Glad to see you used my suggestion about U-drills, they are awesome. They are meant to "squeal" when your cutting with them roughing a bore. I would suggest milling a flat for easier setups. To set it up, put the tool in a V-Block and clock the highest point on the diameter, move down half to get the centre. Then run the clock across the tip of the tip, rotating the tool until it reads "0" and it should be on centre-line.
Good vids. Note, The polished inserts for aluminum are not needed. Just use regular steel inserts, they break the chip better. Sharp polished inserts leave a great finish, but dont break a chip well unless pushed hard. Sandvik u-drills are great for punching fast holes in almost any material. Agree, put a flat on that drill, after you clock it 180 degrees. Run tools upside down.
Nonono John no. You don't just turn the shank down to 3/8 because you have that size holders. The flat face is there to make it square if you bore with it but the holder has to have set screw for that. Now you need to manually set it to do properly anything else than drilling. Makes production a ton easier always if you are able to reduce tools like having drilling, boring, facing and possibly something else on the same tool.
Z zero off front edge not back edge and be sure its clocked to cut across center. You will have great success with this type drill. Very cool for several operations for sure.
Although they will not do a square corner I use ultradex drills on my cnc lathe and they work great. Drill and then rough boring before switching to a heavy metal boring bar for finishing the bores. On the other hand my smallest ultradex is .625. I have never bought them from shars but I did notice they also sell the ultradex line. These drills are made in the USA also which is nice.
Insert drills are awesome! We use them also. They work also great on the mill. The initial investment is bigger than carbide drills but you can swap inserts so in the end they are more economical to use.
I like your videos, just in case you didn't know you should have faced from top of part down. I used similar tools from name brand tool makers and are great for multi tasking. Thanks showing a cheap source of tooling for drill/bore tools
Hi John, not sure if any one said yet but we use these tools and to machine the O/D you just run the spindle in reverse and machine from the back 8-)Regards Adrian
Love it but chip clearing looks like it could be a problem on a close to tool size holes. I'm guessing relieving the shank for chip clearing would cause other problems but great tool for the larger diameter stuff. They do make through tool cooling for twist drills but that is usually on larger diameter stuff and it doesn't leave a nice flat bottom like this does.
Check out Coromant 880-series drills, we use them all the time and they have inserts for almost every material like aluminum, steel, stainless steel, titanium etc etc. I think the smallest 880-drill goes down to like 14 mm (little more than 1/2")
Have you taken a look at Allied Machine and Engineering"s spade drills? Coolant thru with much better clearance gullets on the shank. Different tips available for various materials. They are purely for drilling but they are also an Ohio company based in Dover/New Philadelphia. Small holes up to drill diameters that you will never use based on the parts I see you making.
They do work great, but when an insert breaks it makes for an expensive wreak. We ran up to 2 1/2 inch 2 insert drills on the Warner Swasey & CinTurn. Great tools.
That's pretty neat! I wonder how deep you could go if you extended that "flute" on it and if so how rigid would it be .... maybe something you could put in a video ;) ;)
At work we just use the inserts for steel when we machine aluminium we do use flood cooling so the alu doesn't coate the insert we use the steel inserts for extruded, cast aluminium, bronze, inox works just fine just give it a try
+NYC CNC I formulated it wrong : ... so the alu doesn't coate the insert to much What we do when we setup the cnc lathe is using 1 boring bar for roughing so some light coating of the insert doesn't matter and an other boring bar for the finishing pas
now that is some pretty cool stuff :D one tool for more things so more other tools possible to be used as well... great investment I would say John... congrats on that find :D greetings from Lower Austria Karl :-)
i got a question, when your using it to bore a hole after drilling isn´t the carbide bit on the outside getting more wear then the one on the inside, or is it not a big deal?
Just wondering if anyone has some tips on how to program this tool in Fusion 360. I would like to use it for initial drill and then continue boring with the same setup. In my head the drill operation requires tool offset to be centerline of the holder like a drill bit, but then when i go to bore the tip of the insert is offset from centerline...Losing my mind at the moment.
Pecked 1.25 Insert Drill in titanium at 1500RPM .0015 IPR .150 per peck... THose inserts were VERY HAPPY. I have never seen carbide tools last this long on a material this hard,
I have to run a chip break cycle the first inch, and then switch to pecking for the last .750 even for aluminum. An insert intended for steel works better because the chipbreaker actually breaks the chips instead of curing them Otherwise chips pack in the bottom of the hole. If you have high pressure coolant that isn't an issue.
I'm Sorry..... i have to ask..... What is the big deal here? we have been using this drill for the last 10 years+? I dont see the whole new idé? are you so far behind in the US? or why all this excitment? No hard feeling, i'm just curious? (sorry for bad english, not my mother language) Best Regards Mikkel
Like Joel said, take face cuts and look at the numb until you get on center or a hair above. The nub should disappear. Surface finish and tool life will greatly improve. Crank up the rpm and IPR. They love to be pushed. In aluminum you should be triple that to start. Don't peck just hit it. Your noise is from the short flute packed up with stringy chips. It's hairy the first time you run it like it wants to be. Think of doing a roughing pass at .002 feed...
I have the 5/8 version of this tool, running on the same 15l slant Pro lathe. I haven't had much success with it though. When drilling the back side of the insert always cracks (probably from rubbing). Cutting recommendations for it are not available from Shars and they don't seem to understand when I send them a message asking about it. And, Path Pilot and CAM software are not liking the tool being able to do more than one type of operation. It makes a good boring bar though.
+NYC CNC BTW, I'll go one step further. I've seen them used for turning by running the lathe in reverse. You turn and face from the back side, with the lathe in reverse, then drill and bore with the lathe running forward. No tool change...
+Auarhau they can be used that way but it is poor practice to use end mills as drills, not only are they WAY less productive than a insert drill like john is showcasing but they dont have the proper clearences to evacuate chips, so you end up with blown out holes and chipped tools!
set it up with the insert oriented like a boring bar, and on center like a drill. use the recommended feed/speed provided by the manufacturer. you try what you did in the video on a harder material and you gonna destroy that cub drill. LOL, you making machinists giggle .....
Mike Sanchez ,mike I've used both throughout my years on the cnc lathe and i think these indexable drills are alot more rigid and firm.Basically stronger than a spade insert ,because (my option)if you look at the support the inserts have on a spade drill and an indexable the indexable is made to where the inserts do not hang off the sides and it's more like part of that bar that's pushing all the force through.You know with spade inserts on a bigger bore and on extreme material you could go through quite a few inserts,t
They are not new.also you do have to clock them especially on steel.also there is a minimum hole diameter.you cant drill undersize or else you will destroy the drill.you cant drill a hole smaller than what the drill is designed for
John That tool cut well until you pecked , then chips welded Though coolant maybe would have helped but to my view when you exceeded the depth of the insert there was no room for the chips to clear. What do the sales splurge say for min dia and depth ( inferior or metric will do ) nasty Brit humour 🙄 Interesting tool I would like to see that in the CNC mill could be very useful Stuart
Serious, and you teach CNC classes, this is basics man. My advice, buy a freaking tool and cutter grinder and learn to use it, no it's not 'puter based where you get to reset and try again. Also, way to name drop all video, never seen this from you before, Adam would know what the hell he is doing, not guessing and buying from a Chinese supplier and than "So Happy Folks" when a crap tool works. Did I crash my Chinese CNC again :)?
YOU !! PROBABLY !! CRASHED !! IT !! THAT !! MANY !! TIMES !! YOU !! SIMPLY !! PUT !! STRAIGHT !! INTO !! THE !! METAL !! SHREADDER !!! AND !! HAPPILY !! LIVED !! EVER !!! AFTER !!!
Glad to see you used my suggestion about U-drills, they are awesome.
They are meant to "squeal" when your cutting with them roughing a bore.
I would suggest milling a flat for easier setups. To set it up, put the tool in a V-Block and clock the highest point on the diameter, move down half to get the centre. Then run the clock across the tip of the tip, rotating the tool until it reads "0" and it should be on centre-line.
Daniel Way yeah ,the squealing is normal ,especially when you are boring strong steels
New tooling that works is always fun.
I checked on eBay and they make a 3/8 inch version as well. This could be ideal for a production product I have in the works.
Should do an episode on your fusion 360 programing shortcuts when using this tool.
hi john
i'm working with the same tool on a cnc lathe and if you spin the spindel ccw you can cut the od
Have you got any tips on programming a lathe with this tool in fusion 360?
ever figure it out? I just got one and am searching
If you're going to bore with it, it really does need to be 'clocked'....eh?
Good vids.
Note, The polished inserts for aluminum are not needed. Just use regular steel inserts, they break the chip better. Sharp polished inserts leave a great finish, but dont break a chip well unless pushed hard.
Sandvik u-drills are great for punching fast holes in almost any material.
Agree, put a flat on that drill, after you clock it 180 degrees. Run tools upside down.
Nonono John no. You don't just turn the shank down to 3/8 because you have that size holders. The flat face is there to make it square if you bore with it but the holder has to have set screw for that. Now you need to manually set it to do properly anything else than drilling.
Makes production a ton easier always if you are able to reduce tools like having drilling, boring, facing and possibly something else on the same tool.
Z zero off front edge not back edge and be sure its clocked to cut across center. You will have great success with this type drill. Very cool for several operations for sure.
Although they will not do a square corner I use ultradex drills on my cnc lathe and they work great. Drill and then rough boring before switching to a heavy metal boring bar for finishing the bores. On the other hand my smallest ultradex is .625. I have never bought them from shars but I did notice they also sell the ultradex line. These drills are made in the USA also which is nice.
ULTRADEX ! ULTRA DOLLARS !!
That's nuts! Will have to get one for my manual lathe
Awesome I almost bought that same tool but didn't because of the 1 shank". Didn't even think to trim it down.
Insert drills are awesome! We use them also. They work also great on the mill. The initial investment is bigger than carbide drills but you can swap inserts so in the end they are more economical to use.
I like your videos, just in case you didn't know you should have faced from top of part down. I used similar tools from name brand tool makers and are great for multi tasking. Thanks showing a cheap source of tooling for drill/bore tools
just love watching your video every week. Nice......Hope to start doing something for myself.
You can do the same operation with the Performax Drills from SECO Tools, faster and reliable
They are great. It can do a nice countersink to the hole,chamfer the edge and radius the edge. A tool well worth having.
Are you using the slant pro or fusion? I have one and am trying to figure out how to set it up
"Abom79ed it in" :) :)
Nice tool. Love your videos!
Just ordered one. I think I will make a toolholder to fit my Aloris to suit this bore/face/step tool.
Hi John, not sure if any one said yet but we use these tools and to machine the O/D you just run the spindle in reverse and machine from the back 8-)Regards Adrian
Great little tool! love tooling that takes generic inserts.
Keep up the good work. I enjoy watching your videos!
Love it but chip clearing looks like it could be a problem on a close to tool size holes. I'm guessing relieving the shank for chip clearing would cause other problems but great tool for the larger diameter stuff. They do make through tool cooling for twist drills but that is usually on larger diameter stuff and it doesn't leave a nice flat bottom like this does.
You need to adjust the angle of that insert to get rid of the nub if it's low or high will take time to file in though
Check out Coromant 880-series drills, we use them all the time and they have inserts for almost every material like aluminum, steel, stainless steel, titanium etc etc. I think the smallest 880-drill goes down to like 14 mm (little more than 1/2")
Thats pretty sweet John. Did you ever do a video on your dewalt chop saw base and vice?
Have you taken a look at Allied Machine and Engineering"s spade drills? Coolant thru with much better clearance gullets on the shank. Different tips available for various materials. They are purely for drilling but they are also an Ohio company based in Dover/New Philadelphia. Small holes up to drill diameters that you will never use based on the parts I see you making.
They do work great, but when an insert breaks it makes for an expensive wreak. We ran up to 2 1/2 inch 2 insert drills on the Warner Swasey & CinTurn. Great tools.
Does it damage the tool as well if u dont catch it in time
M4 and come from the other direction for turning.
been a long time since i was around cnc's etc i enjoyed this lol :)
Very cool tool
That's pretty neat! I wonder how deep you could go if you extended that "flute" on it and if so how rigid would it be .... maybe something you could put in a video ;) ;)
I like those little red bins you have in the drawer, may I ask where you got them from?
"It's not really clocked... well it was, but I turned that part off"... LOL!!!
Hey Cool RMSchaller bins.. nice!
Great video as usual sir
John, did you ever end up setting this tool up in Fusion360? I'd like to see how you did that, someday.
Did you figure it out? I just got one and am searching
@@wahmhofftechnologies6621 I don't remember. I think I used it once and didn't like it. Long time ago.
Great tool! Ya got me thinkin!
Bet it works in a manual lathe, too.
Thanks,
John
+John Bazaar Yes it does.
At work we just use the inserts for steel when we machine aluminium
we do use flood cooling so the alu doesn't coate the insert
we use the steel inserts for extruded, cast aluminium, bronze, inox works just fine
just give it a try
+NYC CNC I formulated it wrong : ... so the alu doesn't coate the insert to much
What we do when we setup the cnc lathe is using 1 boring bar for roughing so some light coating of the insert doesn't matter
and an other boring bar for the finishing pas
now that is some pretty cool stuff :D
one tool for more things so more other tools possible to be used as well... great investment I would say John... congrats on that find :D
greetings from Lower Austria
Karl :-)
i got a question, when your using it to bore a hole after drilling isn´t the carbide bit on the outside getting more wear then the one on the inside, or is it not a big deal?
Just wondering if anyone has some tips on how to program this tool in Fusion 360. I would like to use it for initial drill and then continue boring with the same setup. In my head the drill operation requires tool offset to be centerline of the holder like a drill bit, but then when i go to bore the tip of the insert is offset from centerline...Losing my mind at the moment.
Did you ever figure this out? I just got one..
the flat for clocking is so that your tip is on center height for boring/facing etc.
+NYC CNC haha. perfect response
They make a mean ZrN-coated aluminum-cutting end mill too!
Yeah, Shars. I bought one on a whim, not expecting much, and now they're my end mill of choice.
not suppose to peck with those drill and if you get strings feed the drill harder
+Chief Machining Yes! Always full pelt with those type of drills.
I'm sure the tsc helped a lot huh :)
If you don't have high pressure coolant through the tool then you will get chip packing. Pecking is the only way to stop it.
Pecked 1.25 Insert Drill in titanium at 1500RPM .0015 IPR .150 per peck... THose inserts were VERY HAPPY. I have never seen carbide tools last this long on a material this hard,
I have to run a chip break cycle the first inch, and then switch to pecking for the last .750 even for aluminum. An insert intended for steel works better because the chipbreaker actually breaks the chips instead of curing them Otherwise chips pack in the bottom of the hole. If you have high pressure coolant that isn't an issue.
I've been doing this for 40+ years, I just use a milling slot drill only use drills under 6mm, 1/4"
you didnt have turret before? and you can cut outer diameter with that tool too just use M4
Boy that's cool for 2016. Been doing that since 1995
I'm Sorry..... i have to ask.....
What is the big deal here? we have been using this drill for the last 10 years+?
I dont see the whole new idé? are you so far behind in the US? or why all this excitment?
No hard feeling, i'm just curious? (sorry for bad english, not my mother language)
Best Regards
Mikkel
Darn, You just cost me money!!! Those look like a great solution.
Chris
Tools like this have been avaliable for more than 20 years. You can also use it to turn outside diameters.
Like Joel said, take face cuts and look at the numb until you get on center or a hair above. The nub should disappear. Surface finish and tool life will greatly improve. Crank up the rpm and IPR. They love to be pushed. In aluminum you should be triple that to start. Don't peck just hit it. Your noise is from the short flute packed up with stringy chips. It's hairy the first time you run it like it wants to be. Think of doing a roughing pass at .002 feed...
+NYC CNC in the video you mentioned it's only feeding at 2 thou per rev
I have the 5/8 version of this tool, running on the same 15l slant Pro lathe. I haven't had much success with it though. When drilling the back side of the insert always cracks (probably from rubbing). Cutting recommendations for it are not available from Shars and they don't seem to understand when I send them a message asking about it. And, Path Pilot and CAM software are not liking the tool being able to do more than one type of operation. It makes a good boring bar though.
Did you ever figure out the issues with this?
great tool and it speeds up the process because you dont have to switch tools, curious about how it will work in steel or stainless.
I use Iscar insert drills on steel and stainless everyday, they work great.
if you're working on center, clocking doesn't matter.. If you're using it as a boring bar.. of course it does.
And you can turn the OD AND BRAKE EDGES TO right?
Thats neat
nice job!
why not just keep the spindle speed all the time i.e. 100 rpm over the critical speed?
Want want want !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Abom79 is a verb now?
For FaceTime ng, run the lathe in reverse, and from the back
+NYC CNC BTW, I'll go one step further. I've seen them used for turning by running the lathe in reverse. You turn and face from the back side, with the lathe in reverse, then drill and bore with the lathe running forward. No tool change...
Why would a saw cut make it out of round? Did you mean that the faced-off surface wasn't square to the centerline?
He H ! S ! IT !!
Wouldn't a normal aluminium end mill mounted in the lathe do the same thing? Except the through coolant.
+Auarhau they can be used that way but it is poor practice to use end mills as drills, not only are they WAY less productive than a insert drill like john is showcasing but they dont have the proper clearences to evacuate chips, so you end up with blown out holes and chipped tools!
@@paullagowski1669 YOU !! WOULD !! BE !! USING !! THEM !! IF !! YOU !! HAD !! NOTHING ! ELSE !!
set it up with the insert oriented like a boring bar, and on center like a drill. use the recommended feed/speed provided by the manufacturer. you try what you did in the video on a harder material and you gonna destroy that cub drill. LOL, you making machinists giggle .....
I always use spade drills,are these better
Mike Sanchez ,mike I've used both throughout my years on the cnc lathe and i think these indexable drills are alot more rigid and firm.Basically stronger than a spade insert ,because (my option)if you look at the support the inserts have on a spade drill and an indexable the indexable is made to where the inserts do not hang off the sides and it's more like part of that bar that's pushing all the force through.You know with spade inserts on a bigger bore and on extreme material you could go through quite a few inserts,t
SPADE !! DRILLS !!! ARE !! A !! PILE !! OF !! JUNK !!
Dang it, of course it's discontinued! This would have been a great tool for what I'm trying to achieve at the moment. >.
Nvm Found one
They are not new.also you do have to clock them especially on steel.also there is a minimum hole diameter.you cant drill undersize or else you will destroy the drill.you cant drill a hole smaller than what the drill is designed for
Can,you cnc drill lath machine offset fanuce cantrol
Since you are below center I guess you have to compensate for the fact you bore oversize.
I drill on X 0 for the first plunge, you'll get a needle in the blind hole from the center of the drill if you're doing that right.
John
That tool cut well until you pecked , then chips welded
Though coolant maybe would have helped but to my view when you exceeded the depth of the insert there was no room for the chips to clear.
What do the sales splurge say for min dia and depth ( inferior or metric will do ) nasty Brit humour 🙄
Interesting tool I would like to see that in the CNC mill could be very useful
Stuart
looks like a short gun drill with an insert to me.
You are clamping the drill 180 degrees wrong.
These are not new..... and yes they do need to be clocked
4:48 slinky!!!!!!!!
sandvik
i abom79`d it in hahah
Upload the long shaft boring vedio
You will want to orientate the drill exactly opposite of the way you have it in the video for ease of programming when you bore with it.
Serious, and you teach CNC classes, this is basics man. My advice, buy a freaking tool and cutter grinder and learn to use it, no it's not 'puter based where you get to reset and try again. Also, way to name drop all video, never seen this from you before, Adam would know what the hell he is doing, not guessing and buying from a Chinese supplier and than "So Happy Folks" when a crap tool works. Did I crash my Chinese CNC again :)?
DivWerb sounds like you are a tweaker
Shut up nob
YOU !! PROBABLY !! CRASHED !! IT !! THAT !! MANY !! TIMES !! YOU !! SIMPLY !! PUT !! STRAIGHT !! INTO !! THE !! METAL !! SHREADDER !!! AND !! HAPPILY !! LIVED !! EVER !!! AFTER !!!
Very cool tool