Ok so apparently everyone is mad that I didn't do the bridged connections on the second part of the puzzle accurately. This is very true. I'd also like to point out that electrical engineering is wizard voodoo magic that is impossible to understand regardless.
as somebody thats in electronic manufacturing i can confirm many diagrams are in black and white, and are very hard to read. even following the lines in this is difficult to read. i love the resistor color code ones where the colors or just darker and lighter shades of black. different ideas but same logic.
I like the idea of it being like a real schematic how they are usually drawn in 1 color or all in black. But for the sake of zeepkist players not all being able to read this it might be easier to maybe highlight the positive lines in green to see how they effect each gates output.
So as an engineering student I sat down and did the logic required to solve this. There are a few mistakes, but the biggest issue is that there are multiple answers to a problem like this when you go backwards. I think this puzzle would have benefitted if you had given the inputs and asked them to solve the code of the output instead. Then there would truly only be one possible combination
I was worried about making mistakes as I was duplicating the diagram here from the logic connections I had made in Scrap Mechanic. If there are mistakes it would be because I copied it wrong... whoops
@@kANGamingregardless thanks for the video! It’s very cool seeing the stuff I’m working on in class in the game. I’m definitely buying Zeepkist as soon as I’m less broke
I've been working backwards through it and the problem is the nand gates as they can have different inputs and give the same output, all I've been able to work out is that 1278 have the same output, 469 have the opposite output, with 03 being the same but not sure if they match with 1278 or 469 and then 5 without any matches. After watching KAN go through 678 all positive I had a second look but if you look at the 8 xor gate it is fed from the not 6 and not 7, the xor leads to the 2nd and gate which is shown as a positive and as such the output of the xor must be positive which means that the output of the not 6 and the not 7 is different and therefore in the combination 6 and 7 cannot be the same. Edit: I'm not dissing the map I think its a cool concept and error or not it took me way longer than the map time to come to any solution so don't think it would've mattered anyway
I could find 4 solutions, none of which were the correct route in the video... also the xor gates mean that for any solution there is another which is equal to its logical inverse
Today we're back with more Zeepkist. "I wanted to make podium for once so I made an near impossible logic puzzle that you have to solve in 8 minutes or less."
Basically: since I don't have the driving skills to win anymore, I made a map that requires skills unrelated to driving in this skill driving game. Very good troll, kAN
I solved logic charts like this in college 40 years ago. Even then, this would probably have taken me about 20 minutes. I quickly saw that if you flip the NANDs to ANDs and change their outputs, only the top two are lit. So you need the top two AND gates to have all inputs on, and can probably ignore the rest of the AND gates and their inputs. I quickly traced those two AND gates back to the six XOR gates that need to be on. And then slammed into a figurative wall. I didn't feel like building the table needed to solve what initial gates need to be on to turn on the right six XORs. Making them XORs makes this much harder - there are two choices for each.
Oh, that's how it's solvable, I didn't realize the significance of how the final NOTs changing the colors could simplified the problem as a whole. I spent an hour on this and gave up when I realized I made a mistake. I don't think I ever had a problem like this in college lol.
Thanks for your hint with the top two AND gates. That's how I solved it. And when I say "solved it" I mean "was able to show that there's a mistake in the diagram". Tracing those 6 wires back to the XOR gates gives you 6 conditions for which inputs have to be equal or different. And then, a _certain number_ of the remaining 4 XOR gates have to outputs 0's to not turn the lower AND gates on and NAND gates off.
Once you have those gates, you can also trace the connections backwards to the inputs and forwards to another (N)AND gate with 2 inputs high, to see the other input needs to be low. That leaves 3 of the XORs undefined, but you can quickly see that if the top XOR was high, it would be impossible, as the remaining 2 would be different and unable to complete the circuit. Using colour coding in MSPaint makes it easier.
I'm somewhat surprised so many people got nerd sniped, but I guess since you don't find out if you were right until the end, trying to crowd sourced it wasn't feasible.
@@Psychshifted There are a few conventions that can be used. One, which makes this trivial to read (but still hard to analyse) is a convention that a + is always a bridge, while a plug with a dot is a branch, and a T is a branch.
Kan, You are diabolical and I love it. Can I point out that it would be a little easier to read if the lines had some color variety.. It’s not very easy to read. I do a little logic but can’t follow, I see outputs going to outputs when the camera is still 🫠 overlapping lines in 2d I wanted to solve it myself while paused and immediately saw that
I backtracked all possible logical operations, which leads to these equations: (a) 1 = 2 = 7 = 8 (b) 0 = 3 = 4 = 6 = 9 (c) all inputs in (a) are the negation (NOT) of those in (b) (d) 5 can be anything So there are a total of 4 possible answers: - All those in (a) are on, (b) off, and 5 is on - All those in (a) are on, (b) off, and 5 is off - All those in (a) are off, (b) on, and 5 is on - All those in (a) are off, (b) on, and 5 is off But this causes contradiction with kANs solution. If his solution were to be true, then the output LED must be: On, On, Off, Off, Off, Off, Off, On Or switch the first 2 NAND with AND gates and leave the original LED outputs.
I got the same solution as you. Though if kans input was 010001110 I think the output should’ve been on off off off on off off on so it’s the second (an and) and the third (an nand) gate that should be switched around. However, with the switch, there are now 10 different solutions that are allowed instead of the 4 currently allowed with the circuit…..
I think there is an error in the diagram: the 8th XOR gate connects to the bottom input of the 2nd AND gate, and therefore must be true. For the 8th XOR gate to be true, either "not 6" or "not 7" (but not both) must be true. So the code can't have 6 and 7 true at the same time.
Looks like the third lamp will be off too. Maybe second gate on the right was supposed to be NAND, and third gate was supposed to be an AND gate, then provided solution will work. But in this case, there will be at least one more solution, due to the symmetry of the circuit, where switches will be turned on in the direction opposite to the provided solution.
The biggest error in the diagram is 4 and 6... If 4 is on, then it turns on XOR gate 7, and if 6 is on it also turns on XOR gate 7. And with 2 inputs it should turn off, and therefore The Top output in the Logic which require XOR gates 3 7 and 10 active at the same time... fails. and yes it also turns off XOR 8 with 6 and 7 active.
If someone actually figures this out in the time given for each map, congrats to them. This is a puzzle that is too complicated for most people to figure out in such a short time frame. "Isn't this fun?" No kan, it's not.
"Hey guys! Kan here back in ZEEPKIST and I had my Wheaties today and made my friends hate me by making a 19 combo track. Let's see if I can reconcile my friendships and see what they think" Kan, you're a nerd. Ily
I still love the idea of "Blackjack Finishers" where you compete with your friends to get as close to only 10 people finishing WITHOUT going over as possible. If nothing else, it's a good map building exercise to practice managing difficulty.
The bigger problem is that there are 2 combinations which work. The section on the right tells you if the output of the XOR gates are on or off. But XOR gates are only saying if the inputs are different or the same. You can work through it all, making everything relative to the input 0. But that then gives one combination where 0 is high, and another where 0 is low. The combinations I got where: 0100111011 1011000100 Where both allowed or just 1?
I’m fairly certain input 5 has no effect on the output either. I ran it through a quick python script and there are four codes that work: 0110000110 0110010110 1001101001 1001111001
Correct; but even worse there's two _or more._ In fact, there's 14 combinations; 7 of those pairs of inverse solutions. [edit: wait, just realized that I'm wrong. There's almost certainly just 2.]
@@vibaj16 My bad, I appear to have misread something. I think I read the bottom NAND gate as an AND gate. Redoing it, I get 4 options: 10011*1001 01100*0110 Where * represents either 0 or 1 independent from the others. And yes, what he used in the run was not correct.
Engineer here. If your drawing room gives you a schematic that looks like this, call the army on them. Yes, kAN, it needs the little loops where wires cross. What you've drawn is a fully interconnected block between the XORs and ANDs, practically a single wire, and the same, save a single solo wire at the top before the XORs. I like logic puzzles, I couldn't be bothered with this one, as other people don't look at this through your eyes. You can't tell me the bottom XOR gate doesn't connect to every single AND/NAND gate. >:(
I would usually love to try and figure it out, but it is 8:40 am on the weekend and it is hurting my brain... LOGIC STUFF DOESN'T NORMALLY HURT MY BRAIN, KAN!!!
I know my logic gates and I had a video that I could pause in order to give me unlimited time to solve this, yet I was unable to because it's near-impossible to tell where each line goes.
The logic and physics stuff you and Dapper do is amazing! Track idea --- Driving up the outside of a really scaled up tube with fans or something so you can drive up any part of it without falling. You could make it a choose your route map to find the fastest time. Kind of the opposite of Dapper's old giant pot hole track. Bonus points if you can figure out how to give people an option to transition to the inside of the tube or force them to transition back and forth.
An idea for a map you could do is make it so the better at the game you are, the harder the track becomes I'm not too sure how you would do it, maybe if a person takes a tight corner or take a line that only a good zeepkist player would take, it activates a logic block or something
Idea: Revamp your fast flipping speed tracks with logic. -Whether that be: time gating, route changing, or even trigger based checkpoints that unlock the final straightaway/jump?. Maybe all.
"oh yeah that's a AND gate and that's a XOR gate and..." Bruh. Those were random shapes to my brain this late xD. I'm used to like == and != and || from my time in uscript coding, but I was completely clueless with these symbols lmao. Also that snipe at the end, I'm still calling hax >:|
So yeah, I checked whether 14678 was correct, and it wasn't (I guess I'm not the first one to point that out). Inputting 14678 yields 10001001, that is, the second and third bit mismatch. I also checked for correct solutions; there are 4: 1278, 12578, 03469 and 034569. Actually, it's not surprising that there are multiple solutions (that's why I checked in the first place), as there 2^10=1024 possible inputs, but only 2^8 possible results, meaning on average 4 inputs yield the same result. Which raises the question: Is there an input which has only a unique result? I ran the calculations, and I've got some advice: - Don't choose an input that yields 00101001, because there will 459 different inputs that share the same result. - Don't choose the result 01010101 or one of the other 170 results which have no solutions. - In general, if some combination results in some value, the opposite combination also results in that same value. E.g. if 023456 yields 00100111, so will 1789. This is because of the XOR gates; negating the input results in the same XOR value (0^0 = 1^1, 0^1 = 1^0). - For that reason, combinations only come in pairs, so while there are several combinations which have only 1 other combination with the same result (e.g. 023456 | 1789 from above), there are no ideal combinations that uniquely satisfy an equation. So, since solving the equation wasn't possible, what about crowd sourcing? - Every player has 11 minutes, each run takes ~40s to see whether the combination was correct (including the start countdown) -> 11 * 60 / 40 = 16 runs/player - There are 1024 combinations to try, so 1024 / 16 = 64 players required If all people want a chance to finish, there is only 10 minutes for testing, so that there are 15s to share the combinations and 45s for everyone to drive it. That means only 10 * 60 / 40 = 15 runs/player, and thus 1024/15 = 69 players would be required.
excellent analysis! I worked out those same 4 solutions (took me longer than an 11 minute lobby lol) but I didn't do the extra work to find out how many solutions are impossible vs result in multiple "correct" inputs.
I recreated the circuit. With the schematic provided, solution "14678" gives the output 00111001. One possible solution to get the light output kAN has on the schematic (11101001) is "025689". Can confirm, kAN is a dingus. Or I might've read the connections to AND and NAND gates wrong. With how messy the right part of the diagram is, everything's possible. Except for kAN not being a dingus. That part is an universal constant.
The logic diagram reminds me of the time I've spent looking over motorcycle wiring diagrams - none of the logic gates, of course, but all black lines with letter codes indicating the wire color, a lot of which are a base color and a stripe color
Bro, this track is so (NP-)hard... For those that don't understand nerd humor: Boolean satisfiability (SAT), is a problem where a computer has to determine whether a given Boolean equation can be satisfied (i.e. made true). This problem is proven NP-complete (i.e. we don't know whether a polynomial time (read "fast") algorithm exists). By extension any NP-complete problem is also NP-Hard. Just google the rest if ur interested, although I doubt it xD (I tried to solve it and my PC blue screened...)
It could be even easier just one tunnel with the ball through it and logic barriers. If you go through the side you designate as the correct path, you go through the trigger that turns off the barrier and the ball continues. If you don’t it just stays there and every other correct path you go through thereafter means you simply have already failed the combination.
Dude, I tried solving the puzzle just for the fun of it and I figured that a ruler, pencil, pad of paper, and the just go with one side first approach, was the best method. Solved it in seconds as soon as I was able to pause the video when the lines were unblurred.
This is dope. I could be able figure out the answer, but not in the time limit. It would probably take half an hour or 45 minutes. But my education in logic is when I learned c++ in basic computer programming in high school 15 years ago. I wouldn't have known how to read the diagram without an explanation or googling how to read one. I understood how to read it as soon as you explained what each of the gates meant. Very enjoyable video and puzzle, even if everyone thinks it's a troll.
Working it out the set of possible solution collapses to 2, because of your usage of XOR gates, which results in having 2 categories of numbers and the only way to know which category is on and the other off is to just test the track
Well, solving a race the engineering way ^^ I really like it, that you used your knowledge from old work to get your win, because these are exactly the skills, that make you win in Zeepkist on your own tracks x3 Do more like this, maybe next time with a different type of display, that´s a tiny bit more humane to read (for example still use red, but different tones of red, so that there´s a slightly better chance to follow the wiring) and with a more beautiful map, that distracts people from what they´ve remembered (Or make them drive the wiring itself as an on-pipe-maze with boosters and slowsters, that get out, when certain gates are triggered).
OK, I am just at the start of the video, but all those wires are the same color, and they all cross over each other or merge or diverge, I have no idea. It is better to explicit show what is happening at the junction by either an arc over the wire, or cut the line short on both sides with with white space in-between for crossover. Then a dot at the junction can be used if they touch and share a signal.
Have been watching kAN's Zeepkist content for several weeks, and just realized, based on various language-nerdery, that "Zeepkist" is almost certainly just Dutch for "Soapbox".
As others are saying, there's an error in the diagram, the combo to this one is (top down) 1001111001 or 1001101001 or 011000110, not 0100101110, as you put in.
"The entire right side is irrelevant" is a nonsensical statement because the right side of the diagram is the only thing that gives information on the code...
You remind me of one of my university professor who expected us to solve things like this in a verbal exam with no paper under a minute. I still hate that person.
what would have been more diabolical is if after the combination, you had a trigger for hands up, so even if you had the combo correct, the only way to get through would be with hands up. (And don't tell anyone hands need to be up) that would be chaotic evil.
If I'm interpreting the diagram correctly, the solution is incorrect. The second light being on indicates that all inputs to that AND are true. One of those inputs is ~6^~7, which implies that 6 and 7 must be opposite values. Kan's solution has them both as on. This isn't the only one, but is the most obvious mistake. Also, using XOR in the middle for all paths makes it so there are at least two solutions to the logic diagram to get those outputs, each being an XOR of the other. I believe that the value of 5 doesn't matter as outlined in the logic either, which leaves 4 solutions (2 overall for XOR logic times 2 for different values of the #5 digit) For completeness, I think the correct solutions should be: 0110000110 0110010110 1001111001 1001101001
As a computer scientist, not an engineer, I *in theory* would have known everything I needed to solve the puzzle, but wouldn't have actually *worked* with such diagrams before. I wonder if I'd have been able to solve it in time!
I could likely have figured it out as well, given enough time. Not sure if 10 minutes or so would be enough, however. Cool concept, but I feel like most people have liyerally zero idea how to go about solving logic like this IRL, so it's kinda unfair as a premise.
@@vibaj16 Yes, that's exactly what I've found out. It's a real shame that kAN didn't check his work properly and thus ended up uploading a map that can't be solved :/
I love that you built it in scrap mechanic too.. we once had a lap couse in uni where we had to do logic gate stuff, we tested that in scrap mechanic as well
My 13yr old son is spend his weekend solving this. I had to go over some of the logic explinations but the fact he is enjoying th puzzle while watching one our favourite youtuber is great.
How about A Zeepkist! Map where you build an elaborate map of hidden paths that are visible from above using a Paraglider. however using the Paraglider makes completing the map impossible. So you have to run the map as a Soapbox car, but the Glider gives you the correct path. And maybe a secret message to the players? I think you could do something really cool like your Logic Circuit track, but visible only from above with a Paraglider.
Kan, you should learn how to make an LFSR (linear feedback shift register) using logic resources, so that you can generate pseudorandom bits to *really* confuse people.
Those logic gates present multiple solutions to your puzzle. 4 to be exact when I have Logisim analyze it. Are you sure that your actual implementation only has one solution?
The worst part is this runs the risk of having multiple solutions, and while you're solving it there's an exponential number of combinations you have to reconcile. For the NAND gates, there's 7 possible combinations of inputs to produce a true, and 1 for false. Then you get to the XOR gates, and there's 2 combinations for each output of each gate. Then there's the NOT gates, which, have the relationship that one wire is the inverse of another wire, which then you have to basically brute force all the combinations of stuff going into the XOR gates by checking if the NOT gate relationships hold. Even an "optimized" brute force would be too slow with the amount of GARBAGE. It's kind of like a hash function or one of those one-way math functions that are easy to do one way, but incredibly difficult to do in reverse. And there's hash collisions.
This comment is a spleef idea! The spud guns are 3 long but having them 2 wide would solve the missing connection point problem, so you wouldn't have to exit your vehicle and shoot at them with a handheld spudgun
make a zeepkist map where the players have to drive over switches to keep a giant nuclear reactor in the middle of the track, you have to watch the temp meter to make sure its not getting too hot, and also drive over the control rod switches to regulate the temp
I work with such gate diagrams weekly and if one of my colleagues gave me this diagram I would straight ask them if they are joking and laugh in their face regardless. Without any bridges/dots for the signal connections (wires) this may be the worst diagram I have ever frikandel seen.
There is the one line that goes from the combination of 8 and 9 and it goes all the way up to the top green light and i can't tell which lines connect to it and which don't
@ I went and read a few comments and saw other people saying the diagram was incorrect! That somehow makes this video even better seeing as how Kan only barely won! 🤣
Interesting you just take one side and flip it upside down. If you could get the first number and know that 9 is the complete reset It's relatively easy.
I simulated your circuit in Every Circuit, but I can't get it working. Hell of a job debugging it on a tiny phone screen if I got all the connections right, or if it just can't use this correctly. Probably the latter.
As an auto mechanic who reads auto wiring diagrams daily for over 10 years i’m hella confused with these xor etc gates, i don’t recognize anything other than diodes here 😂 if it wasn’t for your explanation, i’d still be confused lol
Ok so apparently everyone is mad that I didn't do the bridged connections on the second part of the puzzle accurately. This is very true.
I'd also like to point out that electrical engineering is wizard voodoo magic that is impossible to understand regardless.
A safe way to do it would be to use different colors as able.
Instructions not clear❗
As an electrical engineering student, I'm seeking recommendations for a wizard hat.
as somebody thats in electronic manufacturing i can confirm many diagrams are in black and white, and are very hard to read. even following the lines in this is difficult to read. i love the resistor color code ones where the colors or just darker and lighter shades of black. different ideas but same logic.
@@kANGaming We're not mad. Just disappointed. 🥲
Problem is after the XOR, that mess of wires is almost impossible to read. Needed to have multiple colors.
Yeah, if I was drafting a schematic for this I would've used labels so it's at least somewhat followable
I like the idea of it being like a real schematic how they are usually drawn in 1 color or all in black.
But for the sake of zeepkist players not all being able to read this it might be easier to maybe highlight the positive lines in green to see how they effect each gates output.
Kan said in the video, when someone gives you this diagram, it's in black and white. So the challenge is within spec. XD
@matthewrao3319 I see your point. But custom maps are for players that want a challenge. progression is not Gated
or different levels
So as an engineering student I sat down and did the logic required to solve this. There are a few mistakes, but the biggest issue is that there are multiple answers to a problem like this when you go backwards. I think this puzzle would have benefitted if you had given the inputs and asked them to solve the code of the output instead. Then there would truly only be one possible combination
I was worried about making mistakes as I was duplicating the diagram here from the logic connections I had made in Scrap Mechanic. If there are mistakes it would be because I copied it wrong... whoops
@@kANGamingregardless thanks for the video! It’s very cool seeing the stuff I’m working on in class in the game. I’m definitely buying Zeepkist as soon as I’m less broke
I've been working backwards through it and the problem is the nand gates as they can have different inputs and give the same output, all I've been able to work out is that 1278 have the same output, 469 have the opposite output, with 03 being the same but not sure if they match with 1278 or 469 and then 5 without any matches.
After watching KAN go through 678 all positive I had a second look but if you look at the 8 xor gate it is fed from the not 6 and not 7, the xor leads to the 2nd and gate which is shown as a positive and as such the output of the xor must be positive which means that the output of the not 6 and the not 7 is different and therefore in the combination 6 and 7 cannot be the same.
Edit: I'm not dissing the map I think its a cool concept and error or not it took me way longer than the map time to come to any solution so don't think it would've mattered anyway
I could find 4 solutions, none of which were the correct route in the video... also the xor gates mean that for any solution there is another which is equal to its logical inverse
Today we're back with more Zeepkist. "I wanted to make podium for once so I made an near impossible logic puzzle that you have to solve in 8 minutes or less."
Yet at the same time, the game clearly said he had 166 wins now... that is a decent amount already imo
plus he got the solution wrong
@@GummieI166 is about the amount you can get by just messing around for a day lol
Basically: since I don't have the driving skills to win anymore, I made a map that requires skills unrelated to driving in this skill driving game.
Very good troll, kAN
The code is not even correct hahaha
I solved logic charts like this in college 40 years ago. Even then, this would probably have taken me about 20 minutes.
I quickly saw that if you flip the NANDs to ANDs and change their outputs, only the top two are lit. So you need the top two AND gates to have all inputs on, and can probably ignore the rest of the AND gates and their inputs.
I quickly traced those two AND gates back to the six XOR gates that need to be on.
And then slammed into a figurative wall. I didn't feel like building the table needed to solve what initial gates need to be on to turn on the right six XORs. Making them XORs makes this much harder - there are two choices for each.
Oh, that's how it's solvable, I didn't realize the significance of how the final NOTs changing the colors could simplified the problem as a whole. I spent an hour on this and gave up when I realized I made a mistake. I don't think I ever had a problem like this in college lol.
I did all the work and found that there's actually 4 solutions, none of which are his.
@@vibaj16 he did mention the zeep logic was greatly simplified...
Thanks for your hint with the top two AND gates. That's how I solved it. And when I say "solved it" I mean "was able to show that there's a mistake in the diagram".
Tracing those 6 wires back to the XOR gates gives you 6 conditions for which inputs have to be equal or different.
And then, a _certain number_ of the remaining 4 XOR gates have to outputs 0's to not turn the lower AND gates on and NAND gates off.
Once you have those gates, you can also trace the connections backwards to the inputs and forwards to another (N)AND gate with 2 inputs high, to see the other input needs to be low.
That leaves 3 of the XORs undefined, but you can quickly see that if the top XOR was high, it would be impossible, as the remaining 2 would be different and unable to complete the circuit.
Using colour coding in MSPaint makes it easier.
“today we’re back in zeepkist and I made a 10 switch combination lock”
think about that for a second and just how absurd it is lol!
I'm somewhat surprised so many people got nerd sniped, but I guess since you don't find out if you were right until the end, trying to crowd sourced it wasn't feasible.
The big thing is that without dots or bridges it was literally unreadable.
@@Psychshifted not literally
@@Psychshifted There are a few conventions that can be used.
One, which makes this trivial to read (but still hard to analyse) is a convention that a + is always a bridge, while a plug with a dot is a branch, and a T is a branch.
Kan, You are diabolical and I love it. Can I point out that it would be a little easier to read if the lines had some color variety.. It’s not very easy to read. I do a little logic but can’t follow, I see outputs going to outputs when the camera is still 🫠 overlapping lines in 2d
I wanted to solve it myself while paused and immediately saw that
Pretty sure that's intentional.
Well real circuit diagram on paper are all black. Even many professional schematics software only has 1 color (at most 2 when simulating)
@@thoughtsengineerYes but they have dots at junctions so you can read them.
@ with some sort of indicator that it overlaps though
@@60NineK Most I have seen do the opposite.
There is an indicator if it is a junction. Otherwise a + is assumed to pass over without connecting.
I backtracked all possible logical operations, which leads to these equations:
(a) 1 = 2 = 7 = 8
(b) 0 = 3 = 4 = 6 = 9
(c) all inputs in (a) are the negation (NOT) of those in (b)
(d) 5 can be anything
So there are a total of 4 possible answers:
- All those in (a) are on, (b) off, and 5 is on
- All those in (a) are on, (b) off, and 5 is off
- All those in (a) are off, (b) on, and 5 is on
- All those in (a) are off, (b) on, and 5 is off
But this causes contradiction with kANs solution.
If his solution were to be true, then the output LED must be:
On, On, Off, Off, Off, Off, Off, On
Or switch the first 2 NAND with AND gates and leave the original LED outputs.
yep
I got the same solution as you. Though if kans input was 010001110 I think the output should’ve been on off off off on off off on so it’s the second (an and) and the third (an nand) gate that should be switched around. However, with the switch, there are now 10 different solutions that are allowed instead of the 4 currently allowed with the circuit…..
@@jeffreyblack666 that corresponds to (c)
@@yyc1992 correct
@@vibaj16 My bad, didn't see the read more
Kan being so close to not winning was actually crazy tense
I think there is an error in the diagram: the 8th XOR gate connects to the bottom input of the 2nd AND gate, and therefore must be true. For the 8th XOR gate to be true, either "not 6" or "not 7" (but not both) must be true. So the code can't have 6 and 7 true at the same time.
I saw the same thing and was super confused by what Kan was saying. He must have made a mistake in the diagram.
Yeah saw that too, definitely made a mistake
Looks like the third lamp will be off too. Maybe second gate on the right was supposed to be NAND, and third gate was supposed to be an AND gate, then provided solution will work. But in this case, there will be at least one more solution, due to the symmetry of the circuit, where switches will be turned on in the direction opposite to the provided solution.
The biggest error in the diagram is 4 and 6... If 4 is on, then it turns on XOR gate 7, and if 6 is on it also turns on XOR gate 7. And with 2 inputs it should turn off, and therefore The Top output in the Logic which require XOR gates 3 7 and 10 active at the same time... fails. and yes it also turns off XOR 8 with 6 and 7 active.
@@livedandletdieThe 7th XOR is "not 4" XOR 6. That's fine.
I'm not even in the lobby yet I too am tempted to leave it for ten minutes
If someone actually figures this out in the time given for each map, congrats to them. This is a puzzle that is too complicated for most people to figure out in such a short time frame. "Isn't this fun?" No kan, it's not.
"Hey guys! Kan here back in ZEEPKIST and I had my Wheaties today and made my friends hate me by making a 19 combo track. Let's see if I can reconcile my friendships and see what they think"
Kan, you're a nerd. Ily
I still love the idea of "Blackjack Finishers" where you compete with your friends to get as close to only 10 people finishing WITHOUT going over as possible. If nothing else, it's a good map building exercise to practice managing difficulty.
The bigger problem is that there are 2 combinations which work.
The section on the right tells you if the output of the XOR gates are on or off.
But XOR gates are only saying if the inputs are different or the same.
You can work through it all, making everything relative to the input 0.
But that then gives one combination where 0 is high, and another where 0 is low.
The combinations I got where:
0100111011
1011000100
Where both allowed or just 1?
Actually, there are 4 solutions, and none are the one his track uses. He made a mistake somewhere in the diagram.
I’m fairly certain input 5 has no effect on the output either.
I ran it through a quick python script and there are four codes that work:
0110000110
0110010110
1001101001
1001111001
Correct; but even worse there's two _or more._ In fact, there's 14 combinations; 7 of those pairs of inverse solutions.
[edit: wait, just realized that I'm wrong. There's almost certainly just 2.]
@@vibaj16 My bad, I appear to have misread something. I think I read the bottom NAND gate as an AND gate.
Redoing it, I get 4 options:
10011*1001
01100*0110
Where * represents either 0 or 1 independent from the others.
And yes, what he used in the run was not correct.
@@Pystro there's 4
Engineer here. If your drawing room gives you a schematic that looks like this, call the army on them.
Yes, kAN, it needs the little loops where wires cross. What you've drawn is a fully interconnected block between the XORs and ANDs, practically a single wire, and the same, save a single solo wire at the top before the XORs. I like logic puzzles, I couldn't be bothered with this one, as other people don't look at this through your eyes. You can't tell me the bottom XOR gate doesn't connect to every single AND/NAND gate.
>:(
I'm in the military, this is written better than the wiring schemactics we use for our vehicles.
Just put spheres on intersections that are connections
I would usually love to try and figure it out, but it is 8:40 am on the weekend and it is hurting my brain... LOGIC STUFF DOESN'T NORMALLY HURT MY BRAIN, KAN!!!
I know my logic gates and I had a video that I could pause in order to give me unlimited time to solve this, yet I was unable to because it's near-impossible to tell where each line goes.
The logic and physics stuff you and Dapper do is amazing!
Track idea --- Driving up the outside of a really scaled up tube with fans or something so you can drive up any part of it without falling. You could make it a choose your route map to find the fastest time. Kind of the opposite of Dapper's old giant pot hole track. Bonus points if you can figure out how to give people an option to transition to the inside of the tube or force them to transition back and forth.
Kan made a legitimately unsolvable puzzle and really said “All you gotta do is solve the puzzle” 😂😂😂
Given there's an error in the diagram, it really is impossible to solve using logic. Classic kAN, what a dingus.
the fact that you don't have this on paper makes it 100 times harder
At this point you might as well encrypt a message for the solution with Ceasar or Vigenère and hide the key somewhere on the map.
An idea for a map you could do is make it so the better at the game you are, the harder the track becomes
I'm not too sure how you would do it, maybe if a person takes a tight corner or take a line that only a good zeepkist player would take, it activates a logic block or something
if you go fast between 2 points it closes off the easy path
No even the code is correct lol
Bro made a track so undesirably confusing his friends leave and return to do a double take
Like... I get HOW to do it, but I don't WANT to do it.
Lucky a couple of people finished, so it goes from a terrible, impossible track to just a really hard track.
Idea: Revamp your fast flipping speed tracks with logic.
-Whether that be: time gating, route changing, or even trigger based checkpoints that unlock the final straightaway/jump?. Maybe all.
"oh yeah that's a AND gate and that's a XOR gate and..." Bruh. Those were random shapes to my brain this late xD. I'm used to like == and != and || from my time in uscript coding, but I was completely clueless with these symbols lmao. Also that snipe at the end, I'm still calling hax >:|
So Kan was tired of getting beat on his own tracks, so he made one he is for sure going to beat everyone, lol.
I actually have a few ways to solve this one, but im not sure if i could do it in 10 minutes.
Amazing concept btw, i love it
So yeah, I checked whether 14678 was correct, and it wasn't (I guess I'm not the first one to point that out). Inputting 14678 yields 10001001, that is, the second and third bit mismatch.
I also checked for correct solutions; there are 4: 1278, 12578, 03469 and 034569. Actually, it's not surprising that there are multiple solutions (that's why I checked in the first place), as there 2^10=1024 possible inputs, but only 2^8 possible results, meaning on average 4 inputs yield the same result.
Which raises the question: Is there an input which has only a unique result? I ran the calculations, and I've got some advice:
- Don't choose an input that yields 00101001, because there will 459 different inputs that share the same result.
- Don't choose the result 01010101 or one of the other 170 results which have no solutions.
- In general, if some combination results in some value, the opposite combination also results in that same value. E.g. if 023456 yields 00100111, so will 1789. This is because of the XOR gates; negating the input results in the same XOR value (0^0 = 1^1, 0^1 = 1^0).
- For that reason, combinations only come in pairs, so while there are several combinations which have only 1 other combination with the same result (e.g. 023456 | 1789 from above), there are no ideal combinations that uniquely satisfy an equation.
So, since solving the equation wasn't possible, what about crowd sourcing?
- Every player has 11 minutes, each run takes ~40s to see whether the combination was correct (including the start countdown) -> 11 * 60 / 40 = 16 runs/player
- There are 1024 combinations to try, so 1024 / 16 = 64 players required
If all people want a chance to finish, there is only 10 minutes for testing, so that there are 15s to share the combinations and 45s for everyone to drive it. That means only 10 * 60 / 40 = 15 runs/player, and thus 1024/15 = 69 players would be required.
excellent analysis! I worked out those same 4 solutions (took me longer than an 11 minute lobby lol) but I didn't do the extra work to find out how many solutions are impossible vs result in multiple "correct" inputs.
I recreated the circuit. With the schematic provided, solution "14678" gives the output 00111001. One possible solution to get the light output kAN has on the schematic (11101001) is "025689". Can confirm, kAN is a dingus. Or I might've read the connections to AND and NAND gates wrong. With how messy the right part of the diagram is, everything's possible. Except for kAN not being a dingus. That part is an universal constant.
The logic diagram reminds me of the time I've spent looking over motorcycle wiring diagrams - none of the logic gates, of course, but all black lines with letter codes indicating the wire color, a lot of which are a base color and a stripe color
Bro, this track is so (NP-)hard...
For those that don't understand nerd humor:
Boolean satisfiability (SAT), is a problem where a computer has to determine whether a given Boolean equation can be satisfied (i.e. made true). This problem is proven NP-complete (i.e. we don't know whether a polynomial time (read "fast") algorithm exists). By extension any NP-complete problem is also NP-Hard. Just google the rest if ur interested, although I doubt it xD
(I tried to solve it and my PC blue screened...)
Bluescreen? For 1024 combinations?
Even if your pc just bruteforces it, it should be no problem....
@@TheCatAliasTNT2k haha no it just happened to bluescreen when the circuit was on screen
It could be even easier just one tunnel with the ball through it and logic barriers. If you go through the side you designate as the correct path, you go through the trigger that turns off the barrier and the ball continues. If you don’t it just stays there and every other correct path you go through thereafter means you simply have already failed the combination.
Dude, I tried solving the puzzle just for the fun of it and I figured that a ruler, pencil, pad of paper, and the just go with one side first approach, was the best method. Solved it in seconds as soon as I was able to pause the video when the lines were unblurred.
This is dope. I could be able figure out the answer, but not in the time limit. It would probably take half an hour or 45 minutes. But my education in logic is when I learned c++ in basic computer programming in high school 15 years ago. I wouldn't have known how to read the diagram without an explanation or googling how to read one. I understood how to read it as soon as you explained what each of the gates meant. Very enjoyable video and puzzle, even if everyone thinks it's a troll.
Working it out the set of possible solution collapses to 2, because of your usage of XOR gates, which results in having 2 categories of numbers and the only way to know which category is on and the other off is to just test the track
My brain doesnt do logic normally, nevermind it being past midnight! D:
Engineer 101 : HOW TO GET YOUR ENGINEER DEGREE REVOKED.
Well, solving a race the engineering way ^^ I really like it, that you used your knowledge from old work to get your win, because these are exactly the skills, that make you win in Zeepkist on your own tracks x3
Do more like this, maybe next time with a different type of display, that´s a tiny bit more humane to read (for example still use red, but different tones of red, so that there´s a slightly better chance to follow the wiring) and with a more beautiful map, that distracts people from what they´ve remembered (Or make them drive the wiring itself as an on-pipe-maze with boosters and slowsters, that get out, when certain gates are triggered).
The reason I started watching Kan in the first place…. Breaking/testing the game. Love it.
OK, I am just at the start of the video, but all those wires are the same color, and they all cross over each other or merge or diverge, I have no idea.
It is better to explicit show what is happening at the junction by either an arc over the wire, or cut the line short on both sides with with white space in-between for crossover.
Then a dot at the junction can be used if they touch and share a signal.
Have been watching kAN's Zeepkist content for several weeks, and just realized, based on various language-nerdery, that "Zeepkist" is almost certainly just Dutch for "Soapbox".
As others are saying, there's an error in the diagram, the combo to this one is (top down) 1001111001 or 1001101001 or 011000110, not 0100101110, as you put in.
The diagram is literally indecipherable
not literally
@@vibaj16 He made a mistake so yes, literally indecipherable
@@Cherrypizzasquad You can still decipher it.
@@vibaj16 also you can’t because of the missing bridges/dots
@@Cherrypizzasquad Where lines cross, it's a bridge. Where there's a T junction, it's a dot. So yes, literally decipherable.
I dont think i could get this even if i just looked at the answer for 10 minutes
"The entire right side is irrelevant" is a nonsensical statement because the right side of the diagram is the only thing that gives information on the code...
You remind me of one of my university professor who expected us to solve things like this in a verbal exam with no paper under a minute.
I still hate that person.
Kan trying to figure up the balance between evil and just annoying
what would have been more diabolical is if after the combination, you had a trigger for hands up, so even if you had the combo correct, the only way to get through would be with hands up.
(And don't tell anyone hands need to be up) that would be chaotic evil.
It would be funny if some professor or teacher does an exam this way, definetly way more fun XD
If I'm interpreting the diagram correctly, the solution is incorrect. The second light being on indicates that all inputs to that AND are true. One of those inputs is ~6^~7, which implies that 6 and 7 must be opposite values. Kan's solution has them both as on. This isn't the only one, but is the most obvious mistake.
Also, using XOR in the middle for all paths makes it so there are at least two solutions to the logic diagram to get those outputs, each being an XOR of the other. I believe that the value of 5 doesn't matter as outlined in the logic either, which leaves 4 solutions (2 overall for XOR logic times 2 for different values of the #5 digit)
For completeness, I think the correct solutions should be:
0110000110
0110010110
1001111001
1001101001
yep
As a computer scientist, not an engineer, I *in theory* would have known everything I needed to solve the puzzle, but wouldn't have actually *worked* with such diagrams before. I wonder if I'd have been able to solve it in time!
I could likely have figured it out as well, given enough time. Not sure if 10 minutes or so would be enough, however.
Cool concept, but I feel like most people have liyerally zero idea how to go about solving logic like this IRL, so it's kinda unfair as a premise.
@@Altair1243WAR the bigger problem is that he made a mistake and none of the 4 solutions to the diagram are the solution he used
@@vibaj16 Yes, that's exactly what I've found out. It's a real shame that kAN didn't check his work properly and thus ended up uploading a map that can't be solved :/
@@vibaj16 Yep. kAN is a dingus.
I have made an entire computer using logic gates with logisim so I know how logic gates work but the mess of wire is impossible for me to read.
Very nice to show a solution next to the puzzle
I'm an engineer, and thankfully I haven't had to do a logic diagram since 2005.
Oh man, I actually solved the puzzle! I had the right polarities for everything but not which was on and off, lol. Would have taken two tries.
I understood the diagram until Kan explained it, I then had no idea if I was correct
Love a map where you do nothing for 10 minutes lol.
I love that you built it in scrap mechanic too.. we once had a lap couse in uni where we had to do logic gate stuff, we tested that in scrap mechanic as well
as someone who's an electrician, that's illegible. you're supposed to do like little humps when wires cross each others.
My 13yr old son is spend his weekend solving this. I had to go over some of the logic explinations but the fact he is enjoying th puzzle while watching one our favourite youtuber is great.
Not indicating branching connections with dots is evil nightmare fuel
How about A Zeepkist! Map where you build an elaborate map of hidden paths that are visible from above using a Paraglider. however using the Paraglider makes completing the map impossible.
So you have to run the map as a Soapbox car, but the Glider gives you the correct path.
And maybe a secret message to the players?
I think you could do something really cool like your Logic Circuit track, but visible only from above with a Paraglider.
This is even worse than Dapper's hidden cheeses.
Kan, you should learn how to make an LFSR (linear feedback shift register) using logic resources, so that you can generate pseudorandom bits to *really* confuse people.
Thanks for the flashback to college, going to have nightmares about logic diagrams tonight.
feels like equation 8 equation with 10 unknowns where some are prob parameters
You say the puzzle is simple, but it looks pretty (NP) hard to me
It's a simple puzzle, but the diagram is not only bad, it's also wrong :P
Just use the universal key, a 12 gauge!
Those logic gates present multiple solutions to your puzzle. 4 to be exact when I have Logisim analyze it. Are you sure that your actual implementation only has one solution?
pretty cool, I made a hide and seek map like a year ago based on among us original map, and added in a combo lock of my own there as the op spot (:
The worst part is this runs the risk of having multiple solutions, and while you're solving it there's an exponential number of combinations you have to reconcile.
For the NAND gates, there's 7 possible combinations of inputs to produce a true, and 1 for false. Then you get to the XOR gates, and there's 2 combinations for each output of each gate. Then there's the NOT gates, which, have the relationship that one wire is the inverse of another wire, which then you have to basically brute force all the combinations of stuff going into the XOR gates by checking if the NOT gate relationships hold. Even an "optimized" brute force would be too slow with the amount of GARBAGE.
It's kind of like a hash function or one of those one-way math functions that are easy to do one way, but incredibly difficult to do in reverse. And there's hash collisions.
this is such a great puzzle to play with and perhaps you found a way to not get cheated
And here I was wanting to learn logic but it seems way to complicated for me to understand. I am severely damaged currently
Kan you broke my brain watching this
-mj
The code is workable, but the post XOR wires are a crime.
I do computer science a level and I noped out of this
This comment is a spleef idea! The spud guns are 3 long but having them 2 wide would solve the missing connection point problem, so you wouldn't have to exit your vehicle and shoot at them with a handheld spudgun
Man I’m doing logic gates in my mechatronics class rn and I don’t think I could solve this in 10 minutes
make a zeepkist map where the players have to drive over switches to keep a giant nuclear reactor in the middle of the track, you have to watch the temp meter to make sure its not getting too hot, and also drive over the control rod switches to regulate the temp
My brain still hurts
It took me almost an hour to make and solve in Google sheets, it was pain, and still did it wrong
you can put a circle where cable connect, so no 3d wierd thing like you said in the end
I need a way more dumbed down version of this track kinda as a Kan's version of intro to logic
@@AaelmfaoBDplays he's done some intro to logic videos in Scrap Mechanic.
I need a correct schematic, not the one kAN made because it's not correct at all.
You are my top creator on RUclips Recap. 🎉
build a track where you drive against a wall if you are over a certain speed limit
dawg you need a sat solver for this one
TBH, this is everything I'm *NOT* looking for in a game like Zeepkist.
I work with such gate diagrams weekly and if one of my colleagues gave me this diagram I would straight ask them if they are joking and laugh in their face regardless. Without any bridges/dots for the signal connections (wires) this may be the worst diagram I have ever frikandel seen.
It is very hard to follow when all the wired are on top of eachother at the end there
There is the one line that goes from the combination of 8 and 9 and it goes all the way up to the top green light and i can't tell which lines connect to it and which don't
All Kan had to do to win a round of Zeepkist was to think like an engineer!
Except he also failed at making a correct code lol
@ I went and read a few comments and saw other people saying the diagram was incorrect! That somehow makes this video even better seeing as how Kan only barely won! 🤣
Interesting you just take one side and flip it upside down. If you could get the first number and know that 9 is the complete reset It's relatively easy.
This is all logical.
Kan! You are such a nerd! I love it! Unique! Us nerds rule!
I simulated your circuit in Every Circuit, but I can't get it working.
Hell of a job debugging it on a tiny phone screen if I got all the connections right, or if it just can't use this correctly. Probably the latter.
Lets make it 100X as large.
As an auto mechanic who reads auto wiring diagrams daily for over 10 years i’m hella confused with these xor etc gates, i don’t recognize anything other than diodes here 😂 if it wasn’t for your explanation, i’d still be confused lol