Rose Engine Overview and Guilloche Demonstration
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- In this video I go through the parts and operation of the rose engine lathe that I built in 2019, as well as provide an engine turning demonstration of a basket-weave guilloche pattern.
I built this machine to create engine turned/guilloche dials for my handmade watches. As I hone my craft, I plan on experimenting with unique rosette designs to create patterns and designs that haven't been seen in the watchmaking world before.
Follow me on Instagram: / dmtiffany.timepieces 
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"I built my own rose engine..." Instant subscription.
I read this comment as he was saying it, and I had the exact reaction.
me too. :)
i subbed when I heard ”focus u fxxk“
oath
"Look around, can you form some sort of rudimentary lathe?!" This guy really understood Guy Fleegman's ask!
I like this.. a guy making his own watchmaking TOOLS in this day and age. Nice
I don't understand how these machines work but what they produce is seriously beautiful. The fact that this machine was made from scratch is super impressive.
Outstanding! I am fascinated by rose engines, and seeing you build one has given me a lot of ideas. Thanks!
never knew i wanted 'AvE but ~delicate~' but I'm loving this. amazing videos!
This is the most nerdy yet badass thing a person can do. This is a great video, and an even better build.
fantastic method and fantastic result. you're an inspiration sir.
You clearly watch AVE or bought a used camera from him... love your videos.
Focus you fahk!
Thanks for showing us that. I spent ages at the end with the video frozen just staring at your work. I did find it hysterical that you left that ending in when you bumped your knee. Truly exceptional work.
Very cool stuff. Thank you for sharing this with us!
Amazing machine. Love it! I'm hoping to see more content from this channel.
Just found tour channel and watched the description of your rose engine with interest. I am collecting courage to start making watches. Cases and dials that is. So it is comforting to someone on this path a bit further, but not too far away , along the same path. I have been honing my machining skills, and collecting machines, over the last 5-6 years and I think it is time to get going.
Incredible. Recently found your channel, great content 👍
Thank you algorithm! This dude is a BAMF!
Great work on the rose engine build, not an easy thing to make. The dial looks amazing.
This is superb. Great work making this from scratch.
Incredible work as always, really liking these videos!
To make your own machine and get a beautiful pattern like that a great achievement.nice video.
Love your video and your machine, I have been wanting to build a lathe like this.
I can tell alot of care went into this build.
Wow that’s pretty incredible that you built that your self. Subbed on the strength of this video
Right?? That’s exactly what I said. It must have taken a tremendous amount of trial and error to get that machine working
Great video, need to stop by to see it in person.
Freakin gorgeous work!
Excellent machine!
A nice, modern Holtzapffel.....brilliant!
Thanks for this Darren! Fantastic and very informative video.
I absolutely love engine turning.. This is awesome, really great work buddy, thanks for sharing !
Well, that is very fascinating. Despite the fact I know nothing of this kind of work. It certainly has a great appeal.
Inventor, maker/machinist, mechatronic GYRO here. Thanks for sharing, and best wishes to you!
Bonjour. Formidable. Merci.
Totally awesome demo!
Great video, very descriptive of your engine build. I like that you managed to do it with easily found parts. Next time you demo cutting you have to show us what it's doing each cut (I know a lot of editing). Best line - "Focus you f#$%!"
1:57 my small milling machine was like that, so I used a ball screw zero backlash unit on the descending mill head. Works fabulously. 😊.
Swiss Cartel, Master Watchmakers" Rose Engine Turning machines are like unicons, you wold have to rob a Museum to get one"....DM Tiffany "Hold my beer"
"Focus you F@#K." Super interesting video thanks for showing us how the machine works. How did the backside of the piece go?
I'll be turning the backside today, should go pretty easily. The biggest hurdle is going to be getting the enamel to come out well on both sides.
you tuber's battle cry..
My goodness, you sir, are the ultimate example of a man who built something in his garage, perfected it, and have a wonderful future ahead of you. Your video reminds me of Steve Jobs, the founder of Apple Computer who build his first computer in his garage, and then built an empire.
Rose engine machines are not something just anyone can invent, or reinvent, and the fact you did it in your garage (from the background) is entirely impressive. Your ability to pick up things from the internet and books, combined with your God given talents will serve you well as you continue with your career, most likely as a leader in watchmaking. Hopefully in US watchmaking.
I wish you the very best
The Woz built the computer, not Jobs.
Awesome work , I follow your work on instagram and great to see a breakdown of the machine you made. Trust me you saved some time building your own , it took me 3 years to restore my antique straitline lol.
As a jeweler Guilloche seems very interesting from a design perspective. Making the machine is outside my wheelhouse but making a rosette wheel on a lathe with simple construction seems doable with vids like yours.
What an interesting machine and a beautiful part you have made with it. Great work. 👍
cool stuff
Bloody impressive mate hope your knee isn’t too hurt!
Magnificent machine; excellent work!
Brilliant!
This is so cool. Would love to see a demonstration (like what you did starting around 11:30) but with the camera showing the cutter and watch face. I didn't really understand what you were doing without seeing that.
I think you ave made a great machine, lacks almost nothing to get the job done. For ergonomics I would bring the crank wheel a bit closer but otherwise all good.
To focus all you need to do is hide the distant objects with a featureless grey card behind the detail you want to show that is not too close (15-50cm depending on camera/lens combination). The camera is designed to focus on the section that offers the best contrast and if you have a wobbly thing close by and static thing in the distance I have to side with the camera when it keeps the focus on the distant scene.
Cussing at the camera was funny 5 years ago, not so much now.
Very innovative!
That was awesome and gives me a very clear understanding of the entire process. Now, “Focus you fuck!” 😂
I don’t know if you will still see this message, and don’t know how to contact you. I’m new to OT and rose engine turning. I’m fortunate to meet a well known name in OT, who is building me a simplified version of a traditional rose engine, but with all the functionality. I will build the cabinetry. I’m so impressed with your build and your guilloche work. I’m in the process of buying a lathe and mill and am jumping in with both feet. I hope your journey is going well.
Nice work
The Americans are well articulated.
I love shit like this. Nice job man! I saw rose engine work on a certain knifemaker’s instagram.
Totally awesome, I have a lot of respect for the craftsmanship it takes to do that and it looks amazing. With respect however, it's still an mechanical engraving machine, much in the same way a CNC is a mechanical engraving machine and there isn't much difference in that respect. Granted there's a lot more hands on involvement and and skill with the rose engine, but ultimately its still the result of mechanisation to achieve the results. Again, totally awesome and total respect for your craft!
You have no idea what your talking about. Watches wouldn't exist with out precision machines like this.
Interesting👍
Beautiful sir
LOL I understand the leg room thing. On your hand crank what about putting in a 4 step pully then putting in a wide smooth drum on the driven and installing a spring loaded belt tensioner. Using a vee belt in this configuration should work with no problem.
Just listened to your episode on crystal clear. You're awesome man. I love working on and flipping watches but I wish I had to time to go to school so I could develop my own movements
I somehow don't think he learnt how to do this at a school!
Sensacional esse torno para guilhochet, sou relojoeiro no Brasil e acho essa arte fantástica! Adoraria fazer um para aprender a arte. Porque vc não faz a série de vídeos mostrando a constituição dessa máquina maravilhosa?
I would love to see a video of how you finish your dials.
"Focus you Fuck" sounds like a certain Canadian machinist. Very funny sir!
Very cool indeed, I’d love to have to make coins with
Amazing, I'm fascinated by the look of guilloché. I'm curious, I know it's probably not critical or considered a problem but what about a nylon guide, or Teflon? Fairly stiff but might not leave marks, which then allows you to have blank areas without scratches. Or is that just never a problem?
Came for the lathe, liked for the 'Focus, you fuck!"
“Focus you f**k” hahahaha
congratulation that's great
Have you considered building and selling more? I know members of the hand engraving community that would probably be interested!
Hey Carlin, David Lindow is a gentleman in Pennsylvania that actually makes and sells brand new rose engines. His website is lindowmachineworks.com/
I don't understand how the pattern wheel translates from an X movement, as it follows the pattern, into the Y oscillation movement? Could you explain that please. Also you seem to be putting pressure on the cutter rather than an absolute movement in Y, is this by feel and how do you prevent too deep, or shallow a cut per rotation? This absolutely fascinates me and your videos are great, thanks.
Absolutely incredible. Can you provide references for the books you mention early in the video?
If you make a ratchet indexing plate for the cross slide, you wouldn't have to fiddle with looking at a readout and the cuts could be made quicker.
Focus! Ha!
Thanks for the video! Make the same machine for us. We will buy it from you!
WOW!
That's like some M.C. Escher thing.
US really needs to get with the metric system
thats impressive building your own, wish i had a brain that worked as well ;0)
Can you please show us how that dial will fit on a watch
Not exactly
R W Smith watches. But fair play for making your own machine!. I hope you make some more vids soon and you deserve a lot more subscribers..
F.Y.F. I dont remember that acronym in the Machinist handbook. LOL
I know this video is old, but think you could make a video or even link some sources on what a rose engine lathe does essentially for dummies. i want to get into gem cutting specifically fantasy cutting and ive found this is the type of machine to go with, but im curious in what it exactly does in a more dumbed down version. if you have any sources for that, that would be amazing! if not, totally cool, amazing video and youre clearly talented!
Very nice…..
Hello and thanks for the videos. In future videos if you could, could you please go more in depth about the crossing wheel and phase shifting importance with regard to the engraved patterns. I'm having a hard time understanding the relationship between the phase shift and the change that occurs in the engraved pattern design. I understand the mechanics of what is happening. It changes the engraving start point in relation to the pattern plates. Perhaps If you could show finished engraving examples of the different toothed (phase counts?) Is it because the engraving radius is getting smaller as it gets closer to the center of the work piece? Thanks again, and in advance. Great work there. Do you plan to sell patterns or blueprints for a machine like this? I'd definitely be interested.
Hey Robert. Thanks for the kind words. I'm planning on doing a few short videos about the creation of different patterns, including theory, layout, and execution. The short answer about the crossing wheel is that I currently have 6 rosettes, all have a different number of sine waves (24, 36, 48, 60, 72, and 120.) I have three series of notches on the crossing wheel that correspond to the related pair of rosettes (24 and 48 for example.) The notches represent the distance between sine wave peaks on each rosette; 1/4 increments for the lower count and 1/2 for the higher count rosettes. So to make the notches for the 24 wave rosette, I set up my dividing head for 96 divisions around the circumference but only cut four notches. Since the rosette barrel spins independent of the spindle, the crossing wheel allows you to lock into repeatable positions, providing patterns that can twist towards the center, or for the example in the video allow for clockwise - anticlockwise steps to create a basketweave. Hopefully that provides a little more insight. I have no plans of creating blueprints for the machine, but I'm happy to answer any questions for someone who is building a rose engine.
Given the idea that these are sine waves, one can think of the phase as a number of turns added to x in the graph. I'll use 𝜏 (aka 2𝜋) to represent one turn, in radians (i.e. 360 degrees, with e.g. 𝜏/4 = 90°)... with that, and also a delta (which I'll represent with 𝑑) of, say, 1.5... if we were to then graph y0=sin(x+0𝜏/4)+0𝑑, y1=sin(x+1𝜏/4)+1𝑑, y2=sin(x+2𝜏/4)+2𝑑, y3=sin(x+3𝜏/4)+3𝑑 .... and so on, as far as we wish, we could see how these graphs stack up. If we change the numbers for 𝑑, that's changing the spacing between cuts (0.008" in the example, per 12:40 in the video), we can tweak how these stack up. (1.5 value for 𝑑 is an arbitrary number corresponding to, as it happens, 75% of the height of a sine curve (2 units), from peak (-1) to peak (1). How exactly that maps to the 0.008", I don't know, but think of them as equating in some direct way (𝑑=187.5 * 0.008", I suppose, but 187.5 has no specific meaning except as a translation between the abstract arbitrary units of the mathematics, and the real-world movements of the slide between cuts).)
So...... but that doesn't quite get to your question, so let's go a little further:
While the original numerator multiples of 𝜏, in potential integer values from 0 to 4 (though I stopped at 3) correspond to the 5 cuts on the crossing wheel (see 6:14/6:45). So 0 is no offset, 1𝜏/4 is "a quarter of a phase" as described, 2𝜏/4 is two quarter-phase shifts, etc., there's another option: If we were to add another variable, let's call it 𝑚, as a multiplier for all those phase fractions (so instead of, e.g., 3𝜏/4, it'd be 3𝑚𝜏/4), we can finally look at "the *relationship between the phase shift and the change that occurs in the engraved pattern* design", as per your question. Different values of 𝑚 will effectively give us the equivalent of a different pattern of cuts used.
Feel free to set up this set of functions in your favorite graphing calculator (or even do it by hand?!?)... or, I've actually done so in one I found online. I don't know if links will shop up here... in case not, I'll put the link in a separate comment. But if the link works, you should get some sliders that let you adjust 𝑑 and 𝑚, and also I through in a 3rd slider for 𝑤, which is a "width" multiplier (multiplying x by it before adding the phase offset, which I abstracted out as 𝑝=𝑚𝜏/4. I also did a few more instances, so we have 3 sine curves for each phase, to give a bigger sample of the visual pattern.
Hopefully the link will go through. I'll post it to twitter (my surname is my handle), too, in case it doesn't (look for a post late on November 9th, 2021... or a web search for «"lindes" "rose engine" "twitter"» (without «», but with the "s) will hopefully turn it up if someone sees this way in the future). But hopefully that's all moot, as it'll come through here. :D
Bummer. Looks like the link got killed... maybe it's just pending moderation and will show up. In case not, a bit of URL hacking adding the usual suspects (slashes in between parts, and expanding out the domain name.) to «desmos calculator wvxqb5dwgt» might also get you there. :)
P.S. Hmmm... not sure I know how to replicate the pattern at 17:28, though. Playing with 𝑚, 𝑑, and 𝑤 (including releasing some of them from constraints I'd previously set), I never got anything that looked quite like that basket weave. Perhaps because the shape on that template isn't really a sine wave? Anyway...
Thanks for the demo - I always wondered how these worked. Are those templates made of acrylic? Not sure if that's what they are called...
Hey Rick. The rosettes are laser cut acrylic.
Beutyfully
I think I missed a bit... how does the movement of the wheel on the rosette translate to movement of the cutter?
The cutter is fixed. The pattern on the rosettes oscillates the headstock, so the workpiece is moving while the cutter stays put.
Not to compare, but your channel doesn t have the recognition it deserves. I maybe just hope there was more content for us to enjoy! i guess in the mean time we'll just have to follow you on Instagram
I've seen those rose engines both new and old. The new ones seem far more simpler and smaller than their historical counterparts. What would you say is the reason for this?
I wouldn't say that's necessarily the case. Hall made rose engines in the early 1900's that are fairly compact, then you have the MADE rose engines which are modern and very robust. I think it really comes down to the use case for the machine. For engine turning, generally your work envelope is much smaller and rosette amplitude is much lower, but for ornamental turning (wood) you'd typically need a larger work envelope and higher amplitude rosettes.
Olds or Buick in background? Good video, you built a nice machine.
nice build and very cool work.. what are your thoughts doing it this way vs a cnc mill Joe
Hey Joe. People have been attempting to recreate guilloche on CNC mills for decades, the problem is that a rotating cutter will never provide as clean (and bright) of a cut as a fixed cutter. Some people have gotten better results by making custom setups to use a fixed cutter on CNC mills and pantographs. Personally, I prefer doing it the traditional way; it's therapeutic.
@@DMTiffanyTimepieces i understand perfectly... just dabbling in some old pocket watch movements i inherited should be a fun new adventure !! keep up the great work !
Why doesn’t he show each progression?
that momentary zoom tho
Hiwin linear rail?
How to make thr rose engine????
Great video thx for sharing.
Where did you buy the books and the name of them . I'd like to build one when I retire. I like watch dials as well as pens .
As I was watching the video, what shape is sharpening on you cutter.
Thx
Hey Gary, the two best references I would recommend would be "Watchmaking" by George Daniels and "Guilloché: A History & Practical Manual" by Calina Shevlin. They both go over the fundamentals of guilloche cutter geometry.
@@DMTiffanyTimepiecesthx for replying. I see you did so much effort making that beautiful machine. I know how much work it is because I'm tool and die maker myself. Is there market for that . Wish good luck .
Nice try AvE but you revealed your true identity @17:57
Use manual focus for things that don't move away from the camera much, you wont go wrong with that!
awesome info. but please disable autofocus
AT LAST A CURE FOR INSOMNIA 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴
Fuck...what can I say,lol
Guilloche:
Gwee- (l) yosh. Emphasis on the second syllable. No accent on the terminal 'e.'
I’m impressed with your patience and skill. I subscribed but then unsubscribed after reaching the end of the video-the F bombs ruined it for me. Praying for you!
17:57 😂
DMT
Could you not just laser engrave this in like 15 mins
No, you can't.
@@DMTiffanyTimepieces well your work is beautiful