What an excellent review! I love your calm delivery. It's almost soothing to hear you speak about audio (I can listen to you in the background as I do dishes/ housecleaning. I love that!). Keep up the fantastic work! Oh, and you've described NAD to a T. It's always been known to have the characteristics you've mentioned, so now I know I can trust your judgement entirely. Very, very well done.
Interesting review and comparison. I own the NAD C 298 and I enjoy it. You brought out an excellent point about support and service. Even if the Topping mono blocks sounded better to me in my listening room, I would still go for the NAD C 298 for the service and support aspect of it. I believe the availability of nearby or in-country service is a major aspect the of purchasing decision. Thanks.
I buy my topping gear from a local dealer, I had to return a DAC once (it had a blown fuse) there were no issues at all and the fuse they put in was a much better audiophile one at no cost to me
Another excellent review, informative and balanced! You get me both excited and place me at ease. Very rational and carefully weighed outcomes. strong and relevant comparisons. I've had a GoldNote PA 10 that I got on a discount and love it very much. Considering trying a Hypex Nilai power amp that a few have reviewed favorably, but would love to get your take on one of those against those you have in reference. Again, thank you.
I have had the C298 for well over a year. Perhaps my system isn’t perfect, but here goes. I use the NAD M10v1 which sends to a Schiit Freya+ tube PreAmp…that signal then goes into a Schiit Lokius and on to the C298…currently feeding ESS AMT1D Revivals…….i just love the sound…but I am still not sure which part makes the sound great. I know there probably are better preamps, but for my first foray into the world of tubes, I wouldn’t complain. I completely enjoy your reviews (and also marvel at your command of English…I was a Russian major in college years ago and could only wish…) Thank you!
I have the Audiophonics version of the Eigentact Purifi amplifier. Over a year of ownership it has become my 'end game' amp. And at less than half the price of the NAD, I cannot recommend it highly enough.
@@raphaelmeillat8527 Hi, I feed my AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S400ET with a miniDSP Flex [the balanced version]: file:///D:/Pending/00%20HiFi/0010%20Sources/miniDSP/miniDSP%20Flex/Product%20Brief-Flex.pdf This is an excellent combination because the 'full fat' balanced outputs on the flex allow me to bypass the amps buffer stage entirely, thus sending the signal directly from the inputs to the Purifi modules, allowing the lowest possible gain of 12.5dB and yielding the highest possible SINAD. Note: Even set at 12.5 dB gain, this beast of an amp [227W @ 8Ω, 1%THD] is powerful enough to drive my 91dB sensitivity speakers to levels in excess of what my medium sized listening room and ears can [or want too] handle.
@@raphaelmeillat8527 Hi, For whatever reason, my previous answer to your enquiry has been taken down! So, here is the cut down version: For a preamp I use a miniDSP Flex [balanced version.] This combination of pre amp/DAC and Amp delivers, in my opinion, spectacular results. Not least because the higher output from the Flex allows me to set an amp gain of 12.8dB [bypassing the buffer stage completely] thus yielding the best SINAD possible. Thanks for ther interest.
I suggest that when you review any equipment, you display the technical specs and price in text format on the screen so that the viewers can quickly come to this page and refer to it. Thanks.
I think you convinced me to buy topping b200 for my kef r3 meta. I m undecided between icepower 1200as2 and topping b200. What do you think? You are my favorite reviewer, because you know ho to express emotions and feelings about music reproduction on tested equipment. Not measurements and tehnical dates. Thanks for that!
I can't rate ice power as1200 highly enough. I have a Nord one 600wpc cost £900 new. Fed by a Doge 8 clarity valve preamp. All the words are there Full,Rich, Holographic,Clear, Spatial and the power...... the power just endless 🎧🎸🎵
I agree with you that a preamp very important, but there are a few DACs out there with a volume controls that are so good that a preamp is not necessary.
@@MasterofPlay7I'm not a current day NAD owner but they seem to be producing products that offer a lot. They have kept up with the times. Using Purifi modules before they became more mainstream popular. Adding Dirac to their products. Bluos integration. Variable volume input. Or maybe you meant something else when saying they are out of touch with reality? Maybe I misunderstood.
@@MasterofPlay7Which is what, precisely? Yes, NAD’s pricing has moved considerably upscale since their modest debut over 50 years ago, but there is a reality in which even their top end models are perfectly affordable for some folks. That said, while I loved the numerous pieces of the 70 series I owned “back in the day”, I’ve gravitated towards other brands for my two separate systems over the past 2 decades.
Thanks for review. NAD makes good equipment. In the US it’s referred to by the 3 letters - N, A, D. Good advice. Better to buy a DAC that can act as a preamp too. Rock on!
Great review, I really enjoy your videos. You mention the gain control can be used to further tune a system. How does that change things? Have you made another video on this? Thanks again for the great content. Cheers.
@@MacKinnonThomas As for (fine) “tuning” a system with the gain control, I think he’s referring to effectively reducing the amp’s input sensitivity (increasing the voltage required to bring it to maximum power), to better match the “sweet spot” on the source device’s generally logarithmic output volume control curve and speaker sensitivity. It can be a bit of a dance.
The usual high standard of reviewing without wasting time or being self-indulgent as too many US reviewers think is normal. I am older than NAD and recall how the modest-seeming 3020 caused many high end firms such as QUAD and NAIM to revise a few things, incidentally while praising the new company's achievement. NAD engineers had variously worked with QUAD and NAIM and NAD's founders were people who had been involved in the fad for LINN products. LINN's amps were actually made by NAIM and NAD's founders preferred music to hype by the Scottish company and UK hifi press. New Acoustic Dimensions saw the need for amplifiers and tuner-amps as standalone products not part of whole systems which had been the British, Japanese and Nordic trend and this proved to be fortuitous as speaker and front end developments often benefited from a central power/control piece of excellence. As the best phono cartridges back then were from the USA and some innovative (or revived) speaker brands were appearing in the UK, Italy, southern Europe and N.America, NAD appeared at the right time. Notably, it chose no fuss design, exact documentation with circuit diagrams, robust connectors over bling and, consequently, was able to keep prices down. If buyers wanted glitzy they could go for Marantz etc but NAD preferred simplicity. Most of their products which I have owned or tried have been excellent and they emphasize built quality but the C298 -- while good -- is not the best of their current, I think too wide, range. It is not an improvement on former pure power amps and is too expensive for what it is. It sits uncomfortably between its slightly smaller cousin and NAD's superb professional studio amp. Were I recommending a NAD product in the current range it would be the C31 BEE V2 integrated for plenty of power, excellent controls and source choices but I would use it with a separate DAC at the front end. As DACs function according to the converter chip(s) fitted, this is a sure way of enjoying NAD's neutrality + slope options where huge power output is not required. DACs with more than one converter chip per channel make no sense. NAD's promotion of BluOS is not something I expect from this company and perhaps be offered as an option with a reduction of prices to be consistent with NAD's pedigree, The comparison with the Topping B200 is not really like with like and needed a deeper dive, which I hope will follow. Dwelling on acquiring the product was off point and not much about sound and your subscribers are such because we like your insights. My first experience of Topping was a headphone DAC for my daughter whose two Fiios had not survived long journeys. The simple and robust Topping did, across 3 continents, and I kept an eye on the company since then. I am now a grandfather! Whereas such DACs of that time were often flimsy (including Creative's expensive ones), Topping impressed with simplicity, tough ports and switches and good battery life. Inspecting other Topping products in the last 3 years, I note high quality internals and neatness with unusually thoughtful case designs which protect mainboards on a sort of suspension reminiscent of Dell and ThinkPad laptops for professional use. I have not heard the B200s yet and expect to agree with the findings here. In the west we tend to forget that Oriental hearing is difference from occidental in psycho-physiological ways not fully understood but travelers to such as China often note a general taste for sonics which western ears might call "analytical". A clue might lie in the 1/4 tone intervals in oriental classical traditions.
I own one. It is clean, powerful and dynamic and lets the sound through without colouration really. The sound will depend on what speakers you have, but mine are in no way held back. It’s a much cheaper solution than NAD’s M series amps where you are paying for build and more features. I did get mine as a bargain open box offer,so I have no complaints!
Your analysis treads the line between objective and subjective review perfectly. Brilliant informative review. I have also noticed a slight up tick in film quality coming across in HD. Have you changed camera or lens recently?
Hello. I own a Nilai Stereo now. I owned a C298 , very nice en beautiful made amp. But in my setup it refused to make music. A friend has the same C298 and at his place it rocks !! After a few class A debacles i embrace class D now and I'm in love with the Hypex Nilai now.
Loving your reviews. My future plan was to get a purifi power amp and use a streamer like a wiim ultra and upgraded DAC possibly, are you suggesting that this is not a good idea and I'd need to add an analogue preamp to that as well?
Prijatelju jedno pitanje, Posto poznajes i Hegel h 390 a i Topping b 200 . Imam holo audio red,gustard a 26 ,Holo Serene KTE a koristim Hegel kao pojacalo. Dali bi bilo bolje ako bi kupio b 200 ili sta ti mislis?? Ili imas li ti koji bolji savet. Zvucnike imam Canton a 65 sa promenjenu Frequenz weiche (Mundorf Caps ) Pozdrav bato
Pozdrav. Slušao sam H390 u tuđem sistemu i ne tako skoro. Nisam nikada probao da koristim samo njegovo pojačalo kao što ti radiš... A pritom ni Serene nisam čuo pa nemam predstavu da li ni se tonski slagao sa B200. Pa bi bilo kakva preporuka ovde realno bila samo obično nagađanje sa moje strane.
Great review. I have the little brother Nad C268 power amp and have connected the SMSL D6s (your recommendation) directly to the power amp utilising the pre amp of the D6s and the sound quality is outstanding and surpasses my Audiolab CD8200Q DAC Pre Amp. The pre amps you mention costs lots of $$ and for folks on limited budgets then good sound can be had for little money which you try to advise to us. It would be interesting if you connect your D6s direct to the NAD and give your honest opinion as to how much you have to pay for significant sound improvement
I still have my NAD 302 integrated amp that I bought new back in the mid nineties. Other components have come and gone but the 302 is constant. Doesn't get as much use as it used to but I'm so happy I kept it. The intention was always to use it as a preamp with a Quad 6 power amp. That was back in the day when they were newer and from the same kind of era. It might yet happen but unfortunately older components are in need of more maintenance these days and I'm not at the skill level. Perhaps this power amp might be a better alternative. Don't know if I'd really get to hear what it could actually do using my 30 year old 302? Interestingly I had also wanted to pair this set up with a pair of KEFs, but that's my 20 year old fantasy hifi set up. Times has passed and the world has moved on quite a bit since.
Thanks for this excellent review and comparison. It would have been interesting to include the c268 priced at 1000 euros but with much less power in the comparison
Nice video. On Chi Fi, QC is usually goodnt, hard to deal with takes weeks to figure out if it goes well at best. If your lucky, a big if its a great bargain. Shipping for repairs could cost you double taxes and shipping costs unless you purchase from a locally represented online store not global direct outlets ie Amazon, Lazada, Shoppee with local presence.
It's more about the Voltage delieverd by the Pre/DAC/Interface. Most Purifi amps are on the lower side of amp gain, therefor a 'normal' output voltage of the pre tends to be too low and the amp can't deliever sufficent power on the output. That's it. Nowadays even mid class interfaces or preamps are soundwise on the 'high end' side without any doubt.
I think what you’re talking about is called system gain matching, and the input sensitivity of each link in the chain needs to be considered. For example with very highly sensitive speakers like, say large horn loaded Klipsches, etc, the combination of a high powered amp, pre-amp or DAC with high voltage output, it can be not only very easy to reach painfully loud (Carl) SPLs, but also for noise to encroach at more modest levels in the 60-low 70 dB range.
@@fonkenful Loud yes, noise shouldn't be an issue even with high spl speakers. It makes not much sense to feed an amp with 2.5 V that needs 5V+ to reach it's power specs. To be honest, not sure if the nad is this low in gain, but it's possible.
@ Looking at the specs, it appears to depend on the mode of operation - of which it has several. For folks using a single amp for stereo use in fixed gain mode it’s 28.6dB gain (1.43 V in for 185w @8ohm). As I’ve never been a fan of, or owned high “efficiency” speakers, the issue I’ve personally encountered with high output pre-amp /sources into high input sensitivity amps has been channel imbalance at very low listening levels, or “hair trigger” volume control -the latter most notably with stepped attenuator resistor types; give me an Alps RK27 Blue Velvet pot any day.
Very interesting insights. I am looking for my endgame amplifier in a higher price range. Initially, I thought of getting an integrated amplifier featuring the mature Class A/B technology from established brands like Accuphase, Luxman, etc. However, Class D competition is now gaining traction with technologies like Purifi and GaNFET. Additionally, Chinese manufacturers are entering the high-end market. I'm seriously considering acquiring a solid preamp, such as the Holo Audio Serene KTE, and then experimenting and rolling with modern monoblocks.
About DAC-power amp combo. OK, if I use preamp in between them you say it sounds much better. But DAC is still the same and mostly input resistanse of preamp and poweramp on the same level - do you mean sound degradation in DAC starts when you tune down volume by means of digital adjaster in DAC, or this happens from some other reasons? In other words does DAC with volume 100% sound much better than at say 20-50% volume output?
Great discussion of preamps as I have been using my Node straight to an amp with no preamp for 3 years now and have been trying to find out about this issue and nobody talks about it. Well Thomas interviewed some woman with like a million of dollars of stereo equipment and she said the preamp was the most important component. Point being, please start finding and reviewing preamps.
I was doing the same thing with a node 2i connected directly to my Rotel Amp but I found out that at lower level late night listening I was missing a lot of dynamics so I put back my old Rotel Preamp and everything was restored but I had lost my Rotel Remote so based on IWI recommendation I ordered the Ladder Preamp and have been happy with it so far. A small issue is with the remote that is very directional and has a misspelling on it ( Filllter ) !
I bought a Chord Hugo TT2 so that I could get rid of my Naim NAC202 preamp and simplify my system. The TT2 goes straight into my C298 and together they sound amazing.
The role of the preamp is to match the power amplifier to the source(besides the obvious tone,volume etc), which in some cases does not match by default (electrically) ...if you have good components(and I don't even mean expensive) that plain sound bad together there is a mismatch somewhere there shouldn't be any noticeable difference in tonality(your mileage may vary as some designs aren't as sensitive).
Yes. The preamp is so important. I tried the Denafrips Hestia pre into a little XTZ Edge class D amp (with Icepower module) and it brought a more layered and cohesive sound than previously, while maintaining the natural tonality. The old timers knew what they were doing when they said separates is the way to go.
Based on the NAD C298 vs Topping B200 comparison, it seems like the NAD M23 vs B200 would be a really interesting matchup too, to see how high the price level they can compete with is.
Hi, there is any sound difference between C298 and LPA-S400ET ? I have to change my amp and I'm focused on the HPA-S400ET Sparkos edition, did you test it ? thanks ;)
Very small differences. S400ET also sounds very smooth and refined, and also slightly laid back in the midrange (default op-amp) but I remember it is as slightly cleaner in the highs. A friend told me that Sparkos makes it sound more forward and punchier.
As far as big brands and reputable local shops go, I bought a Rotel from a very reputable shop here in New York. Had nothing but problems with it, one channel kept blowing and I schlepped it from Brooklyn into Manhattan several times with long waits between repairs eventually resulting in it being replaced by Rotel with a higher end refurbed unit. Eventually I replaced it with a mail order class D amp (XTZ Edge A2-300) and have been much happier. It sounds a 100 times better, was half the price and have had no issues. It's a risk but in my experience the big brands and local shops can still be a major pain even if they eventually come through and make you whole.
I would love you to do a video on the benefits of Class AB monoblocks versus Class D monoblocks. I’m looking at monoblocks right now: the Topping B200s are very attractive due to their price, but I can get Class D monoblocks for around the same price. Then there are other Class AB monoblocks which come in around $3,000 USD for the pair (Schitt Tyr, Kinki Studios, etc). What should we be looking for? How does this option compare to bridging stereo amps? Thank
Great review, thanks! I had an audiophonics Class D amp based on Hypex modules and it was also great and well build. I'm also with you about the necesary of a preamp. I used a Gustard R26 DAC connected directly to my amp and it was good. Now I use the same DAC but with the Gustard H26 as an preamp. Now it sounds better, exactly in the same way as you describe it here.
me too NCX500 based version: to make to max i'd inspired by Apollon NCX500 amps using also SparkOS opAmps thet makes sound greater. Looking into NAD it uses PURIFI previous gen and a custom buffer (i think also opAmp section).... in any case this modules are widely used by integrators (NAD, etc...). Real question is: is this worth to spend more than double of price tag? for me NOT! ....about preamp completely agree review but you don't need a 6k preamp... only a good DAC volume control (you can call it analog section): in my case DMP-A8 that sounds great with a R2R volume control on AKM4499... in any case sound depends also on sound source quality: best DSD on acoustic sounds (better nativeDSD recording). Try to trust!
I would like to hear a comparison with this NAD which is a heavily modified version of the Eigentakt module vs a real Purifi Eigentakt module like Audiophonics/March Audio/Nord/Apollon/VTV.
Yeah, a preamp is damn-near a "requirement" for the best SQ vs using a DAC directly into a power amplifier, IMO. Every single time I've hooked a DAC directly into a power amp - the sound has been harsher, "narrower", and less dynamic. I think it's 1000% the fault of the largely "stripped down" output stages of most DACs compared to dedicated preamps - that are that way because of manufacturing budgets and price-point constraints. Even the preamp section of my HP amp (which a is discrete Class A Gustard H20) outperforms the output stages of my dedicated DAC (SMSL SU-9 MQA DAC). Each piece in the system counts, IMO....
@ you should try it, to me they are incredible When you say we really need an analog preamp between the dac and the amplifier, is a DMP A8 ok ? (Because it has an analog preamp)
there are chinese clone versions of $30k+ designs, for pennies on the dollar. and the reviews are very positive for them. an example would be a DartZeel 108B clone for $700. would love to get your take on this area, assuming you actually listen to a few (and not dismiss them out of hand).
I generally find the recording engineers /producer tends to vary the gain either as album gain or individual track gain and when you are playing a specific track or album the variance in gain can be a distraction I find😊
When the NAD C298 came out it was 1599 euro. Due to Chinese marketing and politics the NAD is now way more expensive than it should be. Don't blame NAD .
Inflation has been trough the roof last few years. It's realistically bigger than official numbers. Everything got more expensive - cars, food... a snickers bar is twice the price it was those 3 years ago, even though it's not connected to Chinise marketing and policies.
@@iiWiReviewsYes, that's right , but Chinese policy has a big influence on the world market . And yes, everything is expensive these days. That's makes Class D and DIY products even more interesting Keep up the good work 👏
I suspect that this is a comparison between two different types of 'apples'. Both focus on aspects of audio, such as clarity, resolution and dynamics that are IMO, basic. Outstanding musicality and tonality are necessary to realist portrayal of the performance. What some describe as 'palpability', the sense of 'performers in the room' within a well defined soundstage that has height, as well as depth and width are, again IMO, the factors that separate mid-fi from high performing gear.
There is also the time period of repair, many Brands take months on repair time .. Regardless of what warranty you have, many items go to third party repairers, while they do a great job (mostly) they soon get backed up . No perfect system im afraid ..
Nad reliability on their standard C class is dubious at best high failure rate and plastic facia in this day and age for the price is a joke, Topping same thing, better off saving your pennies for better built equipment with good electronic parts
If you instead choose the B200s monoblocks, know that their external 4-Amp power supplies are not adequate, allowing less than 90 Watts on 8 Ohm speakers and less than 60 Watts on 4 Ohms.
Technically, you're right in that it stands for New Acoustic Dimension, but since acronyms are pronounced like words, everyone just calls the brand Nad, not necessarily N A D. That's how it's been spoken of in the industry since the company started.
Topping has some questionable reliability of its amplifiers and previously have not owned their issues through warranty etc. Recommend doing your research before purchase. Look on ASR etc.
NAD has to improve in their look or external design department. Their gears look like they belong to a nuclear plant. HiFi gears should look like furniture.
Class D plays so cleanly, smoothed, that the midrange is so dry, washed out of all the details of the sound in this range, that you don't want to try it. I returned with pleasure to class B, to the HK990, which has such power and at the same time dynamics and "tidbits" in the midrange, you want to listen to it.
To be honest, I never listened to any class d amplifier so far. I can only say that not one review convinced me to give it a try 😊 so I don´t have the feeling missing out on something for now..
Not really. And some of these new (AKA Ch-fi?) brands seem out of touch with the need for reliability, particularly with their cheaper offerings. Look around. There are very good and reliable modestly priced brands where you can get a proper guarantee.
@johncallaghan3097 I see these old brands get bankrupt soon enough, i just heard the darzeel got bankrupt, the economy isn't doing well I don't see how these hi end brands survive
@@chrisharris1522 Google the Future Audiophile magazine and search on that for "How Chi-Fi". In the resulting hit, you will read how most of the Chinese manufacturers actually embrace the term for themselves. While you're at it, look up the syntactic significance of a question mark.
@@chrisharris1522 Google the Future Audiophile magazine and search the site for "How Ch-Fi". In the resulting hit you will read that most Chinese manufacturers embrace the term "Chi-fi" for themselves, so according to your logic they are self-racially biased. While you're at it, google the syntactic significance of question marks and learn to distinguish nuance in the English language by the use of of qualifiers such as "some" and adverbs like "particularly". IMHO, your woke trolling is out of place. It is a fact that some cheaper Chinese goods have reliability and quality issues. As do some cheaper non-Chinese goods.
Yes, NAD is a brand name but it's not really on the list of real Audiophiles. I have one piece of NAD equipment in my whole house. It's a 5 channel A/V Processor and it lives in my basement woodworking shop paired with my Theta Dreadnaught driving James Loudspeaker in wall speakers. Non of this has the right to be on the house main floor among names like Audio Research, McIntosh, Esoteric, Krell, CARY, PS Audio etc. I'm not sure I'd even call it a step above the Japanese who are now fighting back with some very strong front end components.
What an excellent review! I love your calm delivery. It's almost soothing to hear you speak about audio (I can listen to you in the background as I do dishes/ housecleaning. I love that!). Keep up the fantastic work! Oh, and you've described NAD to a T. It's always been known to have the characteristics you've mentioned, so now I know I can trust your judgement entirely. Very, very well done.
Agree!🎉
You’re the most neutral and detailed hi-fi RUclipsr ever. Thank you for your awesome content and reviews. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Bruh… I wish I spoke a second language well enough to have a RUclips channel! You are doing GREAT!
🇨🇦
Great thorough review, thanks 🙏! Especially your remarks about (cheap) DAC’s with preamps.
Interesting review and comparison. I own the NAD C 298 and I enjoy it. You brought out an excellent point about support and service. Even if the Topping mono blocks sounded better to me in my listening room, I would still go for the NAD C 298 for the service and support aspect of it. I believe the availability of nearby or in-country service is a major aspect the of purchasing decision. Thanks.
I buy my topping gear from a local dealer, I had to return a DAC once (it had a blown fuse) there were no issues at all and the fuse they put in was a much better audiophile one at no cost to me
Another excellent review, informative and balanced! You get me both excited and place me at ease. Very rational and carefully weighed outcomes. strong and relevant comparisons. I've had a GoldNote PA 10 that I got on a discount and love it very much. Considering trying a Hypex Nilai power amp that a few have reviewed favorably, but would love to get your take on one of those against those you have in reference. Again, thank you.
I have had the C298 for well over a year. Perhaps my system isn’t perfect, but here goes. I use the NAD M10v1 which sends to a Schiit Freya+ tube PreAmp…that signal then goes into a Schiit Lokius and on to the C298…currently feeding ESS AMT1D Revivals…….i just love the sound…but I am still not sure which part makes the sound great. I know there probably are better preamps, but for my first foray into the world of tubes, I wouldn’t complain. I completely enjoy your reviews (and also marvel at your command of English…I was a Russian major in college years ago and could only wish…) Thank you!
Thanks for another excellent review.
I have the Audiophonics version of the Eigentact Purifi amplifier. Over a year of ownership it has become my 'end game' amp.
And at less than half the price of the NAD, I cannot recommend it highly enough.
Audiophonics guys do a great job indeed. Good reco as they deserve more credit indeed. What preamp are you using by the way?
@@raphaelmeillat8527 Hi, I feed my AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S400ET with a miniDSP Flex [the balanced version]: file:///D:/Pending/00%20HiFi/0010%20Sources/miniDSP/miniDSP%20Flex/Product%20Brief-Flex.pdf
This is an excellent combination because the 'full fat' balanced outputs on the flex allow me to bypass the amps buffer stage entirely, thus sending the signal
directly from the inputs to the Purifi modules, allowing the lowest possible gain of 12.5dB and yielding the highest possible SINAD.
Note: Even set at 12.5 dB gain, this beast of an amp [227W @ 8Ω, 1%THD] is powerful enough to drive my 91dB sensitivity speakers to levels in excess of what my
medium sized listening room and ears can [or want too] handle.
@@raphaelmeillat8527 Hi,
For whatever reason, my previous answer to your enquiry has been taken down!
So, here is the cut down version:
For a preamp I use a miniDSP Flex [balanced version.] This combination of pre amp/DAC and Amp delivers, in my opinion, spectacular results.
Not least because the higher output from the Flex allows me to set an amp gain of 12.8dB [bypassing the buffer stage completely] thus yielding the best SINAD possible.
Thanks for ther interest.
Please make a ranking about how highly regarded different class D amplification modules are: purifi, ICE, Hypex etc
I suggest that when you review any equipment, you display the technical specs and price in text format on the screen so that the viewers can quickly come to this page and refer to it. Thanks.
I think you convinced me to buy topping b200 for my kef r3 meta. I m undecided between icepower 1200as2 and topping b200. What do you think? You are my favorite reviewer, because you know ho to express emotions and feelings about music reproduction on tested equipment. Not measurements and tehnical dates. Thanks for that!
I can't rate ice power as1200 highly enough. I have a Nord one 600wpc cost £900 new.
Fed by a Doge 8 clarity valve preamp.
All the words are there
Full,Rich, Holographic,Clear, Spatial and the power...... the power just endless
🎧🎸🎵
I agree with you that a preamp very important, but there are a few DACs out there with a volume controls that are so good that a preamp is not necessary.
Definitely. I love my various preamps but I have a RME Dac which I feel is a pretty dang good preamp. Especially with low gain power amps.
Nuprime dac 9se?
Yes, I use a Chord Hugo TT2 to feed straight into my NAD C298.
SMSL D6s connected direct to NAD C268 is excellent
@@NosEL34To bad the RME doesn't have an analog input (reffering to the adi2fs)
NAD = “New Acoustic Dimension” - If I recall correctly.
Exactly correct. Because it's an acronym, I pronounce it "In Ay Dee".
There's nothing new, these old brands are out of touch with reality
@@MasterofPlay7I'm not a current day NAD owner but they seem to be producing products that offer a lot. They have kept up with the times. Using Purifi modules before they became more mainstream popular. Adding Dirac to their products. Bluos integration. Variable volume input. Or maybe you meant something else when saying they are out of touch with reality? Maybe I misunderstood.
@@MasterofPlay7Which is what, precisely? Yes, NAD’s pricing has moved considerably upscale since their modest debut over 50 years ago, but there is a reality in which even their top end models are perfectly affordable for some folks. That said, while I loved the numerous pieces of the 70 series I owned “back in the day”, I’ve gravitated towards other brands for my two separate systems over the past 2 decades.
Yes.
Have I mentioned that my Tradutto is on Fire? Great review. Cool runnings
Thanks for review. NAD makes good equipment. In the US it’s referred to by the 3 letters - N, A, D. Good advice. Better to buy a DAC that can act as a preamp too. Rock on!
Most listeners will have a preamp, I’d rather see the money spent on making the dac better than including a mediocre volume control.
Great review, I really enjoy your videos. You mention the gain control can be used to further tune a system. How does that change things? Have you made another video on this? Thanks again for the great content. Cheers.
@@MacKinnonThomas As for (fine) “tuning” a system with the gain control, I think he’s referring to effectively reducing the amp’s input sensitivity (increasing the voltage required to bring it to maximum power), to better match the “sweet spot” on the source device’s generally logarithmic output volume control curve and speaker sensitivity. It can be a bit of a dance.
Great review. Can you also review the Topping B100 and the new Schiit Wotan?
Great comparisons. Thanks.
The usual high standard of reviewing without wasting time or being self-indulgent as too many US reviewers think is normal.
I am older than NAD and recall how the modest-seeming 3020 caused many high end firms such as QUAD and NAIM to revise a few things, incidentally while praising the new company's achievement. NAD engineers had variously worked with QUAD and NAIM and NAD's founders were people who had been involved in the fad for LINN products. LINN's amps were actually made by NAIM and NAD's founders preferred music to hype by the Scottish company and UK hifi press.
New Acoustic Dimensions saw the need for amplifiers and tuner-amps as standalone products not part of whole systems which had been the British, Japanese and Nordic trend and this proved to be fortuitous as speaker and front end developments often benefited from a central power/control piece of excellence. As the best phono cartridges back then were from the USA and some innovative (or revived) speaker brands were appearing in the UK, Italy, southern Europe and N.America, NAD appeared at the right time. Notably, it chose no fuss design, exact documentation with circuit diagrams, robust connectors over bling and, consequently, was able to keep prices down. If buyers wanted glitzy they could go for Marantz etc but NAD preferred simplicity.
Most of their products which I have owned or tried have been excellent and they emphasize built quality but the C298 -- while good -- is not the best of their current, I think too wide, range.
It is not an improvement on former pure power amps and is too expensive for what it is. It sits uncomfortably between its slightly smaller cousin and NAD's superb professional studio amp.
Were I recommending a NAD product in the current range it would be the C31 BEE V2 integrated for plenty of power, excellent controls and source choices but I would use it with a separate DAC at the front end. As DACs function according to the converter chip(s) fitted, this is a sure way of enjoying NAD's neutrality + slope options where huge power output is not required. DACs with more than one converter chip per channel make no sense.
NAD's promotion of BluOS is not something I expect from this company and perhaps be offered as an option with a reduction of prices to be consistent with NAD's pedigree,
The comparison with the Topping B200 is not really like with like and needed a deeper dive, which I hope will follow. Dwelling on acquiring the product was off point and not much about sound and your subscribers are such because we like your insights.
My first experience of Topping was a headphone DAC for my daughter whose two Fiios had not survived long journeys. The simple and robust Topping did, across 3 continents, and I kept an eye on the company since then. I am now a grandfather!
Whereas such DACs of that time were often flimsy (including Creative's expensive ones), Topping impressed with simplicity, tough ports and switches and good battery life.
Inspecting other Topping products in the last 3 years, I note high quality internals and neatness with unusually thoughtful case designs which protect mainboards on a sort of suspension reminiscent of Dell and ThinkPad laptops for professional use.
I have not heard the B200s yet and expect to agree with the findings here. In the west we tend to forget that Oriental hearing is difference from occidental in psycho-physiological ways not fully understood but travelers to such as China often note a general taste for sonics which western ears might call "analytical". A clue might lie in the 1/4 tone intervals in oriental classical traditions.
I own one. It is clean, powerful and dynamic and lets the sound through without colouration really. The sound will depend on what speakers you have, but mine are in no way held back. It’s a much cheaper solution than NAD’s M series amps where you are paying for build and more features. I did get mine as a bargain open box offer,so I have no complaints!
Your analysis treads the line between objective and subjective review perfectly. Brilliant informative review. I have also noticed a slight up tick in film quality coming across in HD. Have you changed camera or lens recently?
You should try to get your hands on some Hypex Nilai Monoblocks to see how they compare.
Hello.
I own a Nilai Stereo now.
I owned a C298 , very nice en beautiful made amp. But in my setup it refused to make music. A friend has the same C298 and at his place it rocks !!
After a few class A debacles i embrace class D now and I'm in love with the Hypex Nilai now.
@@jakobgooijer That's great. What preamp are you using?
@@D1N02Denafrips Hestia and an old Tube Technology Seer ( with several recaps etc)
Denafrips Hestia and an older Tube Technology Seer with recaps etc
That NAD 298 is HybridDigital Purifi Eigentakt™ technology
That is some really nice class D technology
Technical specs can be easily found online if you just type in google.
THANKS SRBJ 🙏FOR SHARING THIS 😎🤗💚💚💚
Loving your reviews. My future plan was to get a purifi power amp and use a streamer like a wiim ultra and upgraded DAC possibly, are you suggesting that this is not a good idea and I'd need to add an analogue preamp to that as well?
Prijatelju jedno pitanje,
Posto poznajes i Hegel h 390 a i Topping b 200 . Imam holo audio red,gustard a 26 ,Holo Serene KTE a koristim Hegel kao pojacalo. Dali bi bilo bolje ako bi kupio b 200 ili sta ti mislis??
Ili imas li ti koji bolji savet.
Zvucnike imam Canton a 65 sa promenjenu Frequenz weiche (Mundorf Caps )
Pozdrav bato
Pozdrav. Slušao sam H390 u tuđem sistemu i ne tako skoro. Nisam nikada probao da koristim samo njegovo pojačalo kao što ti radiš... A pritom ni Serene nisam čuo pa nemam predstavu da li ni se tonski slagao sa B200. Pa bi bilo kakva preporuka ovde realno bila samo obično nagađanje sa moje strane.
@ hvala buraz.. pratimo ja i drug stalno tvoje novosti. Bravo ,samo napred..
Great review. I have the little brother Nad C268 power amp and have connected the SMSL D6s (your recommendation) directly to the power amp utilising the pre amp of the D6s and the sound quality is outstanding and surpasses my Audiolab CD8200Q DAC Pre Amp. The pre amps you mention costs lots of $$ and for folks on limited budgets then good sound can be had for little money which you try to advise to us. It would be interesting if you connect your D6s direct to the NAD and give your honest opinion as to how much you have to pay for significant sound improvement
Would you advise using a E70 as a preamp? Would you recommend any other Topping Dac for the Preamp?
I still have my NAD 302 integrated amp that I bought new back in the mid nineties. Other components have come and gone but the 302 is constant. Doesn't get as much use as it used to but I'm so happy I kept it. The intention was always to use it as a preamp with a Quad 6 power amp. That was back in the day when they were newer and from the same kind of era. It might yet happen but unfortunately older components are in need of more maintenance these days and I'm not at the skill level. Perhaps this power amp might be a better alternative. Don't know if I'd really get to hear what it could actually do using my 30 year old 302? Interestingly I had also wanted to pair this set up with a pair of KEFs, but that's my 20 year old fantasy hifi set up. Times has passed and the world has moved on quite a bit since.
Thanks for this excellent review and comparison. It would have been interesting to include the c268 priced at 1000 euros but with much less power in the comparison
At high SPLs, how does the topping compare to the NAD? Would be great to know. Fabulous rewiew. Thank you!
Up to the levels that I find comfortable in my room, that's around 90 dB, it fares great. Doesn't feel strained or lacking scale like small chip amps.
Nice video. On Chi Fi, QC is usually goodnt, hard to deal with takes weeks to figure out if it goes well at best. If your lucky, a big if its a great bargain. Shipping for repairs could cost you double taxes and shipping costs unless you purchase from a locally represented online store not global direct outlets ie Amazon, Lazada, Shoppee with local presence.
It's more about the Voltage delieverd by the Pre/DAC/Interface. Most Purifi amps are on the lower side of amp gain, therefor a 'normal' output voltage of the pre tends to be too low and the amp can't deliever sufficent power on the output. That's it.
Nowadays even mid class interfaces or preamps are soundwise on the 'high end' side without any doubt.
I think what you’re talking about is called system gain matching, and the input sensitivity of each link in the chain needs to be considered. For example with very highly sensitive speakers like, say large horn loaded Klipsches, etc, the combination of a high powered amp, pre-amp or DAC with high voltage output, it can be not only very easy to reach painfully loud (Carl) SPLs, but also for noise to encroach at more modest levels in the 60-low 70 dB range.
@@fonkenful Loud yes, noise shouldn't be an issue even with high spl speakers.
It makes not much sense to feed an amp with 2.5 V that needs 5V+ to reach it's power specs. To be honest, not sure if the nad is this low in gain, but it's possible.
@ Looking at the specs, it appears to depend on the mode of operation - of which it has several. For folks using a single amp for stereo use in fixed gain mode it’s 28.6dB gain (1.43 V in for 185w @8ohm). As I’ve never been a fan of, or owned high “efficiency” speakers, the issue I’ve personally encountered with high output pre-amp /sources into high input sensitivity amps has been channel imbalance at very low listening levels, or “hair trigger” volume control -the latter most notably with stepped attenuator resistor types; give me an Alps RK27 Blue Velvet pot any day.
You think is any chance to review Gustard X30 or Musician Taurus soon? I think that's the DAC battle of the year.
Very interesting insights. I am looking for my endgame amplifier in a higher price range. Initially, I thought of getting an integrated amplifier featuring the mature Class A/B technology from established brands like Accuphase, Luxman, etc. However, Class D competition is now gaining traction with technologies like Purifi and GaNFET. Additionally, Chinese manufacturers are entering the high-end market. I'm seriously considering acquiring a solid preamp, such as the Holo Audio Serene KTE, and then experimenting and rolling with modern monoblocks.
Thanks bro🙏
About DAC-power amp combo. OK, if I use preamp in between them you say it sounds much better. But DAC is still the same and mostly input resistanse of preamp and poweramp on the same level - do you mean sound degradation in DAC starts when you tune down volume by means of digital adjaster in DAC, or this happens from some other reasons? In other words does DAC with volume 100% sound much better than at say 20-50% volume output?
Great discussion of preamps as I have been using my Node straight to an amp with no preamp for 3 years now and have been trying to find out about this issue and nobody talks about it. Well Thomas interviewed some woman with like a million of dollars of stereo equipment and she said the preamp was the most important component. Point being, please start finding and reviewing preamps.
I was doing the same thing with a node 2i connected directly to my Rotel Amp but I found out that at lower level late night listening I was missing a lot of dynamics so I put back my old Rotel Preamp and everything was restored but I had lost my Rotel Remote so based on IWI recommendation I ordered the Ladder Preamp and have been happy with it so far. A small issue is with the remote that is very directional and has a misspelling on it ( Filllter ) !
I bought a Chord Hugo TT2 so that I could get rid of my Naim NAC202 preamp and simplify my system. The TT2 goes straight into my C298 and together they sound amazing.
Would you recommend a pre amp or can you connect something like a Topping D90III straight to the power amp?
The Fulcrum is still not on Acoustic Invader's site. 😭
The role of the preamp is to match the power amplifier to the source(besides the obvious tone,volume etc), which in some cases does not match by default (electrically) ...if you have good components(and I don't even mean expensive) that plain sound bad together there is a mismatch somewhere there shouldn't be any noticeable difference in tonality(your mileage may vary as some designs aren't as sensitive).
Yes. The preamp is so important. I tried the Denafrips Hestia pre into a little XTZ Edge class D amp (with Icepower module) and it brought a more layered and cohesive sound than previously, while maintaining the natural tonality. The old timers knew what they were doing when they said separates is the way to go.
Based on the NAD C298 vs Topping B200 comparison, it seems like the NAD M23 vs B200 would be a really interesting matchup too, to see how high the price level they can compete with is.
Good review ! Did you hear Shiit TYR mono poweramps ? They are supposed to be very good ... would like to know your oppinion ...
Hi, there is any sound difference between C298 and LPA-S400ET ? I have to change my amp and I'm focused on the HPA-S400ET Sparkos edition, did you test it ? thanks ;)
Very small differences. S400ET also sounds very smooth and refined, and also slightly laid back in the midrange (default op-amp) but I remember it is as slightly cleaner in the highs. A friend told me that Sparkos makes it sound more forward and punchier.
As far as big brands and reputable local shops go, I bought a Rotel from a very reputable shop here in New York. Had nothing but problems with it, one channel kept blowing and I schlepped it from Brooklyn into Manhattan several times with long waits between repairs eventually resulting in it being replaced by Rotel with a higher end refurbed unit. Eventually I replaced it with a mail order class D amp (XTZ Edge A2-300) and have been much happier. It sounds a 100 times better, was half the price and have had no issues. It's a risk but in my experience the big brands and local shops can still be a major pain even if they eventually come through and make you whole.
I would love you to do a video on the benefits of Class AB monoblocks versus Class D monoblocks. I’m looking at monoblocks right now: the Topping B200s are very attractive due to their price, but I can get Class D monoblocks for around the same price. Then there are other Class AB monoblocks which come in around $3,000 USD for the pair (Schitt Tyr, Kinki Studios, etc). What should we be looking for? How does this option compare to bridging stereo amps?
Thank
Great review, thanks!
I had an audiophonics Class D amp based on Hypex modules and it was also great and well build.
I'm also with you about the necesary of a preamp. I used a Gustard R26 DAC connected directly to my amp and it was good.
Now I use the same DAC but with the Gustard H26 as an preamp. Now it sounds better, exactly in the same way as you describe it here.
me too NCX500 based version: to make to max i'd inspired by Apollon NCX500 amps using also SparkOS opAmps thet makes sound greater. Looking into NAD it uses PURIFI previous gen and a custom buffer (i think also opAmp section).... in any case this modules are widely used by integrators (NAD, etc...). Real question is: is this worth to spend more than double of price tag? for me NOT! ....about preamp completely agree review but you don't need a 6k preamp... only a good DAC volume control (you can call it analog section): in my case DMP-A8 that sounds great with a R2R volume control on AKM4499... in any case sound depends also on sound source quality: best DSD on acoustic sounds (better nativeDSD recording).
Try to trust!
I would like to hear a comparison with this NAD which is a heavily modified version of the Eigentakt module vs a real Purifi Eigentakt module like Audiophonics/March Audio/Nord/Apollon/VTV.
Yeah, a preamp is damn-near a "requirement" for the best SQ vs using a DAC directly into a power amplifier, IMO. Every single time I've hooked a DAC directly into a power amp - the sound has been harsher, "narrower", and less dynamic. I think it's 1000% the fault of the largely "stripped down" output stages of most DACs compared to dedicated preamps - that are that way because of manufacturing budgets and price-point constraints. Even the preamp section of my HP amp (which a is discrete Class A Gustard H20) outperforms the output stages of my dedicated DAC (SMSL SU-9 MQA DAC). Each piece in the system counts, IMO....
Do you have a B200 vs LA90D comparison somewhere ?
No, I never had LA90D. I should have but something went wrong with the plan.
@ you should try it, to me they are incredible
When you say we really need an analog preamp between the dac and the amplifier, is a DMP A8 ok ? (Because it has an analog preamp)
@@geekosa63 Yes it is!
Thanks 🙏 You should really do a comparison to IOTAVX AVXP 2-840 or at least PA40☝
I am waiting for my Toppings now, but they have a shortage. It's been few weeks.
there are chinese clone versions of $30k+ designs, for pennies on the dollar. and the reviews are very positive for them. an example would be a DartZeel 108B clone for $700. would love to get your take on this area, assuming you actually listen to a few (and not dismiss them out of hand).
Excellent review - the Topping B200 bass performance has not impressed me in the recordings I have heard, perhaps that is component matching though.
Purifi is top end stuff, really really powerful and clean, can drive to ear drum bursting levels.
NAD beats the Acoustic Invader on price... Interesting
As usual, I am missing a mention on the speaker pairing.
I generally find the recording engineers /producer tends to vary the gain either as album gain or individual track gain and when you are playing a specific track or album the variance in gain can be a distraction I find😊
absolut top quality reviwe. great chanel, thx
GREAT MUSIC!!!!!
I have never heard a system that sounds really good at volume levels below 50%.
Could anyone out there put forward some other mono power amp options that have auto sensing tech. My lumin all in one doesn't have trigger
#suggestion Have you tried the Vista Audio Zest amplifier?
are you using 1 pair of speakers for a review?
I keep several pairs around for testing purposes.
@@iiWiReviewsthat makes your opinion even more reliable. Thanks 😊
When the NAD C298 came out it was 1599 euro. Due to Chinese marketing and politics the NAD is now way more expensive than it should be. Don't blame NAD .
Inflation has been trough the roof last few years. It's realistically bigger than official numbers. Everything got more expensive - cars, food... a snickers bar is twice the price it was those 3 years ago, even though it's not connected to Chinise marketing and policies.
@@iiWiReviewsYes, that's right , but Chinese policy has a big influence on the world market .
And yes, everything is expensive these days. That's makes Class D and DIY products even more interesting
Keep up the good work 👏
I suspect that this is a comparison between two different types of 'apples'. Both focus on aspects of audio, such as clarity, resolution and dynamics that are IMO, basic.
Outstanding musicality and tonality are necessary to realist portrayal of the performance. What some describe as 'palpability', the sense of 'performers in the room' within a well defined soundstage that has height, as well as depth and width are, again IMO, the factors that separate mid-fi from high performing gear.
I try square wave to this NAD , signal out has a lot of ringing over shot. It is not transparent as they claim 😮😮😮😮😮
There is also the time period of repair, many Brands take months on repair time .. Regardless of what warranty you have, many items go to third party repairers, while they do a great job (mostly) they soon get backed up . No perfect system im afraid ..
Nad reliability on their standard C class is dubious at best high failure rate and plastic facia in this day and age for the price is a joke, Topping same thing, better off saving your pennies for better built equipment with good electronic parts
If you instead choose the B200s monoblocks, know that their external 4-Amp power supplies are not adequate, allowing less than 90 Watts on 8 Ohm speakers and less than 60 Watts on 4 Ohms.
Can you make clear to someone by describing this in more detail or revealing relevant facts because your remark is so “hear say”.
Very well done. Your descriptive prose and explanations of audio hardware make it simple to understand. Much respect.
Nice review, The nad has the purifi AT400 module inside. So its is better the buy from Buckeye, Apollon audio or Boxum, it is alot cheaper.
As much as I love my Parasound 2125v2 amp for my GoldenEar BRX speakers, I've upgraded to the NAD C298 amp (similar to NAD M23).
My requirements (
I think it is pronounced separately, N - A - D
Do you pronounce Kef separately?
Natty 😆
Technically, you're right in that it stands for New Acoustic Dimension, but since acronyms are pronounced like words, everyone just calls the brand Nad, not necessarily N A D. That's how it's been spoken of in the industry since the company started.
Meaning one nut
Topping has some questionable reliability of its amplifiers and previously have not owned their issues through warranty etc. Recommend doing your research before purchase. Look on ASR etc.
Then buy through a local dealer
NAD has to improve in their look or external design department. Their gears look like they belong to a nuclear plant. HiFi gears should look like furniture.
Are the gears manual or automatic?
Class D plays so cleanly, smoothed, that the midrange is so dry, washed out of all the details of the sound in this range, that you don't want to try it. I returned with pleasure to class B, to the HK990, which has such power and at the same time dynamics and "tidbits" in the midrange, you want to listen to it.
To be honest, I never listened to any class d amplifier so far. I can only say that not one review convinced me to give it a try 😊 so I don´t have the feeling missing out on something for now..
These old brands are out of touch with their pricing
Not really. And some of these new (AKA Ch-fi?) brands seem out of touch with the need for reliability, particularly with their cheaper offerings. Look around. There are very good and reliable modestly priced brands where you can get a proper guarantee.
@johncallaghan3097 I see these old brands get bankrupt soon enough, i just heard the darzeel got bankrupt, the economy isn't doing well I don't see how these hi end brands survive
@@johncallaghan3097 (AKA Racist-much?)
@@chrisharris1522 Google the Future Audiophile magazine and search on that for "How Chi-Fi". In the resulting hit, you will read how most of the Chinese manufacturers actually embrace the term for themselves.
While you're at it, look up the syntactic significance of a question mark.
@@chrisharris1522 Google the Future Audiophile magazine and search the site for "How Ch-Fi". In the resulting hit you will read that most Chinese manufacturers embrace the term "Chi-fi" for themselves, so according to your logic they are self-racially biased.
While you're at it, google the syntactic significance of question marks and learn to distinguish nuance in the English language by the use of of qualifiers such as "some" and adverbs like "particularly".
IMHO, your woke trolling is out of place. It is a fact that some cheaper Chinese goods have reliability and quality issues. As do some cheaper non-Chinese goods.
yes.over priced for sure. parasound a 23 + would be a better buy.@ almost 1k less.topping sure has a lot of fans.but no rca inputs.
RCA is a downgrade. Balanced circuits are better. Provably
Yes, NAD is a brand name but it's not really on the list of real Audiophiles. I have one piece of NAD equipment in my whole house. It's a 5 channel A/V Processor and it lives in my basement woodworking shop paired with my Theta Dreadnaught driving James Loudspeaker in wall speakers. Non of this has the right to be on the house main floor among names like Audio Research, McIntosh, Esoteric, Krell, CARY, PS Audio etc. I'm not sure I'd even call it a step above the Japanese who are now fighting back with some very strong front end components.
NAD is N. A. D. TAD, however, is pronounced Tad.
I can save a thousand dollars...buy the Klipsch Nines and have an amp, dac and speaker with all the high tech features one needs. Why?