Before my wife and I got married (41 years ago) her dad counseled us that if two people always agree on everything, one of them is not needed. Over our decades of marriage, we have disagreed on many things, but we have never fought over anything. Today, I can listen respectfully to a wide variety of opinions and positions, but I find it hard to treat seriously anyone who is contentious in their manner of presenting their position. This was a great conversation!
Excellent. Coleman Hughes is one of the best at sorting, distilling, clarifying, and framing factors in a topic, ...and doing so with rationality instead of intuition or emotion.
I'll put it simple. If you want your reparations you must first be an actual slave for at least 10 years. No past being a slave yourself means you deserve nothing. Stop complaining for something you never endured and have respect for those who actually endured it.
This rule breaks down when applied to red native Americans.. why should they receive reparations when none of the red natives who received reparation land was taken?
@@michaelg3573 No, it doesn't break down, they shouldn't be getting reparations either unless their immediate relatives were the ones killed or persecuted. Or are you telling me that they 're still being persecuted to this day? Also, those tribes also persecuted and seized land from other tribes, should they also pay reparations? What about the ones who killed white people in the past? They can just assimilate into the rest of society and enjoy the same rights as everyone else.
A few points: 1. Yes, slavery existed across cultures, but not enough attention is given to the ability of former slaves to assimilate back into the "in-group".. the black American experience was different because they could not assimilate and remained targets (hence things like the Tulsa Massacre, Jim Crow, Red Lining, etc.) 2. Coleman Cruz mentioned he is mixed race, and this is important. He mentions that Nigerians / Ethiopians are culturally different than black Americans, but he himself is culturally different because of his mixed race background yet he is being promoted in the media as a voice of black Americans.. problematic.. (but likely because he appears black American and tells people what they want to hear.. focus on class.. and he's being paid handsomely for these appearances to do so..) 3. Color blindness should be the goal, but it is unrealistic. People will always have (conscious or subconscious) biases. And let's not act like who gets to be in a band is the same as who gets elevated into positions of power through promotion.. "in-group" bias will always be a factor in subjective decisions. A solution is to make hiring/promotions as objective as possible. 4. Just because some black Americans become successful should not disqualify them from the government making amends for their wrongdoing in the form of cash reparations. Was a class check ever done for the red natives or victims of WW2? A precedent has been set. The USA paid red native Americans, Germany paid victims of WW2, but the USA never paid black Americans? The fact this has not been done is a historic injustice.
Here's the thing, nobody alive has been a slave or a slave owner. If someone wants to get reparations for slavery that person should first be subjected for at least 10 years to slavery. Then, I'll believe he deserves reparations.
@@davidcr566 Although no one alive has been a slave, the debt has already been passed down. The best way to think about it is in terms of the butterfly effect / missed opportunity cost. For example, suppose there was no slavery and events like the Tulsa Massacre never happened. Would there be a black American version of Goldman Sachs today? How many black American companies would have been created? Would the wealth/jobs from these companies have been passed down to current black Americans? What if there was no red lining? How would that change wealth disparities? etc. The truth of the matter is that slavery created a debt and the government responsible is still here. Reparations are owed and I only see this discussion getting louder and louder until it can no longer be ignored.
@@michaelg3573 No person is guilty of the sins of his parents. It's absurd to think a debt can be inherited to someone that had nothing to do. Let's say your parents got deeply in debt with a bank or blew out their cards to a point where it can't be paid in a lifetime, then they die or simply commit suicide for the stress. Should the bank start charging you the debt because "it has been passed down"? I don't think they should have the right of that.
@@davidcr566 By this logic, the red native Americans should've never received reparations since their land seizure happened many generations before the first reparations were paid. If they were never paid then the USA would be perfectly justified in denying black Americans reparations. However, what’s not ok is setting a precedent, then selectively denying it to one group over another. Without land and labor, it's doubtful the USA would exist, and if it did exist, it definitely would not have become a super power we see today.
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Before my wife and I got married (41 years ago) her dad counseled us that if two people always agree on everything, one of them is not needed. Over our decades of marriage, we have disagreed on many things, but we have never fought over anything. Today, I can listen respectfully to a wide variety of opinions and positions, but I find it hard to treat seriously anyone who is contentious in their manner of presenting their position. This was a great conversation!
L0
Excellent. Coleman Hughes is one of the best at sorting, distilling, clarifying, and framing factors in a topic, ...and doing so with rationality instead of intuition or emotion.
I'll put it simple. If you want your reparations you must first be an actual slave for at least 10 years.
No past being a slave yourself means you deserve nothing. Stop complaining for something you never endured and have respect for those who actually endured it.
This rule breaks down when applied to red native Americans.. why should they receive reparations when none of the red natives who received reparation land was taken?
@@michaelg3573 No, it doesn't break down, they shouldn't be getting reparations either unless their immediate relatives were the ones killed or persecuted. Or are you telling me that they 're still being persecuted to this day? Also, those tribes also persecuted and seized land from other tribes, should they also pay reparations? What about the ones who killed white people in the past? They can just assimilate into the rest of society and enjoy the same rights as everyone else.
Did Coleman include himself? 🤔
A few points:
1. Yes, slavery existed across cultures, but not enough attention is given to the ability of former slaves to assimilate back into the "in-group".. the black American experience was different because they could not assimilate and remained targets (hence things like the Tulsa Massacre, Jim Crow, Red Lining, etc.)
2. Coleman Cruz mentioned he is mixed race, and this is important. He mentions that Nigerians / Ethiopians are culturally different than black Americans, but he himself is culturally different because of his mixed race background yet he is being promoted in the media as a voice of black Americans.. problematic.. (but likely because he appears black American and tells people what they want to hear.. focus on class.. and he's being paid handsomely for these appearances to do so..)
3. Color blindness should be the goal, but it is unrealistic. People will always have (conscious or subconscious) biases. And let's not act like who gets to be in a band is the same as who gets elevated into positions of power through promotion.. "in-group" bias will always be a factor in subjective decisions. A solution is to make hiring/promotions as objective as possible.
4. Just because some black Americans become successful should not disqualify them from the government making amends for their wrongdoing in the form of cash reparations. Was a class check ever done for the red natives or victims of WW2? A precedent has been set. The USA paid red native Americans, Germany paid victims of WW2, but the USA never paid black Americans? The fact this has not been done is a historic injustice.
Exactly
Here's the thing, nobody alive has been a slave or a slave owner. If someone wants to get reparations for slavery that person should first be subjected for at least 10 years to slavery. Then, I'll believe he deserves reparations.
@@davidcr566
Although no one alive has been a slave, the debt has already been passed down. The best way to think about it is in terms of the butterfly effect / missed opportunity cost.
For example, suppose there was no slavery and events like the Tulsa Massacre never happened. Would there be a black American version of Goldman Sachs today? How many black American companies would have been created? Would the wealth/jobs from these companies have been passed down to current black Americans? What if there was no red lining? How would that change wealth disparities? etc.
The truth of the matter is that slavery created a debt and the government responsible is still here. Reparations are owed and I only see this discussion getting louder and louder until it can no longer be ignored.
@@michaelg3573 No person is guilty of the sins of his parents.
It's absurd to think a debt can be inherited to someone that had nothing to do.
Let's say your parents got deeply in debt with a bank or blew out their cards to a point where it can't be paid in a lifetime, then they die or simply commit suicide for the stress. Should the bank start charging you the debt because "it has been passed down"? I don't think they should have the right of that.
@@davidcr566 By this logic, the red native Americans should've never received reparations since their land seizure happened many generations before the first reparations were paid. If they were never paid then the USA would be perfectly justified in denying black Americans reparations.
However, what’s not ok is setting a precedent, then selectively denying it to one group over another. Without land and labor, it's doubtful the USA would exist, and if it did exist, it definitely would not have become a super power we see today.
✌
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Who hell Coleman Hughes he don't speak for black America,