Can police demand your phone pin code, or for you to unlock it?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2023
- Join my new channel: @DanielShenSmith
Can police demand your phone pin code, or for you to unlock it? Always seek formal advice if you're in this situation!
£50 Free for switching Energy suppliers:share.octopus.energy/happy-hu... Sponsored!)
Join for exclusive content at blackbeltbarrister.com/
Become a Channel member: / @blackbeltbarrister
Support the channel: buy.stripe.com/14kdUS6gb4f26e...
or one-off: buy.stripe.com/bIYdUSfQLcLy7i...
TO CONTACT ME: Follow & Message on Instagram:
/ blackbeltbarrister
Media/Advertising requests: contact@blackbeltbarrister.com
For FORMAL ADVICE Requests ONLY:
clerks@ShenSmith.com (non formal requests will be deleted)
💌 Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @blackbeltbarrister
MY CAMERA GEAR
🎥 Big Camera amzn.to/3Nhbvll (amazon link)
🎥 Small Camera amzn.to/49P3ugM (amazon link)
🎙 RODE VIDEOMic Pro+ amzn.to/3QSnTJg (amazon link)
Gobe ND Filter amzn.to/40OsRLE (amazon link)
Neewer Ring Light amzn.to/46oiLCr (amazon link)
Switch Pod amzn.to/3ut9JXG (amazon link)
JOBY Gorilla Tripod amzn.to/40QBEgn (amazon link)
External Media Drive amzn.to/40Q6QMx (amazon link)
Peak Design Travel Carbon Tripod amzn.to/46u20Wq (amazon link)
Peak Design iPhone Tripod amzn.to/47DzTFg (amazon link)
Aputure Amaran 200x S amzn.to/47zFHQe (amazon link)
Aputure RGB amzn.to/3sTpgPQ (amazon link)
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
I'm a Barrister of England and Wales.
Videos for educational guidance only, Always seek advice before taking action. Videos on my channel are not legal advice and should not be taken as such. I accept no liability for any reliance placed upon the content of these videos or references, therein.
#blackbeltbarrister #lawyer #barrister
Description contains affiliate links; I will occasionally earn commissions from qualifying purchases or leads generated. Description may contain affiliate or sponsored links, for which we may receive commissions or payment.
Join me on my new channel all about Money and creating wealth! ruclips.net/channel/UCrAiEktBDfCu_-Ha0x6VWHQ
and Secrets: ruclips.net/channel/UCo0vc7B3CQi-NGJsCnvwfKA
Very recent example from this month:
Craig Murray - (X: @CraigMurrayOrg) - Historian and human rights activist. Former British Ambassador - Journalist - Ex Head of the FCO Section of the Embargo Surveillance Centre and worked full time on stopping Iraqi weapons procurement.
Quotes:
"I was "detained" under Section 7 of the Terrorism Act and told all this:
I was "detained" as potentially involved in terrorism. I was not "arrested", therefore:
I had no right to a lawyer
I had no right to remain silent
To refuse to give a full answer to any question was a criminal offence
To refuse to give the passwords for my devices was a criminal offence
To attempt to leave was a criminal offence.
--
(Q: Were you in a port or controlled border location?)
Yes I was at Glasgow airport
Monday, Glasgow Airport.
--
(Q: Presume this took place before actual entry into the UK, before you crossed the passport barrier?)
No, immediately after
--
Among the specific questions I was asked in my interrogation under the Terrorism Act were:
Did I receive money from Wikileaks?
Did I receive money from Don't Extradite Assange?
Did I receive money from the Assange family?
The answer to each was No. But how is this "terrorism"?
--
The police specifically told me I had no right to a lawyer. They released me after 59 minutes when apparently they would have had under the Terrorism act to tell me I had the right to a lawyer after 60.
--
The police have now returned my laptop - which I will have forensically examined and then sadly bin - but kept my phone for further examination.
Which surprises me as I am very old fashioned and just use my phone, well as a phone."
Can the Police confiscate/keep your while applying for the relevant order?
I'm a telecoms engineer and my equipment laptop and phone have sensitive information which is not mine to share infarct it could be deemed in the interest of nation security. Would this change this situation? Thx
They can not make you incriminate yourself. You do not even need to talk to them, let alone give them your phone or code.
If a magistrate is foolish enough to prosecute you, you can easily get it overturned in the high court.
@@41istair Police stations have been told not to abuse the draconian terrorism act. It doesn't seemed to of been heard.
My parents are both retired police officers from South Yorkshire Police. Both have told me on numerous occasions, "never do anything without a solicitor present."
They liars. Soliciting is unlawful.
They're snitches
So your parents are both disgusting tax bleeding pigs who serve an entity that bully’s victims, lies and manipulates for their own good
Scum
@@didgecat2708 😂
Like at the roadside? No solicitor is going to come out and sit with u in the car lol
Guilty people need lawyers. Innocent people need them more.
Never talk to the police without a lawyer! They are after a conviction!
Had me in the first half there
10% at least of those behind bars are innocent / framed
@@patrickcannell2258just go "NO COMMENT" all the way
Never a truer word written.
I work for a bank and get lots of calls from our customers saying they have fraud on their accounts, which came from say Apple, Google, or Samsung Pay; they then go on to say the police have had their phones for the last 6 months… tells its own story !
Indeed, the pigs steal, and sell card numbers to gangs
Do you repay the customer or mug them off?
Nobody trusts banks either.
The financial crisis of 2007 had a massive effect on ordinary lives. I would say moreso than covid. Much more so
Did they ask for the phone back?
Been falsley arrested twice and strongarmed during interview,one decent copper said i was being "railroaded" won't go into the nature but the cps literally laughed at it and everything was dropped no apologies whatsoever,personally i wouldn't give them the time of day.
"strong-armed", "railroaded" what in the United States is that terminology? you wouldn't know what the CPS literally did or didn't do in the situation since it's done via email or other electronic means, the only real time Police generally liaise with CPS in person or on a phone is when it's a really urgent case and on the day at court. Police talk way more with defence solicitors than they do prosecutors.
save all settings (preferably to Usb stick or cloud server in Bogata) then factory reset and fill memory with AV. Then have friend change the Pin so you genuinely don't know it. Then sell/give away device so you don't even have it.
@@obiitom strong armed and railroaded are idioms from the USA.
Do you write fiction books as well?
I wouldn't give them steam off my shit on a cold morning!
So basically, If PC Plod walks up to you in the street and demands your PIN you can refuse. A notice signed off by a judge is needed and would have to be given to you in order to compel you to provide the PIN. That is what I understood from this video.
You’re obviously not a Solicitor, you succinctly condensed a 4 1/2 minute video down to a couple of sentences 👍😂😊
@@usul2542 but - yes
He may be one if he still charges £380 per hour with min 1 hour charge.
@@usul2542
@JohnDoe404_ He wasn't being rude. He was praising the first poster for having summarised the facts of the matter in two sentences where it took the big-brained barrister five minutes of repetitive waffling to come to the same conclusion. His point was that only a non-lawyer can be that correct and so concise.
Yes, this Black Belt Barrister certainly likes to repeat lots of rhetoric.@@dizwell
Do the same consequences apply in reverse?
When the police fail to provide evidence such as bodycam footage because it's been "lost" or "deleted", does somebody face the possibility of up to 5 years in prison?
Yeah, thought not.
Do we even know that are we allowed access to the CCTV cameras and ofcourse thier pins if any
CCTV doesn't have a pin code.
@terenceherming1838 There's an investigation ongoing into a police officer turning off his camera just before thumping someone at a demo. It's also emerged that incriminating footage has been routinely deleted AFTER the cameras have been handed in.
@@fus149hammer5 There are plenty of videos showing cops muting the microphone and/or turning off their body cams just before/after they abuse/assault you. The worst ones are the the females that know their male colleagues will always jump in to save them, they really love to escalate/wind up guys to get a reaction, according to what a female sargeant told me.
I mistakenly believed that as my phone was an extension of my communication abilities that refusing to give up ones PIN was akin to using ones right to remain silent!?
Apparently not haha
Who in their right mind would willingly give the biggest criminal organisation in the UK access to their phone
Who in their right mind would be uncooperative with the biggest criminal organisation in the UK? 😂
You give access to your phone and it's contents every time you boot up Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, RUclips, Candy crush, etc. etc. But you balk at giving access to the police?
@@TonklinFallenSarah Everard
@@TonklinFallencuz that's sooooooooooooo different
@@TonklinFallen
The police officers are looking for something to incriminate you with there and then! Why help them?
I used to work in criminal defence, phones and many other devices would always get seized but in all my time I never had the police contact us to request the pin. Presumably they have the authority (and the technical means) to unlock phones without the users consent.
which is unlawful...
They can get into any phones now days it just cost them time and money so wont do it for everyone just look up forensic software for cell phones and see the many companies that say they can get everything off phones even deleted and privet stuff from messaging apps.
@@giggity4670 The cyphers we use today can't be cracked even with quantum currently. Those cyphers include PGP and GPG and both public domain. The police couldn't get into everything when I worked in digital forensics 5 years ago - I don't think things will have changed. If they get in it's most likely they found/guessed a password, a private key, covertly watched the password being entered, used a keylogger/spyware or the servers were intercepted by an intruder. Things may have changed but its part of my job to ensure data is held/transmitted securely. I believe any devices that were imaged and retained by the police will eventually give up their secrets. Believe this or not, even some of the air-gapped systems of yesteryear gave up some secrets through the electricity cables or flashing lights.
They use specialized data retrieval companies to access the DATA including innocent others that maybe on your phone. Use a loyalty card? Just what A.I. wants for breakfast.😮
A four digit pin isn't exactly going to be difficult to figure out. How many people put something like their birth year?
Considering the amount of mistakes and lies the police tell I wouldn't give them anything until speaking to legal representation first.
How about give you nothing over my dead body
Yup, silence is your best friend until counsel arrives
Basically you can expect police to 'lie' or 'shape a narrative' to get a judge to authorise a warrant for anything they want.
Me too , i wouldnt trust any of them
Not the Duty Solicitor either. Get independent legal advice.
"I forgot my pin, because of stress you are causing me"
It could happen but you would be expected to produce it within a reasonable time.
It's not a problem ..we will send it off for examination.....call back in two years or so to collect your £1000 plus phone.😂
Ah yes - The 'Johnson ripposte' 🙄
@@davewright9312That’s fine keep the phone 😀
@@davewright9312 So true. I wish half these mugs on here would stop pretending they're some sort of super spy with deep secrets. It's the last of the set, I want to check the RLIs and go home.
You can be sent to prison for 5 years because you refuse to give someone access to your private phone? Stuff like this is why normal people think lawyers and judges are scumbags. They are.
Lawyers and judges don't make the law....
They also need reasonable grounds and a notice, which means they need evidence of wrongdoing. If you've done nothing wrong, why would it worry you.
@kaltesekwa are you familiar with the Stasi? You sound like an idiot.
@@kaltesekwa Because you have no idea what can they do with your phone, they can put illegal stuff on there, and say it was you, better safe than sorry
odd as half the comments say they wont speak to police without their lawyer with them lol
The only statement that you should make is “I retain my right to remain silent until I’ve spoken to my solicitor”, and then remain silent!
why do you have to say anything
Excellent advice. Apparently doesn't apply to our current or former PMs. Law applies only to the little people and not to those that can buy it.
The Law is an ass we all know it.
Ain't that the truth.
"Justice is only for those that can afford it."
@@benballard-ho7tu There is no such thing as justice only law
@@Dianikes Justice is a resulting outcome of the law. It's a subsidiary, by product of the law being applied (correctly or incorrectly depending on which side of the courtroom you're on) to either plaintiff or defendant. If you have the bigger and better wallet, you can afford a bigger and better barrister/lawyer. Thereby perhaps winning a court case that maybe you shouldn't have one. Therefore you are able to "afford justice" even if you shouldn't have received it.
Looks like I’d be going to prison then - because having had the misfortune to come up against police corruption in the past, I wouldn’t trust them with my postcode, never mind my pin code.
Why were they investigating you in the first place? It’s like every prisoner says they are innocent .
No he means that all cops are corrupt, simple as that, FACT.
@@paulmeynell8866fool
@paulmeynell8866 You don't have to have done anything illegal to fall foul of the police. Thousands find that out every year. Ask Sarah Everard. Oh no you can't she's dead.
@@paulmeynell8866 That's a bad case of assumption you seem to be suffering from there. They weren't investigating me. I was trying to get them to investigate someone else and was getting thrown out of police stations whilst trying to report a serious crime, despite having done 99% of their job for them. Took my MP and a QC, (at the time), friend of his writing to the Chief Constable even to get them to open a case... and that was just the start of my unwelcome introduction into the reality of how things really work in the UK.
As ever the law is that you have rights until someone uses an arbitrary excuse to force you to do as they say. When police start uses phrases such as 'You are not allowed to upset people' then you know that they can do anything they want because there are no longer any fixed rules. Everything is now based on 'feelings' which can mean anything.
well all your right have been decided by groups of people so I guess you are living by peoples arbitrary thoughts on a matter
Would love to see a video on examining warrants and other court orders to check its legality in being a lawful document covering who has to sign them, in what capacity etc. as seen videos of bailiffs, tv licensing from yourself and think it will help to educate members of the public
I would have been more impressed if BBB had mentioned how unreasonable this is. Modern mobiles will usually contain data, eg access to finances, so private that you might not even trust a member of your family with it. The plod are the last people on earth that you would want to have access to this information.
Read the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. It will make your blood run cold when you see the information that not only the police but a whole multitude of public bodies can access using the legislation. They can obtain medical, HMRC, internet, phone and financial records and those of your family and associates if they think it`s relevant to an investigation.
The act was railroaded through parliament by the Blair government under the pretext of combatting terrorism and paedophile rings but no safeguards were put in place to prevent it from being used in routine investigations so it has become one of the most abused pieces of legislation in British history
Institution data is already available to them. Your bank records, cards and just about anything else they can get via warrant directly from the service providers, including gmail and other formal email service companies. However, they cannot currently get access to your end to end encrypted communications like WhatsApp, it's this that they are after, not learning how much you have in your bank account...
I have been told, but not confirmed, that if HMR&C take an interest their powers of access are stronger than the Police and basically you can find yourself in deep doo doo for not 'cooperating' with them.
I agree. I wouldn't trust a stranger on the street with that information.
Let alone anyone from police, government, or any other organized crime gang.
There was a time that the police suggested that you let them know when you go on holiday, therefore they'd keep an eye on your property. Funny how burglary rates rose, especially amongst those properties that their owners had prior told the police that they would be away.
The scheme was dropped.
Interesting that refusing to comply with a judge's order to supply a PIN could be 5 years inside whereas a citizen-on-citizen assault might be 2 years suspended or a community order - as evidenced in my local paper each week.
It's contempt of court and they take it like personally. They Can't have us serfs defying authority
You are taking two opposite extremes and then comparing them as though they were the same.
Many assaults result in much longer sentences and it's very rare for anyone to spend any time at all in prison as a result of being asked to provide their PIN.
ssssssssshhhhh JP don't cry its dog eat dog.
Thats because the government and the courts don't actually care about us... its fear to make you comply and obey. Absolute BS
@myself6296 That is not possible with a phone that is properly protected with a PIN and up-to-date software.
Also, this video would not be bollocks even if what you said was true. If they need the PIN, they'll ask and you can refuse. If they don't need the PIN, they won't bother to ask so the information in the video is both useful and correct.
The worst thing is if you are a business man / woman and the police arrest you for some alleged offence they always always take your devices off you and keep them for many many weeks even months and this then can cause your business to fail, it’s disgusting
I know someone who has had her phone and laptop both taken away... TWO YEARS ago... they never gave them back... easily worth £2k+
she wasn't even the one charged, it was all investigating a flatmate
Being in a position to describe/define what laws our 'betters' demand we MUST live under does not make one a good person, it only demonstrates the completely corrupt system we have allowed ourselves to now live UNDER. Pure evil.
Every time I visit the UK i purposely deactivate fingerprint ID pretty much because of this.
On iPhone, hold the power button and volume down button to temporarily turn off biometrics and require pin
When I travel anywhere I buy the cheapest phone possible which has nothing on it.
They can’t find information that doesn’t exist.
@@craigfrith7024 Precisely. I have friends who are lawyers and this is what they do when they travel. They have an empty "travel" phone and they have their actual phones at each location. Whenever crossing borders (passport control) the authorities can seize your device and clone it, the could at the same time put something either untoward or illegal so they can frame you and increase their arrest counts. Also, cloning a phone will clone the OTP seeds allowing them to access any 2FA accounts. Its always better to have a completely empty phone with nothing logged in for travel.
Isn’t this known as a digital strip search? Once they get access couldn’t this then lead to potentially you opening yourself to having all your data searched?
You'd need to be more specific really.
he is saying that if they have access they can enter all your apps banks emails and search the lot, but if your smart you will use a find my phone app with remote backup /delete functions and whipe your phone soon as you get out or have someone do it if need be.@@eadweard.
@@eadweard. Really ?
Based upon reports from the hacking community getting slapped with the RIPA is worse than being abducted by aliens who want to check your prostrate. Typically seems to involve the seizure of all a suspects electronic devices for forensic examination and takes between six months to a year to get them back. Assuming of course they don't find anything interesting.
They take your phone as they have a legal right to check your phone calls to see if you have been communicating with a know criminal. Then they read your emails / documents and believe you are running a tax avoidance scam. You were brought in for one thing but now they are conducting a ‘digital strip search’ and you could be looking at charges for other things.
I’ve told all my dodgy mates to follow your channel. You are a god send.
I would rather wipe the phone or straight refuse to give them anything and i’d happily take whatever corrupt consequence they make up for it.
Yep - a quick factory-reset when they go away to get their judge's letter😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@user-jg2nq6ll4c data can still be recoverable to some degree even with a factory reset. best is to send it to a shop who can swap out the memory module on phone and but in a new one.
once the memory module RAM / ROM is swapped then you are good but you are in more of a difficult situation if it is like Apple who have SOC. (socket on chip) which means the chip is permanently bonded on during manufacturing then you are screwed so you will not be able to actually swap the chip first thing will be in such case to Swap the entire Board out and CPU chips set put swap out everything in fact. and input a dummy account. do not input a dummy account created after the court order. other option can be to swap the board and drop it in water. usually in such case I would imagine that the police will seize your phone until future notice. so best thing is do a remote wipe after handing it to them.
what if the consequence is not corrupt
Hi Daniel. Not at all related to your post but as an electrician, I can't but help notice the highly flammable sound diffuser/absorber you have installed directly above a wall heater behind you. Do what you wish in your home but I highly recommend you reposition the foam diffusers/absorbers away from the heat source so as to prevent a fire. Take care bud. 👍
Is it possible for a heater to start a fire on such material?
@@vaderd4353 Any flammable object placed above a heater is at risk of smouldering/melting really. Especially those foam diffusers. The main thing to do really is to read the manufacturer's instructions and if it states not to do it then don't as if there is a fire because you placed something above the heater against the manufacturer's instructions, your insurance won't pay out and will blame you for being negligent.
@@mb-electricalservices If it's a cheap Chinese import etc absorber I'd be worried, anything BS certified should be fire retardant although personally even then I'd cut the bottom corner off so it was 8 or 10 inch about the electric radiator.
Just tell them that you forgot it! Boris did and got away with it! But then Boris got away with a lot more too😅
Boris who?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣@@eadweard.
Good for Boris!
That's not going to wash. National security is serious stuff and the Government comes down hard on anyone they have any inkling is being obstructive.
@@eadweard. Donald Trumps brother from another mother. You know who I mean, the guy who made covid rules and broke them all. He talks like Bill and Ben - Flow Pot Men.
Great channel, love you style, good sir, I can tell you're a black belt.
Us higher belt graded martial artists tend 2 carry ourselves with a bit more swagger n style. Chest forward n shoulders back....along with how you portray your body/words!!
Short answer is no.
Fine to refuse if your arrested or even if you’re in for a vol interview or stopped on the street.
An application via ripa or via the courts will usually be made well down the road and you’ll likely have legal reps in place by then.
Another point worth noting is that compliance at first opportunity will give credit if entering a guilty plea down the line which will allow for the most remission possible.
Innocence is no plea under UK police and courts ;)
If you are not under arrest or detained you are under no obligation to talk to the police and if you are under arrest the very first line of the caution is “ you do not have to say anything “
What's the relevance? If the police have the appropriate document signed by a judge, one can provide the pin without talking or writing it down: just show them the pin as you unlock the phone.
@@AtomicExtremophile it is unlikely that they will have an order from a judge if you have been stopped in the street or even under arrest , section 49 it only used in extreme circumstances 99% or more of instances where people are considering if they need to provide a pin to a phone are instances where the answer is no or no comment
While it is true that you don't have to say anything, this is not 'Murica. In Britain, if you are asked something and you fail to answer, your failure to answer may count against you at court. However, to my understanding, as soon as you as much as mutter the word "lawyer", the police is prohibited from asking anything further until your lawyer is present. So, if the police walks up to you, first thing you ask is "Am I detained?" if the answer is no, ask "Am I under arrest?" if the answer is no, wish them a good day and walk on. If the answer to the first question is yes, ask them for their names, service number and citing of the provision under which they stop you. If the answer to the second question is yes, immediately demand a lawyer before they get even a single question out.
I would never give them my pin, even if facing prison time for refusing.
The police are no longer trustworthy, and if they already suspect you for a crime, they will use any information they can to get a conviction, even if under a different matter.
Exactly. I was under the assumption that you had "privilege against self incrimination" in England. It specifically states you can't be forced to hand over information.
There is no way the Blue Line Gang is getting my phone PIN without a court order!
good luck with that, they arrest you, take your phone, ask if you'll give it them and then go away and hack it without your help, they spend 6-12 months depriving you of privacy and personal life, installing spyware on home computers and violating the privacy of every contact on your phone...
Other than your whatsapp messages they really don't need to. they can get what they want direct from your service providers. Banks, gmail etc... It's only your WA and similar end to end encrypted messages that they currently can't get access too...
Actually they have access to whatsapp already, it's only Telegram they struggle with, funny how the Russians put personal security ahead of NAZI regimes human rights violations...@@dougle03
What makes you think they give enough of a crap about you to want to access your phone? Unless you’re a “baddie” 😂
Because Britain is a fascist state with the intention of stealing the entire globes data according to the integrated security review... goodbye 77 Brigade...@@CaptainBirdSi68
What if you've genuinely forgotten the PIN? I was using a bank card PIN for 2 yrs but one day went to the machine and couldn't remember it. Even when I went home to recover the PIN when I saw it, it didn't ring any bells, very strange but really happened!
Dementia is a sad condition
Sounds like the onset of dementia or similar.
Thanks for the video. So... in denying one access to one's records, calendar, personal and business contacts, digital services including medical, business and necessary ones, other people's private info or personal and private pictures - they can - effectively, by seizing a phone for an unspecified (often VERY long) period blackmail one into allowing them instant access without even having to be explicit about it... is the upshot...?!
Like you can't refuse them entry into your own work office because they don't believe your the tenant. This country a joke... almost got myself arrested for that. Still refused they back down even after some hands on force
@tvguy61 it was my office building. They wouldn't let me prove it moved me and someone else by out the way luckily two or the other staff refused and at that point it caused too much of a scene outside.
We got the aftermath on video where I was still being threaten with arrest. They demanded a full search of building
@@JordanHall_dev To be clear, you tried to stop the Police from entering a commercial property? Your office? That being the case, you can't stop Police entering commercial premises. They can enter without consent or a warrant.
It's the opposite for residential property, requiring consent or a warrant.
It depends what type of property it is.
@davemac1648 yes my office. Only 1 allowed to use that building. Its a joke of a law, especially saying they reason for a search was because they assume me and my team broke in
@@davemac1648 They seriously don't need a warrant or probable cause to enter a commercial property in the UK? Do they have a right to search a commercial property without any consent or a warrant as well? That doesn't sound right at all to me, but I'm an American so I don't know a lot about British law. If it is true, then that's jacked up.
@@davemac1648 commercial premises are still PRIVATE premises so you can refuse.. it is PUBIC premises you are thinking of... Other wise why do they still require a SEARCH warrant when conducting a search?
Most people end up getting charged because of the things they say either before, during or after arrest... Let that be the lesson....
Totally agree mate.
It’s their job to prove guilt you don’t have to prove your innocence.
Simple don’t open your mouth.
No surely not they are honest and apply the law fairly and equally and would never fabricate evidence to convict innocent people. Would they?????😂
I truly appreciate your channels and the help that is provided in understanding the law or preventing potential issues due to lack of knowledge etc, but at times I feel like I want to move somewhere else, possibly where the law is a bit more "good-people" friendly
What if you remotely wiped the phone before they could acquire an order, or had some kind of function that would wipe the phone if inactive for more than day, etc?
Basically they need an authorisation from a judge, effectively a warrant from a judge. Otherwise they can just go forth and multiply... or Foxtrot Oscar as Yardley Ski says.
no they don't, they just take your phone and search it for6-12 months... currently going through this, all my legal communication is exposed to them, i imagine that violates some law...
@@user-yn7ll3qz1p That is illegal unless they have the appropriate authority. That is what the BBB just said. I assume they must have some sort of authority. Did you ask? Or did you just let them?
Neither, they took my phone when i got arrested for something, not charged with anything yet and they are still investigating. They asked if i would give them the pins but never took them, when they asked i stated they have a law permitting them to hack ANY device and to go do one and use it... @@edeledeledel5490
@@user-yn7ll3qz1p Is it an iphone what country you in and what happened?
@@KingKhan20000 what does it matter if Apple makes the phone or anyone else... British police are above the law and abuse their authorty at every opportunity...
Part of me screams internally every time I hear "PIN number."
😂 Yes !
Personal Identification Number Number ?🤷♂️
@@funkyjunkyjai Under my umbrella ella ella.
Yeah, I use my PIN number every time I use an ATM machine...😱
Me too, and he says it repeatedly during this video. I began to feel like he was doing it just to annoy me specifically.
I fear RAS Syndrome is baked into his DNA Acid. I withered and died 12 times in this video thanks to his misuse of acronyms.
I've used my duress pin in certain situations that formats the phone in the background. During the time the phone acts and appears like a normal phone - calls, messages, whatsapp, facebook, instagram etc. An inconvenience until you can restore from a backup.
What is that?
I read somewhere that when you enter Britain the customs control can ask you for your pin number to your phone without having to apply for a magistrates court order.
This is why you never have Touch ID or Face ID enabled.
Problem with that is if you use your phone for any financial activities the APPs nearly always require biometric ID be enabled on the phone.
@@barrieshepherd7694 I use all sorts of finance apps and they never made me set my phone bio metrics. Some of the apps use bio metric verification inside their apps but that is different from the phone lock itself.
I don't get arrested often enough to worry about that. If police come up, I'll lock the phone.
@@barrieshepherd7694 really? Not in my experience?
If I didn’t I’d never get on my phone myself though
I will gladly show them everything on my phone "Now this is our holiday in Torquay...".
😂😂😂 init and auntie dorris 87th bday party 😂😂😂😂
😂
Visting Torquay is surely a criminal offence in itself?
Question: when provided with a notice form a judge, how does this notice get delivered. Would this be as an email or a letter and does it have to have a wet ink signature on the notice?
Question: Say Im section 49'd and served a notice to 'Provide my PIN or Unlock the Device' and COMPLY....
But I've password protected individual Apps.... Does the notice to unlock the 'Device' construe a need to provide additional passwords, to unlock the various apps, with each secured by a different password or would a second Notice or Warrant be required?
I've complied with the notice and unlocked the device, but I wasnt specifically told to provide ADDITIONAL information or were compelled to, unlock individual apps?
The answer provided by this video raises another question: can the police seize or hold a device that they wish to access while waiting for the decision by a court on a notice application? If yes, then how long?
i was wondering about this too
Usually yes
@@BlackBeltBarrister Thanks. If yes, then how long? Is there a limit?
@@BlackBeltBarrister I was surprised you left that point out.
@@noelward8047Entirely different point, to be fair.
it's amazing how many people forget their login details due to the stress and trauma of being arrested and thrown into a cell. I know that when I was nicked, I completely forgot all login details to my devices that they seized. Although they said they could get into the devices anyway. They couldn't. They also couldn't obtain a RIPA notice which would have been useless anyway seeing as I forgot them. ;-)
I forg... Who are you? Where am i? Get out my bedroom!
Its one of my problems.... I forget passwords and just erase my backups if I've not seen them for 5+ years. I think I'm afraid of being abducted by aliens and having passwords read out of my brain.
My thoughts exactly
when Im traveling in foreign countries, I only have my second phone with a second apple-id with me. It is practicaly empty with just some contacs and an email-account just for this id.
Given how corrupt the police are, I wouldn't give them the PIN to my phone even if a judge compelled me to.
Here is an idea just refuse to acknowledge anything they say or ask and then let them jump through the hoops and or charge you with whatever and still stay silent and give them nothing and do nothing to help them.
That would be a criminal offence, as was explained.
@eadweard. No matter how they say it an Englsihman has the right to remain silent and to not assist his accusers in proving his own guilt.
People have been sent to prison for refusing to give phone passwords and Facebook passwords when asked to do so by a court order.
@@legion162 Is that Justice then?
They have mobile goal posts 😀@@InvictusManeo.
Prevent or Detect crime is an extremely broad term, that pretty much includes everything the police would be involved in.
Unless they are commiting one of course!
hahaah it probably includes everything the police are not doing ;)
How long are they allowed to to keep hold of a phone without charging you? They took my phone on 13th September on nonsense charges. I was bailed to 12th December but then I was bailed indefinitely. It cost me my job as it was how I received my shifts. I was also homeless and I was trying to get the money together to get a flat. They also dropped my phone multiple times straight after I asked them to be careful as I had just paid out for a new screen
Can they bail you indefinetely? Is this in the UK? Did they find anything yet?
It doesn't matter. They can now excess all phones with programs, etc... with or without your consent. If they believe you have criminal information within it, then they can do whatever they want.
Or if they CLAIM they think you might have...
I was once arrested for something I always denied being a part of. The investigating DC demanded my phone PIN after seizing it. I told them I had nothing to hide and that I would provide it to them when we were on the way to the station. Their response was “if you don’t give it then we will use tools to gain access into it”. My response was something along the lines of “I just told you I’ll give you the PIN so please don’t try to intimidate me”. On a side note, can they force the phone to unlock by holding it to your face (I.e to unlock it via Face ID)? If so, I’d be tempted to hold the volume up and power button to disable Face ID before handing the phone over if I was in such a scenario again (though based on how I’ve been treated by the police, I may not simply hand over the PIN next time).
On biometric access, yes, they’re able to use that, and obviously will. If you want true confidentiality, keep on using a PIN. On the Internet VPN’s are commonly used. Nord VPN is jokingly referred to by rearranging its name by turning the ‘p’ over to spell Porn, signifying why VPN’s have gained such a significant consumer base. Cookies follow you everywhere monitoring your internet activity. Even if your phone can’t be accessed its internet traffic signatures can.
I can't understand why people would have face or fingerprint ID on their phone, a PIN is typically 4 numbers, with permutations, its not difficult remembering 4' digits, just resist having a DOB 0r birthday PIN , my PIN is the time that was showing on the town clock (over my shoulder )at the time I was setting the PIN code.
@@ianhill4585with only that information you provided, I know now your pin can only be 1 of 720 numbers... Easily bruteforcable (even if you used a 24hr clock) in about half an hour, or less with the right tech. Use an alpha numeric password, mines about 10 characters long, yh it's a bit tedious to unlock my phone but I know that no one else can get in without a hell of a lot of effort 😂
@@ianhill4585 Convenience without needing to input a PIN every time. But more recently, to be used as a more secure authentication method (I.e. using tokens as opposed to passwords on websites, applications etc).
Probabaly never best to use face or fingerprint ID unlock features, they can always be used against your own security preferences. It's a really really bad idea.
Thanks 🙏 very useful. I carry a separate burner mobile when I'm out - with no intelligence on it that they can use. Also it doesn't disrupt my life if it's confiscated
Nice! Good idea.
Search warrant will allow search of your home.
@stephenbaxter3369 if they've got the burner how will they know there's another?
Why? That’s so paranoid
Does this also apply to things like using the fingerprint sensor or facial recognition (Face ID etc)?
Great video, thank you! Could you please address the topic of providing biometric unlock, which is what most people are likely using?
Make sure you have a clone of your phone and keep it somewhere else. Refuse to give them the number and make them apply to a judge. You'll have plenty of time to delete stuff via your clone phone. You never comply with the police ever
With iPhone you can do that remotely via another iPhone.
You cunning swine! (I'll remember that, with gratitude - thanks!).
@@andywing2030 with iPhone the police call apple and apple hand everything over lickety split! They wouldnt even need your phone, just your Apple ID or email!
Many apps (Google Voice, Telegram, etc.) can be simply accessed via multiple devices.
Ensure a double level of protection with a VPN, preferably free, so there’s no registration or payment record to identify it with you.
I would NEVER ever give the government my pin number
They don't need to. They now have the software to force the device into upgrade and auto install unlock program. Takes about 1/2 hr
I remember Section 49 a fair bit from my days in private security, if Police wanted to request footage (CCTV for example) they'd have to send a notice under a section 49 to blur out anyone that wasn't involved in whatever it was, I believe you can use the same notice to request footage from Police as well can't you?, such as dashcam and bodycam, but I think a Solicitor has to do it. If you are genuinely mistaken or in an incident where Police are sketchy they should have body cams active and running.
I would have thought that the number one requirement for asking for your PIN, never mind getting an order requiring you to give it, would be that you would have to have first been placed under arrest. If a police officer hasn't got enough evidence to lawfully arrest you, then I would have thought he wouldn't have the 'authority' to make you unlock your phone so he can go 'fishing' for some evidence. What happens 'after' arrest is another matter altogether.
They dont need evidence to arrest you. Allegedly.
They don't need evidence, to lawfully arrest you. Who are you kidding. If they want to, they will.
The poolice just lie and claim they saw something and they can violently kidnap you
@@S.Trades Reasonable Cause or suspiscion is often enough for detaining and potentially arresting you, evidence is NOT required technicaly.
Exigent Circumstances are where they can abuse their powers, for example as mentioned in the video, threat to national security etc, another example is they dont need a warrant to enter your home, if they can visibly see through the window that you are doing something illegal, 'Plain View Doctrine' So yes technically tho they should need evidence and a warrant for almost any invasive procedure, there ARE circumstances where this is not the case, and its a 'get arrested, sue later' policy if youre actually innocent, sucks, but we dont have 4th amendment rights like they do in the states
@@S.Trades They need a reason, they can easily make up a reason but there needs to be a reason non the less
Nothing trumps your right to remain silent .. remember that .
lol
Thank you, this was interesting.
I have a couple of follow-up questions:
1. You've explicitly mentioned PINs throughout this video, but there are other ways to unlock a phone - most commonly Password (normally Gmail or iCloud password), Patterns, and Biometrics (fingerprint, facial recognition etc). Do the legal protections and processes you've described apply to all these methods as I've heard rumours that this may not be the case (and certainly, Biometrics can be easily forced against one's will, so if I were likely to attract the attention of the fuzz, I would avoid these methods)
2. You're a Barrister in England and Wales, but do you have idea if the law is much different north of the wall? I'm never sure how much criminal law (esp counter-terrorism and cyber-crime) is applied UK wide, rather than being limited to individual jurisdictions only
Thanks
Does the same apply to fingerprint unlock/Face ID etc? Can you be forced to unlock a device using these methods?
The police cant open letters your solicitor send you as it legal privilege . So if your phone has emails, text from a solicitor then isnt that the same . Just electronic form??
A quick query, if the police have obtained a search warrant for a property and your phone is in that property, does the search warrant cover the phone or do they still need that extra notice?
@BlackBeltBarrister - Would there be a defence under GDPR or similar legislation? Suppose you know the device in question holds confidential information. (Let's say, you're a medical professional and the device holds access to confidential medical data) - would a defence of refusal be that to give access would be to infringe that confidentiality and breach GDPR?
What happens if you've conveniently "forgotten" your pin? I've always thought that if I actually had something to hide, I wouldn't want to use biometrics because it's a lot easier to compel a fingerprint etc.
This is the way
Say you're arrested, they get a warrant to look at your phone records, determine they need access to the contents of your phone and get a notice to compel you to give them the PIN, and you claim you forgot it. They just looked at your phone records - they know full well you made a phone call 20 minutes before you were arrested and that you were browsing the internet as they walked up to you. If you think that argument will hold water, I've got a bridge to sell you.
All iPhones and Android phones that use biometrics also require you to set a password/PIN which after the phones restarted or a set time e.g. 48hrs will then ask for this password/PIN. It makes it harder for people to give that excuse of they have forgotten it . However from experience working in digital forensics there is usually a threshold of when the police will then take further steps like bypass/crack the code or take the route of using the RIPA to legally make you tell them the code. Things like low level drug dealing (Under a few thousand pounds of drugs etc normally wouldn't meet the threshold) but this may vary depending on the force and the workloads of the Digital Forensics Unit.
@@danielbentham How would one make it as difficult as possible to access phone data? My Note 10 has device encryption as an option, but not my other Samsung devices.
If the offence under investigation is serious, you'll be asked for the pin with your legal rep present immediately. This removes plausible deniability. You'd be looking at the Sec49.
So if you know you are innocent and have committed no crime, yet get pulled up and questioned, tell the Police nothing, let them go to a Judge. Thanks for the video and info.
So I need to access a conversation from an old phone call . I’m aware the network provider records all data on mobile phone including conversations. Anyone know how I get permission/ police / court to get this . ( to provide evidence for a statement) ?
Police 8n my area Merseyside are asking people on streets for 5here phone an pin to view with no crime committed is this legal or corrupt
Set your password as 'NOCOMMENT', sue them when you get out of jail 5 years later.
Genius!!!!! Love it!!
Too many characters!
Many years ago at work we all had to supply our passwords (in sealed envelopes) for use in case of emergency. The keeper of these was someone, Jerry, who I didn't trust to not steam the envelopes open and go snooping, so I changed my password to "F***OffJerryYouNosyBastard" and wrote that down. It was hell to type, but secure, and it gave me great pleasure knowing that if Jerry succumbed to temptation (highly likely) he wouldn't believe it was actually my password.
@@paulmeynell8866 yeah for a pin but phones can set a password or even a series of motions / pattern!
😂😂😂👍🇮🇪🇷🇺🇷🇺
It's amazing what can be a 'criminal offence' in this country
Also, remember that the N in pin stands for number 'personal identification number'
Always keep your personal identity number code safe!
I love it when people say 'pin number'. Personal Identification Number Number. All good fun.
@@carlmanvers5009 LCD display! 📺🙃
I reckon saying "PIN number" should be a criminal offence.
PIN code. Better.
Neither my phone nor my laptop have PINs. My phone can, not very reliably, recognise my fingerprint or it needs a pattern drawn through some dots. My laptop recognises my face. Can I be compell;ed to facilitate either of these?
If the Police gain legal access to your phone for a particular investigation and then find something on it that they believe 'could' require investigation but has nothing whatever to do with the original reason for access, what happens then?
You dont have to give them your PIN and there's nothing they can do about it other than seize the phone for further investigations and have it cracked by one of their tech specialists, which takes about three-six months. After this and all following proceedings are finalised, you can retrieve your phone. But personally, I wouldn't trust that the police techs didnt leave any "extras" inside.🎙️👂🎧.
I always turn off my phone and stash it before any interactions with the old bill.
I refuse to answer questions and volunteer nothing.
Screw them and the system they represent.
How about living a life that avoids coming across the old Bill? It’s not that hard to do.
@@pcr8918 yeah cuz innocent people are never interfered with by the police! There's no videos on RUclips of hundreds of people having their days / lives ruined by police when being perfectly normal law abiding citizens. There's no videos of police harassing & stalking innocent people who have rightly criticised their bad and illegal behaviour online...
Like crimebodge etc
@@pcr8918 Nice projection.
Old bill in this shit ass country is as corrupt as it gets. Fuck them all.
If the phone is set to log off after a couple of minutes after use that's plenty of time for it to secure itself from prying eyes
@@pcr8918 Yes you would think but times are changing where they would rather prosecute you for having an opinion on FB over a real offence because they don't have the resources, You know what I am talking about Humza Useless
Is it legal to have a format pin? (secondary "pin" that will wipe everything from the phone when attempted)
Also... If I state that I use the same pin for multiple things, do the police now need a reason to access all of those things or can the order be restricted to compel me to unlock the device rather than provide a pin?
Is entrapment legal? Ive had the police trying to stitch me up for over a year
The police are very skilled at trying to get you to hand over information, they are investigating you in regards to possibly charging you with an offence. Always seek professional legal advice.
@trixiek942Depends on what the allegation is.
So Basically the third reason is quite a catch all "To Prevent or Detect Crime"
With that access they can just search for anything and everything even when it has nothing to do with the reason for detainment access request in the first place. Possible self incrimination on a totally unrelated matter, that maybe they would not even have bothered with normally, but now will take a deep dive into your life. Not forgetting personal data including possible private and intimate pics of yourself or a loved one, (we keep hearing about these closed what's app groups where stuff gets shared) Only take them a couple of seconds to Air Drop to their device etc.
According to what is expressed out there, a phone is seized if necessary, and most likely will be copied for analysis, perhaps returned at some point. It all depends on what the reason was for the seize, just looking at everything isn't always a must, but the England & wales system lacks a warrant system for that type of search, it is more a descretion on investigators on what is viewed. A reason why a phone shouldn't have personal info if anybody finds themselves in that situation. One has to be cautious about legality, it isn't something most give a thought about. like with uk auditors, some in the beginning were using a personal phone to record, and then it was seized, so that is one example.
I was on jury duty once and the suspect had about 4 phones on him, three of which were Blackberries, and he said he either couldn't remember the PINs and one belonged to an acquaintance but he had forgotten the name. He only remembered one code for the non-Blackberry, which was clean.
He got a guilty verdict.
Over 44,000 people had their phones checked on arrival back in Australia in one year by border force. In some cases the phones were kept for days
Surely if you told the police that they may find material that COULD be used to incriminate oneself, that should be reason enough not to comply.
A court order boils down to nothing more than a threat with a choice attached, if you wish to accept to consequences of that threat then the police and courts can insist all they like, you still arent forced to tell them anything. It is still down to the individual to decide if what's on the device could cost more than refusal,I'd guess that if someone has refused that far then they have their reasons,and will continue to refuse, court order or not.
What would happen if your phone does not unlock via a pin? Maybe it's biometric, passcode, picture code or a combination of voice identification with said password. Just wondering as a pin is normally numerical.
There is a small shop in an arcade in Thatcham, Berkshire, that is used by the Police to unlock and search phones. They don't need a pin off you the ability is there to do this. Fir example, if you have been killed, say in a motor accident, then your phone is searched. Thats an extreme example.
This is the reason to have a dumb phone while you are out and about in the Corrupt UK.
They'll need a " search warrant" and you'll need legal representation.
Why would anyone want legal representation, better of to be a Sui Juris. Only deceased estates (persons) and corporations go to court. Although you could stand as a citizen and use waiver and acceptance as described by the late Lord Denning or the American guy Winston Shrout.
Suppose I know the pin but it isn't my phone? Do I have the right to hand over someone else's privacy? Suppose it's company phone and not my personal phone? Do I refer them to my employer? Do I have a duty of care or something similar when it comes to other people's property and information. Potentially, my employer could be engaged in government sensitive work for example. I want to be cooperative with the police because they have a difficult job to do but at the same time I don't want to inadvertently break some other law or obligation in the process.
You’re actually correct. If you have a company phone you are directly responsible for the safeguarding of the data contained within. The police should make a request to your company CISO for permission to access.
Very informative. Thank you Mr ShenSmith.
What happens if a person is arrested and their iPhone is seized as evidence but the person or a friend or family member logs into the Apple "Find My" app, marks the seized iPhone as "Lost" and erases the contents?
Yeah that’s what I thought they can’t just demand it without getting some kind of warrant. I always ask for a warrant or something first in case they turn out to be dodgy because anyone could dress up like the police these days and I know all too well they can as I used to work in a props department for Film & TV, costume uniforms and badges can look pretty realistic. A type of warrant would prove to me personally that they are legit
Warrants aren't always necessary for a lot of police powers in the UK. If you're worried about authenticity (and you aren't currently being arrested, or aren't in the middle of a massive row with the officers) you can usually call 999 to confirm that they are in fact genuine. For example, 999 will be able to confirm that the officers are assigned to a call at your address.
Would a Judge listen to your side of the application or would they “automatically” issue the order to the Police?
Prob one sided as your in handcuffs in the back of a nice car
Isn't it like a warrant to search?
The Police present to the judge their reasons for the request & the judge decides?
You might not even know they've asked I suppose?
(Except they're hanging onto your phone)
Unless you have a staggeringly-good case, a judge would ALWAYS take the side of the police, no matter how evil the intent. Look up "Operation Rize" to see how abusive that case turned out to be.
Hmmm.... tough question! 😄 What do you think?
They probably need reasonable cause. Since the default is they can not do it, they need a special reason to do it. Like there is a national security threat, or there is evidence you are a suspect in something. I think it is probably like searching someone's house.
If the pin is easily guessed i.e your dob which the police would know and they use it to unlock the phone is that legal?
I have a slightly unrelated question, can I cancel a mobile phone contract without moving to another provider, say I no longer require mobile calls or texts because I use alternative methods of communicating using my phone and no longer need a mobile service or data.
Trying to leave Three I'm told I must use a PAC or STAC code, give this to my new provider and only then will my contract be cancelled. Until then I will continue to be charged (in perpetuity?).. how can this practice be legal!?
This is happening to me right now, multiple officers are breaking the law and trying to get me falsely convicted. Steer clear of Nottinghamshire police
It happened with Alex belfield too, they tried to arrest him without their uniform numbers on so they couldn't be identified, Alex recorded it all and put it out in his videos. They bashed his door in and pinched all of his equipment too,
@@crazyfroggie6546 I'm thinking of Levi Belfield! 😄
@@crazyfroggie6546 yes! And they also put him in Jail!
Sounds like they're doing a good job.
@@crazyfroggie6546 is that police corruption?
I've always understood it, that a Court Order was required for this sort of information. That said. It's also understood that the Police will 'chance their luck' and try and get that information without one.
The beauty of the Court Order is that the Police have to convince a Judge that the information is needed (Not the easiest job in the World), than intimidating the 'holder' of the information.
I'm OK. I don't have a mobile phone.
I mean you say that, but remember the gas/electricity scandal a while back where judges just willy nilly allowed companies to pull your power without any due process?
Wouldn't put to much stock into the refusal of judges
Yes, but you have a pc, and exactly the same laws apply.
Oooh how I wish I didn't have a mobile phone most days!! 🙏
What if I destroy or factory reset my phone? What if I feign ignorance and claim that I forgot or never knew the pin?
Does that Notice include any external storage and other passwords, i.e. OneDrive, Goggle Drive etc, and Mail like Outlook, or any other App that are password locked with a seperate passwords?