@@noblerecords I DO understand why people slab very specific stuff like you had mentioned. First pressings of classic albums already exist in mass quantities so it’s not like slabbing your sealed GNR is going to kill someone. Now if we’re talking about slabbing uber rare listenable records? Hard pass! Imagine sending all your ‘70s zamrock in to get slabbed? Yuck!!! Play it!!!
There are much better ways of investing than slabbing records. Not worth the time or space to do this. Records are for listening!!!! I wouldn't buy a slabbed record, or if I did, I would open it and play it!!!!!
Issue with slabbing is it creates a false economy that is prone to abuse, specially when it's just one company doing the grading. Already happened with video games, look at the whole Wata games controversy!
Yeah, it's a scam. Started with coins, moved on to baseball cards, then comics, and then video games. Every time people catch on they move on to another collectible market. Vinyl is just the latest one.
@@beardsandmonocles1117 With baseball cards it rooted out the cheaters that were selling fakes, trimming cards, recoloring, etc... I don't like it all for records which I want to touch, read, listen to.
@@beardsandmonocles1117 At least with coins and cards you can still enjoy the object. Comics, Movies, Games, and Records can't be enjoyed once slabbed.
A few months ago I found a 1st pressing of Nico's the marble Index- sealed....sealed. Elektra 1st pressing. I couldn't wait to get home and rip it open and listen to it. It was so worth it. Better than any of the reissues. It was mint in perfect condition- no warping, not bad from an album from the 60s. I only paid 75 for it. Slabbing is not for me
I found Mad Season - Above 1st US pressing sealed and instantly opened it when I got home. It’s maybe top5 record of all time for me and definitely bought it for listening.
I just picked up the Kevin Gray 2013 reissue, what a fantastic record. Bravo on finding an original sealed! I did exactly the same with a sealed copy of LemonJelly KY which I bought in 2017, only 1000 ever made and never repressed, instantly unwrapped it and played it, destroyed the value by 50% and couldn’t be happier!
Totally insane to me, it’s all about the music and the reference of that music at a point in history. I have a couple of dupes I’ve bought that are still in storage sealed, but they’re for me when I burn through my original copies. One of them was bought in 2018 and is already worth about $650 and I bought it for $30, but I would never dream of selling it. Just like my collection, I will never sell it, I’ll leave it to my nephews. Money is irrelevant really. The value is the entertainment and how the music affects my emotions and memories.
I dont think that its ALWAYS just about the money. I have been thinking of slabbing my first copy, as banged up as it is, of Meet The Beatles. I haven't played it in years, because I have several copies that sound better. But it has great sentimental value to me. It wouldn't fetch a high price, but its special to me.
I used to be the beverage director for a small chain of wine bar/restaurants. We would do some events with the owner who was a wine collector, the distributors, and the members of the wine club. There were some deep, deep pockets and pretty incredible portfolios in this bunch. Overwhelmingly the collectors who actually drank their wine were nicer, more generous, and normal than the guys who put auction wines in a vault and forgot about them. Hoarders. We had one guy with deep pockets who'd show up to these events with a few thousand dollars, cost, in bottles just giddy to share them. I kind of view this as similar. Slabbing records outside of the .00002% of the rarest is silly. I don't want to hang with anyone that materialistic. These are items designed to bring joy through music. Simple.
I purchased the white label promo, 'Woodstock' soundtrack LP from your shop about a year ago. I had been looking for a decent copy for a while. It still has the "Advisable to screen this record carefully before clearing it for air play' sticker on it. I'd never slab it, I still dig listening to it and checking out the jacket!
When I wanted to start framing some of my favorite/rarest vinyl, I quickly realized I needed those hang-and-play frames because I couldnt NOT keep myself from playing them. The only vinyl that I could think of slabbing would be a signed cover of an album i can easily get a duplicate of.
Now that actually makes sense. Slabbing an autographed record that is not rare to protect would be a great idea. However, I would not waste the money to have it graded.
When i buy an album, and i do buy them, i buy it for the simple reason that i want to listen to the music. Oh i have 6 spot albums on the Columbia label including Kind of Blue but i wont slab any records. The album covers maybe but records never.
I thought slabbing comics was a stupid thing to do, but slabbing records is so incredibly stupid it defies logic. Also, as a reseller I feel I have the ability to give my buyers an accurate grade. Would I pay to send a valuable record to strangers for them to grade and then permanently seal it up and make it unplayable? Hell no. An utterly ridiculous concept.
Not really that ridiculous. If you see my comment, and I am in no way implying your grading isn't accurate, there are many resellers that are extremely optimistic about the grade given to a record. I would say, at least in my own experience, that 40% of the time, I get a record that was NOT the grade it was advertised as, and since it's a pretty subjective system, it's often hard to argue. I will tell you that the annoyance of receiving an expensive record that isn't "as advertised" is way more than the premium a slabbed record will bring. Because NOW, I have some recourse to argue that the grade given was not the grade when played. However, I do agree that collecting slabbed records and not playing them is insane... BUT ONLY TO ME. If that's what floats someone's boat, then great. Those records will be preserved for future music lovers.
@@mannye My take on it is that it is preserved, at best, for future lovers of record artwork. But probably more so for no-interest investors. Once sealed it is unplayable, no different to the stupidity that other NFT markets have descended into. I guess it may come with a QR code that links to a download of an autotuned version, that will disappear in a couple of years - whoopee.
Records are for listening, I don't mind temp slabbing if it is a quick way to grade a record so you can see the quality of a record in stores. Then it is immediately opened and the customer gets the copy.
I honestly am attracted to record collecting because the common practice is to actually use the products and not just encase them on a shelf. So much of the collecting communities are caught up with grading services and numbering, it feels like missing the forest for the trees. At least with like Pokémon cards, you can still see the card inside the slab. But to not be able to listen to the record…you’re basically just collecting album art at this point…
One issue I ran into was, I purchased the Rush Archive album and when I opened it up, I had 2 Caress of Steele and 1 Fly by Night album in it with no Rush album. Now if I would have had it graded and sealed, the grading would not have been accurate, therefore I would never buy a graded album just because in the back of my mind I would be wondering if the vinyl inside is actually the album if it is a sealed copy
As a collector, I divide my collection into two categories; wants and will buys. The will buys allow me to bring new recordings home while I continue the search for the wants. The wants are what keeps me out there looking. Will buys are bonus finds or simply an acknowledgment of rarity with potential financial gain. When I find a want that happens to be sealed, you bet I’m opening it. 3 months later I’ll find and buy an open copy. Oh the joy of finding a sealed copy after you’ve found the open one.
Farm! I was in rural Illinois for a week trying to get an original copy of that album. Scouring small, far apart record stores. Another story from there is that very early in the Beatles US Tour, George Harrison stopped in a guitar store and bought a much beloved ES 335. Or something to that effect.
My original copy of The MC5'S Kick Out The Jams is warped. I dont know how it happed, its been stored correctly with all my other albums that are not warped. Id live to have someone flatten it.
This is just predatory capitalism at its worst. Try to create a market that nobody needs, wants or really asked for so some business that really has no interest in arts or aesthetics or the purpose of the thing itself can profit, Screw that.
I'm buying the records that I want to listen to only, if I came across a record that was rare I would be open to having it slabbed or graded. Another great topic!
Great video, I immediately recoiled at the idea of grading / incapsulating as done with other Collectibles. I collect other things and grading has drastically changed those hobbies with only a small portion of positive outcomes. I think one type of grading / incapsulating positive for vinyl would be to authentic signed records. I have many street autographs and to get those graded and preserved with authentication would be good and they're on albums I could easily buy again to listen to. After that, what you've already mentioned would be it.
It's great to frame a record so you can enjoy it as a piece of art. I love the cover of crash landing by Hendrix. Have it on display along with family pictures !! You can pick records at charity and antique shops often really cheap. Frame them , then swap them around. Great video once again thanks
I have a copy of Electric Ladyland, which my wife bought after being on my wish list for ages. When she found it at a local vinyl store she was offered one of two versions. She bought the one that is probably best NOT displayed with family pictures!
As I was listening, thinking about the handful of graded comics I have out of the thousands I have, was going over the pros and cons of grading a record having the same qualms about encasing one when you mentioned sealed copies and I thought, yea. I have some sealed copies of records of records i have to listen to. They need to create a different type of grading case for records so you can see the inner sleeve and the record.
No never.. music and in particular vinyl is a thing of beauty that requires listening to! Cant for the life of me imagine why anyonre would want to do this.. love and collected vinyl for 45+years and the thought of doing this horrifies me! Great post Dillon as always..thanks for putting up great posts from here in the UK 👍
You know what I find exciting? Going to my amazing local record store and finding an original pressing of a 60s or 70s rare lp, the cover is poor, but the vinyl is near perfect, and the price is 9 bucks. Records I bought new in the 70s sound awesome, but the covers show the patina from the love of a well lived life. I only care about the music.
my opinion is that its stupid, there's also been conflict in interest with rating agencies and auction houses in the past. records are meant to be played!
I think I agree with you, Dillon. I have a promo copy of Kind of Blue (not in mint condition, by the way - it's maybe a VG), and it's the only one I can think of that I might have slabbed, especially since I have several other copies of it, including both UHQRs, that I can pull out if I want to actually listen to it. But even with the promo I like to look at it sometimes (including that white label). I am considering putting it in a frame and hanging it on the wall, but in that case at least I can take it back out if I want.
Much agree with you. You made excellent arguments pro and con. As a professional collectible record seller since 1975, I couldn’t agree more with your take on the current Goldmine grading standard. That has been flawed since the introduction of stereo LPs, IMO. The only thing I would add to what you said in the video is that this seems like a way for a handful of respected collector grading companies to make a fortune off record collectors. And it will mostly help flippers who have no interest in the music.
One of the many aspects about the future of slabbed records will be a higher percentage of record owners who are wealthy people who just want to collect beautiful things of history who don’t have a turntable but they do have a home museum
I have recently been buying records replacing albums lost long ago. The only reason I want them is I love the music and enjoy listening to them. And music, being the time capsule it is, can make me feel young again. If I'm lucky enough to find an original sealed copy of a beloved band you know I'm gonna open it and enjoy every listening moment! Collecting for "investment" makes it much more challenging for someone like myself to find affordable records.
I've had records where new information has come to light where I've needed to re-examine the label details/matrices to see if I had this newly discovered pressing, I couldn't do that if the record had been slabbed. Also, like the shrink wrap debate, how would I know if the LP doesn't become warped while it's been encapsulated?
Many old sealed original records can't be considered first pressing unless you break the shrink and examine the label or dead wax. So how would sealed records be given a first press grade when slabbed without the verification?😊
One thing to mention is you can have it slabbed where both the cover and the vinyl are exposed inside the glass so you can still view the wax and labels. Just a heads up
The purpose of a records existence is to deliver music. It want’s to be played. It’s a great joy to buy and pay for a sealed record , break the seal in front of the seller and pull out the record to check it. I’ve done it twice the last four years.
It seems like someone should make a case that can still be opened and closed but once the tamper seal has been broke, then it just needs to be professionally graded and sealed again before being resold. Seems like you win a all the way around
do people not realize the grading company and the auction house that sells 99% of them are owned by the same people, and they are being bid on by the owners? It's the textbook definition of a scam. They did this with video games and the grading company and auction house are being sued over it.
Things becoming speculative investments ruins them for the people that actually enjoy those things, it drives up the prices like crazy and puts them out of reach for most people. Housing is a great example of this
I bought a sealed Japanese first pressing of Born In The U.S.A. and Side A was amazing - Side B was full of crackles on all tracks _(cleaned several times and it stayed the same)_ - No recourse with a sealed, ~40 yr old record. Not the seller's fault. Was a bummer, to say the least. I bought another with a mint disc and a VG sleeve, and swapped it into the mint sleeve :)
Years ago, I found a sealed Beatles Naked record in a record store behind the counter in a glass case. I bought it for $300 and when I got home. I opened it and listened to it. My friends went nuts. I told them I didn't buy an expensive stereo system to not listen to records. I do have an autograph Thin Lizzy jaill break album framed behind glass. I have another copy I listen to. It's behind glass simply for the autographs.
I’ve collected the Zeppelin Quiex pressings all bar the first album but I will get it, anyway most of them have never been opened and I have a back and forth with myself if I should open and play them.
The first record that came to my mind is my Dale Crover (of the Melvins) record that's cut into a brass cymbal. You're not going to be spinning that too often; it's more of an art piece than a playable record. That said, though, I certainly did play it one time when I got it...on a used stylus, and burned it to MP3. It didn't sound great, but it did play. While I'll never play it again, if it had been slabbed I never would have had the opportunity.
I can relate to this as I once had inherited a huge comic book collection from the 50s and 60s. Spider-Man #1, the whole bit. In that community the grade is everything. There are those that won't slab their comics but they may be losing an opportunity for more value if they ever want to sell it. When the books are slabbed you can't read them - very much like the records. In some ways, it's even worse than the records because records are repressed all the time. Not as much with comics AND they're less available for reading electronically. I look at it like this with the records.... some records are very rare and valuable - think of the 1500 series Blue Notes. But, I can get better sounding pressings of most of those old records now and still enjoy the music even if I do slab the original. So, I get why people would do it... I don't think I ever would. Of course, it's easy for me to say as I don't own anything that is worth slabbing!!
As a long time grader of collectibles and a vinyl collector/seller I dislike grading wax other than sealed vintage records. I think it's reasonable for these records and the most sensical use case.
Crazy Jimmy chimin in. I agree with you that it would take a special record that is sealed and with no need to open. I also think it’s good for the industry too. Vinyl records should be and can be treated like a comic but it will depend on the actual album so to your point, it would take a certain record to slab. Thanks for shining a light on this
These grading companies will slab anything they can find. I can't see myself ever having a slabbed record, but I'll never say never. Like you, I want to be able to listen to the album. I also collect comics, and I only own a couple that are slabbed, but I have raw copies I can still read and enjoy the interior art. About the only thing I think makes the most sense is trading cards, so there's no content hidden by the encapsulation process.
Isn't there a way to "slab" something without being 100% permanent - something like a key or such that would allow the rightful owner to open it on occasion?
@noblerecords My heart SANK when you mentioned a SEALED Pink Floyd DSOTM. I had one. Original from the 70’s. Didn’t realize the value and gave it to my daughter who was getting into vinyl. It’s been opened and played. I did keep the poster tho. I should’ve kept that record sealed. 😩 P.S. I do still have a sealed Hotel California from the 70’s tho.
Records are for listening , touching, smelling and looking at not slabbing!!!! You sell records for people to listen to add to their collection not to put in glass, its not the same and never will be.
I have a couple of records that were opened but with the shrink left on. 30 years later the shrink had stuck to the varnish on the sleeve and pulled it off if I attempted to remove it. 😓
Finally someone who has had this experience aswell. It needs to be talked about way more. Shrink-wrap is supposed to be ripped off and thrown away. I don't agree with the argument about shrink warping records, but it will sure as hell stick to the covers and ruin them. I inherited a collection , many of the best shrink-wrapped records were ruined , stuck on the sleeve as you say. Get that shrink off! RIP to whatever you lost OP
@@njwtube If it is just plain shrink wrap then I chuck it, it will go in a proper PVC sleeve anyway. If it has stickers on it, even if just discount/promo ones I tend to keep them on. Maybe I've been lucky but I've not had any shrink wrap stick to the cover. My copy of Wish You Were Here still has the black plastic wrap on it, only slit on one edge to get the LP out.
I 99% hate it, but I agree with you in very rare circumstances. Your example of the sealed butcher would be one of the exceptions IMO. Any unsealed record though, keep em open, take care of them, and enjoy them.
I totally agree with cards being slabbed. You see the front and back, the condition is transparent. As far as comics and opened records, that is probably dumb. Sealed video games & sealed records could be understandable. I have a couple sealed copies of Duran Duran Rio, one of my fav albums. I could get one graded possibly, however I am happy to have them sealed without grading. Maybe one day I will open one and listen to a brand new copy on a special occasion. It is fun to open aa awesome record and play it for the 1st time. Seems if an album or a comic is sealed long enough, the inside ink might bleed, therefore being encased might damage the print in the long run....also could get warped in the heat after being graded...then wouldn't match the grade and no one is the wiser...
IMO slabbing should be for visual/historical collectibles for which encasing them wouldn't remove a rare great-sounding LP from circulation. IMO the ultimate value of a high-value LP is generally its superior sound and should be available to a listener. That being said, people should within reason be free to do whatever they want in this hobby.
I wouldn’t mind having a slabbed mint Butcher Cover above the turntable as a player copy of Yesterday and Today played the music that’s the reason for me liking the slabbed album. Wrong?
Seeing that new vinyl records go for $25 on up & up & up. I can see if it’s very special record otherwise do not see doing it. 4,000 plus in my collection. Peace & Love
Regarding your statement of making a sealed record little more than a commodities exchange, I completely agree -- I think sealing a record in plastic like that is dumb. However, utilizing the grading system as a way of standardizing the condition of a record isn't a bad idea. I don't know how I feel about having to pay some guy a fee to say, "Yup, this is an 8 out of ten," but I do understand the potential value in that if you're getting records on the secondary market.
@@noblerecords I can see what you're saying, I'm just looking at it as being similar to arranging a system for grading to that which is used on collectibles like comic books. By the same token too, I would love to believe that people collect records for the love of music and not just as "the next investment opportunity," but sometimes people miss the point like that.
for those of you that are not aware, the people who stab comic books are a legit business who have not yet been in court for money laundering, on the other hand basically every company that handles video game slabbing and grading has been found to launder money, conspire to raise artificial value and have zero consistency between grades, some of the people who now run those ventures even went to jail in the 80s and 90s for money laundering and Ponzi schemes during the collectable coin fad of that era. So be aware of that and who the type of person who would be willing and interested in raising the prices of vinyl, before we make grading anything else an on-going thing.
Records are meant to be played, not put in display cabinets. By all means put them in outer sleeves if they are either very valuable or if the outer jacket is fragile. My entire collection is of albums I like to listen to whether they are valuable financially or not. Well said … they need to be listened to..
I would guess the grading of albums would run upwards or $25 to $40 per each. I recently investigated pricing for sports card grading and it runs about $12 to $15 and has minimum items graded requirements. Also, the charges increase to old the items are.
My standard for grading a record NM is that if it has any kind of stray mark on the play surface or any kind of spindle mark it is no longer NM. I would grade that VG+ and specifify that the record is the tiniest mark away from NM. Some of these records I have seen come through in the mail that were graded as NM were so far gone that I just have to assume it was graded in a dark room with no lights. I once had a 7" single arrive where the record was just loose behind the cover so it may have started the trip actually NM, who knows. The funniest bit of irony to that particular order is that there was a note talking about how they ship records outside of the sleeve to prevent damage in transit, I'll be honest it kind of read like a comedy bit.
I totally understand. When I sell online I’m overly critical of my grading. If I order something online and it arrives poorly packaged, I will not order from them again. The sellers who packed with thought, I’ll buy from again even if it costs more. A big part of my collection is SACD, half the time they’ll throw it in a bubble envelope and it always arrives cracked.
I think you’re right about a Butcher Cover or things of that nature. That record is valuable NOT because of the music, and so a copy in amazing shape is probably enhanced by grading / slabbing and then you can put the whole package in a fancy frame. Then you have the best of both worlds and a killer conversation piece.
I've never heard of it referred to as "slabbing", in the TCG space we call it "graded" since that's the most important outcome of the process for collectability and marketability.
I have mixed opinions, maybe on records I’ve bought and had signed by the artist involved (which can never be sealed as they’ve had to write on it) I do feel the same about records as I do video games though whereas it’s a product that’s close to my heart and I love being able to put those cartridges in the consoles or those records onto their turntables due to the personal feeling it gives me
So… you’re sealing something in plastic to, I suppose, preserve it? How do you guarantee that the plastic won’t damage the contents? Plastic changes over time, leaches chemicals, becomes brittle and can yellow…. and once a record has been sealed and passed between collectors, how do you know that the record inside the sleeve is the record it’s supposed to be? Sounds like some people will be conned. THE MUSIC MATTERS
My records are to play! My collection reflects my tastes. I see why people collect, but there is so much out there now, that the scarcity that drives up value is decades away. Collectors, do yourself a favor, look up what makes certain cars so valued and then look at what you have.
I think the graded vinyl industry is going to continue to catch on. If you’re a collector or music enthusiast you should probably learn about it as it will help the hobby grow. Comics, magazines…are all being graded and it helps create a more efficient and robust collector’s market. Having a graded copy and a play copy isn’t that far-fetched, comic guys do it all the time. I agree that the market right now only supports grading high-end, rare, and SEALED lps.
I don’t have any super rare records to slab but if I had a bunch of mint first pressing blue notes and I could still listen to my Kevin Grays, I’m not sure.
Too lazy to look it up, but… if it were sealed, would you truly know a DSOTM is a “1st” press? People certainly can do what they want with their possessions, but slabbin’ ain’t for me.
I have a die-cut that I'd never slab. The inner sleeve can be flipped to change the background of the cover. I mean that's a no brainer. Then there's also gate-fold. Same type of issue there. I would however slab a sealed copy of an album if I also had an open copy and it was one that I felt was worth the $ for me to slab. So far I have none like that, and only one, if I was forced to.
I would be in total agreement with you, Dillon, on the slabbing of records. Most people want to be able to play their records or at least look at them for their label variety, for example. Like you mentioned, if we were to have a Beatles “Butcher Cover”, then by all means, slab it with an official grade. But why slab an Elvis “Moody Blue” album? You wouldn’t even e able to admire the beautiful blue vinyl through the light! At the end of the day, I would not be in favor of slabbing records. Walter P.
For myself, I understand that people don’t care for sealing Records away in protective plastic but in my personal opinion, I think it’s a great way to protect, sealed first issue Records Records that the value is based on the cover and not the sound quality I am getting a Fleetwood Mac limited 250 for Warner Brothers employees record incased The sound quality is the same as a $30 first pressing, but it’s 25 times as much so why would I not get it in case and listen to another copy? Then I can also have family members and friends look at the record and not worry about them not handling it properly because I would love to show off a lot of my high-end vinyl records, but many people that I know aren’t knowledgeable and don’t have the know how on how to properly handle them this way I can hand it to them and they can’t just let you know VMG one of the grading companies has a system where you can see the record as well in case
No slabs, thank you! LISTEN to them like the artist wanted you to do!!
I totally agree!
@@noblerecords I DO understand why people slab very specific stuff like you had mentioned. First pressings of classic albums already exist in mass quantities so it’s not like slabbing your sealed GNR is going to kill someone. Now if we’re talking about slabbing uber rare listenable records? Hard pass! Imagine sending all your ‘70s zamrock in to get slabbed? Yuck!!! Play it!!!
There are much better ways of investing than slabbing records. Not worth the time or space to do this. Records are for listening!!!! I wouldn't buy a slabbed record, or if I did, I would open it and play it!!!!!
@@bobwagner109 I could not imagine a shelf full of records I could never listen to again!
Issue with slabbing is it creates a false economy that is prone to abuse, specially when it's just one company doing the grading. Already happened with video games, look at the whole Wata games controversy!
Yeah, it's a scam. Started with coins, moved on to baseball cards, then comics, and then video games. Every time people catch on they move on to another collectible market. Vinyl is just the latest one.
@@beardsandmonocles1117 With baseball cards it rooted out the cheaters that were selling fakes, trimming cards, recoloring, etc... I don't like it all for records which I want to touch, read, listen to.
@@beardsandmonocles1117 At least with coins and cards you can still enjoy the object. Comics, Movies, Games, and Records can't be enjoyed once slabbed.
I would much prefer to hold my treasured records in my hand un-slabbed.
🤣 me too!
Hold them. Forget hold. How'about play
@@GordonPyzik 100%
A few months ago I found a 1st pressing of Nico's the marble Index- sealed....sealed. Elektra 1st pressing. I couldn't wait to get home and rip it open and listen to it. It was so worth it. Better than any of the reissues. It was mint in perfect condition- no warping, not bad from an album from the 60s. I only paid 75 for it. Slabbing is not for me
Awesome! Good find!
I found Mad Season - Above 1st US pressing sealed and instantly opened it when I got home. It’s maybe top5 record of all time for me and definitely bought it for listening.
Oh yeah, as you should!
I just picked up the Kevin Gray 2013 reissue, what a fantastic record. Bravo on finding an original sealed! I did exactly the same with a sealed copy of LemonJelly KY which I bought in 2017, only 1000 ever made and never repressed, instantly unwrapped it and played it, destroyed the value by 50% and couldn’t be happier!
I wish.
BEAUTIFUL album. Good lord
Had to be a rush to open it up and play it
Totally insane to me, it’s all about the music and the reference of that music at a point in history. I have a couple of dupes I’ve bought that are still in storage sealed, but they’re for me when I burn through my original copies. One of them was bought in 2018 and is already worth about $650 and I bought it for $30, but I would never dream of selling it. Just like my collection, I will never sell it, I’ll leave it to my nephews. Money is irrelevant really. The value is the entertainment and how the music affects my emotions and memories.
Yeah man! Do it the way you like to do it!
I agree! And you're making me curious! Which 2018 album in your collection are you talking about?
@@JohnBlutarski OceanLab - Sirens of the sea
I dont think that its ALWAYS just about the money. I have been thinking of slabbing my first copy, as banged up as it is, of Meet The Beatles. I haven't played it in years, because I have several copies that sound better. But it has great sentimental value to me. It wouldn't fetch a high price, but its special to me.
I used to be the beverage director for a small chain of wine bar/restaurants. We would do some events with the owner who was a wine collector, the distributors, and the members of the wine club. There were some deep, deep pockets and pretty incredible portfolios in this bunch. Overwhelmingly the collectors who actually drank their wine were nicer, more generous, and normal than the guys who put auction wines in a vault and forgot about them. Hoarders. We had one guy with deep pockets who'd show up to these events with a few thousand dollars, cost, in bottles just giddy to share them. I kind of view this as similar. Slabbing records outside of the .00002% of the rarest is silly. I don't want to hang with anyone that materialistic. These are items designed to bring joy through music. Simple.
I purchased the white label promo, 'Woodstock' soundtrack LP from your shop about a year ago. I had been looking for a decent copy for a while. It still has the "Advisable to screen this record carefully before clearing it for air play' sticker on it. I'd never slab it, I still dig listening to it and checking out the jacket!
When I wanted to start framing some of my favorite/rarest vinyl, I quickly realized I needed those hang-and-play frames because I couldnt NOT keep myself from playing them. The only vinyl that I could think of slabbing would be a signed cover of an album i can easily get a duplicate of.
Yeah I agree!
Now that actually makes sense. Slabbing an autographed record that is not rare to protect would be a great idea. However, I would not waste the money to have it graded.
I call this progress
When i buy an album, and i do buy them, i buy it for the simple reason that i want to listen to the music. Oh i have 6 spot albums on the Columbia label including Kind of Blue but i wont slab any records. The album covers maybe but records never.
Totally agree 👍
I thought slabbing comics was a stupid thing to do, but slabbing records is so incredibly stupid it defies logic. Also, as a reseller I feel I have the ability to give my buyers an accurate grade. Would I pay to send a valuable record to strangers for them to grade and then permanently seal it up and make it unplayable? Hell no. An utterly ridiculous concept.
Not really that ridiculous. If you see my comment, and I am in no way implying your grading isn't accurate, there are many resellers that are extremely optimistic about the grade given to a record. I would say, at least in my own experience, that 40% of the time, I get a record that was NOT the grade it was advertised as, and since it's a pretty subjective system, it's often hard to argue. I will tell you that the annoyance of receiving an expensive record that isn't "as advertised" is way more than the premium a slabbed record will bring. Because NOW, I have some recourse to argue that the grade given was not the grade when played. However, I do agree that collecting slabbed records and not playing them is insane... BUT ONLY TO ME. If that's what floats someone's boat, then great. Those records will be preserved for future music lovers.
@@mannye My take on it is that it is preserved, at best, for future lovers of record artwork. But probably more so for no-interest investors. Once sealed it is unplayable, no different to the stupidity that other NFT markets have descended into. I guess it may come with a QR code that links to a download of an autotuned version, that will disappear in a couple of years - whoopee.
Records are for listening, I don't mind temp slabbing if it is a quick way to grade a record so you can see the quality of a record in stores. Then it is immediately opened and the customer gets the copy.
I honestly am attracted to record collecting because the common practice is to actually use the products and not just encase them on a shelf.
So much of the collecting communities are caught up with grading services and numbering, it feels like missing the forest for the trees.
At least with like Pokémon cards, you can still see the card inside the slab. But to not be able to listen to the record…you’re basically just collecting album art at this point…
One issue I ran into was, I purchased the Rush Archive album and when I opened it up, I had 2 Caress of Steele and 1 Fly by Night album in it with no Rush album. Now if I would have had it graded and sealed, the grading would not have been accurate, therefore I would never buy a graded album just because in the back of my mind I would be wondering if the vinyl inside is actually the album if it is a sealed copy
Yes, I agree!
I love how open you are even to things that are not up your street (nor are thwy up mine) and you see whats good and what is bad for you about it.
As a collector, I divide my collection into two categories; wants and will buys. The will buys allow me to bring new recordings home while I continue the search for the wants. The wants are what keeps me out there looking. Will buys are bonus finds or simply an acknowledgment of rarity with potential financial gain. When I find a want that happens to be sealed, you bet I’m opening it. 3 months later I’ll find and buy an open copy. Oh the joy of finding a sealed copy after you’ve found the open one.
Farm! I was in rural Illinois for a week trying to get an original copy of that album. Scouring small, far apart record stores. Another story from there is that very early in the Beatles US Tour, George Harrison stopped in a guitar store and bought a much beloved ES 335. Or something to that effect.
My original copy of The MC5'S Kick Out The Jams is warped. I dont know how it happed, its been stored correctly with all my other albums that are not warped. Id live to have someone flatten it.
This is just predatory capitalism at its worst. Try to create a market that nobody needs, wants or really asked for so some business that really has no interest in arts or aesthetics or the purpose of the thing itself can profit, Screw that.
I'm buying the records that I want to listen to only, if I came across a record that was rare I would be open to having it slabbed or graded. Another great topic!
Thanks for watching! 🙏
Great video, I immediately recoiled at the idea of grading / incapsulating as done with other Collectibles. I collect other things and grading has drastically changed those hobbies with only a small portion of positive outcomes. I think one type of grading / incapsulating positive for vinyl would be to authentic signed records. I have many street autographs and to get those graded and preserved with authentication would be good and they're on albums I could easily buy again to listen to. After that, what you've already mentioned would be it.
It's great to frame a record so you can enjoy it as a piece of art. I love the cover of crash landing by Hendrix. Have it on display along with family pictures !! You can pick records at charity and antique shops often really cheap. Frame them , then swap them around. Great video once again thanks
I have a copy of Electric Ladyland, which my wife bought after being on my wish list for ages. When she found it at a local vinyl store she was offered one of two versions. She bought the one that is probably best NOT displayed with family pictures!
I think these companies are going to make a lot of money off people trying to grade their G+ copies of Michael Jackson’s Thriller, et cetera.
yup Black Slabbeth has arrived.
As I was listening, thinking about the handful of graded comics I have out of the thousands I have, was going over the pros and cons of grading a record having the same qualms about encasing one when you mentioned sealed copies and I thought, yea. I have some sealed copies of records of records i have to listen to.
They need to create a different type of grading case for records so you can see the inner sleeve and the record.
No never.. music and in particular vinyl is a thing of beauty that requires listening to! Cant for the life of me imagine why anyonre would want to do this.. love and collected vinyl for 45+years and the thought of doing this horrifies me!
Great post Dillon as always..thanks for putting up great posts from here in the UK 👍
You know what I find exciting? Going to my amazing local record store and finding an original pressing of a 60s or 70s rare lp, the cover is poor, but the vinyl is near perfect, and the price is 9 bucks. Records I bought new in the 70s sound awesome, but the covers show the patina from the love of a well lived life. I only care about the music.
my opinion is that its stupid, there's also been conflict in interest with rating agencies and auction houses in the past. records are meant to be played!
I think I agree with you, Dillon. I have a promo copy of Kind of Blue (not in mint condition, by the way - it's maybe a VG), and it's the only one I can think of that I might have slabbed, especially since I have several other copies of it, including both UHQRs, that I can pull out if I want to actually listen to it. But even with the promo I like to look at it sometimes (including that white label). I am considering putting it in a frame and hanging it on the wall, but in that case at least I can take it back out if I want.
Much agree with you. You made excellent arguments pro and con. As a professional collectible record seller since 1975, I couldn’t agree more with your take on the current Goldmine grading standard. That has been flawed since the introduction of stereo LPs, IMO. The only thing I would add to what you said in the video is that this seems like a way for a handful of respected collector grading companies to make a fortune off record collectors. And it will mostly help flippers who have no interest in the music.
Thanks!
That’s a really valid take, totally agree
One of the many aspects about the future of slabbed records will be a higher percentage of record owners who are wealthy people who just want to collect beautiful things of history who don’t have a turntable but they do have a home museum
@@arzabael that should be illegal imho. Anyone buying a record never to play it should be banned from the market entirely.
@@SpyderTracks who would the crime be against
I have recently been buying records replacing albums lost long ago. The only reason I want them is I love the music and enjoy listening to them. And music, being the time capsule it is, can make me feel young again. If I'm lucky enough to find an original sealed copy of a beloved band you know I'm gonna open it and enjoy every listening moment! Collecting for "investment" makes it much more challenging for someone like myself to find affordable records.
Slabbing a record seems to me the equivalent of sealing a painting in black glass to protect the artist's artwork. Kind of self defeating - JMHO
I've had records where new information has come to light where I've needed to re-examine the label details/matrices to see if I had this newly discovered pressing, I couldn't do that if the record had been slabbed. Also, like the shrink wrap debate, how would I know if the LP doesn't become warped while it's been encapsulated?
Many old sealed original records can't be considered first pressing unless you break the shrink and examine the label or dead wax. So how would sealed records be given a first press grade when slabbed without the verification?😊
I totally agree, a lot of times you can’t tell without opening
I just saw this for the first time a couple days ago on ebay, a sealed "rumours" album graded 8.5
Lol I find 9.5’s at goodwill for $.99.
Wild
One thing to mention is you can have it slabbed where both the cover and the vinyl are exposed inside the glass so you can still view the wax and labels. Just a heads up
Sensible approach. Good advice. We'll see what plays out as the slabbing creeps into the record world. Really like your channel, Dude. Cheers.
I see your electric ladyland redux to your right. I really enjoy my copy! Cheers!
Also have to see if it's available digitally. If not and it's rare that's the only way you can hear it. Gotta open and listen.
The purpose of a records existence is to deliver music. It want’s to be played. It’s a great joy to buy and pay for a sealed record , break the seal in front of the seller and pull out the record to check it. I’ve done it twice the last four years.
It seems like someone should make a case that can still be opened and closed but once the tamper seal has been broke, then it just needs to be professionally graded and sealed again before being resold. Seems like you win a all the way around
You explained the reason for the disdain better than I could have. Thank you for this
Any time 🤣🙏
I have a Misfits “Cough/Cool” and play it. That’s what it was made for. Majority of those 7”s are viewed solely as commodities.
Nice
do people not realize the grading company and the auction house that sells 99% of them are owned by the same people, and they are being bid on by the owners? It's the textbook definition of a scam. They did this with video games and the grading company and auction house are being sued over it.
Things becoming speculative investments ruins them for the people that actually enjoy those things, it drives up the prices like crazy and puts them out of reach for most people. Housing is a great example of this
I bought a sealed Japanese first pressing of Born In The U.S.A. and Side A was amazing - Side B was full of crackles on all tracks _(cleaned several times and it stayed the same)_ - No recourse with a sealed, ~40 yr old record. Not the seller's fault. Was a bummer, to say the least. I bought another with a mint disc and a VG sleeve, and swapped it into the mint sleeve :)
Years ago, I found a sealed Beatles Naked record in a record store behind the counter in a glass case. I bought it for $300 and when I got home. I opened it and listened to it. My friends went nuts. I told them I didn't buy an expensive stereo system to not listen to records. I do have an autograph Thin Lizzy jaill break album framed behind glass. I have another copy I listen to. It's behind glass simply for the autographs.
I’ve collected the Zeppelin Quiex pressings all bar the first album but I will get it, anyway most of them have never been opened and I have a back and forth with myself if I should open and play them.
The first record that came to my mind is my Dale Crover (of the Melvins) record that's cut into a brass cymbal. You're not going to be spinning that too often; it's more of an art piece than a playable record. That said, though, I certainly did play it one time when I got it...on a used stylus, and burned it to MP3. It didn't sound great, but it did play. While I'll never play it again, if it had been slabbed I never would have had the opportunity.
I can relate to this as I once had inherited a huge comic book collection from the 50s and 60s. Spider-Man #1, the whole bit. In that community the grade is everything. There are those that won't slab their comics but they may be losing an opportunity for more value if they ever want to sell it. When the books are slabbed you can't read them - very much like the records. In some ways, it's even worse than the records because records are repressed all the time. Not as much with comics AND they're less available for reading electronically.
I look at it like this with the records.... some records are very rare and valuable - think of the 1500 series Blue Notes. But, I can get better sounding pressings of most of those old records now and still enjoy the music even if I do slab the original.
So, I get why people would do it... I don't think I ever would. Of course, it's easy for me to say as I don't own anything that is worth slabbing!!
As a long time grader of collectibles and a vinyl collector/seller I dislike grading wax other than sealed vintage records. I think it's reasonable for these records and the most sensical use case.
I'm in a glass case of emotion
Hahahaha
5:37 - what's a "buncher"?
100% agree with all your points. Great take on this subject.
Crazy Jimmy chimin in. I agree with you that it would take a special record that is sealed and with no need to open. I also think it’s good for the industry too. Vinyl records should be and can be treated like a comic but it will depend on the actual album so to your point, it would take a certain record to slab. Thanks for shining a light on this
These grading companies will slab anything they can find. I can't see myself ever having a slabbed record, but I'll never say never. Like you, I want to be able to listen to the album. I also collect comics, and I only own a couple that are slabbed, but I have raw copies I can still read and enjoy the interior art. About the only thing I think makes the most sense is trading cards, so there's no content hidden by the encapsulation process.
Isn't there a way to "slab" something without being 100% permanent - something like a key or such that would allow the rightful owner to open it on occasion?
@noblerecords My heart SANK when you mentioned a SEALED Pink Floyd DSOTM. I had one. Original from the 70’s. Didn’t realize the value and gave it to my daughter who was getting into vinyl. It’s been opened and played. I did keep the poster tho.
I should’ve kept that record sealed. 😩
P.S. I do still have a sealed Hotel California from the 70’s tho.
Records are for listening , touching, smelling and looking at not slabbing!!!! You sell records for people to listen to add to their collection not to put in glass, its not the same and never will be.
Question - Can a vinyl record be slabbed separately from the cover? That way you can see it all.
How does keep the vinyl from warping..
How would you know which pressing it is if it’s sealed?
I have a couple of records that were opened but with the shrink left on. 30 years later the shrink had stuck to the varnish on the sleeve and pulled it off if I attempted to remove it. 😓
Finally someone who has had this experience aswell. It needs to be talked about way more. Shrink-wrap is supposed to be ripped off and thrown away. I don't agree with the argument about shrink warping records, but it will sure as hell stick to the covers and ruin them. I inherited a collection , many of the best shrink-wrapped records were ruined , stuck on the sleeve as you say. Get that shrink off! RIP to whatever you lost OP
@@njwtube If it is just plain shrink wrap then I chuck it, it will go in a proper PVC sleeve anyway. If it has stickers on it, even if just discount/promo ones I tend to keep them on. Maybe I've been lucky but I've not had any shrink wrap stick to the cover. My copy of Wish You Were Here still has the black plastic wrap on it, only slit on one edge to get the LP out.
I found a sealed og copy of funkadelics standing on the verge of getting it on seal for $22. Didn't notice it was original until afer i opened it
There are so many records I would like to get and listen to that I cannot spend money on records that I can’t listen to and even touch !! 😊
Do whatever makes you happy with your collectables
The area between VG+ and NM i refer to as EX. I have a few slabbed comics but I gotta let my records breathe baby!
I 99% hate it, but I agree with you in very rare circumstances. Your example of the sealed butcher would be one of the exceptions IMO. Any unsealed record though, keep em open, take care of them, and enjoy them.
I totally agree with cards being slabbed. You see the front and back, the condition is transparent. As far as comics and opened records, that is probably dumb. Sealed video games & sealed records could be understandable. I have a couple sealed copies of Duran Duran Rio, one of my fav albums. I could get one graded possibly, however I am happy to have them sealed without grading. Maybe one day I will open one and listen to a brand new copy on a special occasion. It is fun to open aa awesome record and play it for the 1st time. Seems if an album or a comic is sealed long enough, the inside ink might bleed, therefore being encased might damage the print in the long run....also could get warped in the heat after being graded...then wouldn't match the grade and no one is the wiser...
IMO slabbing should be for visual/historical collectibles for which encasing them wouldn't remove a rare great-sounding LP from circulation. IMO the ultimate value of a high-value LP is generally its superior sound and should be available to a listener. That being said, people should within reason be free to do whatever they want in this hobby.
I wouldn’t mind having a slabbed mint Butcher Cover above the turntable as a player copy of Yesterday and Today played the music that’s the reason for me liking the slabbed album. Wrong?
Seeing that new vinyl records go for $25 on up & up & up. I can see if it’s very special record otherwise do not see doing it. 4,000 plus in my collection. Peace & Love
Regarding your statement of making a sealed record little more than a commodities exchange, I completely agree -- I think sealing a record in plastic like that is dumb. However, utilizing the grading system as a way of standardizing the condition of a record isn't a bad idea. I don't know how I feel about having to pay some guy a fee to say, "Yup, this is an 8 out of ten," but I do understand the potential value in that if you're getting records on the secondary market.
I get that, but it costs $40-50 to do it, so it’s not really worth it in that regard
@@noblerecords I can see what you're saying, I'm just looking at it as being similar to arranging a system for grading to that which is used on collectibles like comic books.
By the same token too, I would love to believe that people collect records for the love of music and not just as "the next investment opportunity," but sometimes people miss the point like that.
for those of you that are not aware, the people who stab comic books are a legit business who have not yet been in court for money laundering, on the other hand basically every company that handles video game slabbing and grading has been found to launder money, conspire to raise artificial value and have zero consistency between grades, some of the people who now run those ventures even went to jail in the 80s and 90s for money laundering and Ponzi schemes during the collectable coin fad of that era.
So be aware of that and who the type of person who would be willing and interested in raising the prices of vinyl, before we make grading anything else an on-going thing.
"not yet" been in court.
Records are meant to be played, not put in display cabinets. By all means put them in outer sleeves if they are either very valuable or if the outer jacket is fragile. My entire collection is of albums I like to listen to whether they are valuable financially or not. Well said … they need to be listened to..
My collection is the same! I agree.
I would guess the grading of albums would run upwards or $25 to $40 per each. I recently investigated pricing for sports card grading and it runs about $12 to $15 and has minimum items graded requirements. Also, the charges increase to old the items are.
I have a dozen of them in the album frames , but I access them to listen
My standard for grading a record NM is that if it has any kind of stray mark on the play surface or any kind of spindle mark it is no longer NM. I would grade that VG+ and specifify that the record is the tiniest mark away from NM. Some of these records I have seen come through in the mail that were graded as NM were so far gone that I just have to assume it was graded in a dark room with no lights. I once had a 7" single arrive where the record was just loose behind the cover so it may have started the trip actually NM, who knows. The funniest bit of irony to that particular order is that there was a note talking about how they ship records outside of the sleeve to prevent damage in transit, I'll be honest it kind of read like a comedy bit.
I totally understand. When I sell online I’m overly critical of my grading. If I order something online and it arrives poorly packaged, I will not order from them again. The sellers who packed with thought, I’ll buy from again even if it costs more. A big part of my collection is SACD, half the time they’ll throw it in a bubble envelope and it always arrives cracked.
For many record collectors it’s not about music at all even some dealers at some record fair I’ve been don’t know about music which is sad.
I think you’re right about a Butcher Cover or things of that nature. That record is valuable NOT because of the music, and so a copy in amazing shape is probably enhanced by grading / slabbing and then you can put the whole package in a fancy frame. Then you have the best of both worlds and a killer conversation piece.
Yes sir professor 🫡
Oh wow. I didn’t dream people would slab vinyl records. No. No. No.
Insane. The whole point of a record is to listen to it.
I've never heard of it referred to as "slabbing", in the TCG space we call it "graded" since that's the most important outcome of the process for collectability and marketability.
I’ve heard it as slabbing, probably because we use the word “grading”’so much with vinyl
I have mixed opinions, maybe on records I’ve bought and had signed by the artist involved (which can never be sealed as they’ve had to write on it) I do feel the same about records as I do video games though whereas it’s a product that’s close to my heart and I love being able to put those cartridges in the consoles or those records onto their turntables due to the personal feeling it gives me
So… you’re sealing something in plastic to, I suppose, preserve it? How do you guarantee that the plastic won’t damage the contents? Plastic changes over time, leaches chemicals, becomes brittle and can yellow…. and once a record has been sealed and passed between collectors, how do you know that the record inside the sleeve is the record it’s supposed to be? Sounds like some people will be conned. THE MUSIC MATTERS
My records are to play! My collection reflects my tastes. I see why people collect, but there is so much out there now, that the scarcity that drives up value is decades away. Collectors, do yourself a favor, look up what makes certain cars so valued and then look at what you have.
I think the graded vinyl industry is going to continue to catch on. If you’re a collector or music enthusiast you should probably learn about it as it will help the hobby grow. Comics, magazines…are all being graded and it helps create a more efficient and robust collector’s market. Having a graded copy and a play copy isn’t that far-fetched, comic guys do it all the time. I agree that the market right now only supports grading high-end, rare, and SEALED lps.
Sealed? Sure. Get another great copy & enjoy. Periphery ring for warped records & better sound
Man that Zeppelin test pressing is so cool
I don’t have any super rare records to slab but if I had a bunch of mint first pressing blue notes and I could still listen to my Kevin Grays, I’m not sure.
Only in the US, it's not about the music stupid it's about the money stupid, to quote Forest Gump "stupid is as stupid does"
In europe an lp between VG+ and NM is EX for excellent.
Too lazy to look it up, but… if it were sealed, would you truly know a DSOTM is a “1st” press?
People certainly can do what they want with their possessions, but slabbin’ ain’t for me.
You can tell by the hype sticker.
And just the wonderful smell of new vinyl ……even if it’s open you can tell by the smell if it’s been handled a lot!
I have a die-cut that I'd never slab. The inner sleeve can be flipped to change the background of the cover. I mean that's a no brainer. Then there's also gate-fold. Same type of issue there.
I would however slab a sealed copy of an album if I also had an open copy and it was one that I felt was worth the $ for me to slab. So far I have none like that, and only one, if I was forced to.
I think it’s dumb and I won’t participate in it, but to each his own.
I would be in total agreement with you, Dillon, on the slabbing of records. Most people want to be able to play their records or at least look at them for their label variety, for example. Like you mentioned, if we were to have a Beatles “Butcher Cover”, then by all means, slab it with an official grade. But why slab an Elvis “Moody Blue” album? You wouldn’t even e able to admire the beautiful blue vinyl through the light! At the end of the day, I would not be in favor of slabbing records. Walter P.
Do you keep the shrink on new vinyl purchases as well, or just older ones?
For myself, I understand that people don’t care for sealing Records away in protective plastic but in my personal opinion, I think it’s a great way to protect, sealed first issue Records Records that the value is based on the cover and not the sound quality I am getting a Fleetwood Mac limited 250 for Warner Brothers employees record incased The sound quality is the same as a $30 first pressing, but it’s 25 times as much so why would I not get it in case and listen to another copy? Then I can also have family members and friends look at the record and not worry about them not handling it properly because I would love to show off a lot of my high-end vinyl records, but many people that I know aren’t knowledgeable and don’t have the know how on how to properly handle them this way I can hand it to them and they can’t just let you know VMG one of the grading companies has a system where you can see the record as well in case
What warp flattener do you use. If it is expensive, is there a lower priced one you recommend?
I just got your mom to sit on it.