Last year I saw a dangerous looking man entering through the front yard. I figured he'd want to rob me. I instantly went to my computer and ordered a knife online to defend me. Then I started training with weights to become stronger. Luckily, I scouted him so early so I could prepare accordingly.
@@DoggyP00 Ah yes, waiting days or weeks to prepare for something occurring now is a good response. I'm sure when he finally does break in 5 minutes later, those days wait won't haunt you. :)
As a Terran player the following happens a bit too often: 1. Zerg is building a LOT of roaches 2. "Kevin says roaches suck, no problem" 3. Lose the game
I think roaches are extremely good in the early game. PRetty bad against tanks if you have those though. The problem when roaches is that they max out your supply in the mid game and then lose to a better maxed out supply. Of course they can't hit air so they don't do well vs banshees either.
I knew Table would leave his carriers out front to be destroyed. I didn't think Table would turn all his Templar to archon then attack into a hydra concave. Great episode Harstem.
@@OmicronAwesome It was easy to miss but Table did attack move the hydras. If your like me then you have probably never seen archons die that quick. Table got about 7 attacks in with the 7 archons that were made. I've never had someone attack me with 3 archon while I had a concave of roaches/hydras/lurkers.
What is funny about this one is if there is an argument of imba, it is probably in the other direction. Carrier storm is supposed to stomp hydra so hard that it isn't even a viable unit for Z.
@@dylansevitt You saw this game and you... also think this is a Hero build? In spite of a 24 minute video explaining to you why it is nothing of the sort? XD
@@joakimandersson7769 I think your reading comprehension needs work. I didn't say he played a hero style. The original comment said hydra isn't viable at all for zerg, as a response I wrote how hydras are very common response to hero style.
17:40 @Harstem, you do not use a shield to stop a sword, you use a shield to deflect the sword. You put it in front of you at an angle or you swing it against the swing of the sword. Holding a shield in front of you just gets you killed and the shield destroyed. That is why wooden shields exist. They don't need to block the weapon, they need enough force to slap it away or enough inclination to misalign a sword or axe that is striking it. Your metaphors are usually spot on but this I take issue with.
from what i have watched, in the final battle, protoss used storms on roaches and ,at the same time, the interceptors were flying over the roaches. that means most of zerg's hydras were unhurt while the interceptor count was dwindling as quick as f88k
Also templar are good even without storm but only for morphing into archons for tanks and dealing with spellcasters I don’t recommend relying on feedback if your new
People die to adept all-ins and hellbat all-ins all the time too. Roaches suck pretty hard, even after the lair tech upgrade that you need in order to make them useful. They trade awful, they don't scale, they can't attack air, they cost gas, they are hard countered by any AoE, anything that does bonus damage to armored, and most air units. The only thing they're good at besides all-inning people who can't scout is defending, but a lot of time you do more damage to yourself just by making the damn things.
@@cyrusposting no roaches are good lol. And also if they suck then why does serral the best play in the entire world use them as one of his favorite zerg units. They aren’t op but they certainly do not suck
Lol I mean I like the templar because of hive tec which means vipers. Thats the one thing that makes sense. But why choose the slowest unit in the game against a fast moving zerg army And if he had swarm host and lings and vipers then what are you gonna do. By the time the carriers even reach swarm hosts in a spot you can use templar then half your base is dead. And built a nydus
I dont even play sc, but I love to hear you talk. Everything you say is either some ultra high level observation, or just funny as hell, but mostly, its both. Keep up the great work Kevin.
This was the carrier equivalent of a person losing their entire army supply, and then continuing to rally reinforcements into their opponents full army.
Considering how hydra is like 2nd or 3rd least used Zerg unit (I'm excluding making like 10 of them just to make Lurkers later)I think we know where this will go.
Also, I should add, the reason I love this content, along with this game, is that critical thinking is at the forefront. This game taught me more about time management, balancing strengths and weaknesses, and problem solving that anything I learned in school, and I still use these skills today in my career. The beauty of this content is that in almost ever episode, Harstem explains to the audience where the submission failed to understand one or more of these aspects, further reinforcing these concepts, and making the audience better for it. Love it, and keep it up!
I'm 4.5k protoss having 45% wr in mirrors and PvT, but with 65% wr in PvZ going straight into air. It's insanely fun to hear that mass void rays ain't viable because of 50 mineral nerf.
harstem at 15:12 said that his scouting was the worst posible... I disagree but only because the one place he put some vision is where he was attacked from. he invested the minumum amount to succeed, generating the maximum amount of resorces for other things... if he was attacked from another place though
Hamster is so clever with the jokes he makes. Only a minute in and the imba forum’s visuals box made me exhale sightly through my nose. A high compliment, considering I am a stone-cold man that finds nothing amusing.
Interceptors only have 40* health and 40* shields, meaning accidental storms friendly firing his own interceptors is what killed most of those interceptors in that third last fight, because they have to be within 3 range of their strafe target, to perform their attack, circle around, move away, and then turn around again and attack again, hence the weapon type of the interceptor being known as a ''strafe'' weapon, the only one of its kind, with the exception of some campaign units, such as the terran hyperions interceptors. Different from the carrier weapon, known as a ''Magazine'' type weapon. The reason the hydralisks performed so poorly in the first fight was because alot of their fire was being directed at the zealots, yes all the zealots died, but did you notice how interceptors didnt die at all with 7 or 8 zealots present in one fight near the end during his last zealot warp in? Hydralisks, along with other ranged units, can and will prioritize units that are closer, because zealots are melee range units, Hydralisks will spend disproportionately more time attacking zealots, until the interceptors start flying over top of the hydralisks, and become the closer targets, you can see this happening visually when hydralisks begin rapidly spinning in circles, and because hydralisks are a 90 health unit that deals 12 damage, they deal so much damage when compared to a 40* health 40* shields +5 damage(-1 per point of armor) +5(-1 per point of armor) damage unit, the interceptors will die disproportionately faster then zealots will. To prevent this, make sure interceptors are behind your zealots during the first zealot charge, and then try to move command zealots deeper into the hydralisk death ball, by right right clicking behind your enemy death ball, so that hydralisks will prioritize them any way instead of the interceptors. Your zealots dps will go down, because the move commands will force them to walk into the death ball without performing any attacks, but your interceptors survivability will go up, increasing your carriers dps, and thus increasing your zealots survivability as well. You learn about doing this during the legacy of the void campaign. Another neat trick, is to A move with zealots, while using most of your micro time microing the carriers to shift left click all the hydras, so the carriers dont waste precious hydra damage on roaches. Easier said then done of course. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, try to remember to not send your interceptors out at the same time as your using storm, you ideally want to keep your interceptors out of the storms, because psi storm deals 10* damage per tick, and ticks once per 0.5712 seconds* for a total of 8 ticks, one tick is provided by the first instant of psi storms cast, and 6 other ticks come after periodic timers, with one last tick provided by the effects expiration. just 4* ticks out of 1+6+1* on a psi storm can kill an interceptor, meaning a psi storm can kill an interceptor almost 2 times over, and will kill them very fast. And in huge numbers, Unlike the campaign psi storms, which did not deal friendly fire, and even healed them by replenishing their shields. Truth is psi storm doesn't help interceptors very much at all, contrary to popular belief, so you ideally want to save psi storms for before the interceptors go in, and also for after the interceptors are all gone, not at the same time such as the moment during 19:40 Another way of looking at interceptors, is to compare them, to marines, similar size, similar health, with greater movement speed, and greater damage. How well do marines fair in psi storm? about the same as interceptors, except interceptors stack up on each other, and stay in small areas, similarly to mutalisks, which is even worse. * One last neat trick with carriers/interceptors is to ''recall'' the interceptors ''early'', to conserve their numbers, for times when engagements are considered ''bad'' or when mineral count/interceptor count is low. Right clicking the ground does not stop interceptors from attacking, and will not force them to return to the carrier, you ''can'' ''force'' them to return to the carrier by right clicking the ground and moving carriers far enough away, but the interceptors will not return until they have exceeded the carriers magazine abilities leash range (12), so to ''recall'' interceptors early, simply issue your carriers a stop command, by hitting S first, and then immediately right click the ground away from the hostile units with carriers, to begin moving them, this will stop the interceptors from continuing to attack the carriers targets, because issuing a stop command to the carrier also issues these commands to the interceptors, different from hold position move or patrol commands, and returns them to the carrier early. If the interceptors continue to attack targets, because the targets are too close, you can spam S and right click to force them to return early.
You're not wrong, BUT the Liquipedia mentions interceptors have 40 hp and 40 shields. Let me know which one is the correct number. I find it hard to select interceptors ingame.
@@wisesquirrel4986 Actually, it is you/Liquipedia who are correct, and I who was in error, I was thinking of starcraft 1 stats (sc1 interceptors have 20/20) and wings of liberty campaign 2013 stats (20/20) but infact yes interceptors in skirmishes of today do have 40/40 (they updated this at some point, im not exactly sure when, I cant remember) I had to go back and check my self in the editor data fields -- You cannot click interceptors in game because they have a flag set in the unit actor status flags known as ''no click event'' and ''no highlight event'' meaning mousing over them does not create an event for a left click mouse function, meaning you cannot use target spells such as snipe Dorito cannon/seeker missile or abduct on them, (no mouse ridicule will show up, thus making the left click target unit spells impossible) and the flag ''no click event'' means they cannot be left clicked in game at all, thus their unit stats cannot be seen in the ui, at some point, they changed it so you can left click drag select a box around interceptors, and select them that way, but only temproarily, for once they enter inside the carriers, your units stats disappear from the ui and if there are other units, in the drag selection box, they too will be prioritized and the interceptors will be ignored, similar to the way harvesters are ignored by left click drag selection boxes when military units are present. I beleive you also have to hold the shift key as well, to select the interceptors in small groups.
Now I might be remembering wrong but back in SC1 Hydras were a pretty beastly Anti-Air unit for Zerg and in SC2 they sort of still retained that status, but their ground attack capabilities were nerfed pretty hard as a result.
i think what he meant with "he wasn't droning at the third" was not the realization of being all-inned, but to notice a lack in the zergs macro game, since the third was there but not yet used and because of that fact he decided to beat him macro wise and tech up. he didn't write it out very clearly in the form though.
I love that he scouted the "aggression" but the zerg was just bad and ended up winning because they accidentally forced carriers(somehow as a response). Wild.
Before I watch the video (still on the 2:35 part) I must say: I must agree with this guy. How is the game not broken if in tournaments it's ALWAYS zergs on the last games? SOMETIMES there's a terran or two. But protoss? That's a race of past glory. It can't see to fairly compete with others. For the past few years the game seems *really* heavily inclined toward Zerg power. It doesn't matter if you have a better army or economy, even in late game. It always come to a zerg domination
Just rewatching that first fight with the zealot stalker vs hydra roach... Why did the zerg move his army there? Did he see something he shouldn't have through map hacks? Seems very odd. Overlord on the pillar yeah I saw it. But that reaction speed was very fast for low diamond. Also cannon battery with carrier Templar is unstoppable for hydra.
I felt like a really bad fight to me builging only two kinds of units and both are gas heavy with no mineraldump on zealots to support the high templars. Also the archons kinda stood idle underneath the carriers for a while. It really felt like there was something missing in that army.
just having seen till 2:37 so far, but just the description of the alleged imballance is beyond weird. I mean i am not a toss but a zerg, but if i would be toss and would scout that the zerg does not drone his 3rd at a time where he should, the absolute last thing i would go for is carriers. No matter what the zerg goes for, it causes substantial risk to kill you. When he doesnt drone, he builds an army. If a zerg builds an army he kind of must push. An incoming push is basically guaranteed.
@@calbsmoth4866 He also declared it imba when that one jerk sent in a replay he won, but pretended to be the player on the losing side in order to mock them.
Just because a unit counters a composition doesn't mean you can just attack move and auto win. I think that's the take away of this video Carriers and storm do indeed counter hydras, but not if you throw empty storms and then lose all the interceptors without falling back to rebuilt. It's like saying "wow siege tanks are suppose to destroy roaches. How did my enemy win by catching my 11 unsieged tanks in the middle of the map with 20 roaches?"
Definitley link the tutorials you've made and mention in your videos (like the 'how to beat all pool first builds') Also who is your editor. He/she is awesome
It feels like this protoss believe that carriers are imba more then hydras saying he's risking getting all in to tech swap into them rather then prepare a defence
Don't storms hit interceptors? I am majorly confused how that works (my opponents never have storms and carriers at the same time so I've never seen it)
If the carriers fought in concert with the high templar storming the hydras, then it wouldn't be such a problem. I don't even understand the point of waving your carriers around in his face when they have no interceptors in them. They just stand there and die, when instead you could just walk into your base and wait for them to rebuild while the hydras kill off one of your five bases.
As a protoss race, I'm proud to see Table lost this one in big screen for everyone to see - Protoss is not an A-Move race, it still needs brain and kiting control just not to feed away all interceptors for free.
This protoss totally has the turtles playing chess complaining about white goes first vibes. Why even use interceptors when you can just scare the enemy away with carriers
This wasn't a fight between 2-2 Hydras and Carriers. It was a fight between 2-2 Hydras and 2-3 Interceptors... the Storms don't even count, since most of them missed.
"Oh no! I'm getting all-inned very soon!" *goes for a complete tech switch* Only a low diamond protoss would complain that things went badly when they tried this xD
As a 3500mmr zerg who complained a lot about carriers for a long time, I only wish I could've faced this moron, and ideally a legion of similarly addle-minded warlords. I sent untold thousands of hydras to their deaths in vain, whereas this guy was just waiting to get stomped the whole time.
Hydras are OP, they are the scariest unit of the zerg. SCI hydra postscreen still gives me shivers. Hydras are like 2 marines, mass hydras just like mass marines kill off interceptors in a matter of seconds.
It is widely well know that Hydra's are among the most broken units. Easily beating both bio, mech, air terran, walking over terran colossi, the only counter is an early all in to prevent the arrival of hydra's :D Clearly, the toss should have gone for Tempests. :s Also: did the Zerg make any overlords? DT's could have been funny.. All those carriers clumped up.. all those High Templars pretty clumped too... Fungal + Parasite for some dmg vs the carriers, interceptors and HT + Neural two of those Archons and pretty much gg at a fraction of the cost. Zerg really should have brought a few casters. Also, lowering the air-dps vs ground would have been valid in this situation even.
It sounds like a baby "how come carriers didn't win, carriers are the best" , without trying to counter hydra with colossus or disruptor, missing storms and making archons which get focused hard by hydra b/c of range. Does this guy even know his own race?
Its why I stopped playing Zerg, all the units are bad. You got ling/bane and you got lurkers, but hydras are bad, roaches are useless later in game, ultras are garbo, broods are also kind of bad... I know competent players make a lot of stuff work, but for me it just felt like I could not enjoy 2/3rds of the tech tree because its just unusable. I even forget swarmhosts exist.
@@CZProtton haha yeah I'm planning on switching out of zerg. It's not fun to play. Only 5 units are viable for the first 5 minutes. The only unit that can shoot up is useless off creep.
is it me: why not going for the third base? then he knows, that he is better in eco... go with zeaolots and stalkers and it should be fine, or am i wrong? then just blocking more expansions. should be fine then. (i am talking about the 5 minute mark in the game)
i don't think he knew the empty base meant an all-in. I think he just thought he was against a bad player that was slow to saturate so he was ahead....
Do storms knock down interceptors? When the first storm hits, the interceptor count is dropping rapidly. Or is that just the hydras making short work of them?
Yes it does. But its usualy not a big problem because you kill the hydras way more efficiently while the interceptors get rebuilt fast. Hydras also kill interceptors very fast though, which is why hydras actualy counter carriers if you dont have support for those carriers to kill the hydras. Its the same with marines, marines absolutely destroy carriers if you dont get support for them. Easiest to support is storm.
There are Legit some Toss mains in this chat actually agreeing that Hydra are IMBA in this circumstance 😂 Meanwhile this replay is single handedly making a reasonable case to allow Zerg players to petition for a 400 supply buff to allow enough macro to defeat 3 A-move carriers and some badly missed storms.
Zerg doesn't need buffs. We have the 2 base armor corruptor for dealing against carriers. Corruptors outrun carriers and just nuke them 1 by 1. Hydralisks can outmuscle carriers given the opposing protoss plays poorly enough, but the corruptor's stats hard counter these multi-attack capital ships, while spore crawlers can buy the time necessary to mass corruptors. Hydralisks are effective against void rays, phoenixes, oracles, stalkers, and archons, but are lackluster in every other matchup because of their low hitpoints and slow speed.
@@wisesquirrel4986 If someone is going mass Carrier, they should reasonably have a few Void / Pheonix which easily counter 2 base corruptor when paired with the carrier and require no additional tech for them. The answer such as the one you provided always seems to be that 'there is a solution'... which there is. But the problem is that on the Toss side, they don't really require a specific solution... it's often just an easy win with minimal build changes. This is evident by the fact that if a Toss scouts anti-air, they often just add more air - not switch to a counter.
"My Lord, the mongols are at our border, they probably arrive at our capital in 2 days." "Mhh. Lets start to build 20 castles and send someone to china, maybe we will eventually invent black powder and intercontinental missiles in time..."
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Last year I saw a dangerous looking man entering through the front yard. I figured he'd want to rob me.
I instantly went to my computer and ordered a knife online to defend me. Then I started training with weights to become stronger.
Luckily, I scouted him so early so I could prepare accordingly.
Considering you didnt say he entered your home, thats unironically not a bad response
@@DoggyP00 Ah yes, waiting days or weeks to prepare for something occurring now is a good response. I'm sure when he finally does break in 5 minutes later, those days wait won't haunt you. :)
@@NeiasaurusCreations Breaking in is BROKEN. Nerf door opening techniques.
@@notrather5514 You're not even wrong though. Breaking into buildings is actually kind of trivial in most cases.
Next up: Terran scouts 2 base stalker all in, defends with battlecruisers
With Yamato :O
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I rushed Broodlords vs 3 rax reaper, how the hell am I losing?
This shitters don't even shoot up
☠️☠️☠️☠️
@@repit5014 you managed to get out broodlords against mass reaper I have no idea how you lost. Now if you TRIED to its another story
As a Terran player the following happens a bit too often:
1. Zerg is building a LOT of roaches
2. "Kevin says roaches suck, no problem"
3. Lose the game
Marine marauder tank shreds roaches, especially on the defense
The standard ground toss death ball will absolutely murder roaches
I think roaches are extremely good in the early game. PRetty bad against tanks if you have those though. The problem when roaches is that they max out your supply in the mid game and then lose to a better maxed out supply. Of course they can't hit air so they don't do well vs banshees either.
I will touch you
If Table is fuming about hydras, I can only imagine he's bursting into flames about marine-medivac.
Nah. If he is table, he will only flip table or split into two benches if he plays against uThermal's marine-medivac challenge.
The most fun thing is that storm is absolutely OP against both. He just seems so bad at using it.
unless he can turn the tables
@@CZProtton Using more than 1 control group for your army, are you INSANE?!??!!?
@@michaelfishman6082 OMG you need to be Serral or Hero to use 2 control groups. This is imbalanced
I knew this episode was going to be great when Harstem started roasting the guy and he didn't even finish reading the complaint lmfao.
I knew Table would leave his carriers out front to be destroyed. I didn't think Table would turn all his Templar to archon then attack into a hydra concave. Great episode Harstem.
Correction, walk into hydra concave. I don’t think his archons did much attacking at all. He was just move commanding at that point.
@@OmicronAwesome It was easy to miss but Table did attack move the hydras. If your like me then you have probably never seen archons die that quick. Table got about 7 attacks in with the 7 archons that were made. I've never had someone attack me with 3 archon while I had a concave of roaches/hydras/lurkers.
At the end it was basically he threw everything into the meat grinder
Baffling decision from Table. Complained that HT Carrier was supposed to beat Hydras, but lost because he got rid of all his HT for Archons.
What is funny about this one is if there is an argument of imba, it is probably in the other direction. Carrier storm is supposed to stomp hydra so hard that it isn't even a viable unit for Z.
Tbf i wouldnt say the protoss played worse this game they both had bad builds but hydra all ins are definitely becoming popular Vs hero style
@@dylansevitt Not moving the carriers and morphing into archons is like the worst play possible...
@@dylansevitt You saw this game and you... also think this is a Hero build? In spite of a 24 minute video explaining to you why it is nothing of the sort? XD
@@joakimandersson7769 I think your reading comprehension needs work. I didn't say he played a hero style. The original comment said hydra isn't viable at all for zerg, as a response I wrote how hydras are very common response to hero style.
You know you're in for a treat when the Capitan winces the moment you mentioned a build from a well-established player.
That microwave done sound when the all-in response was finally ready was the chef's kiss on this vid.
Your analogies continue to be things of outstanding beauty
I love Hamster actually remember the microwave analogy and gave the microwave finishing "bink!" sound when the "response" is done preparing.
17:40 @Harstem, you do not use a shield to stop a sword, you use a shield to deflect the sword. You put it in front of you at an angle or you swing it against the swing of the sword. Holding a shield in front of you just gets you killed and the shield destroyed. That is why wooden shields exist. They don't need to block the weapon, they need enough force to slap it away or enough inclination to misalign a sword or axe that is striking it. Your metaphors are usually spot on but this I take issue with.
from what i have watched, in the final battle, protoss used storms on roaches and ,at the same time, the interceptors were flying over the roaches. that means most of zerg's hydras were unhurt while the interceptor count was dwindling as quick as f88k
This content is fire. The over-the-top criticism is hilarious and always so helpful for learning as a player
Some of it isn’t the best. He said roaches suck yet people die constantly to roach pushes at around the 4:30 and 7:30 minute mark.
Also templar are good even without storm but only for morphing into archons for tanks and dealing with spellcasters
I don’t recommend relying on feedback if your new
People die to adept all-ins and hellbat all-ins all the time too. Roaches suck pretty hard, even after the lair tech upgrade that you need in order to make them useful. They trade awful, they don't scale, they can't attack air, they cost gas, they are hard countered by any AoE, anything that does bonus damage to armored, and most air units. The only thing they're good at besides all-inning people who can't scout is defending, but a lot of time you do more damage to yourself just by making the damn things.
@@cyrusposting no roaches are good lol. And also if they suck then why does serral the best play in the entire world use them as one of his favorite zerg units.
They aren’t op but they certainly do not suck
@@cyrusposting serral plays roach ravanger bane all the time
12:53 despite your ability to just edit that section out, you offer a sincere apology. quality content and quality human being. good job harstem.
The fact someone's response to a Zerg not droning his third is teching to carriers
Lmfao
Lol
I mean I like the templar because of hive tec which means vipers. Thats the one thing that makes sense. But why choose the slowest unit in the game against a fast moving zerg army
And if he had swarm host and lings and vipers then what are you gonna do. By the time the carriers even reach swarm hosts in a spot you can use templar then half your base is dead. And built a nydus
This is my favorite series on SC2. I love what you do, Harstem. Cheers!
I dont even play sc, but I love to hear you talk. Everything you say is either some ultra high level observation, or just funny as hell, but mostly, its both. Keep up the great work Kevin.
This was the carrier equivalent of a person losing their entire army supply, and then continuing to rally reinforcements into their opponents full army.
5:51 Round of applause for the production value here, very nice!
Considering how hydra is like 2nd or 3rd least used Zerg unit (I'm excluding making like 10 of them just to make Lurkers later)I think we know where this will go.
I agree every zerg player including myself use ultras or swarm hosts before thinking about ultras
The least common is lurker obv not like its used in every game where the enemy stays on ground
Also, I should add, the reason I love this content, along with this game, is that critical thinking is at the forefront. This game taught me more about time management, balancing strengths and weaknesses, and problem solving that anything I learned in school, and I still use these skills today in my career. The beauty of this content is that in almost ever episode, Harstem explains to the audience where the submission failed to understand one or more of these aspects, further reinforcing these concepts, and making the audience better for it. Love it, and keep it up!
18:19 Putting 'Harstem' as Tier 2 is a nice little Easter egg here! :D
I'm 4.5k protoss having 45% wr in mirrors and PvT, but with 65% wr in PvZ going straight into air. It's insanely fun to hear that mass void rays ain't viable because of 50 mineral nerf.
At a much higher level they are not because they die against 88 drone roach corruptor timings. But that's like 2000 mmr above this game.
Making those cinders stay around was such a chef's kiss moment
Feels like Table had no interceptors because he stormed them...
I was just about to write the same. It wasn't the hydras, it was his own storms that left Table without interceptors :/
That's exactly it! Every storm in the last battle was in the middle of all his interceptors.
@@fermora I love this game so much XD.
harstem at 15:12 said that his scouting was the worst posible... I disagree but only because the one place he put some vision is where he was attacked from. he invested the minumum amount to succeed, generating the maximum amount of resorces for other things... if he was attacked from another place though
18:00 yea, that is basically how Bronze Age ended and moved into Iron Age - Superior upgrades :D
it looked like the build order the zerg was going was what pig used in his b2gm
Nothing like some harstem content seasoned with table salt
Hamster is so clever with the jokes he makes. Only a minute in and the imba forum’s visuals box made me exhale sightly through my nose. A high compliment, considering I am a stone-cold man that finds nothing amusing.
I don’t even watch Harstem for SC2 gameplay, I’m just here for the creative metaphors he comes up with at this point 🤣
How does a toss push at 9:30 without any tech units at all?
I feel like those carriers were ordered to never retreat.
24:27 One of the most ruthless "You suck" ever pronounced on this channel.
The F2 in the final fight was so painful too just pull back the carriers and storm for free
This is a fantastic series. I learn a lot. Ty guys!
Interceptors only have 40* health and 40* shields, meaning accidental storms friendly firing his own interceptors is what killed most of those interceptors in that third last fight, because they have to be within 3 range of their strafe target, to perform their attack, circle around, move away, and then turn around again and attack again, hence the weapon type of the interceptor being known as a ''strafe'' weapon, the only one of its kind, with the exception of some campaign units, such as the terran hyperions interceptors. Different from the carrier weapon, known as a ''Magazine'' type weapon. The reason the hydralisks performed so poorly in the first fight was because alot of their fire was being directed at the zealots, yes all the zealots died, but did you notice how interceptors didnt die at all with 7 or 8 zealots present in one fight near the end during his last zealot warp in? Hydralisks, along with other ranged units, can and will prioritize units that are closer, because zealots are melee range units, Hydralisks will spend disproportionately more time attacking zealots, until the interceptors start flying over top of the hydralisks, and become the closer targets, you can see this happening visually when hydralisks begin rapidly spinning in circles, and because hydralisks are a 90 health unit that deals 12 damage, they deal so much damage when compared to a 40* health 40* shields +5 damage(-1 per point of armor) +5(-1 per point of armor) damage unit, the interceptors will die disproportionately faster then zealots will. To prevent this, make sure interceptors are behind your zealots during the first zealot charge, and then try to move command zealots deeper into the hydralisk death ball, by right right clicking behind your enemy death ball, so that hydralisks will prioritize them any way instead of the interceptors. Your zealots dps will go down, because the move commands will force them to walk into the death ball without performing any attacks, but your interceptors survivability will go up, increasing your carriers dps, and thus increasing your zealots survivability as well. You learn about doing this during the legacy of the void campaign.
Another neat trick, is to A move with zealots, while using most of your micro time microing the carriers to shift left click all the hydras, so the carriers dont waste precious hydra damage on roaches. Easier said then done of course.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, try to remember to not send your interceptors out at the same time as your using storm, you ideally want to keep your interceptors out of the storms, because psi storm deals 10* damage per tick, and ticks once per 0.5712 seconds* for a total of 8 ticks, one tick is provided by the first instant of psi storms cast, and 6 other ticks come after periodic timers, with one last tick provided by the effects expiration. just 4* ticks out of 1+6+1* on a psi storm can kill an interceptor, meaning a psi storm can kill an interceptor almost 2 times over, and will kill them very fast. And in huge numbers, Unlike the campaign psi storms, which did not deal friendly fire, and even healed them by replenishing their shields. Truth is psi storm doesn't help interceptors very much at all, contrary to popular belief, so you ideally want to save psi storms for before the interceptors go in, and also for after the interceptors are all gone, not at the same time such as the moment during 19:40
Another way of looking at interceptors, is to compare them, to marines, similar size, similar health, with greater movement speed, and greater damage. How well do marines fair in psi storm? about the same as interceptors, except interceptors stack up on each other, and stay in small areas, similarly to mutalisks, which is even worse.
* One last neat trick with carriers/interceptors is to ''recall'' the interceptors ''early'', to conserve their numbers, for times when engagements are considered ''bad'' or when mineral count/interceptor count is low.
Right clicking the ground does not stop interceptors from attacking, and will not force them to return to the carrier, you ''can'' ''force'' them to return to the carrier by right clicking the ground and moving carriers far enough away, but the interceptors will not return until they have exceeded the carriers magazine abilities leash range (12), so to ''recall'' interceptors early, simply issue your carriers a stop command, by hitting S first, and then immediately right click the ground away from the hostile units with carriers, to begin moving them, this will stop the interceptors from continuing to attack the carriers targets, because issuing a stop command to the carrier also issues these commands to the interceptors, different from hold position move or patrol commands, and returns them to the carrier early. If the interceptors continue to attack targets, because the targets are too close, you can spam S and right click to force them to return early.
You're not wrong, BUT the Liquipedia mentions interceptors have 40 hp and 40 shields. Let me know which one is the correct number. I find it hard to select interceptors ingame.
@@wisesquirrel4986 Actually, it is you/Liquipedia who are correct, and I who was in error, I was thinking of starcraft 1 stats (sc1 interceptors have 20/20) and wings of liberty campaign 2013 stats (20/20) but infact yes interceptors in skirmishes of today do have 40/40 (they updated this at some point, im not exactly sure when, I cant remember) I had to go back and check my self in the editor data fields -- You cannot click interceptors in game because they have a flag set in the unit actor status flags known as ''no click event'' and ''no highlight event'' meaning mousing over them does not create an event for a left click mouse function, meaning you cannot use target spells such as snipe Dorito cannon/seeker missile or abduct on them, (no mouse ridicule will show up, thus making the left click target unit spells impossible) and the flag ''no click event'' means they cannot be left clicked in game at all, thus their unit stats cannot be seen in the ui, at some point, they changed it so you can left click drag select a box around interceptors, and select them that way, but only temproarily, for once they enter inside the carriers, your units stats disappear from the ui and if there are other units, in the drag selection box, they too will be prioritized and the interceptors will be ignored, similar to the way harvesters are ignored by left click drag selection boxes when military units are present. I beleive you also have to hold the shift key as well, to select the interceptors in small groups.
Now I might be remembering wrong but back in SC1 Hydras were a pretty beastly Anti-Air unit for Zerg and in SC2 they sort of still retained that status, but their ground attack capabilities were nerfed pretty hard as a result.
The surprise party remark at 15:30 SENT me 😂🤣🤭
"I saw that he wasn't droning his third base, therefore I teched into Carriers"
4:15 - Missed the perfect analogy of buying a plane ticket instead.
At 13:50 I think the word you are looking for is crowd control
22:50 is the best. Poor critters
I LOOOOVE the side description😂😂😂 tier 2 harstem tier 3 “tables”😅😅😅😂😂😂
props to hamster on that lambo editing lol
i think what he meant with "he wasn't droning at the third" was not the realization of being all-inned, but to notice a lack in the zergs macro game, since the third was there but not yet used and because of that fact he decided to beat him macro wise and tech up. he didn't write it out very clearly in the form though.
Which doesn't make too much sense.
@@henningbreede6428 didn't say it did, but i think he meant it like that. ^^
"Oh, there's an All-in happening that could hit every moment. Let's hard counter it with the slowest possible build." 😹
I love that he scouted the "aggression" but the zerg was just bad and ended up winning because they accidentally forced carriers(somehow as a response). Wild.
Fight so bad at 13:00 Harstem went full Matthew McConaughey
Before I watch the video (still on the 2:35 part) I must say:
I must agree with this guy. How is the game not broken if in tournaments it's ALWAYS zergs on the last games? SOMETIMES there's a terran or two. But protoss? That's a race of past glory. It can't see to fairly compete with others. For the past few years the game seems *really* heavily inclined toward Zerg power. It doesn't matter if you have a better army or economy, even in late game. It always come to a zerg domination
Table's whole argument can be summed up as: the Rook is more powerful than the Bishop, but his Bishop took my Rook.
Just rewatching that first fight with the zealot stalker vs hydra roach... Why did the zerg move his army there? Did he see something he shouldn't have through map hacks? Seems very odd.
Overlord on the pillar yeah I saw it. But that reaction speed was very fast for low diamond.
Also cannon battery with carrier Templar is unstoppable for hydra.
I felt like a really bad fight to me builging only two kinds of units and both are gas heavy with no mineraldump on zealots to support the high templars. Also the archons kinda stood idle underneath the carriers for a while. It really felt like there was something missing in that army.
The tier 1 to 3 made me laugh
just having seen till 2:37 so far, but just the description of the alleged imballance is beyond weird. I mean i am not a toss but a zerg, but if i would be toss and would scout that the zerg does not drone his 3rd at a time where he should, the absolute last thing i would go for is carriers. No matter what the zerg goes for, it causes substantial risk to kill you. When he doesnt drone, he builds an army. If a zerg builds an army he kind of must push. An incoming push is basically guaranteed.
😂 the Lambo meme was 👌 great job with all of the editing!
Man I love this series! I wonder did anyone get the "it's imba" and not "you suck" xD
the episode with lowko ft. reynor did haha
@@calbsmoth4866 He also declared it imba when that one jerk sent in a replay he won, but pretended to be the player on the losing side in order to mock them.
@@CatacombD ahhhh i forgot about that one, do you know the video title? i want to watch again haha
@@calbsmoth4866 "Catching an IODIS Impostor! And punishing him! | Is It Imba Or Do I Suck"
Just because a unit counters a composition doesn't mean you can just attack move and auto win. I think that's the take away of this video
Carriers and storm do indeed counter hydras, but not if you throw empty storms and then lose all the interceptors without falling back to rebuilt.
It's like saying "wow siege tanks are suppose to destroy roaches. How did my enemy win by catching my 11 unsieged tanks in the middle of the map with 20 roaches?"
I love the insert art this time lol so many memes morphed into one
Editing was great in this video, love to see the quality only improving Captain
Hydras are imba because they actually suck so much, they need a buff
Definitley link the tutorials you've made and mention in your videos (like the 'how to beat all pool first builds')
Also who is your editor. He/she is awesome
It's nearly impossible that a plat episode of this format will disappoint.
14:38-14:48 We aren't going to point out the fact that our Toss has FOUR freakin' Stargates going too?! Like, my man, no wonder you have no loot lol.
Nice video! Would've liked to see the battle recaps with resources lost.
It feels like this protoss believe that carriers are imba more then hydras saying he's risking getting all in to tech swap into them rather then prepare a defence
18:58 Ghosts?
Hamster needs a raise... that guy is an absolute master in editing.
the problem here was that the guy didnt understand that no drones means all in attack i think
It's all a misunderstanding. He wasn't talking about upgrades.
What he meant by " +1 carriers " is " carriers that only have one interceptor left "
Don't storms hit interceptors? I am majorly confused how that works (my opponents never have storms and carriers at the same time so I've never seen it)
If the carriers fought in concert with the high templar storming the hydras, then it wouldn't be such a problem. I don't even understand the point of waving your carriers around in his face when they have no interceptors in them. They just stand there and die, when instead you could just walk into your base and wait for them to rebuild while the hydras kill off one of your five bases.
wonderful editing as always
As a protoss race, I'm proud to see Table lost this one in big screen for everyone to see - Protoss is not an A-Move race, it still needs brain and kiting control just not to feed away all interceptors for free.
This protoss totally has the turtles playing chess complaining about white goes first vibes. Why even use interceptors when you can just scare the enemy away with carriers
18:50 yes, that problem is what killed overwatch
This wasn't a fight between 2-2 Hydras and Carriers. It was a fight between 2-2 Hydras and 2-3 Interceptors... the Storms don't even count, since most of them missed.
Crawl instead 😂😂😂😂 i had to laugh so hard.
This sentence hit so hard xD i cant get up... my stomavch hurts so much 😂😂😂😂
"Oh no! I'm getting all-inned very soon!"
*goes for a complete tech switch*
Only a low diamond protoss would complain that things went badly when they tried this xD
It looks suspiciously like Pig's b2gm roach hydra build order. Bill should have hit like at 6:30 with 35 roaches. Or that's what I try to do
As a 3500mmr zerg who complained a lot about carriers for a long time, I only wish I could've faced this moron, and ideally a legion of similarly addle-minded warlords. I sent untold thousands of hydras to their deaths in vain, whereas this guy was just waiting to get stomped the whole time.
The Lambo part got me good, great video.
Hydras are OP, they are the scariest unit of the zerg. SCI hydra postscreen still gives me shivers. Hydras are like 2 marines, mass hydras just like mass marines kill off interceptors in a matter of seconds.
I can't stop imagining two disruptor balls in the middle of this roach/hydra clump off creep *sigh*
Come for the StarCraft, stay for the analogies.
Now I want to try Gordon Ramsay's chocolate cake.
it's f-ing raw !!!
That last fight was painful to watch.
It is widely well know that Hydra's are among the most broken units.
Easily beating both bio, mech, air terran, walking over terran colossi, the only counter is an early all in to prevent the arrival of hydra's :D
Clearly, the toss should have gone for Tempests. :s
Also: did the Zerg make any overlords? DT's could have been funny..
All those carriers clumped up.. all those High Templars pretty clumped too... Fungal + Parasite for some dmg vs the carriers, interceptors and HT + Neural two of those Archons and pretty much gg at a fraction of the cost.
Zerg really should have brought a few casters. Also, lowering the air-dps vs ground would have been valid in this situation even.
It sounds like a baby "how come carriers didn't win, carriers are the best" , without trying to counter hydra with colossus or disruptor, missing storms and making archons which get focused hard by hydra b/c of range. Does this guy even know his own race?
Hydra are so bad, when Lambo used them Harstem asked "did you drink the Kool-Aid?"
Its why I stopped playing Zerg, all the units are bad. You got ling/bane and you got lurkers, but hydras are bad, roaches are useless later in game, ultras are garbo, broods are also kind of bad... I know competent players make a lot of stuff work, but for me it just felt like I could not enjoy 2/3rds of the tech tree because its just unusable. I even forget swarmhosts exist.
@@CZProtton haha yeah I'm planning on switching out of zerg. It's not fun to play. Only 5 units are viable for the first 5 minutes. The only unit that can shoot up is useless off creep.
I like how Hamster ranked Harstem as Tier 2. Stronger than a chair, but not as good at Starcraft 2 as a table.
If he had the templars in pos ready for storming when the army came at 16, he would have whiped the enemy without losing much.
is it me: why not going for the third base? then he knows, that he is better in eco... go with zeaolots and stalkers and it should be fine, or am i wrong? then just blocking more expansions. should be fine then. (i am talking about the 5 minute mark in the game)
He also storms his own interceptors
Sounds like he played Heroes of Might and Magic so he expects top tier units to just win.
i don't think he knew the empty base meant an all-in. I think he just thought he was against a bad player that was slow to saturate so he was ahead....
Do storms knock down interceptors? When the first storm hits, the interceptor count is dropping rapidly. Or is that just the hydras making short work of them?
Yes it does. But its usualy not a big problem because you kill the hydras way more efficiently while the interceptors get rebuilt fast. Hydras also kill interceptors very fast though, which is why hydras actualy counter carriers if you dont have support for those carriers to kill the hydras.
Its the same with marines, marines absolutely destroy carriers if you dont get support for them. Easiest to support is storm.
@@CZProtton Thx
There are Legit some Toss mains in this chat actually agreeing that Hydra are IMBA in this circumstance 😂 Meanwhile this replay is single handedly making a reasonable case to allow Zerg players to petition for a 400 supply buff to allow enough macro to defeat 3 A-move carriers and some badly missed storms.
Zerg doesn't need buffs. We have the 2 base armor corruptor for dealing against carriers. Corruptors outrun carriers and just nuke them 1 by 1. Hydralisks can outmuscle carriers given the opposing protoss plays poorly enough, but the corruptor's stats hard counter these multi-attack capital ships, while spore crawlers can buy the time necessary to mass corruptors. Hydralisks are effective against void rays, phoenixes, oracles, stalkers, and archons, but are lackluster in every other matchup because of their low hitpoints and slow speed.
@@wisesquirrel4986 If someone is going mass Carrier, they should reasonably have a few Void / Pheonix which easily counter 2 base corruptor when paired with the carrier and require no additional tech for them. The answer such as the one you provided always seems to be that 'there is a solution'... which there is. But the problem is that on the Toss side, they don't really require a specific solution... it's often just an easy win with minimal build changes. This is evident by the fact that if a Toss scouts anti-air, they often just add more air - not switch to a counter.
"My Lord, the mongols are at our border, they probably arrive at our capital in 2 days."
"Mhh. Lets start to build 20 castles and send someone to china, maybe we will eventually invent black powder and intercontinental missiles in time..."
love these videos, keep them coming!