WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CARNIVORE GOES VEGAN? - Dr. Westman Reacts
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- Опубликовано: 31 авг 2023
- What happens when a vegan and a carnivore swap diets for 28 days? Is it a recipe for disaster or a surprising success story? If you've ever wondered about the outcome when dietary worlds collide, you're in for a fascinating exploration. Join Dr. Westman as he dives into this diet experiment, shedding light on the impact it has on health, weight, and overall well-being.
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Dr. Eric Westman, Associate Professor of Medicine at Duke. He is Board Certified in Obesity Medicine & Internal Medicine, & founded the Duke Keto Medicine Clinic. He is a Fellow in The Obesity Society. He is the author of The New Atkins for a New You, Cholesterol Clarity, and Keto Clarity, and End Your Carb Confusion & co-founder of Adapt Your Life.
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My BS went through the roof on a vegan WOE. I also gained weight and I became pre diabetic. I ate only really high quality organic foods and had a vegan dietitian guide me. I didn’t get that hungry but after 5 years I progressively got worse. Now I’m insulin resistant and my a1c is 6.5. My Dr. put me on a low carb diet and after several months everything is reversing. I sleep better now, too.
Yeah, because the Vegan diet is BS.
Curious, when your Dr. told you to go on a low carb diet, how much of it was red meat? Or did they tell you to stay with fish and chicken and turkey? I believe a lot of doctors have been "taught" and conditioned to avoid red meats.
@@1BethMcBethred meat triggers cancer and it's hard on the liver.
@ursulasmith6402 Thanks but I'm waiting for her to respond on what her doctor said to HER. Thanks for your reply though.
I never tested but I'm quite sure I was the same after 5 years vegan. Had all the symptoms, felt really awful. Eating mostly meat and all issues gone.
I have been trying to eat low carb for two years. I have lost 50lbs. I was so surprised this week when I ordered a hameburger this week with a bun and could not eat it. I realized I just did not want it even though I thought I did. I just ate the meat. Thank you.
So funny, isn't it?!
I lost 50lbs in 3 months on the ketovore diet.
When we went to a steak house with friends, we watched them eat the bread and I had this very odd thought of it being peasant food. I don’t know why that thought came up but I was not interested in it at all (when before I’d be happy to finish off the bread) but I was interested in the butter! Lol.
@@grittygirlgraphics8633 exactly. ..& it is how the poor fill their bellies & have historically going back to ancient Egyptians. It's why bread is now fortified with nutrients.)It's my understanding that the origin of the xpression, "Let them eat cake," said by the Queen of France (TY Herbert👸) when she was told her people were starving refers to exactly that fact.
@@mariad1151Queen of France.
I eat like a carnivore. What I choose to put in my mouth does not require you to approve or comply with my choices. Eat the food that makes the most sense to you is my suggestion. Feeling better makes sense to me. By better I mean more energetic, healthier, and mindful. Carry on and and aim at living your best.
Thank you! I had to laugh when the vegan was missing his sugar rush.
The vegan who started eating meat for 28 days never said that he ate LOW carb. He may have eaten fewer carbs along with adding meat. But the big issues is not the adding meat but the dropping of carbs. As we don't know any reason to think he ate real low carb, then he wouldn't have seen the benefits that the rest of us see on low carb or keto. As Dr. Westman said, it matters whether there was anyone there giving successful advice. So the "test" shows very little.
This is plant based news (biased) reporting of longer 3 hour podcast. Turns out his macros by the end were like 300kcal of carbs a day because he admitted he fell off the wagon 2 weeks in and started eating more plants because he wanted to quit. carnivore stayed strong :P
completely throws off the test because he fed himself like a fat burner but never let himself adapt. Carnivore had satiety issues because of the carbs and system binge eating and ate almost 3,000kcal a day
It is just silly to think it is right to just cold turkey from one way of eating to the opposite without a transition period of at least a month. We did not see what they were eating, how much, or when they ate. We saw NOTHING. There should have been different blood tests and many to compare the process from start to finish.
If you eat vegan claiming no animals killed you would be a poor candidate for this experiment unless you told him what really happens when you monocrop a large area😢.
Cutting the carbs is the key to health improvements. Eating meat with lots of carb is just the SAD.
doesn't SAD include things like bread and oils and packaged processed type stuff with soy etc ?@@Billy97ify
That vegan needed to give it longer than 2 weeks in…
I was very heavy plant based for many years… just because I thought veggies, nuts, seeds,and fruit were better and healthier. I ate the “healthier” grains, all the “super foods” and used coconut oil and evoo exclusively. I never ate much beans… they never agreed with my gut. Lots of green smoothies and homemade granola.
My gut always felt bloated. I had heartburn nightly… even when I ate my last meal (usually salad with all the veggies) by 4 pm. I thought having 3 bm per day to be a badge of healthy gut. I had many aches and pains especially my knees. Acid reflux more and more often on top of the heartburn. Never knew about or considered eating read meat on a daily basis as I rarely ate it before.
Now I eat a animal based diet and no grains, sugars, very rarely veggies or fruit and use butter and animal fat exclusively… never have heartburn or acid reflux… aches and pains diminished to disappeared… feel much better…. No carb addiction or the shakes from lack of sugar/carbs for fuel.. just steady energy. It is my body’s preferred diet. Maybe some people are better on veggies… idk. To each their own.
I did have some significant changes after 6 months, however, dropping my A1C from 10.1 to 5.2 took 2.5 years. I also lost 20 lbs fairly quickly but lost 50 lbs overall after 3 years. I had my joint pain disappear after a month & went from a waist of 38 to 32 after 3 years.
What diet are you eating?
tough to know what you were eating.. Vegan? low carb keto? carnivore? Paleo??
@@jakehayes1345 Keto, but I think I was likely quite insulin resistant given the length of time to change my blood parameters
@@eringo-bragh4243 Thanks for clarifying..Great work! wow... you really turned it around. Takes commitment and hard work.. glad you kept at it.
well worth it ....
Congrats. You are doing so well. Keep at it.
This is such a biased test. Having been all plant based, and now carnivore, I could sit down and show him my labs and my health problems as plant based versus now. There is no comparison. For me, veganism was the worst diet for my health.
Absolutely agree with you. Veganism almost cost me my life.
this is the Plant Based News reporting of a longer 3 hour podcast, Joe complained about energy issues and having to nap in the middle of work. Chase went back and realized he might be missing key macronutrient and vegan diets might not be so simple (lucky him. he got another 5 years worth of animal nutrients). He also says nearly 100g if carbs from withdrawal.... each day
@@Mallchad I went through carb and sugar withdrawal in the first month. Also, body dumps electrolytes with water retention and must be supplemented during the transition. Also dumped a lot of stored oxalates which was alleviated with potassium citrate. I guess if you do not know that your body has to go through a transition from plant toxins and carb addiction, then you won't like it. But at the end of that phase, you do feel like a younger, stronger, healthy person again.
@@catcan221 I accidently keep going through fat adaptation because I keep getting issues with feeding myself the diet I wanted (which is always meat heavy lmao even as a kid)
It was pretty miserable and I ended up caving and trying keto because I felt like I was fighting my body at meal times and interrupting glucose making and fat metabolism all the time, even though I thought keto was bad. how wrong I was...
The transition didn't really need to be as harsh as what we experienced. Its mainly just electrolytes and lack of dietary fat. I've watched people I personally know go keto cold turkey and acted like they didn't completely just upend their metabolism
Vegan and other non meat foods are very forgiving when you are young. When you start aging your body becomes fed up with that kind of food and gives up and then you either become fat or unhealthy skinny with many diseases that pop up. I was Keto for five years which was good. Carnivore up's the game and allows you to heal faster and better without all the cravings or fake hunger.
Years ago I went vegan for a year, testing my blood before and after. At the end of the year I had high blood calcium. I had to see an endocrinologist. One of my parathyroid glands stopped working. I went carnivore 1/1/23 for 45 days, then went Keto. I have lost 50 lbs. I saw my endocrinologist the other day, and I have normal A1C, my blood pressure was 101/66, and instead of going back in 6 months the doc said come back in 9 months. Unfortunately, I can't fix the parathyroid gland, but nothing has gotten worse.
Your results sound similar to mine when I went from a high carb low fat diet to keto. Everything for me got better including my mental health which is hard to quantify but I knew there was a change.
That’s so interesting cz I went plant based back in 2018 I thought it was so healthy, but also had to see a endocrinologist for high calcium and high PTH. It corrected itself when I went back to eating meat. I started having some type of episodes like seizures that scared me so I started adding back some meat protein. My calcium is now in the high normal area and no more episodes at all.
I’m 74 years old. I have been a Carnivore for over four years. I keep getting better and better health. Just stay on it. You will see more and more results. Good luck.
I do Mediterranean diet and I have a 5.2 A1C score. Feel much better than keto or vegan.
@@remogatron1010 then stick to it. The diffence is carnivores say to do what makes you healthier where as the vegans say their way is the only way and you shouldn't eat animals products because it could kill you.
So, Chase's macro screenshot at 11:16 shows 334 calories per day in carbohydrates, which is what, like 90-100 carbs? Was he even in ketosis?
I'd be quicker to assume his lack of energy may have had more to do with his body still chasing those 90 carbs a day as a primary fuel source rather than going after all the fat he was eating instead.
I do agree that any tests of this kind should be for at least 3-6 months. It can take 1-2 months to really acclimate to such a huge dietary change. The blood tests could be done each month to compare.
At the end of the day though, I guess what really matters is everyone involved is "healthy" on whichever diet they choose to adhere to. I can almost guarantee a vegan is going to really struggle maintaining muscle mass in the long run compared to someone on a high protein, high fat diet though. I'd imagine vegans have to eat a lot of calories a day to get the protein required and would need to be very active individuals not to gain weight in the process.
I think 1-2 months is still low. While you'll see results in that time my energy didn't pick up until around month 4. I slept a LOT prior to that, now i'm around 5-6 hours a night and I'm feeling fine. I bet people that have insulin issues will take longer to adjust, but that's just an educated guess.
looking for a bit of advice hear myself, im 8 weeks into carnivore and platoed at 100kg after loosing 11kg, ive been stuck for a week and cant seem to shift it no matter what i eat or how much i exercise (walking at least a mile a day) plus i work in the steel industry with a lot of manual work, any ideas would be apresiated thanks.
@@jaimes350you might be gaining muscles while still loosing fat. I don’t like to use the scale and instead use a measuring tape. Check your waist, arms and legs. Whenever I feel like I hit a plateau I do a 72 hour water fast. That tend to get things rolling again.
@@nameofthegame9664 thanks for the reply, i have thought about the muscle gain tough to me it does not appear that i have gained any bulk in that area, i have tried 24 hr fasts but hey appeared to have the opposit effect on me for some reason. i think i just have a realy messedup metabilism still.
@@nameofthegame9664this. were probably shouldn't be looking at weight so closely we can put on a lot of muscle whilst burning fat. Also He's going *too fast* it takes the body time to get fat into a place it's happy to burn for every. also you need intramuscular fat to improve your muscle performance so it throws things off
There's some research that suggests you might burn fat faster if you eat _more_ fat whilst exercising. it might be a direct eating -> fat burning effect. Please don't try to eat the fat through meat it's protein heavy and will fill you up too easily
4 weeks is not enough to find out one way or another, because it will take a lot longer to adapt your microbiome... took me 3 month.
besides, if you have type 2 diabetes, there is only one way to reverse this... KETO or hard core carnivore.
If you have metabolic illness, you will see the benefits of a zero carb diet virtually immediately, like lower blood pressure without medication and lower blood sugar (A1C), but I am not kidding myself, fully reversing type 2 diabetes may take month or years.
I am 3 month carnivore and insist, that this was the BEST decision of my life. I am almost 70 years old and the other day I started running again. I feel like I I am 30 years younger.
Hmmm...no amount of money would convince me to partake in such a folly experiment.
Hi Eric, doing a study on two heathy youngsters is stupid. how many youtube videos do we see about older sick vegans compared to sick carnivores, that would be interesting .Cant find one on a sick carnivore.
@@user-ey4fl8zg6nMost of the carnivore influncers struggle to breath just by talking .
The also have that 🍅face Dr 🍇 the 🥩 of 🍅.
Dr Eric Westman explains it so well.Thank you.❤
😂😂
Interesting. The carnivore channels have a HUGE number of vegans who've moved to carnivore. Permanently
A few carnivores have gone vegan I hear. most of them appear to be yoyo dieters that can't hold any diet
The rest is just straight plant-based propaganda which is super weird.
Many more people are "super upset" they fell for plants and carbs being good for you though. and those people have MD licences
Yep I was one of them! Was just getting sicker and sicker on the whole foods plant based diet I’d been told would heal my autoimmune rheumatoid arthritis but was completely symptom free on carnivore diet within the first week!
@@lisawanderess That's because your BMR increased to be able to process fats and proteins for energy/ATP with high cortisol, adrenaline and dopamine which have analgesic effects just like being on cocaine, meth or THC. The physiology is the same when bypassing carbs because it takes more to break protein and fats down for energy/ATP and process their acid byproducts and still maintain structural and hormonal integrity.
@asherasator and is there anything wrong with that? My blood inflammation markers are lower now than they were on biologic immunosuppresive medication. Is that analgesic effects too?
@lisawanderess ignore it, it's just physiological gobbledegook
"Internet keto". Perfect description. I'll be using this term!
Hey, if poor, it works far better than staying obesely/diabetically HighCarb! And finding an effective Keto diet coach is not an easy task.
I’ve succeeded by looking for help from multiple science study-focused people along with sister-travelers who have both already succeeded and are inspired chefs!
(I’ve even been carefully cutting back on my decades-long seizure meds, though I cannot afford either a glucose or ketone monitor.)
It looked like the vegan had almost 100 carbs while carnivore, based on the macro chart they showed
Wait... the guy on "carnivore" ate 83.5g of carbs a day? That would be enough to prevent ketosis, no wonder he must have been feeling like garbage and always desperate for carbs!
And what did he do, chug milk all the time or ate only scallops?
And only 58% of his calories came from fat instead of the normal 80% or 85%?
Something is very, very wrong here. Either the researchers were unfathomably incompetent, or this "experiment" specifically designed to make carnivore look bad. And honestly at this point I'm not even sure which is the most likely.
No supervision, no control over anything - such a great test!
Thank you for another balanced and thoughtful review, Doc W! 💪❤️🙏
Every study I've seen on LDL shows that low LDL is bad for longevity, so it's weird to me how often vegans think levels WELL below 100 are good
EXACTLY!
There are conditions which cause ldl to go low. It is the condition that's bad for mortality, not the low LDL. There's never been any evidence that reducing ldl through lifestyle or medication has bad health outcomes. It's the exact opposite. There are similar U shaped curves for blood sugar, blood pressure, BMI, and most other parameters. The vast majority of people have problems with all of those being too high, not too low.
@@jeffreyjohnson7359 Please check out the new heartscan study being done on LMHR (Lean Mass Hyper Responders) a very specific EXTREMELY HIGH LDL, accompanied by very high HDL/very low TG ketovarian subset who’ve maintained long-term (2+ years) metabolic ketogenisis with apparently very good heart outcomes. It is not quite finished, much less repeated, but is already extremely promising❤️💪
(This is only a 1-year/2-scan study, so all-cause longevity cannot yet be shown.)
The majority of ketovarians do see their LDL ultimately decrease (after weightloss), but not for us LMHRs? Also, this is a bit misnamed, as even current low exercise & still barely obese like me can exhibit this particular cholesterol pattern after massive weightloss!
So the U on LDL may not be at all true for everyone?
@@jeffreyjohnson7359 actually, we do have evidence that medication reduces the risk of CVD, but increases risks of other diseases (which is why the mortality benefit is zero on average, even with long term use)
The other U-shape curves you bring up clearly have negative effects on the low range, so aren't comparable to your claims on LDL, but rather support my assertion.
All the studies are associative and poorly controlled. Take them with a grind of salt, either way. It varies so much with other health problems . People with chronic disease will have trouble with everything.
I lost 50lbs in only 3 months on the ketovore diet!
Me too. I also got my sense of smell back after about 50 years of not realizing I am not smelling things like when I was younger. I thought the smells were just gone but they are still there.
I'm low carb and love it. I just don't understand why vegans have to push everyone to eat like they do. To each his own. In other words mind your own business! I like meat!
It's because it's religious.
Because veganism is for the animals so everybody else is against you to reach your goal
if you misunderstand how nature and nutrient cycles work then you look to making animals obsolete instead of allowing them to dominate the world and taking the odd one for food
Same here … I’m carnivore, but I do not walk around trying to convince people about it
Because vegans are cultists and are fully programmed to force their Marxist doctrine in all ways and at all times. They are also globalists who firmly believe that THEIR way is the only way.
If we don’t defeat them, they WILL force it.
Bugs, processed grains and seed oils will be all you have!
Vegans haven't exactly cornered the market on dogma - there are plenty of zealots to go around on both sides.
Plus, there are many low-carb vegans who are smart enough to avoid malnutrition.
I like the idea of this subject of switching diets, but I feel it needs more controlled rules.
Testosterone went up on carnivore. Insulin was towards the very low side (hypo) and carnivore brought him towards a more “average” level of low. The spin on this is pretty interesting.
I find my energy is more consistent on keto. I tell people to look at it like gasoline verses diesel. One's great at burst the other at stamina 😁 I like studies like this even with there problems. It’s great to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.
I think most people on keto or carnivore diets now have walked in other shoes in their past and made the switch because healthwise it wasn't working. I did, and what I found out now 18 months later was I feel much better, on a low carb higher fat diet and lost weight. Mental health and mental focus improved. I'll never go back.
@@jimrutherford2773 definitely agree, I've been on keto since 2018 and never looked back. I will always follow some sort of low carb diet from now on.
Coal vs natural gas may be a better anology. Ketones burn clean and are stable energy while coal burns out and has combustion by products.
@@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline You are 100% wrong and the reality of actuality is the opposite when considering what it takes and how to get ketones as main fuel. Fatty acids don't oxidize into ketones for main energy at the same BMR rate as Glucose because of size. ATP: C10 H16 N5 O13 P3. Glucose: C6 H12 O6. Ketones: BHB: C4 H8 O3, Acetoacetic acid: C4 H6 O3, that requires higher metabolic processes and more ketones creating the same amount of ATP and other functions that Glucose directly does. Same with Protein, the only difference between Carbs and Proteins is Nitrogen that make it an Amino Acid. Oxidizing Proteins solely as a main fuel again takes more energy than Glucose and produces Uric Acid byproducts that the body and blood also have to deal with to prevent acidemia then dumps acid into the cells which after awhile can lead to cellular acidosis, so a higher revved up BMR is required. The same as oxidizing Fats as a main fuel, which after awhile can lead to ketoacidosis, both processes as a main fuel make the body do extra work because of acidic byproduct levels, which of course requires more energy to maintain than oxidizing Glucose. So that carousel merry-go-round has to be fine tuned. High endurance athletes in a constant revved up state can deal and add to BMR and hopefully burn the byproducts. But an average schmo will eventually have negative energy effects because of the energy up keep requirements of burning and clean up of byproducts from 2nd and 3rd order energy/ATP production. Fats are nothing more than concentrated Carbs with short and long chain bonds in various ways that takes longer to breakdown into Sugars/ketones. So ketosis is a long round about way of reproducing Sugars from Fats. Fructose is a keto. So regardless which Sugar burn choice for ATP people wanna use as energy: (1) Direct simple Sugars into Glucose, (2) Turn Protein into Glucose, or (3) Turn Fats back into smaller Sugars, Glucose metabolically is the easiest and cleanest purely because of size. The simplest, easiest and most efficient way to make ATP: C10 H16 N5 O13 P3 from diet is Carbs and Proteins, without the body pulling from somewhere else to fill the gaps, which then require the gaps pulled from to be filled from somewhere else creating unnecessary work and supplementation which all requires energy and decreases mass, as the body is eating itself until some type of equilibrium is met with food intake. Protein's job is for structural integrity, Fats are for cellular and hormonal integrity. See the ATP high Nitrogen requirement? Without carbs Protein oxidation of Nitrogen has to do double duty as Amino Acid for structural and enzymic processes and go into being fuel for ATP, because if Proteins are in the diet they'll burn into Glucose before Fat, so that's not really metabolic ketosis which is a starvation mode or fasting process. Carb's higher Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen than ketones gets to directly become ATP much easier.
I think these videos are so important. We (those who are interested in learning about health) are finally understanding how the human body works and makes us well. Thanks Doc for being an invaluable resources for the interested !
This is awesome. I was an 8 year vegan to carnivore!
was that freely impression lol :D ;) :D 25:14
Well as I sat watching this cray talk salivating with my beef shank and some butter sauce. Man that was good 👍!
When I started the carnivore diet after being vegan/vegetarian for 25 years it took about three months before I noticed any positive changes.
I tried it for 7 months in 1993. It was the worst I ever felt in my life.
TRIED WHAT?
I assume you mean tried vegan? (As carnivore wouldn't have that effect).
@@Doyle-nu5el they because a vegan carnivor, a veganivor.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed is king.
I did vegan for 6 months, I liked the food, I lost about 3 pounds, remained metabolically unhealthy, A1C increased from 9.6 to 11.9. Now keto, down 40 pounds, A1C is finally decreasing current 8.2. I realize i need to continue and I intend to.
And how do we know that the test results are real?
I went from vegan to carnivore. July 1st. Feeling better. I'm off blood pressure medicine & lipitor. My A1C has lowered; I refused metformin. I'm sleeping better, I'm not hungry between meals, I'm not craving sugar. I'm not out there killing animals myself... not sure I can do that. I've just never HAD to, but I think I need to learn & see how I feel about it. I think ALL people should learn to become self-sufficient in that way; any way they choose to eat. I also go by levitical law & do not eat pork or shellfish; I eat the cleaner fish that swim midstream that have scales. (The shellfish and crustaceans are the bottom dwellers /water cleaners, so they get the Mercury & toxic substances.)
I am on day 9 carnivore. I feel unwell, look unwell, feel stress. Overwhelm and am incredibly depressed. I have to push through or I will be 200lbs before I know it.
Thank you again.
It is common is ergo normal is so abused.
The range of normal is just that. It is not better to be low or high normal. Yet we have this problem over and over again… ergo it is common.
I’m on my 11th month of Ketovore. in 2022 my Cholesterol went from 227 to 218.....HdLfrom 68 to 75....LDL from 145 to 126 BUT my triglycerides went from 72 to 85 and CRP from .01 to .04. I did not expect that and concerned about it. I don’t know what to do. I also think I have gained a small amount of visceral fat. My fasting insulin was 3 in 2022 and i am going to get it again soon . ???
Thank you Dr., I wish someone would had told me this, because today after 23 days in Carnivores Diet have no ENERGY, ..
.
The vast majority of people could not automatically know how to eat a healthy vegan diet. I had problems with this, and many others I know have had problems. Also, I gained 18lb on a vegan diet, so to call vegan diets healthy as a blanket statement is laghble
Correct you are! A vast majority of ultra processed foods are vegan.
But it is important to keep in mind that veganism is a philosophy, not a dietary principle.
Always add some potassium when you add salt on low-carb diets.
depends on the foods you eat, most foods have potassium already
@@defeqel6537 some people have such a strong diuretic effect when they first start keto they need to supplement.
@@sylviaking8866*all people
all your electrolytes go out of whack on the beginning, sodium and magnesium are particularly bad
@@Mallchad how long does it take for them to get their electrolytes two balance back out
Yes that is happening to me I feel so weak my BP went so high, I'm scared is my 23rd doing carnivore.
-Hello. if possible, i have a question.
- my sister has type 2 diabetes and cirrhosis of the liver, she also has some kidney problems.
- when she eats mostly vegetarian + sunflower oil (it's her general diet) = sometimes her blood sugar rises even above 300.
but when she eats mostly fat and protein and only a little vegetables/bread = her blood sugar is in the 100/140 range.
- I would be extremely grateful if you could clarify this topic for my sister.
- you have an excellent show.
- all esteem and respect.
I only subscribed to a few, mostly food diets and auto/classic autos. I had to add Dr Eric. I love a real thinker who's qualified to unravel these videos he reviews. I have learned so much about food and effect on the body. 🤩
Very helpful. In particular, that both ultra low carb and ultra low fat diets improve (i.e reduces) insulin resistance maybe a new idea to many. But for metabolically impaired individuals, as I am, it has to be ultra-low. The LdL going up after having other markers improve from following your advice has been a tough battle to fight with two doctors since 4/22. I had to trade off A1C (from 5.9 to 6.5) with the third primary care physician to bring LdL down. I'm planning to give Ultra low fat a try over the next 80-100 days. Early indication of heart muscles not be able to cope (heart loves the fat) worries me though.
Please be very carefull
Please report back with your results and experience. Good luck.
Low carb can actually make insulin resistance slightly worse when you get to the lower end. but this really might just be the cells in your body having a lower demand for glucose.
I wouldn't really recommend an ultra low fat diet, but really I just wanted to say day only or fasting can help repair heart tissue.. The body needs a pretty fair balance of saturated and unsaturated fat also
I do not know how old you are, but LDL is protective as we age, at least in women. This was shown in the long term nurses study.
Have you researched LDL particle size tests?
I think you may need to ask for that specifically, but if recall correctly, having high LDL may not be a big deal in and of itself. If you're worried about your heart and arteries, you could also have a CAC test done.
Anecdotally speaking, it seems like most people on keto diets have larger LDL particles (which is good) that make up the majority of that reading. CAC tests usually come back cleaner or pristine. Of course, this is all stuff I've read in blogs or watched on RUclips. There's not much "official" testing on this, which is why most GPs will just fall back on whatever dietary training they got in med school and the umpteen studies showing that LDL is "bad".
At this point, I'm fairly confident I've done more investigation on this topic than most MDs out there, which is fairly alarming since diet impacts overall health more than anything else. The majority of the doctors are just Big Pharma pez dispensers imo (no offense to any doctors reading this).
Hi Dr Westman or anyone reading this that may know. I'm currently in my BSN program writing a paper to support my topic that low carb diets can be used to put T2DM into remission however two of my 4 papers needs to have an RN as an author so I was wondering if you were aware of any of articles that have nurses who are part of them. I've already picked 4 articles to support but they don't have RNs. I guess I'll take the hit if I can't find any, just asking around now, thanks in adv!
The woman who worked with Dr Atkins is an RN. I believe she has published research. I think her first name is Jackie but I’m sure someone else on here can chime in with other information.
It took me a long time to add salt. I’m still having a hard time adding salt. I’m a heart patient, and was told to limit salt in my diet. I should have 2500, but I know I took a lot less than that. I’m 76 female. I now feel much better adding more salt, but it’s been hard.
I think what I learned most from this, is that if you're already reasonably healthy and you're paying attention to your diet, whatever that is, you'll be fine.
So it sounds like this was not a very well designed informal experiment.
For the audience members who are on low-carb heavy-meat diet, I am genuinely interested in their glucose-insulin tolerance tests.
I think it is generally accepted, by both camps, that chronic hyperglycemia and insulin resistance are detrimental to long term health.
I go by what the Secretary of Health recommends, she/he/it looks fit and healthy...😅
You forgot they!
You should always listen to the medical and food industries and then do exactly the opposite!
He def looks errrrr neither fit nor mentally well
Why they did not start from dexa scan? I bet the vegan guy would be at the lower edge and carnivore would show the good bone density and non-marbled lean mass with minimal visceral fat. Done. No need even to try any other diets.
Has Westman ever commented on what happened to his co-author, of Keto Clarity, Jimmy Moore?
Ate 60/30/10 Paleo primarily meat, fish, eggs snd low glycemic vegetables and fruit lost 40 lbs reversed pre diabetes, high blood pressure, etc 1.75 years later my weight started to slowly creep back up so i changed it up 30/40/30 fat/pro/carb refuced to leaner cuts of meat, added 3 raw eggs daily, fish 3 days a week and reintroduced root vegetables and also added fruit after exercise and a few months later my weight has slowly went down again, blood sugar is stable, good blood pressure. Our body is smart snd will compensate for changes especially if you reduce your calories to much and continue to pound fat.
I believe it was in a Dr. Berg video where it was said not to eat raw eggs, you absorb more nutrients from a cooked egg. (I could be wrong as to which doctor said this)
@@BunE22 its my daily electrolyte drink qt water, 2 oz pickle juice, 3 raw eggs, magnesium, micro dose of zinc and kelp, 1/4 lemon and lime, fresh ginger 1/2 pack true limeaide. I eat a piece of fish and go to the gym an hour later. Trying to get a lot of natural high protein and drinking the raw eggs is simple and far more nutricious than protein powder. All these self appointed experts have literally no formal nutrition background or even exercise.
@GregariousAntithesis "You may be surprised to learn that the digestibility and absorption of egg protein is much greater in cooked eggs. One study, published in The Journal of Nutrition, found that the availability of egg protein is 91% with cooked eggs and only 50% with raw eggs. That means a raw egg would only provide 3 grams of digestible protein. Compared to eating a whole cooked egg, which contains almost 6 grams of protein.
The higher digestibility of protein in cooked eggs is likely due to structural changes caused by cooking. Another reason for the difference in digestibility may be Trypsin Inhibitors. Trypsin is an enzyme that breaks down proteins and may be blocked by enzymes in raw eggs. Heat will destroy some of the functional properties of protein, such as inhibiting trypsin, so that the protein is more readily digested."
You can do what you want, but if you're consuming eggs for protein, then you're getting half the protein by eating them raw.
@@BunE22 how exactly do you think they can prove such proposition? How exactly can you test for more protein in a cooked egg?
@@BunE22 The study
In this randomized controlled study, 45 healthy men (average age of 24) performed a single session of resistance training and immediately afterwards ate one of three different breakfasts: 5 raw eggs (30 grams of protein and 23 grams of of fat), 5 cooked (boiled) eggs (30 grams of protein and 23 grams of fat), or a control breakfast consisting of a croissant, butter, and orange juice (5 grams of protein, 20 grams of fat, 47 grams of carbohydrates).
Blood samples were collected from the participants at baseline (before breakfast) and every 15 minutes after breakfast for 5 hours. A leg muscle biopsy was performed at baseline, 2 hours after breakfast, and 5 hours after breakfast.
The primary study outcomes were AA concentrations and MPS rate. The secondary outcomes included glucose and insulin levels.
The results
Total AA, essential amino acids (EAA), leucine, and branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) were elevated after the consumption of raw and cooked eggs, whereas nonessential amino acids (NEAA) were lowered.
Eating cooked eggs led to higher levels of total AA, EAA, leucine, BCAA, and NEAA compared to eating raw eggs.
MPS was increased in all groups but was approximately 20% higher after eating raw and cooked eggs than after the control breakfast - with no differences in MPS between raw and cooked eggs.
Insulin and glucose levels were increased following the control breakfast but not after consuming raw or cooked eggs.
Note
Because this was an acute (short-term) study, we don’t know how the differences in amino acid concentrations between the raw egg and cooked egg group might translate into long-term muscle gains. However, the lack of a difference in the rate of muscle protein synthesis between the raw and cooked egg groups suggests that the benefits persist no matter the preferred method of egg preparation.
The vegan was eating an avg 80g of carbs per day, that's not Carnivore, or low carb! That means some days he was eating 160+g, other days he was eating 30g, etc. He probably was almost never in ketosis, and obviously he never really switched his metabolism over to primarily fat burning.
I can relate to him missing his sugar rush every day. I too was accustomed to the gunshot like burst of energy when you crush a huge bowl of cinnamon toast crunch and a coffee with 3 sugar in it every day for breakfast for 30 years to start your day lol. Without that massive GO signal, you don't get much work done in the beginning. But once you get accustomed to the constant energy and lack of rollercoaster-ride like mood swings every time you miss your hourly snacking window by 5 minutes, it is definitely a net positive!
about 11:26 minutes into the video, the gentleman showed us Chase's Carnivore Macro and the 1st thing I said to myself was "He is not on a Carnivore Diet" Carnivore is a very strict about getting as close to zero carbs at possible. This gentleman's diet had 12% carbs. That should have been 0-2%. It is possible this is why he was having issues. You need to commit all the way. I know, easier said than done. But if you are going to make a video to try and show what happens when going from one diet to another, they actually have to follow the diet they say they are doing :)
Dr. W is so nice to these jokers... just ask Comedian Keven Hart how his diet is related to his recent injuries... we learn the hard way, sadly
Dr Westman, you should create a reaction video on Dr John McDougall. As we know, he was Atkin’s greatest rival.
I have only eaten one higher carb day in over 2 years of omnivore Keto/IF, but that next day (only around the same 83g of carbs this vegan still ate while claiming carnivore???) my joints were all screaming with the high glucose/insulin INFLAMMATION!
Won’t repeat that torture.
This vegan did not reach ketosis, so utterly failed to compare results of carnivore!!!
Carnivore is ketogenic without any plants.
I did the starch solution which is a vegan diet for about half a year. I lost 44 pounds but it caused such agonizing joint pain I had to stop. I've gained all that weight back and I've been carnivore for several months. Joint pain is gone but I haven't lost an ounce of body fat.
I find it odd that you haven't lost anything. Are your clothes looser? Cutting carbs lowers inflammation, which is why your joints feel better. Maybe you're eating too much fat?
You may have a undiagnosed autoimmune disease
Your body concentrates on healing first..You will lose fat.
How was your A1C on vegan diet? And now?
McDougall? I did that religiously for a year, all organic with promises it would heal my rheumatoid arthritis but it didn’t and a bunch of other debilitating symptoms kept on coming: interstitial cystitis, vertigo, TMJ, anxiety and depression, fatigue, brain fog, itchy skin, night sweats, bad body odour, bleeding gums, sore throat….and needed biologic meds to stop all my joints from seizing up completely. Since switching to carnivore I’m off all meds and am completely symptom free! I lost some weight but have gained most of it back now 6 months carnivore but figure my body is prioritizing healing and I’m fine with that!
Thank you for the review.
Can you do a review on the Raw Vegan Rising channel? Most of his videos are the same, so you can pick any.
They needed better subjects for their experiment.
Start off with 2 candidates that actually need intervention/help [similar weight height and bodyfat percentage]
Put one on 90 day carnivore diet and the other on 90 day vegan diet and see which one has the best health improvement.
Both should have significant improvements purely by eliminating "junk" out of their diets.
Then leave them alone [unsupervised] for a year and report back! Then see which one was able to maintain their new eating / lifestyle.
The purpose of Keto / Vegan / Carnivore diets is to improve health [starting with healthy / lean candidates won't show the actual improvements]
Rather is a pretty cool thing to do.
I have a question? Iam doing the Carnivore diet for 24 days already, and lost 21 pounds... 5 days ago my BP was 179/93, pulse 77, then because I got scared I fast 24 hours and felt like fainting, took LMNT Electrolytes 2 ningxia red, 1 nitro and felt better....What am I doing wrong? Still feeling weak.
It's all normal but don't do fasting at this stage. Your body is losing electrolytes because the insulin has come right down - hence feeling faint. And your body hasn't yet adapted to using fat as fuel. Take your electrolytes every day and wait until your body learns to use fat as fuel (should be around 6-8 weeks) before you start fasting.
@@eulalia3446 ohhhh, I did not know that, I was telling my son that I think I might go back introducing almond Meal as a fuel, but I haven't. Thabk you so much for your advice I really appreciated 🥩🥓🥩👏bless 🙏
@@wandamazzulo779 💜💜
Also make sure you are eating enough fat.
I looked up and saw I wasn't subbed. Weird that RUclips throws these at me time and again without the sub. :)) Good! But weird.
Did the vegan just eat chicken breast when he went carnivore?
He probably ate fish and lean chicken.
They should have taken a month to transition (gut bacteria change) and get a experts input like yourself to tune in their new diet imo.
1.25× 👍
1 month is nowhere near enough time. That's funny, for me doing carnivore for almost a yer and a my crp has plummeted from 3 to .01, further reinforcing the fact that one month is nowhere near enough time. And plus maybe Joe injured his body doing construction work. I remember one time my crp was 80 after a recent major surgery. Also the Chase guy looks pale as do most vegans. I however I do have one concern, I asked my wife to do a 30 day carnivore challenge. Right now she eats these huge bowls of salad. She will be 63 next month and her attitude toward me and her life in general is deteriorating rapidly, almost to the point where I just want to leave. How do I convince her to stay on carnivore longer? Oh and she is constantly sneaking processed garbage from the grocery store into the house claiming it's comfort food, because she is in a constant state of anxiety, probably because of all the processed garbage and salads she is eating. How do I reverse this as I do not think that 1 month is long enough. Can someone please help?
Are you taking new clients? Do you happen to be in Los Angeles?
mayhaps what this N=2 experiment is suggesting is that mayhaps there needs to be more research into the benefits of diet switching / diet variation
Is it thing about LDL : longer period time it stays raised , faster speeds up arteriosclerosis. ?
In theory yes but it's not cause by it. atherosclerosis is an arterial injury completely unrelated to diet except for pure toxins and you guessed it, too high boots sugar. your artery is permeable to fat it should really be able to clear it out over time. it's more of an immune response
They say the higher number of LDL in the arteries, the more the LDL gets into the arterial walls. The macrophages go after them inside the wall and eat the LDL, leaving a foam. The foam inside the wall builds up and narrows the arteries. Over time, the more LDL, the more plaque build-up. That's the idea, anyway. I believe the smaller LDL particles get in when the arteries are inflamed. So, reduce inflammation and reduce LDL getting into the arteries.
@@catchristo9406 but lowering ldl is answer. I don't know why nobody promote carnivore based only on fish and seafood? It doesn't contain cholesterol
I need a Dr who isn't going to give me such a hard time about being on a low carb diet
I would never go back to vegan (I experimented with it, strict and clean for 12 weeks in 2018 and hated it, lost muscle and was crapping like a cow), but I am tempted to try the "flipside" of LCHF and do a LFHC diet- stick to 20% protein but maybe 70% carbs and just 10% fat... My TC and LDL are through the roof (TGL/HDL excellent)- I'm talking high 400's for TC and high 300's for LDL... If I did try this I'd stick to starches and avoid the fruits and monitor my blood sugar maybe even get a CGM for a month. It seems that it's the mixing of carbs and fat that's worst (Randle Cycle). I cycle a lot (4-500 miles a month) so the carbs would get used up hopefully before being turned to fat...any thoughts??
Carbs are non essential, fat is essential. Very hard to make the case making your body use up carbs constantly is likely to be good over a lifetime, but, your life, your call.
Your body synthesizes the majority of amino acid proteins from glucose which in turn covered from tryglyceride fats. I don't rate high protein diets. I think they serve to outrun the deterioration from avoiding saturated fats
From the carb for thing. don't fall for the trap. carbs are not faster for energy. body will start stimulating fat metabolism in the body the second you taste fat, before you've even digested it. if you eat any carbs you interfere with this process which is how we got to the myth the body doesn't like burning fat
If you need an energy boost eat fatty snacks and drinks not carbs. is you just felt the need to eat some tasty carbs by all means burn it off with exercise but don't do it for performance or health reasons
LDL is actually positively correlated with good health, longer age, and reduced risk of mental illness like dimentia. The studies of LDL risks were performed in carb eating people who could not regulate fat metabolism.
imo after you run out of glycogen on a cycle you'll fall back to ketogenic mode so really you're just kicking the can't down the road and fighting your body. and get this. fat burning metabolism has 0 incidence from muscle cramping due to practice shift buildup, the metabolic pathway for it doesn't exist. also low carb will make you slightly insulin resistant, likely because your body is configured for fat metabolism which may interfere with glucose uptake
@@seanveach950 Yep, there's also the fact that carbs (sugar) is food for cancers, and my appetite is well regulated under low carb... Thanks for your input, appreciated.
@@Mallchad Thanks for that reply and input. Strange though how "high LDL" is considered around 280mg/dL and this graph tends to end there, it doesn't cater beyond those numbers it seems. I've also considered that even for staunch keto/carnivore maybe it would be wise to "shock" the system say every 2 weeks with a hefty dose of carbs. It's like the flipside of vegans who go ultra low fat and their bile systems pack up as they aren't needed then later they discover they cannot digest or stomach fats (Like reformed vegan Lierre Keith)
@@ArdGealYes, its rather annoying. The data is completely scuffed and incompete for blood cholestorel levels, and worse, they never *ever* take into account keto. Which completely changes what those numbers mean for you
A one month change in diet is not long enough. You wouldn't even be adapted at that point. I would guess they guy that tried more meat based Keto (He had far too many carbs to be trying carnivore) was not using high enough fat or enough salt and electrolytes. I would really want to know exactly what he ate. I am 77 and have been carnivore now for 16 weeks and have more energy and have had health issues resolve. Do you have a link to to the Harvard study?
I feel if participants were Diabetics and if tried for at least 3 months.. would be better to differentiate which is better.
Not mean much since they were only trying diet. Since their were no ailments that they were trying to fix. So what is their upside reward? I tried a different diet? Healthy and young won't see much different because they will be metabolically flexible.
Changes can take months to years. One month it takes just adjust.
I would never change someone's diet if it's working well for them. If your diet isn't helping ..than change it.
This was not worth addressing. In no way is this anecdote scientific for any kind of control. Not one aspect of it meets scientific method. My 2nd graders could have pointed this out.
I felt exhausted on keto has no energy at all sometimes not all the time I never lost the weight I even gained weight your body does turn It to fat burning at first then you burn the fat you have eaten its nightmare
I'm exhausted in the Carnivore diet taking elements electrolyte and ninxia red and nitro but I was like fainting mode.
Intermittent fasting helps kickstart ketosis. Ketones will give you a ton of energy.
I'm doing vegan keto & seeing got results with my blood sugar
I don't think I can eat anything anymore
How can man gain weight on a carnivorediet? Am already very skinny cuz of i suffer from Ulcera Colitis on top of that candida… on mostly greens, nuts, little meat I didn’t see any improvement. So i now swopped from diet.
Same here, the only thing I'm very low in energy.😢
@@wandamazzulo779 Watched some more videos. Just eat enough far and meat. Energy will follow. Am still eating a little greens. Very little, just for not to change my diet abrupt. Did that in the past, not good... Week one is past, let's go for week 2. Eating greens till fridge is empty then full carnivore.
@@Jocke_1979 OK, will do, I took 2 Eggs AM, know I'm drinking Element and feeling better, I know this will pass, is not easy, Thank you so much.
I'm not at all surprised that a 10 year vegan had trouble adapting to the fuel in a carnivore diet- he's eaten carbs carbs carbs all day every day for 10 years- uh, yeah, he's not just gonna jump into ketosis and become fat adapted in a week or even a month! And even once he IS in ketosis, it may STILL take some time for him to really start feeling good! I'm sure the carnivore guy had a much easier time with the transition over to the other side- but then there was the transition BACK!😳😂😂
I remember when Drew Morgan did this experiment. I am sure the vegan guy's blood test showed he has thyroid issues - conveniently not mentioned 😏
We don’t know what cuz it would never happen
The problem with vegans, they don't calculate how much carbs they eat and that's a crucial risk they are blinded. If they only eat green leaf veggies, probably sustainable as a healthy diet but we know they cannot live like that. Apparently, vegans cannot avoid unhealthy big carbs diets at the end.
They should have prepped each others menus.
We know what the Vegan guy does. He is a barista.
😅
Carnivore guy looks fluffy. Vegan guy looks crisp.
Vegan had skin issues. Haven't gotten zits since starting carnivore/Ketovore.
I haven’t met a thin vegan yet!
I see that Chase was still drinking alcohol...
Please address IGF1
I don't think the guy looking at the two diets is that informed. His definition of things like crp is a bit off. It's an inflammatory marker and can be increased by lots of causes, even surgery.
I'd go with dr Westman everytime. 30 days is not an adequate time to gauge results surely
Including regenerative autophagy...
While I felt like you tried to put any biases aside, I don’t feel like the host did that. His views seemed skewed towards veganism, which doesn’t surprise me.
👍👍👍👍
It is possible to do a vegan keto diet❤
Sure but you'd be eating lots of goitrogens
Just bloody hard work. Time consuming. Shopping, cutting, etc . Lots of waste. Supplements. Plus dealing with all the phytotoxins. So why bother? Seems counterproductive ( from a personal benefit perspective). The farming/planet/ animal arguments are another set of arguments/errors.
It's possible, but it's bloody hard to do compared to a meat based one
• NO🚫STARCH • 👎
Well, it is obvious this is not an honest comparison. As you say, no controls, and unfounded assumptions posited as fact. Now I know vegans have some good results, but it is disingenuous to not recognize or affirm the equally astonishing effects of carnivore.
And most of all, the experiment should have lasted at least 6 months to see if some nutrients are lacking and to give the participants a chance to adapt to the diet. Preferably a one month adaptation period before the 6 months. Had a laugh about B12 improving "a bit", when it increased by over 50% though.
HDL of 77 is too high
I never felt as horrible as the week I tried being vegan
Veganism isn't like Carni, you have to break down the plant cell walls before consumption otherwise you'll screw yourself up. Indians enjoy curry which has the tendency to degrade the cell walls prior to consumption.