Chinese won't retaliate, they're actually egging on the Western brands to invest in China. Chinese market on the other hand is rapidly moving to EVs, there's money to be made if you have a good product, Tesla is still selling loads in China.
It sounds extreme, but China's EV market is growing incredibly fast. Maybe they’re saying traditional automakers can’t keep up with the shift to electric?
I wonder if it’s more about government policies. China heavily supports local EV companies, and legacy automakers might struggle with regulations and competition.
I will not be even remotely surprised if they (the legacy manufacturers) all go under. Although I won’t shed a tear with many of them, (VW and Toyota for instance), this is really a nightmare scenario. We need worldwide car manufacturers, and we need competition.
I do, and I intent to continue to use them until at least 10 years have passed so I can see the results of people using EVs. Only then I will decide if I buy and EV or not. Another thing if an EV can't last 15 years of usage without major and costly repairs then it's no good for me. And 15 years is already a big bonus for the factories.
I’m out in China for work this week. A massive shift in the brands I see on the roads since when I was last here 9 year ago. BYD are everywhere, Nio, Xpeng, Zeekr, Dongfeng make up the rest. Think I’ve seen one, possibly 2, VWs
Don’t forget that General Motors actually went through bankruptcy less than 20 years ago. That wiped out shareholders, but didn’t really affect car owners.
The problem for big 3: .no battery patent and production capability. Byd, for eg, has been making battery for laptop ages. .no supply chain. .Donald Trump. ( even the european will be hating american product next 4 yrs)
My lab in a US university purchased a Ford Mach-e, and my chinese lab colleague who uses that vehicle for research said that car is trash compared to the Chinese EVs
My brother in law in China recently bought a brand new gas powered Honda CRV for about half price. He was looking to go electric, but this offer was just too hard to resist.
Reducing sale doesn't mean no sale. The overall production will fall sharply. To promote sale, they are to reduce price on the existing produced vehicles. But they are taking a big loss on them. Producing ICE will become more expensive to make as the economy of scale works backward; low volume equal higher components and parts, etc. This is what many do not understand, the dominos affect.
Japanese brands are in a chain of cannibalization. At the bottom, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Suzuki are out. Mazda is in danger. In the middle, Honda and Nissan have lost almost half of their annual sales. At the top, Toyota manages to maintain sales, but faces greater pressure.
Installing solar panels and buying a Chinese EV car is the way to go for Australians. You can decrease your electricity bills and no longer pay for petrol.
sad truth is, they know that too.. and many have already planning for benefiting from that... how to repurpose those assets (buildings, workers most of them highly skilled, how to repurpose the machinery).. only the people who hold their bonds and loans will get hurt.
One of the main reason Chinese EV sales are booming is because of the low electricity price, if your charge your EV in late night, the price is about 0.3 RMB per kW/h ($ 4 cents per kW/h), so why should they buy ICE cars? The fuel cost and maintenance fee in 10 years is enough to buy a new EV with next gen tech.
The more likely scenario is bailout plus mergers. Germany and Japan are both rich enough to bailout their car companies but they need to build state champions who are willing to do real R&D.
The Audi factory in Brussels is not a flagship factory. It's very modern, but relatively small and is mostly an assembly line. I live in Brussels, and yes it's going to affect a lot of people associated with it, but in the big picture it makes sense to close this one...
The legacy auto makers were manufacturing and selling vehicles inside the Chinese market for decades, how were they "unaware" of the Chinese EV transition? More perplexing is how could they ignore the EV sucess/progress of Tesla and BYD. I cannot help but think of the the children's fable the "Tortis & the Hare".
The same was said when tractors arrived on farms “what will all the farm hands do???”…. We adapt, that’s why humans are the most successful species on earth….
I like BYD and I’m about to buy my first BYD seal - but I think they overdo the production times and branding - its hard to keep track of all the different variations and kinda cheapens what is a really good start for the brand…
When the tyrannical Chinese government subsidizes domestic brands with hundreds of billions of dollars and heavily regulates and discriminates against foreign companies, those foreign companies will have to close down. That is not a function of the market; it is a function of the government.
I bet they invested in Hyderogen vehicles thinking "uuhh what do these Chinese know aabout innovation, i bet they will copy us when we are successful" forgeting how fast China caught up to most industrial tech. CEOs are supposed to have foresight and an eye for recognising rivals in their teens but dominating the markets and being champion have made western countries complecent.. arrogance, hubris, underestimation and looking down on rising countries is the norm among western countries. You shouldnt have signed tech-transfer contracts for cheap labour and 1.3billion people market if you were going to accuse them of theft when they do it better
actually WE ALL should be worried as the "home" countries will bend over backwards to KEEP there "home team" alive and BLOCK out Chinese EV cars delaying the EV transition look at the tariffs in Europe and America making Chinese EVs a hard sell what do you think will happen once those brands actually get in trouble I would not be surprised if emissions standards get rolled back allowing MORE ICE vehicle sales and increased tariffs on Chinese EVs and parts plus MASSIVE tax bailouts to KEEP them alive so the top polluting regions will SLOW DOWN the transition
Never underestimate the er, um, (put a less judgemental word here) of the public. Niche players will survive addressing a market, it can be seen in the UK where the brand MG sells. It may be Chinese cars, but people are nostalgic about MG. Land speed records, their little sports cars, niche name etc. But SAIC made it work. And there are others that Stellantis will sell at their peril: Singer, Hillman, Sunbeam-Talbot, Commer, Carrier, Humber &/or Roots. Better to badge Chinese cars IMHO. Like Renault/Dace are
Smaller legacy Asian manufacturers such as Nissan and especially Mazda should seriously consider forming partnerships with Chinese EV manufacturers if the expect to survive. U.S. legacy automakers are already making plans thru their battery purchase partnerships and pretty soon it will be every man for himself!!
The UAW got a very generous contract this cycle. Which won't help to keep US auto prices down. The financial squeeze on American consumers is stunning. Housing has skyrocketed, inflation took off resulting in many corporations making record profits. Yet other corporations are hurting. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out. But the US better start focusing on helping its people to the expense of large corporate profits, rich oligarchs, and the military industrial complex if/as necessary if it wants to have a hope of somewhat keeping up with China's trajectory.
@@Gunter_Custom doubt there is ANY chance the white house will LET THAT happen just look at this election cycle everyone is chasing "union" votes and already 100% tariffs plus pressure on Mexico and Canada to block Chinese EVS Canada already done it and the USA is passing a LAW right now making ANY electronics in a connected OR autonomous car CAN NOT have ANY Chinese software OR be sourced from China OR a CHINESE company Washington is going to throw EVERYTHING at keeping China DOWN and there home team alive
Chinese are extremely competitive and innovative, by the time western automakers figure out their own battery technology, the Chinese automakers may have moved on to hydrogen or other better tech.
Won't take that long. China is going to hit 60% EV sales this year. Next year it will be weird if they didn't hit 75%-85%. Then year after that, 90%-95%. End of legacy auto in China.
And once they reach the top in China they will exporta lotof EV to other countries. Their "invasion" will be unstopable. The US and the EU lost a war before they aknowledge there was a technological war going on.
No chance SMDH of that! China is at 44% nev market share ytd! Right on schedule with their goals. Might hit 55% Or more nevs to end 2025? It'll be 2028-30 over there before nevs are 100% market share. Us will hit 65-80% Nev share based on ira investments in evs&cells by then. pure ice globally imo will be unprofitable to make by 2028 or sooner!
The problem with the legacy car makers is that most of their products run on either petrol or diesel.. if they concentrated on electric vehicles, we would never have the Zero Emissions economy that we all need!!
@@SigFigNewton i think his bias is very logical and driven by best practice. Once understood, enthusiasm for electrification is hard to resist. Only those with a vested interested and angry misled sheep looking for a fight, have trouble seeing the positives..i just want more facts and less videos he has to fill. Quality over quantity.
@@beeswaxlover yeah he seems to have found that he earns more from RUclips when he makes frequent easy to make videos rather than occasional thoroughly researched videos
The Chinese are big on the battery swap stations like Evogo (Not to be confused with EVgo) maybe there has been a fallout over battery quickswap technology? But also think about it you can make a car in a place like China with lower wages and lower cost of living. Or you can make the car in a place with a higher cost of living and higher wages like the US or Germany but then try and sell that same car to the Chinese. You’re in a limited market of wealthy people who can afford to import those cars.
The other thing is they are probably worried about digital espionage through foreign brands. The same way that the UK and US are weary about Huawei and TikTok.
China has required foreign companies to enter into 50/50 joint ventures with local partners to operate in the country for many years. This requirement was put in place to protect Chinas domestic industry and help it compete with foreign companies. Now Tesla is teaching China to build nice electric cars. To stay at the forefront China will have to do their own research.
BYD and CATL owns the most patents in the battery technology. Their own research is done. Tesla doesn´t teach the Chinese how to produce the cars. There are many German engineers and designers at the Chinese companies. When you look at all of the Chinese brands these are famous people from BMW, VW, Audi and Lamborghini. For example the Chief designer from BYD is Wolfgang Egger, he is pretty famous in the car industry. NIO is designed in Munich. Xiaomi SU7 is designed by Chris Bangle from an American who works for BMW before. Li Auto is also from someone from Audi before.
@@tvl6347 I am referring to Tesla is helping China make "electric cars". Tesla has shown China how to up their game in EV manufacturing. China was making B class EVs for a long time. Also I am talking about the research coming. The research papers from the universities and companies. There are a lot of joint ventures in research. It is literally impossible for China to have domestic only research and stay at the forefront in the next 25 years competing with the reset of the whole world. There has been a lot of made up research papers coming out of China lately. Together with their business practices makes for a unfair playing field. The business and universities' will start to not have joint ventures with China if they continue. Tesla has just had a Chinese guy come to the US to run a factory here. Elon has mentioned the Chinese work ethic. Tesla has helped China's auto industry in a number of ways, including: Creating a supply chain Tesla's Shanghai Gigafactory works with local suppliers to make parts and batteries, which has helped Chinese companies compete with Western and Japanese suppliers. Tesla has also helped suppliers develop technologies that they can then sell to other Chinese EV manufacturers. Training talent Tesla has trained a generation of talent in China. Competing with traditional manufacturers Tesla's cost-efficient production and in-house manufacturing has forced traditional manufacturers to improve their offerings for Chinese consumers. Increasing the variety of electric vehicles Tesla's entry into the Chinese market has increased the variety of electric vehicles available to consumers. Helping the Chinese government Tesla's presence in China has helped jump-start the country's EV sector, which was a goal of Chinese leaders. The Chinese government has provided Tesla with loans, tax benefits, and subsidies in return for Tesla working with local suppliers.
When the tyrannical Chinese government subsidizes domestic brands with hundreds of billions of dollars and heavily regulates and discriminates against foreign companies, those foreign companies will have to close down. That is not a function of the market; it is a function of the government.
Please buy my massive Company! It made old cars really well. Just a small matter of billions in debts and nothing anyone wants to buy are we able to be build any more. Roll up roll up buyers... Buyers? ... Please!
BMW in China just offered deeper discounts on their electric models. That’s gonna hurt profits even more. I wouldn’t buy any stocks of Audi , Porsche, Mercedes or BMW - it’s going to be a bloodbath.
@@xXdnerstxleXx In China , second hand cars from these 4 automakers are very cheap , esp large engines. And prices are dropping US1.5-2k every month. So in 6 mth they lose US10K. Second hand car lots are full of them. Very tempting but you can’t resell them without losing 40-60% value.
@@robertwang7825 Yeah, China is in an insane Deflation, the bubble burst thanks to their insane covid mandates. Same thing is going to happen in the west when our everything bubble also bursts. I'll give it another year. I think the car market in China is going to stabelize probably earlier next year. I'd love to buy cheap chinese cars and export it over here. I live in Germany, if I get the car for personal use I can get around a lot of the restrictions.
The executives who make millions will in the next 5 years will be just fine, so they don't care. Bonuses and executive golden parachutes will take care of them.
The only way they can survive is to ask their govts to block the Chinese cars import and close their domestic markets, then ask their govt to subsidise them (in addition to the money that were given already). In that cases they may survive for another few years...
VW will not leave China as it is the training ground for their engineers to go back to Germany and the future manufacturing ground for their vehicles to export to other countries that is why the US is not pleased.
@@jasonriddell Tariffs in Europe is not problem as Hungary already has EV production in place but it is critical for VW to have the best Production Facility so that it can survive. EU can Charge as much Tariffs as they want as it is the Importer pay the Tariffs and the costs will pass to Consumers as long as the Consumers think that they are rich enough and willing to pay to their Governments.
If crap hits the fan in the Israel-Iran drama, expect China and the rest of ASEAN and Australia to go full electric in a short period of time even if it was against US pressure, South Korea and Japan on the other hand have so much pride that they'd end up doing economic harakiri by not adopting Chinese EVs.
There is a world outside China, and whilst the population of China is in decline, most of the global population growth is expected to take place in South-East Asia and Africa. Countries whose citizens are too poor to afford EVs, and that don't have the electrical supply infrastructure to support them even if they could. In these regions, Toyota, Hyundai, etc will continue to reign supreme
@@DavidWiliams-r1g Seriously if I had to bet, I would say Nissan first. Stellantis is a bunch of automakers owned by a parent company, so I think they'll sell off what they can, and shrink by a lot. I sure wouldn't buy stock in either one though!
@@deepseer Sounds reasonable, but Stellantis's unprofitable stuff will still probably disappear, and the remaining parts will probably be under mostly Chinese control. Not that I'm putting down China. They had to compete to get to where they are.
There’s a way out, if VW group or GM buy Tesla Car production they might stay in Business … I don’t know if the Chinese Electric Cars will last as long as Teslas do reliably. I remember the Great Wall Experience, my lady friend could manage to keep her car running well but many were wearing out twice as fast as Mitsubishi vehicles … Mechanic friends always steered me away from Chinese Cars, I don’t know how they would make their Electric cars as good as European and Two or three Americans…
There are many taxis in China from BYD are still running more than 400.000 km. The stock price from Tesla is so high, that the legacy manufacturer can´t buy Tesla, instead Tesla could buy all of them together.
Is economy of scale a thing of the past ? I hope so. Motor cars by the million, olive groves by the hectare, everyday utensils identical world.wide ? Where is the appreciation of beauty ? We no longer resonate. A pile of bricks, an unmade bed, is art. We have truly lost the plot. A magnificent and magical world surrounds and envelopes us ... Wait, I´m just checking my emails.
The electric vehicle made in Europe should be forced DOWN in price so that their vehicles get sold rather than stuck in the showroom because prices are too high for most people to afford!!
@@jasonriddell The problem is that politicians are all the same all over the world!! They SAY one thing and then do something totally different!! How does the Dutch bird, whatever her name is, do something as crass and stupid as to put the price of a Chinese electric vehicle up without forcing the local companies to DROP THEIR PRICES?!!!!
Chinese car's interiors are a head above the rest, got used to my BYD and when I ride a Japanese car, I feel like I'm riding a styro TV box, really outdated designs and with their advanced aging population, expect their innovation, creativity and design skills to further deteriorate! Not to mention the declining quality of brands like Toyota, if China can be more aggressive with marketing and improve durability even more, they can dominate the world especially the global south.
Not just in China... try to look at Asia countries. Hyundai is being push out from the Asia market by Chinese brands. I bet Hyundai be the 1st to declare bankrupt.
Not just in China in South East Asia, China cars manufacture are rapidly taking market share in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Phillipines, Singapore, Cambodia...
5 yrs? They are already bleeding money now, and they want to sustain 5 yrs of money loosing while catching up battery technology? Thats a whole lot of debt to accumulate. 10 billion a company, means 30 - 40 billions total debt. Can US and german economy sustain that much new debtnin single industry? This is before loosing asean, latam, emea market. Legacy automaker cannonly survive under protection and massive new debt.
Volkswagen has one big advantage: they are already in the middle of their electrification. and the things that where not that great have been mostly fixed. the ID.7 now sells very well. VW has another advantage: they have a better economy of scale regarding ICE. that means they still can make good profits with ICE even when the ICE market is going down to 20%. they have the same four cylinder engines in so many cars from Skoda, Seat, Audi and VW itself. that means that they still make profits two years longer with ICE than the smaller competition when it still might be difficult to make profits. we already heard that stellantis is struggling with fiat and maserati. the fiat 500e is a very nice car but is 5000€ overpriced. and maserati and alfa romeo do not have anything good in the EV sector. it is not going well. the same in japan, they are sleeping very very well and will lose 80% in the whole world before they get their shit together and can keep up. tesla and other pure EV manufacturers will pick up their shares.
Why are there millions of unsold EVs parked around China .You cannot trust sales figures from China .There are many Electric car companies in China witch many will Fail .Many Legacy car brands will leave China where EVs will remain popular for years to come and could even carry on selling.The problem for EVs is they are getting unpopular in Many countries and people are not buying them it’s slowing down in a big way.Legacy car makers will probably get smaller but will start making cars that people want in there own markets .Legislations will change in Europe and the US when it comes to ICE engines things will get better for them after that as the popularity of EV is dropping in the West .
I agree with your analysis Viking, but at the same time why is GM's stock peaking at the moment? Earnings report next week... I understand that GM is cash-rich, and may buy back shares. Will it be enough to save them?
All newer ICE since 2010 are rubbish apart from Toyota and Lexus. Living in Southern Africa we'll stick to our tried and tested older diesel Toyotas whilst you lot enjoy your hazardous EVs
Living inland Australia I sold the Landcruiser and got a Tesla Model S with a 1.85 t towbar. 10 years and 400.000km later it still is the best and far cheapest vehicle to run I have ever owned.
Speak for yourself. I don't want a "subscription" to use my car on top of all the others costs, additional subs to use the battery I PAID for, even MORE if I want my seat HEATED in the winter. A cheap Chinese EV that goes from A-to-B and doesn't make Exxon richer sounds like a great idea, MY life isn't wrapped up in cars - not for 25+ years now.
Now China will benefit from Chinese cheap labor not Germany or US car makers. Tech stagnation will end legacy auto. Too bad the economies /workers of Germany, Japan, US will suffer because of poor greedy egotistical leadership. Jeannine
5 years? That would be too slow considering the speed of the current development. It will be there years or less when they need to cut the losses or face collapse.
Yes end of 2026 or sooner is my swag! Check their debt loads, average worker age, average factory age, Altman z scores and bond ratings etc. By 2028 imo none will be left standing as is today. Mergers are gonns be forced, bailouts for some companies and bankruptcy for others are gonna happen. Sad thing is they've known since 2019 the c02 and stricter global vehicle emissions we're coming by 2025. And did nothing to prepare.
man you are putting out so many videos that the quality is really affected. At 0:40 you say "Have a look at this chart" and there's no chart to look at. This happens a lot in your videos where you are talking about some stats and show stock footage instead of the actual data
I dont have any sympathy for the legacy car manufacturers because they have spent too long trying to ignore EVs which is causing much of the negative impact.
5:30 The fall will continue unless they start licking President Xi's boot, turn him into 財神 (a Chinese money deity) and worship him piously day in day out. 🤣😂
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Yep, the world is just not Europe and US. Ford, GM and VW seem to forget that.
VW is doing well. not great but also not bad compared to others like fiat, maserati, alfa romeo and some japanese brands.
And Tesla needs to realise that the world isn't just China and California.
5 years is an optimistic prediction, I predicted 3 years, 2 if the Chinese government decide to retaliate for the EU tariff.🤣
Chinese won't retaliate, they're actually egging on the Western brands to invest in China. Chinese market on the other hand is rapidly moving to EVs, there's money to be made if you have a good product, Tesla is still selling loads in China.
they dont need to retaliate, Chinese people are choosing to buy better built and lower cost Chinese cars
Absolutely. Boss of BYD called on the patriotic people and car makers of China to "Destroy the Legends".
And what size crystal ball did you consult for your “prediction”…😅
Wow, that’s a bold prediction. Do they really think no legacy automaker can survive in China for that long?
It sounds extreme, but China's EV market is growing incredibly fast. Maybe they’re saying traditional automakers can’t keep up with the shift to electric?
I wonder if it’s more about government policies. China heavily supports local EV companies, and legacy automakers might struggle with regulations and competition.
That’s true. Chinese manufacturers like BYD and Nio are gaining so much ground, and they’re focused purely on EVs.
I think legacy automakers could adapt if they commit to EVs, but 5 years isn’t much time to make that kind of transition.
It might also be about supply chains. If they can’t secure battery supplies in China, they could be at a big disadvantage compared to local companies
I will not be even remotely surprised if they (the legacy manufacturers) all go under. Although I won’t shed a tear with many of them, (VW and Toyota for instance), this is really a nightmare scenario. We need worldwide car manufacturers, and we need competition.
THE LEGACY AUTO MAKERS CANNOT COMPETE WITH CHIN AND TESLA; this is why the EU and the US are imposing tariffs on Chinese EVs 👈🏾
ICE cars are like typewriters. Superb design,well built, long lasting and durable. Know anybody who still uses one?
have a friend whose family had sold typewriters for 3 generations, finally close shop at his generation
@@godzillamothra5983 sorry to hear that but the world moves on whether we like it or not
I do, and I intent to continue to use them until at least 10 years have passed so I can see the results of people using EVs. Only then I will decide if I buy and EV or not. Another thing if an EV can't last 15 years of usage without major and costly repairs then it's no good for me. And 15 years is already a big bonus for the factories.
@@alanc457 true, clinging onto past will only harm yourself. My friend now in other trade too.
have you actually owned an ICE vehicle? they dont match your description.
I’m out in China for work this week. A massive shift in the brands I see on the roads since when I was last here 9 year ago. BYD are everywhere, Nio, Xpeng, Zeekr, Dongfeng make up the rest. Think I’ve seen one, possibly 2, VWs
Don’t forget that General Motors actually went through bankruptcy less than 20 years ago. That wiped out shareholders, but didn’t really affect car owners.
I think the big 3 are in trouble in the US also. Their ICE vehicles are really expensive and they are having trouble producing EVs that people want.
The problem for big 3:
.no battery patent and production capability. Byd, for eg, has been making battery for laptop ages.
.no supply chain.
.Donald Trump. ( even the european will be hating american product next 4 yrs)
@@bricolagefantasy7291 Legacy automakers are like cargo ships. It takes forever for one to make a turn.
My lab in a US university purchased a Ford Mach-e, and my chinese lab colleague who uses that vehicle for research said that car is trash compared to the Chinese EVs
In the U.S., the EV market is still rather limited, outside of Tesla.
@@bricolagefantasy7291 dumb 😅
I toured China for 2 weeks recently. Most of the new cars are chinese brands and more than half are evs. I saw the future like it or not.
China goes Electric. Cheap Clean Solar and Wind produced in China for Cheap Electric Cars produced in China. Oil Prices down Worldwide. ❤👍
You have no clue on what you're talking about
@Alex-hb7im Oil Down. China needs no Oil for Electric Cars. Simple. You need no Clue 👍😅
My brother in law in China recently bought a brand new gas powered Honda CRV for about half price. He was looking to go electric, but this offer was just too hard to resist.
Reducing sale doesn't mean no sale. The overall production will fall sharply. To promote sale, they are to reduce price on the existing produced vehicles. But they are taking a big loss on them. Producing ICE will become more expensive to make as the economy of scale works backward; low volume equal higher components and parts, etc. This is what many do not understand, the dominos affect.
Japanese brands are in a chain of cannibalization. At the bottom, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Suzuki are out. Mazda is in danger. In the middle, Honda and Nissan have lost almost half of their annual sales. At the top, Toyota manages to maintain sales, but faces greater pressure.
Half the price, this means the Japs are in deep sheet.
Installing solar panels and buying a Chinese EV car is the way to go for Australians. You can decrease your electricity bills and no longer pay for petrol.
Che dire, hai ragione! Senza se e senza ma!
sad truth is, they know that too.. and many have already planning for benefiting from that... how to repurpose those assets (buildings, workers most of them highly skilled, how to repurpose the machinery).. only the people who hold their bonds and loans will get hurt.
One of the main reason Chinese EV sales are booming is because of the low electricity price, if your charge your EV in late night, the price is about 0.3 RMB per kW/h ($ 4 cents per kW/h), so why should they buy ICE cars? The fuel cost and maintenance fee in 10 years is enough to buy a new EV with next gen tech.
The more likely scenario is bailout plus mergers. Germany and Japan are both rich enough to bailout their car companies but they need to build state champions who are willing to do real R&D.
Promise?
Thanks
You're welcome!
The Audi factory in Brussels is not a flagship factory. It's very modern, but relatively small and is mostly an assembly line. I live in Brussels, and yes it's going to affect a lot of people associated with it, but in the big picture it makes sense to close this one...
The legacy auto makers were manufacturing and selling vehicles inside the Chinese market for decades, how were they "unaware" of the Chinese EV transition? More perplexing is how could they ignore the EV sucess/progress of Tesla and BYD. I cannot help but think of the the children's fable the "Tortis & the Hare".
There was me thinking that WE were supposed to exploit the Chinese. What happened ?. 🤔
Musk already said the top 9 of the top 10 car companies will be Chinese (and Tesla)
No..no..no..EVs are a fad..I heard it from plenty of media sources whose biggest advertisers are legacy automakers. Why would they mislead people.
True, but a few listened, and if they listened they did not took any action.
Hilarious he thinks tesla will compete haha, what junk sold by the single dorkiest conman
So if everybody becomes unemployed...who is going to buy them?
The same was said when tractors arrived on farms “what will all the farm hands do???”…. We adapt, that’s why humans are the most successful species on earth….
They had it coming
BYD is building new models in months while US domestics take years.
Great when you don’t have unions and Bean counters in management … big Advantage China. They would be better if they were more Honest !
I like BYD and I’m about to buy my first BYD seal - but I think they overdo the production times and branding - its hard to keep track of all the different variations and kinda cheapens what is a really good start for the brand…
Let's see how long they last
I agree. Same for all (but Tesla) US manufacturer will also go bankrupt - starting with GM.
Nio is the best EV company!🚀🚀🚀
What is the range of the Chinese electric cars,
It may be a blood bath but open market competition is good for consumers. Better than being skinned by car makers in America n Europe😂😂
Governments despise consumers
Lobbyists have asked for unprecedentedly enormous import taxes. We’ll go with that.
Yep…buy Chinese…..we Europeans don’t get a f@uck of it
Not good if you have tariffs
When the tyrannical Chinese government subsidizes domestic brands with hundreds of billions of dollars and heavily regulates and discriminates against foreign companies, those foreign companies will have to close down. That is not a function of the market; it is a function of the government.
I bet they invested in Hyderogen vehicles thinking "uuhh what do these Chinese know aabout innovation, i bet they will copy us when we are successful" forgeting how fast China caught up to most industrial tech. CEOs are supposed to have foresight and an eye for recognising rivals in their teens but dominating the markets and being champion have made western countries complecent.. arrogance, hubris, underestimation and looking down on rising countries is the norm among western countries. You shouldnt have signed tech-transfer contracts for cheap labour and 1.3billion people market if you were going to accuse them of theft when they do it better
It's ok ... China is backward ..not creative and always l copy ..I hope they keep believing
Thumbnail makes it look like you’re shedding a tear. I somehow suspect that’s not the case. 😂
I say serves them right. No f***ks given.
More like a crocodile’s tear :-)
actually WE ALL should be worried as the "home" countries will bend over backwards to KEEP there "home team" alive and BLOCK out Chinese EV cars delaying the EV transition
look at the tariffs in Europe and America making Chinese EVs a hard sell
what do you think will happen once those brands actually get in trouble
I would not be surprised if emissions standards get rolled back allowing MORE ICE vehicle sales and increased tariffs on Chinese EVs and parts plus MASSIVE tax bailouts to KEEP them alive
so the top polluting regions will SLOW DOWN the transition
VWs answer are 6 new models, not for the group, for the brand.
Never underestimate the er, um, (put a less judgemental word here) of the public. Niche players will survive addressing a market, it can be seen in the UK where the brand MG sells. It may be Chinese cars, but people are nostalgic about MG. Land speed records, their little sports cars, niche name etc. But SAIC made it work. And there are others that Stellantis will sell at their peril: Singer, Hillman, Sunbeam-Talbot, Commer, Carrier, Humber &/or Roots. Better to badge Chinese cars IMHO. Like Renault/Dace are
Smaller legacy Asian manufacturers such as Nissan and especially Mazda should seriously consider forming partnerships with Chinese EV manufacturers if the expect to survive. U.S. legacy automakers are already making plans thru their battery purchase partnerships and pretty soon it will be every man for himself!!
Can the statement of "over capacity" slowdown that 5 years prediction?
The UAW got a very generous contract this cycle. Which won't help to keep US auto prices down. The financial squeeze on American consumers is stunning. Housing has skyrocketed, inflation took off resulting in many corporations making record profits. Yet other corporations are hurting. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out. But the US better start focusing on helping its people to the expense of large corporate profits, rich oligarchs, and the military industrial complex if/as necessary if it wants to have a hope of somewhat keeping up with China's trajectory.
The UAW will be gone in 5 years when all the legacys are out of business..😂
@@Gunter_Custom doubt there is ANY chance the white house will LET THAT happen just look at this election cycle everyone is chasing "union" votes and already 100% tariffs plus pressure on Mexico and Canada to block Chinese EVS Canada already done it and the USA is passing a LAW right now making ANY electronics in a connected OR autonomous car CAN NOT have ANY Chinese software OR be sourced from China OR a CHINESE company
Washington is going to throw EVERYTHING at keeping China DOWN and there home team alive
Chinese are extremely competitive and innovative, by the time western automakers figure out their own battery technology, the Chinese automakers may have moved on to hydrogen or other better tech.
VW should sell the Cupra and Skoda brands.
Let me tell you something Sam. Toyota and VW are not going anywhere.
I think however Tesla are in big trouble.
Toyota debt: 192,000,000,000 $
VW debt : 110,000,000,000 $
Build a factory to make pretzels? A pretzel-maker might buy it. Build a factory to make AUDIs…
Won't take that long.
China is going to hit 60% EV sales this year. Next year it will be weird if they didn't hit 75%-85%. Then year after that, 90%-95%. End of legacy auto in China.
Legacy auto has essentially already ended in China as there is no way any of these businesses are viable with a 30% or 50% drop in sale revenues.
China hoping for a free market. Western countries with auto industries not allowing that.
Funny thing is I’ve read enough that I’m not surprised.
And once they reach the top in China they will exporta lotof EV to other countries. Their "invasion" will be unstopable. The US and the EU lost a war before they aknowledge there was a technological war going on.
No chance SMDH of that!
China is at 44% nev market share ytd!
Right on schedule with their goals.
Might hit 55% Or more nevs to end 2025?
It'll be 2028-30 over there before nevs are 100% market share. Us will hit 65-80% Nev share based on ira investments in evs&cells by then. pure ice globally imo will be unprofitable to make by 2028 or sooner!
Yes. True. Next, China will target Electronic planes. Replacing traditional fuel planes with Electric and battery.
Does this mean it's game over?
The problem with the legacy car makers is that most of their products run on either petrol or diesel.. if they concentrated on electric vehicles, we would never have the Zero Emissions economy that we all need!!
Analysts say - experts say - observers say - commentators say - influencers say - bloggers say - my cat says -
If that happens then you can be sure tariffs will block all sales for Chinese cars in the west
Good luck with that 😂
When you put your profit to stock buyback rather than R&D then you are doomed your self
I much prefer your hard reports and numbers as they happen. We can do our own analysis and projections. Just be a journo or bias will creep in.
His bias is super pro EV pro solar. Just note that and listen.
Just as most media in the US has a strong anti EV pro fossil fuel industry bias
@@SigFigNewton i think his bias is very logical and driven by best practice. Once understood, enthusiasm for electrification is hard to resist. Only those with a vested interested and angry misled sheep looking for a fight, have trouble seeing the positives..i just want more facts and less videos he has to fill. Quality over quantity.
@@beeswaxlover yeah he seems to have found that he earns more from RUclips when he makes frequent easy to make videos rather than occasional thoroughly researched videos
The Chinese are big on the battery swap stations like Evogo (Not to be confused with EVgo) maybe there has been a fallout over battery quickswap technology?
But also think about it you can make a car in a place like China with lower wages and lower cost of living. Or you can make the car in a place with a higher cost of living and higher wages like the US or Germany but then try and sell that same car to the Chinese. You’re in a limited market of wealthy people who can afford to import those cars.
The other thing is they are probably worried about digital espionage through foreign brands. The same way that the UK and US are weary about Huawei and TikTok.
And the Chinese could be getting better at making cars let’s just admit that fact 😂
💀Legacy auto & Fossil fuels💀
Kodak! Nokia! Blockbuster! MySpace! Taxis! Travel agencies! B&M!
China has required foreign companies to enter into 50/50 joint ventures with local partners to operate in the country for many years. This requirement was put in place to protect Chinas domestic industry and help it compete with foreign companies. Now Tesla is teaching China to build nice electric cars. To stay at the forefront China will have to do their own research.
BYD and CATL owns the most patents in the battery technology. Their own research is done. Tesla doesn´t teach the Chinese how to produce the cars. There are many German engineers and designers at the Chinese companies. When you look at all of the Chinese brands these are famous people from BMW, VW, Audi and Lamborghini. For example the Chief designer from BYD is Wolfgang Egger, he is pretty famous in the car industry. NIO is designed in Munich. Xiaomi SU7 is designed by Chris Bangle from an American who works for BMW before. Li Auto is also from someone from Audi before.
@@tvl6347 I am referring to Tesla is helping China make "electric cars". Tesla has shown China how to up their game in EV manufacturing. China was making B class EVs for a long time. Also I am talking about the research coming. The research papers from the universities and companies. There are a lot of joint ventures in research. It is literally impossible for China to have domestic only research and stay at the forefront in the next 25 years competing with the reset of the whole world. There has been a lot of made up research papers coming out of China lately. Together with their business practices makes for a unfair playing field. The business and universities' will start to not have joint ventures with China if they continue. Tesla has just had a Chinese guy come to the US to run a factory here. Elon has mentioned the Chinese work ethic.
Tesla has helped China's auto industry in a number of ways, including:
Creating a supply chain
Tesla's Shanghai Gigafactory works with local suppliers to make parts and batteries, which has helped Chinese companies compete with Western and Japanese suppliers. Tesla has also helped suppliers develop technologies that they can then sell to other Chinese EV manufacturers.
Training talent
Tesla has trained a generation of talent in China.
Competing with traditional manufacturers
Tesla's cost-efficient production and in-house manufacturing has forced traditional manufacturers to improve their offerings for Chinese consumers.
Increasing the variety of electric vehicles
Tesla's entry into the Chinese market has increased the variety of electric vehicles available to consumers.
Helping the Chinese government
Tesla's presence in China has helped jump-start the country's EV sector, which was a goal of Chinese leaders. The Chinese government has provided Tesla with loans, tax benefits, and subsidies in return for Tesla working with local suppliers.
Serves them right for stalling progress on EV transition at every turn
They object to governments forcing them to stop making the cars they want to and making something they don't believe in
Fairly understandable.
@@DaveG7920 sort of. course when and if the market changes, they get left behind, and go bankrupt
@@DaveG7920 chinese gov't gave them years advance notice... they didn't take notice and now crying for not being fair...
Every foreign automaker will be affected by Chinese nationalism. Doesn’t matter if they’re EV or ICE.
When the tyrannical Chinese government subsidizes domestic brands with hundreds of billions of dollars and heavily regulates and discriminates against foreign companies, those foreign companies will have to close down. That is not a function of the market; it is a function of the government.
Please buy my massive Company! It made old cars really well. Just a small matter of billions in debts and nothing anyone wants to buy are we able to be build any more.
Roll up roll up buyers... Buyers? ... Please!
Our own manufacturing companies should make cheaper, better looking cars instead of just making the cars that they have been making.
BMW in China just offered deeper discounts on their electric models. That’s gonna hurt profits even more. I wouldn’t buy any stocks of Audi , Porsche, Mercedes or BMW - it’s going to be a bloodbath.
Mercedes is still a status symbol, I'd rather worry about VW. AnywAy, neither are a buying option.
@@xXdnerstxleXx In China , second hand cars from these 4 automakers are very cheap , esp large engines. And prices are dropping US1.5-2k every month. So in 6 mth they lose US10K. Second hand car lots are full of them. Very tempting but you can’t resell them without losing 40-60% value.
@@robertwang7825 Yeah, China is in an insane Deflation, the bubble burst thanks to their insane covid mandates. Same thing is going to happen in the west when our everything bubble also bursts. I'll give it another year.
I think the car market in China is going to stabelize probably earlier next year. I'd love to buy cheap chinese cars and export it over here. I live in Germany, if I get the car for personal use I can get around a lot of the restrictions.
Imma expert analysis ura expert analysis EVERYBODY Issa expert analysis
He may not be an expert but he certainly knows more about EVs than you n me
Fortunately the world will end before then, so dont stress peeps. 🎉🎉🎉
The executives who make millions will in the next 5 years will be just fine, so they don't care. Bonuses and executive golden parachutes will take care of them.
Paid fortunes to be failures
The only way they can survive is to ask their govts to block the Chinese cars import and close their domestic markets, then ask their govt to subsidise them (in addition to the money that were given already). In that cases they may survive for another few years...
exactly like the USA and Europe has done
And if you think Western governments are going to allow this.............
It's not about want, it's about able
VW will not leave China as it is the training ground for their engineers to go back to Germany and the future manufacturing ground for their vehicles to export to other countries that is why the US is not pleased.
agree and they have partners that likely WANT VW around for access to global markets in NAME and sharing plant space to dodge tariffs in Europe
@@jasonriddell Tariffs in Europe is not problem as Hungary already has EV production in place but it is critical for VW to have the best Production Facility so that it can survive. EU can Charge as much Tariffs as they want as it is the Importer pay the Tariffs and the costs will pass to Consumers as long as the Consumers think that they are rich enough and willing to pay to their Governments.
If crap hits the fan in the Israel-Iran drama, expect China and the rest of ASEAN and Australia to go full electric in a short period of time even if it was against US pressure, South Korea and Japan on the other hand have so much pride that they'd end up doing economic harakiri by not adopting Chinese EVs.
5 years😂? Naaaaaaah give it 3😅.
There is a world outside China, and whilst the population of China is in decline, most of the global population growth is expected to take place in South-East Asia and Africa. Countries whose citizens are too poor to afford EVs, and that don't have the electrical supply infrastructure to support them even if they could. In these regions, Toyota, Hyundai, etc will continue to reign supreme
But for some reason my Nio shares are under 7 bucks !!!
I hope it keeps falling, every months I´m buying shares from them.
Wth they have so big loans.
No they will not mr collaborator
Nobody will notice the "legacy" makers.
Stellantis will be the first bankruptcy within 18 months then followed shortly by Nissan
fro what i have seen, Nissan will be first, sales are down over %70.
Nope! Nissan will definitely collapse first. Just kidding. Both are definitely in critical condition.
@@DavidWiliams-r1g Seriously if I had to bet, I would say Nissan first. Stellantis is a bunch of automakers owned by a parent company, so I think they'll sell off what they can, and shrink by a lot. I sure wouldn't buy stock in either one though!
Stellantis won't go bankrupt because it has already invested in and cooperated with Chinese brands.
@@deepseer Sounds reasonable, but Stellantis's unprofitable stuff will still probably disappear, and the remaining parts will probably be under mostly Chinese control. Not that I'm putting down China. They had to compete to get to where they are.
There’s a way out, if VW group or GM buy Tesla Car production they might stay in Business … I don’t know if the Chinese Electric Cars will last as long as Teslas do reliably. I remember the Great Wall Experience, my lady friend could manage to keep her car running well but many were wearing out twice as fast as Mitsubishi vehicles … Mechanic friends always steered me away from Chinese Cars, I don’t know how they would make their Electric cars as good as European and Two or three Americans…
There are many taxis in China from BYD are still running more than 400.000 km. The stock price from Tesla is so high, that the legacy manufacturer can´t buy Tesla, instead Tesla could buy all of them together.
6min BYD eliminate
True in China but in U.K. and USA their be still here as the mps that work for them will be giving tax payers money free
Is economy of scale a thing of the past ?
I hope so.
Motor cars by the million, olive groves by the hectare, everyday utensils identical world.wide ?
Where is the appreciation of beauty ?
We no longer resonate.
A pile of bricks, an unmade bed, is art.
We have truly lost the plot.
A magnificent and magical world surrounds and envelopes us ...
Wait, I´m just checking my emails.
It is all part of the plan. China has learned how to make their own cars now.
The electric vehicle made in Europe should be forced DOWN in price so that their vehicles get sold rather than stuck in the showroom because prices are too high for most people to afford!!
but the opposite is being done pushing UP the price of CHINESE vehicles to remove affordable options
@@jasonriddell The problem is that politicians are all the same all over the world!! They SAY one thing and then do something totally different!! How does the Dutch bird, whatever her name is, do something as crass and stupid as to put the price of a Chinese electric vehicle up without forcing the local companies to DROP THEIR PRICES?!!!!
Chinese car's interiors are a head above the rest, got used to my BYD and when I ride a Japanese car, I feel like I'm riding a styro TV box, really outdated designs and with their advanced aging population, expect their innovation, creativity and design skills to further deteriorate! Not to mention the declining quality of brands like Toyota, if China can be more aggressive with marketing and improve durability even more, they can dominate the world especially the global south.
Tesla will be the only survivor.
Not just in China... try to look at Asia countries. Hyundai is being push out from the Asia market by Chinese brands. I bet Hyundai be the 1st to declare bankrupt.
Not just in China in South East Asia, China cars manufacture are rapidly taking market share in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Phillipines, Singapore, Cambodia...
yes, basically all the developing nations of SE Asia...and also Latin America and South Africa
who needs the u.s market....
And BYD in Spouth America. No competence there.
Yes. The rest of the world will soon follow as well. For most people, value and affordability wins over brands.
@@fatdoi003The US market is very very small compared to the rest of the world.
5 yrs? They are already bleeding money now, and they want to sustain 5 yrs of money loosing while catching up battery technology? Thats a whole lot of debt to accumulate.
10 billion a company, means 30 - 40 billions total debt. Can US and german economy sustain that much new debtnin single industry?
This is before loosing asean, latam, emea market.
Legacy automaker cannonly survive under protection and massive new debt.
Most if not all legs y auto manufacturers are at or above 100 billion in debt ...😂
They won't last long .
And yet in Australia diesel is selling 4 to 1 against EV. Come back in 5 years and you will be telling us the same thing.
Funny how you think Australia is a global powerhouse.
Volkswagen has one big advantage: they are already in the middle of their electrification. and the things that where not that great have been mostly fixed. the ID.7 now sells very well.
VW has another advantage: they have a better economy of scale regarding ICE. that means they still can make good profits with ICE even when the ICE market is going down to 20%. they have the same four cylinder engines in so many cars from Skoda, Seat, Audi and VW itself.
that means that they still make profits two years longer with ICE than the smaller competition when it still might be difficult to make profits.
we already heard that stellantis is struggling with fiat and maserati. the fiat 500e is a very nice car but is 5000€ overpriced. and maserati and alfa romeo do not have anything good in the EV sector. it is not going well.
the same in japan, they are sleeping very very well and will lose 80% in the whole world before they get their shit together and can keep up.
tesla and other pure EV manufacturers will pick up their shares.
They will merge or they will fail….
In most countries his remarks are considered hate speech… Shameful!
When are you going to make a video on Scotty Klimmer?
That guy is a twit.
I think Sam doesn't want to get into fights with other automotive RUclipsrs.
@glennO-e9r He's worse than the media on saying EVs are just basically a passing fad. So many people are just so closed minded.
Gweetings from Z Republic of Cebu 😉😊
If cebu can go independent and allowing chinese investment, im sure siargao will be the next hawaii
Why are there millions of unsold EVs parked around China .You cannot trust sales figures from China .There are many Electric car companies in China witch many will Fail .Many Legacy car brands will leave China where EVs will remain popular for years to come and could even carry on selling.The problem for EVs is they are getting unpopular in Many countries and people are not buying them it’s slowing down in a big way.Legacy car makers will probably get smaller but will start making cars that people want in there own markets .Legislations will change in Europe and the US when it comes to ICE engines things will get better for them after that as the popularity of EV is dropping in the West .
I agree with your analysis Viking, but at the same time why is GM's stock peaking at the moment? Earnings report next week... I understand that GM is cash-rich, and may buy back shares. Will it be enough to save them?
company stock buy back??
All newer ICE since 2010 are rubbish apart from Toyota and Lexus. Living in Southern Africa we'll stick to our tried and tested older diesel Toyotas whilst you lot enjoy your hazardous EVs
And how long do you think your old toyotas would last? wear and tear on bad South African roads plus the eventual drying up of parts availability!
Living inland Australia I sold the Landcruiser and got a Tesla Model S with a 1.85 t towbar. 10 years and 400.000km later it still is the best and far cheapest vehicle to run I have ever owned.
No one wants cheap Chineses EV problem is that EV options are limited right now
Speak for yourself. I don't want a "subscription" to use my car on top of all the others costs, additional subs to use the battery I PAID for, even MORE if I want my seat HEATED in the winter. A cheap Chinese EV that goes from A-to-B and doesn't make Exxon richer sounds like a great idea, MY life isn't wrapped up in cars - not for 25+ years now.
Now China will benefit from Chinese cheap labor not Germany or US car makers. Tech stagnation will end legacy auto. Too bad the economies /workers of Germany, Japan, US will suffer because of poor greedy egotistical leadership. Jeannine
Please clarify. Take out plug in hybrid in China. Break down the percentage please. In China what percentage. Sold is ev only? Thanks.
Ask chatGPT or Google.
In 2023 more then 5 million BEVs sold with a 25% market share.
These 'click bait" thumbnails cause a loss of credibility after a while.
You worry to much
5 years? That would be too slow considering the speed of the current development. It will be there years or less when they need to cut the losses or face collapse.
Yes end of 2026 or sooner is my swag!
Check their debt loads, average worker age, average factory age, Altman z scores and bond ratings etc. By 2028 imo none will be left standing as is today. Mergers are gonns be forced, bailouts for some companies and bankruptcy for others are gonna happen.
Sad thing is they've known since 2019 the c02 and stricter global vehicle emissions we're coming by 2025. And did nothing to prepare.
man you are putting out so many videos that the quality is really affected. At 0:40 you say "Have a look at this chart" and there's no chart to look at. This happens a lot in your videos where you are talking about some stats and show stock footage instead of the actual data
29th
I dont have any sympathy for the legacy car manufacturers because they have spent too long trying to ignore EVs which is causing much of the negative impact.
5:30 The fall will continue unless they start licking President Xi's boot, turn him into 財神 (a Chinese money deity) and worship him piously day in day out. 🤣😂
Tesla needs to open a cyber truck and Robo Taxi / model 2 factory in Thailand ..
It’s going to happen.
LOL