@@preciouspayne723 she left because some people said that Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident as well and They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. So i can understand why she left her ATC career
The fact that it all works is astounding...The entire system is on the edge of disaster constantly. The pressure for ATC, pilots and crews is intense... USAF veteran.
@@SuperLordHawHaw absolutely. we have computers more than capable of handling this, and yet everyone is just like "nah, Suzy is doing just fine with her notepad and broken radar". I mean, we have computers handling 90% of the flight, lets have computers handle 90% of traffic control.
@@flyingtentacle7631Agree, but it needs to be implemented with much caution. AI would do much better and can change everything in a blink if there was some accident, say a plane loses a wheel when landing. Though at the same time I have seen automation cost everything going wrong as well. Think of why cars are not allowed to drive without a human behind the wheel.
@philiplubduck6107 That is very true. There were test pilots testing a planes anti stall system on an Airbus if I remember correctly. They were so sure of the system that they did the test at only 4000 feet instead of 20000, where they'd have more time to correct a problem if there was one. They deliberately put it into a stall, thinking the anti stall would correct it, but it didn't, and they crashed, killing both pilot's and the engineers on board. They trusted the automation too much.
Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident. They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. This is what caused Her to leave Her career. She knew first hand the type of pain & loss the families of the Victims felt. The trauma & grief she must feel to this day is unimaginable. May all the Victims, their Families & Robin find peace ❤️
What a classy little note, Bobby. It's important to support people who go through this kind of grief, and we can only hope it helps in some small way, knowing they're not alone. If we can't share our feelings and humanity, what's the point of it all? Well done, girl. Cheers.
I want to know what is going on with all the "small plane" air crashes. One in Blairsville Ga and the next year one in Wisconsin. Seems small planes are being targeted.
@@Realpersonfr8 right, go off and do exactly what she did without stressing, stay calm under too many flights to handle, light blocking a large portion of the runway, some of the equipment not working and lets see how calmly you handle it and focus on
The overloading of the controller system cannot be ignored for ANY reason. This is at its root a business decision setting the stage for disaster. At some level in some meeting somewhere, all those lives were put at risk for the satisfaction of a finance spreadsheet. That’s the real culprit and it is tragic. I work in high pressure situations with some serious stakes but never, ever do they include people’s lives. Regardless, my employer hires me expressly for my ability to find problems in the system, and is eager to address my concerns for ‘safety’ immediately, cost be damned. How that basic process failed at a major airport with lives at stake is beyond me.
some people said that Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident as well and They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. So i can understand why she left her ATC career
Prior to ~ 1977 or so, the airlines (and, I suspect, the whole system) was treated as a public utility. Perhaps some aspects of the former setup need to return???
The sacrificing saftey for profits (and the slashing of wages and job layoffs) is due to the tendency of the rate of profits to fall towards zero, that triggered deregulation in the 80's by Reagan and Thatcher. The restoration of profits after a significant downturn is always at a lower rate of profit prior to the downturn. The rate of profit in the 1890's was a very healthy 43%, by 2015 it was 17%.Today it is around 12%. That is why so much wealth is being hoarded by the 0.5% of the population, as there is nowhere to invest. There are much better methods of exchange that make corruption, war and rampant inequality impossible that requires a sane educated populace to take on board and act accordingly.
I don't know whether she was a hero or not, BUT I do know that the Koch brother was a POS for not trying to help his fellow man!He found a way out an did not bother to share that information with anyone else or try to help anyone else. Disgusting!!!!!!
I feel so much sympathy not just the passengers and crew of the two flights, but for Robin as well. She had more planes to deal with than anyone should have, and in less than favorable conditions. I don't think she was a bad controller; LAX had an average of 1.5 near misses A MONTH at the time of the crash due to becoming too busy, and controllers had told the LAX officials they were understaffed before the accident. Not only that, but her view of part of the runway was obscured due to the light tower producing a glare, and her ground radar was not functioning that night either despite the controllers asking repeatedly for it to be repaired. This was bound to happen, Robin was just the poor soul it happen to. She did the best she could with what she had, but the conditions were more than a human being could handle, and other people lost their lives because of it. Just tragic all around.
That should also not be the case. As soon as you multitask your focus is decreased on the primary task. ATC should only be focused at ONE thing and not talking to anyone. That is also the fault of the disaster. She was not to blame, the system, interruptions and a financial spreadsheet was the main cause.
I know for a fact I wouldn’t be able to do it. The fact that these controllers have millions of peoples lives in their hands and one mistake can lead to one or more planes crashing into each other or etc and killing or injuring tons of people is just to much of a brain overload for me. I thank GOD for the people that are able to handle these controllers bc I love to fly but being responsible for planes of people coming and going and keeping them alive and safe just isn’t my cup of tea
The unique guilt Robin must have to bear…I have no words 😔 she’s one of only a few other people in the world to make such a mistake and it in itself, and the isolation, must be inhumanly painful. All the layers of this accident are all so tragic.
It’s awful and someone else commented that she had lost her parent in a plane crash 14 years prior. She understands the pain of the families so so well. It’s horrible. I hope she is ok.
@@marklebert22on that you're just wrong. Flying is safer than any other form of transportation. The reason you don't think so is because crashes are major events that get lots of news coverage because they are so very rare. So they get lots of coverage, but your odds of dying are much higher traveling by car.
I’m so pleased to see everyone has compassion for Robin. My heart breaks for her. I hope she found peace. A reminder that having mercy and compassion is a good thing.
It was "technically " Robin's fault. But it clearly wasn't her fault alone. She was too overloaded for the type of work she was to do, with not the right equipment to do it. May she find some sort of peace, as I'm sure this haunts her every day.
some people said that Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident as well and They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. So i can understand why she left her ATC career
It's not even "technically" her fault. Any airline failure that has zero fail safe, is a failure of design, not of mechanics. Notice how most crashes are the result of several systems failing in rapid succession during the worst possible scenario. Yet, this was able to happen due to one slip up by one person. It shouldn't be an option to have a single point of failure. The number of incidents at LAX was already a blaring alarm that this was going to happen at any moment, yet the alarms were ignored because money.
@flyingtentacle7631 You are right about the money. Greed, does that too you. And the thing is, fixing the problems is waaaay cheaper than the lawsuits that inevitably will come after a crash.
I think the number 1 cause of this tragedy is not enough controllers for the heavy traffic at LAX. #2, is old outdated and unreliable equipment. #3 is poor visibility of the runways. I don't blame Robin. I am glad things eventually got improved, but probably more is needed.
No, they had the right amount of controllers. Any more and it creates that much more confusion. The ground controllers at LAX also have it far worse than the locals. Sorry, but she was working a normal shift and made a fatal error. It was most unfortunate, but it was just tragic human error. The Sky West pilot also erred, but it was her job to keep everyone safe in that instance. I do not judge her, but it does fall to her. I do hope she found peace.
@@etherealbutterflyyeah, my opinion as a former Level 5 facility employee. It is what it is. There are jobs, processes, and cadences meant for the exact staffing that is there. More Better
I thought I wanted to be an atc. Took the test a long time ago, but didn't pass. I was going to take it again when the time came, but changed my mind. It's a very stressful job.
I've always heard that being an air traffic controller is one of the most stressful jobs on the planet. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone does that job, God bless 'em. Imagine going to work every day knowing that if you make one mistake, dozens or even hundreds of people could die. Glad there are people willing to do that job, because I know I couldn't!
Have you been to LAX, its surrounded by prime real estate and the ocean...can't go to the right, thats Marina Del Rey, can't go to the Left that's Manhattan Beach.
@Deborah Martin the airport in Osaka , Japan . Kansai Airport is all man-made over a bridge onto a man-made island 🏝. I've heard it's sinking though slowly. It's a pretty cool place to fly into... but yeah LAX doesn't have anywhere to expand.
@@deborahmartin1450 you need to look at what is West of LAX. The Ocean at LAX is open Ocean and the Ocean Bottom falls to quickly to even build any runways. The the fact that you would have to have a break wall to stop wave erosion also limits the possibilities to build a runway.
Few seconds in seeing Robin having to lean over and squint, it was easy to understand exactly the issues before it unfolded. Really harsh to put it on her shoulders when so much was piling against her to helping navigate the air traffic, from not being able to see properly, getting distracted, faulty equipment, poor excuse of a tower, overloaded, etc. I'd personally put the blame on LAX for not properly managing one of the business airport not just in the US, but one of the busier ones internationally.
I was landing at LAX in 2015 and I didn't know it at the time, but our landing was aborted because of a runway obstruction and it was pretty intense. The airplane had to use full power to get back up into the sky.
@@Freethecommons same thing happened to me. Was landing there for our honeymoon. As we went straight up, the other plane was right on side of us. We were landing, another plane was taking off on the same runway
Uh, yeah, that's what they do. An aborted landing requires the input of full power. Always. Doesn't matter if it's a runway issue or crosswinds or floating. Full power. That's how flying works.
It's tragic, but I am glad to see the investigations being taken to the fullest degree to avoid another disaster from taking place because of these factors as much as humanly possible. They're doing great work. Rest in peace to the victims.
If it wasn't Robin sitting there, it would have been another controller. This type of accident was inevitable with all the incursions occurring. And as crappy as it is, she was the one sitting in the seat, doing the best that could be done.
@@MeninodeValpoiabsolutely agree, and she should have paid double attention to that aircraft, because she instructed them to HOLD on a runway, I would have thought any aircraft crossing a runway, should hold SHORT of the runway, until instructed to cross, not HOLD ON THE RUNWAY ITSELF…..
@@monkeybaath2325 Correct Sir. What you say is absolutely correct. Some controllers or their supervisors are in a hurry to go home, without even the replacement coming on duty. The results are catastrophic.
Man I could not do that. My heart would be wrapped around my throat every Minute of of that working day. I would probably be an alcoholic. My hat go off to those air traffic controllers.
Who was head of the DOT at the time? Should be mandatory to have adequate number of ATC's and if not then traffic has to get reduced. HIGHER UPS not doing their job. Putting revenue ahead of people.
Over 20 years ago I was almost in the same situation as this accident. I was flying to Atlanta via American Airlines (AA)for the COMDEX computer show. As soon as we touched down, a couple seconds later the engines went full power and the plane pulled up at a 45 degree angle and banked left. People were screaming, the overhead bins popped open and stuff fell out and after a few minutes we leveled off. One of the pilots came on the speaker and said "Sorry about that folks, a puddle jumper was crossing over our runway and we were forced to abort our landing or we would have drove right over them." We landed safely and were getting off at the gate. We almost all died and there was no one from AA to meet us to see if any was injured or needed help with connecting flight as we were like 20 minutes delayed from the ordeal. I finally got to my hotel, the Holiday Inn Express. I was checking in and I just started crying and my hands were shaking so bad I couldn't sign the check in papers. The lady at the desk asked if I was all right. I said we had an aborted landing a little while ago and almost hit another plane. The lady got kind of snotty and must have thought i was bullshitting her because she said"Well that happens sometimes". Then a man said sternly "NO IT DOES NOT HAPPEN SOMETIMES" I turned to see our pilot, copilot and a couple flight attendants standing to my left. The pilot then said " Its true, we had to abort our landing, i was the first officer on that flight. The AA crew were all very nice and talked to me and I got calmed down and they wished me a good day. I got to my room,unpacked, took a long hot bath to relax and later went downstairs for supper. The two pilots were being seated near me and said hi, then they asked if they could join me, i said sure. We talked about a lot of thing, where I was from, what was i in town for, etc. We had a great dinner and they even paid for my dinner.
@@debbiegiles9144 you can't judge if a piece of information on the internet is true or not without anything to back it up, but it's okay, how cute, isn't it?
I was one of the delayed flights at LAX when this happened. Was flying from Seattle to Orlando and we had a layover at LAX on the same plane. They refused to let any of us continuing passengers off the plane and we were stuck there for two hours. The crew never told us what was going on. Newly boarding passengers didn't even know. It wasn't until we landed in Orlando and my dad picked us up at the airport and told us what had happened.
This could have been prevented if ALL of the equipment needed by the controller were in prime working order. Since those decisions are made by people way above the controller's rank, my suggestion is to CLOSE the airport until ALL nonfunctional equipment has been repaired and/or replaced, as well as, removing all items blocking the controller's view.
Lack of contact with a plane disturbed her concentration and to reestablish that was vital because they might have been the ones in danger. To regain that concentration, her two main help systems were taken away from her: 1) her eyes by the floodlights, and 2) lack of ground radar. On top of that, an inhuman and unforgiving schedule with very little time between flights. Those controllers worked magnificently against a system that was massively stacked against them for there to be so few catastrophes.
She did give permission to land however many more circumstances contributed to this accident. Not entirely her fault. I am glad the NTSC LOOKS AT EVERYTHING and hopefully avoid more and more accidents
Actually this accident was avoidable and it was entirely her fault. I remember this accident well. I was a flight instructor in California when it happened. Since this accident occurred aircraft are no longer permitted to take off on runway intersections at LAX. They have to use the full length if the runway. She cleared the commuter aircraft to position and hold on the active runway while also clearing to the US Air aircraft to land on the same runway. At night its extremely hard to see another aircraft on the runway your landing on with all the taxiway and runway lights illuminated. As sad as this was, she was responsible for this tragic event.
@@geea8509 All accidents are avoidable, and it was not entirely her fault-she was task-saturated, and asked to do more than was safe with outdated and malfunctioning equipment, and an all-but-sabotaged visibility corridor. Yes, she failed in her duty, but eventually someone else would have anyway, for the same reasons. Even you admit that since this accident, takeoff procedures at LAX have been revised. Since this accident. And many updates to both equipment and procedures were made that should have been made long before. Even before this accident, LAX was notorious for near misses-were they all her fault?
@@shane99ca Being "task saturated" is par for the course at LAX, ATL, ORD, DFW, and JFK. and all the other very busy hubs. This is why controllers with experience are assigned to these environments. We can use more airports to solve the problem of high air traffic volume at these busy hubs. We need another airport here in Seattle but all the local municipalities have said no. Its the "not in my back yard" crowd that will always oppose this. The reality is air traffic at busy airports all over the U.S. is hitting critical mass and controllers have to work with this environment. I don't mean to sound callous, but she bears the ultimate responsibility regardless of work load. You cant clear an aircraft to land on a runway that's occupied by another aircraft. This was a horrible tragedy. There's no passing the buck here because of the evening rush at LAX.
There is a genuine hero in this episode. Actress Jacquline Pillon, who plays Robin Wascher, received a bravery award and the Order of St John for saving a drowning man. She also has a black belt in karate and used to fight in tournaments.
This has almost happened six times in the past few months. Including Austin my hometown. Also, I have family and a place in the Canaries. I fly a lot and I am a pilot and I am always scared.
It happened on my Southwest flight to Tampa. The pilots had to do a go round after they were forced to abort the landing because of an aircraft. that didn’t clear the runway fast enough. they didn’t say which aircraft it was. You could tell that there was something wrong and you could tell that they were a boarding the landing.
What a horrific way to die. At least their suffering is over but that of their families and other survivors with catastrophic injuries will never end. Even the air traffic controller has to wake up every single day knowing the part she played, albeit unintentionally. All her tools weren't working and those problems had been noted by the the FAA. My heart breaks for her, as well. 💔🙏😢😔 Terribly, terrible tragedy for all involved.
You are the only honest poster on here ! This woman screwed up completely and as the findings of the investigation declared, it was human error which caused the accident.
I feel so sorry for everyone involved... The poor passengers and crew that didn't make it and the ones that did. The families of everyone there. Robin, everyone in ATC and all the workers getting people out. This was caused fully because of the workload being too high and the equipment being lacking. I'd also like to mention that David Koch should not feel guilty for not going back - he wouldn't have made it with that smoke. There's no use losing another life when it won't give any pay off... I'm glad he found a way out as well.
Ten years after this crash, my wife and I were returning from IAD Washington D.C. to LAX Los Angeles. When we were landing the pilot announced we needed to go around because there was an obstruction on the runway. Immediately, I thought about this crash. That flight was my second time on an airplane. My first flight was to Washington D.C. I didn't fly again until my son took me to Hawaii last August. Those flights were uneventful in both directions. Thank God.
2023 sounds like many problems still occurring at many airports, plenty of near misses going on, it’s just a matter of time before another one happens!
Knew someone on the US Air, made it out. Changed forever. The other element was that the Skywest was on the runway without its strobes and landing light on. The US Air flight might have seen them if they were lit up.
I hope Robin eventually got some peace and is living a normal life. RIP to all who lost their lives in this horrific accident. Puttingvall the blame on the controller is wrong . The blame is the over load on her by the airport and the loss of radio contact with other planes that took up the time for her to reassess the situation. But I can say I will never complain about a bad day at work. That night here will be hard to beat. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@den264 ok the air traffic controller who was in command when the worst collision in history happened was a man so clearly men are not that good he got over 500 people killed
Many things have changed for the better but some things still happen. A few years ago an Air Canada jet almost landed on the taxi way at San Francisco where there were four planes waiting to take off. He came within I think it was 14 feet from missing the tail of one plane. That would have been the worst disaster in US history had there been such a crash..
It's still a very safe airport. I have been living in Playa del Rey for over 30 years and have not heard or witnessed any accidents in the time I've lived there. I could see them take off headed west over the pacific ocean. Love living there!
I was born in Hawthorne, CA in 1955 and lived there until having to move to Colorado in 1988. I loved cruising around Sepulveda Blvd and in Playa del Rey.
God Bless all involved. We’re it not for this accident air travel may still be without the safety measures. Like so many safety improvements brought on by accidents. Bless you all.
This is pre-GPS for everything, right and computerized controller logistics in real time. Even with hi-tech controller gear, I can't imagine the control tower's minute-to-minute demand for attention and accuracy at LAX.
I don’t know if it’s weird or or not that I have been binge watching these types of videos I watched one clip like it was 5 mins and now I can’t stop watching lol
Can't set an employee up for failure then be surprised when they fail. Lax failed and continued to fail. Humans can only do so much and idgaf what people say I feel awful for the controller. Scapegoat.
Of course, companies setting unrealistic expectations, and acting "less than ideally" when foreseeable consequences from those expectations occur, seems to be a beloved thing to do...
Per NTSB report AAR9108: 11 controllers, 1 manager, and one supervisor were scheduled that night. The staff on hand that day: 4 controllers, one "developmental controller" and one supervisor. A tragic accident at an understaffed airport and in order to remedy the situation all it took was: -A new control tower that isn't blinded by ground lighting -Replacement ASDE (Airport Surface Detection Equipment) -New progress strip system in the tower -Additional personnel for controller support -Enforcing consistent use of lights already built into planes -And an experimental fully automated runway light system I'm thankful they made these changes, but imagine walking away from your career because of an accident and seeing what it took to finally make things right. How many other jobs are out there that are still like this? Nurses? Doctors? Construction?
Now when you watch live LAX streamers like Airline Videos Live you can see the changes implemented. It took a serious accident like that for the airport to run. But there are still entrances and exists sitting around LAX which poses continued threats.
“Muh money” is all people will gripe about when the system needs to be upgraded. It really SHOULDN’T be relegated to JUST a major city, but it took a disaster to make them spring some money forward.
Always impressed with how thorough these investigators are. It would have been easy for them to use the controller as a scapegoat and close the case. Instead, they kept looking for every contributing factor and today we are much safer as a result.
This was scary and tragic on all levels, and I agree with the outpouring of sympathy not just for the victims and their families, as well as for Robin. But with the responsibility of also safely landing other incoming planes and the departure of outgoing planes, can you imagine the people having to see the burning wreckage as they're arriving or leaving? Overall anxiety levels for LAX passengers must have been astounding.
If you put people under that kind of pressure and stress for hours on end day after day, what else do you expect. Clearly the airport is too busy and they need another LA airport. Also the controllers were insufficient in number for that amount of traffic. Such conditions is just begging for a collision. 🌵🌵🌵
As is often the case, it comes down to GREED. Too many planes. Not enough runways. Not enough tracking personnel. Improper repairs. Etc, etc. Just sad that life has to come down to money so often.
FAA rules make it hard for the controllers to innovate. Even to this day, many American airports use the paper slips shown in this video. While other places sometimes have aircraft controller work from home using advanced software.
@@den264Don't let the fact that there were already multiple incursions at LAX slip away. That combined with a known unreliable and broken radar system, this was a disaster waiting to happen. Of course, it's far easier to blame one individual rather than fix the expensive systematic issues, and narrow-minded comments like this one just serve to perpetuate this.
That's right, she told Metroliner to hold short because another aircraft will be crossing 24L, but instead, it landed on the same runway. She mixed up runways or forgot all about Metroliner that should not even be there, on this runway.
she told one plane to hold on the runway for another plane to cross and gave clearance to the plane landing, AKA two planes on the same runway, possibly three. she forgot planews and caused it. She was found responsible and shouldve been in prison for the deaths she caused.
I hope from now on all towers have assistance worker for verifying first worker’s lists for more safety and less stressful. Pray for their improving work. 🙏🏻🇺🇸
I remember that night. My house was just 5 blocks north or 24R. When the US flight crashed on top of the skywest, on 24L, it sounded like a bomb went off. The house shook so hard, thought airport facing window was going to shatter. That buildng that was hit was the old fire station. Within a couple of days, DOA wa quick to paint over the aircraft paint scrapes over the building. The strewn parts were moved to an American airline service hangar. The tower at the time was too short. They could not see the backside of the Tom Bradley International Terminal buildin. That building was built in a big rush to meet the need of the 1984 olympics. For the ATC, was another big obstruction of their view. After the accident they built the new tower 3x taller than the old one and more of a central of airport location. That is why they have 2 towers to this day.
Same thing, now in 2024, Tokyo. This proves that measures and technology to improve safety only helps us increase the risky behavior (by increasing volume of flights per controller in this case)
I have seen a sadder crash. There was an episode where a passenger plane and a cargo plane collided. Most of the victims who were killed were children. One man lost his entire family and put the blame for their deaths on the air traffic controller, who had been utterly devastated by the accident. The man visited the Nephites air traffic controller and murdered him, for which he only received 8 years in prison. 😢
This is truly sad, though I think the smaller plane's passengers were lucky, because most likely they died on impact they didn't know what hit them. It's a cruel thing to say I know, but it's the truth unfortunatelyl..
Good honest post ! It is the victims and the surviving family members who should receive all of our support and sympathy. However, the vast majority of the people posting on this story are more interested in lavishing support and good wishes on to the female controller whos bad judgment and ineptitude caused this crash.
@@den264You are completely ignoring the other factors that were at play in this accident. How is someone supposed to do their job properly if they don't have everything they need working? Do you personally hate Robin? Did she do something to you to deserve your hate? There must be because you are as I said completely ignoring the other factors that played a part in this accident. Seriously, what is wrong with you? I understand that the victims should rest in peace, but don't you think Robin felt awful about the accident?
In 1986 i was on a plane landing at Dallas/Fortworth. We could see the cracks in the runway. All of a sudden, the plane was dull throttle and we were climbing. Our plane had been guiding onto a runway with a departing plane. It was mid day, thank God our pilot saw the other plane and had time to abort
There's roughly 100k flights around the world per day and around 6k crashes per year. Flying is as safe as it's ever been and the odds of being in a crash are extremely low. Better chance in being in a car accident
A system that should be implemented is, a reader board in the control tower, and all planes upgraded to give out their runway aircraft position. Example: When the pilot gets the clearance to move to a specific runway and to hold short on that runway, an LED light comes on in the tower which shows what runway is currently being occupied in front of the controller and that plane's flight number. That light is RED. Once the tower clears the plane for take-off, the LED Light automatically goes out once the plane leaves the ground. I think it can be very useful. Fog, very low visibility, it does not matter, the tower will always know if a runway is being occupied. No more getting sidetracked, or by obstacles. The large flashing Red Led Light will let the tower know which runway is being occupied. One separate Led Light for each runway occupancy. Once off the runway, the LED Light automatically goes out, and automatically turns on with the flight number when a plane touches down; and it stays on until that plane is off the runway. It doesn't hurt to have that added feature. My two-cent thought.
There has to be a balance too, if there's too much info, this can cause safety to decline again due to clutter. It's tough to get right, especially at an int'l airport where so many people have vastly different experiences that molded their common sense. It's like soldiers putting the palm side hand out and up to "stop" a car, but in that country, the "hold" hand gesture means something completely different. As far as tracking, there are multiple methods today including ground RADAR, TCAS (if their mode A/C is turned on which should be if they're on the active plus mode S) and ADS-b ES which is GPS-based, so they have pretty good tracking data today.
I feel like, maybe you don't know what a ground radar is. Because this is exactly what they had. The airplane does not magically know where it is once it touches down. That's why they have the systems they do. Once the place touches down the transponder is useless for everything except the flight callsign. So the only way to get this information is to just use a ground radar. They already had a screen with all the runways and all the planes on it. But it didn't work.
I remember flying out of LAX very early the morning after the runway collision. Because I didn't know what to expect at the airport, I arrived there just a few hours after the collision occurred. Fortunately, traffic getting to the airport was light, and, as I recall, our flight was not impacted, and we left on time, or very close to it. Needless to say, it was a little bit unsettling to have this occur at LAX just hours before I was flying out of there, but what are the odds of it happening again so soon? I figured the odds were against something like that occurring again within several hours.
Wow that had to be really unsettling indeed. I've lived in the LAX area most of my life, and once while flying home in June 1990 with my 2-yr-old, we had an interesting event. Upon approach the LAX control tower was doubtful that our nose landing gear was deployed. So instead of landing we had to fly higher out over the ocean and then come back in while the ATC checked our nose gear. Everybody was quiet while this happened. Thankfully it was deployed and we landed.
Okay, I have another question: why are we still using progress strips? Why aren’t they using a computer screen? It’s clear we had the technology even then, so why keep using the strips?
One thing was not mentioned... Pilots lined-up on 24L could hear on the radio that other plane was cleared to land on 24L ... and I think that 1 minute is to long to wait on the active RNW without talking to controller.. specially on busy airport..
Tragically similar experience of Walter White in 1986. He was the ATC at LAX who was handing the Aero Mexico flight that collided in mid-air with a private plane that strayed into restricted LAX airspace over Cerritos. Calif.
@@JeanClaudeCOCO It was Aero Mexico. I was in the air over Ling Beach Harbor and saw the fireball and thick black smoke just after the impact in Cerritos. t
My uncle was supposed to be on that Skywest plane that was crushed. He was running late from a meeting and missed his flight. He told us that was his second miracle in life. He had been a marine fighter pilot during the Vietnam war. He was shot down while supporting troops and had to eject from his airplane. He was saved at the last minute before being overrun by enemy troops. A helicopter flew in and rescued him at the last second. He lived a full life, knowing that someone was obviously watching over him.
I'd rather drive a 15 year old Ford than trust one of these people. Much less ALL of them, including the total morons, as anyone's seen watching this show more than once.
i stand with alot of the other comments here. i feel terrible for robin. you know she never meant any harm and she was certainley not able to run on all cyclinders through no fault of hers.... i would give robin a huge hug if i could , and tell her "we're only human .... of flesh and blood we're made"
My gosh, I hope Robin is doing okay these days. Such a tragedy, and yes, she made a mistake, but there were other factors, too, preventing her from doing her job properly, such as being able to clearly see the runway from where she was seated. I have no doubt that had she been able to see that plane, she'd have noticed it and not sent another plane onto that runway. May she be at peace, and living out her golden years happily.
HUH? How is she doing?????????????? How are the people doing that she killed due to her negligence and not getting help from her coworkers when they were RIGHT THERE TO HELP HER. How about the families who lost their husbands, wives, daughters, sons, ETC. WHAT ABOUT THEM!!!??? She is breathing everyday, eating, laughing taking vacations, ENJOYING LIFE!!! What is wrong with you??
@@peterjones4621 you can feel for all parties involved. I doubt Robin goes an hour without thinking of it these days. And either way she was doing her job as best as possible with tools that had been reported as faulty but higher-ups had failed to have fixed. It’s very easy to say that she should have asked for help now that we know the result of her actions, but Robin was working under familiar, stressful conditions, and had no reason to believe she would need help. The families of victims are certainly to be felt for, but their grief should not ever be used to attack Robin.
I would have quit the moment a saw the work environment at LAX if i were her. ATC job is stressful as it is, but to have that many planes under control without help of radar or a clear sight of the runways is insane. too risky and stressful.
Although there were other factors involved, it is clear from the information provided that Robin gave both planes permission to access runway 24L because she was distracted by that other plane but she has to live with that horrible memory. And I am surprised that she didn't come forward with her side of the story until during the investigation when she had to.
I'm sure she was counseled by everyone involved (lawyers, union, etc) to wait. Also, these shows make it seem like the investors interview people later in the investigation when it casually occurs to them that they should. That's not how it works: they do it pretty much right away when memory is fresh.
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6😊6643😊66
W 😢@@rickdavis296
Ew@@rickdavis296
😢🎉❤❤❤❤❤😅@@rickdavis296
Im never complaining about a bad day at work again.
Me either Johanna
So said she choose to quit
@@JustinMacri007 why
Or how about complaining how long it takes to board a flight
@@preciouspayne723 she left because some people said that Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident as well and They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. So i can understand why she left her ATC career
The fact that it all works is astounding...The entire system is on the edge of disaster constantly. The pressure for ATC, pilots and crews is intense... USAF veteran.
I agree 100%
It is a system screaming for greater automation. Should have an automated ATC system with humans just monitoring it.
@@SuperLordHawHaw absolutely. we have computers more than capable of handling this, and yet everyone is just like "nah, Suzy is doing just fine with her notepad and broken radar". I mean, we have computers handling 90% of the flight, lets have computers handle 90% of traffic control.
@@flyingtentacle7631Agree, but it needs to be implemented with much caution. AI would do much better and can change everything in a blink if there was some accident, say a plane loses a wheel when landing. Though at the same time I have seen automation cost everything going wrong as well. Think of why cars are not allowed to drive without a human behind the wheel.
@philiplubduck6107 That is very true. There were test pilots testing a planes anti stall system on an Airbus if I remember correctly. They were so sure of the system that they did the test at only 4000 feet instead of 20000, where they'd have more time to correct a problem if there was one. They deliberately put it into a stall, thinking the anti stall would correct it, but it didn't, and they crashed, killing both pilot's and the engineers on board. They trusted the automation too much.
Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident. They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. This is what caused Her to leave Her career. She knew first hand the type of pain & loss the families of the Victims felt. The trauma & grief she must feel to this day is unimaginable.
May all the Victims, their Families & Robin find peace ❤️
Wow, That adds a whole new level of tragedy to this. I hope Robin was able to emotionally recover from all she's been though.
What a classy little note, Bobby. It's important to support people who go through this kind of grief, and we can only hope it helps in some small way, knowing they're not alone. If we can't share our feelings and humanity, what's the point of it all?
Well done, girl. Cheers.
Wow Robin this was not your fault. I know that does not comfort your pain but this was a failure on many levels that you fell victim too.
I want to know what is going on with all the "small plane" air crashes. One in Blairsville Ga and the next year one in Wisconsin. Seems small planes are being targeted.
She probably felt more worse about it because it was partially her fault and the glare and dealing with too many flights.
she was completely overwhelmed
Yep indeed.
Idc if she was overwhelmed, she must focus.
@@Realpersonfr8 right, go off and do exactly what she did without stressing, stay calm under too many flights to handle, light blocking a large portion of the runway, some of the equipment not working and lets see how calmly you handle it and focus on
@@Volkova20759 sure
@@Realpersonfr8Oh GROW 🆙
Its the fact this was a concern way before this incident and nothing was done for the employees. I feel for everyone invovled
The overloading of the controller system cannot be ignored for ANY reason. This is at its root a business decision setting the stage for disaster. At some level in some meeting somewhere, all those lives were put at risk for the satisfaction of a finance spreadsheet. That’s the real culprit and it is tragic.
I work in high pressure situations with some serious stakes but never, ever do they include people’s lives. Regardless, my employer hires me expressly for my ability to find problems in the system, and is eager to address my concerns for ‘safety’ immediately, cost be damned. How that basic process failed at a major airport with lives at stake is beyond me.
some people said that Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident as well and They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. So i can understand why she left her ATC career
You can thank ex president Reagan for the lack of qualified air traffic controllers
Prior to ~ 1977 or so, the airlines (and, I suspect, the whole system) was treated as a public utility.
Perhaps some aspects of the former setup need to return???
The sacrificing saftey for profits (and the slashing of wages and job layoffs) is due to the tendency of the rate of profits to fall towards zero, that triggered deregulation in the 80's by Reagan and Thatcher. The restoration of profits after a significant downturn is always at a lower rate of profit prior to the downturn.
The rate of profit in the 1890's was a very healthy 43%, by 2015 it was 17%.Today it is around 12%. That is why so much wealth is being hoarded by the 0.5% of the population, as there is nowhere to invest. There are much better methods of exchange that make corruption, war and rampant inequality impossible that requires a sane educated populace to take on board and act accordingly.
I agree with Reagan.those patco was at .fault. Federal employees aren’t
To strike
I have low regard for patco
That female airport cop is a true hero, she tried to save everyone in the plane crash, God bless all the victims
Hero is an exaggeration.
@@ceebrown8157who are you bro
Who are you@@vflowerswifeyy
I don't know whether she was a hero or not, BUT I do know that the Koch brother was a POS for not trying to help his fellow man!He found a way out an did not bother to share that information with anyone else or try to help anyone else. Disgusting!!!!!!
I feel so much sympathy not just the passengers and crew of the two flights, but for Robin as well. She had more planes to deal with than anyone should have, and in less than favorable conditions. I don't think she was a bad controller; LAX had an average of 1.5 near misses A MONTH at the time of the crash due to becoming too busy, and controllers had told the LAX officials they were understaffed before the accident. Not only that, but her view of part of the runway was obscured due to the light tower producing a glare, and her ground radar was not functioning that night either despite the controllers asking repeatedly for it to be repaired. This was bound to happen, Robin was just the poor soul it happen to. She did the best she could with what she had, but the conditions were more than a human being could handle, and other people lost their lives because of it. Just tragic all around.
@@tyroneepps3209 😂
@@90blacknight i agree. she have had a assistant to help her out that night.
Women I knew it would go wrong once’s I see her
@@supernash1601 As if a man wouldn't have done the same
I have zero sympathy for Robin. None. It's her literal job and she failed. Simple as that.
I would melt like wax trying to multitask while responsible for planes full of people.
That should also not be the case. As soon as you multitask your focus is decreased on the primary task. ATC should only be focused at ONE thing and not talking to anyone. That is also the fault of the disaster. She was not to blame, the system, interruptions and a financial spreadsheet was the main cause.
I know for a fact I wouldn’t be able to do it. The fact that these controllers have millions of peoples lives in their hands and one mistake can lead to one or more planes crashing into each other or etc and killing or injuring tons of people is just to much of a brain overload for me. I thank GOD for the people that are able to handle these controllers bc I love to fly but being responsible for planes of people coming and going and keeping them alive and safe just isn’t my cup of tea
The unique guilt Robin must have to bear…I have no words 😔 she’s one of only a few other people in the world to make such a mistake and it in itself, and the isolation, must be inhumanly painful. All the layers of this accident are all so tragic.
It’s awful and someone else commented that she had lost her parent in a plane crash 14 years prior.
She understands the pain of the families so so well.
It’s horrible.
I hope she is ok.
It just shows why I don't fly it's just too dangerous
@@marklebert22 It's 200,000 times more likely you will die in a car accident than you will in a plane accident.
@@marklebert22on that you're just wrong. Flying is safer than any other form of transportation. The reason you don't think so is because crashes are major events that get lots of news coverage because they are so very rare. So they get lots of coverage, but your odds of dying are much higher traveling by car.
Bullet train operators are next on the list of imbeciles who manage to cause major disasters thst are preventable.
I’m so pleased to see everyone has compassion for Robin. My heart breaks for her. I hope she found peace. A reminder that having mercy and compassion is a good thing.
It was "technically " Robin's fault. But it clearly wasn't her fault alone. She was too overloaded for the type of work she was to do, with not the right equipment to do it.
May she find some sort of peace, as I'm sure this haunts her every day.
some people said that Robin lost both her parent's in a presumed plane crash, 14yrs before this accident as well and They took off to go to Her sister's graduation in their private plane. But disappeared & were never found again. So i can understand why she left her ATC career
It's not even "technically" her fault. Any airline failure that has zero fail safe, is a failure of design, not of mechanics. Notice how most crashes are the result of several systems failing in rapid succession during the worst possible scenario. Yet, this was able to happen due to one slip up by one person. It shouldn't be an option to have a single point of failure. The number of incidents at LAX was already a blaring alarm that this was going to happen at any moment, yet the alarms were ignored because money.
@@flyingtentacle7631 Then there is the other SkyWest plane that lost contact with the tower due their own screw ups.
Oh o😢😢Ko l,
@flyingtentacle7631 You are right about the money. Greed, does that too you. And the thing is, fixing the problems is waaaay cheaper than the lawsuits that inevitably will come after a crash.
I think the number 1 cause of this tragedy is not enough controllers for the heavy traffic at LAX. #2, is old outdated and unreliable equipment. #3 is poor visibility of the runways. I don't blame Robin.
I am glad things eventually got improved, but probably more is needed.
Jhon stossel did an episode addressing these concerns
we're using tech from the 60s purely because the bureaucratic system refused to update itself
No, they had the right amount of controllers. Any more and it creates that much more confusion. The ground controllers at LAX also have it far worse than the locals.
Sorry, but she was working a normal shift and made a fatal error. It was most unfortunate, but it was just tragic human error. The Sky West pilot also erred, but it was her job to keep everyone safe in that instance. I do not judge her, but it does fall to her. I do hope she found peace.
@@rehobythat’s your opinion.
@@etherealbutterflyyeah, my opinion as a former Level 5 facility employee.
It is what it is. There are jobs, processes, and cadences meant for the exact staffing that is there. More Better
@@etherealbutterfly Its fact.
I thought I wanted to be an atc. Took the test a long time ago, but didn't pass. I was going to take it again when the time came, but changed my mind. It's a very stressful job.
Nooo thank youuuu! To much responsibility! Humans lifes beings!
Do they do a stress test or some kind of multitasking test or how do they test for that kind of job?
I've always heard that being an air traffic controller is one of the most stressful jobs on the planet. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone does that job, God bless 'em. Imagine going to work every day knowing that if you make one mistake, dozens or even hundreds of people could die. Glad there are people willing to do that job, because I know I couldn't!
Just an interesting fact....LAX after all of these years still has 4 runways. I live in Detroit, our airport has been expanded to 6.
Have you been to LAX, its surrounded by prime real estate and the ocean...can't go to the right, thats Marina Del Rey, can't go to the Left that's Manhattan Beach.
No where to expand except ocean!!
@Deborah Martin the airport in Osaka , Japan . Kansai Airport is all man-made over a bridge onto a man-made island 🏝. I've heard it's sinking though slowly. It's a pretty cool place to fly into... but yeah LAX doesn't have anywhere to expand.
@@aiccorp6001directly to the South of Los Angeles International Airport is El Segundo and to the North is the community of Westchester.
@@deborahmartin1450 you need to look at what is West of LAX. The Ocean at LAX is open Ocean and the Ocean Bottom falls to quickly to even build any runways. The the fact that you would have to have a break wall to stop wave erosion also limits the possibilities to build a runway.
This accident is tragic but improvement was made to make it safer
Few seconds in seeing Robin having to lean over and squint, it was easy to understand exactly the issues before it unfolded. Really harsh to put it on her shoulders when so much was piling against her to helping navigate the air traffic, from not being able to see properly, getting distracted, faulty equipment, poor excuse of a tower, overloaded, etc. I'd personally put the blame on LAX for not properly managing one of the business airport not just in the US, but one of the busier ones internationally.
You know this is a reenactment right
@@2434-k3l it’s a reenactment based on what actually happened
Let's also appreciate how well Robin was portrayed. The actress did a formidable job.
I was landing at LAX in 2015 and I didn't know it at the time, but our landing was aborted because of a runway obstruction and it was pretty intense. The airplane had to use full power to get back up into the sky.
@@Freethecommons what? That’s crazy
@@Freethecommons same thing happened to me. Was landing there for our honeymoon. As we went straight up, the other plane was right on side of us. We were landing, another plane was taking off on the same runway
Uh, yeah, that's what they do. An aborted landing requires the input of full power. Always. Doesn't matter if it's a runway issue or crosswinds or floating. Full power. That's how flying works.
Standard go around. No big deal
@@hagen1305 that was close
It's tragic, but I am glad to see the investigations being taken to the fullest degree to avoid another disaster from taking place because of these factors as much as humanly possible. They're doing great work. Rest in peace to the victims.
Investigations of this scenario won't make a difference, no way they want to pay-out for more staff and maintenance of radars.
If it wasn't Robin sitting there, it would have been another controller. This type of accident was inevitable with all the incursions occurring. And as crappy as it is, she was the one sitting in the seat, doing the best that could be done.
A controller cannot afford to forget planes on the runway. This is not a joke. Lives get lost for the improper work of the controllers
@@MeninodeValpoiabsolutely agree, and she should have paid double attention to that aircraft, because she instructed them to HOLD on a runway, I would have thought any aircraft crossing a runway, should hold SHORT of the runway, until instructed to cross, not HOLD ON THE RUNWAY ITSELF…..
@@monkeybaath2325 Correct Sir. What you say is absolutely correct. Some controllers or their supervisors are in a hurry to go home, without even the replacement coming on duty. The results are catastrophic.
LAX is one very busy airport today. May those people rest in Peace.
Man I could not do that. My heart would be wrapped around my throat every Minute of of that working day. I would probably be an alcoholic. My hat go off to those air traffic controllers.
Who was head of the DOT at the time? Should be mandatory to have adequate number of ATC's and if not then traffic has to get reduced. HIGHER UPS not doing their job. Putting revenue ahead of people.
Over 20 years ago I was almost in the same situation as this accident. I was flying to Atlanta via American Airlines (AA)for the COMDEX computer show. As soon as we touched down, a couple seconds later the engines went full power and the plane pulled up at a 45 degree angle and banked left. People were screaming, the overhead bins popped open and stuff fell out and after a few minutes we leveled off. One of the pilots came on the speaker and said "Sorry about that folks, a puddle jumper was crossing over our runway and we were forced to abort our landing or we would have drove right over them."
We landed safely and were getting off at the gate. We almost all died and there was no one from AA to meet us to see if any was injured or needed help with connecting flight as we were like 20 minutes delayed from the ordeal.
I finally got to my hotel, the Holiday Inn Express. I was checking in and I just started crying and my hands were shaking so bad I couldn't sign the check in papers. The lady at the desk asked if I was all right. I said we had an aborted landing a little while ago and almost hit another plane. The lady got kind of snotty and must have thought i was bullshitting her because she said"Well that happens sometimes". Then a man said sternly "NO IT DOES NOT HAPPEN SOMETIMES" I turned to see our pilot, copilot and a couple flight attendants standing to my left. The pilot then said " Its true, we had to abort our landing, i was the first officer on that flight.
The AA crew were all very nice and talked to me and I got calmed down and they wished me a good day. I got to my room,unpacked, took a long hot bath to relax and later went downstairs for supper. The two pilots were being seated near me and said hi, then they asked if they could join me, i said sure. We talked about a lot of thing, where I was from, what was i in town for, etc. We had a great dinner and they even paid for my dinner.
Cute. A lie but cute
@@debbiegiles9144 you can't judge if a piece of information on the internet is true or not without anything to back it up, but it's okay, how cute, isn't it?
I was one of the delayed flights at LAX when this happened. Was flying from Seattle to Orlando and we had a layover at LAX on the same plane. They refused to let any of us continuing passengers off the plane and we were stuck there for two hours. The crew never told us what was going on. Newly boarding passengers didn't even know. It wasn't until we landed in Orlando and my dad picked us up at the airport and told us what had happened.
This could have been prevented if ALL of the equipment needed by the controller were in prime working order. Since those decisions are made by people way above the controller's rank, my suggestion is to CLOSE the airport until ALL nonfunctional equipment has been repaired and/or replaced, as well as, removing all items blocking the controller's view.
Lack of contact with a plane disturbed her concentration and to reestablish that was vital because they might have been the ones in danger. To regain that concentration, her two main help systems were taken away from her: 1) her eyes by the floodlights, and 2) lack of ground radar. On top of that, an inhuman and unforgiving schedule with very little time between flights. Those controllers worked magnificently against a system that was massively stacked against them for there to be so few catastrophes.
She did give permission to land however many more circumstances contributed to this accident. Not entirely her fault. I am glad the NTSC LOOKS AT EVERYTHING and hopefully avoid more and more accidents
Yes. Its function is to improve air safety, not fix blame.
@@shane99ca they do not blame per say however they use the cause to make air travel safer
Actually this accident was avoidable and it was entirely her fault. I remember this accident well. I was a flight instructor in California when it happened. Since this accident occurred aircraft are no longer permitted to take off on runway intersections at LAX. They have to use the full length if the runway. She cleared the commuter aircraft to position and hold on the active runway while also clearing to the US Air aircraft to land on the same runway. At night its extremely hard to see another aircraft on the runway your landing on with all the taxiway and runway lights illuminated. As sad as this was, she was responsible for this tragic event.
@@geea8509 All accidents are avoidable, and it was not entirely her fault-she was task-saturated, and asked to do more than was safe with outdated and malfunctioning equipment, and an all-but-sabotaged visibility corridor. Yes, she failed in her duty, but eventually someone else would have anyway, for the same reasons.
Even you admit that since this accident, takeoff procedures at LAX have been revised. Since this accident. And many updates to both equipment and procedures were made that should have been made long before. Even before this accident, LAX was notorious for near misses-were they all her fault?
@@shane99ca Being "task saturated" is par for the course at LAX, ATL, ORD, DFW, and JFK. and all the other very busy hubs. This is why controllers with experience are assigned to these environments. We can use more airports to solve the problem of high air traffic volume at these busy hubs. We need another airport here in Seattle but all the local municipalities have said no. Its the "not in my back yard" crowd that will always oppose this. The reality is air traffic at busy airports all over the U.S. is hitting critical mass and controllers have to work with this environment. I don't mean to sound callous, but she bears the ultimate responsibility regardless of work load. You cant clear an aircraft to land on a runway that's occupied by another aircraft. This was a horrible tragedy. There's no passing the buck here because of the evening rush at LAX.
I can only imagine how taxing it is being in ATC at a major hub like LAX.
There's not enough money that's worth that stress.
A lot of people couldn’t do that job. I know I couldn’t.
There is a genuine hero in this episode. Actress Jacquline Pillon, who plays Robin Wascher, received a bravery award and the Order of St John for saving a drowning man. She also has a black belt in karate and used to fight in tournaments.
Please explain to me what the actions of an actress had to do with this womans inability to do her job properly !
@@den264bc the ppl in the video are actors. The person was just saying the one playing robin is a hero in her real life
@@den264are u not bright enough to understand that
This has almost happened six times in the past few months. Including Austin my hometown. Also, I have family and a place in the Canaries. I fly a lot and I am a pilot and I am always scared.
It happened on my Southwest flight to Tampa. The pilots had to do a go round after they were forced to abort the landing because of an aircraft. that didn’t clear the runway fast enough. they didn’t say which aircraft it was. You could tell that there was something wrong and you could tell that they were a boarding the landing.
Stubbs BBQ.
Man.. gives new meaning/need to pray for traveling grace.. ish..
What a horrific way to die. At least their suffering is over but that of their families and other survivors with catastrophic injuries will never end. Even the air traffic controller has to wake up every single day knowing the part she played, albeit unintentionally. All her tools weren't working and those problems had been noted by the the FAA. My heart breaks for her, as well. 💔🙏😢😔 Terribly, terrible tragedy for all involved.
Is there a good way to die? Let me know, thats
@@michael-4k4000 In your sleep.
@@michael-4k4000in your sleep..
I can’t imagine the horrible feeling of being involved in an accident where both parties did everything right. It must’ve been horrible
Me messing up at work everyday 🙃 I feel for her and all that were involved
You are the only honest poster on here ! This woman screwed up completely and as the findings of the investigation declared, it was human error which caused the accident.
I feel so sorry for everyone involved... The poor passengers and crew that didn't make it and the ones that did. The families of everyone there. Robin, everyone in ATC and all the workers getting people out. This was caused fully because of the workload being too high and the equipment being lacking. I'd also like to mention that David Koch should not feel guilty for not going back - he wouldn't have made it with that smoke. There's no use losing another life when it won't give any pay off... I'm glad he found a way out as well.
Ten years after this crash, my wife and I were returning from IAD Washington D.C. to LAX Los Angeles. When we were landing the pilot announced we needed to go around because there was an obstruction on the runway. Immediately, I thought about this crash. That flight was my second time on an airplane. My first flight was to Washington D.C. I didn't fly again until my son took me to Hawaii last August. Those flights were uneventful in both directions. Thank God.
2023 sounds like many problems still occurring at many airports, plenty of near misses going on, it’s just a matter of time before another one happens!
Too much fragile pressure on one individual to control the flights causes fatal accidents and this could be a good example.
Knew someone on the US Air, made it out. Changed forever. The other element was that the Skywest was on the runway without its strobes and landing light on. The US Air flight might have seen them if they were lit up.
David Koch was one of the Koch brothers. Richest people in the US.
Yeah, we saw the documentary too .
I hope Robin eventually got some peace and is living a normal life. RIP to all who lost their lives in this horrific accident. Puttingvall the blame on the controller is wrong . The blame is the over load on her by the airport and the loss of radio contact with other planes that took up the time for her to reassess the situation. But I can say I will never complain about a bad day at work. That night here will be hard to beat. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
All the other male contollers work under the same conditions and high pressure, they did not screw up !
@den264 What a rude, unnecessary comment. It could have been a man who made the mistake, it just so happened she was on duty.
@@den264 ok the air traffic controller who was in command when the worst collision in history happened was a man so clearly men are not that good he got over 500 people killed
@@den264 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
She is living a normal life while her victims never got a chance at one
Many things have changed for the better but some things still happen. A few years ago an Air Canada jet almost landed on the taxi way at San Francisco where there were four planes waiting to take off. He came within I think it was 14 feet from missing the tail of one plane. That would have been the worst disaster in US history had there been such a crash..
Crazy how people have to die in order to replace or update the issue.
It's still a very safe airport. I have been living in Playa del Rey for over 30 years and have not heard or witnessed any accidents in the time I've lived there. I could see them take off headed west over the pacific ocean.
Love living there!
You are lucky, playa
I was born in Hawthorne, CA in 1955 and lived there until having to move to Colorado in 1988. I loved cruising around Sepulveda Blvd and in Playa del Rey.
I remember that crash, I was living in Inglewood at that time.
God Bless all involved. We’re it not for this accident air travel may still be without the safety measures. Like so many safety improvements brought on by accidents. Bless you all.
This is pre-GPS for everything, right and computerized controller logistics in real time. Even with hi-tech controller gear, I can't imagine the control tower's minute-to-minute demand for attention and accuracy at LAX.
I don’t know if it’s weird or or not that I have been binge watching these types of videos I watched one clip like it was 5 mins and now I can’t stop watching lol
Me too because of the crashes from 2023 and the Boeing situation this month.
@@vminhope3040 I’m so glad I’m not the only one binge watching these lol I thought I was weird
I could never be an ATC. I cannot imagine the stress they are under every moment of their work day.
love the little bit of video that plays in between all the ads
😂
can confirm LAX has a LOT of traffic
Very busy
Can't set an employee up for failure then be surprised when they fail. Lax failed and continued to fail. Humans can only do so much and idgaf what people say I feel awful for the controller. Scapegoat.
Of course, companies setting unrealistic expectations, and acting "less than ideally" when foreseeable consequences from those expectations occur, seems to be a beloved thing to do...
@thickerconstrictor9037 agree 💯
Same thing in Healthcare. Profits above people. Disgusting.
Who in the WORLD would ever want to do that job 😳
They pay extremely well with great benefits and care to bring out and mental health. And there are people who love it as well.
Thats like being a 911 dispatch
no one
Per NTSB report AAR9108:
11 controllers, 1 manager, and one supervisor were scheduled that night.
The staff on hand that day:
4 controllers, one "developmental controller" and one supervisor.
A tragic accident at an understaffed airport and in order to remedy the situation all it took was:
-A new control tower that isn't blinded by ground lighting
-Replacement ASDE (Airport Surface Detection Equipment)
-New progress strip system in the tower
-Additional personnel for controller support
-Enforcing consistent use of lights already built into planes
-And an experimental fully automated runway light system
I'm thankful they made these changes, but imagine walking away from your career because of an accident and seeing what it took to finally make things right.
How many other jobs are out there that are still like this? Nurses? Doctors? Construction?
Now when you watch live LAX streamers like Airline Videos Live you can see the changes implemented. It took a serious accident like that for the airport to run. But there are still entrances and exists sitting around LAX which poses continued threats.
“Muh money” is all people will gripe about when the system needs to be upgraded. It really SHOULDN’T be relegated to JUST a major city, but it took a disaster to make them spring some money forward.
I frequently fly in and out of LAX. Thank goodness so far there's been no disaster.
I love when i see the pilot or passengers talking praying for the traffic controller i know she sunt but everything happens for a reason
Always impressed with how thorough these investigators are. It would have been easy for them to use the controller as a scapegoat and close the case. Instead, they kept looking for every contributing factor and today we are much safer as a result.
The good old days of flying.🤠 Poorly planned airport's was and is the biggest problem.
Shutout to the actors and the reconstructions of this amazing channel!
Interesting to see Mr David Koch as one of the passengers. My husband used to work in one of his Canadian business operations.
Koch Bros were Uber wealthy. I was wondering if anyone else noticed who that was.
@@meghanmisaliar what I noticed was David never reached out to help is fellow man
I try to avoid flying at night,but for long haul international, it's impossible. But you can get dusk and dawn on each end sometimes.
And now unfortunately a very similar accident to this has occurred at Tokyo’s Haneda airport.😢
This was scary and tragic on all levels, and I agree with the outpouring of sympathy not just for the victims and their families, as well as for Robin. But with the responsibility of also safely landing other incoming planes and the departure of outgoing planes, can you imagine the people having to see the burning wreckage as they're arriving or leaving? Overall anxiety levels for LAX passengers must have been astounding.
If you put people under that kind of pressure and stress for hours on end day after day, what else do you expect. Clearly the airport is too busy and they need another LA airport. Also the controllers were insufficient in number for that amount of traffic. Such conditions is just begging for a collision. 🌵🌵🌵
As is often the case, it comes down to GREED. Too many planes. Not enough runways. Not enough tracking personnel. Improper repairs. Etc, etc. Just sad that life has to come down to money so often.
FAA rules make it hard for the controllers to innovate. Even to this day, many American airports use the paper slips shown in this video. While other places sometimes have aircraft controller work from home using advanced software.
Wrong ! As the investigation proved it came down to human error , nothing more. That female controller obviously could not do her job under pressure.
@@den264Don't let the fact that there were already multiple incursions at LAX slip away. That combined with a known unreliable and broken radar system, this was a disaster waiting to happen.
Of course, it's far easier to blame one individual rather than fix the expensive systematic issues, and narrow-minded comments like this one just serve to perpetuate this.
@@ZambiblasianOgrehe might well be one of those people that presume only a certain kind of person is up to doing critical jobs.
you do realize that ATC isnt company but government. So kinda throws that argument out the window.
I'm confused. Didn't she say hold short 24L when she gave the other plane clearance to land?
That's right, she told Metroliner to hold short because another aircraft will be crossing 24L, but instead, it landed on the same runway. She mixed up runways or forgot all about Metroliner that should not even be there, on this runway.
she told one plane to hold on the runway for another plane to cross and gave clearance to the plane landing, AKA two planes on the same runway, possibly three. she forgot planews and caused it. She was found responsible and shouldve been in prison for the deaths she caused.
Wow!! Rip to all the souls that were lost. 😢
Im never complaining about a bad day at work again.. Im never complaining about a bad day at work again..
I hope from now on all towers have assistance worker for verifying first worker’s lists for more safety and less stressful. Pray for their improving work. 🙏🏻🇺🇸
The guilt of surviving must be horrible in a case like this
can you imagine the guilt of the air traffic
Admirable that such a rich person is flying with national airlines......
The latest runway collision at LAX was only about eight weeks ago.
It boils down to Greed by the Airlines Worldwide!! People are just a number!! Forget the safety of the passengers!! Unbelievable!!!
I remember that night. My house was just 5 blocks north or 24R.
When the US flight crashed on top of the skywest, on 24L, it sounded like a bomb went off. The house shook so hard, thought airport facing window was going to shatter.
That buildng that was hit was the old fire station. Within a couple of days, DOA wa quick to paint over the aircraft paint scrapes over the building. The strewn parts were moved to an American airline service hangar. The tower at the time was too short. They could not see the backside of the Tom Bradley International Terminal buildin. That building was built in a big rush to meet the need of the 1984 olympics. For the ATC, was another big obstruction of their view. After the accident they built the new tower 3x taller than the old one and more of a central of airport location. That is why they have 2 towers to this day.
I remember the strip club in front of LAX😊
Same thing, now in 2024, Tokyo. This proves that measures and technology to improve safety only helps us increase the risky behavior (by increasing volume of flights per controller in this case)
I have never cried this much watching any flight crash investigation… my heart was hurting so much … such devastating crash 😢
I have seen a sadder crash. There was an episode where a passenger plane and a cargo plane collided. Most of the victims who were killed were children. One man lost his entire family and put the blame for their deaths on the air traffic controller, who had been utterly devastated by the accident. The man visited the Nephites air traffic controller and murdered him, for which he only received 8 years in prison. 😢
@ oh no horrible 😭
This is truly sad, though I think the smaller plane's passengers were lucky, because most likely they died on impact they didn't know what hit them. It's a cruel thing to say I know, but it's the truth unfortunatelyl..
May all the victims rest in peace.
Good honest post ! It is the victims and the surviving family members who should receive all of our support and sympathy. However, the vast majority of the people posting on this story are more interested in lavishing support and good wishes on to the female controller whos bad judgment and ineptitude caused this crash.
@@den264You are completely ignoring the other factors that were at play in this accident. How is someone supposed to do their job properly if they don't have everything they need working? Do you personally hate Robin? Did she do something to you to deserve your hate? There must be because you are as I said completely ignoring the other factors that played a part in this accident. Seriously, what is wrong with you? I understand that the victims should rest in peace, but don't you think Robin felt awful about the accident?
In 1986 i was on a plane landing at Dallas/Fortworth. We could see the cracks in the runway. All of a sudden, the plane was dull throttle and we were climbing. Our plane had been guiding onto a runway with a departing plane. It was mid day, thank God our pilot saw the other plane and had time to abort
Yes contributing factors + controller error.
THATS WHY I NEVER FLY AT NIGHT✈️✈️✈️✈️🙏
Because a traffic controller won't do their job?
After watching these videos I told myself also, I will never fly at night again. I hate flying as it is.
There's roughly 100k flights around the world per day and around 6k crashes per year. Flying is as safe as it's ever been and the odds of being in a crash are extremely low. Better chance in being in a car accident
Smart move!
@@AM-ls8sp I agree!
New intro and episode wow wasn't expecting that
Moral of the story: don't get on a plane at night or in poor visibility.
A system that should be implemented is, a reader board in the control tower, and all planes upgraded to give out their runway aircraft position.
Example: When the pilot gets the clearance to move to a specific runway and to hold short on that runway, an LED light comes on in the tower which shows what runway is currently being occupied in front of the controller and that plane's flight number. That light is RED. Once the tower clears the plane for take-off, the LED Light automatically goes out once the plane leaves the ground. I think it can be very useful. Fog, very low visibility, it does not matter, the tower will always know if a runway is being occupied. No more getting sidetracked, or by obstacles. The large flashing Red Led Light will let the tower know which runway is being occupied. One separate Led Light for each runway occupancy. Once off the runway, the LED Light automatically goes out, and automatically turns on with the flight number when a plane touches down; and it stays on until that plane is off the runway. It doesn't hurt to have that added feature. My two-cent thought.
There has to be a balance too, if there's too much info, this can cause safety to decline again due to clutter. It's tough to get right, especially at an int'l airport where so many people have vastly different experiences that molded their common sense. It's like soldiers putting the palm side hand out and up to "stop" a car, but in that country, the "hold" hand gesture means something completely different.
As far as tracking, there are multiple methods today including ground RADAR, TCAS (if their mode A/C is turned on which should be if they're on the active plus mode S) and ADS-b ES which is GPS-based, so they have pretty good tracking data today.
I feel like, maybe you don't know what a ground radar is. Because this is exactly what they had. The airplane does not magically know where it is once it touches down. That's why they have the systems they do. Once the place touches down the transponder is useless for everything except the flight callsign. So the only way to get this information is to just use a ground radar. They already had a screen with all the runways and all the planes on it. But it didn't work.
Damn, that a wacky crazy smart idea it’s almost as if you just explained what ground radar is !
I remember flying out of LAX very early the morning after the runway collision. Because I didn't know what to expect at the airport, I arrived there just a few hours after the collision occurred. Fortunately, traffic getting to the airport was light, and, as I recall, our flight was not impacted, and we left on time, or very close to it. Needless to say, it was a little bit unsettling to have this occur at LAX just hours before I was flying out of there, but what are the odds of it happening again so soon? I figured the odds were against something like that occurring again within several hours.
Wow that had to be really unsettling indeed. I've lived in the LAX area most of my life, and once while flying home in June 1990 with my 2-yr-old, we had an interesting event. Upon approach the LAX control tower was doubtful that our nose landing gear was deployed. So instead of landing we had to fly higher out over the ocean and then come back in while the ATC checked our nose gear. Everybody was quiet while this happened. Thankfully it was deployed and we landed.
Fell sorry for the people on the Skywest Turbo prop being crushed by the 737.
That's Shocking! LAX is dangerous! 😐 Just shocking and unbelievable.
Okay, I have another question: why are we still using progress strips? Why aren’t they using a computer screen? It’s clear we had the technology even then, so why keep using the strips?
One thing was not mentioned... Pilots lined-up on 24L could hear on the radio that other plane was cleared to land on 24L ... and I think that 1 minute is to long to wait on the active RNW without talking to controller.. specially on busy airport..
Tragically similar experience of Walter White in 1986. He was the ATC at LAX who was handing the Aero Mexico flight that collided in mid-air with a private plane that strayed into restricted LAX airspace over Cerritos. Calif.
The Mexicana I believe.
@@JeanClaudeCOCO
It was Aero Mexico. I was in the air over Ling Beach Harbor and saw the fireball and thick black smoke just after the impact in Cerritos.
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My uncle was supposed to be on that Skywest plane that was crushed. He was running late from a meeting and missed his flight. He told us that was his second miracle in life. He had been a marine fighter pilot during the Vietnam war. He was shot down while supporting troops and had to eject from his airplane. He was saved at the last minute before being overrun by enemy troops. A helicopter flew in and rescued him at the last second. He lived a full life, knowing that someone was obviously watching over him.
Don’t clap when the plane touch ground, clap when you are inside the airport.
I'd rather drive a 15 year old Ford than trust one of these people. Much less ALL of them, including the total morons, as anyone's seen watching this show more than once.
god what a hero she is a police officer wow what an effort❤
i stand with alot of the other comments here. i feel terrible for robin. you know she never meant any harm and she was certainley not able to run on all cyclinders through no fault of hers.... i would give robin a huge hug if i could , and tell her "we're only human .... of flesh and blood we're made"
She was working under the same workload and pressure as the rest of the male contollers in that tower. She obviously could not do her job correctly !
@@den264Sexist
I used to live out in LA close to the airport and used to watch planes coming and going
Just toga'd at Burbank last night Ona United flight from Denver. They said there was "traffic on the runway".
My gosh, I hope Robin is doing okay these days. Such a tragedy, and yes, she made a mistake, but there were other factors, too, preventing her from doing her job properly, such as being able to clearly see the runway from where she was seated.
I have no doubt that had she been able to see that plane, she'd have noticed it and not sent another plane onto that runway.
May she be at peace, and living out her golden years happily.
HUH? How is she doing?????????????? How are the people doing that she killed due to her negligence and not getting help from her coworkers when they were RIGHT THERE TO HELP HER. How about the families who lost their husbands, wives, daughters, sons, ETC. WHAT ABOUT THEM!!!??? She is breathing everyday, eating, laughing taking vacations, ENJOYING LIFE!!! What is wrong with you??
@@peterjones4621 you can feel for all parties involved. I doubt Robin goes an hour without thinking of it these days. And either way she was doing her job as best as possible with tools that had been reported as faulty but higher-ups had failed to have fixed. It’s very easy to say that she should have asked for help now that we know the result of her actions, but Robin was working under familiar, stressful conditions, and had no reason to believe she would need help. The families of victims are certainly to be felt for, but their grief should not ever be used to attack Robin.
@@peterjones4621 Are you her ex-husband or something?
@Peter Jones that's a good question Peter. What is wrong with YOU?
@@peterjones4621 Totally agree!
I would have quit the moment a saw the work environment at LAX if i were her. ATC job is stressful as it is, but to have that many planes under control without help of radar or a clear sight of the runways is insane. too risky and stressful.
Although there were other factors involved, it is clear from the information provided that Robin gave both planes permission to access runway 24L because she was distracted by that other plane but she has to live with that horrible memory. And I am surprised that she didn't come forward with her side of the story until during the investigation when she had to.
She’s a coward
I'm sure she was counseled by everyone involved (lawyers, union, etc) to wait. Also, these shows make it seem like the investors interview people later in the investigation when it casually occurs to them that they should. That's not how it works: they do it pretty much right away when memory is fresh.
she got up and left her station just after the accident, and never returned.
@@adotintheshark4848 according to the dramatic reenactment or the actual report? I’d suggest not adding conjecture that doesn’t need to be there.
@@Elirum I stand corrected. Her supervisor sent her home, and she never returned to work.