I do think Destro is being a bit overvalued as its high parsing numbers are somewhat due to the fact it has significantly less parses than demo/afflic. Twin Dragons has 250 destro parses while afflic sits at 1200 and demo has over 3000 parses so the lower end of those specs will make destro appear to parse better when its closer to equal despite the 15% dmg boost you mentioned. A tier and ahead of demo feels too high for destro.
Just my opinion but hearing alot of people dont like demo play style. Demo is better and high end players it will be better. For a casual who might not be good at or enjoy demo can put up around the same numbers and maybe feels less like a chore and more fun But for hype reasons looking are dps boss by boss destro is doing really well so maybe if more people play and optimize can they get more out of it
Ret is definitely a very finicky spec. Its easy to play it wrong and has a ton of nuance into playing it to its full potential. Positioning, priority spells and timings... and knowing when to use a divine purpose proc over an art of war proc, or hammer of wrath during avenging wrath window... when to renew/start inquisition and how to utilize zealotry. Timing cooldown usage during guardian of ancient kings is also crucial as you lose a ton of potential damage by doing it too early or too late.
R.I.P to the ret pally. Blizz destroyed the cleave. Not enough rolling crits even if you’re rng proc rate is through the roof one fight, I find I crit less than half the time. Super sad.
I like how you pointed out it’s hard to tell mono cat from bear cause they’re both “feral druid” now! I remember correctly feral Druid is cat while guardian Druid is bear. WCL is so broken this expansion they couldn’t recognize one another
If you go down just a bit to 90th percentile already MM hunter dmg is beating all of the A, B and C tier specs, but is still relegated to D tier overall since its just not quite as good as survival? No mention of the utility of having another ranged interrupt or instant CD refresh with readiness? I don't understand the continued disregard for MM even when its raw performance is above average and has roughly equal utility to the other hunter specs.
Because by playing MM and Not Survival you are gimping your raids overall dps. If you already have a Survival Hunter in your raid then sure rock MM imo
My poor Amage :( sent right into the trash can with p1. I'm sold to Arcane mage since cataclysm original release and had so many Fmage trashtalking or showing their pride for playing "such a strong" spec being all superior and all. Well good for them, but don't come crying when hou don't proc a single thing during a combust window while I take my own destiny in charge with knowledge and mana management. I still don't understand why people stills kick on sight mages that aren't playing fire even outside of HL content even if the ones that are playing fire in the group are doing less dmg, effective and doesn't provide either the 3% dmg buff or the 3% crit which they have on them anyway thanks to the arcane they just kicked "for playing something else than fire"
I still don't get why people put Rdruid above Holy Priest and not equal lol... I mean, they both lack Raid defensive CDs, and if we look at Raid healing, Divine Hymn is waaaaay stronger than Tranquility... Also, Prot Warriors would def be B tier instead of C tier imo... But I guess I'm thinking about good players.
Because druids just have a lot more output and mana sustain than holy priest and still has tree form + tranq making theirs stronger( don't forget berserk for troll aswell which most r druids are. Most Hpriest players are goblin human or belf ATM.) Hpriest is dog water tier.
Prot warrior is absolutely fine-- I even raid on one in my splits. But it's rated against the other tanks where it falls behind the other options, even if it's perfectly viable and even the best option on some encounters.
@@Riyaniwow are you sure prot warriors are fine? everywhere i go i hear "prot warriors suck" "prot warrior is garbage" like they are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of tanks. And others say they're fine, i feel like i'm getting mixed responses from most people.
@@StrategicLemon If you use them for what they are designed for in Cataclysm, being an off-tank, then they are fine for sure. Cleared 13/13 25 HC on mine yesterday and while I was definitely not as tanky as my blood DK, it wasn't a big problem. Just have to play around your defensive cooldowns a bit more and call for external cooldowns.
I think its mostly because they start to shine after some 372 pieces. Im super unlucky with shadow orbs, got another spriest raiding with me and boy its night and day when one of us procs orbs asap or not.
TBH I find too much theory and too little practice in this tier list. I have been playing all 4 healers in 10-man HC and the facts are a little bit different. Holy Paladins have nowhere near the shown throughput. In 10-man AoE healing is much harder to execute, especially in a PUG where ppl don't stack or stack too loose. They have the highest skill cap and there is a big chance your HPal partner kills your raid by not using the spec to its potential. Disc priest's 8-10k DPS is not possible in an average HC fight unless you are being carried by a 95+ logging healer partner but it's so versatile and reactive spec, who can easily save low-hp targets, that if I wanted one healer spec to always be in my 10 man, it would be a disc priest. The biggest strength of a resto shaman's DPS is not LB spam but the fire ele that does its job when you AFK heal or do the mechanics and is the main reason you want a resto shaman on Rohash. From a healing standpoint, resto shaman shines not because of spirit link totem but because of a unique 10% HP buff and 10% physical damage reduction buff that is shared with priests but has WAY better uptime with a resto shaman, especially in 2 tank fights. With a resto shaman, you will have the least "random" tank deaths. Resto druid is always a step behind the damage happening, slow to react, praying that your HoTs are faster than boss damage. Nourish and Healing Touch have ridiculously long cast times. Sorry, but it's a tier below a resto shaman, at least for Tier 1 content.
As one of the high performing frost dks… how dare you bump me down!! 🤣🤣 Jk… there are less high performing ones because the master frost build is hard to keep up with, the haste oblit build is way easier but not performing well overall. In hindsight I wish I had gone Hunter or Ele for the easier big damage.
Gotta rep that frost! Yeah, the masterfrost playstyle I don't think is intuitive to most people and it's not something that's necessarily covered through guides very well.
I mean rsham/disc are much better at healing melee than ranged compared to rdruid/hpriest. Atonement has a very low range from the boss and primarily heals tanks and rshams get a majority of their healing from healing rain on the melee stack and chain heals off of the tank. Also rdruid is super valuable in 10m for replenishment if you arent taking a ret pal/spriest...Also, rdruid/hpriest can do over a lot of their output on the move, while the other three classes have to play primarily stationary, making them good for jobs like going under in val/theralion and for being out for magmaw to help heal ranged. Realistically you're never taking more than 2 of either disc or rsham so in a 6 heal comp you'll have atleast 1 rduid, maybe an hpriest, but probably not. They arent as good as the other 3, but if you're running a 6 healer comp and already have 2 hpals/1rsham/1disc, you arent losing much at all taking the other healers.
Playing enhance on Mankrik with 3 100 parses locked in already. Just goes to show tier lists are utterly useless and meaningless for 99.9% of the player base. Playing in a top 15 guild with other 99 parsing players of all specs and am constantly top 3 dps and often top. Play what you like and if you play it well you will perform great. Anyone who says otherwise fuck em.
There were a lot of classes I didn’t talk about where my original video is reflective of their current standing, like boomie, arms, uhdk, affli, s-priest, etc. But I’ll toss you a bone! I think they are generally b tier, but a good boomie can perform in a-tier caliber for sure. Some 95-99 parsing boomies are pumping.
@@Riyaniwow How is Holy priest B tier ? I honestly don't get it. They have insane amount of output, incredible strong Divine hymn and guardian. If holy was B tier non of the top guilds back in the days would be using atleast one of them so you obviously don't have much clue if you look back from the old days.
@@badderen92 B doesn't mean bad. Their healing output is on par with rest of the healers (excluding holy pala) but brings poor raid cooldowns and no valuable external. Looking at what people did in original Cataclysm and comparing that to today's classic experience tells us nothing as patch balance and playerbase is totally different. Like, I would not mind bringing a holy priest to our 25m hc clears at all. I think they fill the same niche as the resto druid and is a perfectly fine pick for the 5th or 6th healing slot granted they are okay with flexing to shadow.
I don’t agree with this list. The biggest „No” is for retribution paladin which is very important in terms of utility and actual dmg and dps he deals. I find also bear form underestimated as you should treat it as off tank role. Affli/destro warlock specs kept on same level as demo is also questionable. Rogue… I would put it in TierA as they are beasts in matter of dps and can help you pushing HC content (V&T and conclave)
I’m just glad there are raid leaders out there who ignore the silly elitism perpetuated by these tier lists and actually give holy priests a chance to shine - and not as the 5th/6th flex healer (or 3rd in 10m). They do shine more in the raid healing department, but are perfectly capable of switching chakras to single target heal given how predictable raid bosses are. Guardian Spirit can be a tank lifesaver, and granting speed boosts from shields has uses on a few HC bosses (especially to kiters), which often goes unrecognised. They really are the unappreciated underdog healers of cata.
I absolutely think they're a solid pick and pretty much fill the same role as the rdruid. B doesn't mean bad, just means they aren't a insta-lock option for the raid comp unlike some healers out there.
The Mainstream Ppl Play BDK in The wrong way. Some Like Paper while others Never dyin. Me as Main Tank in Classic and retail. With Mythic Raid and 3k+ m+ xp lovin Classic DK ❤
Thanks for all the Cata vids! The quality is always top notch. Glad to see you growing
Thank you bud! 💕
Playing a disc priest and damn I hate healing warriors and pals. They just suck now.
In the right hands, they are not that bad, but man I hear you.
Agreed
I do think Destro is being a bit overvalued as its high parsing numbers are somewhat due to the fact it has significantly less parses than demo/afflic. Twin Dragons has 250 destro parses while afflic sits at 1200 and demo has over 3000 parses so the lower end of those specs will make destro appear to parse better when its closer to equal despite the 15% dmg boost you mentioned. A tier and ahead of demo feels too high for destro.
Big true its easy to have purple parsee when there is 200ppl parsing on a region lvl
Sorry, should've specified that the tier rankings at the end is in no specific order. I still think demo is by and large stronger than destro.
Just my opinion but hearing alot of people dont like demo play style. Demo is better and high end players it will be better.
For a casual who might not be good at or enjoy demo can put up around the same numbers and maybe feels less like a chore and more fun
But for hype reasons looking are dps boss by boss destro is doing really well so maybe if more people play and optimize can they get more out of it
Just found your channel, digging your videos!
And I’m digging you! 💕
Ret is definitely a very finicky spec. Its easy to play it wrong and has a ton of nuance into playing it to its full potential. Positioning, priority spells and timings... and knowing when to use a divine purpose proc over an art of war proc, or hammer of wrath during avenging wrath window... when to renew/start inquisition and how to utilize zealotry. Timing cooldown usage during guardian of ancient kings is also crucial as you lose a ton of potential damage by doing it too early or too late.
R.I.P to the ret pally. Blizz destroyed the cleave. Not enough rolling crits even if you’re rng proc rate is through the roof one fight, I find I crit less than half the time. Super sad.
I like how you pointed out it’s hard to tell mono cat from bear cause they’re both “feral druid” now! I remember correctly feral Druid is cat while guardian Druid is bear. WCL is so broken this expansion they couldn’t recognize one another
i rank this video, S tier
I rank you S tier!
If you go down just a bit to 90th percentile already MM hunter dmg is beating all of the A, B and C tier specs, but is still relegated to D tier overall since its just not quite as good as survival? No mention of the utility of having another ranged interrupt or instant CD refresh with readiness? I don't understand the continued disregard for MM even when its raw performance is above average and has roughly equal utility to the other hunter specs.
Boomkin is still B tier even though it pulls higher damage than some of his A tier classes too…
Because by playing MM and Not Survival you are gimping your raids overall dps. If you already have a Survival Hunter in your raid then sure rock MM imo
Frost rightly not even in contention to be on the list. Good, good. All is right with the world.
All hunter specs are S-tier, you'll be full BIS in 2 weeks and by the time others catch up we're moving on to the next raid tier.
I’m here to enhance and steal all your gear.
My poor Amage :( sent right into the trash can with p1. I'm sold to Arcane mage since cataclysm original release and had so many Fmage trashtalking or showing their pride for playing "such a strong" spec being all superior and all. Well good for them, but don't come crying when hou don't proc a single thing during a combust window while I take my own destiny in charge with knowledge and mana management. I still don't understand why people stills kick on sight mages that aren't playing fire even outside of HL content even if the ones that are playing fire in the group are doing less dmg, effective and doesn't provide either the 3% dmg buff or the 3% crit which they have on them anyway thanks to the arcane they just kicked "for playing something else than fire"
Ita because of the shit community. If you aren't min maxing the absolute best spec you are trash didn't you know that
Play a better spec
I still don't get why people put Rdruid above Holy Priest and not equal lol... I mean, they both lack Raid defensive CDs, and if we look at Raid healing, Divine Hymn is waaaaay stronger than Tranquility...
Also, Prot Warriors would def be B tier instead of C tier imo... But I guess I'm thinking about good players.
Because druids just have a lot more output and mana sustain than holy priest and still has tree form + tranq making theirs stronger( don't forget berserk for troll aswell which most r druids are. Most Hpriest players are goblin human or belf ATM.) Hpriest is dog water tier.
Prot warrior is absolutely fine-- I even raid on one in my splits. But it's rated against the other tanks where it falls behind the other options, even if it's perfectly viable and even the best option on some encounters.
@@Riyaniwow are you sure prot warriors are fine? everywhere i go i hear "prot warriors suck" "prot warrior is garbage" like they are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of tanks. And others say they're fine, i feel like i'm getting mixed responses from most people.
@@StrategicLemon If you use them for what they are designed for in Cataclysm, being an off-tank, then they are fine for sure. Cleared 13/13 25 HC on mine yesterday and while I was definitely not as tanky as my blood DK, it wasn't a big problem. Just have to play around your defensive cooldowns a bit more and call for external cooldowns.
Am I tripping or did you not talk about shadow priest in the A rank overview
There were a lot of classes I didn't talk about where my thoughts from the original ranking videos haven't changed.
I think its mostly because they start to shine after some 372 pieces. Im super unlucky with shadow orbs, got another spriest raiding with me and boy its night and day when one of us procs orbs asap or not.
How is boomkin B tier but outdamage A tier classes on tons of fights from the meters shown
Only really the 99th percentile where the boomie is performing well. But yeah a really good boomie I'd say can make it a-tier.
@@Riyaniwowbrought back my trust in my most fun to play char
TBH I find too much theory and too little practice in this tier list. I have been playing all 4 healers in 10-man HC and the facts are a little bit different. Holy Paladins have nowhere near the shown throughput. In 10-man AoE healing is much harder to execute, especially in a PUG where ppl don't stack or stack too loose. They have the highest skill cap and there is a big chance your HPal partner kills your raid by not using the spec to its potential. Disc priest's 8-10k DPS is not possible in an average HC fight unless you are being carried by a 95+ logging healer partner but it's so versatile and reactive spec, who can easily save low-hp targets, that if I wanted one healer spec to always be in my 10 man, it would be a disc priest. The biggest strength of a resto shaman's DPS is not LB spam but the fire ele that does its job when you AFK heal or do the mechanics and is the main reason you want a resto shaman on Rohash. From a healing standpoint, resto shaman shines not because of spirit link totem but because of a unique 10% HP buff and 10% physical damage reduction buff that is shared with priests but has WAY better uptime with a resto shaman, especially in 2 tank fights. With a resto shaman, you will have the least "random" tank deaths. Resto druid is always a step behind the damage happening, slow to react, praying that your HoTs are faster than boss damage. Nourish and Healing Touch have ridiculously long cast times. Sorry, but it's a tier below a resto shaman, at least for Tier 1 content.
As one of the high performing frost dks… how dare you bump me down!! 🤣🤣
Jk… there are less high performing ones because the master frost build is hard to keep up with, the haste oblit build is way easier but not performing well overall.
In hindsight I wish I had gone Hunter or Ele for the easier big damage.
Gotta rep that frost!
Yeah, the masterfrost playstyle I don't think is intuitive to most people and it's not something that's necessarily covered through guides very well.
Holy Priest and Resto Druid are the same class with neither having any raid utility. They should be together... on the bench
Hater, but you might be right
I mean rsham/disc are much better at healing melee than ranged compared to rdruid/hpriest. Atonement has a very low range from the boss and primarily heals tanks and rshams get a majority of their healing from healing rain on the melee stack and chain heals off of the tank. Also rdruid is super valuable in 10m for replenishment if you arent taking a ret pal/spriest...Also, rdruid/hpriest can do over a lot of their output on the move, while the other three classes have to play primarily stationary, making them good for jobs like going under in val/theralion and for being out for magmaw to help heal ranged. Realistically you're never taking more than 2 of either disc or rsham so in a 6 heal comp you'll have atleast 1 rduid, maybe an hpriest, but probably not. They arent as good as the other 3, but if you're running a 6 healer comp and already have 2 hpals/1rsham/1disc, you arent losing much at all taking the other healers.
Playing enhance on Mankrik with 3 100 parses locked in already. Just goes to show tier lists are utterly useless and meaningless for 99.9% of the player base. Playing in a top 15 guild with other 99 parsing players of all specs and am constantly top 3 dps and often top. Play what you like and if you play it well you will perform great. Anyone who says otherwise fuck em.
so teach us, i dont want to play elemental.
Rdruid is legit stier lmao
🎉
Frost DK to S tier 😌
I wish
Sub rogue is god tier. Sin is for wussies
All the classes covered apart from balance druid which doesnt even get a mention. Sad.
F-tier
They are literally in the B tier section
There were a lot of classes I didn’t talk about where my original video is reflective of their current standing, like boomie, arms, uhdk, affli, s-priest, etc.
But I’ll toss you a bone! I think they are generally b tier, but a good boomie can perform in a-tier caliber for sure. Some 95-99 parsing boomies are pumping.
Balance definitely pumping with dark intent buff from the lock
Feel like your tier was wrong. Balance druid and holy priest should be A tier easily.
Balance Druid in the 99th percentile, sure. Overall, no. Holy priest definitely is definitely a b-tier pick for the vast majority of content.
What drugs are you smoking?
@@Riyaniwow How is Holy priest B tier ? I honestly don't get it. They have insane amount of output, incredible strong Divine hymn and guardian. If holy was B tier non of the top guilds back in the days would be using atleast one of them so you obviously don't have much clue if you look back from the old days.
@@VividVoid What drugs am i smoking ? How old are you mate ? If you can't come with a legit question then don't bother.
@@badderen92 B doesn't mean bad. Their healing output is on par with rest of the healers (excluding holy pala) but brings poor raid cooldowns and no valuable external.
Looking at what people did in original Cataclysm and comparing that to today's classic experience tells us nothing as patch balance and playerbase is totally different.
Like, I would not mind bringing a holy priest to our 25m hc clears at all. I think they fill the same niche as the resto druid and is a perfectly fine pick for the 5th or 6th healing slot granted they are okay with flexing to shadow.
I don’t agree with this list. The biggest „No” is for retribution paladin which is very important in terms of utility and actual dmg and dps he deals. I find also bear form underestimated as you should treat it as off tank role. Affli/destro warlock specs kept on same level as demo is also questionable. Rogue… I would put it in TierA as they are beasts in matter of dps and can help you pushing HC content (V&T and conclave)
I’m just glad there are raid leaders out there who ignore the silly elitism perpetuated by these tier lists and actually give holy priests a chance to shine - and not as the 5th/6th flex healer (or 3rd in 10m). They do shine more in the raid healing department, but are perfectly capable of switching chakras to single target heal given how predictable raid bosses are. Guardian Spirit can be a tank lifesaver, and granting speed boosts from shields has uses on a few HC bosses (especially to kiters), which often goes unrecognised. They really are the unappreciated underdog healers of cata.
I absolutely think they're a solid pick and pretty much fill the same role as the rdruid. B doesn't mean bad, just means they aren't a insta-lock option for the raid comp unlike some healers out there.
Blood DK is the squishiest tank. No healer likes them lmao.
Oh
The Mainstream Ppl Play BDK in The wrong way. Some Like Paper while others Never dyin. Me as Main Tank in Classic and retail. With Mythic Raid and 3k+ m+ xp lovin Classic DK ❤
Rssto druid is better than both
All wrong. Go delete 😆
Thanks for keeping me grounded