Evolution of Wet/Dry/Wet: 80s, 90s, & Now
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2020
- HIGH QUALITY AUDIO ALERT! Listen to isolated guitar stems with headphones if possible for the best results!
Wet/Dry/Wet is a term that gets thrown around a lot on RUclips, Instagram, and Facebook by established names and amateurs alike - without a complete understanding of the concept. In this video, you will learn the origins of Wet/Dry/Wet from the beginnings with Robert Bradshaw (Custom Audio Electronics) in the early 1980's through to the current day interpretations with sound examples to illustrate each era. You'll also hear the difference between the newer, re-appropriated interpretations of Wet/Dry/Wet (which is really a split system), versus a Wet/Dry/Wet signal path - allowing you to hear the difference and decide which set-up might be right for you and your rig.
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TABLE OF CONTENTS
Intro - 00:49
Wet/Dry/Wet Origins - 02:36
Bob Bradshaw Interview - 04:46
First wave Wet/Dry/Wet - 04:49
Second wave Wet/Dry/Wet - 08:46
Third & fourth wave Wet/Dry/Wet - 10:30
Wet/Dry/Wet prerequisites - 13:34
Wet/Dry/Wet vs. Split Mono (wet/wet + dry) - 14:24
Wet/Dry/Wet vs. Split Mono A/B sound test - 16:43
What you need to your own Wet/Dry/Wet rig - 17:51
Closing - 21:39
CONTRIBUTORS:
Hunter Harrison - Mixing, Audio Editing
Mason Mejia - Co-Producing
Kjetil Nesheim - Diagrams & Technical Consulting
TKM Brandt - Technical Consulting & Fact Check
Phawin Phanudom - Robert Bradshaw Footage
Rigs of the Pros - Photos
Michael James - Photos
Marty Walsh - Photos
Tim Marco - Music
#RigDoctor #WetDryWet #Pedalboards 
Видеоклипы
*HIGH QUALITY AUDIO ALERT!* Listen to isolated guitar stems with headphones if possible for the best possible results!
Wet/Dry/Wet is a term that gets thrown around a lot on RUclips, Instagram, and Facebook by established names and amateurs alike - without a complete understanding of the concept. In this video, you will learn the origins of Wet/Dry/Wet from the beginnings with Robert Bradshaw (Custom Audio Electronics) in the early 1980's through to the current day interpretations with sound examples to illustrate each era. You'll also hear the difference between the newer, re-appropriated interpretations of Wet/Dry/Wet (which is really a split system), versus a Wet/Dry/Wet signal path - allowing you to hear the difference and decide which set-up might be right for you and your rig.
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Intro - 00:49
Wet/Dry/Wet Origins - 02:36
Bob Bradshaw Interview - 04:46
First wave Wet/Dry/Wet - 04:49
Second wave Wet/Dry/Wet - 08:46
Third & fourth wave Wet/Dry/Wet - 10:30
Wet/Dry/Wet prerequisites - 13:34
Wet/Dry/Wet vs. Split Mono (wet/wet + dry) - 14:24
Wet/Dry/Wet vs. Split Mono A/B sound test - 16:43
What you need to your own Wet/Dry/Wet rig - 17:51
Closing - 21:39
I think I like the sounds of the 80s setup more, especially on Glory Of Love
The Ronquillo Rack needs to be born!
@@VertexEffectsInc let's make a rack but just put pedals in it.
@@RJRonquillo #practical
That tone is amazing
I agree. Dan huff and Peter cetera are my dream band
There’s 22 people out there that disliked your video because they believe they know EVERYTHING but disliked it because you actually taught them something.
Sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Yea
In Chinatown🤣
Projecting hard aren't we?
I know this is an older video, but I wanted to clarify something around 6:50. Bradshaw built many systems using the Palmer PDI-03 Speaker Simulators. It provided four "line-outs" and an "amp-thru". Those were extremely popular with W/D/W rigs because it loaded the amp with a proper inductive load or impedance(AC resistance) instead of a purely resistive load. There are so many ways to wire a W/D/W using the Palmer depending on the musician and their needs.
Bradshaw is a pioneer who was way ahead of his time. He doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's a hell of a smart man and truly a nice guy to talk to. I called CAE years ago with some inquiries about a line-out box and general rack switching questions. Bob answered the phone personally and spent 20-30 minutes on the phone with me patiently answering questions....and I'm a nobody.
These views into past guitar effects make me super thankful for the magical "Mix" knob
Really liked this video! There are so many misconceptions about WDW rigs about, so I'm glad to see somebody clear them up in an easy-to-view package. One minor nitpicks: the first Soldano SLO-100 prototypes didn't arrive until 1987, and only started really gaining traction in 1989, so it definitely was not used in mid-80s rigs.
King! Glad you dig it! This was actually a block diagram of EVH's rig in '87 as built by Robert Bradshaw. May have been a prototype of some kind or some transition between the X88 and SLO.
What was interesting to me was really focusing on what I was hearing. On the Michael Jackson one, you can hear the dry guitar, now, for the rest of the effects, most people would just put everything on the wet signal, but you can hear the chorus guitar, and the clean delay guitar separately. Amazing layering.
Some great classic tones right there! We were lucky to get those tracks!
love that period of Dann Huff when he was using that ultra cool Yellow Tyler
Yes indeed!
Bradshaws racks had dry outs and wet outs much earlier around 1982.
Just for studio players so the producers could chose between the players effected sound or effect the dry sound at their discretion
Glad to see your efforts come to fruition. Lots of great knowledge here and good tones.
Much appreciated! Thanks for watching!
In the sound examples there is a distinct DI sound that isn’t included in the resulting rig builds. This studio sound is from having a very flexible routing system, where the signal is captured at various stages. The DI, the dry amp, and the effects outputs. A multi channel mixer is used and the producer can simply adjust any signal to taste. I hear DI, with some amp and definitely effects. Later in the 80s the DI sound fell out of favor. But it’s much more common right now for people who re-amp. They just rarely mix it in.
The source chosen to feed the effects changed over time as demonstrated here. Some would feed DI into the effects and the result is distinct. Some would feed amp line out, and finally a speaker as source. Speaker as source sounds so natural and studio quality, in my opinion. It’s a dry amp’s speaker and resembles the studio engineer tracking audio and using these effects units to post process it. To me, that’s what I’m going for.
The DI sound is specific to an era. Interesting, none the less.
Always something to learn from ur vids mate. Appreciate the effort you go to to be clear and informative
Glad to help
Great video and wonderful explanation. Having heard the term over the decades, i did not really understand the concept, so this was great!! Thanks!
So glad you found it useful! I hope we earn your subscription
Turned out great!! Cool to see my schematics in the video😎😎
Best block diagrams in the business! Thank you Kjetil!
The EVH Balance tone is underrated
yes!
Awesome video Mason! Thank you for sharing It in a real nice and simple way. I always strived for this content in videos specially for Luke and ML.
Regards.
Mizraim
You're welcome! I hope we earned your subscription!
Really informative video! I personally prefer the split amp set up for both ease of set up and tone. I like that the wet it's a little bit more in your face this way.
Not right or wrong way to do it if you like the tone. I just wanted to outline the distinctions for each and the tones associated. So glad you dig the video! I hope we earned your subscription!
Sweet that the studio guitarists and "guitarists' guitarists" are getting some love here. Michael Landau is awesome - creative player with great ideas and chops. Not too many non-guitarists know him by name, but they should!
Thank you Mason for this clear well-made document of W/D/W history.
I remember too well carrying all that shit around in the 80: Stereo Boogie racks-of-doom rigs...it was pretty silly. Thank goodness tech has kept stride w/ my willingness to haul heavy gear around.
You’re very welcome! Looking forward to making some more videos on the topic and some simplified versions for Pedalboard applications
I've read articles on this but this video is the best explanation I've seen about W/D/W. Its something I'd love to mess with as I use both rack gear & pedals in my live rig so really all I'd need was a power amp & another couple of cabs but for the gigs I do the extra setup & time it would take to load it up wouldn't be worth it. Great video.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow, thank you ! Best explanation i`ve seen by far. Great Job !
Glad it was helpful!
Killer! Absolutely love this video, man!
Glad you dig it Richard, hope we earned your sub!
What’s up Mason, Great video!
Thanks for this valuable info Mason!
Wow! I was NOT expecting that big a sonic difference! Great video, excellent research and simple explanation. Thanks Uncle Mason!
🥳🥳🥳 my pleasure ! I hope we earned your subscription
Vertex Effects Absolutely. Long time subscriber and fan (and Vertex customer)!
Paul Kroger Jr 🙏🙏🙏
well researched and superbly explained! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Great job explaining things. He hit is niche with these explanatory videos.
Great vid as always.
Thanks Billy! Thanks for watching!
I've been building my dream wet/dry/wet recording rig for the past few months and the greatest challenge has been routing and buffering (you know, the fun stuff!). My advice is simple: have a clear goal in mind. Don't spend any money until you're 100% sure you know what you want. You *will* need custom cables, so plan your physical layout very carefully.
Is the juice worth the squeeze? For me, absolutely. But, it's a matter of preference and, it's a hell of a commitment. I knew what I was in for going into this. FWIW, my rig provides 4 outputs: clean, dry, and a toggle between stereo (wet + dry) and stereo (wet/wet).
Another Great Video 🎸
Great informative video Mason...you're a veritable treasure trove of information! Thanks!
Listened with headphones and seems like the W/D/W has the most clarity...kind of like a Dolby 3.0 Home Theater ! :)
Thank you so much for watching! I hope we've earned your subscription!
Great job! Young guitarists are
discovering the superior technology of yesteryear:-) Finally, someone who understands that the "normal amp" doesn't magically become "wet" just because you added another amp earlier in the chain.
I'd also add (hope it didn't miss it in the video) that with the cab sims, IR loaders and modellers (even the HX Effects) you can add the IR or speaker simulation before the wet FX and run into PA or FRFR for the wet side. This mimics the dry amp being mic'd as you can see in Larry Carlton's rig or the 90's Landau mentioned above. For a lot of people who want to try W/D/W using two PA speakers or monitors could be more accessible than additional two guitar amps. It's easier to manage with the quiet stages and arguably it sounds better too as the fx fidelity is not compromised by the inferior guitar speaker.
While I have a 15U W/D/W rack loaded with a couple of Lexicons, Eventide, SPX900, TC1210 etc routed by Sound Sculpture Switchblade I travel with Synergy Syn-1 running XLR into Boss SE-70 in a tiny half-rack setup. Syn-1 output can run into any amp return for the DRY and SE-70 can run into two guitar amp returns or PA for wet. I then switch the cab sim on/off on the Syn-1 based on what it's plugged into. It's somewhat cheap, sounds great and is more compact than most pedalboards.
Thanks for watching! I hope we earned your subscription! Yes, good point on the powered monitors. I'm doing a wet/dry/wet rundown of my own pedalboard soon, and this is going to be one of the possible set ups that I will use using the Line 6 powered monitors - but really any monitors would do. The Synergy is a cool product, hope it catches on more with players. The idea is great!
Vertex Effects yes you did! Ironically the first time I heard about you was from Landau but that’s water under the bridge now.
@@ondrejholiencin8555 from the rigs I was building for Landau?
Thank you guy ! very interesting video !
Our pleasure! Hope we earned your subscription!
Awesome brother!
Thank you! Cheers!
Wet/dry/wet is so much accurate and clean!! Great Video Doc \m/
Glad you dig it! It's a super cool set up!
Thanks for creating this vid, very useful indeed
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice. While I had isolation loops, the line mixer was missing from my multi-effected refrigerator rig of yore. There’s a certain something the limitations of the ‘84 rig lends to sound and workflow that I’m absolutely in love with.
When I switched to electric from classical around then, the gear, and the knowledge, was “unobtania.” Thank you so much for the schematics.
And it all ends up stereo… I think of this in terms of what I’m inspired by, and what the listener hears.
Cheers, Daniel
Thanks Mason. A super informative video. It feels like there is a real shift again towards larger setups with chorus and circular delays etc 😊 Finally!! I made a W/D/W rig at home and the huge sound is just so much better than a 1x12!! You never go back! I recently got your Ultra Phonix pedal too which is stunning. The best ODS style pedal I've ever used (and I've tried most!!). Best wishes, Philip in the UK
Philip - thank you so much for the kind words! I certainly hope we earned your subscription! I'm so glad you dig the Ultra! You have to now try that in tandem with the Steel String post Ultra, that's 99% of what I use is those two pedals :)
@@VertexEffectsInc Hi Mason, you're welcome. Quality gear and the effort you've put in to produce these videos deserves a shout out. I've already subscribed 👍 The Steel String is on my radar!!! So is your Songbird when its released so i can pretend I'm playing a Dytronics cs5 or Songbird 😊. Keep up the great work. Beat wishes, Philip
@@pip1972 So glad! The new MKII is great, and small, like 1/3 smaller than our normal pedals. I will keep working on the Songbird! Hope to release it this year!!!
Really great video. I now understand why many people who build presets for Helix run the dry guitar (tone shaped by boost/overdrive/amp/cab sims) straight to the output with the wet effects in parallel. I heard someone from Line 6 say this is how the pros do it with real gear. I never understood that statement until now. This video gives me an idea. Recently I got a REVV D20 amp to integrate with my Helix. I'm using it a little differently than I've seen others who have added a D20 to their Helix rig. I'm using the D20 as an amp/cab block (Helix send ---> D20 input-->D20 XLR ---> Helix return) and then I apply wet effects in stereo after the D20 and send the stereo output to powered FRFR speakers. It sounds great. But what I might try is adding another speaker cab which is driven by the D20 directly. So the FRFR's are my wet and the speaker cab is the dry. The D20 is so versatile.
Seems like you answered my question in a previous comment below. Thanks again
Got to yours nonetheless :)
Thank you for this informative video.
🥳🥳🥳 thanks for watching! I hope we earned your sub!!!
I ran a we-dry-wet set up for a while but decided that until I have a roady it is just too much work to set up, and given the sound at most shitholes I play in, it never really came through properly... but it does sound great at home
Great Vid! My fundamental challenge is the volume level of the dry vs the volume level of the mix. In my noodling around depending on the song adjust this level to heavy on the wet side to a lighter wet mix. I only currently have been doing the TPS version but after this vid am interested in playing with this more but my ear/playing keys off the dry signal so I would have the same challenge of wanting to control the volume levels dynamically
Give it a try, let us know if you have questions!
Good explanation, thanks. I am still a rack-lover (after 20 years). Even today in the times of all-in-one-multiFX modeling boards. My racks are stereo (not w-d-w) simply because it's easier to handle. I want to add an aditional configuration for your schematics that I missed in the bradshaw system. I build my vintage rack with three stages in mind:
1st stage: Serial effects before the amp in the looper.
2nd stage: Parallel effects with a line mixer.
3rd stage: Auxiliary path for send effects.
My tascam line mixer has an aux send that allows me to send some (or all) parallel signals (dry, chorus, delays) into the reverb. That allows me to have reverb on e.g. the dry signal and delays and leave the chorus/pitch effects dry for a near and wider sound stage.
The mixer also allows me to lower all parallel effects with one dial without changing the level of the dry signal. Very convenient in a live situation.
Sounds like a dream!
@@VertexEffectsInc I can paste some photos if you are interested. Your a the rack professor! :-)
Mason What you do is Awesome!!! I have one of the Nyle Compressors in my Rig and It's what was missing for my clean sounds !!
Amazing! I'm so glad! It's a great pedal!
Awesome vid!
Glad you enjoyed it
Makes me think of an early Ampeg amp the B-12-X / B-12-XY / B-12-XT (there were a few different models) which had a spring reverb that went to a separate horn speaker in the cab. It also had an output on the back for a satellite speaker that was the wet-only spring reverb. Sounded glorious especially when you put the two speakers on opposite ends of the room!
I bet!
Great vid man! Started running a Wet/Dry/Wet rig and it was pretty easy doing it with a Tech 21 PSA 1->Stereo IR pedal in back of rack with one out going into->Digitech GSP 2120 and then 3 D.I. box signals. At a gig recently was crazy fun hearing those wacky Digitech fx hard panned and totally wet!
Rock on!
Great job man, real deal!
Appreciate it! Hope we earned your subscription!
Vertex Effects 💯. You set the bar really high. Thanks for the great work!
I’m currently using a 94 5150 Amp w/ a 71 Marshall 4x12 & 2- Katana Mk2 50 Amps Left & Right just for their Power Amp Ability’s. I plug into a Boss EVH SDE 3000 Delay Box/ Pedal. Hook it all up & Its Massive ✅👍😎. I also purchased in 94 from Bob Bradshaw himself a Line Out Box. Thank YouSo Much from MickCotton BBQ on RUclips. Cheers 🥂 Los Angeles CA. 😊
most excellent Mason!
Thanks for watching Brent!
I'm a big fan of the Wet / Damp setup using 2 different amps. You get some of the great advantages of pairing two different amps together, with the "dry" effects coming through both amps, and the time/modulation effects coming through only one amp except just a bit of Stereo Reverb coming through both to tie it all together.
That sounds cool!!
love the EJ hot licks in the end! that dvd/VHS is fucking legendary! my favorite SSS player
The best! My favorite era EJ tone!
Ok now. That was an excellent video. Very informative. I had no idea how involved those rigs were back in the day when I was growing up. I also like that you gave TPS recognition for what they preach and the diagram you used. I use the wet/dry rig as explained on TPS. I run my vibe and OD before my tuner then go from the tuner into a Lehle A/B/Y. One path goes through a rack mount BBE Sonic Maximizer to my Fender Michael Landau Sig amp and the other path with modulation/delay/reverb goes to the other side of the Sonic Max then to an AC15 then to my volume pedal so I can blend in the volume of my “wet” amp. I really love the way it sounds doing it this way. So what do you call the TPS version? Moist/dry? Thanks for sending the link for this video in response to my comment. I think I’ll subscribe.
Donald, I glad you dug it! I think it's more aptly described as dry/wet + dry - however some may prefer the double entendre of "moist". Thank you for the support.
Awesome!!! Thanks for clarifying this for me! What do you think of trey anastasio’s new wet/dry/wet rig bob bradshaw designed? Treys rig rundown from this year is definitely cool!!
Very cool rig!
Great Videos. I watch all your video's. They are the best on youtube. I have somewhat of a challenge for you. How about a in depth video on running wet/dry/wet using a Kemper Profiller as (dry) and Axe Fx ll for all wet. That would be extremely useful for a large group. Keep up all the great information. You are the best! I am going to pick up the Collider for my wet/dry/wet amp setup. Can The Capture X be incorporated in a wet/dry/wet set up?
Great suggestion!
I so wanted a Bradshaw System when I was a kid. Awesome video. Thanks! I can appreciate a WDW rig but no need for my way of playing. However, I do use an ABY switcher to mix 2 amps of different flavors. Thanks again, keep em coming. Love it!
Thanks for watching! I hope we earned your subscription!
@@VertexEffectsInc Holy cow. Subscribed on my other acct. now subscribing on this as well. Ps. The square plugs are the bomb! Thanks.
@@getransistor Best in the BIZ! Thank you so much!
Dear Malcom,
very interesting episode. I play wet-very-wet, since I am constructing my Pedalboard for LIVE and Recording
I am using a MusciomLab EFX-LE for a Wet-DRY-WET+Dry
It has three outputs ISO, L and R and a built-IN splitter including a phase invert knob for the ISO out, which feeds the dry amp, which is set to close before breakup. You can place the ISO OUT at ether point of the Chain, so you can have a wet-dry-wet or a wet-dry-wet+dry setup.
For me I found the second version more suitable…
The L and R Outputs are Connected to a Helix X-Stomp, where I can Dial in a suitable power amp with or without cabsim… to feed either a Stereo amp setup on the stage, go right int the mixer, to have the wet channels on the FOH, directly into my interface in the studio by using the ampsims of the Helix or, when I just need a Wet-Dry setup, pulling one of the stereo cables out f the pachtbox at the end of my chain. The patchbox is designed to merge the stereo-signals to mono in that case. So I have all the options in on case.
This year MuscomLab will launch an upgrade of its fantastic loopswitcher, i deeply recommend, because it has all you need for that… 2 buffers, phase-invertable iso out and flexibel routing.
Greets from Hamburg.
Herbert sounds cool, I know the unit, I don't completely see how it's w/d/w, but I'm sure it sounds great. I have a Musicom as well - they're great.
@@VertexEffectsInc you can split, wjhereever yu want. You can root the ISO UT before or after the volume loop, then you can choose in which order the loops will go. I split usually before the time based effects. The wet signal then goes out to L and R.
In the manual it is shown on the last page.
Thank you for the time and effort putting this together!! When you put the audio together for the demonstration, the “split” version had more of the delay repeats present. Couldn’t you adjust those to make them less pronounced or even less repeats? To make the two demos more close.....thanks again!!
1) you're welcome, I thought it would be fun to show the arc of the Wet/Dry/Wet idea. 2) Both are the same exact signal path, same parameters only the delay and reverb aren't kill dry, and serial, not parallel. Same number of repeats. The guitar was re-amped through both systems, all dry pedals the same, all wet settings the same in the HX effects. One of the benefits to a true wet/dry/wet system is you can make it much wetter without the delays becoming overpowering because you can acoustically mix the amount of the 100% wet effect you want in parallel with the dry cabinet. This isn't possible with the split system in the way that people are calling "wet/dry". I think what you've pointed out illustrates this trade off. Conversely, in the room, I would say this is less pronounced. When it's close mic'd however, and the amps are doing two different things sonically on the L (dry) and Right (dry and wet) it certainly doesn't sound as balanced. My suggestion is to do the test yourself with your gear and see what you prefer. If you need more pointers on materials other than what I spoke of here, please feel free to email me.
Very informative and helpful. Thanks again! 🙏
👍👍👍
great video ,very interesting topic.First time I learn about the wet dry wet sound history.To my ears the wet dry wet sample at the end sounds best to me.Almost like it lets the actual tone of the guitar be heard more prominently.
Thanks Ramon! Appreciate you watching and for the comment! Hope we earned your subscription!
Video just started but you already got my thumbs up, just because.
Thank you so much for watching! Hope you dig the video!
Awesome video! I'm a Helix floor user and I hope Line6 will make a dedicated W/D/W output section in the coming Helix2 including 3 XLR outs. You can use existing outputs, but it robs some of your routing options though. I love that I can do so much routing inside one box, not needing so much cabling and extra stuff to carry and repair ;-)
🙏🙏🙏 thanks for watching
I love putting a mic on my dry tube combo, then adding some effects at the mixer through to some powered speakers.
It sounds incredible even with just the included Yamaha effects but you can use pedals too.
Sounds great!
Thnx Brother very well explained
John Rodriguez 🥳🥳🥳
I hope everybody understood from the video and the diagrams that a W/D/W system in 90% of the time is a regular stereo system with an added dry cab in the middle. You have dry signal in all three cabs. That way you can have the interaction between the effects some people ask about. Some guys like Steen Skrydstrup runs all units in parallel and only effects in wet cabs. Landau for live used only reverb/delays in parallel for his W/D/W. In studio he used his big stereo rack system feed by a mic pre for recording. Then you record the dry of the mic and a stereo track from the rack, and you have W/D/W. The benefits of running a system like this in a studio is that you can rebalance the level of effects in the mix, or remove them all together. Live you can control the mix of effects in the PA without changing levels on stage.
Perfectly said 👌
Great video and insight.
Off topic but any update on the pedalboard production yet?
Any day now we'll have up the pricing and the release date!
Thank you for straightening this out. One thing that comes to mind is how Mike Landau does this today. From what I have seen, it looks like he uses a wet / dry set up. One amp dry, one amp wet. The signal splits at the LA Sound Design P1into the Strymon delay all wet and so either the Strymon Blue Sky, or the Subdecay Reverb which also allows blending the effect. Am I right? Personally I pretty much go mono these days, similar to Robben Fords set up. Thanks Mason and stay safe🎸
Göran Dahlgren This is a more accurate description of how Michael Landau is sitting up now, although I’m not building current rigs this philosophy is the same: www.vertexeffects.com/blog/vertex_michael_landau_wet_dry_pedalboard
As soon as I saw Bradshaw/Lukather setup I smiled. Saw Toto in 2019 for the first time and Steve Lukather's tone in concert was literally the same as the album
Awesome! I think by 2019 Luke was already away from the rack thing and just a pedalboard based system, but still great tones there!
Great video
I've been using the TPS method for a while now with drives going to an RV-5, splitting off to Traynor Darkhorse, and continuing through a delay and chorus into a Bandmaster. I like not having the wet effects in the amp that compresses more. I haven't had any polarity issues yet, but was considering a box that would give me ground isolation and polarity.
Is the RV-5 not a reverb? That would be putting Reverb into both amps, meaning you'd have some wet both amps, just more we in the one that had the Delay and Chorus. It might be an interesting experiment for you to try Wet/Dry/Wet or Wet/Dry and compare it to the split mono system you have now and see what sounds best in your context. There is a less expensive line out box made by Bray that you can check out LO-1 I think it's called.
amazing !! thanks
Thanks Julie! Hope we earned your subscription.
Great video! Years ago, I used a Boss DD-3 with the direct out going to a Princeton Reverb, and the other going to a Peavy Classic. I use to do the Brighton Rock thing by Brian May. What do you think of the "Wetter Box" by Daniel S.?
This is more of the split mono system I was talking about. The wetter box is a parallel mixer, but I think you can only put one pedal in it, mono or stereo. It wouldn’t work for a wet dry context the way the line mixers would in the format that’s it’s in.
I use an amp with a parallel FX loop with nothing in the return. So it's a little different. I think it takes like 5 instrument cables and 3 speaker cables to do. I've been lucky or ignorant with phase issues so far.
The signal goes from the amp head's preamp out the loop into a stereo tremolo (Gig-FX Pro Chop) and stereo delay thing (Empress Echosystem), into a stereo tube power amp (Peavey 50/50 or ADA T100S), out to two vertical 2x12's (ADA split stack). The center cabinet is an old 1960a 4x12 with creambacks and greenbacks, and the ADA cabs were made for this sort of system back in their day. They've got a funky Celestion in them.
Using the tremolo is cool but there's a handful of ways to route the signal with it for different sounds. With it in the FX "loop" it means your outer cabinets will get tremolo, either in mono or stereo depending on whether you use 1 patch cable or 2. In mono it works okay like a normal tremolo but your center amp's signal is unaffected so it's a bit different. In stereo it gives a roto/Leslie kinda effect, but you've still got an unaffected center channel. You could put it out in the front of the signal chain or do some other neat things with it as well though.
The Empress has the ability to go fully wet but I don't usually go that far. I like it for the ping pong delay and it has a really nice plate reverb, plus a decent stereo chorus, flanger, a looper... It's got speaker emulation so you could run a dry center amp and just use the PA for your wet channels.
The center amp also has a little reverb on it usually so overall I'd call it damp/moist/damp or something. Gigging though I either wouldn't use this often or I'd get a modeler to do it all without all the crap to carry.
Sounds like a cool rig!
This nailed just about every question I had about W/D/W. Fantastic. Thank you! Now to wire it up and annoy the neighbors.
Amazing! Hope we earned your subscription?
Vertex Effects already a subscriber, big fan already!
TheDeskChicken 🥳🥳🥳
Amazing content! Looking at the signal blender for parallel gain stage and a junction box mixer for parallel delay reverb going wet dry wet. And hopefully running a delay in series before and a reverb in series after will have the versatility and sound I hope it will!
Check out the Parallelizer from Musicom!
I run w/d/w with a line out to a rack fx but that wet out into two powered monitors. Works great, no guitar power amps or speaker cabs required.
ive been running a wet dry wet system since 88 and you covered this topic really well.may suggest hte radial line mixer and aby pedal.for these systems they are perfect.phase flip ground lift etc . i used to dream of boxs like radail make nowadays back in the days.
Great video thanks for clarifying that! I'm setting up a rig atm for similar and wasn't sure how to kill dry signal.
My question: For a live situation, using 1 amp, and amp simulation in stereo.. how would you approach this? Ie with DSM Simplifier / iridium to run wet effects and then a dry signal going to the amp to be mic'd and sent FOH.
Thoughts are dry to amp so can get crunch from it which is what it does best, and then have WET signals go to FOH in stereo. Keeps rig compact using only 1amp and enables me to utilise wet effects through slightly different amp settings (limited phasing) while keeping WET signal the same each side. How I would of done it, I think it would of been a Dry, Wet Stereo + Dry and may have caused some phasing issues. Appreciate your thoughts / feedback mate.
Potential signal flow...
Guitar into dry pedals > amp > Amp effects Send into Simplifier Line In > Wet Pedals in the Stereo Effects Loop then out to FOH.
Another option is there are 4 lines out of the Simplifier so other other option was to see if I could get adry signal that way, but that would then go to the front of the amp maybe .. or effects return in the back. Figured the sound would be too processed prior to going into the amp losing the good immediate tone.
Look forward to hearing from ya!
Cheers ✌
The Kill Dry will be done on the pedals themselves, and not all can do it...so just be aware of that. Check your manual to ensure that your pedal can go 100% wet (aka Kill Dry). Not sure on which version of the Simplifier you have, but the basic things you need are: 1) Dry signal with at least your dry pedals and preamp, power amp, and speaker/cab sim as channel one (mixed straight up the middle on your mixing board). 2) Left wet signal with at least your preamp section (but also power amp section if possible) but with no speaker or cab simulation on it feeding the left side of your stereo wet effects. 3) Right wet signal with at least your preamp section (but also power amp section if possible) but with no speaker or cab simulation on it feeding the left side of your stereo wet effects. Ideally the wet effects feed a power amp and speaker simulation before they feed the mixing board and you hard pan them L and R in the mixer.
Hi Mason! I was wondering if you could go more into detail in how you would put your wet effects in a parallel mixer for example the rjm mini line mixer? And if you must have an effects gizmo for it to work?
From the looks of it you’re just feeding the returns into the mini line mixer, assuming the pedals are 100% wet. The effects gizmo is used so you so you can turn devices on and off by muting the inputs using the send to the wet effects that occupy the effects gizmo.
Nice video I never thought of it this way. I am running 2 studio silver jubilees wet in stereo through the effects loop and a mark v35 dry both ran into a radial twin city aby. What would this be considered?
I only ever run multiple amps together when recording, but when I do I intentionally use different amps with wildly different headroom for the wet/dry split. I just love the overlapping textures and gain structures - but it's definitely not a pristine Dann Huff clean tone!
It doesn't have to be the classical wet/dry/wet to sound good, that's for sure. Plenty of good tone to go around and many ways to "skin a cat" as the old saying goes.
Great video! Generally speaking , in a wet-dry-wet set up, how do you go about deciding which amp should be dry and which amps should be wet? (Should the wet amps be similar in EQ?, Should the most “full” amp be dry? Etc.) Thanks!
wet amps should be linear. No real color. The dry amp preamp is where the tone is really coming from.
Good video. I first heard of wet/dry from that pedal show and so I primarily associate the wet dry technique with how those guys would define it. I think this video is a really good history of wet/dry and helps us to understand how the technique began and developed over time. I'm not sure that the TPS guys are doing it 'wrong' I see it as an adaptation and furthering the technique, as you demonstrated it has changed over time so why can't their way be the next step in it's evolution? I see the TPS method (not that it's exclusively theirs) as a sort of hybrid between a straight stereo set up using 2 different amp for different flavours, and a more efficient approach to achieving wet dry with regards to what equipment you would need etc. There was obviously a huge sound difference between the 2 clips, and in this instance I preferred the 'true' wet dry sound, however I am assuming you didn't adjust the effects to better suit the TPS definition of wet dry? This would in some way make it sound worse than 'true' wet dry as I don't think many players using that method would run a 'wet' pedal at 100% mix apart from on specific occasions therefore to some extent the tones being compared are not actually that comparable... Anyway, still a great video! I'm sure there are more things that you and the TPS guys agree on than you disagree on so lets focus on those instead!
Those are good points, James. I think Mason did a good job referencing how the TPS version of "dry / wet + dry" can also be thought of as really two mono signals being played at the same time.
BTW - Like you, I like the TPS version best, because I have found that all amplifiers on their own shine in one particular area of the frequency spectrum. Yet, through the blending of different amps, I have really found a depth to my overall tone that I never had before. Thus, I think I would take the wet/dry rig system to another evolution further from Mason suggests here, and create a system that melds Mason's true definition of wet/dry to TPS's version.
For example, I am currently running the TPS version of dry / dry + wet with wet effects going into a Fender Pro Junior IV, and my dirt, compression, and fuzz going into the Fender Pro Junior IV and a Fender '57 Champ. These amps aren't being pushed, and I am using pedals to get a diversity of tones that are big sounding and easy to record. The sound is really huge, and whenever I A/B to each amp independently, either clean or pushed with pedals, it's just not the same fullness of sound that I get when running them together. Anyways, based on this video I'm now thinking about buying two more Fender Pro Junior's to act as independent wet paths. Meaning, the dry sounds I am using will still have the fuller sound of the Pro Junior and '57 Champ running together with compression, dirt, and fuzz; while the wet sounds of my rig will be sent to two Fender Pro Juniors in stereo.
I love guitar gear!
@@AdventuresinBackpacking seems interesting but i can' t get It. Do u use 4 Amos?
Really great video super helpful! Question for you I am trying to build a W/D/W rig using 1 tube amp + Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander. The signal flow I was thinking was below. Is there anything wrong with my thought process? The thing that is throwing me off is the attenuation/volume control of the Waza Expander, I don’t know if that overcomplicates things, but I want to be able to control the room volume using it while being able to push the amp.
Dry signal - Guitar > Amp > Waza Expander > speaker cab
Wet Signal - R/L Line Out of Waza Expander > stereo effects > power amp > 2 speaker cabinets
Use the line out of the Waza I mono to feed your stereo wet effects that feed your power amp and your wet cabinets.
I think what you're doing is great, Mason. Thanks for this. Question for a Wet/Dry rig- I have MusicMan 210-65 combo for the wet and a VHT Classic 18 (cheap dark vox clone)for the dry...I'd be impressed if you've heard of it. I also have an Xotic Effects X-Blender, which I think counts as a parallel mixer. The MM doesnt have an effects loop. I also have a 2x12 New Vintage speaker cab. I see your point about TPS's version not necessarily matching the "correct" terminology. And I give you a lot of credit to the way you acknowledge both interpretations. I just want a rig that sounds good lol. Subtle. Based on my list, do I have the right tools? Any feedback I'd be grateful for.
Patrick, You don't need to have an effects loop in both amps to do the Wet/Dry thing. You could use your VHT fx loop return as your power amp input, and then use your Music Man as the Dry. You will need to get a line out box like I suggested, but you can then have your wet effect in your parallel mixer, the X Blender, however I think it only has one loop so you could only have one 100% wet effect in parallel, probably delay would be the way to do it to get the vibe of it and see if you like it versus The Pedal Show "split mono" way.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks so much for the reply, Mason! You're damn diligent. Okay, good to know. You're right about the one loop w/ the X-blender...any chance you know of another product that could add one or two more isolated loops to pair with it? Appreciate your insight
The Glory of Love!!! Man!!! That tone!!! Awsome!!!
Yessir!
Thank you for the video. I just bought a Vox Custom AC30 Head and 2x12 Cab so I could do a two amp set up with my Marshall. Still trying to decide which set up to go with. Been leaning toward a wet/dry dual mono set up.
You really could do it with just one amp and use a cab simulations for the power amp/cabinet/mic for the wet side.
@@VertexEffectsInc I thought I might also experiment with the iridium. Thanks again!
@@IndyRockStar You can do wet/dry with the iridium, just use the left output for the dry channel, then feed the right channel to your wet effects and have those split to stereo for the L and R wet. I think both channels coming out of the Iridium are the same image.
Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. I like the old blood but it doesn’t have efx send levels, only return. I can see where this would be required but to capture trails you’re better off controlling the sends. Also unsure if it does stereo.
Great video! How much dry would you (they) usually mix in the outer wet cabs ? Ala EVH, Steve Stevens etc sound. I usually use 40-50% dry in outside cabs. Thanks
It's really all to taste. A lot of it was just to really get a stereo image like we would now with pedals that have dry in them but with studio gear that was return only/100% wet.
Cool video Mason....
Wet dry wet- pretty deep..... I
Want build my first rig, any Idea on what the Mermen or Aquavelvets were were using on there rigs?
Cheers Tim- Lawrence Kansas
Thanks for watching! I don't know, but if you find out let us know!
I run 2 amps - orange rockerverb and a Vox AC30C2X - i was initially going for a wet/dry using an amp detonator/splitter with dry to the orange and wet to the Vox - but now I use the EHX Tri parallel mixer to the splitter then both amps in stereo.
The two amps sound killer to me as a left/right - the orange is dirty and the Vox keeps the highs.
I liked the wet/dry setup but every venue took some tweaking to get right - now I just set my mix at rehearsal and I’m good to go for anywhere.
Wet/dry/wet just seems like overkill for the small bars we’re playing - lack of stage space and setup times / packing in / packing out but our outdoor shows would be killer wet/dry/wet - might have to get another Vox and try it out
Great Video Mason. I have a question about splitting the guitar signal. Im doing something similar in that I am using a Sampson SM-10 rack mount line mixer. However Im running my guitar final into distortion and compression then to a split through a ABY radial splitter, then running parallel into a delay on onside and a Reverb on the other, them mixed together via the Line mixer, and output or summed Left and Right to a Boss Dimension C, then off to the amps. Should I be using a boss pedal to do the split because it is buffered, or will the ABY splitter work fine? Thanks Darren
Uncle Mason, I need some help. I'm trying to figure out the right power combo for my board. I've got 10 pedals. I built a rig that I really like, I just can't get the power down right. I just want to plug in one cable and turn it all on. The big suckers are the H9, DD-500, MS-3, and HX-Stomp. I have several PSU's lying around, Power 2 plus, iso5, MXR DC Brick, and BBE Supa-charger. Ideally, I could make it work with some combo of this stuff, but I'm not opposed to parting with these and getting something that does what it needs to.
It might be possible, but I think you have an easier time and it would be more efficient to get something like a Zuma
That signal blender looks interesting I have a Radial Switch Bone that I'm incorporating in a 3 combo rig I'm working on Great demo Mason OK what about an expression pedal that ramps in the modulation so you can have slight mod or full out mod For most of my rythmm tones I like a tiny bit of wet where as for most solo work I like more How would you incorporate the exp pedal for something like that Thanks Unc ☺️
I suppose if you have a EXP option for your mod pedals to control mix you could do that, but wouldn't really be a part of the wet/dry thing.
I love this video I have an AX8 but I decided to go back on time, lol
The rig now that I have and I have to try to make work is
Rock Troy piranha preamp
Eleven rack to get soldano and marshall plexi sounds only
A tube mesa stereo 50/50
Boss es-8
And all the pedal most people would use
Wha / driver / phaser, etc
I am using two speakers with stereo connection
My question is, where do I put my preamp and the Eleven rack on this chain?
My question is
You should interview David Torn. He has a unique way of mixing in his effects and would be very educational. Thanks again for posting
Sounds good, do you know him? Connect us?
@@VertexEffectsInc No, but he does have an instagram. He did two videos on sound design back in the shred days Painting With Guitar and has played with many of the top experimental forward thinking musicians.
@@tbgtbg6311 I think my bud Henry Kaiser knows him, I'll ask.
....Interesting stuff. I used to run a version of this when I was a touring musician in the late 70's/early 80's. 2 amps (left to rt - Lab L-5, 212 combo, Marshall 100 watt 1/2 stack 4x12 slant cab) Yamaha analog delay (stand-alone unit - not a 19" rack) Roland space echo, 2 on-off button/pedals for the chorus/echo & a Dunlop Wah pedal that I didn't use all that much. I used only 2 guitars for pretty much everything for the entire tour (71- Les Paul Custom & a Charvel parts strat H/S with floyd bridge) Was actually an EZ system to configure...Lab L-5 was the wet amp & the Marshall was dry/main amp (both were mic'ed) Marshall was set lower vol vs. the Lab. I actually played at a lower volume with this setup than when I was using just 1 Marshall box head & slat cab. There was no channel switching on the amps then like there is today. Turn down for clean & up for everything else. Worked well enough. The Music of the day suited this setup (Van Halen, Motels, Loverboy, Babys, Cheap Trick, etc)...Later, when the Whitney Houston, Howard Jones & Sade stuff crept in the setlists, I had to make a true wet/dry/wet system that was EZ/fast to assemble, was dependable & didn't break the bank. Pretty much the same setup but smaller with Ch. Sw. combo amps like the Rivera Fender twin (or same like Hughes & Kettner) & F-X's were now digital 19" rack or pedal stuff & the only new addition was an always-on compressor for that shimmering clean tone. Back then, DDL's had 3 outs (FX, Main/dry & Invert) those 3 outs went to the 3 combos (or if I didn't need that much, just 2 amps using FX & Dry out) Back in those days I traveled with 3 amps for 2 reasons. If I needed it all for big venues or if I did not - as backup units. Anyway, it all sounded pretty good to me & we made better money then than now. Today, I still have my tube amps but I use a Mesa Mk-5, 100/112 combo more than anything else & I have an old Jackson tube pre-amp in a rack-box that's in reserve for venues where I have to "Plug-in to house" (no onstage cabinets) which is not the best situation as you're at the mercy of the house sound guy & some of them are total amateur Gen-X clowns with heavy college debt & an attitude problem ....But there's my story. Cheers!!
Your guitar sounds much better than the others.
Huh?
Hi, very interested in setting up a w/d/w rig. Need some guidance. I have a 5150III combo amp. Looking to hook up a Harmonizer with a power amp and two additional cabinets. Not sure what else is needed. Also, need a flowchart on what goes where. All the I/O's can get very confusing. Is their a reference point in the video that I can follow? Lastly, don't want to break the bank, but recommendations on Power amps.. $500 or lower range. Thanks for your time.
So can I use a 1x12 with my 4x12? I have a line 6 and my dry amp would be a Bray Plexi.
Or should I use the same style amp? Or does any 1x12 combo work?
I have a line out box.