Seaman Acquitted of Arson in Bonhomme Richard Fire | What Went Wrong & How the Ship Was Lost
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2022
- Seaman Acquitted of Arson in Bonhomme Richard Fire | What the Navy Did Wrong With the Fire
What's Going On With Shipping?
October 4, 2022
In this episode, Sal Mercogliano - maritime historian at Campbell University and former merchant mariner - examines the acquittal of Seaman Ryan Sawyer Mays on the charge of arson for allegedly starting the fire that led to the loss of USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6). This video also looks at the recent story by ProPublica on the fire, the punishments against other Navy and Department of Defense personnel, and what were the underlying issues that resulted it the loss of the ship.
#bonhommerichard #usnavy #fire
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Former Bonhomme Richard Sailor Ryan Sawyer Mays Acquitted of Arson
news.usni.org/2022/09/30/brea...
What's Going on With Shipping Bonhomme Richard Playlist
• Bonhomme Richard
USS Bonhomme Richard Fire - Was it Arson Or Widespread Safety Failures?
gcaptain.com/uss-bonhomme-ric...
Fight The Ship: Death and Valor on a Warship Doomed by its own Navy.
features.propublica.org/navy-...
Bonhomme Richard Command Investigation
www.secnav.navy.mil/foia/read...
U.S. Navy Hands Down Punishments Over Bonhomme Richard Fire
gcaptain.com/u-s-navy-hands-d...
US Navy Stonewalls Congress In Working Ship Reports
gcaptain.com/us-navy-lied-con...
"The navy's fixation on this sailor takes away from the bigger issue". I think that was the point of the prosecution.
Yhea a magic act, just a distraction from the real issues.
The US Navy had Nothing to do with this case. You complete Moron.
@@deth3021 nothing to sea here, "Move Along!" "NOW!"
Kabuki theater
Ll
@@davefellhoelter1343
As a US Navy Retired Sailor, it is not uncommon to find the quick scapegoat.
Apparently they can't even do that anymore.
I see that comment and USS Iowa springs to mind immediately.
At the lowest possible paygrade.
@@deth3021 good thing 🙏
Wonder if same in other armed forces..likely..and corporations...scapegoat Navy now in mind after all comments
This is such an echo of the turret explosion on the Iowa. By going after an individual sailor, the Navy is hopeful you're going to forget about the massive failings of the Navy.
CORRECT! THE CCP IS WATCHING?
I agree with your comment .
Kinda like how the d e m s want us laser-focused on the "bad orange man", in hopes you'll ignore their massive c o r r u p t i o n and r a d i c a l M a r x i s t agenda.
The crime was not in how the fire started but in how the fire was 'fought'.
and after! "damage control"
You just called it.
This why they have to find an enlisted scapegoat, to protect the command staff.
This prosecution was in keeping with the Navy's finest traditions: find an enlisted scapegoat, because officers couldn't _possibly_ have been at fault. It reminds me of the USS Iowa turret explosion in 1989, when they claimed a gunners mate triggered the explosion in order to commit suicide, to distract from the fact that his superiors were conducting crazy experiments with "supercharged" powder bags.
Makes me think of the despicable behavior of Marine leadership when a Marine was left to die in the California desert during exercises and the chain of command's action was to smear him as a deserter.
Wasn't there also a rumor about a "homosexual" love affair?
I'm reminded of another case where the Navy sought a scapegoat and dragged the name of a good sailor through the mud, the investigators thinking they could get away with it because the man was DEAD. Petty Officer Clayton Hartwig, Gun Captain, Center Gun, Turret Two of USS Iowa (BB 61.)
Sal, my last assignment was to a ship very similar to the BHR when we took her through an 18 Month long overhaul. Many of the conditions found in the BHR were also found in my ship, and yes we did have fires aboard. The difference was we had people who were on the ball and on those two occasions the people making the discovery of the fire FOUGHT IT from the outset after making the report. In both cases they had the fire confined and well on the way to being out BEFORE the Duty Section could get the Fire Party manned and ready.
Many of the same problems found in BHR were discovered, discarded cardboard packing cases and "peanuts" along with broken dry wood pallets in "Lower V," sections of Firemain isolated and out of service and the Halon 1301 systems in the Boiler Room and other spaces disabled for maintenance and upgrade.
Another difference was we had an aggressive fire prevention program that cleared the debris from "Lower V" as soon as the problem was found and recognized. We also TRAINED every damned day in firefighting, the ENTIRE duty section was the Fire Party. Even though we had nearly 1/3rd of the crew on detached duty to attend schools or provide support to the Shipyard (Norfolk Naval Shipyard's Day Care if you can believe that) we had everyone else on a 3 section watch rotation, not 4 or 5 sections as BHR seems to have had.
The more I learned about the backstory of the BHR fire, the more appalled I became. It shouldn't have happened as it did and as a retired Petty Officer First Class (Surface Warfare) I have to place responsibility for the loss of BHR squarely on the Chain of Command from the Leading Petty Officers through the Ship's Commanding Officer and up through the Amphibious Group Commander to Surface Forces Pacific (3 star Admiral I think.)
Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6) is being scrapped as I write this as is MY old ship, Nassau (LHA 4.) Nassau had been in the Reserve Fleet (mothballs) when BHR was burned out and there had been discussions at the Navy Department about possibly reactivating this tired 40 plus year old ship to replace BHR at least temporarily.
Sorry for the rant my friend, but this krap really angers me.
Well written testimony there. I was active duty deployed aboard CV-61 when the Iowa turret exploded, and so much more. Coverup and scapegoat is what they always do. So does everybody though. I know that aboard a civilian ship as a sort of crew/slave I would've been blamed for a fire had I not discovered and successfully extinguished it after some explosive drama. Dead or alive, they would've blamed me, and the ship had mostly children and no crew aboard. I had been made to train a group of men, to pretend they were crew for the Coast Guard Inspection.
Everything is corrupt.
@@danhaywood5696 I followed the Iowa investigation very closely. It's a very small world and very small NAVY at times. At the time of the turret explosion I was working with a young man who had been stationed in Turret #2 with Petty Officer Hartwig and knew him fairly well. We met Iowa when she first returned to Norfolk after the explosion and fire. He had lost over 40 shipmates and friends in that blast. As the rumor about Hartwig possibly using the explosion to commit suicide over a Gay relationship going wrong, my young seaman told me "NO F-ING WAY" could it have happened like that.
Eventually NCIS was forced to lay their cards on the table and either put up or shut up. They cleared Petty Officer Hartwig. The explosion truly was an accident, and not the first suffered by an American big gun ship though she was the last.
At least two, probably more battleships suffered turret explosions with similar loss of life, and if the "Flash Doors" between turret compartments and magazines hadn't been functioning as designed, the explosion and fires would have spread, very quickly resulting in the loss of the ship in an "ARIZONA" type of magazine explosion. Heavy Cruiser Newport News also suffered an explosion in her #2 turret with the loss of dozens of men and wrecking the turret. This had happened to other cruisers as well.
A as l
Agree completely - regardless of how it started the response to the fire and the lack of instituational fire fighting ethos within the ship and that that wasn't caught or accounted for at any level both within the ship and its command structure, above that and within the port is appaling the US Navy needs to take it on its chin learn from it and find the other ships because if it was happening on BHR it's happeninng somewhere else too!
I agree with your comment completely .
The Navy has a tradition of picking a scapegoat. The BH loss was caused by the BH’s command irresponsibility in mismanaging a ship
The US Navy had Nothing to do with this case. Moron.
The USS Bonhomme Richard is a painful metaphor for the state of the nation. Neglected and on fire, and people just standing by wondering if it is even worth fighting/taking risks to save.
It's about damn time
You are 100% right about the command structure: It was a commissioned vessel with a crew, the Captain was clearly aware his crew had failed 14 consequential fire drills and should have taken action to remediate (if the XO didn't execute on that, relieve him, etc). Captain should have been convicted of Dereliction of Duty, and the Captain's commanding officer should also have been severely punished for not ensuring his direct report was following up and fixing this critical issue.
I feature the Navy's top command structures are doing what businesses are doing - eliminating manpower and training on vessels to cut down on costs. Mission be damned.
I attended a presentation by the SDFD chief officer that was in charge of their response. He had a lot of "interesting" things to say about the Navy's response. He said the command duty officer didn't call the Captain. He texted him! The Captain didn't both to show up until a few hours later. I'm sure he got a nasty letter entered into his service record. He still retired as an O-6 and now makes more money in retirement than most of us will ever make.
Ya, take a ship from 6 duty sections to 3 duty sections if they fail fire drills and trust me, they'll figure out how to pass quick! That's the XO failure and like you said CO failure for not reileving the XO. This whole thing baffles me.
I mean if a duty section fails a drill you keep doing it until they pass! We had duty sections doing drills after the next working day and had to pass to go home!!!
That whole boat should have been on ‘Port & Starboard’ duty - just as my ship was when we jacked up drills in the shipyards.
I’m not gonna say we had a good Co (we didn’t) but any CO who wants to look for their boss finds a way to motivate the crew. And we were indeed motivated to not only get out of P&S but out of the shipyards altogether.
His decision to go with a bench trial was very smart. I had a family friend who lost his first (and only) command after a drunken fisherman rammed his DD leaving port. The BHR captain lost a $3B ship and didn't get relieved.
What a surprise. Vietnam era Navy vet here. Same old sea story. The brass largely skates, an enlisted swabbie is scapegoated on zero evidence, and the court martial board throws it out. The whole incident is then consigned to history and is generally forgotten, except for a page in Jane's and a Wikipedia article. Things never change.
I am sure that E1 is not the only young person no longer interested in being in the navy.
Just for this case, it has always been about protecting the ring knocker officers & blaming the lowest ranking person [who should not have been able to defend themself against such charges] . All those who share responsibilty have walked away for the most part scott free [oh there were a few harsh words posted, but that is all] and the co of the ship was with it till she was turned into razor blades & then allowed to retire with full benifits.
and as a Plank Holder.🤬
The important part is the commanders all support lgbxyz+, critical race theory and are always careful to use correct pronouns The proper and critical priorities were all met by them. Obviously you're a racist homophobe. /sarc
Your the Captain of a ship. On the mid-watch. You are sound asleep, in your stateroom. Suddenly your slammed into the forward bulkhead. Ship obviously ran into something while the Captain was in his rack. The young sailor at the helm, was an idiot who wasn't paying attention. He steers the ship into an Iceberg. Who is going to be held most at fault? Who is responsible and who will be held accountable? Not the one who caused the mess. Captain picked the wrong time to sleep.
@@patrickfarrell6353 the helmsman might be an idiot, but the captain is still the one who placed that person there (directly or indirectly). So yeah the helmsman is directly responsible, but the captain's fault is significantly beyond "picking the wrong time to sleep".
@@georgepdogg2365 Yes and as a man you are also expected to sacrifice your life on top of that to protect a society that hates you...
As someone who has a degree in Fire Protection and have been a member and officer of a suburban Volunteer Fire Dept for over 45 years Thing that gets me the most is 1) No waterline for fire protection on U.S. Navy piers on a Naval Base and 2) that the on base Professional Fire Fighters were not trained in shipboard firefighting and that they did not have adapters and a pre-plan for water suppy . I am amazed at the total lack of fire protection on U. S. Government Bases which I had allways assumed that fire protection would be top level design and capabilties boy was I wrong .
Insurance writeoff. It's cheaper to build a new one than refit it anyhow, right?
@@fortusvictus8297 The only "insurance" that the BHR had is that lovely tax income from all us peasants.
@@tgmct 😂 trudat
@@fortusvictus8297 No insurance for a warship my friend. Just our tax dollars wasted.
Same thing with disabled systems and subsystems. For each individual item disabled, there should have been a substitution or backup coverage instituted and documented and explained to all involved.
I have had two fires on board vessels I was supervising in drydock; one an engine room where oil soaked lagging was ignited by welding nearby, the other was a winch room fire during installing new winches. The engine room had the potential to get out of hand as we had to "chase" the fire up the lagging as the lagging was opened up to fight the fire. Innitally they were trying to use CO2 but bring hoses to bear kept the fire under control and eventually extinguished.
The winch room fire was quite interesting; I arrived on the scene to find the yard supervisor arguing with one of the installing engineers about what medium to use to as the engineer was concerned about the electronics they were put in. Fire main was pressurised, so whilst they were getting into a more heated debate I got the ship's crew to rig a hose and a spray nozzle to put the fire out. Yes, the new electronics were damaged but at least the fire was confined and then put out.
It did knock a hole in my budget, delayed the ship's departure by about a week but at least I wasn't up to my eyeballs in paperwork trying to defend the lost of the ship.
I was a young MM3, fifty years ago, on a Sumner Class Destroyer (DD-821) in Philadelphia for overhaul. All the MM1's & MM2's had transferred, or discharged, leaving me 'in charge of aft engineroom. We had various cutters removing fuel oil lines, the Chief Engineer came down and started chewing my butt about smoking in the engineroom while there was fuel oil in the bilge (it had been there the 18 months I'd been aboard!). While he was chewing, a shipyard burner came up from the lower level and patiently waited for him to end. After the Engineer finished and walked away, the burner leaned over to tell me that (ahem) there was a fire in the bilge!
We went down, it was a piece of lagging (asbestos) about an Inch around, that had wicked up enough fuel oil to catch on fire from the burners torch! Just lazily floating through the bilge, like a floating candle, cute!
I took a broom handle and pushed it under water.
The ship was safe, and didn't burn at the dock😃!
@@brucelytle1144 Thanks for the little story Bruce and the take away from it? You actually did something! I too share Al's frustration that the ship was lost for the want of a pressurised fire hose and a crew who knew what to do. Stay safe over your side of the Pond.
A USAN Officer once asked a Royal Navy Officer, "What's it like working alongside the biggest Navy in the world?" He answered with his own question, "What's it like working with the best Navy in the world?" Both navies are trained to a high level, but things do still go wrong. Thanks, Sam, for another great upload.
Happy that justice has prevailed. What a surprise!
It's obvious that the guilty wear a lot of (undeserved) decoration on their shoulders.
Sal, thanks for bringing this to light. Once again big Navy smacks down Seaman Timmy while all the officers write themselves up for Legions of Merit. So many things wrong. One of the things I blame is the idiocy of the ESWS program. When I qualified, one of the first Navywide, there were distinct PQS standards to be met. Now you sit in a class and get your ticket punched. No fire stations? There was a huge fire pump system across the pier in the form of a pair of DDGs. Why were they not used? Jumper to an AFFF hicap station and like you said, flood Lower V. Instead, the gundecking ESWS crowd abandoned ship. Then to blame a poor non rate just like the hosejob they pinned on Clayton Hartwig. At least the defense had the forethought to be tried by a judge:. Going to a full court martial would have found him guilty. No officer would acquit him for fear of their own career.
Dr.. Sal, stay on this.. HARD!!!!!
Let's remember that the Wierd Room takes care of its own.
About time. This one of very few pieces of good news I've seen about the Bonhomme Richard fire. The ship's motto, "I have not yet begun to fight", is an unintentionally perfect description of the (lack of) fire fighting effort by her officers and crew.
20 years in the Navy, I would be ashamed if there was a fire that got away for that long. We made sure there was a firefighting team onboard (or nearby) at all times, even during major overhauls.
The Flying Squad was always on duty on the carriers (3) I served on.
Even as a Assembler/Machinist and Inspector, I was a member of the Fire Watch and knew where to and how to shut down all of the Flammables and Power sources, calling in Hazmat vehicles and personnel and getting people out of harm's way. If it was nuclear, you couldn't move until cleared of any possible radiation on you or in the area was contained.
Yes, this is uncalled for, for 5 days.
Apparently, it's not the same Navy you retired from.
That ProPublica article that Sal refers to is pure dynamite and makes one wonder whether the Navy is going to take this seriously enough to make some necessary changes.
At this point, it looks as though high-status Naval officers are concentrated on CYA techniques, rather than living up to their responsibilities.
Leadership culture in this country today seems to be focused on thoroughly exploiting the perks of one's status and fulfilling one's ambitions while keeping handy scapegoats around to throw under the bus when things go wrong.
That was your navy, this is today’s navy. Obama destroyed the military and Biden is continuing the trend
If it really was a Li-Ion battery storage area (especially Li-ion forklift batteries) there was no way the fire would be brought under control with water. Actually, a sprinkler or manual water hose would have only made the fire worse.
You should get the text to Captain notifying “Your ship is on fire💩” make a What the Ship T-Shirt out of it.
Yes Steve, the Navy failed miserably on this event, happy this sailor was found not guilty. Good job young man. The Captain should be held responsible.
Good to hear the E1 actually was found innocent. Kind of surprised actually, but glad. Heads needed to roll for this travesty, but parties actually responsible walked with a nasty letter in their file and for some a slightly lighter wallet. This really chaps my hide. I can still remember the smell that lasted for days. Thanks for the update Sal.
The BHR was 4 billion, not 1.5 billion. To repair the ship and bring her back to combat ready would have cost 7 billion and approximately 5 to 6 years of ship yard work.
It would be cheaper to build a new one and it will take less resources to do so.
Even cheaper to invest in some training.
It was Clayton Hartwig all over again. Inconveniently for the Navy, Seaman Mays didn't die in the fire. So NO, I am not in the least surprised that the Navy went after the E1. I spent 20 years in the Navy and was heavily involved in firefighting training. I was a Locker Leader on the USS Ranger.
Again, Spot-On Sal. I never had the honor of military service. I was a LEO for 28+ years. Even in law enforcement, if one of my Deputies had a major fail in his performance, I worked to resolve that issue. We didn't merely assign blame & set up a gallows. I have seen too many times in other industries where someone "junior" gets tagged inappropriately with a scarlet letter so the higher-ups can point an accusing finger at them rather than at THER failures. Kep up the great work at keeping all of us mere mortals informed in the world of seafarers.
An admiral in charge of firefighting?? When I was still in the power industry every control room in the Western States interconnection had a prominently displayed document stipulating that ultimate authority rested in the shift supervisors. As a supervisor I didn't have to ask permission to take any action I deemed necessary to avert disaster or mitigate for any event on the grid that could adversely affect the interconnection. I didn't have to consult with the line managers; their sole responsibility was to write reports, advise Dept of Energy, and facilitate my goals.
The letter on the wall WAS my permission. And the reason WECC stipulated that each utility empower it's on-shift supervisors with total control was events similar to the BHR fire -- delayed action while the supervisor consulted with management, with disastrous outcomes.
Part of the problem is you no longer get promoted for doing your job well. You have to do a bunch of things that have nothing to do with your job to get promoted, or even to stay in.
it was ever this, kiss ass and never disagree with the boss.
Alot rise to their level of incompetence
Very true. During my time enlisted I saw the shift from military knowledge and performance to politics as the route to advancement for both officers and enlisted. So unfortunately I find none of what happened very surprising.
There's been political promotions to less qualified people as long as there's been militaries.
@@ericvulgate
I've seen and read about sexual preferences or inclusion of, also in advancements, or not.
I was married to a firefighter and knew what you were describing. Shame on the powers that were supposed to be just that. Good conversation. Thanks, Sal.
I can not imagine 14 fire drill failures without consequences, and the lack of basic knowledge of fire fighting.
The more you describe what happened, the more dejected I become. I was in the military for a short time some 60 years ago and remember the attitudes you describe. I had hoped things had changed.
Retired Canadian sailor, on joining the navy everyone does Damage Control School. 1 week devoted to fire fighting, then at least once a year. Duty watches get one emergency per duty day. From Captian to lowest sailor knows fire fighting, as a Hull-Tech AKA Damage Controlman we're expected to lead and control fire teams in our 2nd rank level in Canada. As you said this disaster was caused by fault of leadership at ALL levels.
The response was botched from the beginning. A sailor reported the fire to the quarterdeck and they told him/her to not worry about it. Another sailor reported it a few minutes later. The quarterdeck had a similar response. They didn't send anyone to check out these reports. When they finally did, they found the reports of a fire were 100% dead on. Fed Fire responded as did SDFD under mutual aid. As the video says, it took forever to get water on the fire. None of this should have happened. This incident should have been nothing more than a log entry. Instead, it was allowed to get out of control and destroy an irreplaceable asset.
The Normandie disaster is actually a good example of admirals directing fire response. The architect of the ship was in NYC at the time, and tried to convince the commandant’s office that they were fighting the fire wrong. He was ignored.
Vice Admiral Adolphus Andrew does deserve the bulk of the blame.
The ''leadership'' of our military is just reflected in this situation.
I am a Navy brat and Air Force veteran. While in high school, we were stationed at PSNS in Bremerton, WA. We lived in one of the huge white. houses along 'Captain's Row'. In front of those houses was a panoramic view of the heart of the shipyard, including piers and dry-docks. Fires aboard ships happened frequently, sometimes they were very large and concerning. It is a fact of working around ships with flammable material around while welding, gouging, acetylene torches, and other sources of flames were everywhere.
Sal, thank you for this breakdown! Every failure of ship’s command and procedures notwithstanding, NCIS’s ham fisted investigation, like their handling of the Fat Leonard case, screams for a complete overhaul of that agency.
I was a Navy Damage Controlman, Desert Storm. Fire on board ships are far more common than people think. I think the duty section, Duty fire marshall, Duty engineer, and CDO, should all be fried for loosing the ship.
The Navy scapegoating an E-1 while senior and flag officers take no real accountability. This is a dark day in naval history.
It's standard Navy procedure.
@@chrisl2632 It may be SoP in the USN but this kind of BS if FUBAR and should be changed ASAP even if it takes PFM to make it happen. This SNAFU attitude just leads from one BOHICA situtation to another.
USS Kansas City can be seen putting water on BHR using her hoses. All of San Diego smelled like a blown transformer for a week.
I also remember they were giving other ship crews a rour to show what a fire unchecked can do.
She was berth nearby.
An example from the civilian side of impairing a fire hose/ sprinkler system in a public building that had to remain in service during construction activities, we had the following SOP.
Get permission from Operations, notify local fire department of impairment so they would know what systems would be available or out of service if they had to respond, and have fire watch with radio communication to Operations the entire time system was impaired. This would be the bare minimum. If impairment was to be severe, fire department might choose to station pumper on site just in case. All of this had to be planned prior to any impairment.
The fact that none of these type of measures was done is mind blowing.
Trying to blame the loss of the BHR on an E1 is par for the course.
Good analysis. I was in the Navy in the 70s during which I was involved in an engine room fire; lube oil spraying on 900 degree steam lines. Smoke, fire, slippery deck, oil all over, it was a mess. We had it out in 20 minutes, with the engine crew directing the fire party. All the fire school training came to the fore. What's happened to by beloved fleet !!!
Top brass saving face. I spent from 1999-2003 onboard USS John C. Stennis, a swim away from the BHR, and I do not recognize their safety standards.
The ship was lost because the Captain treated the overhaul as "vacation time" for the crew.
It wasnt just that there wasnt enough people onboard to fight a fire , there wasnt enough for basic security...so the contractors started looting the ship.
Brass handles were removed from the fire fighting stations and brass fittings cut off the ends of the hoses , damage control lockers were stripped of gear that could be used or resold.
So even if there had been enough people to man the fire fighting stations , very few stations were in an operational state.
This was not unusual behavior for contractors either , this was a known issue back in the 1980's when I served , you never leave a ship unguarded when cobtractors are onboard.
Training came to a complete halt so untrained people were magically deemed "qualified" to man critical posts so senior people could have more days off between watches.
So the people controlling the automatic fire suppression system didnt know how , or when, to activate it.
And then you had Admirals who knew the ship was basically unmanned and didnt step in to "correct" the Captain's bad decisions.
About JP5 into the pot water system. Back in the late 1970's, the Enterprise also had jet fuel leak into the freshwater system, while we were at sea. To provide a little context, the fresh water system provides not only drinking water, but also water for washing the jets, steam for catapults, water for the reactor, water for the propulsion system, etc.
When this happened to us, the parts of the freshwater system that weren't contaminated were dedicated first to the reactor and propulsion, then to washing the jets. The contaminated parts of the freshwater system were then flushed, and those tanks were used for pot water and other uses of water aboard ship. Even though the tans were flushed, we could taste jet fuel for weeks whenever we had a drink of water. Also, fresh water is used for the showers. While the freshwater tanks were being refilled, which takes a while, the crew was put on water hours for the only time that I had on the Enterprise. Normally, a nuc ship makes so much fresh water that excess is pumped overboard.
So they fuck up:
keeping a tight ship,
having trained crew in prober firefighting,
fighting a fire itself,
comanding said fire fight and
now to probably scap goat their misstakes...
man the navi isnt what it used to be ;P
You got that right. When I was in 1970-1979 on diesel subs , it was train , train , train and then train some more . The Capitan is this poor ship is the one responsible. Lack of proper leadership . - no training regime !
Junior Enlisted are treated like Sh*t anymore; that's how it was even when I was in back in '06
That's ATF for you..."We couldn't find any evidence of arson, but we're going to say it's arson anyway."
THAT'S F-Troop logic.😮😮
Excellent report Sal…, it is so damn disgusting on a level that is just beyond comprehension, that the managment, commanding, supervising, and many other aspects, were so lax… One incident of many.
Great video,
Thank you sir…
I've seen other videos from RUclipsrs who are merchant seafarers showing their regular firefighting training. It looks like all crew not actually on watch practice getting suited up and accessing a compartment with full equipment. They even get the hoses going, discharging outboard, to make sure that everyone knows how it's all meant to work.
I thought that the Navy was supposed to have the best standards of training? Even the Russian Navy took a few hours to lose the Moskva, and that was after a couple of missile hits!
Whatever happened to the damage control and firefighting skills that saved the Forrestal and the Franklin?
What do you do with a Li-ion storage fire if your ship is not hooked up to water and does not have chemicals onboard?
@@fortusvictus8297 you don't have lions on board unless the storage space is retrofitted with with a CO2 system. These systems aren't cheap (but not unreasonably expensive, I've been in historic document libraries with them installed and if the alarms go off, you gtfo of the pod you're in within 30 seconds or die, but they are a steal compared to replacing a $7B ship.
@@katem2411 I think that lower V is open to the atmosphere, so a CO2 system is somewhat usless in this location. The bottom line is that large scale Li-ion batteries shouldn't be allowed on board.
As a 24 year Navy veteran, I can tell you why this happened. The U.S. government has turned the armed forces into a social experiment. With an unhealthy dedication towards diversity, equality and inclusion instead of training to fight and accomplish the mission. I retired in 2006, it was already happening then. The Bonhomme Richard debacle, is a typical example of those results. I’m afraid we will see many more examples until we shift our focus back to training to fight and taking care of our People.
AMEN! and "Bingo"
The text to the CO was probably "🚢🔥🤷♂"
your coverage on this topic has been fantastic
1:15 Agree: The crew's readiness to fight fire needed to be central issue.
3:35 Wow - not getting past an Article 32 hearing, and then STILL charging him?! That's pretty desperate.
I've had my head under a financial rock learning macro and RE, hard to believe I didn't hear about this and it happened in my town. Of course, if it happened in June or July I'm in AK and out of reach of much news.
Thanks Sal
If my ship failed fire drills we'd go from 6 duty sections to 3 duty sections long before we failed 14 drills! Our ship always came out of NASSCO yards with higher training readiness than going in with every different CO & XO. A yard period is no excuse for training readiness. It's actually a huge opportunity to cycle your sailors through shore based fire fighting training over on "dry side" San Diego. I wonder if COVID turned yard periods into extended stand down periods? I remember very long hours while in yards. Something seems wrong at a fundimental and systematic level.
Text to inform a ship's captain that his ship is on fire. Something like the rebuke Halsey got during the invasion of the PI. "Where is Task Force 34, the whole world wonders."
Thank you for your good reporting.
I think we need someone of Admiral Ernest King's stature to clean the Navy's house!
Can the US Navy defend the USA?
After what happened to the Russian Army, I seriously wonder about our own military.
🌟Gold Star Sal🌟. Including the reference articles along with your series will serve history. The Iowa turret explosion lacks the reporting you have provided.
Yes, all the links provided..Thanks Sal
The decisions on where to store material, segregation of items, poor organization of the fire parties, lack of understanding of shipyard firefighting procedures and not following the NSTM 555 were the cause of the loss of BHR. The loss is the responsibility of all who were onboard, the crew at large, the contractors and those responsible to oversee the shipyard work (SWRMC).
A fire on a weekend duty day in the shipyard was my greatest concern when CDO on a CVN in San Diego. The other issue was the prolonged time they had been in a maintenance period. You lose your edge and motivation when your ship is torn to pieces, looks like a garbage pile and you aren’t really doing what the Navy is about (going to sea, flying aircraft and landing marines, in this case). One sailor can start the accident chain, but many, many links had to be fractured in order to be catastrophic.
great description of the events, thank you......Paul in Florida
GOOD! Because, as a former enlisted man, that sounded like some ass-covering by some, apparently, incompetent leadership anyway.
And in addition, what with all of he trouble finding recruits these days, there goes a potentially good Sailor along with a crap-load of his friends and others that hear about this.
An excellent summation of a very serious event. This could have resulted in serious loss of life! It does not do the professional standing of the US Navy any good.
Great video Sal
They did this on the USS Iowa when the turret blew. I was on the Iowa before it blew up and was a Plank Owner. I knew what happen before they came to the conclusion, it was and accident cause by lack of training. I was lucky that on the ship that this didn't happen to us. When we got assigned aboard of it, the training was a low priority but cleaning was at the highest. At the time of the explosion there was a crew change with most of the older trained sailors was replaced by fresh new one like us. Again cleaning was a priority and it came first and training was last. When I was on it we were told we would get training underway. For some jobs on ship you could get away with that, but others you could not and it came to be!
Very sad, the whole affair. The firefighting was terrible, the old man basically wasn’t punished.
Excellent Commentary... Well Done, Sir
Why the E1? A Civi burned up the USSN Miami in a ship yard. in New Hampshire .. They look for lone rangers..
I have a Nephew who joined the Navy a number of years ago. I find it VERY hard to believe that the crew didn't know how to fight a fire on their ship. That is what the bulk of my Nephews initial training covered. EVERYONE FIGHTS THE FIRE, and they are taught HOW to fight a fire on a ship.
Thank you Sal!
Typical government diversion from the real issue…….same with Snowden or any other whistleblowers😂
This situation is yet another example of the Navy needing to somehow blame someone for their catastrophe. The first rule in this situation is to blame the very lowest ranking person in the food chain where there is a good chance that the senior officers will come out of it relatively unscathed. Ok, the senior officers in this situation will all be passed over, but so what! They all have more than 20 years in service and will be retired with a handsome pension.
Now let’s compare this to the railroaded Seaman Recruit. Normally, he would probably be a Petty Officer by now or shortly to come. His life has been absolutely terrible for the last two years and will probably be just as bad for the next two as well where there are some indelible stains in his service record that will not be expunged. Let’s also remember that he spent three months in the brig at San Diego; the absolute worst place on that navy base. If he wants to get out, the Navy should allow him to do so under honorable conditions with a whole lot of back pay.
The aftermath of this situation has so far proven that the Navy has, yet again, learned next to nothing. Commanding Officers and CDO’s are no better trained to handle any emergency while ashore. The command duty sections are similarly no better equipped and I doubt that much of anything will realistically change.
Like its said in the Army 'Shit rolls Downhill' . The senior officers opted for the easiest track - blame the little guy. I don't know what budgetary constraints had to do with this disaster but losing a 1.5 billion dollar asset is not the solution.
Well said, Sal.
I fully agree with you. With that mush of the fire fighting hose systems being not connected ( WHY were so many not connected? Stupidity is what I smell).....The AFFF should have been set off instantly out of natural response by any of the leading PO's with proper fire fighting training. As soon as the news broke out, I was questioning every report about the failures.... I was on the fire fighting team on my first ship,,, an LSD home ported in SD. WE were taught very well and wanted to be challenged even more with each "fire" we fought at the fire fighting school. We knew that OUR ship was our responsibility come hell or fire. Heads need to roll after investigations of the training the crew got and why so many failures of the fire drills... no excused acceptable what so ever!
very informative.
BINGO, BINGO BINGO You nailed it. You have on a ship in drydock with all the extra shore assets and you can't put out the fire in 4 days. How the heck do you fight a fire at sea? I worked for a major oil company and it seems we have better procedures in our burn/welding permit process than the Navy had. As a taxpayer this is appalling to lose a ship this way (Only worse recently was the loss of the F 313 frigate Helge Ingstad in Norway. Side swiped by the failure to navigate so they abandoned their ship. Then it is tied up improperly against the shoreline and days later sinks to the top of the radar antenna, this all within a proximity to Bergen where extensive ship building repair facilities)
I concur with your assessment, using the E-1 as the scape goat.
Question this E-1 be compensated for Punitive Damages and emotional distress, having to clear his name for his Life time?
The System should be held accountable for the traumatic outcome of the accords.
I fully agree with all the points of failure you have pointed out. The lack of training and leadership is unforgivable. Now it may seem that the higher ups got off with a wrist slap, but letters of censure and reprimand are likely career ending for the recipient.
Bonhomme Richard, 1779- I have not yet begun to fight: Bonhomme Richard, 2020- I have not yet begun to burn.
IT IS (SAD) THAT ADMIRALS IN THE U.S. NAVY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT FIRE BOATS DO OR CAN DO!!!
8:48 "Uh, Skipper? The boat done caught fire!" 🤯🥵🔥
Dr. Sal, great report and analysis. Federal and military prosecutors are out of control chasing ghosts of innocent. This is indicative of larger problems in Military and Federal prosecution.
Again, GREAT JOB!🏆
Some info about you saying that AFFF would had put out the fire, but remember there was no firemain water on the ship to run the AFFF system. Every time we went into a upkeep/repair along the pier. not a shipyard there were extra fire station on board and had fire/smoke zones to keep smoke spreading to other area of the ship.
Great show Sal, proof no one is believing the scapegoat bs. Navy not needing fireboats, that's just smarts. Start with the Captain's incompetence and end with the Admiral...
Feels like false advertising calling it a firefight.... more like a fire unconditional surrender and appeasement.
They definitely acted as if the fire were an apparition of "Saint Fentanyl Floyd" leading a Wakandan Army charge.
@@ligmasack9038 just begs the question when they were planning to start fighting... or if the ships motto was more about fighting court marshals and admiral masts than fires.
Then it makes sense, as they were very successful at fighting those.
@@deth3021 Officers and Senior Enlisted almost never see punishment, as it would be detrimental to the Enlisted to see that Officers are just about useless; but most Enlisted already knew that.🧐
Just like the Iowa turret accident, blame theE1. Brass used to step up, when an admiral called Burke and asked what he was doing cutting thru mined waters, he replied “about 31 knots sir”. If you don’t take charge, you loose charge and that is civilian world too.
I respect you sal! 💯
The worst thing is that the very basics of fighting a shipboard fire was not observed. No one isolated the fire by shutting the doors, hatches and vents right across the ship. Fires can't spread if the below spaces are closed and isolated. It seems that the whole ship was open.
Thanks!
Welcome!
The Navy needs to stop making every decision from its groin
Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.
Hyman G. Rickover
Look what happened aboard the Iowa after the explosion in turret 2 when the Navy tried to make a scapegoat of Clayton Hartwig. The Navy has a bad track record of this.
Imagine the chaos in a combat situation
How many bungles, mishaps and strange incidents has the Navy had in the past decade? My favorite was the Aircraft Carrier Commander that wrote an OP ED in a major paper about how he needed to come into port because of Covid. That pretty much sums up the state of affairs. It's scary actually and makes me wonder if these aren't actually foreign influenced actors, the alternative being a level of incompetence that demands court martials across the board.
I'm convinced Crozier was part of the plan-demic. He didn't consult his boss down the hall from him and goes direct to the San Francisco Chronicle.
I was on a wooden hulled minesweeper.
We we super concerned with the possibility of a fire on board.
Especially in a drydock.
The Navy lost a sweep on the East coast from an engineroom fire.
Very diffucult to put out once it starts!
I spent four years in deck department aboard an amphib carrier and I am not one bit surprised that they’d try to throw an E1 under the bus to save their own careers.
As a retired professional fire rescue employee, I can say, at night a lot of times under the bunker gear pants we were wearing just underwear on EMS calls, referred to them as our EMS pajamas.
There is no smoking in berthing areas on a ship for a number of decades. There are designated smoking areas normally on a catwalk area. But never in the ship or hangerbays.
Former USN GMG/M '67 to '73, E4 ... RVN/Westpac ... Even when my last command was Captained by a man who was addicted to amphetamines (it ultimately led to his loss of command) ... he drilled the ship and crew constantly!!!! Every man aboard knew what to do, when to do it, no matter where onboard you were, at any time! It was not uncommon for a senior P.O., or any brown shoe for that matter to stop someone in a passageway, and ask things like "where is the closest fire extinguisher / hose cabinet / etc." You had better know the correct answer too! Duty days, and/or shore leave days were at risk!! As we were both Nuclear powered, and capable, there also were plenty of high security drills as well. "The life of you, your shipmates, and the entire survival of the ship depend on you knowing these things - LEARN THEM"!! OR ELSE!!!!!
What the hell happened to my Navy? Wokeism appears to be rampant, and it is killing a great institution.
*As a former E-4 medic in the Army the Bonhomme Richard fire is a clear case of a MASSIVE failure in leadership. Leadership is ALWAYS a top down issue, and NEVER a bottom up issue.*
*EVERY single FUBAR that I experienced, witnessed, or heard about during my three years in the United States Army could be 100% attributed to a huge top down failure in leadership, with the commissioned officer ranks usually being more at fault than the senior enlisted ranks, though occasionally the reverse was true.*
Why did we not hear this criticism more widely in mainstream media? How do such obvious failures not get reported? I live in San Diego and heard nothing other than arson.