show that. Jordan also won a championship in college not to mention, 2 gold medals for the USA. The guy is simply a winner... 🐐
Never loses. Jordan either wins finals or he gets swept in the first round or he repeatedly prevented from making the conference finals. At 6/0 in a 15 year career, that’s a whole lot of not even qualifying for the finals which equals a whole lot of losing.
While 2011 Finals was an embarrassment for LeBron, I always think that 2014 Finals was a total annihilation by the Spurs, with LeBron's lack of leadership to get the Heat playing a perfect team ball to win the championship because the Spurs were the ones showing it, especially in the clincher. LeBron and the Heat were outplayed and demoralized and blown off in a record setting point differential in a series.
Bingo!!! 2014 finals was more of a choke job. He was completely locked up by kawhi. He boggled down his own team's offense by holding the ball too long and going nowhere. Then proceed to stat pad when the game was out of reach to shift the blame to his teamates.
A "ranDu"m thawt 🤔... This comment made me think about that series vs the year b4. The Spurs put that 07 clinic in motion and won 5 - 1 and the Heat players were carrying LBJ out. The Heat fizzled out. I guess when the road signs say "Don't mess with Texas", even our heat takes it personal when challenged by another heat... 😂😂😂😂
Great point with the points differential. That’s always been a big indicator of LeBron not even deserving to be in the “goat” discussion… look at the number of times he gets absolutely blown out by 20, 30, or 40 or more points (it’s a bunch). Then look how many times that has happened to MJ… like maybe 8-ish losses by 20, 2 or 3 by 30, and none by 40? I looked it up once upon a time, but I’m a little fuzzy on the numbers now. Even if they were having a bad night, MJ wouldn’t quit. He’d make it a game. If they could pull within 8 or 10 points with 2 or 3 minutes left, you expected them to win the game. When it gets tough, LeBron looks for a reason to quit, and he will. He’ll even just walk off the court and take himself out of games with 4 or 5 minutes left if his team is down double-digits. How anybody thinks that man is the “goat” is a mystery paired with a conundrum wrapped in an enigma. Just makes no damn sense.
2014 loss was equally embarrassing if not more than 2011. Lebron set NBA final record in losing margin per game after Spurs wiped the floor with him. Duncan and Ginobili were way outta their prime by 2014.
People also forget D Wade mentioning that Bron didn’t want to take over the team and Wade am had to tell him it’s ok to be dominant. So essentially Bron went to the Heat to willingly be a #2 option and ended up being a #3 😂. But he’s the Goat 😂
I take it more as LeBron trying to play the role of a true PG. During that series it looked to me like James was trying to play more like Jason Kidd, and as a result he was basically canceled out by Kidd.
Context is key not dismissing mj but come on that lakers team was not that good and they were in a weak west that Dallas team would wipe that lakers team
Wade was cleary the BETTER player on those Heat teams. What made that unclear was Wade's injuries catching up with him sooner than later. Lebron is great, one of the top 10 of all time, arguably top 5 for most, however on that Heat team when he played with Bosh and Wade, it was clear Wade was the best player. Wade knew to win with Lebron he had to step back and give Lebron that control. It cost them a couple of chips, and would have costed them a third chip if wasn’t for the unbelievable heroics of Ray Allen in the clutch. Long story short, MJ is the goat, and there's no one close, but we already knew this. Salute 🫡
Dwade step back so LeBron could be better, LeBron didn't know how to be effective off ball. Dwade was yelling at him "to shoot the ball mfer" in those finals. 2011 was a turning point for LeBron. In order for LeBron to be capable of winning he needs the whole organization in support of him + plus a couple of Hall of Fame teammates. Lebron cost Dwade a ring and wasted one of his last prime years and in 2014 when Dwade was dealing with his injuries in those finals, LeBron left him
Or run from the moment and let everybody on his media flunky squad say he was "making the right play." That's fine, but it just shows you he's not at MJ's level.
Michael Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen 84-85 38-44..First round exit 85-86. 30-52..First round exit 86-87. 40-42...First round exit 01-02. 37-45..out of playoffs 02-03. 37-45..out of playoffs LeBron james carried an absolutely horrific 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team to the nba finals In the modern NBA era (post 1960) only nine NBA top 75 players have won a championship without another top 75 player as a teammate Rick Barry (1975) Bill Walton (1977) Hakeem Olajuwon (1994) Tim Duncan (2005) (2007) Kobe Bryant (2009) (2010) Steph Curry (2015) (2022) LeBron james (2016) Kawhi Leonard (2019) Giannis Antetokounmpo (2021) As you can see, LeBron James is on the list and Michael Jordan isnt Lebron james has won 17 playoff series, without an nba top 75 teammate. Michael Jordan won ZERO In the year before Michael Jordan and LeBron James joined their team and the year after they left their team, their records were 83-84 bulls 27-55 84-85 bulls. 38-44 92-93 bulls 57-25 93-94 bulls 55-27 98-99 bulls 13-37 without Scottie Pippen 00-01 wizards 19-63 01-02 wizards. 37-45 02-03 wizards 37-45 03-04 wizards 25-57 02-03 cavaliers 17-65 03-04 cavaliers 35-47 09-10 cavaliers 61-21 10-11 cavaliers 19-63 09-10 heat. 47-35 10-11 heat 58-24 14-15 heat 37-45 2013-14 cavaliers 33-49 2014-15 cavaliers 53-29 2017- 18 cavaliers 50-32 2018-19 cavaliers 19-63 2017-18 lakers. 35-47 2018-19 lakers were 20-14 when LeBron James got injured on Christmas day. As you can see When LeBron James joins a team, the team improves more than Michael Jordan and when LeBron James leaves a team, the team always goes into the tank. Michael Jordan, excluding the 94-97 seasons, when the NBA moved the three point line to 22 feet, was a career 28% three point shooter. LeBron James is a career 34% three point shooter Michael Jordan was a great defensive player, in an Era where you could handcheck. Playing defense is much easier when you can handcheck. For nearly 6'9 250 LeBron James' entire career he wasn't afforded the opportunity to handcheck. THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR..LEBRON JAMES IS THE GOAT!!!!! I have added a Postscript So many have replied, that LeBron james didn't make the playoffs his first two years and Jordan did. What they fail to say is, in 1985, 16 of 23 teams made the playoffs. In 2004, 16 of 29 teams made the playoffs. It was MUCH EASIER Making the playoffs in 1985. Also, I don't know, possibly, maybe, Jordan had a HUGE ADVANTAGE considering he played three years of college basketball and LeBron James was 19 years old, and straight out of high school
Folks often think the goat “debate” ended after LBJ got outscored by 4 players in 2011, but truth is there was never a debate. Plus after 2007 finals he blew his chance of getting ahead of MJ anyways. Then you have to factor in how LBJ won as opposed to how MJ did. One had to seek out established stars to win easy, the other lost then got help and lost again until eventually winning with the same core. Never formed a superteam or colluded with other stars, was never a second option or sharing the scoring the load. These are just some of the instances on why MJ is by far the goat. You include his accomplishments, his clutchness all throughout the playoffs especially finals, the stats, the advanced stats, rings etc it just makes it impossible for anyone to dethrone that.
@@MikeHawk-yg3gk Because LeBron Lames like you need an education. You reach, we teach. We Jordan Truthers love Basketball Like Mike and think all Basketball fans should know what the real GOAT means. You can either learn and better yourself or remain an ignorant trolling fool who doesn't know any better.
Thing is, LeCon is too. No player has ever had the combination of his size, strength, skill and athleticism.....but mentally he's a diva, coward and a frontrunner. His legacy is garbage. He could've been the best ever.
@@sladewilson6924The skill is debatable. He is head down barreling to the rim. A wide open dunk or fall away 3 pointer. No post game, no 15’ jump shot, no skill moves to get his shot. He doesn’t have the move that McGrady put on Kobe in the beginning of the video. His defense of chasing down to block can be looked at two ways. Great play but it means he was out of position or late getting back to defend.
@@johnnyblaze9206 He had skills. IMO he hasn't worked on them to keep them. He's relied on his athleticism and the refs bailing him out entirely too much. But there's no debate at all that he could've been the best ever. His laziness and lack of heart is what has kept him from achieving his potential.
Yeah, I'll never get why so many people want a guy that choked and got swept twice in the finals, stacks the deck for easy winning and flops regularly as the goat of our great sport. Never.
@brandangreen1390 How am I hating? I didn't lie on James with anything I said. I just listed facts about him you can't say about MJ. So hypotheticals won't change anything.
@brandangreen1390 Nothing to do with hate, Lebron isn't a true competitor. He didn't want to beat the best to be the best. He took the sucker's way out and deserves zero respect from anyone that's an athlete.
@@True-Believer616 im saying its a fact lebron faced two dynasties and arguably the grestest team all time he would get smoked by the 2017 warriors and besides 2011 if u put jordan in lebron shoes he wouldn’t do much better either
I think more appropriately- if you join a new team in your prime, let alone hold an hour long tv special to announce it, and you’re not the best player on your new team that first year- you’re out of the Goat convo. Considering I do have Kobe in the goat convo if not the goat himself, having three rings by 22 isn’t the same as being a sidekick
@@Hidalgoes bro he was playing along side the most dominant player ever in the modern nba wat u talking about kobe aint on jordan level bro no one in the goat debate with him
Lebron was a baby and international competition was a million times better in the 2000s than the 80s or 90s. Yall love just writing stuff with zero context. Jordan played in a way less complex era. Lebron played in an era where the game was revolutionized several times, players were much more skilled and potent overall plus faced two dynasty teams in the finals a total of 7 times and still has the second most finals mvps of all time. I mean idk how yall wanna ignore that. The only thing you guys got is 2011 but that doesn't erase everything else he's done cuz he's done things not even Jordan could do.
@@cyberbron2077 Yet Kobe joined the olympic team in 08 (after lebron and his posse's 04 and 06 disasters) and the US blew all that amazing "international competition" off the map. Stop it.
@@SuperSonic_868 you do realize lebron wasn't the leader on those 04 or 06 teams right. The 2008 team had actual veterans and the younger guys finally had some years in the league to get better so stop all that bs. In Jordan's time all they did was group the best players because they knew they'd smoke them anyways. In the 2000s they needed to actually develop and learn to play as a team to beat European teams because the Europeans were actually starting to catch up. If you want evidence of that, go look at the top nba players today, most of them aren't even American so stop all that. Jordan's era didn't have any real international competition, Jordan was the one who inspired kids from international to take basketball seriously and actually pursue it and we saw the byproduct of that in the 2000s and on. Stop being hard headed. Yall really tryna get at lebron for playing better competition. That makes no sense. The guy who plays in a much tougher era in terms of international competition and basketball period and still stood amongst the rest is somehow worse to you.
Bronsexuals will still argue excuses that Jordan didn't play the warriors several times and that he played with plumbers and non athletes often confusing the 90's era with Bill Russell's era. You may be able to convert some but most of them will never ever get it because they weren't around to see Jordan play themselves and that's extremely unfortunate for them.
It's true though. None of the teams mj faced were as good as the spurs or warriors and lebron faced them 7 times in the finals. Still got 4 finals mvps too so idk what yall pressed about. He has his case for being the goat. One bad finals performance doesn't erase what he's done. No player has led a finals in all categories for both teams, and he did that against a 73 win team. He's also the only player inthe modern era to win 4 mvps in 5 years. Factor in his finals competition and the fact that he's still second all time in finals mvps. I mean idk how you guys can act like it's crazy to have Bron as the goat. He played in a way more complex era defensively and offensively and played with much more skilled shooters and players overall and he still stood head and shoulders above the rest. Respect to Jordan he got his right to be the goat but lebron does too.
@@cyberbron2077 thank u people dont get it and crap on james so much i hate it lebron has never had the luxury of a stable organization like the Celtics lakers and chicago thats a fact and the competition in the finals aint even close
@@cyberbron2077 Had Bron played against those plumbers he would have been out of the league by season 10 limping away given how soft he is by playing against fortnite players and podcasters. Heavens forbid he played against the Bad Boys when there are no refs to call his flops.
@@pyotrbagration2438 you old heads regurgitate the same sh*t over and over again. It's hilarious honestly. Yall think a 6'9 260 pound man would have trouble in an era that would allow him to be more physical. Lebron only had trouble with defenses that played zone and sagged off him on the perimeter in his career and that was early on. If you think the simple man to man and double team defense of the 80s and 90s with players much smaller than today's players would have affected him then you're just delusional but I respect your opinion even though it shows you clearly lack basketball knowledge.
The goat doesn't get outplayed by a bench player who's the Sixth Man of the Year. The goat does not get swept not in just the finals but the playoffs. The goat doesn't leave the team he's on to join a super team just to win a championship because he can't cut it.
@@Says_methat flopping shit is so wild to me. I've seen his Stans talk about Jordan getting calls but it's crickets when you bring up this damn dude and his flopping. One time this asshole actually flopped in midair. Like Holy shit imagine possibly hurting yourself because of flailing your limbs about to get calls instead of trying to brace for a bump.
Yeah lets not talk about the wizards...... at 38 years old lebron averages better stats at literally the same amount of time played as mj at 38. Hes actually averaging better points rebounds an assists than mj did in his last year with the bulls on 4 less minutes on the court. Calm yourself.🎉
An another thing this nut case stuff out here acting blind and forgetting who all played for the bulls cause it wasn't just jordan on the court doing it all. That team needed pippen an when it came to the last 3 the needed rodman for rebound insurance.
Oh brother he's ducking competition....he needs help so he ran to his all-star friends.... Meanwhile the Fool From Akron is just great. When he does the same shit he's teaching the other all-stars how to play and win 😂
The 10 15 years before that Lebron was doing it by hisself. Jordan never carried no team to the finals he got bumped first round without Scottie and Rodman. Basketball is a team sport anyway. All u guys just hate cause u know it the truth even the nba players say it is Lebron is more consistent, a better team mate, a better scorer (all time leading) better playmaker (way better. ) best driver of the basketball we will ever see. And we was going up against the spurs , Tim Duncan, parker, ginobli, kawhi Leonard, and who did Lebron have to help him on his team??? Jordan never did what u guys expect Lebron to do. But the critizise Lebron for not doing what Jordan couldn’t even do. Jordan had a great coach and a great front office. They created a great team around Jordan. Like I said the bulls were the super team of the 90s u act like Jordan never played with all time greats. Scottie, Rodman defensively. Steve Kerr highest 3 point percentage of all time look it up. U gonna tell me that’s not a big three?? Jordan Scottie and Rodman? That’s the same as James wade and Bosh
@@cappy2282 the 10-15 before that Lebron had no help rookie coaches bad front offices. Jordan never made it past The first round without help geeeeesh!!! Stop criticizing Lebron for what u wouldn’t expect out of Jordan or never even did. Jordan had a lot of help and all time great coach. U guys don’t know shit if ur not giving Lebron props for what he has done in the nba. He will be the greatest of ALL TIME when it’s all said and done
I'm not even a LeBron hater or a Jordan fan. But I started watching NBA basketball in the mid 80s. And I have to say, it is clear as day that lebron is the most delusionally hyped up player I have ever seen in any sport my whole life.
Funny thing is that Lebron called himself the Goat. Even funnier is that he said it knowing that he choked in the Finals. No shame in losing, but not showing up is another story.
Another thing to note. Is not only has Lebron choked. But he also quit in the 2018 finals. I know some people will say what was the point as the GS were "unbeatable" but games 1 and 3 were very winnable. In game 3 he ran from KD and we all saw him just throw in the towel in game 4. That's goat activity?
Bulls vs Celtics, Jordan scored over 60, never quit on his team, he wouldn't quit even in a regular season match, he'd take it to double overtime just to get the win.
@@user-pw2ro7gt4r 2018 Bron is the most complete player. After that playoff run you could visibly see'd he'd slow down. Why destroy your body for a win that you will not get? He wants to extend his career and play with his son. Ever since he pushed himself in the 2018 run he's been piling injuries and gotten slower despite always being the healthiest, most athletic player in the League.
@@TrueGuardify 5 years ago? Goat debate is done, I dunno why anyone bothers to even bring up LeBron, he wasn't even the greatest on his own teams much less all time.
@@TrueGuardify Can't be the best ever if you condoning him quitting to preserve his body. Plus he could have gotten those 2 wins. He just gave up and quit.
Not just 2011, 2007 Finals, 2008 1-6 vs Celtics, 2010 vs Celtics 4-6, 2011 obviously, 2013 Game 1-5 NBA Finals (first three games averaged 17/12/7 on 39/23/83), 2014 Finals stat-padded got his numbers in garbage time, 2016 Game 1-4, 2021 vs Suns, and 2023 vs Nuggets minus Game 4. Lebron is one of the greatest post-season players of all time but he's had way more meltdowns in post-season when you think about it but LeMedia won't tell you. Thats why I can never put LeBron above Jordan because Michael Jordan never chocked in the post-season. Along with MJ is just better both sides of the ball period end of discussion.
88 Pistons dude was carrying bulls alone 86 Celtics how in the world is he gonna beat one of the very best teams assembled in the 80s?!? 87 Celtics not as same as last year but they're still a formidable team with multiple hofers while MJ was the sole superstar 89 Piston The Jordan Rules. I guarantee you any player being subjected to that much pummeling will not be able withstand that much punishment no matter how unflappable you are 95 Magic this might just be the only legitimate choke on your list. He was rusty having just returned after not playing for more than a year. But a choke is still a choke as hard as it is to admit. He came back better and far more determined the next year though(72-10 season and 3peat chips).
@@imfinishedgrinding638 So you can excuse Jordan for carrying the Bulls but not Lebron for carrying the Cavs? That would remove 07 Finals and 08 Celtics. And notice how I said Game 3 vs the 86 Celtics. The game that Jordan had 19 points after dropping 63 the game before and getting outscored by John Paxson and Dave Corzine. 87 Celtics were all winnable games just like how Jordan fans say the 07 Spurs were. Specifically Game 3 where Jordan stunk it up in the 4th, losing by 11, despite being up 5 entering the 4th. I thought Jordan was so mentally tough and had killer instinct? Why did the 89 Pistons get to him? And that wasn’t a case of Jordan rules. He simply choked in the last 3 games. I understand these are all cherry picked moments but that’s exactly what OP did, cherry pick random games he played bad, even if they ended up winning the series.
@@gggyy7104 Much appreciated for the info. Jordan has his fair share of bad games. Everyone does. 2011 is still a huge blemish to Lebron's legacy but no one has any right to critique Lebron for losing in 07 when he was solo carrying the cavs and facing the Warriors that had KD. The only thing I disagree with is 1989. The Jordan rules finally got to him physically as he didn't have enough bulk to withstand it. The following year he worked on it and he swept the Pistons... or maybe Grant and Pippen just developed enough by that time that this trio peaked at the right time.
Finally, someone says what I've been saying for years. Michael, Jordan never lost the series he was supposed to win. LeBron did it multiple times. Just that fact the goat conversation is over.
I wonder if he'd be favoured to win a series against a 73-9 team that adds another top 5 player? Those Warriors and Spurs teams were light years better than anyone Jordan faced.
@@raymundfernandez4172 lmao three first team all defence against players that drove hard to the paint with their head down.. guards dribbled with their back turned to the backboard lmao they didnt even know what a off the dribble 3 is.. aint no way u beat that team with defense lmao u have to hit so many 3s to even have a chance.. they swept or 4-1'd for 3 seasons straight for a reason.. yall oldies try to keep living in the past.
It's not just 11, he was awful in his first finals sweep too, but he's excused for his age, yet given all the credit in the world for getting there against crummy Leastern Conference. He would have been swept in the first round if he was out west.
I’ve always made this same point myself. If you wanna hype him up for “carrying” that team to the finals we also gotta hold him accountable for how horrible he was in that series. He averaged 22 on 35% which is nasty work. The irony of him playing bad is the Cavs were capable of winning every game that series despite Lebron’s poor play. If Lebron plays average that series the Cavs would of had a chance to win it all..
yep, he was awful in '07 series where if he could shoot or sccore efficiently they win the championship. the real truth is it took Lebron about 10-11 years in the NBA to become a polished player. his real peak was 2013 to 2018.
@@_M.... Spurs baited him to shoot almost every Finals series they matched up with Bron, but none was as embarrassing as 07. That was disrespectful and Bron laid an egg being left completely open. Even if you want to give him a pass for his age, it's still an awful showing by someone we're supposed to believe is this generations goat. He's got way too many embarrassing blemishes on that resume and too many asterisks on his rings due to team ups and a Disney bubble
@@HailKingCeezer The Spurs baited him to shoot? Is that why he was getting triple and quadrupled teamed up the court? Saying the bubble ring was an asterisk also just completely proves you have no idea what you’re talking about.
@@turbie5510 Dream Team it was that 1992 squad; but Lebronze not beeing able to win a Internacional competition, shows he is not that good, he was created, and propelled by the League to be the GOAT, but his overall skills, combined with his basketball IQ, werent enough, and he knows it, thats why he joins and creates superteams (in USA squad they had to bring Kobe and Kd so Lebronze could win an International tittle, and not look like a looser anymore, cause till then a Looser not being able to win for USA was what he was), and thats how he wins and creates his phony legacy, bringing great players to his team to do the job for him, so thats why he's not my choice for Top 5 all Time. Players like M. Jordan, Magic, K. Jabbar, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, just to name a few on my opinion were better, and none of them had the League in their pocket, like this fake king had from day 1 in Nba.
When LBJ was dominated in the finals by Jason Terry he forfeited all rights to ever be the goat! He was held to like 16 points a game from a 29 ppg regular season! Jason Terry tore his a$$ up!
@@TheReBrandShow There is a difference in playing your ass off and losing to a better team like Jordan did early in his career and being the better team and getting your heart pulled out of your chest and folding like a cheap tent like LBJ did.
Lebron whole career is based on spurts not consistency his fans only bring up a certain playoff or finals series MJ was dominating ten years in scoring and winning championships no other players has achieved more in less time stop comparing
His fans only use false narratives they heard from Shannon/Nick and then use hypotheticals against MJ. All they really have is longevity stats and even then it’s just that...longevity stats, which doesn’t prove a player is better than the other.
I remember them clowning KD when he lost to The Bucks in 7 his first year in the east. When LeBron made all those Finals in that pathetic conference there was nobody near the same level as the Bucks. And also crickets when you mentioned him missing the playoffs when he went to the West his first year 😂
@@chucknorris2418would you be willing to name the top 100 players in 1995. I’ll list the top 100 players today so we can properly compare the two eras. I got a hunch that One of them is talented all the way through and the other one is janitors past the top 20
@@Blackjeezus850 What do you consider failure? For me losing when you are the underdog isn't failure. MJ never once lose a series that he wasn't underdog, that's perfection, being 24-0.
Some important context for the 2011 series..LeBron said "I am taking my talents to south Beach " and first opportunity to show those talents on the biggest stage he chokes
So tired about hearing 2011 only series he choked!!wake up 2007 finals and playoff run he was not that gd!!finals he was awful 35% 6 turnovers per game!!this the finals!!2008 vs celtics he shoots 36% for the series again people we talking entire series not just 1 game!!36% in a 7 game series is crazy!!2010 vs celtics he choked last 3 games shooting 32% and 2015 finals he built a whole community of bricks!!shot 39% in series and probably had the most all time misses in a finals series as he had a bunch of awful shooting nights..This guy has had the most help and most playoff collapses in NBA history!!
I Kno my man we jus try 2 not bash him 2 hard lol he's good sure but he dnt need 2 b mentioned with real goats jus cuz sum dumb stats that doesn't show all his chances and failures. The real fans kno what's up tho I got faith. my spurs laid n2 him those finals
@@relicdad88thank god for people like you!!But thats the thing bro he bring it on himself..Calling yaself the goat and having ya wife do it at the espys and man we can write a book on clown moves but my bad bro i just really get annoyed at how anybody with a brain can do research/homework and not see jordan the goat lmao!!Im only 29 and know this!!
Here's this "debate" in a nutshell. Jordan was better offensively, SIGNIFICANTLY better defensively and also the greatest closer ever as well as being better in the playoffs. What the hell else is there? The only legitimate argument anybody could ever possibly make for Lebron being better at an actual basketball skill than Jordan would be assists and rebounds. Lebron has averaged 2 more assists per game and 1 more rebound. That's it. Jordan is far superior than Lebron at literally everything else.
@joeldriver-sp2rg Jordan is a better rebounder because he still has more offensive rebs than Lebron even though Lebron played almost 400 games more than Jordan. Jordan's passing skills are underrated as well
@@andrewmauney3082 There's not any question among those knowledgeable about basketball that Jordan isn't vastly superior on defense. It's not even close and no, Lebron can't guard all 5 positions. He most certainly wouldn't be able to guard power forwards and centers and he's not quick enough to guard point guards.
@@christiansoldier77 Lebron pretty much plays point guard so he's naturally going to get more assists. For his position Jordan is a better rebounder than Lebron is as a small forward.
Another great video! They keep getting mad at Skip when he keeps reminding people of that series! It’s one of the few things that I agree with him on 100%! It’s in the books you can’t just gloss over that series. It is so important in the Michael Jordan and LeBron James debate.
2013- best version of james 2014-team inferior 2017-averaged a triple double against best team of all time 2018-best version of him 2007-underperformed wat u talking about
@@brandangreen1390 lol. 2013 Allen saved him. 2014 he had 2 of the top 10 players in his own team vs an spurs big 3 who are all past their prime. Meaningless stats. Russ averages a triple double. 😂. By your logic russ is the goat.
@@brandangreen1390 bullshit. Bosh was diagnosed with a life threatening medical condition and wade still avg 25ppg on "bad knees" and had the better efficiency.
Michael Jordan as Caesar (an unrelenting force); Lebron James as Pompeius Magnus (the man whose longevity gave him godly accolades); Kobe Bryant is Octavian Caesar (the man who wants to be his uncle Caesar); Caesar defeated Pompey, while Octavian became emperor. Was Kobe the GOAT then? No. Octavian carried his uncle's name for a reason, while any mention of Kobe usually ends up with MJ. Lebron on the other hand is an argument for statistical niceties because of how long he's playing.
I can’t stand that Marc Cuben didn’t keep that Mavs team together… He should have given them the chance to repeat… and given all of us a chance to see Miami play them again
The first game of the next season was a rematch if I remember correctly. It was a slaughter because as you mentioned this asshole let it all go to hell. Talk about wasting the 2nd half of a man's career.
What kills me about Lebron fans they’ll say Jordan didn’t win nothing Scottie bt then will give lebron a pass for getting smashed by the spurs in 2007. U give one credit for losing with no help. Bt then crucify another for the same thing
20 years from now, the next big hype nba newcomer will still be compared to Jordan in regards to who is the goat. It happens with every generational talent since Jordan. No one 20 years from now will be saying if XX new player will dethrone lebron as the goat.
One of the most impressive stats about Jordan and the Bulls is they never lost more than 2 games in a row from 90 to 98 in the seasons Jordan played. That statistic deserves more recognition.
Lebron sabotaged Wade's FMVP run. Just like he ducked Kobe the times that he could've faced him (Orlando and Boston were winnable), because he knew that if he lost to Kobe, the Jordan comparisons would stop.
Great point. That Boston series was tied 2-2 and in game 5 the Cavs were only down 6 at half. They end up losing by 32. That game was in Cleveland and Lebron shot 3-14 and had 15 pts.
@@roboninja3194 And before you can say 2010-2011 Season, By then, the Heatles were created. It's funny because Stern blocked the Lakers from Acquiring Chris Paul and in the process, ruining the Laker's team chemistry by demoralizing Pau and Odom, but he didn't bat an eye over Lebron, Wade and Bosh colluding.
I hate how some people will say LeBron struggled bc of Dallas superb defense but really LeBron played awful. He shouldlve had his way with Dallas in that series with his size and strength. I was quite surprised with the fact he struggled for 3 straight games
He cant handle the pressure, like wilt, who can do so good during regular season but fail to show up in the playoff season. Also MJ " trusted " his teammate, LBJ 'rely' on his teammate.
It's a combination of LeBron not being true GOAT material, but also the Dallas defense was superb. The Mavericks also won both games against the Heat during the regular season and LeBron only averaged 21ppg on 31% shooting in those games. Both teams had a nearly identical regular season record, and both teams were 12-3 in the playoffs heading into the Finals. Kidd and Marion are about as good of a duo as you could ask for to defend James and Wade. Then a future DPOY Chandler in the middle, that's a stout defensive trio.
Why is this still a debate? We know Klutch Sports is paying media members to keep this going. They've brainwashed fans into believing a guy with a 4-6 finals record and 0-7 on game winning shots in the finals is better than 6-0 and 5-2 finals records from players that hit multiple game winning shots in the finals. Was Jordan swept in the finals, was Kobe? No. Lebron has been swept twice in the finals. Kobe and Jordan faced more 50/60 win teams in the playoffs and have a better record vs 50/60 win teams in the playoffs than Lebron does. The goat does not shoot 37% on shots outside of 3 feet for his career. The goat doesn't have the most turnovers in NBA history and 2nd most missed shots in NBA history. The goat doesn't his ass kicked in the Finals by a 6th man. The goat doesn't go around calling himself the goat while tearing down past players. The goat doesn't hop around the league stacking super team. The goat doesn't have a teammate shove him to play defense. Lebron fans are zombies who believe whatever the Klutch Sports media members on ESPN and FS1 tells them.
Terry Cummings outscored rookie Jordan by 1 point in their playoff series. Aside from that, NO ONE scored more than Jordan, from any team, in any series... including his own team....ever....in his career 👀
@@veldc8730 You're right. It's also defense. 10 scoring titles 9 All-Defensive 1st Teams 1 Defensive Player of the Year 3 time steals leader Basketball is score, and stop the opponent from scoring Welcome to 6-0, 6 Finals MVPs Little guy
The other thing is it isn’t so much that he didn’t score it’s that he missed the opportunity that he did have to score. There are players that in short spurts in critical moments shoot for example 75% and say 100% from the line. They do it when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. A good example of a player that can do that is joker and MJ do it and many others have been able to do it.
MJ took the previously down bad Bulls, and lead them to the championship title 6 times. Lebron has consistently failed to win in the finals (or often even make it there) with super team after super team. The only reason this is a debate is because Lebron is gonna play till he’s 65 and his numbers are untouchable. He doesn’t realize everyone is gonna look back and say, “yeah his career numbers are better than everyone else’s, but he took 3 NBA careers to get there so of course his career numbers are better.” Easy to play for that many seasons when you don’t play 1/3 of the games, and when your in you only play 1/2.
Hope people see the difference between one of Lebron's #2's and MJ's #2. The drop off from MJ '#1' to Scottie '#2' is way bigger than any of the other all-time or legendary '#1' and the '#2' they won rings with.
*2011 ended the GOAT debate for good* - you can never recover from something like that. Biggest stage and outplayed & outscored by an opposing team bench player
Lebron's 8 straight Finals is often brought up as his goat case. But I find Kobe's 7 in 10 years in the insanely stacked West more impressive. The only three years he didnt make it was when his teammates were undeniably utter garbage. Of course MJ's 6-0 trumps both of these.
Lebron is the only legend that gets heat for not beating that mavs team. Kobe got swept. Hearing nothing of it. KD, Westbrook, and Harden got smashed by that team. Silence. It’s only bron.
@@m.davinci9285 what happened to Kobe in 04? Or what about 07 when he quit on his team after blowing a 3-1 lead. He quit in a game 7. And Jordan can get smoked by the pistons and Celtics before he breaks through, but bron can’t lose toy magic?
I told everyone back then that D Wade was a better player, and most definitely defensively. LeBron should have never made any All-D team. D Wade average more blocks as a guard than LeBron as a forward and we won't talk about steals. LeBron was a better distributor. That's it! Meanwhile, Mike was a blocking machine and is on the all-time steals list. He was like one or two when he retired the second time. The debate should be Wilt and Mike. That's it.
They only compare his playing style or his " mamba mentally" to jordan but according to them kobe didn't quit or choke at all during his career but we know that's not true but he's nothing like Jordan at all
Only player in NBA history that has any argument at all to be the GOAT instead of Jordan, is Chamberlain. LeBum isn't even in my all-time top 10. He's a cheating, manipulative, flopping crybaby.
From his first season onwards Jordan was simply the scariest player on the court whether he was playing offense or defense. LeChoke has NEVER generated that intangible aura of fear.
Спорт
I remember LeBron and D Wade mocking Dirk by fake coughing on camera when Dirk had the flu/sinus infection.... It was so satisfying when Dallas won that Championship...
They weren't mocking him...
They were just rehearsing...
Rehearsing the "CHOKE"...
@@requiempurge530😅
That was my favorite NBA finals win in the post 2000 era.
They deserved to get humbled big time.
But I'm not a Lebron hater. I was actually rooting for him in 2016 and was happy when they pulled off that comeback.
@@requiempurge530nice 😂
@theaveragepinoydad4102 same. They got their just due
When a LeBron team wins it's due to his greatness and when they lose suddenly it's a team game. There was never a debate as LeBron isn't even the 2nd greatest player.
I blame the NBA, when MJ retired at 98 the NBA rating also went down, they need a next " MJ ", Kobe was still developing at the time so they choose Lebron, i remember clearly when LBJ 1st entered the NBA they advertising him as a 'King' already so they dont want to see him fail, i have never seem any other player get that kind of treatment even now.
Who is then
I don't know if he is a top twenty.
@@brandangreen1390 you tell me but i know it can't be a player who forms multiple superteams and constantly throws his teammates and organizations under the bus when he can't get the job done.
@@chucknorris2418 he never throw his team under the bus buddy kd did and lebron was on one superteam buddy yall throw that word around a little to much
Not only has Michael Jordan ever scored below 10 points in the playoffs. He never scored below 15. And in the finals he never scored below 22 😂
Ouch..
Seen Jordan score 8 points against the Pistons once
@younglove3362 not in the play-offs.
@@younglove3362 no you didn't. His career low against the Pistons franchise was in 2003 where he dropped 15 points at 40 years old. You are literally making shit up.
Didn’t 5’3 muggsy make the nba in that era tho
Ray Allen saved Lebron’s legacy and from being 3-7 in the Finals
And Wade saved LeBroom from going 2-8. And Irving saved him from going 1-9.
@@ratofnihmexactly
Paxson and Kerr save MI Legacy
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886you are mistaken. Neither shot by Jordan teammates was in an elimination game. Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving’s trey in game 7 in 2016 saved LeBron from being 2-8 in the finals.
@@ratofnihmbro you are killing those Bronstitutes 😅
This the type stuff ESPN don’t talk about. It’s hidden in their archives
Yea Youre right they hid Jordan getting his @$$ handed to him by Orlando Magic in 95 in the archives too
No matter how you look at 6-0 is better than 4-6 with being swept 3 times
LeBron James record in the Final was 4 of 11 and the Golden State Warriors stop him 3 three times
@@rondamccarroll1106cry more about lebron making a super team for 7 years straight and only winning 3 times lol
@rondamccarroll1106 from 2011 to 2020 its been lebron and steph honestly i dont see lebron winning a 5th ring unless he's on a super team. Steph has a better chance then him.
6-0 playing plumbers
4-6 playing gods
Aneb
Don't forget his time in Cleveland in 11 seasons where he won one championship lost four finals and got swept twice😬
Those four Finals losses in Cleveland were a team game though.
@DerethAC But not the one championship he won, it was all LeBron 👍🤣🤣🤣 the other 4 finals losses was his teammates and coaches fault, and he was playing the greatest teams ever 😁😁😁😁
If u bring a championship trophy 🏆 to Cleveland that’s better than 6 rings anywhere else WHY????? because winning in a small market is 3x harder than a big market and that’s facts….
@King_of_Godz Wrong 🤣🤣 another dmb excuse 😬
@@Adaptation49.42 that’s fact bro what’s the last NBA small market to win 🏆 go ahead I’ll wait… it would be like the Bobcats winning a ring… the fact of the matter is y’all LBJ haters gots to stop.. you come back from a 3-1 deficit on a 73 win team is 🐐 STATUS….. it will never happen again so did into any stat line or any other BS y’all can muster up it doesn’t equate to what the Cavs did in ‘16
I wish you mentioned LeBron & Wade mocking Dirk being sick by coughing. Not only did LeBron choke but he couldn't even talkshit and back it up. "Not 5, not 6, not 7..."
Lebron was right though, he was talking about how many Finals he was trying to lose.
@@blue-phoenix115 lmfao you beat me to it.
Yea “Not 5, not 6, not 7” only 2😂
He was coughing because he was on his way to choking.
he cant back it up coz he aint reaching 5 🤣🤣🤣🤣
there is NO Debate who the GOAT is
We forget how nasty MJ was with it. Night in, night out.
And remember 9 years of 82 games😮how you gonna be the goat with 1 season with 82 games and 1 scoring title and only 4 championship in 20 years 😮and the most TO’s in NBA history 😂
@@modernpoet808 Whats even worse is the Lakers not even making the playoffs with Lebron AD and Westbrook. Not even the 8th seed.
Jordan:
- Never lost while the HEAVY favorite to win
- Never got ABUSED and outplayed by ANY other player for a whole series
- Never had to be PUSHED into the correct defensive position
- Was never GIVEN an MVP over another player who clearly deserved it more...nor a ROY award
- Truly only played 12 years and somehow: 6 rings, 6FMVP, 5 RSMVP, 10 scoring titles, 3x steals leader, 9x all defensive team, 2x dunk champ, REAL (not given) ROY, and 3x All Star MVP (back when they PLAYED DEFENSE in the all star game)
Bron:
- Of the 5 biggest upsets in NBA FINALS history, Lebron was on the losing side of THREE of those
- Couldn't stop a near retired Jason Terry, and couldnt score AGAINST a 5'9" JJ Barea
- Rookie teammates had to push him into defensive position SEVERAL times, because he slacked off so frequently, this led to those GOOD young players, being traded off the team the following year lol
- Was GIFTED the ROY over Melo, who brought HIS team (both teams had the same record the previous year) to the playoffs, and the stats were relatively the same
- Was GIFTED an MVP over Wade in 2009, when Wade did something which had never been done in the NBA before AND led the league in scoring that year. And yes...Lebron likely knew it as well, as the following year he decided to team up with Wade lol.
- Despite team hopping and demanding more all stars and future hall of famers and CURRENT top 75ers on his teams, and despite playing TWENTY YEARS, he STILL has not amassed more accolades than a man who played 12 years.
Despite being coined as one of the most athletic players to ever play the game, he is STILL worse at REBOUNDING than a man at his position who was notoriously non athletic and who likely couldnt jump up a curb...Larry Bird....because rebounding and defense takes HEART
“The 5 biggest upsets in NBA Finals history, Lebron was on the losing side of THREE of those”
Quite possibly the biggest lie I’ve ever read in my life. Lebron has only lost in the finals as a favourite ONCE, in 2011. That’s it. Making up garbage doesn’t help your case.
“Was GIFTED an MVP over Wade in 2009”
Another lie. Not only did Lebron deserve the MVP, it should’ve been UNANIMOUS. It wasn’t even close. I also see you made no mention of Jordan getting gifted the MVP over Malone in 98.
Your entire comment is just filled with media propaganda and nothing actually intelligent. It’s clear you’ve just repeated what you’ve heard on TV or on Lebron hate channels like a sheep. Apply some critical thinking please.
Absolutely love this summary! I would add one important according to me fact related to the goat debate: MJ evolved as a player by elevating parts of his game he acknowledged as weakness while Lebron throughout his 20+ years carier could not evolve as at least a decent shooter
Facts just wanted to add that Jordan also won defensive player of the year
Worst playoff loss in point differential of all-time vs Spurs in 2014...2 of the worst ratings in the finals as well, All-time Turnover leader, and quickly approaching the All-time bricks record...also the greatest coach killer...also had over 120 players traded...
But Jordan lost 100% of the time when not playing up under Scottie’s Bulls. 100%. Name me 1 season Jordan won a ring when not with Scotties Bulls. You got plenty to research as he was in the league 15 years research.
Everyone knows Jason Terry is the true GOAT 🐐 for busting Lebron in that finals
Barea also embarrassing him
Terry GOATed himself running down the court after hitting jumpers with his arms out like a jet 😂
nah man barea killed em. nobody could guard him. not even wade
Fucking lebron up lmaooo
and swept kobe too.
James isn't even goat over Kobe. I've watched a few videos in the last few days that show that. Jordan also won a championship in college not to mention, 2 gold medals for the USA. The guy is simply a winner... 🐐
Kobe arguably choked worse in '04 than Lebron did in '11.
No Kobe didn’t Lebron literally scored under 10 kobe never in finals
@@MistaWordz23ppg is better then 18ppg goofy
@@sirfrescobar4830 48% from the field is better than 38% goofy. 7rebs and 7 asts a game is also better than 3rebs and 4asts per game 🤡.
Lebron doesn't even belong in the GOAT conversation.
Mj will always be the goat, never folds in any playoff series with the game on the line he clutches it🔥🐐
Never loses. Jordan either wins finals or he gets swept in the first round or he repeatedly prevented from making the conference finals. At 6/0 in a 15 year career, that’s a whole lot of not even qualifying for the finals which equals a whole lot of losing.
@@santosonly7 but he never loses being the favourite. And that is choking
While 2011 Finals was an embarrassment for LeBron, I always think that 2014 Finals was a total annihilation by the Spurs, with LeBron's lack of leadership to get the Heat playing a perfect team ball to win the championship because the Spurs were the ones showing it, especially in the clincher. LeBron and the Heat were outplayed and demoralized and blown off in a record setting point differential in a series.
Bingo!!!
2014 finals was more of a choke job. He was completely locked up by kawhi. He boggled down his own team's offense by holding the ball too long and going nowhere.
Then proceed to stat pad when the game was out of reach to shift the blame to his teamates.
A "ranDu"m thawt 🤔... This comment made me think about that series vs the year b4. The Spurs put that 07 clinic in motion and won 5 - 1 and the Heat players were carrying LBJ out. The Heat fizzled out. I guess when the road signs say "Don't mess with Texas", even our heat takes it personal when challenged by another heat... 😂😂😂😂
Great point with the points differential. That’s always been a big indicator of LeBron not even deserving to be in the “goat” discussion… look at the number of times he gets absolutely blown out by 20, 30, or 40 or more points (it’s a bunch).
Then look how many times that has happened to MJ… like maybe 8-ish losses by 20, 2 or 3 by 30, and none by 40? I looked it up once upon a time, but I’m a little fuzzy on the numbers now.
Even if they were having a bad night, MJ wouldn’t quit. He’d make it a game. If they could pull within 8 or 10 points with 2 or 3 minutes left, you expected them to win the game.
When it gets tough, LeBron looks for a reason to quit, and he will. He’ll even just walk off the court and take himself out of games with 4 or 5 minutes left if his team is down double-digits.
How anybody thinks that man is the “goat” is a mystery paired with a conundrum wrapped in an enigma.
Just makes no damn sense.
Yes! My Spurs whooped that azz! It was beautiful to watch!
2014 loss was equally embarrassing if not more than 2011. Lebron set NBA final record in losing margin per game after Spurs wiped the floor with him. Duncan and Ginobili were way outta their prime by 2014.
People also forget D Wade mentioning that Bron didn’t want to take over the team and Wade am had to tell him it’s ok to be dominant. So essentially Bron went to the Heat to willingly be a #2 option and ended up being a #3 😂. But he’s the Goat 😂
This is a great point that is always overlooked. He was definitely trying to have Wade and Bosh carry him to a ring.
I take it more as LeBron trying to play the role of a true PG. During that series it looked to me like James was trying to play more like Jason Kidd, and as a result he was basically canceled out by Kidd.
@@imdbtruth I agree, but that’s still him taking a backseat. Lebron is a good player maybe even a great one, just not the Goat.
When was Lebron ever the 3rd option?
@quintinx.3630 I agree with that, he's definitely not the GOAT.
And that was Lebron’s SECOND Finals lol. Jordan’s 1st Finals he went 31ppg 6.6 rpg 11.4 apg 2.8 spg. 2nd finals? 35.8ppg 4.8 rpg 6.5 apg. 🐐
Dang didn't realize bro was 22 years old with a garbage team!
@@guyschill2059cope
@@guyschill2059No garbage team makes it to The Finals in any era. Stop it.
@@melvinhhcp3615 yeah the same team that went 19-63 dead last in the east when he left, I agree it wasn't a bad team
Context is key not dismissing mj but come on that lakers team was not that good and they were in a weak west that Dallas team would wipe that lakers team
Wade was cleary the BETTER player on those Heat teams.
What made that unclear was Wade's injuries catching up with him sooner than later.
Lebron is great, one of the top 10 of all time, arguably top 5 for most, however on that Heat team when he played with Bosh and Wade, it was clear Wade was the best player.
Wade knew to win with Lebron he had to step back and give Lebron that control.
It cost them a couple of chips, and would have costed them a third chip if wasn’t for the unbelievable heroics of Ray Allen in the clutch.
Long story short, MJ is the goat, and there's no one close, but we already knew this.
Salute 🫡
Wade was only better than Lebron in the 2011 finals. Never in any regular season or for any total playoff run
Wade was better the whole year they lost to Mavs and before all of that..Lebron was only better from 2012 and on
Dwade step back so LeBron could be better, LeBron didn't know how to be effective off ball. Dwade was yelling at him "to shoot the ball mfer" in those finals. 2011 was a turning point for LeBron. In order for LeBron to be capable of winning he needs the whole organization in support of him + plus a couple of Hall of Fame teammates. Lebron cost Dwade a ring and wasted one of his last prime years and in 2014 when Dwade was dealing with his injuries in those finals, LeBron left him
Real GOAT don’t make 20 out 112 shots in clutch time like LBJ…
Or run from the moment and let everybody on his media flunky squad say he was "making the right play." That's fine, but it just shows you he's not at MJ's level.
The right play should be the best player taking the toughest shots
Michael Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen
84-85 38-44..First round exit
85-86. 30-52..First round exit
86-87. 40-42...First round exit
01-02. 37-45..out of playoffs
02-03. 37-45..out of playoffs
LeBron james carried an absolutely horrific 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team to the nba finals
In the modern NBA era (post 1960) only nine NBA top 75 players have won a championship without another top 75 player as a teammate
Rick Barry (1975)
Bill Walton (1977)
Hakeem Olajuwon (1994)
Tim Duncan (2005) (2007)
Kobe Bryant (2009) (2010)
Steph Curry (2015) (2022)
LeBron james (2016)
Kawhi Leonard (2019)
Giannis Antetokounmpo (2021)
As you can see, LeBron James is on the list and Michael Jordan isnt
Lebron james has won 17 playoff series, without an nba top 75 teammate. Michael Jordan won ZERO
In the year before Michael Jordan and LeBron James joined their team and the year after they left their team, their records were
83-84 bulls 27-55
84-85 bulls. 38-44
92-93 bulls 57-25
93-94 bulls 55-27
98-99 bulls 13-37 without Scottie Pippen
00-01 wizards 19-63
01-02 wizards. 37-45
02-03 wizards 37-45
03-04 wizards 25-57
02-03 cavaliers 17-65
03-04 cavaliers 35-47
09-10 cavaliers 61-21
10-11 cavaliers 19-63
09-10 heat. 47-35
10-11 heat 58-24
14-15 heat 37-45
2013-14 cavaliers 33-49
2014-15 cavaliers 53-29
2017- 18 cavaliers 50-32
2018-19 cavaliers 19-63
2017-18 lakers. 35-47
2018-19 lakers were 20-14 when LeBron James got injured on Christmas day.
As you can see When LeBron James joins a team, the team improves more than Michael Jordan and when LeBron James leaves a team, the team always goes into the tank.
Michael Jordan, excluding the 94-97 seasons, when the NBA moved the three point line to 22 feet, was a career 28% three point shooter. LeBron James is a career 34% three point shooter
Michael Jordan was a great defensive player, in an Era where you could handcheck. Playing defense is much easier when you can handcheck. For nearly 6'9 250 LeBron James' entire career he wasn't afforded the opportunity to handcheck.
THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR..LEBRON JAMES IS THE GOAT!!!!!
I have added a Postscript
So many have replied, that LeBron james didn't make the playoffs his first two years and Jordan did. What they fail to say is, in 1985, 16 of 23 teams made the playoffs. In 2004, 16 of 29 teams made the playoffs. It was MUCH EASIER Making the playoffs in 1985. Also, I don't know, possibly, maybe, Jordan had a HUGE ADVANTAGE considering he played three years of college basketball and LeBron James was 19 years old, and straight out of high school
@@vicepresidentmikepence889copy and paste argument
@@vicepresidentmikepence889 sorry you're always having such a hard time being wrong
Folks often think the goat “debate” ended after LBJ got outscored by 4 players in 2011, but truth is there was never a debate. Plus after 2007 finals he blew his chance of getting ahead of MJ anyways. Then you have to factor in how LBJ won as opposed to how MJ did. One had to seek out established stars to win easy, the other lost then got help and lost again until eventually winning with the same core. Never formed a superteam or colluded with other stars, was never a second option or sharing the scoring the load. These are just some of the instances on why MJ is by far the goat. You include his accomplishments, his clutchness all throughout the playoffs especially finals, the stats, the advanced stats, rings etc it just makes it impossible for anyone to dethrone that.
Well if there's no debate why are you and everyone else on here talking about it?
@@MikeHawk-yg3gk Because LeBron Lames like you need an education. You reach, we teach. We Jordan Truthers love Basketball Like Mike and think all Basketball fans should know what the real GOAT means. You can either learn and better yourself or remain an ignorant trolling fool who doesn't know any better.
@@MikeHawk-yg3gk terrible reading comprehension, you’re all over the place with the same lame counters lmao
@@MikeHawk-yg3gk
You really got him with that one Michael 🤦....you are a disgrace to yo name Mike.
@@eazyduzit-tr3nxread my brother
MJ was a once in a lifetime talent!
Thing is, LeCon is too. No player has ever had the combination of his size, strength, skill and athleticism.....but mentally he's a diva, coward and a frontrunner. His legacy is garbage. He could've been the best ever.
@@sladewilson6924The skill is debatable. He is head down barreling to the rim. A wide open dunk or fall away 3 pointer. No post game, no 15’ jump shot, no skill moves to get his shot. He doesn’t have the move that McGrady put on Kobe in the beginning of the video. His defense of chasing down to block can be looked at two ways. Great play but it means he was out of position or late getting back to defend.
@@johnnyblaze9206 He had skills. IMO he hasn't worked on them to keep them. He's relied on his athleticism and the refs bailing him out entirely too much. But there's no debate at all that he could've been the best ever. His laziness and lack of heart is what has kept him from achieving his potential.
@@sladewilson6924 I agree.
Jordan is a once in forever type of player.
Yeah, I'll never get why so many people want a guy that choked and got swept twice in the finals, stacks the deck for easy winning and flops regularly as the goat of our great sport. Never.
Sounds to me like your hating jordans bulls would get swept by the kd warriors to
@brandangreen1390 How am I hating? I didn't lie on James with anything I said. I just listed facts about him you can't say about MJ. So hypotheticals won't change anything.
@brandangreen1390 Nothing to do with hate, Lebron isn't a true competitor. He didn't want to beat the best to be the best. He took the sucker's way out and deserves zero respect from anyone that's an athlete.
Hell2thaNawNawNaw‼️‼️‼️
@@True-Believer616 im saying its a fact lebron faced two dynasties and arguably the grestest team all time he would get smoked by the 2017 warriors and besides 2011 if u put jordan in lebron shoes he wouldn’t do much better either
If you're not the best player on your team, you are OUT of the GOAT discussion.
By your logic kobe shouldn’t be mentioned with kobe either since he played with shaq
@@brandangreen1390kBut Kobe won two chips without Shaq, Remember!!!
@@BlackMoonHawk he still spent 3 as a robin thats a fact
I think more appropriately- if you join a new team in your prime, let alone hold an hour long tv special to announce it, and you’re not the best player on your new team that first year- you’re out of the Goat convo.
Considering I do have Kobe in the goat convo if not the goat himself, having three rings by 22 isn’t the same as being a sidekick
@@Hidalgoes bro he was playing along side the most dominant player ever in the modern nba wat u talking about kobe aint on jordan level bro no one in the goat debate with him
Debate ended as soon as he didn’t win 4 straight in Miami.
REAL GOATS DON’T FLOP
This. Sportsmanship counts. He is disqualified from the conversation on this ALONE.
Don't forget the 2 Bronze Medals in International Play...Disgrace
Lebron was a baby and international competition was a million times better in the 2000s than the 80s or 90s. Yall love just writing stuff with zero context. Jordan played in a way less complex era.
Lebron played in an era where the game was revolutionized several times, players were much more skilled and potent overall plus faced two dynasty teams in the finals a total of 7 times and still has the second most finals mvps of all time. I mean idk how yall wanna ignore that. The only thing you guys got is 2011 but that doesn't erase everything else he's done cuz he's done things not even Jordan could do.
@@cyberbron2077 I’ve completely had ot with the james slander lol thank u man
@@cyberbron2077 Yet Kobe joined the olympic team in 08 (after lebron and his posse's 04 and 06 disasters) and the US blew all that amazing "international competition" off the map. Stop it.
@@SuperSonic_868 you do realize lebron wasn't the leader on those 04 or 06 teams right. The 2008 team had actual veterans and the younger guys finally had some years in the league to get better so stop all that bs. In Jordan's time all they did was group the best players because they knew they'd smoke them anyways.
In the 2000s they needed to actually develop and learn to play as a team to beat European teams because the Europeans were actually starting to catch up. If you want evidence of that, go look at the top nba players today, most of them aren't even American so stop all that. Jordan's era didn't have any real international competition, Jordan was the one who inspired kids from international to take basketball seriously and actually pursue it and we saw the byproduct of that in the 2000s and on. Stop being hard headed.
Yall really tryna get at lebron for playing better competition. That makes no sense. The guy who plays in a much tougher era in terms of international competition and basketball period and still stood amongst the rest is somehow worse to you.
@@cyberbron2077 Wade, Lebron, and Carmelo were named captains of the 2006 US World Championship team. Stop lying
Bronsexuals will still argue excuses that Jordan didn't play the warriors several times and that he played with plumbers and non athletes often confusing the 90's era with Bill Russell's era. You may be able to convert some but most of them will never ever get it because they weren't around to see Jordan play themselves and that's extremely unfortunate for them.
It's true though. None of the teams mj faced were as good as the spurs or warriors and lebron faced them 7 times in the finals. Still got 4 finals mvps too so idk what yall pressed about. He has his case for being the goat.
One bad finals performance doesn't erase what he's done. No player has led a finals in all categories for both teams, and he did that against a 73 win team. He's also the only player inthe modern era to win 4 mvps in 5 years. Factor in his finals competition and the fact that he's still second all time in finals mvps. I mean idk how you guys can act like it's crazy to have Bron as the goat.
He played in a way more complex era defensively and offensively and played with much more skilled shooters and players overall and he still stood head and shoulders above the rest. Respect to Jordan he got his right to be the goat but lebron does too.
@@cyberbron2077 thank u people dont get it and crap on james so much i hate it lebron has never had the luxury of a stable organization like the Celtics lakers and chicago thats a fact and the competition in the finals aint even close
Yeah that plumbers argument is the dumbest thing ever.
@@cyberbron2077 Had Bron played against those plumbers he would have been out of the league by season 10 limping away given how soft he is by playing against fortnite players and podcasters. Heavens forbid he played against the Bad Boys when there are no refs to call his flops.
@@pyotrbagration2438 you old heads regurgitate the same sh*t over and over again. It's hilarious honestly. Yall think a 6'9 260 pound man would have trouble in an era that would allow him to be more physical.
Lebron only had trouble with defenses that played zone and sagged off him on the perimeter in his career and that was early on. If you think the simple man to man and double team defense of the 80s and 90s with players much smaller than today's players would have affected him then you're just delusional but I respect your opinion even though it shows you clearly lack basketball knowledge.
The goat doesn't get outplayed by a bench player who's the Sixth Man of the Year. The goat does not get swept not in just the finals but the playoffs. The goat doesn't leave the team he's on to join a super team just to win a championship because he can't cut it.
The GOAT doesn’t flip to change the momentum. The GOAT doesn’t flop. The GOAT doesn’t load manage.
@@Says_methat flopping shit is so wild to me. I've seen his Stans talk about Jordan getting calls but it's crickets when you bring up this damn dude and his flopping. One time this asshole actually flopped in midair. Like Holy shit imagine possibly hurting yourself because of flailing your limbs about to get calls instead of trying to brace for a bump.
@@Says_meyour goat quit for 2 years he was tired. And before you say his dad died IT sister died and he still balled out.
@@givemesometime8405My GOAT played a whole other sport over that 2-year span, it’s not like he was jus at home on his ass the whole time
@@TreWimsical but he still quit bron never did that
Real Goats don’t lose 6 finals outta 10
MJ is 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
lebozo couldn't even get to play-offs without Larry Hughes 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
You have to lose before you win all the greats lost before they won its just facts
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886 MJ 6 and 0 in the finals with 6 MVP’s most in nba history a what what 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
@@samuraibeastwarrior2886 REAL GOATS DON’T MAKE EXCUSES
Mj lowest scoring game in the playoff was 15 and in the finals was 22
Lebron has scored under 10 twice in the playoffs in his PRIME... MJ 🐐
Well not really hard when you take 48 shots.
@@JS-fw9ot Lebron only took just under 4 shots less than Jordan... Do better
Yeah lets not talk about the wizards...... at 38 years old lebron averages better stats at literally the same amount of time played as mj at 38. Hes actually averaging better points rebounds an assists than mj did in his last year with the bulls on 4 less minutes on the court. Calm yourself.🎉
An another thing this nut case stuff out here acting blind and forgetting who all played for the bulls cause it wasn't just jordan on the court doing it all. That team needed pippen an when it came to the last 3 the needed rodman for rebound insurance.
I wouldn't put LeBron above Kareem.
...now imagine if someone like Luka joined up with 2 other top 15 players, played in the East....and the East was historically weak 🤦
Oh brother he's ducking competition....he needs help so he ran to his all-star friends....
Meanwhile the Fool From Akron is just great. When he does the same shit he's teaching the other all-stars how to play and win 😂
The east weak??? Did u watch the 2018 eastern finals?
@@justingriego6986 😂 What about the 10-15yrs before that?
The 10 15 years before that Lebron was doing it by hisself. Jordan never carried no team to the finals he got bumped first round without Scottie and Rodman. Basketball is a team sport anyway. All u guys just hate cause u know it the truth even the nba players say it is Lebron is more consistent, a better team mate, a better scorer (all time leading) better playmaker (way better. ) best driver of the basketball we will ever see. And we was going up against the spurs , Tim Duncan, parker, ginobli, kawhi Leonard, and who did Lebron have to help him on his team??? Jordan never did what u guys expect Lebron to do. But the critizise Lebron for not doing what Jordan couldn’t even do. Jordan had a great coach and a great front office. They created a great team around Jordan. Like I said the bulls were the super team of the 90s u act like Jordan never played with all time greats. Scottie, Rodman defensively. Steve Kerr highest 3 point percentage of all time look it up. U gonna tell me that’s not a big three?? Jordan Scottie and Rodman? That’s the same as James wade and Bosh
@@cappy2282 the 10-15 before that Lebron had no help rookie coaches bad front offices. Jordan never made it past
The first round without help geeeeesh!!! Stop criticizing Lebron for what u wouldn’t expect out of Jordan or never even did. Jordan had a lot of help and all time great coach. U guys don’t know shit if ur not giving Lebron props for what he has done in the nba. He will be the greatest of ALL TIME when it’s all said and done
I'm not even a LeBron hater or a Jordan fan. But I started watching NBA basketball in the mid 80s. And I have to say, it is clear as day that lebron is the most delusionally hyped up player I have ever seen in any sport my whole life.
😂😂😂😂
Funny thing is that Lebron called himself the Goat. Even funnier is that he said it knowing that he choked in the Finals. No shame in losing, but not showing up is another story.
Another thing to note. Is not only has Lebron choked. But he also quit in the 2018 finals.
I know some people will say what was the point as the GS were "unbeatable" but games 1 and 3 were very winnable. In game 3 he ran from KD and we all saw him just throw in the towel in game 4.
That's goat activity?
Bulls vs Celtics, Jordan scored over 60, never quit on his team, he wouldn't quit even in a regular season match, he'd take it to double overtime just to get the win.
@@user-pw2ro7gt4r 2018 Bron is the most complete player. After that playoff run you could visibly see'd he'd slow down. Why destroy your body for a win that you will not get? He wants to extend his career and play with his son. Ever since he pushed himself in the 2018 run he's been piling injuries and gotten slower despite always being the healthiest, most athletic player in the League.
@@TrueGuardify 5 years ago? Goat debate is done, I dunno why anyone bothers to even bring up LeBron, he wasn't even the greatest on his own teams much less all time.
@@yourpal6542 Yes, 5 years ago he was, the best player ever....? Which part of my post confuses you?
@@TrueGuardify Can't be the best ever if you condoning him quitting to preserve his body.
Plus he could have gotten those 2 wins. He just gave up and quit.
Not just 2011, 2007 Finals, 2008 1-6 vs Celtics, 2010 vs Celtics 4-6, 2011 obviously, 2013 Game 1-5 NBA Finals (first three games averaged 17/12/7 on 39/23/83), 2014 Finals stat-padded got his numbers in garbage time, 2016 Game 1-4, 2021 vs Suns, and 2023 vs Nuggets minus Game 4. Lebron is one of the greatest post-season players of all time but he's had way more meltdowns in post-season when you think about it but LeMedia won't tell you. Thats why I can never put LeBron above Jordan because Michael Jordan never chocked in the post-season. Along with MJ is just better both sides of the ball period end of discussion.
Jordan never choked. Yeah ok buddy, 88 vs Pistons, 86 vs Celtics Game 3, 87 vs Celtics, 89 vs Pistons Games 4-6, 95 vs Magic.
88 Pistons dude was carrying bulls alone
86 Celtics how in the world is he gonna beat one of the very best teams assembled in the 80s?!?
87 Celtics not as same as last year but they're still a formidable team with multiple hofers while MJ was the sole superstar
89 Piston The Jordan Rules. I guarantee you any player being subjected to that much pummeling will not be able withstand that much punishment no matter how unflappable you are
95 Magic this might just be the only legitimate choke on your list. He was rusty having just returned after not playing for more than a year. But a choke is still a choke as hard as it is to admit. He came back better and far more determined the next year though(72-10 season and 3peat chips).
@@imfinishedgrinding638
So you can excuse Jordan for carrying the Bulls but not Lebron for carrying the Cavs? That would remove 07 Finals and 08 Celtics.
And notice how I said Game 3 vs the 86 Celtics. The game that Jordan had 19 points after dropping 63 the game before and getting outscored by John Paxson and Dave Corzine.
87 Celtics were all winnable games just like how Jordan fans say the 07 Spurs were. Specifically Game 3 where Jordan stunk it up in the 4th, losing by 11, despite being up 5 entering the 4th.
I thought Jordan was so mentally tough and had killer instinct? Why did the 89 Pistons get to him? And that wasn’t a case of Jordan rules. He simply choked in the last 3 games.
I understand these are all cherry picked moments but that’s exactly what OP did, cherry pick random games he played bad, even if they ended up winning the series.
@@imfinishedgrinding638 15 games out of 82 is not a choke.
@@gggyy7104 Much appreciated for the info. Jordan has his fair share of bad games. Everyone does. 2011 is still a huge blemish to Lebron's legacy but no one has any right to critique Lebron for losing in 07 when he was solo carrying the cavs and facing the Warriors that had KD. The only thing I disagree with is 1989. The Jordan rules finally got to him physically as he didn't have enough bulk to withstand it. The following year he worked on it and he swept the Pistons... or maybe Grant and Pippen just developed enough by that time that this trio peaked at the right time.
Finally, someone says what I've been saying for years. Michael, Jordan never lost the series he was supposed to win. LeBron did it multiple times. Just that fact the goat conversation is over.
lmao mj had easy runs, jazz took jordan to game 6, aint no way he beats the durant warriors in a 7 game series if a 90s jazz team took 2
Pretty sure lebron lost one series he was supposed to win and won a series he was supposed to lose
@@crizzleyo815even Iggy admitted they will loss to the 96 Bulls. Three first team all Defence.
I wonder if he'd be favoured to win a series against a 73-9 team that adds another top 5 player? Those Warriors and Spurs teams were light years better than anyone Jordan faced.
@@raymundfernandez4172 lmao three first team all defence against players that drove hard to the paint with their head down.. guards dribbled with their back turned to the backboard lmao they didnt even know what a off the dribble 3 is.. aint no way u beat that team with defense lmao u have to hit so many 3s to even have a chance.. they swept or 4-1'd for 3 seasons straight for a reason.. yall oldies try to keep living in the past.
It's not just 11, he was awful in his first finals sweep too, but he's excused for his age, yet given all the credit in the world for getting there against crummy Leastern Conference. He would have been swept in the first round if he was out west.
I’ve always made this same point myself. If you wanna hype him up for “carrying” that team to the finals we also gotta hold him accountable for how horrible he was in that series. He averaged 22 on 35% which is nasty work. The irony of him playing bad is the Cavs were capable of winning every game that series despite Lebron’s poor play. If Lebron plays average that series the Cavs would of had a chance to win it all..
yep, he was awful in '07 series where if he could shoot or sccore efficiently they win the championship. the real truth is it took Lebron about 10-11 years in the NBA to become a polished player. his real peak was 2013 to 2018.
@@_M.... Spurs baited him to shoot almost every Finals series they matched up with Bron, but none was as embarrassing as 07. That was disrespectful and Bron laid an egg being left completely open. Even if you want to give him a pass for his age, it's still an awful showing by someone we're supposed to believe is this generations goat. He's got way too many embarrassing blemishes on that resume and too many asterisks on his rings due to team ups and a Disney bubble
@@HailKingCeezer The Spurs baited him to shoot? Is that why he was getting triple and quadrupled teamed up the court? Saying the bubble ring was an asterisk also just completely proves you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Lebron isn't even Tim Duncan
Thank u that he is not but stats say otherwise prolly idk idc bout stats we know what we saw
This isn't talked about enough
@@generaldiscernment Ya so annoying the disrespect Dunkin gets
The defense in the NBA was much better in the 80s and 90s compared to today. In other words, Michael had to work harder to earn his points.
Real Goats don't take illegal Ped's.
They probably all have at some point. But hey it's a level playing field. We'll let it slide.
If you add Lebronze "sucess" as a Dream Team member as well , you will never ever put Lebron as a top 3 player of all time, but that's just me 😂😂😂😂😂
LeBronze… I like it lol.
dream team or nightmare? hehe
@@turbie5510 Dream Team it was that 1992 squad; but Lebronze not beeing able to win a Internacional competition, shows he is not that good, he was created, and propelled by the League to be the GOAT, but his overall skills, combined with his basketball IQ, werent enough, and he knows it, thats why he joins and creates superteams (in USA squad they had to bring Kobe and Kd so Lebronze could win an International tittle, and not look like a looser anymore, cause till then a Looser not being able to win for USA was what he was), and thats how he wins and creates his phony legacy, bringing great players to his team to do the job for him, so thats why he's not my choice for Top 5 all Time.
Players like M. Jordan, Magic, K. Jabbar, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, just to name a few on my opinion were better, and none of them had the League in their pocket, like this fake king had from day 1 in Nba.
Kobe saw Lebronze get two straight bronze medals in 04 and 06 and said "enough is enough."
There’s only one Dream Team, 1992. Lebron played in the Olympics. Huge difference. Never a Dream Team member.
REAL GOATS DON'T HAVE THE MOST TURNOVERS IN NBA HISTORY ie.. Lebron james
By far too.
Between 91 and 98 when Jordan played he never lost more than 2 games in a row. That alone says it all
Since November 1990
When LBJ was dominated in the finals by Jason Terry he forfeited all rights to ever be the goat! He was held to like 16 points a game from a 29 ppg regular season! Jason Terry tore his a$$ up!
So what about Jordan being dominated by IT? 5’11 IT , 3 years in a row
@@TheReBrandShow There is a difference in playing your ass off and losing to a better team like Jordan did early in his career and being the better team and getting your heart pulled out of your chest and folding like a cheap tent like LBJ did.
Lebron was absolute garbage during that series. It was a GOAT disqualifying performance
Lebron whole career is based on spurts not consistency his fans only bring up a certain playoff or finals series MJ was dominating ten years in scoring and winning championships no other players has achieved more in less time stop comparing
His fans only use false narratives they heard from Shannon/Nick and then use hypotheticals against MJ. All they really have is longevity stats and even then it’s just that...longevity stats, which doesn’t prove a player is better than the other.
I remember them clowning KD when he lost to The Bucks in 7 his first year in the east. When LeBron made all those Finals in that pathetic conference there was nobody near the same level as the Bucks. And also crickets when you mentioned him missing the playoffs when he went to the West his first year 😂
That’s the same $hit y’all do for MJ only bring up his Success and Leave out the FAILURES
@@chucknorris2418would you be willing to name the top 100 players in 1995. I’ll list the top 100 players today so we can properly compare the two eras. I got a hunch that One of them is talented all the way through and the other one is janitors past the top 20
@@Blackjeezus850 What do you consider failure? For me losing when you are the underdog isn't failure. MJ never once lose a series that he wasn't underdog, that's perfection, being 24-0.
Some important context for the 2011 series..LeBron said "I am taking my talents to south Beach " and first opportunity to show those talents on the biggest stage he chokes
These videos are pure gold. Keep up the good work!
Even without 2011 it’s still not close. 2011 just makes it Extremely obvious
So tired about hearing 2011 only series he choked!!wake up 2007 finals and playoff run he was not that gd!!finals he was awful 35% 6 turnovers per game!!this the finals!!2008 vs celtics he shoots 36% for the series again people we talking entire series not just 1 game!!36% in a 7 game series is crazy!!2010 vs celtics he choked last 3 games shooting 32% and 2015 finals he built a whole community of bricks!!shot 39% in series and probably had the most all time misses in a finals series as he had a bunch of awful shooting nights..This guy has had the most help and most playoff collapses in NBA history!!
I Kno my man we jus try 2 not bash him 2 hard lol he's good sure but he dnt need 2 b mentioned with real goats jus cuz sum dumb stats that doesn't show all his chances and failures. The real fans kno what's up tho I got faith. my spurs laid n2 him those finals
@@relicdad88thank god for people like you!!But thats the thing bro he bring it on himself..Calling yaself the goat and having ya wife do it at the espys and man we can write a book on clown moves but my bad bro i just really get annoyed at how anybody with a brain can do research/homework and not see jordan the goat lmao!!Im only 29 and know this!!
Here's this "debate" in a nutshell. Jordan was better offensively, SIGNIFICANTLY better defensively and also the greatest closer ever as well as being better in the playoffs. What the hell else is there? The only legitimate argument anybody could ever possibly make for Lebron being better at an actual basketball skill than Jordan would be assists and rebounds. Lebron has averaged 2 more assists per game and 1 more rebound. That's it. Jordan is far superior than Lebron at literally everything else.
@joeldriver-sp2rg Jordan is a better rebounder because he still has more offensive rebs than Lebron even though Lebron played almost 400 games more than Jordan. Jordan's passing skills are underrated as well
some people will argue that LeBron is better defensively bc he can play all 5 positions but I still think Jordan is better defensively
@@andrewmauney3082 Thats a lie. Lebron cant play all 5 positions.
@@andrewmauney3082 There's not any question among those knowledgeable about basketball that Jordan isn't vastly superior on defense. It's not even close and no, Lebron can't guard all 5 positions. He most certainly wouldn't be able to guard power forwards and centers and he's not quick enough to guard point guards.
@@christiansoldier77 Lebron pretty much plays point guard so he's naturally going to get more assists. For his position Jordan is a better rebounder than Lebron is as a small forward.
Another great video! They keep getting mad at Skip when he keeps reminding people of that series! It’s one of the few things that I agree with him on 100%! It’s in the books you can’t just gloss over that series. It is so important in the Michael Jordan and LeBron James debate.
Different era means nothing to MJ. He would dominate any era anytime. He’s the GOAT end of debate!
2011 is not the only finals where lebron choked.
2013, 2014, 2017, 2018. Oh and 2007.
2013- best version of james
2014-team inferior
2017-averaged a triple double against best team of all time
2018-best version of him
2007-underperformed wat u talking about
@@brandangreen1390 lol. 2013 Allen saved him.
2014 he had 2 of the top 10 players in his own team vs an spurs big 3 who are all past their prime.
Meaningless stats. Russ averages a triple double. 😂. By your logic russ is the goat.
@@glovs4188 d wade amd bosh was to idiot chris bosh was out the league 2 years later and d wade was knees was butter bro
@@brandangreen1390 bullshit.
Bosh was diagnosed with a life threatening medical condition and wade still avg 25ppg on "bad knees" and had the better efficiency.
@@glovs4188 more like 19 bozo lebron last year in miami d wade was a shell of him self sucka and bosh was on his way out as we all know
I still don't understand that there is a debate! The only debate that I see is if LowBron is even a top 10 player of all time? Not in my book tbh!
The real goat 🐐 don't loose more finals than they won !🙏 end of story!🙈👑🏆🎯🔝🔥💪👍🥇
honestly I won't even argue if someone has Kobe ahead of Lebron
Most fans with any sense do. :)
Easily.
Mate, there's like 50 guys ahead of lebron.
2011, the gift that keeps on giving😊
Michael Jordan as Caesar (an unrelenting force); Lebron James as Pompeius Magnus (the man whose longevity gave him godly accolades); Kobe Bryant is Octavian Caesar (the man who wants to be his uncle Caesar); Caesar defeated Pompey, while Octavian became emperor. Was Kobe the GOAT then? No. Octavian carried his uncle's name for a reason, while any mention of Kobe usually ends up with MJ. Lebron on the other hand is an argument for statistical niceties because of how long he's playing.
I can’t stand that Marc Cuben didn’t keep that Mavs team together… He should have given them the chance to repeat… and given all of us a chance to see Miami play them again
The first game of the next season was a rematch if I remember correctly. It was a slaughter because as you mentioned this asshole let it all go to hell. Talk about wasting the 2nd half of a man's career.
JJ Barea ended this man's GOAT conversation
Le travel at 1 minute 10 seconds of his highlights ! 😂
Wouldn't you need to add "LeBronze, LeFlop, & LeChoke" then lol
What kills me about Lebron fans they’ll say Jordan didn’t win nothing Scottie bt then will give lebron a pass for getting smashed by the spurs in 2007. U give one credit for losing with no help. Bt then crucify another for the same thing
20 years from now, the next big hype nba newcomer will still be compared to Jordan in regards to who is the goat. It happens with every generational talent since Jordan. No one 20 years from now will be saying if XX new player will dethrone lebron as the goat.
"That right there made me the GREATEST OF OUR TIME" - Lebron James
If Bron had ever played prime MJ, he'd have been reduced to tears.
Comparing LBJ to Jordan is both, disrespectful towards Jordan and harmful to LBJ.
Not to mention, it was harder to score in MJ's era. If you account for inflation there's an even bigger spread
One of the most impressive stats about Jordan and the Bulls is they never lost more than 2 games in a row from 90 to 98 in the seasons Jordan played. That statistic deserves more recognition.
I did not know that, and it is insane if that's true.
@@pochen23Yeah, it's 100% true. I made sure before I posted it. Amazing that its not discussed more.
Dude, your analysis is really good. This is almost like a lawyer making a persuasive case before a jury. Very good.
Subscribed
The devil is truly in the details. Good work!
Most importantly the real GOAT doesn't hafta go around running his neck trying to convince people that he's the GOAT!!!
Lebron sabotaged Wade's FMVP run. Just like he ducked Kobe the times that he could've faced him (Orlando and Boston were winnable), because he knew that if he lost to Kobe, the Jordan comparisons would stop.
Great point. That Boston series was tied 2-2 and in game 5 the Cavs were only down 6 at half. They end up losing by 32. That game was in Cleveland and Lebron shot 3-14 and had 15 pts.
@@roboninja3194 And before you can say 2010-2011 Season, By then, the Heatles were created. It's funny because Stern blocked the Lakers from Acquiring Chris Paul and in the process, ruining the Laker's team chemistry by demoralizing Pau and Odom, but he didn't bat an eye over Lebron, Wade and Bosh colluding.
That is a unique and interesting theory…, that I kinda believe. It fits his character arc…
@@ericjones499 Another fact: One of the people who complained about the Hornets/Laker Trade was Cleveland Owner, Dan Gilbert.
I hate how some people will say LeBron struggled bc of Dallas superb defense but really LeBron played awful. He shouldlve had his way with Dallas in that series with his size and strength. I was quite surprised with the fact he struggled for 3 straight games
He cant handle the pressure, like wilt, who can do so good during regular season but fail to show up in the playoff season. Also MJ " trusted " his teammate, LBJ 'rely' on his teammate.
Lbj straight out choked tbh he crumbled under the pressure and the dallas vets kinda sensed that took advantage of the situation
It's a combination of LeBron not being true GOAT material, but also the Dallas defense was superb. The Mavericks also won both games against the Heat during the regular season and LeBron only averaged 21ppg on 31% shooting in those games. Both teams had a nearly identical regular season record, and both teams were 12-3 in the playoffs heading into the Finals. Kidd and Marion are about as good of a duo as you could ask for to defend James and Wade. Then a future DPOY Chandler in the middle, that's a stout defensive trio.
All I have to say to Lebron is, “MJ would NEVER…”
MJ is Just the FREAKIN GOAT 🐐 CASED CLOSED TRUE STORY NON FICTION PERIOD.🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
about time someone stepping up and telling the truth rather thin catering 2 LBJ
Why is this still a debate? We know Klutch Sports is paying media members to keep this going. They've brainwashed fans into believing a guy with a 4-6 finals record and 0-7 on game winning shots in the finals is better than 6-0 and 5-2 finals records from players that hit multiple game winning shots in the finals. Was Jordan swept in the finals, was Kobe? No. Lebron has been swept twice in the finals. Kobe and Jordan faced more 50/60 win teams in the playoffs and have a better record vs 50/60 win teams in the playoffs than Lebron does.
The goat does not shoot 37% on shots outside of 3 feet for his career. The goat doesn't have the most turnovers in NBA history and 2nd most missed shots in NBA history. The goat doesn't his ass kicked in the Finals by a 6th man. The goat doesn't go around calling himself the goat while tearing down past players. The goat doesn't hop around the league stacking super team. The goat doesn't have a teammate shove him to play defense. Lebron fans are zombies who believe whatever the Klutch Sports media members on ESPN and FS1 tells them.
Exactly. That's what's so absurd about all this - 37%?....... THE GUY CAN'T SHOOT.
Terry Cummings outscored rookie Jordan by 1 point in their playoff series.
Aside from that, NO ONE scored more than Jordan, from any team, in any series... including his own team....ever....in his career 👀
🐐
Basketball is not just scoring…anyway Jordan is the Goat still , James has a chance
@@veldc8730
You're right. It's also defense.
10 scoring titles
9 All-Defensive 1st Teams
1 Defensive Player of the Year
3 time steals leader
Basketball is score, and stop the opponent from scoring
Welcome to 6-0, 6 Finals MVPs
Little guy
The other thing is it isn’t so much that he didn’t score it’s that he missed the opportunity that he did have to score. There are players that in short spurts in critical moments shoot for example 75% and say 100% from the line. They do it when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter. A good example of a player that can do that is joker and MJ do it and many others have been able to do it.
MJ took the previously down bad Bulls, and lead them to the championship title 6 times. Lebron has consistently failed to win in the finals (or often even make it there) with super team after super team. The only reason this is a debate is because Lebron is gonna play till he’s 65 and his numbers are untouchable. He doesn’t realize everyone is gonna look back and say, “yeah his career numbers are better than everyone else’s, but he took 3 NBA careers to get there so of course his career numbers are better.” Easy to play for that many seasons when you don’t play 1/3 of the games, and when your in you only play 1/2.
Great break down ty! That was game ending.
Hope people see the difference between one of Lebron's #2's and MJ's #2.
The drop off from MJ '#1' to Scottie '#2' is way bigger than any of the other all-time or legendary '#1' and the '#2' they won rings with.
Damn Tmac kilt Kobe on that fake spin😂
don’t leave out what happened the very next play… 😉
Bro ain’t want wade to win that FMVP 😂😂😂
*2011 ended the GOAT debate for good* - you can never recover from something like that. Biggest stage and outplayed & outscored by an opposing team bench player
CRY BRON STANS CRY, LET THE CRYING N EXCUSES BEGIN 😂😅😂😅😂😅
The heat literally were suppose to run the table and got ran by a more older determined team in the Mavs
Love the actual facts! So love this content! Keep up the great work ! GangGang!
Lebron's 8 straight Finals is often brought up as his goat case. But I find Kobe's 7 in 10 years in the insanely stacked West more impressive. The only three years he didnt make it was when his teammates were undeniably utter garbage.
Of course MJ's 6-0 trumps both of these.
Lebron is the only legend that gets heat for not beating that mavs team. Kobe got swept. Hearing nothing of it. KD, Westbrook, and Harden got smashed by that team. Silence. It’s only bron.
THATS BS WE CAN SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT LEBRON LOSt ORLANDO IN THE ECF & KOBE SMOKE THEM IN 5 GAMES IN THE NBA FINALS
@@m.davinci9285 what happened to Kobe in 04? Or what about 07 when he quit on his team after blowing a 3-1 lead. He quit in a game 7. And Jordan can get smoked by the pistons and Celtics before he breaks through, but bron can’t lose toy magic?
The Mavs were the best team, and LeBron is not the GOAT, both are true.
Who thought that LeBron had once Ben Simmons Type of numbers😄
JJ Barea is the LeFlop's stopper
I told everyone back then that D Wade was a better player, and most definitely defensively. LeBron should have never made any All-D team. D Wade average more blocks as a guard than LeBron as a forward and we won't talk about steals. LeBron was a better distributor. That's it! Meanwhile, Mike was a blocking machine and is on the all-time steals list. He was like one or two when he retired the second time. The debate should be Wilt and Mike. That's it.
So why was Kobe being compared to mj after 2004 ?
Or after that very same year where the mavs team they use to attack Lebron career smoked Kobe in a sweep
They only compare his playing style or his " mamba mentally" to jordan but according to them kobe didn't quit or choke at all during his career but we know that's not true but he's nothing like Jordan at all
Only player in NBA history that has any argument at all to be the GOAT instead of Jordan, is Chamberlain.
LeBum isn't even in my all-time top 10. He's a cheating, manipulative, flopping crybaby.
Stop the fight, ring the bell🔔🤣🤣
From his first season onwards Jordan was simply the scariest player on the court whether he was playing offense or defense.
LeChoke has NEVER generated that intangible aura of fear.
What does fear have anything to do with they game
ITS JUST SIMPLE HE CAN PLAY LONG AS HE WANT TO……………….THERE’S NO ONE BETTER THAN JORDAN…….SORRY NOT SORRY😳😳😳😳😳