I keep a toaster oven in the garage for this kind of thing. great for tempering springs, powder coating bullets... a mismatched large floor tile is a good thing tho have for using torches on the work bench.
Great video! Very informative, and comes at a good time as I'm going to be getting a LPP pistol kit and have been doing research on bluing/browning the barrel.
I think your idea of heating up in the oven is brilliant, with a torch there is always some surface contamination due to the oxides from the flame, but the oven trick is the way to go, the lack of colour on the parts made from rolled steel is what I would expect from that material, but I don't think it will detract from the look of the rifle when it is all together, once the high edges start to get worn it will look good. You must have waited for your wife to go shopping before you took over the kitchen !
Would it help with the toeplate and small parts to obtain a quarter inch or thicker piece of plate from a scrapyard to act as a heat sink so the parts do not cool off quite so quickly ? Put in the oven with the bits on top ? Or would a ceramic from a building supply hold the heat better ?
Heh.. I love the clothes pin swab holder! So you stopped at around 600 grit on the emery cloth. How does the level of finish on the metal affect how it takes the browning (or bluing)? IE, would a smoother surface, like you took everything across a buffing wheel first, be harder to work with or otherwise affect the final color?
Dear Mike: I never did have good luck with the Birchwood Casey Brown, it didn't hold up well, and like your parts, the finish was inconsistent. I have had good luck with two other products, Laurel Mountain Forge Brown, and Mark Lee Express Brown. The prep is a little more difficult with these two, but still quite easy, and it is often necessary to do more than one application, but they are more durable and are more consistent, at least they are for me. Both will produce a deep Black if the part is boiled after application.
Donald Denison: Like you, I have never had consistent results from Birchwood products, and that is across their whole range, but some people use nothing else, I have a good stock of the Laurel Mountain Brown, and I find that gives good consistent results if you do your part right, I have also used the boiling trick, but for blue I find the slow rust method is best, if a lot longer to achieve good results, I also find the products from a London based company excellent, but they will not post internationally, so I can no longer get that.
For blue, the hot rust bluing method from Brownells , their Dichrophan parallels what Winchester used for most of their existence up until 1964; a hot rust blue. It is perhaps the best of the Rust process blues, more consistent, forgiving, and foolproof than Herter's Belgium Blue or even Mark Lee Express Blue For Brown though, I find Mark Lee Express Brown the best, if that is not available then Laurel Mountain Forge Brown is next in my opinion, others like some of the other less known brands, for me though the Birchwood Casey Plum Brown just is too inconsistent, success depends on what kind of steel is used, and other factors that are unknown, I don't even bother with it any longer.
Dear Mike: I know the bluing comment was not germane to the original video, but there was a comment from Englishman French that I cannot find now, wherein the subject bluing was brought up, so I shared my experience with products that worked best for me, I haven't used the product from Homer Dangler, but would like to try it, where might I find it for sale? I've decided that my next project will be another Lehman full stock flintlock rifle, this time with painted on tiger striping like the originals, this time in a larger caliber than 58 perhaps a 62 or 63, or even a 69 depending on the barrels available. I wish I could find the breech plug that Green River used in their rifles, it extended further up the barrel, creating a muzzle loading "chamber" of sorts and the flash hole plug is threaded INSIDE the breech plug/chamber INSIDE the plug, thus making the joint at the breech plug tend to tighten on firing rather than loosening, thus allowing heavier loads than otherwise, it contained about half a charge within the breech plug, for a 58 the old Green River kit and it's instructions recommended up to 165 grains of FFg or Fg, I tried it once, for a number of rounds, and it did produce superior accuracy, but that load with that rifle, and that buttplate killed on both ends, I reduced my maximum load to 125 gr of FFg, the old Curtiss&Harvey, it proved to be more than enough to take a medium size elk, so I have continued to use that rifle and that load. If you know of a source for the breech plug that Green River was using, I would appreciate learning of it. I think that I will set my build of a Replica of a Gibson J-45 Dreadnaught Guitar aside for now, and begin to get parts for the Lehman build, sometimes one needs to walk away from a project for a time to avoid ruining it, at least I do. I've been mucking around gunsmithing, both blackpowder and smokeless for 62 years now beginning with my fathers supervision back in 1954 when I was 12 years old, it has been a real journey and a passion of mine throughout each and every of the 62 years. I wish you luck and success with your build, don't forget , you'r not done until the job is perfect in every way, a high standard and hard to achieve, but worth all the bother. Keep them all in the Black. Sincerely Yours Don Denison
A good cheap method for browning is to degrease everything and wipe a coat of apple cider vinegar on it let it sit over night The next day it will look like you ruined it with a thick coat of light red rust. But simply boil the parts in water and card off the film and rust particles Underneath should be a red / brown barrel or parts You can also boil parts in vinegar to blue them Vinegar also removes rust if the parts are submerged in it Its rather universal....
Hi. You have been very well. These days I have browned with Plum Brown the barrel of my flintlock Fowler. Greetings from Spain.
Came out nice.. Interesting difference between the cast and stamped parts...
I keep a toaster oven in the garage for this kind of thing. great for tempering springs, powder coating bullets... a mismatched large floor tile is a good thing tho have for using torches on the work bench.
Great video! Very informative, and comes at a good time as I'm going to be getting a LPP pistol kit and have been doing research on bluing/browning the barrel.
Enjoying this series
I am in suspense!!!! I want to see the finished rifle!!!
I think your idea of heating up in the oven is brilliant, with a torch there is always some surface contamination due to the oxides from the flame, but the oven trick is the way to go, the lack of colour on the parts made from rolled steel is what I would expect from that material, but I don't think it will detract from the look of the rifle when it is all together, once the high edges start to get worn it will look good. You must have waited for your wife to go shopping before you took over the kitchen !
You did get some great color on most of it. Tells you what they scrimped on.
Would it help with the toeplate and small parts to obtain a quarter inch or thicker piece of plate from a scrapyard to act as a heat sink so the parts do not cool off quite so quickly ? Put in the oven with the bits on top ? Or would a ceramic from a building supply hold the heat better ?
Heh.. I love the clothes pin swab holder! So you stopped at around 600 grit on the emery cloth. How does the level of finish on the metal affect how it takes the browning (or bluing)? IE, would a smoother surface, like you took everything across a buffing wheel first, be harder to work with or otherwise affect the final color?
It doesn’t seem to matter. What matters I’d the chemical composition of the steel.
Always interesting! Thanks
A nice deep color on the but plate and trigger guard.
How did you buff these parts?
I bet you get a lot of eye rolls from the wife!! Really in our oven? haha, It's ok I do too :). Love your videos brother!!
Dear Mike:
I never did have good luck with the Birchwood Casey Brown, it didn't hold up well, and like your parts, the finish was inconsistent. I have had good luck with two other products, Laurel Mountain Forge Brown, and Mark Lee Express Brown.
The prep is a little more difficult with these two, but still quite easy, and it is often necessary to do more than one application, but they are more durable and are more consistent, at least they are for me. Both will produce a deep Black if the part is boiled after application.
Donald Denison: Like you, I have never had consistent results from Birchwood products, and that is across their whole range, but some people use nothing else, I have a good stock of the Laurel Mountain Brown, and I find that gives good consistent results if you do your part right, I have also used the boiling trick, but for blue I find the slow rust method is best, if a lot longer to achieve good results, I also find the products from a London based company excellent, but they will not post internationally, so I can no longer get that.
For blue, the hot rust bluing method from Brownells , their Dichrophan parallels what Winchester used for most of their existence up until 1964; a hot rust blue. It is perhaps the best of the Rust process blues, more consistent, forgiving, and foolproof than Herter's Belgium Blue or even Mark Lee Express Blue For Brown though, I find Mark Lee Express Brown the best, if that is not available then Laurel Mountain Forge Brown is next in my opinion, others like some of the other less known brands, for me though the Birchwood Casey Plum Brown just is too inconsistent, success depends on what kind of steel is used, and other factors that are unknown, I don't even bother with it any longer.
I also like the Brownell's rust bluing compound. It is what I use for blueing.
Dear Mike:
I know the bluing comment was not germane to the original video, but there was a comment from Englishman French that I cannot find now, wherein the subject bluing was brought up, so I shared my experience with products that worked best for me, I haven't used the product from Homer Dangler, but would like to try it, where might I find it for sale? I've decided that my next project will be another Lehman full stock flintlock rifle, this time with painted on tiger striping like the originals, this time in a larger caliber than 58 perhaps a 62 or 63, or even a 69 depending on the barrels available. I wish I could find the breech plug that Green River used in their rifles, it extended further up the barrel, creating a muzzle loading "chamber" of sorts and the flash hole plug is threaded INSIDE the breech plug/chamber INSIDE the plug, thus making the joint at the breech plug tend to tighten on firing rather than loosening, thus allowing heavier loads than otherwise, it contained about half a charge within the breech plug, for a 58 the old Green River kit and it's instructions recommended up to 165 grains of FFg or Fg, I tried it once, for a number of rounds, and it did produce superior accuracy, but that load with that rifle, and that buttplate killed on both ends, I reduced my maximum load to 125 gr of FFg, the old Curtiss&Harvey, it proved to be more than enough to take a medium size elk, so I have continued to use that rifle and that load. If you know of a source for the breech plug that Green River was using, I would appreciate learning of it. I think that I will set my build of a Replica of a Gibson J-45 Dreadnaught Guitar aside for now, and begin to get parts for the Lehman build, sometimes one needs to walk away from a project for a time to avoid ruining it, at least I do. I've been mucking around gunsmithing, both blackpowder and smokeless for 62 years now beginning with my fathers supervision back in 1954 when I was 12 years old, it has been a real journey and a passion of mine throughout each and every of the 62 years. I wish you luck and success with your build, don't forget , you'r not done until the job is perfect in every way, a high standard and hard to achieve, but worth all the bother. Keep them all in the Black.
Sincerely Yours
Don Denison
Donald Denison I get it from Muzzleloaders Builders Supply
A good cheap method for browning is to degrease everything and wipe a coat of apple cider vinegar on it let it sit over night
The next day it will look like you ruined it with a thick coat of light red rust.
But simply boil the parts in water and card off the film and rust particles
Underneath should be a red / brown barrel or parts
You can also boil parts in vinegar to blue them
Vinegar also removes rust if the parts are submerged in it
Its rather universal....
Interesting video.
Why did you chose Bichwood Casey's plum brown over Mark Lee's Express Brown #2 ? Why not use a heat gun ?
Vengenace Early I'm familiar with it.used it for years. Haven't tried a heat gun.
I was just curious why you were using the plum brown. Not that there is anything wrong with it.
nice work
Mike, are you still reviewing firearms for Guns of the Old West?
Doublecanister4thUSArty Yup. I think I have two articles in the issue that's out now.