I got a new Bosch gen 4 Cube Stereo Action Team in January i absolutely love it now with the new updates, being able to max out the support mode now throughout all the modes is a massive massive improvement on the motor! Its like a launch control in turbo mode and ive not seen a massive drain in my battery with these maxed out either im very impressed! I am wanting the new TRP A12 EASI for it, trying to get info from TRP on date and price is madness! But now you mentioned the Gen 5 in September everything just clicked into place! It'll be announced with that as part of the new Gen 5 system!
The uphill constant speed is the most noticeable advantage i have seen so far of these motors. The Askoll on that super steep grippy climb did an amazing job, a lot though depends on the bikes. ITs rare to be able to get the bikes that have these motors and compare to the bigger brands to see what the differences are. I have never complained about the main brand motors, no wI have more experience with these im trying to understand what is being measured and how to get a clearer picture.
Alex this is a super interesting development, imagine this motor in a Canyon Spectral On with a 900w battery. And of course, your the man that could show us what that's like 😉
hmmm, maybe i could try fitting it in there...... battery is a nit oversized...... I could ask Askoll to send me a motor and battery that would fit.... you make it sound like im the only one out there talking sense.... lol
You come across as a genuine guy with honest impartial content u like some of the other mtb channels that feel like they are paid to promote stuff. Big bike brands that put products out that fail and then cut their customers loose after the warranty is gone need a shake up. Askoll & possibly polini might just doo that. Having the freedom to choose how you mix & match technology eould put the power in our hands as the consumer. Keep up the good work, it must be draining having to ride all these great bikes in such amazing locations all the time.....🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for your observations. Lots of things about the bike industry to unpack in public one day to bring a better end consumer experience. Some companies do a great job. Right now my opinion is that yes there are too many RUclipsrs not being straight.
Im loving after market motors comon the market. They just need to accommodate with bolt pattern styles so they can work for shimano or bosch generations
Something has always confused me about torque quotes. Dirt bikes (say 250cc) with 20Nm-ish compared to emtb with 85Nm ? Seems like the bikes should switch chain sizes. The "20Nm-ish" can be found from general google searches. I assume both are measured at the motor shaft, but 4 factor difference?
People demand more power, so the manufactures meet the market. The extra power chews through the battery so customers demand bigger batteries. The bigger batteries weigh so much the bikes need more power to ride well. So the manufacturer will end up making a more powerful motor, and so it goes on.
I feel its getting ridiculous now calling these 250W motors that only allows for a 7A controller at 36V but I know an earlier Bosch motor had a 23A controller so with a fresh 36V battery delivering 42V that is over 900W when hill climbing. It feels to me manufacturers keep pushing the envelope of what you can call a 250W ebike almost expecting to be stopped but they never are so they keep increasing the power. It's a strange marketplace where a mid-drive ebike can deliver 900W of power yet people complain that another type of ebike with 400W output is illegal despite the same 15.5mph assistance limit. I can honestly see 1200W mid-drive ebikes being sold in a few years and still having a 250W rating label. Certification should be fair and honest which sadly EU legislation isn't. It is just a mess probably designed to give European manufacturers a commercial advantage. I think the 30 second boost mode makes sense as mid-drive motors have thermal issues and struggle to cool themselves as have to remain water proof where they are so I feel that is probably the max overheat they are allowed. It's probably wise to avoid using it for the long term reliability of the motor.
Its all software torque on these motors bosch gen 4 is a 100nm max restricted to 85nm they can easily increase this if they wanted to but its all about the next generation motors having some safety net there to keep increasing the torque but they are maxed at 100nm I believe through some testing I know someone has done. They have a safety new margin up to atleast the Gen 7 using the same components and software in these motors the way the current settings are at the moment!
fun fact I asked someone how much torque his 900cc motorbike had and he told me 130Nm emtb are getting close lol of course it's not the same as an ICE and isn't going to maintain that for hundreds of miles but still, other than that about the "lies" I'm sure you've heard of the "VW gate" where Volkswagen was cheating emissions tests on diesel cars...but did you know that they actually sold cars more powerful than advertised ? lying to set them into a lower tier of taxes and whatnot, in the same vein all Ford Focus RS have more torque than advertised, the mk3 said to have 320lbs/ft has more like 390 which is quite the difference, number shenanigans are nothing new in the motor world
I think you're confusing power ( watts) and torque (nm) here. What makes motors like this and the new DJI feel 'powerful' is the peak wattage they're running at , in the case of the DJI that's 850w and 1000w in boost. Bosch and Shimano max out at 600w . Torque is pretty much irrelevant as it's just the turning effort and all motors have plenty enough to overcome any hill. Power (watts) is what gets the work done the more wattage the faster the work gets done. I think motor manufacturers may be playing a dangerous game with these high wattage outputs as lets not forget they're supposed to be 250w by law and Bosch, Shimano, Brose etc were already pushing it with their 600 watts ' peak' output. A wattage arms race could well end up with new legislation being introduced.
This is the thing. We need some testing on the Dyno. I don't have a dyno, so I am going based on ride feel. I assume that all motors must meet the specs they quote, but, the question is for how long? At what cadence? What is the actual constant support level? From riding so many motors I can feel that something is not the same despite the numbers being quoted by brands being compared to each other. Maybe they are using different scales? Different measurement methods? I don't know.
I got a new Bosch gen 4 Cube Stereo Action Team in January i absolutely love it now with the new updates, being able to max out the support mode now throughout all the modes is a massive massive improvement on the motor! Its like a launch control in turbo mode and ive not seen a massive drain in my battery with these maxed out either im very impressed! I am wanting the new TRP A12 EASI for it, trying to get info from TRP on date and price is madness! But now you mentioned the Gen 5 in September everything just clicked into place! It'll be announced with that as part of the new Gen 5 system!
yes gen 5 is on way, i have seen all the specs they were leaked online.
Great video. Thanks for the review
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for video !
Love the TQ 120 which is 15 km faster up the hill than average ones and very efficiently.
The uphill constant speed is the most noticeable advantage i have seen so far of these motors. The Askoll on that super steep grippy climb did an amazing job, a lot though depends on the bikes. ITs rare to be able to get the bikes that have these motors and compare to the bigger brands to see what the differences are. I have never complained about the main brand motors, no wI have more experience with these im trying to understand what is being measured and how to get a clearer picture.
Alex this is a super interesting development, imagine this motor in a Canyon Spectral On with a 900w battery.
And of course, your the man that could show us what that's like 😉
hmmm, maybe i could try fitting it in there...... battery is a nit oversized......
I could ask Askoll to send me a motor and battery that would fit....
you make it sound like im the only one out there talking sense.... lol
You come across as a genuine guy with honest impartial content u like some of the other mtb channels that feel like they are paid to promote stuff.
Big bike brands that put products out that fail and then cut their customers loose after the warranty is gone need a shake up. Askoll & possibly polini might just doo that.
Having the freedom to choose how you mix & match technology eould put the power in our hands as the consumer.
Keep up the good work, it must be draining having to ride all these great bikes in such amazing locations all the time.....🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for your observations. Lots of things about the bike industry to unpack in public one day to bring a better end consumer experience. Some companies do a great job. Right now my opinion is that yes there are too many RUclipsrs not being straight.
Im loving after market motors comon the market. They just need to accommodate with bolt pattern styles so they can work for shimano or bosch generations
I still think most people are over bike for the tipe of riding they do..but it good to see real world ride Comparisons ,
yes over biked all teh time
Something has always confused me about torque quotes. Dirt bikes (say 250cc) with 20Nm-ish compared to emtb with 85Nm ? Seems like the bikes should switch chain sizes. The "20Nm-ish" can be found from general google searches.
I assume both are measured at the motor shaft, but 4 factor difference?
Measured at the shaft yes. Im saying clearly, when you sit on both motors despite similar numbers, ther eis a vastly different ride feel.
@@alexbiketester I understand your comments and don't question them, just a side question of dirt bike vs emtb torque.
@@vashon100 Im not an expert on dirt bike torque, but I can certainly ask someone for you!
People demand more power, so the manufactures meet the market. The extra power chews through the battery so customers demand bigger batteries. The bigger batteries weigh so much the bikes need more power to ride well. So the manufacturer will end up making a more powerful motor, and so it goes on.
yes....
but wait.... maybe you can have light weight full power..............hahahha
I feel its getting ridiculous now calling these 250W motors that only allows for a 7A controller at 36V but I know an earlier Bosch motor had a 23A controller so with a fresh 36V battery delivering 42V that is over 900W when hill climbing. It feels to me manufacturers keep pushing the envelope of what you can call a 250W ebike almost expecting to be stopped but they never are so they keep increasing the power. It's a strange marketplace where a mid-drive ebike can deliver 900W of power yet people complain that another type of ebike with 400W output is illegal despite the same 15.5mph assistance limit. I can honestly see 1200W mid-drive ebikes being sold in a few years and still having a 250W rating label. Certification should be fair and honest which sadly EU legislation isn't. It is just a mess probably designed to give European manufacturers a commercial advantage. I think the 30 second boost mode makes sense as mid-drive motors have thermal issues and struggle to cool themselves as have to remain water proof where they are so I feel that is probably the max overheat they are allowed. It's probably wise to avoid using it for the long term reliability of the motor.
Its all software torque on these motors bosch gen 4 is a 100nm max restricted to 85nm they can easily increase this if they wanted to but its all about the next generation motors having some safety net there to keep increasing the torque but they are maxed at 100nm I believe through some testing I know someone has done. They have a safety new margin up to atleast the Gen 7 using the same components and software in these motors the way the current settings are at the moment!
How much does the bike weigh?
not weighed it yet... around 23
fun fact I asked someone how much torque his 900cc motorbike had and he told me 130Nm emtb are getting close lol of course it's not the same as an ICE and isn't going to maintain that for hundreds of miles but still, other than that about the "lies" I'm sure you've heard of the "VW gate" where Volkswagen was cheating emissions tests on diesel cars...but did you know that they actually sold cars more powerful than advertised ? lying to set them into a lower tier of taxes and whatnot, in the same vein all Ford Focus RS have more torque than advertised, the mk3 said to have 320lbs/ft has more like 390 which is quite the difference, number shenanigans are nothing new in the motor world
@@fredEVOIX sustained power is higher
I think you're confusing power ( watts) and torque (nm) here. What makes motors like this and the new DJI feel 'powerful' is the peak wattage they're running at , in the case of the DJI that's 850w and 1000w in boost. Bosch and Shimano max out at 600w . Torque is pretty much irrelevant as it's just the turning effort and all motors have plenty enough to overcome any hill. Power (watts) is what gets the work done the more wattage the faster the work gets done. I think motor manufacturers may be playing a dangerous game with these high wattage outputs as lets not forget they're supposed to be 250w by law and Bosch, Shimano, Brose etc were already pushing it with their 600 watts '
peak' output. A wattage arms race could well end up with new legislation being introduced.
A dangerous game indeed, the specialized product manager for ebikes said the same thing to me...
we're never gonna know without third party testin on an ebike dyno
This is the thing. We need some testing on the Dyno. I don't have a dyno, so I am going based on ride feel. I assume that all motors must meet the specs they quote, but, the question is for how long? At what cadence? What is the actual constant support level? From riding so many motors I can feel that something is not the same despite the numbers being quoted by brands being compared to each other. Maybe they are using different scales? Different measurement methods? I don't know.