How are people not tired of the trope of "Princess doesn't want to get married, is secretly a badass, and then strangles a dragon to death."? It always felt like a weird idea to me that a girl who is the most spoiled girl in the kingdom, best food, shelter, safety, servants, clothes, ect., is somehow the victim. All she is expected to do is marry someone else and continue living with all those privileges, but somehow its the worst fate ever when compared to some peasant woman being abducted by enemies, starving, or freezing to death.
People ARE tired of it, that's why no one watches this stuff and meanwhile the female audience they're trying to target with it are off reading stories with cool male characters and romance lol
The only iteration of this story I liked was Merida, and that's because her brash actions actually have consequences that nearly destroy her entire life, family, and kingdom. Sure, she gets what she wants in the end, but it takes getting there first.
@@nightperson1012 Yeah, in Brave, her selfishness and responsibility-doding is the whole reason for the movies conflict, and the movie actually is concious about it. Sure, in the end, she still does not have to marry (yet), but at least she gets to the point where she actually is willing to do it and realizes that everything was her fault. So, not a pefect story. but a pretty good one none the less.And a very rare one that actually points out how selfish princesses are a threat to the whole kingdom. King Thrushbeard is similar in that aspect.
@@ethank4692 "She isn't the one who doesn't want the marriage. It's literally in both the appendices and the trailer itself that Helm Hammerhand is insulted by the offer of marrying his daughter to a Dunlending so he kills the Dunlending king. Like holy shit, at least know what you're complaining about" She does not want it in this movie though. Literally the first thing she says. So what OP said remains true ABOUT THIS MOVIE. Maybe you should pay some attention yourself before lecturing others. Especially, since you called Freca "the Dunlending king". Freca isn't the king of Dunlendings, he is a lord of Rohan who is rumoured to have Dunlendish blood. Edit - Did you just delete your comment after it backfired?
hell event most of the time, the girl would be alowed to have lovers, as long as the first child is from the princes! so they dont even give up to be with the person they love! they just need to be a little secretive about it lel
In the book, she's known as the "daughter of Helm Hammerhand." She is not named at all. Note that in the trailer, she is sitting on Helm's right hand and his two sons, Hama and Haleth are sitting on the left. Historically, sitting on the right hand is supposed to be a symbol of power and authority. Typically, the heir to the throne will sit at the right hand of the king. On the left would sit the queen and other persons. Except that Haleth was the oldest and heir to the throne. Hama was the 2nd oldest and became the heir with Haleth was killed defending Edoras. Unnamed daughter was never in line to the throne nor was she an advisor.
One could argue for the purposes of a Marriage Proposal here it might make sense for his daughter to be right there, assuming they knew this in advance. But yea, otherwise it would be the Queen, firstborn son, or closest advisor (Like when Gandalf and the others go to free Theoden's mind, we see Grima in the seat next to Theoden, and Gandalf takes it several scenes later.)
@@GideonRavenor712 In the book the offer was made in private, only Frecka & Helm were in the room (I did chuckle at the "Our fathers talk like I'm not in the room" line) but now they changed it to being this big official thing in front of the whole court
They should have just stuck to the story of Helm Hammerhand and left his nameless daughter out of it. Helms story, while it only gets a brief description in the appendices, is more than enough for a movie, and his daughter is just mentioned and not named.
No kings' daughter seems to be named in the Rohirric chronicles cited in the appendices - kings' daughters are listed but not named - except for those two whose own sons become kings later after their cousins' lines die out - those two are previous kings' sisters Hild and Theodwyn. Neither are the 3 daughters of Aldor the Old named, nor 2 daughters of Fengel, nor are even the remaining 3 of the 4 sisters of Theoden named safe for only Theodwyn alone. So the fact that Helm's daughter is unnamed is not significant, this seems just Rohirric custom.
I have hope for this movie. I can see its a girlboss movie so it goes not against the tide of so many of these movies and as such it could be boring. But as for me I want to see how much they depended the story on the marysue and girlboss topic. Maybe the role of Hera will be fine, and not too much on the side of marysue and girlboss. Her sentiment "I dont need no man" can be false or irritating (and then she would not be marysue but more realistic personage with weakness and mistakes) but at the same time it also can be based on smt in the story and in the Rohan culture. I see her sentiment as a good start to tragic development of events for Rohan. And also I see her sentiment as similar to the sentiment of Wanda - princess from Polish legends who also did not want to marry a cruel prince to make an alliance between their tribes. Her tribe got problems becouse of her decision. :) If this tale is something similar that could be good :)
@TallisKeeton I suppose that could be a possibility, especially with reference to the polish princess. However, we would have to wait and see. You can never know if something will be good these days, especially from modern Hollywood.
Every movie princess: "I can totally be a leader you guyz!" Also every movie princess: "I refuse to do even the minimum amount of duty and self sacrifice by marriing a prince and thus preventing wars because things being 100% convieniant for me 100% of the time is more important than the lives of my 10 million subjects! But you can be sure I'll never complain that I get to live in a castle, have 100 dresses, good food, shelter, and every luxury of my time. Me Me MEEEEEEEE"
Imo, it would be interesting to see a princess movie where the lesson is that the princess being selfish actually causes all the problems, instead of solving them.
@@BlackHawk4698 Indeed, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it. The movie "Brave" kinda does that - the princess starts off as the usual rebellious don't wanna get married princess thing. She offends all the other clans, she runs off, gets a potion to change her mother's mind about the marriage planned for her, and... due to her stubbornness, her mother gets turned into a bear, and a war between the clans almost breaks out, and she has to solve it by admitting that it was all her fault and that she has to face her duties as well. Of couse, hollyweird, even at it's best is still what it is, so in the end, she does not have to marry anyone, but at least she gets to the point where she was willing to do it and she admitted to being wrong. But of course, the flaws that I mentioned aren't really adressed in detail, just kind of in general. (So all in all, it's more of a "don't dodge your responsibilities" kind of tale and not a "the general problem with movie princesses" kind of story.) There's also King Thrushbeard by the Brothers Grimm, which tells kind of the same premise of a bratty princess getting humbled.But that one is also more about the dangers of arrogance and less about the princess problems that I mentioned above.
She also pulls a Guyladriel with the ice-sheet climbing. So she can do it all. I wonder if she will say "You have not seen what I have seen" or just explain how boats work?
Not really? This was 200 years before Eowyn was born. She certainly wasn't the first woman to face danger in middle earth. If you want to argue its non-caonical, sure yeah it is. But that's like saying Aragorn isn't as heroic because Turin existed.
Helm was the guy so badass that he could blow his horn before walking out of Helm's Deep alone and the enemy soldiers would run away instead of trying to gang up to take him. So of course the movie has to be about his nameless daughter instead of him.
@@RyanRoberts-qf5et Don't think so. You're acting like people are being unreasonable, when in reality we're just tired of the sexist, racist SJW crap churned out by Hollywood instead of entertainment.
I stopped thought about it and you know what she probably is actually the fastest because she probably weighs like 100pounds less than any of the warrior men, making the horses job a lot easier.
Pretty sure you won't be able to handle long distance gallop if you are poorly trained. You'd fall of or you'd have to slow the horse down to rest yourself.
@@IchigoParfaitTabetai Yes, but that's just the Rohan equivalent of having a drivers licence. By their culture its nothing special, they learn to ride as children. Someone especially of higher class not being able to do that would be seen as a failure, so it's not an impressive feat when taken in context.
I love how one reviewer pointed out that the daughter is supposed to be portrayed in this story as a hero, yet her actions directly caused the war and the deaths of countless young men, simply because, “How dare you choose a husband for me?”
Yes! Thank you!! I saw this and all I could think was, "if this is portraying accurately, her girl boss moment is leading to a war with untold numbers of deaths."
@hisdudeness8328 Don't care about that she show, but that reason is good enough. No one should have the right to violate another person's autonomy like this, even if it's their own child, and if they do, they should be prepared for the consequences, if one is willing to fight for their own freedom.
When I was 9, I found a book called Journeys of Middle-earth and so began my love of all things Tolkien. These modern 'retellings' would never have inspired my 9 yo self.
Funny, because, the target audience which will sweep this to ratings glory, appears to be 9 year old girls. However, it's much to violent for children. Furthermore, the anime artistic style presented here, and it's more muted, earthy darker colours appeal to more adult male anime fans. As a general rule of thumb, the more colourful the anime, the more the creators are looking for a broader male and female audience. Women, as a result won't be watching this either, and women don't either understand or relate to the fantasy genre quite like men do. Once again, Warner Bros will also be banking on licensing and merch deals. However, as we have seen repeatedly, boys don't girl boss, and girls and women don't buy merch like boys and men do. I am banking on a flop, yawn! The incompetence is truly breathtaking.
I always loved the Rohirrim, while the people of Gondor are like “we’re descended from the Numenorians who were chosen by the elves and have ties to the Valar etc. etc” the people of Rohan were just like “yea, that guys who just punched his enemy to death, that’s our King”
This trailer makes me mad. I've had enough. EVERYONE should have had enough of this fifth-column, demoralizing, woke garbage by now. It hits every gurlboss trope. Imagine a story where the heroine *actually likes* her culture?! Is that so hard?! BrownManWF couple AGAIN because having a Rohan princess fall in love with a blue-eyed blonde man is too taboo these days. Everyone supporting this should be *ashamed.* We deserve *better.*
They're going to tell a story that no one has ever seen before, a girl that is told she cant do a thing and does the thing and is perfect at it. It's a unique, stunning brave and fresh take that no one has ever done before...
"We decided to change the story of Helm Hammerhand so that it's all was about his unnamed alliance token daughter. I feel that this is what Tolkien would have wanted." -- Pippa Boyens' revealed preference talking
Book spoiler for the story: .. .. .. .. .. .. .. If they made Helm or his sons to be protagonists of this movie, they would have to stop mid-way in the story with a very depressed audience.
- Sure, Melkor, the 2nd mightiest god in existence, failed at ruling the world, but you, my regular human daughter of 40 kgs, you totally could rule the world! - But how, dad? - MeToo, daughter, MeToo.
I really hate that “You could rule the world” part because that was literally Sauron’s objective. I understand if the father says this while dying because it’s the equivalent of saying “Your stronger than you think” before dying but maybe not in a trailer without context or I’m going to guess the intention of it being there in the first place
It also doesn´t make any sense. Rohan played Ball with most of the other kingdoms in middle earth. They had good relations with Gondor, Saruman/Gandalf, the elves and the dwarfs for the most part. Why would anyone say something stupid as "You could rule the world" when that´s not even on the table?
XIX? Try XX. Prince Charles married Diana on his mother's advice, cause Camilla was divorced and wasn't a suitable match. They were stuck in a loveless marriage cause of the politics of the royal house.
Yeah, up to the WW1 it was unthinkable that royalty and nobles would marry outside their class. Marriages were always choreographed by courts and higher you were in the totem pole, fewer potential matches were available. Spunky princesses or princes with attitude about marriage in medieval setting is as realistic as Looney Tunes.
It's also insulting ignoring the reasons for it. Men die in wars and many others perish, but hey let's use modern morality ignoring the whole point of kings.@@mikavirtanen7029
Not to mention that arranged marriages were not always the worst-case scenario. Most of the time, it was just a way of networking and finding candidates everyone was good with. You could find love. Not every case was ideal, of course, but not every case was a grapey trap either. Feminists and post modernists just love their oppression narratives.
@@mikavirtanen7029 Archduke Franz Ferdinand 's wife Sophie was a commoner. The royals placed her coffin below his at the state funeral to show in death the contempt they showed her in life.
People act like marriages in these kind of times weren't also often hated by male heirs too. If you were a son of some low born noble or not next in line and your father/king arranged for you to marry a daughter from a higher status family or other kingdom. She might be a complete and utter horrible person, yet you will do your duty for the family. This was how a lot of great men and women came into power by marrying or marrying off their children to form the perfect alliances. Blood ties were also critical for peace and necessary as well X kingdom or person can't turn against you, if you essentially have their son or daughter hostage. Also if you didn't want to live as a prince or princess or noble you can abdicate, plenty of men and women did and choose to do so for the sake of loving another. You just don't get to live a life of privilege and offer nothing of value. For men and women, their only value was that they were the son or daughter of X. Even fathers and mothers didn't like to do it but it was either do it or greatly risk war. A loveless marriage is far more preferable than war breaking out and loads of people dying or your entire kingdom wiped away like a stray tear.
Well the father so strong he one punched the guy killing him which escalated the situation anyway. If he hadn't done that there's probably still some conflict but not like that in the books either
Helm punched Freca to death over an insult Freca had given him (after Helm had called him fat). The marriage proposal had been put aside to talk about later (with the implication that the answer would be 'no' given the insults, but still). Nothing to do with the princess' willingness to marry or not. We shall see how it happens in the movie. Presumably the punch-up will be the result of her saying that she doesn't wish to marry Wulf, and things escalate from there. If they want to be really surprising, they can have her die. Which would also explain why it is Helm's nephew (via his sister, Hild) rather than the husband of her daughter who becomes the next king. Nor are any grandchildren of Helm ever mentioned, so it would make sense for the line to die out.
@@ViolentMessiah666 supposedly those are the two boys sitting near the king in the scene of Freca entering Meduseld. Still a one brief moment is totally disrespectful...those guys gave their own lives to defend their country!!!!!!!
@@fantasywind3923 oh I must've missed that, would've been nice if they mentioned them by name seeing as this is supposed to be their story. She gets mentioned once in the whole thing. There was a marriage offer, Helm refused end of her role in the story
@@ViolentMessiah666 yeah...that's the thing...the sons of king Helm, Hama and Haleth are the ones actually doing stuff in the story, both dying heroically...then there's also the sister son Frealaf who will become the next king and HE was the one who ultimately defeated Wulf and reclaimed Edoras. So those are actually quite important characters, Helm himself is a heroic if a touch flawed character...hell if the story focus was on him it would be a great tragic figure story....or even a sort of like that Beowulf animated movie (protagonist dying at/near the end and add the epilogue showing the further events or something like that similarly like with the 300 movie!).
A gorgeously animated grilboss story is still a girlboss story. I wanted the _ACTUAL_ story, where Helm Hammerhand beats people like red-headed step-children and the Dunlandings talk about him like he’s John Wick!
@@solarydays Compared to most western animation it's a step up no more tumblr styled shit. However I agree the animation in some areas need work and I really hate the 3D it feels so cheap.
@@grimsonforce7504 They're using mocap 3d rendered scenes and they would draw 2d out of that reference , no tracing at all. So it's mostly 2D not sure about those war elephants and the wood destruction is 2.5. Good thing your comment is bearable because the trailer still needed some polish unlike the other person above who knew nothing.
I felt like Éowyn disguising herself as a man and fighting in the war in "the Lord of the Rings" was supposed to be a big deal, this kind of undermines her story a lot. I mean, nope you aren't fighing, women don't fight, even though we had this badass princess two hundred years ago.
Shieldmaidens are referred to multiple times during the War of the Ring. Eowyn disguising herself was unusual because it had not been done in a long time, not because it didn't have precedence
@@durrangodsgrief6503 She had to disguise herself because neither Theoden nor Eomer would have let her to ride with them otherwise. Both of them had inkling that riding to help Gondor will be a one-way trip and wanted to protect her. Neither them or people of Rohan didn't doubt either her capabilities or role (at least in the books). Also Eowyn at that point was pretty much suicidal and was only seeking glorious death and only by falling for Faramir was that desire alleviated. In Numenor and later Gondor and Arnor it was against custom (though there was a time when Numenor had ruling queens until the last king of Numenor usurped and against custom married his cousin). Rohirrim had Shieldmaidens as a rare custom however at the end of the third age it was mostly a thing of past and don't forget that Theoden was raised in Gondor for a time so he had learned some of Gondor customs.
I'm with Drinker on this one about reserving judgement but after all the girl-boss disasters we've been forced to endure lately, it's difficult to be optimistic.
I like the level of homework that’s been carried out for this video. Nerdrotic brought his LOTR appendices - bookmarked and ready to go and Theory is like “wait, it’s animated”? 😂
Everyone loves Eowyn and that is because she was a good character, she was NOT A MARY SUE. We know her story, its similar to that of Mulan, but "Apparently", "somehow", "she was not special at all"; women on middle earth "ALWAYS" grabbed swords and could fight on war any time they wanted. "No special achievement Eowyn".
"Due to the single handed victory carried out at this fortress, it shall from hence forth be known as haira's deep. I hope that no king in the future changes it cause of misogyny." -Helm Hammerhad
I love the bit where Helm-chan put on the ring and used it to defeat Galbatorix riding on the back of Kaladin Stormblessed while screaming "The wheel weaves as the wheel wills", then unites all of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. Also she's gay.
Noble women were raised from birth to make good marriages to ensure peace and power to their people. It was considered their highest responsibility. They were taught different languages, various foreign etiquettes, how to run a court, how to manage vast estates, and foreign diplomacy. It would never occur to these women to put romantic ideals before their duty, anymore than a warrior would demand to be a scholar or a monk would demand to take a lover. However, there are plenty of examples in history and literature of men being eager to win a woman's love and not just her hand. The wooing of Catherine by Harry in Shakespeare's Henry V is a great example. It was written in the 16th century about a 15th century marriage. And whether it was true or not it proves that a woman's willingness to enter an arranged marriage was not only acceptable but preferable in society at the time. Women also had the freedom to reject a marriage proposal, as shown in Pride and Prejudice written in the early 1800s. Elizabeth's mother tries to force Elizabeth to marry Mr Collins in order to save her family from losing their home. Elizabeth not only disobeys her mother's wishes, her father openly supports his daughter's decision. Could such a story become a beloved classic in the Regency era if women were only considered as chattel? But you know, patriarchy bad amirite?
A wonderful example was the Byzantine empress Theodora I. She was born into the lower social classes but climbed the ranks of society and eventually caught the eye of the emperor Justinian and he was so taken by her that he changed the legal codes that had prevented nobility from marrying commoners so that he could take her as a wife. And the story certainly could have ended there but Theodora had a lot of influence on her husband and used this to improve reforms and legal status for women in the Empire as well as advocated for and helped to protect Monophysite Christians who were a persecuted religious minority at the time. Something like that would be a story worth telling, but no instead we get anachronistic modern ideals of individualist fulfillment and self-determination projected onto a medieval princess for the 743rd time.
@@harrygarris6921 Lola Montez is another crazy story of a common woman gaining power. She was basically an Irish exotic dancer that shower her breast to King Ludwig of Bavaria who fell in love with her and she became a Princess of Bavaria until she pissed off enough European Royalty that they kicked her out. Its a pretty insane and funny story.
"The Kegels are coming!" An army of middle-aged flying cat-women in the sky, winging toward Rohan, with a box of wine clutched in their talons and screeching like harpies about the benefits of pelvic floor exercises. 😂
the 'princesses should not be married off like cattle' trope is so overdone. We're talking about times when the average life expectancy was around 30 y.o. and war/raids were a constant thing. If marrying solidifies an alliance and prevents future wars, YES IT'S ABSOLUTELY YOUR DAMN DUTY TO GO THROUGH WITH IT, effin spoiled royal brat...
30 year old average life expectancy did not mean that most people only lived to be 30. It meant that many died as babies, which dragged the average down to 30, but if you survived the baby phase, you were pretty likely to live for much much longer than 30. But other than that, yes, you are very much correct and they get this wrong every damn time.
Right. And that's not to mention child mortality. You'd be lucky to have 3 out 10 children make it to adult life. But sure, just completely ignore your duty because you want to swing a sword instead.
The others have spoken about the child life expectancy so I won't. But add to this situation where a literal fallen angel and man eating orcs are out for the entire species. Marriage won't hurt
@@unitron2005 not that much longer. I'm just guessing but probably 50, 60 at best. And child mortality wasn't the only thing that dragged the average to 30 (or whatever it actually was). Plenty of deseases, labor accidents, soldiering...
if anybody is interested in how marriage is all about business & stuff in anime format Watch kusuriya no hitorigoto / apotechary diary, its about a girl boss who know her place & enjoy her role, a slave
Feminist forget in arranged marriages the men are also forced into by the families. Freedom to choose a spouse was not a privilege royalty and high nobles usually got even the princes, as a sacrifice for the immense privileges they got they sacrificed some aspects
I feel like calling it "forced" is anachronistic. The young nobles that were getting married off were brought up learning the reality of their lifestyle and knew that in order to maintain their family's wealth and power and prestige they needed a marriage that would help facilitate this. In the modern age marriage has been turned into a very different thing - it's all about fulfilling your personal desires. But we live in pretty extreme times and people in the past were certainly far less individualistic than we are today.
@@harrygarris6921 To be fair, for men at all time periods marriage was a shit deal IF you followed the letter of the law about it. In spirit, in the past you could fuck around as much as you liked, as long as you don't anything too crazy like make some bastard that popped out of your maid heir, it was more or less fine. It was all about who got the $$$. In modern age, as long as you put your wealth in an irrevocable trust, in the name of a parent of holding company that is based overseas or behind shell companies where your host country has no jurisdiction, you can fuck around as much as you want. Basically women are just salty the purity/vagina market hasn't really kept up with the times.
@@snakedogmanWhat exactly seemed 'racist' to you, that a Japanese person has the same names as Japanese companies that are named after those people with those names? How tf is that 'racist' in any way? I just don't understand this ridiculous thinking?
6:28 As Nerdrotic said: In the lore, there was an invasion of Rohan, done by the Dunlendings and the Corsairs of the south (Umbar possibly), that were allied with the Dunlendings. Obviously no Olliphants because Corsairs dont have them. The lands of Harad were simply divided in half - coastal lands and regions were controlled by the colonies of Black Númenoreans and the Corsairs with their black ships, while inland was owned and settled by various Haradrim kingdoms, principalities and chiefdoms, which of course includes the Múmakil tribes that rode with the Oliphants. Eagles also did not appear at all. It was just the Rohirrim vs Dunlendings and their Corsair allies until the Corsairs left (dunno why) and the Dunlendings were defeated without their help, pushed back into the old Dunland (which is eastern Enedwaith essentialy). Speaking of which, there were many nations and clans of the Northmen...ranging from Rhovanion to Dale over to Anduin etc, but as far as i know, the Eorlingas of Rohan were ONLY blonde (dirty, normal or gold-like), so no redheads. P.S: Hera is a greek name, lol. And Helm's daughter had never her name mentioned. Only his sons were.
My real question is why did this have to be Lord of the Rings at all? I'm sure it will be a fine enough fantasy movie with a hot redhead warrior princess but in what way does this look or feel like LotR?
Because if it is made independent or an independent crap, they would watch one episode see is a bait and switch and watch no more being lord of the ring they would watch more, and sell
That’s my biggest issue in all of the trailers, more than Hera’s character because they can at least do something with her, but the designs just feel like generic fantasy.
So true, that is literally how like 90% of "new" noble houses were made, a commoner footman or squire would achieve great feats of glory, combat, maybe save the king or other high ranking noble in battle and he would be made a small knight or small nobleman title and from there he would just keep going up the chain of nobility...
Actually, most marriaged were arranged. No matter if you were a prince or princess, a farmers boy or daughter or a merchants boy or daughter. You married somebody whose connections were beneficial to your buisness, who brought wealth... Love marriages did basically not exists for almost all of time, it started roughly 100 years ago. (Well, and look how this turned out...)
Fun Fact: In the video game Shadow of War (not canon) we also get different retelling of Helm HammerHands story. In the video game we defeat the ring wraiths, and get a cutscene of their lives, one of them is Helm. In the cutscene Helm falls ill in his old age, and accepted one of the nine rings of men from Sauron believing it a gift that'll heal him. He gets more than better and his great strength is returned, but over time the ring starts to take over his mind making him more violent & erratic. At some point his daughter is captured by the wildlings, and he goes with his best men to confront Wulf, when he discovers that his daughter eloped with Wulf he tries to kill him, but ends up accidently killing his daughter instead when she stepped in between them. After killing Wulf; and his men that try to stop him during his episode, he blames their deaths on the wildlings and supposedly the rest of the story plays out, him going on solo night hunts for wildlings . That retelling and now this trailer just solidifies my belief that it's going to be a llllooooooonnnnggg time before a proper story about a strong patriarch of a family; and a authority figure, is ever going to be told. It just sucks man, I had high hopes for this show knowing it was being made by Peter Jackson. I guess the most I can hope for is that they leave Helm alone and just focus on their girlboss princess.
I don't think filmmakers realise how damaging the "girl boss" picture is. A woman can not be as physically strong as a man who trains. Giving young girls the impression that they can fight their way through everything is not only setting them up to fail, it's giving them a false sense of security around men who do want to hurt them and take advantage of them. This is why classic faery tales worked so well: they taught feminine strengths of kindness, forgiveness, and nurturing others instead of lying to girls and telling them they're just like men.
Its supposed to be a hero/heroine story. Every hero from Gilgamesh on to Rambo could be accused of giving BOYS the wrong idea and setting up to fail. The whole point of it was to see who was stupid enough to fall for it and help improve the gene pool by removing the idiots who would swallow crap like this.
To be fair on Brave, Merida is still likable, she accepts being princess, but doesn't like all the manners around it. Her arc was basically learning more humility. Don't know if they'll do justice in WOTR, give it a try.
To add to that she might just have the fastest horse... or like you're not wearing any armour or carrying luggage so you are lighter and easier for the horse to carry. Generally riders have little influence on how fast their horse can go... like it's the same as a gym teacher telling you to run faster... the slow kids aren't going to run much faster when their muscles aren't strong enough. If a horses speed was determined by riders than only the best jockers would be winning horse races and there will be little to no focus on how well breed and trained the horse is.
Jockeys are faster riders because they're lighter people and I'm going to assume princess girlbossa here is not exactly 20 stone. And as someone else pointed out she might have the best horse on top of that. Fastest rider is not the same as best rider
To be fair, she could absolutely be the fastest rider they have, because shed be the lightest. That is why jockeys are all small after all. However, in a fight, being light is not typically a benefit, as you're easier to throw around, or on horseback, easier to unhorse, etc. I'm not sure i buy this chick fighting an oliphant on her own though.
If she's fast and can spook it, which wasn't hard historically with war elephants, I see it being plausible. Elephants aren't fast creatures, and we have seen nothing to indicate Oliphants are much faster or smarter. Also as someone pointed out to me, she might also have a Mearas, which could easily make her the fastest rider as well
If my family still had the extended editions I do so more often. My father got the Blu-ray director's cut and tossed out the extended editions a few years back. It might look better but it's just not the same. 😮💨
As usual, they cant have a conflict be grounded. "We gotta have the eagles, the elephants, and the watcher from the movies too! To hell with the lore!"
Apparently the Japanese version of this trailer has way less Girlbossery. Editing trailers is an art in and of itself. Is it a girl boss movie, or did idiots in Hollywood cut the trailer to look like that because they thought that’s what their bosses wanted? Won’t really know till we see the show.
It means that they cut the girlboss crap out of the Japanese trailer to screw them over. They were more honest with us, though they probably are deluded enough to think it will make us want to see it.
FWIW, the Japanese trailer does not have the emphasis on the nameless daughter, and actually shows us Haleth and Hama, Helm's sons who were killed in the war. So who knows?
Well, the scenes are clearly in the movie or how else could they be used in the trailer? So yeah, the Japanese will get a rude awakening if they watch the movie.
@@jamesrichards2442 that's what it's looking like. The plot supposedly got leaked, and it was essentially Hammerhand doesn't listen to his daughter, makes mistakes, she girl bosses, etc.
If this turns out to be some super girl boss who saves the day, it will not make sense. Otherwise Eomer wouldn't give that speach to Eowyn in the trilogy, as Eowyn would be able to reference this girl boss. Hope i am wrong but alarm bells are ringing for me.
I’m only referring to him as “Rudley” from now on. In fact, I’m imagining a version of Ridley from Metroid with a tophat, monocle, and impeccable mustache named Rudley.
Theory's oblivious bemusement reminded me of an episode of South Park where all the kids in school are larping as LOTR characters, and then one kid is just there in a stormtrooper mask. 🤣
In the actual story her cousin becomes king after her father and her brothers die in the war so I think with her they're probably going to Aragorn her where she's like oh instead of becoming Queen she's just going to go off and travel the world trying to protect Middle Earth as like a ranger or something on many adventures kind of stuff lol
So gets her entire family killed, her kingdom ruined, her people homeless, and her response is to go on a vacation/roadtrip. For fuck sake, I'm an actual misogynist an even I think that is too much.
@miwe3719 She's also probably a lot smaller than a man, which would be an easier thing for a horse to carry. This is why jockeys are ideally as small as possible. Edit: But being the daughter of Helm, there's no way she'd be sent by herself as a messenger. She's far too important for that.
- A female lead in the age of immoral girlbosses. - The character has been assigned deeds and traits that are inconsistent with the source material. Now where have I seen that before? 🤔
2:34 Remember how WE didn't make this and how great it was....NOW GET READY FOR OUR CASH IN!!!!! YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! About a girl who was given NO NAME because she was SOOOOOO INFLUENTIAL!?!?!?!?!? YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
Guys, you need to watch the Japanese version of the preview. The princess daughter role isn't as promote in it. The American preview seems to have been edited to be girl boss in design, but it might not be.
It's because of different audience markets to different marketing sensibilities. Like how T'challa's face was Masked in the Black Panther Chinese Poster or How Finn's profile was almost completely hidden away in the Chinese Last Jedi Poster. They are simply marketing based on what they think their audiences want to see. To the Eastern audience, it's trying to appeal with the themes of War and Feudalism. To the Western Audiences, it's trying to appeal about the strong female lead character that is supposedly essential to the plot. Hard to be convinced otherwise based on Trailer differences when everything shown in the both trailers are actually in the movie regardless. 🤷
@@user-cd6dd3ye8k To a lesser extent. But the main point still stands. Foreign markets treat and market foreign films differently compared to their local socio-cultural entertainment. In Germany, at one point (though I'm not sure if it's still in effect) any video game that depicts blood has to be colored green instead of red. Or how in Muslim countries, even films about the Prophet Muhammad never show the face of the actor and he is always shown interacting with other characters from a first person perspective. But Jesus however...? 🤷
*Curious why they didn't focus on Helm or Hama, heck even Haleth (who we know a reasonable amount of, especially the former) instead of creating a virtually new character given we know nothing (not even a name) with his daughter? ~ We'd had created characters from Lurtz and Tauriel before, but never as a main character ~ Don't believe this was a wise decision, as it sets a dangerous precedent ~* The inclusion of Oliphaunts is intriguing, too, especially pre-War of the Ring ~ The only reference we know of them - prior to those events - was when Sam makes mentions of Haradwaith and Oliphaunts in the tales of the past (which could suggest Hobbits had ventured to Harad during the First Age, though we know Hobbits migrated from Rhun during the Eldar Days to the West, according to Tolkien ~ The former point would also be a reference to when Earendil (Elrond's father) ventures to Haradwaith and encounters the pygmies and battles Ungoliant within the Book of Lost Tales ~ *Vinland Saga should have been an influence* ~
@BartAllen It's possible that the Oliphants were there, Wulf did ally himself with the Easterling and other enemies of Gondor and Rohan. Now, why the watcher in the water is in the trailer makes zero sense. The Watcher was supposed to be a creature driven out of the depths of Moria by something far worse.
@beowulfsrevenge4369 except this conflict was during the long winter, there was no way mumkal could be sustained when for a whole eighteen months middle earth is subjected to cold and snow, how do you feed such beast when Rohan itself has only grasslands as vegetation. You cannot.
@colinbielat8558 Maybe it was early in the campaign, and they hadn't had the severe temperatures and lack of supplies? I do agree though a oliphant would be really difficult to feed and keep to keep alive in Rohan, especially during such a bad winter.
@@beowulfsrevenge4369 it still would not have been haradriam, harad is south of gondor so in order for them to attack Rohan they would need to go through either ithillen, which at the time still was settled by gondor or around mordor, the only force that can attack from the east are from rhun, the descendents of the wainriders and other Easterling races like the balchoth so no mumkal.
Theoden: "The Hornburg has never fallen to assault." (Trailer proceeds to show how it was fallen to assault.) I'm getting Ki-Adi-Mundis "Siths and extinct for a millennium" vibes here.
We're still in a holdover period where projects greenlit back in 2020 are just now seeing the light of day. It's gonna be another few years of this at least
That thumbnail made me think of anime like moribito, which might be for the best since rewatching that will be far better than giving this show the time of day
It baffles me that no one is making Beren and Luthien, given the clear desire to have a powerful female character as a lead. And if they wanted a Game of Thrones competitor, the Fall of Numenor is the obvious setting for something like that. It's like they'd rather undercut Tolkien than work with him. =/
Humbled? By killing the Witch-King? Yeah, I'm not sure about that one, chief. I don't think that's what Tolkien was doing there. I think his point was more that Eowyn yearned for the glory of going to war with the men, and she was actually a decently skilled fighter, but once she actually tasted battle she realized it's nothing to yearn for, but simply a necessary evil. This is why she ends up with Faramir, who hates war, but still fights when necessary.
@@MarkHogan994 DisFantasy is right: Eowyn was not a fighter in the books but the unlikely hero and she didn't yearn for the glory of going to war, she yearned for her misguided idea of dying defending her loved ones because she had lost all hope, she went to Pelennor to die and not to achieve glory.
@@alfgui3295 Faramir's and Eowyn's character arcs conclude not in the battlefield but in a recovery ward. Basically "We were really stupid, but hey, we're still alive somehow. Wanna get hitched?" They don't get a single scrap of dialogue for the rest of the film after their big hero moments.
@@alfgui3295 As far the movie is concerned, she certainly does seem to want some form of glory. At Helm's Deep she explicitly complains to Aragorn that there is "no renown" in minding the women and children. Aragorn then says "a time may come for valor without renown". This is one of the core parts of Eowyn's arc and she does not fully accept and understand Aragorn's words until well into the third movie. Either way though, she is clearly not humbled by killing the Witch-King. That is not a humbling thing, it's an extraordinary accomplishment.
If this girl girlbossing was canon, itd really make Eowyn's story seem completely pointless. Why would a woman fighting be so unheard of in two towers if a generation ago, one saved the country? Of all the locations to pick a girlboss story, this is quite possibly the most damaging.
This character isn't even named her entire literary existence is less than a paragraph. Helm Hammerhand is an amazing character that needed his story told, the story of Helms Deep.
1) she's an unamed character. That's how unimportant she is in the lore. 2) They named her Hera, a greek name. Tolkien paid A LOT of attention to language, and choose names carefully. The Rohirrim have NOTHING to do with greece or their language. 3) Eowyn was an exception, and even so the idea behind her character was finding purpose and coming to terms with her intrinsic nature, which is feminine, which is why she marries Faramir and becomes a housewife. If the message behind her was "look women can be warriors too" she would have become a knight and lead gondorian armies along with Faramir. Acting as a warrior in times of need and BEING a warrior are two ontologicaly different things, a point that many people miss about her character.
let me guess she is his fastest rider, best swords person, best archer ect. They really was like " Ya will just put red headed Rey Skywalker into lord of the rings, that's what people want".
@@sijul6483I prefer my head canon ending: "Who are you" "Rey.... Ray palpatine" "Palpatine...!?! As in the Emperor palpatine?... SHE'S A WITCH! BURN HER!" "Nooooooooooo!"
Hey, at least the trailers make her seem likable, like some humility. unlike the OTHER ONE! "THERE IS A TEMPEST IN ME!" or should i translate it: "I HAVE AN EXPLODING DIARRHEA"
@@solarydays 3D animation has always had _some_ presence in his works since Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex where it was used for backgrounds, cars, and mecha. The problem is that in his recent works like Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 and Bladerunner: Black Lotus, he went all in on it. I don't know if Kamiyami finally realized that the fans prefer the classic 2D look or if the studio insisted upon it because they know it's popular with anime fans, but I'm glad that he's not using that awkward and lifeless looking animation style for this project.
I compared the Japanese and American trailers and the differences are huge. In the American version, we have a typical SFL who saves the world after proudly rejecting some guy's hand. With her, no guy can compare. She alone will save the world. In the Japanese version, we have a girl who overcomes her nature and fear and undertakes a mission in which her friends support her. Not a word about how independent and strong she is. I guess it's supposed to be the same production, but you can see what the emphasis is on in the West versus the East. And anyone still surprised that people choose manga and anime over Marvel?
Hollywood: "Hey, y'know what would be _really_ interesting? The main character is a GIRL! 🤯🤯🤯" Also Hollywood: "Damn! Yeah! That's never been done before, has it?! Let's do it!"
FFS, I wish people stopped using "there was an invasion" as an excuse for the mumaks! Mumaks are from the South. Rohan was attacked from the east as a feint to draw away their armies, and even with Gondor occupied by Corsair attacks along all of its coasts, there is no way a fleet could transport mumaks upriver, or Gondor just letting them walk all the way up across their territory, so the east attacks must have been the tribes from the East, aka, no mumaks. Then there was an overwhelming attack from the West, which is when Edoras was taken, and that was led by Wulf and consisted of the Dunlendings bolstered by the enemies of Gondor who landed in the mouths of Isen and Lefnui. Now, _these_ guys could have been the Haradrim, but don't tell me they bothered to transport mumaks along the whole effing coast of Gondor when the same outcome could have been achieved by simply taking more men, without all the logistics and other issues of trasporting giant elephants for hundreds of miles on the sea! The mumak is the same unbased memberberry as the great eagle.
Just watch Frieren: Beyond Journey's End instead. It's a really good fantasy anime that came out earlier this year, featuring the RIGHT type of strong female character in the leading role. Honestly, ever since The Drinker reviewed Attack on Titan, I just want him to do more anime reviews.😅 I strongly recommend it to anyone that like fantasy😊
Frieren was a superior version of fanfiction Rings of Power and now reigning number 1 on MAL. We should convince The Critical Drinker to watch Frieren to help him wash the filth The Acolyte gave him.
The wife and I just finished the series. Incredibly good. Bit of a slow start but was insanely satisfying to see to the end. Now there’s just a bit of melancholy at finishing such a good show and wishing for more lol
I love how Mumakil (Oliphaunt) are in this movie even though the Easterlings and the Dunedain (the people who fought Helm Hammerhand at helms deep) didn’t even use them and didn’t even have access to them. Only the Haradrim used the Mumakil.
@@puddingcatsteamboat6393 I'm sure your comment was meant with the best of intentions but my actual point was to subtly comment on the fact that media refuses to use the word "Christmas" because of their abject cowardice.
How are people not tired of the trope of "Princess doesn't want to get married, is secretly a badass, and then strangles a dragon to death."?
It always felt like a weird idea to me that a girl who is the most spoiled girl in the kingdom, best food, shelter, safety, servants, clothes, ect., is somehow the victim. All she is expected to do is marry someone else and continue living with all those privileges, but somehow its the worst fate ever when compared to some peasant woman being abducted by enemies, starving, or freezing to death.
People ARE tired of it, that's why no one watches this stuff and meanwhile the female audience they're trying to target with it are off reading stories with cool male characters and romance lol
The only iteration of this story I liked was Merida, and that's because her brash actions actually have consequences that nearly destroy her entire life, family, and kingdom. Sure, she gets what she wants in the end, but it takes getting there first.
@@nightperson1012 Yeah, in Brave, her selfishness and responsibility-doding is the whole reason for the movies conflict, and the movie actually is concious about it.
Sure, in the end, she still does not have to marry (yet), but at least she gets to the point where she actually is willing to do it and realizes that everything was her fault. So, not a pefect story. but a pretty good one none the less.And a very rare one that actually points out how selfish princesses are a threat to the whole kingdom. King Thrushbeard is similar in that aspect.
@@ethank4692
"She isn't the one who doesn't want the marriage. It's literally in both the appendices and the trailer itself that Helm Hammerhand is insulted by the offer of marrying his daughter to a Dunlending so he kills the Dunlending king. Like holy shit, at least know what you're complaining about"
She does not want it in this movie though. Literally the first thing she says. So what OP said remains true ABOUT THIS MOVIE.
Maybe you should pay some attention yourself before lecturing others.
Especially, since you called Freca "the Dunlending king". Freca isn't the king of Dunlendings, he is a lord of Rohan who is rumoured to have Dunlendish blood.
Edit - Did you just delete your comment after it backfired?
hell event most of the time, the girl would be alowed to have lovers, as long as the first child is from the princes!
so they dont even give up to be with the person they love! they just need to be a little secretive about it lel
In the book, she's known as the "daughter of Helm Hammerhand." She is not named at all.
Note that in the trailer, she is sitting on Helm's right hand and his two sons, Hama and Haleth are sitting on the left. Historically, sitting on the right hand is supposed to be a symbol of power and authority. Typically, the heir to the throne will sit at the right hand of the king. On the left would sit the queen and other persons.
Except that Haleth was the oldest and heir to the throne. Hama was the 2nd oldest and became the heir with Haleth was killed defending Edoras. Unnamed daughter was never in line to the throne nor was she an advisor.
One could argue for the purposes of a Marriage Proposal here it might make sense for his daughter to be right there, assuming they knew this in advance.
But yea, otherwise it would be the Queen, firstborn son, or closest advisor (Like when Gandalf and the others go to free Theoden's mind, we see Grima in the seat next to Theoden, and Gandalf takes it several scenes later.)
Gotta Girlboss...
Sitting to the Kings Right Hand is I believe the origin of the name Poindexter ie: The Right Hand.
@@GideonRavenor712 In the book the offer was made in private, only Frecka & Helm were in the room (I did chuckle at the "Our fathers talk like I'm not in the room" line) but now they changed it to being this big official thing in front of the whole court
surely.... peter jackson will not eff this up. i would trust in his skill hopefully. sure therer are changes but
They should have just stuck to the story of Helm Hammerhand and left his nameless daughter out of it.
Helms story, while it only gets a brief description in the appendices, is more than enough for a movie, and his daughter is just mentioned and not named.
Making her a side character would have been fine too.
@hardworkingslacker7233 Yup, she could easily have been a supporting character. That trailer was practically all about her.
War of the Ro-HER-im.
Starring HER-a the Hero.
Girl Boss of Middle Earth
Woke feminist propaganda
Just like Rings of Power.
Nope. Not a penny
I read a good take that maybe the story should be told from the perspective of Fréaláf Hildeson.
No kings' daughter seems to be named in the Rohirric chronicles cited in the appendices - kings' daughters are listed but not named - except for those two whose own sons become kings later after their cousins' lines die out - those two are previous kings' sisters Hild and Theodwyn. Neither are the 3 daughters of Aldor the Old named, nor 2 daughters of Fengel, nor are even the remaining 3 of the 4 sisters of Theoden named safe for only Theodwyn alone. So the fact that Helm's daughter is unnamed is not significant, this seems just Rohirric custom.
Gary couldn’t remember Helm’s daughter’s name because in the appendices she doesn’t have one.
Her name is MARY SUE
@@life1042 ba
She had a name. It just wasn’t written.
@@SansoHumar are you appealing to some meta argument I’m not aware of?
@@SansoHumargroaaaan
Lotr: I am no man!
War of the Rohirrim: I don’t need no man!
I have hope for this movie. I can see its a girlboss movie so it goes not against the tide of so many of these movies and as such it could be boring. But as for me I want to see how much they depended the story on the marysue and girlboss topic. Maybe the role of Hera will be fine, and not too much on the side of marysue and girlboss. Her sentiment
"I dont need no man" can be false or irritating (and then she would not be marysue but more realistic personage with weakness and mistakes) but at the same time it also can be based on smt in the story and in the Rohan culture. I see her sentiment as a good start to tragic development of events for Rohan. And also I see her sentiment as similar to the sentiment of Wanda - princess from Polish legends who also did not want to marry a cruel prince to make an alliance between their tribes. Her tribe got problems becouse of her decision. :) If this tale is something similar that could be good :)
@@TallisKeeton smt?
@@TallisKeeton Hopefully
@@jacksparrow9227smt - something :)
@TallisKeeton I suppose that could be a possibility, especially with reference to the polish princess. However, we would have to wait and see. You can never know if something will be good these days, especially from modern Hollywood.
Every movie princess: "I can totally be a leader you guyz!"
Also every movie princess: "I refuse to do even the minimum amount of duty and self sacrifice by marriing a prince and thus preventing wars because things being 100% convieniant for me 100% of the time is more important than the lives of my 10 million subjects! But you can be sure I'll never complain that I get to live in a castle, have 100 dresses, good food, shelter, and every luxury of my time. Me Me MEEEEEEEE"
You can remove the word "movie" and then it becomes clear why female rulers are not common and don't last long.
Imo, it would be interesting to see a princess movie where the lesson is that the princess being selfish actually causes all the problems, instead of solving them.
@@BlackHawk4698
Cersei Lannister?
@@BlackHawk4698
Indeed, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
The movie "Brave" kinda does that - the princess starts off as the usual rebellious don't wanna get married princess thing. She offends all the other clans, she runs off, gets a potion to change her mother's mind about the marriage planned for her, and...
due to her stubbornness, her mother gets turned into a bear, and a war between the clans almost breaks out, and she has to solve it by admitting that it was all her fault and that she has to face her duties as well.
Of couse, hollyweird, even at it's best is still what it is, so in the end, she does not have to marry anyone, but at least she gets to the point where she was willing to do it and she admitted to being wrong. But of course, the flaws that I mentioned aren't really adressed in detail, just kind of in general. (So all in all, it's more of a "don't dodge your responsibilities" kind of tale and not a "the general problem with movie princesses" kind of story.)
There's also King Thrushbeard by the Brothers Grimm, which tells kind of the same premise of a bratty princess getting humbled.But that one is also more about the dangers of arrogance and less about the princess problems that I mentioned above.
@@BlackHawk4698 there's a number of this kind of story in Japan Light novel/web novels.
Thou non of them got an anime adeptation so far.
Kinda dilutes Eowyn's courage and bravery, doesn't it.
She also pulls a Guyladriel with the ice-sheet climbing. So she can do it all. I wonder if she will say "You have not seen what I have seen" or just explain how boats work?
Like WB cares
Yeah this reeks of the STD brand “Muh OC Donut Steel did this x amount of time before legacy character.”
@EnsignRedshirtRicky here's hoping for cringe lines like "I have a tempest in me" also.
Not really? This was 200 years before Eowyn was born. She certainly wasn't the first woman to face danger in middle earth.
If you want to argue its non-caonical, sure yeah it is. But that's like saying Aragorn isn't as heroic because Turin existed.
Helm was the guy so badass that he could blow his horn before walking out of Helm's Deep alone and the enemy soldiers would run away instead of trying to gang up to take him. So of course the movie has to be about his nameless daughter instead of him.
even if it was about him i'm sure everyone would still find something to cry about because it gives them something to do.
@@RyanRoberts-qf5et Doubt it, since they'd be dead of shock that a LotR show was coming out without being hideously SJW.
@@solan7978 I dunno, someone would make a video complaining on RUclips then everyone will follow
@@RyanRoberts-qf5et Don't think so. You're acting like people are being unreasonable, when in reality we're just tired of the sexist, racist SJW crap churned out by Hollywood instead of entertainment.
@@RyanRoberts-qf5etbuuuullshit
“I’m the fastest rider you have!”
I’m pretty sure it’s the horse that’s doing all the running.
I stopped thought about it and you know what she probably is actually the fastest because she probably weighs like 100pounds less than any of the warrior men, making the horses job a lot easier.
@@bomburthedwarf9036 Makes sense, all racing jockeys are quite small.
Pretty sure you won't be able to handle long distance gallop if you are poorly trained. You'd fall of or you'd have to slow the horse down to rest yourself.
@@IchigoParfaitTabetai Yes, but that's just the Rohan equivalent of having a drivers licence. By their culture its nothing special, they learn to ride as children. Someone especially of higher class not being able to do that would be seen as a failure, so it's not an impressive feat when taken in context.
I love how one reviewer pointed out that the daughter is supposed to be portrayed in this story as a hero, yet her actions directly caused the war and the deaths of countless young men, simply because, “How dare you choose a husband for me?”
Helm doesn't even wanted his daughter to be married nor his sons marrying the daughter from the enemy in the first place
Yes! Thank you!! I saw this and all I could think was, "if this is portraying accurately, her girl boss moment is leading to a war with untold numbers of deaths."
"Women most affected"
A better story is she wants to get married.
@hisdudeness8328 Don't care about that she show, but that reason is good enough. No one should have the right to violate another person's autonomy like this, even if it's their own child, and if they do, they should be prepared for the consequences, if one is willing to fight for their own freedom.
The girlboss is strong with this one
Their lack of faith in Tolkien is disturbing
Let’s hope not… but it sure looks like it
No kidding. It's got that "strong independent female" footprint all over it. If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...
Yeah, this more than reeks of a He-Man treatment.
Managed to kill my interest in one sneak peak.
Impressive
When I was 9, I found a book called Journeys of Middle-earth and so began my love of all things Tolkien.
These modern 'retellings' would never have inspired my 9 yo self.
Excuse me, but aren't you female?
Funny, because, the target audience which will sweep this to ratings glory, appears to be 9 year old girls. However, it's much to violent for children. Furthermore, the anime artistic style presented here, and it's more muted, earthy darker colours appeal to more adult male anime fans. As a general rule of thumb, the more colourful the anime, the more the creators are looking for a broader male and female audience. Women, as a result won't be watching this either, and women don't either understand or relate to the fantasy genre quite like men do. Once again, Warner Bros will also be banking on licensing and merch deals. However, as we have seen repeatedly, boys don't girl boss, and girls and women don't buy merch like boys and men do. I am banking on a flop, yawn! The incompetence is truly breathtaking.
I always loved the Rohirrim, while the people of Gondor are like “we’re descended from the Numenorians who were chosen by the elves and have ties to the Valar etc. etc” the people of Rohan were just like “yea, that guys who just punched his enemy to death, that’s our King”
But its gonna be the Princess that saves them..
Vikings of the Plains, indeed.
@GideonRavenor712 Anglo-Saxons, technically. Edoras is an old english word. But to make things more complicated, Rohan is a place in France.
Saitama: So, do i! Did he also had trouble finding oppoments who could challenge him?
This trailer makes me mad. I've had enough. EVERYONE should have had enough of this fifth-column, demoralizing, woke garbage by now. It hits every gurlboss trope. Imagine a story where the heroine *actually likes* her culture?! Is that so hard?! BrownManWF couple AGAIN because having a Rohan princess fall in love with a blue-eyed blonde man is too taboo these days. Everyone supporting this should be *ashamed.* We deserve *better.*
They're going to tell a story that no one has ever seen before, a girl that is told she cant do a thing and does the thing and is perfect at it.
It's a unique, stunning brave and fresh take that no one has ever done before...
"We decided to change the story of Helm Hammerhand so that it's all was about his unnamed alliance token daughter. I feel that this is what Tolkien would have wanted." -- Pippa Boyens' revealed preference talking
Tolkien would be furious if he knew what modern day studios were doing to his books.
Book spoiler for the story:
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If they made Helm or his sons to be protagonists of this movie, they would have to stop mid-way in the story with a very depressed audience.
"You could rule the world", "I'm not afraid of you" and "You should be", they lost me hard and I really wanted to see this movie.
- Sure, Melkor, the 2nd mightiest god in existence, failed at ruling the world, but you, my regular human daughter of 40 kgs, you totally could rule the world!
- But how, dad?
- MeToo, daughter, MeToo.
Writing generally sucks now but I understand what you mean.
I really hate that “You could rule the world” part because that was literally Sauron’s objective. I understand if the father says this while dying because it’s the equivalent of saying “Your stronger than you think” before dying but maybe not in a trailer without context or I’m going to guess the intention of it being there in the first place
It also doesn´t make any sense. Rohan played Ball with most of the other kingdoms in middle earth. They had good relations with Gondor, Saruman/Gandalf, the elves and the dwarfs for the most part. Why would anyone say something stupid as "You could rule the world" when that´s not even on the table?
these are lines that Tolkien would never in a milion years write for a character that is supposed to be "good"
Marriages among nobles were business deals even in the XIX century.
XIX? Try XX. Prince Charles married Diana on his mother's advice, cause Camilla was divorced and wasn't a suitable match. They were stuck in a loveless marriage cause of the politics of the royal house.
Yeah, up to the WW1 it was unthinkable that royalty and nobles would marry outside their class. Marriages were always choreographed by courts and higher you were in the totem pole, fewer potential matches were available. Spunky princesses or princes with attitude about marriage in medieval setting is as realistic as Looney Tunes.
It's also insulting ignoring the reasons for it. Men die in wars and many others perish, but hey let's use modern morality ignoring the whole point of kings.@@mikavirtanen7029
Not to mention that arranged marriages were not always the worst-case scenario. Most of the time, it was just a way of networking and finding candidates everyone was good with. You could find love. Not every case was ideal, of course, but not every case was a grapey trap either. Feminists and post modernists just love their oppression narratives.
@@mikavirtanen7029 Archduke Franz Ferdinand 's wife Sophie was a commoner. The royals placed her coffin below his at the state funeral to show in death the contempt they showed her in life.
People act like marriages in these kind of times weren't also often hated by male heirs too. If you were a son of some low born noble or not next in line and your father/king arranged for you to marry a daughter from a higher status family or other kingdom. She might be a complete and utter horrible person, yet you will do your duty for the family. This was how a lot of great men and women came into power by marrying or marrying off their children to form the perfect alliances. Blood ties were also critical for peace and necessary as well X kingdom or person can't turn against you, if you essentially have their son or daughter hostage. Also if you didn't want to live as a prince or princess or noble you can abdicate, plenty of men and women did and choose to do so for the sake of loving another. You just don't get to live a life of privilege and offer nothing of value. For men and women, their only value was that they were the son or daughter of X. Even fathers and mothers didn't like to do it but it was either do it or greatly risk war. A loveless marriage is far more preferable than war breaking out and loads of people dying or your entire kingdom wiped away like a stray tear.
I will be honest, the more I read about history the more the idea of being a barbarian a merc, or a Wildman sounds really appealing
Or the could grow to love one another. Did happen on occasion.
Well the father so strong he one punched the guy killing him which escalated the situation anyway. If he hadn't done that there's probably still some conflict but not like that in the books either
Helm punched Freca to death over an insult Freca had given him (after Helm had called him fat). The marriage proposal had been put aside to talk about later (with the implication that the answer would be 'no' given the insults, but still). Nothing to do with the princess' willingness to marry or not.
We shall see how it happens in the movie. Presumably the punch-up will be the result of her saying that she doesn't wish to marry Wulf, and things escalate from there.
If they want to be really surprising, they can have her die. Which would also explain why it is Helm's nephew (via his sister, Hild) rather than the husband of her daughter who becomes the next king. Nor are any grandchildren of Helm ever mentioned, so it would make sense for the line to die out.
the feelings of women are the only things that matter.
"My pride, my joy."
*is unnamed in the appendices*
And where are his 2 sons, Hama & Haleth? Didn't see them once 🙄
@@ViolentMessiah666 women are more important than men, even the unnamed ones, that's how equality works!
@@ViolentMessiah666 supposedly those are the two boys sitting near the king in the scene of Freca entering Meduseld. Still a one brief moment is totally disrespectful...those guys gave their own lives to defend their country!!!!!!!
@@fantasywind3923 oh I must've missed that, would've been nice if they mentioned them by name seeing as this is supposed to be their story. She gets mentioned once in the whole thing. There was a marriage offer, Helm refused end of her role in the story
@@ViolentMessiah666 yeah...that's the thing...the sons of king Helm, Hama and Haleth are the ones actually doing stuff in the story, both dying heroically...then there's also the sister son Frealaf who will become the next king and HE was the one who ultimately defeated Wulf and reclaimed Edoras. So those are actually quite important characters, Helm himself is a heroic if a touch flawed character...hell if the story focus was on him it would be a great tragic figure story....or even a sort of like that Beowulf animated movie (protagonist dying at/near the end and add the epilogue showing the further events or something like that similarly like with the 300 movie!).
A gorgeously animated grilboss story is still a girlboss story. I wanted the _ACTUAL_ story, where Helm Hammerhand beats people like red-headed step-children and the Dunlandings talk about him like he’s John Wick!
what do you mean, the animation is terrible. it's so brittle I don't know what 3rd rate cheap studio they abused for this
They girl this too! Why masn? Why?
@@solarydays Compared to most western animation it's a step up no more tumblr styled shit. However I agree the animation in some areas need work and I really hate the 3D it feels so cheap.
@@grimsonforce7504 They're using mocap 3d rendered scenes and they would draw 2d out of that reference , no tracing at all. So it's mostly 2D not sure about those war elephants and the wood destruction is 2.5. Good thing your comment is bearable because the trailer still needed some polish unlike the other person above who knew nothing.
There's a whole bunch of bad frames in that trailer & the facial proportions are wrong (enlarged eyes, shrunken nose). This is sloppy animation
I felt like Éowyn disguising herself as a man and fighting in the war in "the Lord of the Rings" was supposed to be a big deal, this kind of undermines her story a lot. I mean, nope you aren't fighing, women don't fight, even though we had this badass princess two hundred years ago.
Shieldmaidens are referred to multiple times during the War of the Ring. Eowyn disguising herself was unusual because it had not been done in a long time, not because it didn't have precedence
It works against its own canon, it's the same thing with Disney Star Wars. Because it's all about milking the IP, not what the milk tastes like.
@@sgtjericho7884 or could be an extremely rare to nonexistent if their was precedent she wouldn't have to disguise herself
@@durrangodsgrief6503 She had to disguise herself because neither Theoden nor Eomer would have let her to ride with them otherwise.
Both of them had inkling that riding to help Gondor will be a one-way trip and wanted to protect her. Neither them or people of Rohan didn't doubt either her capabilities or role (at least in the books).
Also Eowyn at that point was pretty much suicidal and was only seeking glorious death and only by falling for Faramir was that desire alleviated.
In Numenor and later Gondor and Arnor it was against custom (though there was a time when Numenor had ruling queens until the last king of Numenor usurped and against custom married his cousin). Rohirrim had Shieldmaidens as a rare custom however at the end of the third age it was mostly a thing of past and don't forget that Theoden was raised in Gondor for a time so he had learned some of Gondor customs.
I'm with Drinker on this one about reserving judgement but after all the girl-boss disasters we've been forced to endure lately, it's difficult to be optimistic.
The pendulum is swinging. It just takes time.
So, she does everything the fellowship of the ring does and more? 😂😂
Of course. Don't you know, one white women is equal or more than nine men...
Typical girlboss shit!
This ones caught on. @jonbaxter2254
@@jonbaxter2254 what's one black woman equal to? 900?
@@ifu138 over 9000!
I like the level of homework that’s been carried out for this video. Nerdrotic brought his LOTR appendices - bookmarked and ready to go and Theory is like “wait, it’s animated”? 😂
I don't even get why Theory shows up for these meetings. He doesn't add anything, he might as well watch them like the rest of us lol.
Omg, they're actually depicting a ginger that hasn't been race swapped. 😱
Was she even red-haired in the lore?
Has science progressed that far?!
It takes Japan to give Western audiences their redheads back
That's a trap, she is going to girlboss so hard probably making her stronger than the entire fellowship of the ring!
Well, it's animation. If it's live action, she's gonna be race-swapped....
Everyone loves Eowyn and that is because she was a good character, she was NOT A MARY SUE. We know her story, its similar to that of Mulan, but "Apparently", "somehow", "she was not special at all"; women on middle earth "ALWAYS" grabbed swords and could fight on war any time they wanted. "No special achievement Eowyn".
Yet another girlboss who wasn't even named in the story suddenly becomes the most important character in the story .. sheeesh!
Helm is sidelined and whitewashed in his own film.
"Due to the single handed victory carried out at this fortress, it shall from hence forth be known as haira's deep. I hope that no king in the future changes it cause of misogyny." -Helm Hammerhad
I love the bit where Helm-chan put on the ring and used it to defeat Galbatorix riding on the back of Kaladin Stormblessed while screaming "The wheel weaves as the wheel wills", then unites all of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. Also she's gay.
You forgot to mention when she used the power of many.
You leave Stormlight Archive outta this! Lol
@@vharuv4651 you forgot to mention she was wielding Mournblade. Come on, man...
It would be funnier if it took an arrow to the knee during all of it.
@@rogue_of_the_winds1286 Stormlight and WoT kick ass, wish more people I knew read good fantasy (rather than YA smut).
Noble women were raised from birth to make good marriages to ensure peace and power to their people. It was considered their highest responsibility. They were taught different languages, various foreign etiquettes, how to run a court, how to manage vast estates, and foreign diplomacy. It would never occur to these women to put romantic ideals before their duty, anymore than a warrior would demand to be a scholar or a monk would demand to take a lover.
However, there are plenty of examples in history and literature of men being eager to win a woman's love and not just her hand. The wooing of Catherine by Harry in Shakespeare's Henry V is a great example. It was written in the 16th century about a 15th century marriage. And whether it was true or not it proves that a woman's willingness to enter an arranged marriage was not only acceptable but preferable in society at the time.
Women also had the freedom to reject a marriage proposal, as shown in Pride and Prejudice written in the early 1800s. Elizabeth's mother tries to force Elizabeth to marry Mr Collins in order to save her family from losing their home. Elizabeth not only disobeys her mother's wishes, her father openly supports his daughter's decision. Could such a story become a beloved classic in the Regency era if women were only considered as chattel?
But you know, patriarchy bad amirite?
A wonderful example was the Byzantine empress Theodora I. She was born into the lower social classes but climbed the ranks of society and eventually caught the eye of the emperor Justinian and he was so taken by her that he changed the legal codes that had prevented nobility from marrying commoners so that he could take her as a wife. And the story certainly could have ended there but Theodora had a lot of influence on her husband and used this to improve reforms and legal status for women in the Empire as well as advocated for and helped to protect Monophysite Christians who were a persecuted religious minority at the time.
Something like that would be a story worth telling, but no instead we get anachronistic modern ideals of individualist fulfillment and self-determination projected onto a medieval princess for the 743rd time.
Patriarchy is a good thing because it keeps the birthrate high and stabilizes income.
@@harrygarris6921 Lola Montez is another crazy story of a common woman gaining power. She was basically an Irish exotic dancer that shower her breast to King Ludwig of Bavaria who fell in love with her and she became a Princess of Bavaria until she pissed off enough European Royalty that they kicked her out. Its a pretty insane and funny story.
"The Kegels are coming!"
An army of middle-aged flying cat-women in the sky, winging toward Rohan, with a box of wine clutched in their talons and screeching like harpies about the benefits of pelvic floor exercises. 😂
Dude... 😆
JD Vance tried to warn us.
That would be better than this.
100 points for original joke. Nice one.
Dude this is the most amazing visual amalgamation of woke female content I've ever heard😂😂😂
5:43 all jokes aside maybe you shouldn’t get into a brawling contest with the dude named Helm hammer hand
the 'princesses should not be married off like cattle' trope is so overdone.
We're talking about times when the average life expectancy was around 30 y.o. and war/raids were a constant thing. If marrying solidifies an alliance and prevents future wars, YES IT'S ABSOLUTELY YOUR DAMN DUTY TO GO THROUGH WITH IT, effin spoiled royal brat...
30 year old average life expectancy did not mean that most people only lived to be 30. It meant that many died as babies, which dragged the average down to 30, but if you survived the baby phase, you were pretty likely to live for much much longer than 30.
But other than that, yes, you are very much correct and they get this wrong every damn time.
Right. And that's not to mention child mortality. You'd be lucky to have 3 out 10 children make it to adult life. But sure, just completely ignore your duty because you want to swing a sword instead.
The others have spoken about the child life expectancy so I won't. But add to this situation where a literal fallen angel and man eating orcs are out for the entire species. Marriage won't hurt
@@unitron2005 not that much longer. I'm just guessing but probably 50, 60 at best. And child mortality wasn't the only thing that dragged the average to 30 (or whatever it actually was). Plenty of deseases, labor accidents, soldiering...
if anybody is interested in how marriage is all about business & stuff in anime format
Watch kusuriya no hitorigoto / apotechary diary, its about a girl boss who know her place & enjoy her role, a slave
Feminist forget in arranged marriages the men are also forced into by the families. Freedom to choose a spouse was not a privilege royalty and high nobles usually got even the princes, as a sacrifice for the immense privileges they got they sacrificed some aspects
feminists don't care about what men go through or what they have to deal with. It's all me me meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....
I feel like calling it "forced" is anachronistic. The young nobles that were getting married off were brought up learning the reality of their lifestyle and knew that in order to maintain their family's wealth and power and prestige they needed a marriage that would help facilitate this. In the modern age marriage has been turned into a very different thing - it's all about fulfilling your personal desires. But we live in pretty extreme times and people in the past were certainly far less individualistic than we are today.
@@harrygarris6921 To be fair, for men at all time periods marriage was a shit deal IF you followed the letter of the law about it.
In spirit, in the past you could fuck around as much as you liked, as long as you don't anything too crazy like make some bastard that popped out of your maid heir, it was more or less fine. It was all about who got the $$$.
In modern age, as long as you put your wealth in an irrevocable trust, in the name of a parent of holding company that is based overseas or behind shell companies where your host country has no jurisdiction, you can fuck around as much as you want.
Basically women are just salty the purity/vagina market hasn't really kept up with the times.
Man, "Suzuki Toyota" went completely unnoticed by the panel. Had me dying 😂
Seemed unneccesarily racist to me.
i think they noticed they just ignored it so they won’t get cancelled 😂
@@snakedogmanWhat exactly seemed 'racist' to you, that a Japanese person has the same names as Japanese companies that are named after those people with those names? How tf is that 'racist' in any way? I just don't understand this ridiculous thinking?
@@musashidanmcgrath Stop being racist, you racist. Things are enough racist as it is. Are you getting the sarcasm yet?
Lol
6:28 As Nerdrotic said:
In the lore, there was an invasion of Rohan, done by the Dunlendings and the Corsairs of the south (Umbar possibly), that were allied with the Dunlendings. Obviously no Olliphants because Corsairs dont have them. The lands of Harad were simply divided in half - coastal lands and regions were controlled by the colonies of Black Númenoreans and the Corsairs with their black ships, while inland was owned and settled by various Haradrim kingdoms, principalities and chiefdoms, which of course includes the Múmakil tribes that rode with the Oliphants.
Eagles also did not appear at all. It was just the Rohirrim vs Dunlendings and their Corsair allies until the Corsairs left (dunno why) and the Dunlendings were defeated without their help, pushed back into the old Dunland (which is eastern Enedwaith essentialy).
Speaking of which, there were many nations and clans of the Northmen...ranging from Rhovanion to Dale over to Anduin etc, but as far as i know, the Eorlingas of Rohan were ONLY blonde (dirty, normal or gold-like), so no redheads.
P.S: Hera is a greek name, lol. And Helm's daughter had never her name mentioned. Only his sons were.
My real question is why did this have to be Lord of the Rings at all? I'm sure it will be a fine enough fantasy movie with a hot redhead warrior princess but in what way does this look or feel like LotR?
Because if it is made independent or an independent crap, they would watch one episode see is a bait and switch and watch no more being lord of the ring they would watch more, and sell
Yeah, that was my takeaway from the trailer.
Name recognition. It looked a bit generic to me, even with the LOTR name attached to it.
Because they want the name tagged onto it and milk lotr reputation...
That’s my biggest issue in all of the trailers, more than Hera’s character because they can at least do something with her, but the designs just feel like generic fantasy.
Any normal commoner in the feudal age would have killed to be a noble even if there was an arranged marriage
So true, that is literally how like 90% of "new" noble houses were made, a commoner footman or squire would achieve great feats of glory, combat, maybe save the king or other high ranking noble in battle and he would be made a small knight or small nobleman title and from there he would just keep going up the chain of nobility...
Actually, most marriaged were arranged.
No matter if you were a prince or princess, a farmers boy or daughter or a merchants boy or daughter.
You married somebody whose connections were beneficial to your buisness, who brought wealth...
Love marriages did basically not exists for almost all of time, it started roughly 100 years ago.
(Well, and look how this turned out...)
One girl boss to rule them all.
And in the darkness bind them.
Bondage galore.
RED ALERT!!! RED ALERT!!!
DRINKER SAID AN ANIME GIRL IS HOT!!! WE GOT HIM BOIS HE'S ONE OF US!!!
One of us!
One of us!
Is it fair to ask him now what's his favorite futanari?
It's like a burger that they just completely slathered your most loathed condiment all throughout it.
You loathe women?
Also, it's vegan. And the bun is gluten-free
Fun Fact: In the video game Shadow of War (not canon) we also get different retelling of Helm HammerHands story. In the video game we defeat the ring wraiths, and get a cutscene of their lives, one of them is Helm.
In the cutscene Helm falls ill in his old age, and accepted one of the nine rings of men from Sauron believing it a gift that'll heal him. He gets more than better and his great strength is returned, but over time the ring starts to take over his mind making him more violent & erratic. At some point his daughter is captured by the wildlings, and he goes with his best men to confront Wulf, when he discovers that his daughter eloped with Wulf he tries to kill him, but ends up accidently killing his daughter instead when she stepped in between them. After killing Wulf; and his men that try to stop him during his episode, he blames their deaths on the wildlings and supposedly the rest of the story plays out, him going on solo night hunts for wildlings .
That retelling and now this trailer just solidifies my belief that it's going to be a llllooooooonnnnggg time before a proper story about a strong patriarch of a family; and a authority figure, is ever going to be told.
It just sucks man, I had high hopes for this show knowing it was being made by Peter Jackson. I guess the most I can hope for is that they leave Helm alone and just focus on their girlboss princess.
Theory is there like 'what's this LotR things they're so invested about?? Is it like Star Wars in the Middle Ages??'
"So, the ring has the Force?"
Pretty much, but there's Orcs instead of Gungans.
[says something disobliging in Kuzdal] "No, that's wasn't Wookie, Theory."
It kinda is like Star Wars in the Middle Ages now that you mention it though?
😅
@@PaulusAlone No, it's really not.
I don't think filmmakers realise how damaging the "girl boss" picture is. A woman can not be as physically strong as a man who trains. Giving young girls the impression that they can fight their way through everything is not only setting them up to fail, it's giving them a false sense of security around men who do want to hurt them and take advantage of them. This is why classic faery tales worked so well: they taught feminine strengths of kindness, forgiveness, and nurturing others instead of lying to girls and telling them they're just like men.
kindness, forgiveness and carrying pepperspray.
Its supposed to be a hero/heroine story. Every hero from Gilgamesh on to Rambo could be accused of giving BOYS the wrong idea and setting up to fail.
The whole point of it was to see who was stupid enough to fall for it and help improve the gene pool by removing the idiots who would swallow crap like this.
Ok, so basically this is the Disney Princess movie Brave, just placed in Middle Earth?
Exactly. I'm sure when they were writing the script they called her "Merida, to be renamed" because the story is basically Brave.
Except in Brave, Merida "saves the day" by admitting that it was all her fault, and not by stabbing eveyrone to death.
Don't expect that in this one.
@@unitron2005 I really like Merida. Having a teenage daughter who turns her Mom into a bear---I totally relate.
With crappy Japanese animation.
To be fair on Brave, Merida is still likable, she accepts being princess, but doesn't like all the manners around it. Her arc was basically learning more humility.
Don't know if they'll do justice in WOTR, give it a try.
you can see the face of disappointment in Gary's face
after years of mediocrity... there's always hope, only to be crushed once more
Getting used to disappointment and mediocrity is TIGHT!
I learned years ago that it was gonna be animated. That's when I checked out. I might as well rewatch the movies from the 70s.
I was excited for the first half of the trailer and then i went oh no 😂
😂😂😂
I initially stopped the video at that moment and just checked out😂
Same lol
I'm just 30, and I've seen every franchise I love go up in flames.
Feels great man.
Well, when all your myths and legends have been defiled by your enemies, its time to make new ones. Or get rid of your enemies.
There’s dust coming out of this udder
She is unnamed daughter of Helm Hammerhand, before it was called the Suthburg
"I'm the fastest rider you have"
Me: Doesn't make you a warrior tho
To add to that she might just have the fastest horse... or like you're not wearing any armour or carrying luggage so you are lighter and easier for the horse to carry. Generally riders have little influence on how fast their horse can go... like it's the same as a gym teacher telling you to run faster... the slow kids aren't going to run much faster when their muscles aren't strong enough. If a horses speed was determined by riders than only the best jockers would be winning horse races and there will be little to no focus on how well breed and trained the horse is.
@@MajorSmurf Well said
Jockeys are faster riders because they're lighter people and I'm going to assume princess girlbossa here is not exactly 20 stone.
And as someone else pointed out she might have the best horse on top of that.
Fastest rider is not the same as best rider
@@daviddiggens8841 Who the hell gave the best horse to a princess? That would be as idiotic as Lubu giving Red Hare to Diaochan.
To be fair, she could absolutely be the fastest rider they have, because shed be the lightest. That is why jockeys are all small after all.
However, in a fight, being light is not typically a benefit, as you're easier to throw around, or on horseback, easier to unhorse, etc.
I'm not sure i buy this chick fighting an oliphant on her own though.
If she's fast and can spook it, which wasn't hard historically with war elephants, I see it being plausible. Elephants aren't fast creatures, and we have seen nothing to indicate Oliphants are much faster or smarter.
Also as someone pointed out to me, she might also have a Mearas, which could easily make her the fastest rider as well
Except all the fastest and most successful jockeys in history are men.
Thats why BOYS were used. Not women.
You can always watch the trilogy again. :)
Just had. Night marathon at the cinema. Director's cut. Great thing.
The extended cut Trilogy. To be exact
If my family still had the extended editions I do so more often. My father got the Blu-ray director's cut and tossed out the extended editions a few years back. It might look better but it's just not the same. 😮💨
💯💯💯💯💯
You like to watch Jackson defile LotR?
As usual, they cant have a conflict be grounded.
"We gotta have the eagles, the elephants, and the watcher from the movies too! To hell with the lore!"
Apparently the Japanese version of this trailer has way less Girlbossery. Editing trailers is an art in and of itself. Is it a girl boss movie, or did idiots in Hollywood cut the trailer to look like that because they thought that’s what their bosses wanted? Won’t really know till we see the show.
If you read what Phillipa Boyens, the producer, has said Hera is the protagonist in the movie, it revolves around her.
It means that they cut the girlboss crap out of the Japanese trailer to screw them over. They were more honest with us, though they probably are deluded enough to think it will make us want to see it.
in japan this is just another average anime with or without girlboss. the animation is horrendous tho...
Yeah, I'm just gonna re watch Frieren it's way more Tolkenish, than the Amazon stuff.
It would be funny if the Japanese localized it and changed the dialogue to suit them.
Peter Jackson: "what if we do the Hobbit again, but make Tauriel the main character this time?"
FWIW, the Japanese trailer does not have the emphasis on the nameless daughter, and actually shows us Haleth and Hama, Helm's sons who were killed in the war. So who knows?
The Japanese are being baited and switched by the shows western writer and producers.
@@jamesrichards2442 Yeah, that's what concerns me.
Well, the scenes are clearly in the movie or how else could they be used in the trailer? So yeah, the Japanese will get a rude awakening if they watch the movie.
@@jamesrichards2442 that's what it's looking like. The plot supposedly got leaked, and it was essentially Hammerhand doesn't listen to his daughter, makes mistakes, she girl bosses, etc.
If this turns out to be some super girl boss who saves the day, it will not make sense. Otherwise Eomer wouldn't give that speach to Eowyn in the trilogy, as Eowyn would be able to reference this girl boss. Hope i am wrong but alarm bells are ringing for me.
lol do you think they care about such consistency? Girlboss is what they want, and girlboss is what they will produce.
@@snakedogman sadly, I don't think youvare wrong.
Judging by the trailers, she seems likable and it has potential to tell a good story. I'll give it a try, maybe they'll do justice, maybe not.
I’m only referring to him as “Rudley” from now on.
In fact, I’m imagining a version of Ridley from Metroid with a tophat, monocle, and impeccable mustache named Rudley.
I wonder if Rudley would be fear in Metroid for wit and snark?
I also love how insanely stupid her name is.
Like… you have so much potential with how much of a blank slate her character is and you settle on… Hera?
'mEmBeeRrr ThISsSSsS????
@@Yarblocosifilitico I membah!
Oh, it's just the 72564726th time they're doing the "girl boss that don't need no man"! How refreshing...
4:02 I KNEW GARY WAS GONNA DO IT!
I was waiting for it.
That’s a reaction of a man who truly cares.
Theory's oblivious bemusement reminded me of an episode of South Park where all the kids in school are larping as LOTR characters, and then one kid is just there in a stormtrooper mask. 🤣
In the actual story her cousin becomes king after her father and her brothers die in the war so I think with her they're probably going to Aragorn her where she's like oh instead of becoming Queen she's just going to go off and travel the world trying to protect Middle Earth as like a ranger or something on many adventures kind of stuff lol
So gets her entire family killed, her kingdom ruined, her people homeless, and her response is to go on a vacation/roadtrip.
For fuck sake, I'm an actual misogynist an even I think that is too much.
I love Theory he's so innocent hahaha
"she's the Gollum creature!?"
The fastest rider??? You mean you have the fastest horse? Lol
@miwe3719 She's also probably a lot smaller than a man, which would be an easier thing for a horse to carry. This is why jockeys are ideally as small as possible.
Edit: But being the daughter of Helm, there's no way she'd be sent by herself as a messenger. She's far too important for that.
Yeah if micro seconds are a concern in a short race. Ffs you’re a hat to a horse.
“I’m the fastest rider you have!” Was absolutely a call back to Arwen in the Fellowship film.
- A female lead in the age of immoral girlbosses.
- The character has been assigned deeds and traits that are inconsistent with the source material.
Now where have I seen that before? 🤔
These days it's more like "where *haven't* I seen this before?"
Guyladriel
He-man Revelations bait and switch.
The Hobbit trailers were never that milk-heavy…Except the use of Pippin’s song from ROTK in the third Hobbit trailer.
True. Even The Hobbit Trailers were epic and the movies were decent, at least.
Heck, The Battle for The Five Amies Teaser trailer is still good, IMO
Speaking of "milk heavy", those tits...Still, to hell with the idiotic "girl bosses".
2:34 Remember how WE didn't make this and how great it was....NOW GET READY FOR OUR CASH IN!!!!! YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! About a girl who was given NO NAME because she was SOOOOOO INFLUENTIAL!?!?!?!?!? YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
Two words: Girl Boss!
Hey you respect her now because she has a tempest in her
@@KendrickEdits lol
Two words: Kenji Kamiyama
A good director as far as I can see but many have fallen into following 'the message' but let's see when it comes out and how it actually is.
Give it a try. As far as the trailer goes, she's very likable and has humility, something Guyladriel DOESN'T have
Guys, you need to watch the Japanese version of the preview. The princess daughter role isn't as promote in it. The American preview seems to have been edited to be girl boss in design, but it might not be.
It's because of different audience markets to different marketing sensibilities.
Like how T'challa's face was Masked in the Black Panther Chinese Poster or How Finn's profile was almost completely hidden away in the Chinese Last Jedi Poster.
They are simply marketing based on what they think their audiences want to see.
To the Eastern audience, it's trying to appeal with the themes of War and Feudalism.
To the Western Audiences, it's trying to appeal about the strong female lead character that is supposedly essential to the plot.
Hard to be convinced otherwise based on Trailer differences when everything shown in the both trailers are actually in the movie regardless. 🤷
@@MoyosoreOgunbiyi Nah. Its the racism.
@@user-cd6dd3ye8k To a lesser extent. But the main point still stands.
Foreign markets treat and market foreign films differently compared to their local socio-cultural entertainment.
In Germany, at one point (though I'm not sure if it's still in effect) any video game that depicts blood has to be colored green instead of red.
Or how in Muslim countries, even films about the Prophet Muhammad never show the face of the actor and he is always shown interacting with other characters from a first person perspective.
But Jesus however...? 🤷
*Curious why they didn't focus on Helm or Hama, heck even Haleth (who we know a reasonable amount of, especially the former) instead of creating a virtually new character given we know nothing (not even a name) with his daughter? ~ We'd had created characters from Lurtz and Tauriel before, but never as a main character ~ Don't believe this was a wise decision, as it sets a dangerous precedent ~* The inclusion of Oliphaunts is intriguing, too, especially pre-War of the Ring ~ The only reference we know of them - prior to those events - was when Sam makes mentions of Haradwaith and Oliphaunts in the tales of the past (which could suggest Hobbits had ventured to Harad during the First Age, though we know Hobbits migrated from Rhun during the Eldar Days to the West, according to Tolkien ~ The former point would also be a reference to when Earendil (Elrond's father) ventures to Haradwaith and encounters the pygmies and battles Ungoliant within the Book of Lost Tales ~ *Vinland Saga should have been an influence* ~
@BartAllen It's possible that the Oliphants were there, Wulf did ally himself with the Easterling and other enemies of Gondor and Rohan.
Now, why the watcher in the water is in the trailer makes zero sense. The Watcher was supposed to be a creature driven out of the depths of Moria by something far worse.
@beowulfsrevenge4369 except this conflict was during the long winter, there was no way mumkal could be sustained when for a whole eighteen months middle earth is subjected to cold and snow, how do you feed such beast when Rohan itself has only grasslands as vegetation. You cannot.
@colinbielat8558 Maybe it was early in the campaign, and they hadn't had the severe temperatures and lack of supplies?
I do agree though a oliphant would be really difficult to feed and keep to keep alive in Rohan, especially during such a bad winter.
The Easterlings of this war are direct descendants of the charriot riders. It would make much more sense (and variety) of depicting them as such.
@@beowulfsrevenge4369 it still would not have been haradriam, harad is south of gondor so in order for them to attack Rohan they would need to go through either ithillen, which at the time still was settled by gondor or around mordor, the only force that can attack from the east are from rhun, the descendents of the wainriders and other Easterling races like the balchoth so no mumkal.
Theoden: "The Hornburg has never fallen to assault."
(Trailer proceeds to show how it was fallen to assault.)
I'm getting Ki-Adi-Mundis "Siths and extinct for a millennium" vibes here.
I though this girl boss crap was over? Not so far.
We're still in a holdover period where projects greenlit back in 2020 are just now seeing the light of day. It's gonna be another few years of this at least
@@gnarwhal7562 who is that news too?🤣🤣
You know Kenji Kamiyama is also the guy behind ghost in the shell right? Are you saying major makoto is a girl boss?
Why do strong women scare you?
but Damsel was such a roaring success /s
That thumbnail made me think of anime like moribito, which might be for the best since rewatching that will be far better than giving this show the time of day
Tbh if any of Tolkien's works would be best for an anime adaptation: it's either Beren and Luthien, the children of Hurin or the fall of Numenor.
It baffles me that no one is making Beren and Luthien, given the clear desire to have a powerful female character as a lead. And if they wanted a Game of Thrones competitor, the Fall of Numenor is the obvious setting for something like that. It's like they'd rather undercut Tolkien than work with him. =/
Can't wait for your next upload!
I’ll just watch the extended trilogy again…no thanks.
I'll just watch Frieren again which is nothing related to but an unofficial spiritual successor to LOTR.
Eowyn was self-destructive and humbled by her confrontation with the Witch King. She would have settled for marriage with Aragon, but he rejected her.
Humbled? By killing the Witch-King? Yeah, I'm not sure about that one, chief. I don't think that's what Tolkien was doing there. I think his point was more that Eowyn yearned for the glory of going to war with the men, and she was actually a decently skilled fighter, but once she actually tasted battle she realized it's nothing to yearn for, but simply a necessary evil. This is why she ends up with Faramir, who hates war, but still fights when necessary.
@@MarkHogan994 DisFantasy is right: Eowyn was not a fighter in the books but the unlikely hero and she didn't yearn for the glory of going to war, she yearned for her misguided idea of dying defending her loved ones because she had lost all hope, she went to Pelennor to die and not to achieve glory.
Why of course Aragorn turned her down. All men of culture would do that if they had an elf who would stay in her prime for at least 100 years. 😂
@@alfgui3295 Faramir's and Eowyn's character arcs conclude not in the battlefield but in a recovery ward. Basically "We were really stupid, but hey, we're still alive somehow. Wanna get hitched?"
They don't get a single scrap of dialogue for the rest of the film after their big hero moments.
@@alfgui3295 As far the movie is concerned, she certainly does seem to want some form of glory. At Helm's Deep she explicitly complains to Aragorn that there is "no renown" in minding the women and children. Aragorn then says "a time may come for valor without renown". This is one of the core parts of Eowyn's arc and she does not fully accept and understand Aragorn's words until well into the third movie.
Either way though, she is clearly not humbled by killing the Witch-King. That is not a humbling thing, it's an extraordinary accomplishment.
December is a packed month. Can't wait. But lets be honest. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 is going to dominate in December.
I might have cared. If I was 5 years old.
@@Sandlund93 you can enjoy it regardless of age.
If this girl girlbossing was canon, itd really make Eowyn's story seem completely pointless. Why would a woman fighting be so unheard of in two towers if a generation ago, one saved the country? Of all the locations to pick a girlboss story, this is quite possibly the most damaging.
Wait it was only a generation ago? I thought it might atleast be several hundred years ago enough that people may have forgotten about it
This character isn't even named her entire literary existence is less than a paragraph. Helm Hammerhand is an amazing character that needed his story told, the story of Helms Deep.
1) she's an unamed character. That's how unimportant she is in the lore.
2) They named her Hera, a greek name. Tolkien paid A LOT of attention to language, and choose names carefully. The Rohirrim have NOTHING to do with greece or their language.
3) Eowyn was an exception, and even so the idea behind her character was finding purpose and coming to terms with her intrinsic nature, which is feminine, which is why she marries Faramir and becomes a housewife. If the message behind her was "look women can be warriors too" she would have become a knight and lead gondorian armies along with Faramir. Acting as a warrior in times of need and BEING a warrior are two ontologicaly different things, a point that many people miss about her character.
Ridley scott is 86 years old. Thats crazy to me that means i have been watching his movies since i could watch movies. First one was Legend
let me guess she is his fastest rider, best swords person, best archer ect. They really was like " Ya will just put red headed Rey Skywalker into lord of the rings, that's what people want".
How dare you call her Rey Skywalker haha. She's a filthy Palpy. Or better yet, nothing at all.
@@sheikyerbouti39
"Who are you?"
"Rey."
"Rey who?"
"Rey."
@@sijul6483I prefer my head canon ending:
"Who are you"
"Rey.... Ray palpatine"
"Palpatine...!?! As in the Emperor palpatine?...
SHE'S A WITCH! BURN HER!"
"Nooooooooooo!"
Hey, at least the trailers make her seem likable, like some humility. unlike the OTHER ONE!
"THERE IS A TEMPEST IN ME!"
or should i translate it:
"I HAVE AN EXPLODING DIARRHEA"
That collective sigh though
If nothing else, at least Kenji Kamiyami has _finally_ ended his love affair with 3D animation and gone back to his roots.
nah it's there, you can see how much 3D base they used
@@solarydays 3D animation has always had _some_ presence in his works since Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex where it was used for backgrounds, cars, and mecha. The problem is that in his recent works like Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 and Bladerunner: Black Lotus, he went all in on it. I don't know if Kamiyami finally realized that the fans prefer the classic 2D look or if the studio insisted upon it because they know it's popular with anime fans, but I'm glad that he's not using that awkward and lifeless looking animation style for this project.
@@AtariDad My guess would be the executives insisted on the style, a LotR series with full 3D sounds odd, wouldn't be good marketing.
I compared the Japanese and American trailers and the differences are huge. In the American version, we have a typical SFL who saves the world after proudly rejecting some guy's hand. With her, no guy can compare. She alone will save the world. In the Japanese version, we have a girl who overcomes her nature and fear and undertakes a mission in which her friends support her. Not a word about how independent and strong she is. I guess it's supposed to be the same production, but you can see what the emphasis is on in the West versus the East. And anyone still surprised that people choose manga and anime over Marvel?
Hollywood: "Hey, y'know what would be _really_ interesting? The main character is a GIRL! 🤯🤯🤯"
Also Hollywood: "Damn! Yeah! That's never been done before, has it?! Let's do it!"
Gary is so damn proud of knowing those books by heart
A story about the badass that is Helm Hammerhand would have been awesome but no we have to have it about his daughter..sigh. Won’t be watching this
A lore acurate Helm Hammerhand would read like a Chuck Norris joke.
FFS, I wish people stopped using "there was an invasion" as an excuse for the mumaks! Mumaks are from the South. Rohan was attacked from the east as a feint to draw away their armies, and even with Gondor occupied by Corsair attacks along all of its coasts, there is no way a fleet could transport mumaks upriver, or Gondor just letting them walk all the way up across their territory, so the east attacks must have been the tribes from the East, aka, no mumaks. Then there was an overwhelming attack from the West, which is when Edoras was taken, and that was led by Wulf and consisted of the Dunlendings bolstered by the enemies of Gondor who landed in the mouths of Isen and Lefnui. Now, _these_ guys could have been the Haradrim, but don't tell me they bothered to transport mumaks along the whole effing coast of Gondor when the same outcome could have been achieved by simply taking more men, without all the logistics and other issues of trasporting giant elephants for hundreds of miles on the sea! The mumak is the same unbased memberberry as the great eagle.
This reminds me more of Merida from Disney's "Brave" than anything out of Tolkien
Nerdrotic with “THE ORIGINAL MISFITS” shirt 🤘
Just watch Frieren: Beyond Journey's End instead. It's a really good fantasy anime that came out earlier this year, featuring the RIGHT type of strong female character in the leading role. Honestly, ever since The Drinker reviewed Attack on Titan, I just want him to do more anime reviews.😅 I strongly recommend it to anyone that like fantasy😊
Frieren was a superior version of fanfiction Rings of Power and now reigning number 1 on MAL. We should convince The Critical Drinker to watch Frieren to help him wash the filth The Acolyte gave him.
@@artfire28 100% agree. I forgot to mention that it is number 1 on MAL in my initial comment. Thank you for mentioning it
The wife and I just finished the series. Incredibly good. Bit of a slow start but was insanely satisfying to see to the end. Now there’s just a bit of melancholy at finishing such a good show and wishing for more lol
I love how Mumakil (Oliphaunt) are in this movie even though the Easterlings and the Dunedain (the people who fought Helm Hammerhand at helms deep) didn’t even use them and didn’t even have access to them. Only the Haradrim used the Mumakil.
"Holiday Season"? What, Columbus Day? Labor Day? Talk Like a Pirate Day?
Pride month
typically holiday season means halloween through to new years, still a large chunk of time but i hope that helps.
@@puddingcatsteamboat6393 I'm sure your comment was meant with the best of intentions but my actual point was to subtly comment on the fact that media refuses to use the word "Christmas" because of their abject cowardice.
Leif Erikson Day.