Two of my most memorable rides were on a TWA L1011 from LA to Chicago and a United Super DC-8 from New Orleans to LA. The DC-8 flight was a red eye and the cabin was 3/4 empty so the flight attendant asked me if I would like to stretch out in a first class seat. Those were great flying days!
Think that "howl" is the air starter spooling up on the engine once the butterfly valve is commanded open & some 40-50PSI air at quite a lot of CFM. JT3D as well as JT8D the air starter turned the N2 compressor via a towershaft thru the accessory gearbox. LOTS of drag-fuel control, hydraulic pump as well as the CSD-Constant Speed Drive for the AC Generators.
Every A&P like myself or most avgeeks/pilots know that. What I don’t know and I’m sure you don’t either is, WHY the starter sounded like that compared to say a 707 or MD-80 which doesn’t sound like that.
@@Starboard76 maybe the overboard ducting ? Having changed out numerous fart starters on JT8D-200 series engines-I will agree with you on that-they don't howl like those of a Greasy 8 persuasion.
The Tu-154B or B-2's NK8 engine produces a howl similar to this. At this old Nagoya Airport, I have heard the North Korean Air Koryo start up its engines many times.
When I was growing up, my dad had a couple of apartment houses about 2 miles out on the final fo LAX 25 Right & Left. At night, when the air was cool, you could hear those "8s" starting up. That sound carried for miles. So the startup in your video was a JAL -61, while the takeoff was a -62. The -62 & -63 pylons didn't extend over the wing leading edge. Also, the -62 & -63 (JT3D-7s) didn;t have reverser cascade doors on the aft portion of the naceles. However, all varients had reverser clam shells at the very back. But what a cool sound those JT-3Bs had on startup. I crewed on all three variants, and when I first signed on with the carrier, they still had a few of the"howlers". The U.S. EPA & FAA made em modifiy those starters due to that noise. It was quite the experience to fly over my dad's apartments and gaze down on the porch I sat on as a child, watching these magnificent monsters on approach. Now retired, thanks to your video, those memories have been refreshed...thank you. p.s. Our Flying Tiger Line A&Ps rocked ! Can't even begin to express how much respect I had for them.
Funny that they bitched about the starter howl but have you ever heard the rumble from the RB-211's starting on an L-1011. Rattle the windows from a mile away.
@@5695q Yes I have. The Lockeed L-1011 had RB-211s, and I noticed two things during startup...the rumble you mentioned, and a tremendous amount of smoke. Early in the the sixties, when jet engines were shut down, they simply cutoff fuel by bypassing fuel overboard during spool down. It would leave a puddle under the engines. So the EPA made em stop doing that. I think Rolls Royce must have simply dumped that fuel into the hot section, where it would burn up on next start, producing that smoke. EPA eventually made them fix that as well. Engine makers developed a presurization & dump valve, that returned this excess to fuel system. The last planes I flew were Boeing 757s,, equipted with RB-211s; they didn't smoke or rumble on startup.
@@sixtiesjunky3312 I worked on F-14A Tomcats in the late eighties, they dumped on shutdown. California made us standby with a bucket to catch it so we could dump it in a waste barrel. When I worked at the airport as a fueler before that and there was a spill, the fire dept. would come wash it down the drain, then they were required to get a vacuum truck to suck up the spill. I belive the fuel systems are now fitted with a valve that routes the fuel back to the tanks through the return rather than dumping on the ground, coked nozzles are a pain to change.
Plane starting the engines is a DC8-61, the one taking off is a DC8-62. They share the same P&W JT3D-3B engine, but with different nacelles and pilons.
Takes me back to my teens when I would spend most of Sunday morning at the airport in Calgary. Very unique sound and a terrific memory. Thank you for this video.
OMG thank you for this video. This is one of the earliest aviation memories I had as a 8 year old. First time seeing a jet, a PAL DC-8 on start up. From 3 floors up on the observation deck, I was mesmerized. I thought I was the only one that remembered that howl. 1-2-3-4! before that beauty started rolling unto the taxiway. The deafening sound. The majestic turns....now 50 years later, I'm still in the aviation world; with 330s, 787s; & NEOs but nothing comes close to hearing the air rush and howl of the DC-8!
This is the coolest engine startup I’ve ever heard from a commercial aircraft engine. I grew up near DTW. And could distinguish the sound of a DC-8 climbing after the takeoff. But never heard the ‘howl’.
Flew on it a couple of times. Even when you booked a window seat, you couldn't always count on seeing anything because the windows were so widely spaced. But I was always lucky...lol
The first spool up you hear is the GPU starting up. That sound dips slightly as the air cuts over to the aircraft and is quickly followed by the howl of #3 engine's turbine section being pressurized to start. Upon reaching the correct RPMs, #3 ignites and you hear the RPMs increase following by the howls of initial pressurization of #2, then 4 and 1 in succession. The sound inside the cabin is muffled, but outside and up close, it's quite startlingly loud. I worked the ramp at JAX in the summers of 1971 and 72 with Delta Air Lines which operated both DC-8-51s and -61s equipped with these very similar P&W JT3D versions. In addition, DL operated a number of DC-8-33s acquired from Pan American and equipped with JT4A engines that did not start with the turbofan howl.
I was going to say that. The 1-11 had a very distinctive starter ruclips.net/video/XI7BgtcFI0k/видео.html Fast forward to 02:25 to bring back wonderful memories!
In the late 1970s, early 1980s, United Airlines converted 30 of their stretch DC-8s to CFM-56 engines. Delta and Flying Tigers followed soon after. A variant of this engine eventually was used to power the very successful 737-300. There’s a bunch more history available on Wikipedia, so I’m not going to get too technical. Anyway, I lived in Culver City, California in the early to mid-1980s. Culver City is located about five miles north of LAX. Every night during the summer, the marine layer rolls in off the beach and blankets pretty much all of the LA area. The noises from the airport carry quite well through the moist air. One thing you could hear clearly from my house over five miles away, was the sound of those old CFMs starting up. I can’t say that I recognize the sound of the engines featured in this video, but the bass sounding roar I heard from my house, was memorable.
Miss the DC8’s. If you want to hear a turbine that “howls” the entire time, go and listen to the turbine on the Lama 315B helicopter. It sounds unlike any other turbine that I’ve heard. It’s a constant high pitched shrill sound and gets very fatiguing. Braniff International’s Calder DC8’s (the ones with the wild paint jobs) used to fly over my house almost daily in the 70’s.
Thanks for this "new" compressed version - I have the orig video in my favorites since 15 years. This brings me back to waving point in Kingston / Jamaica where Air Jamaica used to have these birds in their long haul fleet - Used to make the hairs stand up on my neck as a kid.😄
I lived under the approach path into Buffalo, NY. UA and EA frequently flew the DC-8's in and out. To me, they were so ear piercing loud I labelled them "The Screecher!"
As others have commented, I have vivid memories of this sound from the early 60s. First time I heard it, we were in SJU on vacation, on the way from MIA to JFK (dad worked to PA) and we got stuck in SJU trying to get to JFK for 2 days. Somehow we were in the clipper club, overlooking the ramp at SJU and Trans Caribs DC-8s came in/out all day from the gate below. I remember them starting up just below before departure to JFK. Note..after 2 days of sitting there and a very uncomfortable night at the hotel there, we gave up on JFK and went to PHL, drove to JFK to pick up the car and went home.. I am sure my parents were totally fed up with this (the joys of non-rev), but I thought it was totally cool.....
@@ronparrish6666 I flew 707 variants in the USAF many moons ago. We were equipped with TF-33s (JT8-Ds) and could start from the APU, a Dash 8 (huffer cart), or cross start from another engine. It didn't sound anything like the DC-8 in this video, so there must be another explanation.
Actually the JT3Ds smoked much less than the PW JT3C and JT4A turbojet engines. Seems like the JT3Ds got more "smokey" as the hours ticked up on the engines.
could be another j79 situation where the js the F-104s had had stater valves that produced a howling sound on both start and throttle up, or at flying at a certain throttle increment. the F-4 had the same engines, yet they didnt howl like the Starfighters did. *i think they were later models with the staters removed. same for the Delta Dart. maybe the JT3Ds used on the DC-8 were different models from the 707s?
If you want to hear more of that DC 8 start up howl, check out this excellent NFB ( National Film Board of Canada) documentary called Jet Pilot, about the flight operations day for an early 1960’s TCA ( Trans Canada Airlines) DC 8 crew. One of my favourite vintage aviation films. ruclips.net/video/jOkg5qNLyao/видео.htmlsi=e3cPE6Tm2yNA2tJD
The DC-8 and L1011 are still my two favorites.
Two of my most memorable rides were on a TWA L1011 from LA to Chicago and a United Super DC-8 from New Orleans to LA. The DC-8 flight was a red eye and the cabin was 3/4 empty so the flight attendant asked me if I would like to stretch out in a first class seat. Those were great flying days!
If memory serves me, the DC-8-40 series with the Rolls Royce Conways made even a more distinctive sound at startup.
DC-8, miss you! Nice video of a great aircraft! Old and good times!
Delightful! Thank you!
Think that "howl" is the air starter spooling up on the engine once the butterfly valve is commanded open & some 40-50PSI air at quite a lot of CFM. JT3D as well as JT8D the air starter turned the N2 compressor via a towershaft thru the accessory gearbox. LOTS of drag-fuel control, hydraulic pump as well as the CSD-Constant Speed Drive for the AC Generators.
Every A&P like myself or most avgeeks/pilots know that. What I don’t know and I’m sure you don’t either is, WHY the starter sounded like that compared to say a 707 or MD-80 which doesn’t sound like that.
What he said....
@@Starboard76 maybe the overboard ducting ? Having changed out numerous fart starters on JT8D-200 series engines-I will agree with you on that-they don't howl like those of a Greasy 8 persuasion.
Wow…
The Tu-154B or B-2's NK8 engine produces a howl similar to this.
At this old Nagoya Airport, I have heard the North Korean Air Koryo start up its engines many times.
When I was growing up, my dad had a couple of apartment houses about 2 miles out on the final fo LAX 25 Right & Left. At night, when the air was cool, you could hear those "8s" starting up. That sound carried for miles.
So the startup in your video was a JAL -61, while the takeoff was a -62. The -62 & -63 pylons didn't extend over the wing leading edge. Also, the -62 & -63 (JT3D-7s) didn;t have reverser cascade doors on the aft portion of the naceles. However, all varients had reverser clam shells at the very back. But what a cool sound those JT-3Bs had on startup. I crewed on all three variants, and when I first signed on with the carrier, they still had a few of the"howlers". The U.S. EPA & FAA made em modifiy those starters due to that noise.
It was quite the experience to fly over my dad's apartments and gaze down on the porch I sat on as a child, watching these magnificent monsters on approach. Now retired, thanks to your video, those memories have been refreshed...thank you. p.s. Our Flying Tiger Line A&Ps rocked ! Can't even begin to express how much respect I had for them.
Funny that they bitched about the starter howl but have you ever heard the rumble from the RB-211's starting on an L-1011. Rattle the windows from a mile away.
@@5695q Yes I have. The Lockeed L-1011 had RB-211s, and I noticed two things during startup...the rumble you mentioned, and a tremendous amount of smoke. Early in the the sixties, when jet engines were shut down, they simply cutoff fuel by bypassing fuel overboard during spool down. It would leave a puddle under the engines. So the EPA made em stop doing that. I think Rolls Royce must have simply dumped that fuel into the hot section, where it would burn up on next start, producing that smoke. EPA eventually made them fix that as well. Engine makers developed a presurization & dump valve, that returned this excess to fuel system. The last planes I flew were Boeing 757s,, equipted with RB-211s; they didn't smoke or rumble on startup.
@@sixtiesjunky3312 I worked on F-14A Tomcats in the late eighties, they dumped on shutdown. California made us standby with a bucket to catch it so we could dump it in a waste barrel. When I worked at the airport as a fueler before that and there was a spill, the fire dept. would come wash it down the drain, then they were required to get a vacuum truck to suck up the spill. I belive the fuel systems are now fitted with a valve that routes the fuel back to the tanks through the return rather than dumping on the ground, coked nozzles are a pain to change.
We called it the dc-8 mating call
Plane starting the engines is a DC8-61, the one taking off is a DC8-62. They share the same P&W JT3D-3B engine, but with different nacelles and pilons.
I do swear there was also a unique DC-8 sound that its overall shape cut through the air. You could hear it even on the 70 series.
Could be, yes. Maybe from the "nostrils" on the lower part of the nose? Semi-similar openings on the Corsair's wings gave that plane its "howl".
Brings back memories! My very first flights were on the DC-8-63s of “supplementals” Capitol Intl Aiways and Overseas Natl Airways in 1970.
Classic airliner from a golden age will never come back 😢😭✈️🔝
Takes me back to my teens when I would spend most of Sunday morning at the airport in Calgary. Very unique sound and a terrific memory. Thank you for this video.
What a classic!My favourite airliner of all❤️👍
Love that sound!
it was a stand alone sound..period!
OMG thank you for this video. This is one of the earliest aviation memories I had as a 8 year old. First time seeing a jet, a PAL DC-8 on start up. From 3 floors up on the observation deck, I was mesmerized. I thought I was the only one that remembered that howl. 1-2-3-4! before that beauty started rolling unto the taxiway. The deafening sound. The majestic turns....now 50 years later, I'm still in the aviation world; with 330s, 787s; & NEOs but nothing comes close to hearing the air rush and howl of the DC-8!
This is the coolest engine startup I’ve ever heard from a commercial aircraft engine. I grew up near DTW. And could distinguish the sound of a DC-8 climbing after the takeoff. But never heard the ‘howl’.
Neat sound, thanks for sharing!
この当時に、この動画が撮られた名古屋空港でグランドサービスをしてきました。
EG台北便に加えてJLの香港・マニラ便がDC8-61で運航されました。
-62も活躍していましたが、ニューマチックスターター始動時の雄叫びは-61の方が賑やかでしたね。
-50シリーズもこのエンジンで、最後に聞いたのは1991年にWorld Fish & Agricultural社の-55がパラウから魚を運んで来た貨物機でした。
この DC-8 の位置を訂正していただきありがとうございます。
また、エンジンの動作に関する深い洞察にも感謝します。
Beautiful...!! I still remember when I used to work as an A&P mechanic on DC-8s
Flew on it a couple of times. Even when you booked a window seat, you couldn't always count on seeing anything because the windows were so widely spaced. But I was always lucky...lol
At 9 this was the first airplane I ever flew in--Washington Dulles to London Gatwick. July 1972 and I have been addicted to airplanes ever since.
Brings back GREAT memories!
My first flight as a child was aboard a United Super DC8 from LAX TO Detroit 👍
That's pretty cool! thanks for sharing.
The first spool up you hear is the GPU starting up. That sound dips slightly as the air cuts over to the aircraft and is quickly followed by the howl of #3 engine's turbine section being pressurized to start. Upon reaching the correct RPMs, #3 ignites and you hear the RPMs increase following by the howls of initial pressurization of #2, then 4 and 1 in succession. The sound inside the cabin is muffled, but outside and up close, it's quite startlingly loud. I worked the ramp at JAX in the summers of 1971 and 72 with Delta Air Lines which operated both DC-8-51s and -61s equipped with these very similar P&W JT3D versions. In addition, DL operated a number of DC-8-33s acquired from Pan American and equipped with JT4A engines that did not start with the turbofan howl.
I cannot say I remember DC-8s howling on start up. However I do remember BAC1-11s doing it at London Gatwick Airport. Similar sound too. All the best.
I was going to say that. The 1-11 had a very distinctive starter ruclips.net/video/XI7BgtcFI0k/видео.html Fast forward to 02:25 to bring back wonderful memories!
One eleven starters sounded like distant motobikes thrashing at night!
Sounds like Gerry Andersons " Thunderbird " 2 .......great !!! ❤
In the late 1970s, early 1980s, United Airlines converted 30 of their stretch DC-8s to CFM-56 engines. Delta and Flying Tigers followed soon after. A variant of this engine eventually was used to power the very successful 737-300. There’s a bunch more history available on Wikipedia, so I’m not going to get too technical.
Anyway, I lived in Culver City, California in the early to mid-1980s. Culver City is located about five miles north of LAX. Every night during the summer, the marine layer rolls in off the beach and blankets pretty much all of the LA area. The noises from the airport carry quite well through the moist air. One thing you could hear clearly from my house over five miles away, was the sound of those old CFMs starting up. I can’t say that I recognize the sound of the engines featured in this video, but the bass sounding roar I heard from my house, was memorable.
Miss the DC8’s.
If you want to hear a turbine that “howls” the entire time, go and listen to the turbine on the Lama 315B helicopter. It sounds unlike any other turbine that I’ve heard. It’s a constant high pitched shrill sound and gets very fatiguing.
Braniff International’s Calder DC8’s (the ones with the wild paint jobs) used to fly over my house almost daily in the 70’s.
Thanks for this "new" compressed version - I have the orig video in my favorites since 15 years.
This brings me back to waving point in Kingston / Jamaica where Air Jamaica used to have these birds in their long haul fleet - Used to make the hairs stand up on my neck as a kid.😄
So this is where they got that 'Airwolf howl' for the Airwolf TV series! Sounds like Airwolf to me.....😂😂😂
Great video by the way.
I lived under the approach path into Buffalo, NY. UA and EA frequently flew the DC-8's in and out. To me, they were so ear piercing loud I labelled them "The Screecher!"
Lived in Lockport
A great aircraft! Made in the USA 🇺🇸. 😊Enjoyed cleaning the DC-8. At San Francisco International Airport. For the great BRANIFF INTERNATIONAL!
Back when jet flying was still epic in many ways!
As others have commented, I have vivid memories of this sound from the early 60s. First time I heard it, we were in SJU on vacation, on the way from MIA to JFK (dad worked to PA) and we got stuck in SJU trying to get to JFK for 2 days. Somehow we were in the clipper club, overlooking the ramp at SJU and Trans Caribs DC-8s came in/out all day from the gate below. I remember them starting up just below before departure to JFK. Note..after 2 days of sitting there and a very uncomfortable night at the hotel there, we gave up on JFK and went to PHL, drove to JFK to pick up the car and went home.. I am sure my parents were totally fed up with this (the joys of non-rev), but I thought it was totally cool.....
I want one of those for the roof of my car.
That's nice music by JT3D!
Loved the sound of DC-8's idling. A minor fifth. Always wondered why 707's didn't sound the same since they had the same engines.
I think they only put the he Air start on the DC8 because Boeing was to cheap to put it on the 707 they stuck with the truck Air start
@@ronparrish6666 I flew 707 variants in the USAF many moons ago. We were equipped with TF-33s (JT8-Ds) and could start from the APU, a Dash 8 (huffer cart), or cross start from another engine. It didn't sound anything like the DC-8 in this video, so there must be another explanation.
Let the good Times howl !!👍✈️
She was the original "Queen of the Skies" at United Air Lines...
Very like the Kuznetsov NK-86s on Ilyushin Il-86s. A very similar air starter
Air Canada had them we called it the Wolf mating call even the early RR engines had the air start
It was only on the engines powering early model DC-8s and those of the -61 not the 62,63 0r the 70 CFMs
The IL-86 makes a similar sound on startup.
DC8 -61 and DC8-62 !!!
Its more of a howl than a roar!
Good video...but I was expecting to see some smoke on startup and take-off.....was this the smokeless version of the JT3D?
Actually the JT3Ds smoked much less than the PW JT3C and JT4A turbojet engines. Seems like the JT3Ds got more "smokey" as the hours ticked up on the engines.
Those look and sound like JT4s, not the JT3Ds.
Only the 20s and 30s had the JT4, this is a 53 and those are JT3s.
Could those be JT4As and not JT3Ds?
Would explain alot......
Nope, they are JT3s.
I still miss the DC 8 in all versions. Never liked the 707 with its tiny windows
Low bypass turbines scream!
could be another j79 situation where the js the F-104s had had stater valves that produced a howling sound on both start and throttle up, or at flying at a certain throttle increment. the F-4 had the same engines, yet they didnt howl like the Starfighters did. *i think they were later models with the staters removed. same for the Delta Dart. maybe the JT3Ds used on the DC-8 were different models from the 707s?
If you want to hear more of that DC 8 start up howl, check out this excellent NFB ( National Film Board of Canada) documentary called Jet Pilot, about the flight operations day for an early 1960’s TCA ( Trans Canada Airlines) DC 8 crew. One of my favourite vintage aviation films.
ruclips.net/video/jOkg5qNLyao/видео.htmlsi=e3cPE6Tm2yNA2tJD
Great Doc on TCA. I really like how they put the jet spool up in there and the scenes of the original MBJ airport terminal. Thanks for that!
I love the asynchronous chorusing as each of the engines comes online...almost reminiscent of a propliner
@@jamrackmusic2198 whoooaaa… Thanks so much for that pointer!!! 😊🙏🏽