Extra Credits always says "because games matter." You're right that this talk applies to more than games, and I think that's because the speaker is connecting games to the rest of life, and that connection is what makes games matter.
Very well articulated and easy to understand! I think we tend to underestimate the level of control that companies can exert on the mind through use of algorithmic reward cycles, because people can easily dismiss things related to games BECAUSE they assume all games are meant for children. These cycles can threaten to erode to build up things over time, but it feels like it’s always more profitable to erode and make a dollar more.
Really excellent speech, she clearly understands what her subject matter is about. I've toyed with some MMO concepts that I'll realistically never work on, but it keeps me mulling over inherent problems in balance and longevity in MMO's. While there may not actually be a "solution" to these problems, she describes their dynamics with great fluency.
It’s a bit I think silly to say agency isn’t present. I as a player can choose not to play ea games, which I generally do (not play those games I mean). They’re annoying, so I don’t play them. If they want to compete for my attention, not sure why that’s a problem. They don’t actually get my attention.
@@manwhohasnoname6549 this is a comment from a year ago, so I’m sorry in advance for replying late. Basically, this is what market research and target audience was meant to do. What I mean by that is every product has a target audience, and companies knows these people exists from market research. If you are not interested in their products, that just means you’re not their target audience. But, somewhere, someone else are interested in those products. These are the people these companies are targeting at. And those products, are engineered exactly to “take advantage” (for lack of a better word) of their target audience. (When I say take advantage, what I mean is the product is designed to cater specifically to said audience, whether in a good way or a bad way). It doesn’t matter if you’re not interested in their products, because you’re not the target audience in the first place. The product is not designed for you. But for people that they are targeting for, that product will do well, because that’s who the product is specifically designed for. And that’s how we come to the quote mentioned above, “the promise of profit is not permission for unethical actions”.
The most informative and knowledgable talk I have heard on this subject. Absolutely fantastic ! Was pausing and taking notes every 20 seconds , thank you so much and do guide on more reading material regarding the topic please !
Happy to hear smart people with a voice speaking out against such tactics. Ive been staying away from large companies because the things I witnessed early in my career disgusted me. AIs that could be used to match people by patterns to create strong player bonds in a game are instead cruelly efficient at manipulating you to prevent from leaving, faking wins and losses, and attempting to break the barrier to spend you first dollar. Kids this generation are growing up where every single ad they see, all apps and softwares have high level AI tools solely for the purpose of manipulating them. Its such a digusting waste of potential.
When I quit playing War Thunder, I realized that I actually felt relieved to be freed from the pressure of login bonuses. Long term, games that feel like jobs get dumped like the bad habits they are.
I am so glad MMOs are dead. Fuck every scummy multiplayer designer that wants me to log in everyday. I will log in if I want to and if I'm punished for that I won't play your garbage game.
As someone fascinated by the rise of Genshin Impact, this actually explains very well its success so far. It's like Hoyoverse took a page out of every slide here. Content creator programs, indirect time gating, gacha elements and variable rewards.
"Shared attention = meaning" is almost correct. Shared attention is the vacuum that invites meaning, the space to meaning's matter. If we share our attention on something and find no meaning, we quickly shift it elsewhere. Perhaps "sustained shared attention" is a better concept for, at least, societal meaning.
I fell like that all of these, relationship mechanics, are made to manipulate me to engage, even if this is more ethical. I feel like that all of these games are manipulative. When I buy a game, I want a piece of art not a product....
For all the time she takes to say don't be evil, the "good" ways of doing them still seem pretty evil. I don't think we should be marrying our video games or playing them super long term, especially if they have very little depth or intellectual stimulation. Like people play chess their whole lives, but there's none of these techniques compelling them to do so, they're not going to lose out because they take a month off.
Good talk, but as I were to try to translate this talk, too many context-based contents really frustrated me. Like I don't know what's golden mechanic, or the classic UX phone number example, or I havent played Pokemon game and dont know what pokestop is. And her point was based upon these examples. Also the rant in the middle put me a little bit off - not the point itself but the way how she delivered it, essentially she's "you should do this, otherwise think about the world you fucked up" on the point of "too many people sensationalizing implied risk to drive short-term data", which is ironic.
When I was young game designers where trying to create more sophisticated video games. Now game designers are trying to make more addictive video games. This is due to modern game developers being comprised of artists who know how to use unity engine instead of computer scientists. A modern day example of a game made by a computer scientist is minecraft. The person behind it simply wanted to make a mining game and he made it, meanwhile mobile developers are remaking mario for the 8000th time and adding addictive elements to get 10 year olds addicted to the game
I know this comment is a year old but like what? First of all, that's just a blatantly ignorant general assumption covering countless thousands of people and blaming all of them for the problem you perceive. Second of all, if we're going off harmful stereotypes, if anything artists are the ones trying to make things of creative integrity, beauty and meaning, driven by emotion over reason while programmers would be considered more cold and calculating, crunching the numbers and figuring out the most efficient way to carry out tasks with the least amount of effort. If a programmer consistently does more code than is necessary they are not a great programmer. On the contrary, artist's are in general, the last group of people to care about 100% efficiency though concept artists are outliers in that field. So based off this, it would be the programmer's wanting to ditch artistic integrity and just create something addicting with the bare minimum. But all that said, it's neither's fault. Both want to generally make incredible games. The problem is publishers, the accountants, the money men. All they care about is the bottom line and most studios filled with very passionate artists and programmers who want to make the best possible games they can, are pushed into ridiculous release schedules, underfunded and often underpaid for the hours they put in. You don't know what you're talking about.
This was great until the big moral lecture in the middle. Wish people would just stick to info. We can all go to church or greenpeace meetings if we want to be lectured at about our morality.
Gabriel Gallardo I didn't find this interesting. I would elaborate but I already forgot what this was about. All I remember is that I stopped it halfway cause it was so uninteresting and boring haha. And I am not trying to be rude, I promise. Its rare that I stop a GDC talk like that, not to mention I always remember most of what the speaker was saying, in this case I don't even remember about this, which only makes me assume my brain agrees with me that it just didn't wanna store it in my memory haha. Once again, not trying to be rude. Just being honest. Anyway, as far as GDC talks go like, there is always something for me to take for myself, or learn, if you will... I watched (listened since I am usually doing other stuff when I listen to long talk videos) many talks here from mainstream game dev teams (zelda botw, dragons dogma, etc) to small indie dev teams (owlboy, etc) and I always remember stuff, and learn. Not in this case? Either way, if there was something in it for you, good for you then.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
This is one of the best researched, best articulated GDC vids. She says a lot more in 30 than some people say in an hour.
Blown away with all the information she just dropped. Very informative.
She gives the best and most informative GDC talk I’ve heard in my life
Oh my gosh, I was scared this talk was headed straight into the dark side - but it was totally the opposite! Thankyou :)
It took me like 2 months to finally watch it but I am so glad I have not given up!
This talk was amazing! Thank you Chelsea!
Bump! This holds 5y in... This vod is GDC best collection material.
I really like this! This applies to way more than games, and I think far too many companies and institutions are on the dark side.
chasing the $. The game industry needs an "ethical design" ratings agency
Extra Credits always says "because games matter." You're right that this talk applies to more than games, and I think that's because the speaker is connecting games to the rest of life, and that connection is what makes games matter.
The dark side is short term easy money. In general though, treating your players as cash cows is not a good long term strategy.
WOW! This is one of the best and more thoroughly researched talks I have seen from GDC. Thank you Chelsea!
30 min went through as if they were 3. Thank you for uploading this!
Very well articulated and easy to understand! I think we tend to underestimate the level of control that companies can exert on the mind through use of algorithmic reward cycles, because people can easily dismiss things related to games BECAUSE they assume all games are meant for children. These cycles can threaten to erode to build up things over time, but it feels like it’s always more profitable to erode and make a dollar more.
WOW, what an amazing load of knowledge and my time was well used here.
She is amazing.
Really excellent speech, she clearly understands what her subject matter is about. I've toyed with some MMO concepts that I'll realistically never work on, but it keeps me mulling over inherent problems in balance and longevity in MMO's. While there may not actually be a "solution" to these problems, she describes their dynamics with great fluency.
"The promise of profit is not permission for unethical action." EA and a few choice companies blew this line.
it's a statement to calm the masses and a paradoxon in itself.
It’s a bit I think silly to say agency isn’t present. I as a player can choose not to play ea games, which I generally do (not play those games I mean). They’re annoying, so I don’t play them. If they want to compete for my attention, not sure why that’s a problem. They don’t actually get my attention.
@@manwhohasnoname6549 this is a comment from a year ago, so I’m sorry in advance for replying late.
Basically, this is what market research and target audience was meant to do. What I mean by that is every product has a target audience, and companies knows these people exists from market research. If you are not interested in their products, that just means you’re not their target audience. But, somewhere, someone else are interested in those products. These are the people these companies are targeting at. And those products, are engineered exactly to “take advantage” (for lack of a better word) of their target audience. (When I say take advantage, what I mean is the product is designed to cater specifically to said audience, whether in a good way or a bad way).
It doesn’t matter if you’re not interested in their products, because you’re not the target audience in the first place. The product is not designed for you. But for people that they are targeting for, that product will do well, because that’s who the product is specifically designed for. And that’s how we come to the quote mentioned above, “the promise of profit is not permission for unethical actions”.
I really hope more designers / publishers actually get this message.
The most informative and knowledgable talk I have heard on this subject. Absolutely fantastic ! Was pausing and taking notes every 20 seconds , thank you so much and do guide on more reading material regarding the topic please !
Great talk
Wow. Maybe the best talk I've seen from GDC. THank you!
This was really worth watching especially today, where ethical monetarization and a well-meaning player - developer relationship seems to be a rarity.
What an amazing talk. Thank you Chelsea Howe.
An amazing talk really, and it certainly stands up to time very well.
Best GDC talk I've ever seen.
This is a fantastic talk. Thank you!
This was really good.
I really enjoyed this. Very helpful talk. Thank you Chelsea.
basic psychology stuff, but presented in a clear and good way.
I know zip about psychology so this seems cool.
Happy to hear smart people with a voice speaking out against such tactics. Ive been staying away from large companies because the things I witnessed early in my career disgusted me. AIs that could be used to match people by patterns to create strong player bonds in a game are instead cruelly efficient at manipulating you to prevent from leaving, faking wins and losses, and attempting to break the barrier to spend you first dollar. Kids this generation are growing up where every single ad they see, all apps and softwares have high level AI tools solely for the purpose of manipulating them. Its such a digusting waste of potential.
Fantastic talk. Clear, concise and particularly poignant in today's climate.
Very good talk. Love the insights about relationships, and shared meaning, etc.
How might one find more information on what she touched on in this talk?
Damn. This is one heck of a talk!
One of the best talks!
Really good talk, congrats!
My hunger is not quenched, I seek more of this knowledge
Excellent talk
Amazing talk.
one of the best talks i have seen here!
Great talk!
Love this
Love these videos
Love this channel
This is GOLD!
Amazing talk! Well done
Excellent talk!
This is brilliant!
When I quit playing War Thunder, I realized that I actually felt relieved to be freed from the pressure of login bonuses. Long term, games that feel like jobs get dumped like the bad habits they are.
I am so glad MMOs are dead. Fuck every scummy multiplayer designer that wants me to log in everyday. I will log in if I want to and if I'm punished for that I won't play your garbage game.
This should be required viewing before being allowed to play any game, watch tv or create a social media account.
I don't play many free-to-play games, and would like more examples of their compulsory stimuli.
As someone fascinated by the rise of Genshin Impact, this actually explains very well its success so far. It's like Hoyoverse took a page out of every slide here. Content creator programs, indirect time gating, gacha elements and variable rewards.
This is amazing and science!
"Shared attention = meaning" is almost correct. Shared attention is the vacuum that invites meaning, the space to meaning's matter. If we share our attention on something and find no meaning, we quickly shift it elsewhere. Perhaps "sustained shared attention" is a better concept for, at least, societal meaning.
I think i fell in love
cool
19:20 yes, these things are inherently bad.
What the ff>k its was?
Imagine someone át Disney Seeing that 🤣
I can't hit the like button enough times. Obviously not functioning properly.
I thought this was pretty good.
I couldn't bring myself to be the first person to dislike this due to the preaching parts, SO I Liked it anyway because, well, IT IS amazing!
I fell like that all of these, relationship mechanics, are made to manipulate me to engage, even if this is more ethical. I feel like that all of these games are manipulative. When I buy a game, I want a piece of art not a product....
In the chronicles of Narnia if a talking animal was treated dumb for long enough dumb he would become.
For all the time she takes to say don't be evil, the "good" ways of doing them still seem pretty evil. I don't think we should be marrying our video games or playing them super long term, especially if they have very little depth or intellectual stimulation. Like people play chess their whole lives, but there's none of these techniques compelling them to do so, they're not going to lose out because they take a month off.
Good talk, but as I were to try to translate this talk, too many context-based contents really frustrated me. Like I don't know what's golden mechanic, or the classic UX phone number example, or I havent played Pokemon game and dont know what pokestop is. And her point was based upon these examples.
Also the rant in the middle put me a little bit off - not the point itself but the way how she delivered it, essentially she's "you should do this, otherwise think about the world you fucked up" on the point of "too many people sensationalizing implied risk to drive short-term data", which is ironic.
I think ea skipped this video.
Guys and girls, it's unethical to go the unsustainable route! I'll show you how to hook them forever! 😂😂😂
this has a huge multiplayer/social game bias... what about single player games
this makes me feel like scum for playing games
AKA how to exploit the primitive circuitry of the brain for profit
Nando N That's the opposite what she's advocating.
Tiktok be like
GDC: How to suck your teeth at the beginning of every sentence.
Sorry, just my brain recognizing patterns.
When I was young game designers where trying to create more sophisticated video games.
Now game designers are trying to make more addictive video games.
This is due to modern game developers being comprised of artists who know how to use unity engine instead of computer scientists.
A modern day example of a game made by a computer scientist is minecraft. The person behind it simply wanted to make a mining game and he made it, meanwhile mobile developers are remaking mario for the 8000th time and adding addictive elements to get 10 year olds addicted to the game
I know this comment is a year old but like what? First of all, that's just a blatantly ignorant general assumption covering countless thousands of people and blaming all of them for the problem you perceive. Second of all, if we're going off harmful stereotypes, if anything artists are the ones trying to make things of creative integrity, beauty and meaning, driven by emotion over reason while programmers would be considered more cold and calculating, crunching the numbers and figuring out the most efficient way to carry out tasks with the least amount of effort. If a programmer consistently does more code than is necessary they are not a great programmer. On the contrary, artist's are in general, the last group of people to care about 100% efficiency though concept artists are outliers in that field. So based off this, it would be the programmer's wanting to ditch artistic integrity and just create something addicting with the bare minimum.
But all that said, it's neither's fault. Both want to generally make incredible games. The problem is publishers, the accountants, the money men. All they care about is the bottom line and most studios filled with very passionate artists and programmers who want to make the best possible games they can, are pushed into ridiculous release schedules, underfunded and often underpaid for the hours they put in. You don't know what you're talking about.
This was great until the big moral lecture in the middle. Wish people would just stick to info. We can all go to church or greenpeace meetings if we want to be lectured at about our morality.
Aren't you preaching on the morality of not sharing statements about morality?
@@alvarorodriguez1592 saying "save the preaching for people who care" is not the same thing as preaching about morality
blah blah blah blah blahhhhh
Charles Gabriel Really? That's so interesting. Tell us more about it.
Gabriel Gallardo I didn't find this interesting. I would elaborate but I already forgot what this was about. All I remember is that I stopped it halfway cause it was so uninteresting and boring haha. And I am not trying to be rude, I promise. Its rare that I stop a GDC talk like that, not to mention I always remember most of what the speaker was saying, in this case I don't even remember about this, which only makes me assume my brain agrees with me that it just didn't wanna store it in my memory haha. Once again, not trying to be rude. Just being honest.
Anyway, as far as GDC talks go like, there is always something for me to take for myself, or learn, if you will... I watched (listened since I am usually doing other stuff when I listen to long talk videos) many talks here from mainstream game dev teams (zelda botw, dragons dogma, etc) to small indie dev teams (owlboy, etc) and I always remember stuff, and learn. Not in this case? Either way, if there was something in it for you, good for you then.
I just read the comment of a future F2P game designer here.
Great talk.