Pieter, this video is awesome. Thanks for sharing. I love the mission you created with the AI aircraft and the way you setup the deck with statics and personnel.
Great vid man. Super useful. I've read the natops manuals, watched gopro vids, but it's still easy to misunderstand some things or get the timing of events wrong, a vid like yours does a lot for filling those gaps in understanding, thanks a lot.
Hey man, thanks. I really recommend reading my manuals in the description they will fill even a lot more blanks, But see where you come from. When I started researching, it got a bit out of hand. This is the result 😉
Thanks man, obviously it’s is still a lot more dynamic, but had to keep the focus on the mainline of the story, glad you enjoyed and feel free to ask questions
@@pieterras4592 Thanks!. I have one question. I have always struggled with the concept of the stack collapsing. I find it difficult to tell if a flight on the opposing side of low holding is indeed at my altitude or 1k above or below me. what do you suggest to help build that SA?
This is a masterpiece! Thanks for this. Could you please include the Controls Input display by using RCTRL + Enter in future videos it really helps newbs like me see how much and when you are manipulating the the controls
Hey Baz, yeah sure no problem. Tbh the controls have never been manipulated in the video. It has all been flown with the standard reference settings and the vertical movements induced and corrected with thrust and roll with the joystick. I never had to help the jet to where I wanted it to be. Let me know zit you have any questions and I am happy to help 😉
Thanks for this great video: very useful and informative whilst you managed to keep it simple. Just downloaded your Carrier Ops manual and looking forward to go through it. Out of curiosity, were you a naval aviator on the Hornet?
Hey Lorenzo! Unfortunately, I was not :) I do fly for a living, but on a big plastic 787, also Boeing but much less cool. However a good friend of mine did fly the hornet in the navy, and I made sure everything in the video or the manual is credible and correct.
Superb, exact flying, love it! How do you manage to get into the stack at the exact time the other flight Uzi on co altitude angles 2 is on posit 3 opposite as to not cut them off? Also, who gives you the angles and time to be at in the stack, is that prebriefed? Here Marshall doesn't give you a time and altitude. DCS limitation?
Hé man, thank you for your kind words. I manage to put myself opposite to the other flight by playing off geometry. I roughly estimate their speed which will be normally close to min fuel conservation I.e 250kts. With those numbers a full pattern takes somewhere around 3 to 4 minutes. Before launch you would know the stack level from the airplane incl who else will be recovering, what time the launch cycle is scheduled to end etc. Unfortunately DCS only simulates CQ and not Cyclic Ops, but glad you enjoyed it. Some of the manuals in the comments of the video will fill in many more or the blanks. Hope you enjoyed it. Let me know if you have any other questions.
@@pieterras4592 I read the manual through after i commented. Very well put together, interesting and easy to read, what a joy! Thanks so much for the work. And yes, I was never aware either of the difference between CQ and CO, and didn't realise DCS only portrays CQ. My only other question is, when do I get to fly off your wing on Nr. 2 posit to experience that in DCS? :D
@@pieterras4592 ya right on looked pretty cool immersive mission, be great when the track files are fixed up and replay that mission in vr and just sit in the pit and observe. Imagine that be a great teaching aid
Hey man glad you like it;) The .miz is everything but a secret, but the behind-the-scenes is probably not what you expect as it is all created to make it "look" as cyclic ops, however, the AI logic simply doesn't work the way it should for cyclic...
Haha must be Jason, yeah AI simply does not do what you want when it comes to this, as they don’t really have a logic to see if there are statics parked on the CAT etc, to had to use a lot of different logics, but think it came out alright.
@@pieterras4592 yes thats me mate. Yeah i thought that but they seamed to be doing exactly what should be done so wasn’t sure. I thought it was real players till the end when the ai backed themselves onto the elevator. Great job man
Yeah, I couldn’t ask real players to keep flying circles the amount it was required to make it perfect. Although I have flown cyclic ops with real players many of times. It is definitely doable but you need everyone to understand the game of cyclic ops, incl what to do when things don’t go so well.
Hey, great video! Two questions: 1. Why they do not stack frequencies in order they will be used? 2. Why to not descend before undercarriage is down and locked? Is that technical or procedural limitation or technique? Suggestion: Text on the bottom is unreadable when video is paused (covered by YT timeline bar), consider moving it a bit if you continue to produce videos.
Hey man, good comments. 1: actually they are in a certain order, irl often the guys operate the frequencies according too a pre-programmed comm ladder. Btn 1 TWR/LSO on case 1 Btn 2 Departure for case 2/3 departures Btn 3 Strike Btn 4 Red Crown So there is a certain order there, Approach on Btn 15 and 17 approach controllers and the LSO Marshal on Btn 16 Btn 18 a squadron Rep So there is definitely a logic to it. 2: it is no procedural limit but more classed as airmanship/good practice. When you come into the break, maintain altitude until you’ve got your gear coming down, and then then you can start working on your 600’ AGL.This should be intuitively obvious. ( many people don’t know the turn is supposed to be level, although if you break at the bow, it leaves you not much room to reach 600’ at the 180 but as long as you configure first, you should be fine). If you come into the break and start working off your altitude first, then it’s going to take you longer to reach gear speed, leaving you less time to complete the landing checklist, get onspeed, concentrate on driving to a good 180, etc. So maintain break altitude until the magic gear speed, drop the gear and flaps, and then strive to make your altitude windows. Do not blow by every chance to make your 600’ abeam. Thanks for the comments, only my first ever video, so don’t hang me up on my editing skills 😂, but yeah good call for maybe a next video Did this actually answer your questions?
@@pieterras4592 Hey, tnx for extensive answer. I've read your documents posted in description as well. Do not worry about editing, it's just fine :) About 2: If I break at the bow I tend to let it sink couple tens of feet as soon as I select configuration, because there's practically no downwind. One more question: I saw in the video you're using speed brake into break turn. One alleged F-18 pilot told me at some forums that, I paraphrase: "no self-respecting pilot would ever use speed brake into break turn." What do you think about that? Is there any DCS server where people try to fly cyclic ops?
@@Nikola16789 the VNAO guys try to run Cyclic Ops as good as practicable on their servers might be worth having a look there. JTF-88 in TAW does a pretty good job at cyclic ops too. I could give you my opinion on that comment, but I try to stay factual. NATOPS says use speed brake as required. In DCS the speed decay is not as entirely as correct as the real life jet, so I say do what you think is best. If you can operate without it, obviously great, however there is no excuse when you mess up the pattern because you think you’re better then you are. That’s what you see often, especially when people start the break and loose 60 ft just on entry of the turn. Or want to do a SHB but are unable to fly the nr’s. I used it in the video, as procedurally I wanted to show that you can, and to buy some time, showing people where the focus should be on. HOWEVER I have asked some navy friends, and let you know their answer.
@@pieterras4592 Thank you. And just to be clear, my intention was not to critique your flying in the video, I use speedbrake every time, as I believe that consistency is good thing - there are already too many things to track I do not need to complicate it more by changing technique.
@@Nikola16789 haha no offence retaken :) I have enough real life hours to not care anymore 😉 but raised a good question. And I will get back to you with an answer 🤙🏻
Also, how did you get the AI to stack for cyclic ops? When I try they end up either blowing through the static objects or never stacking in the marshal stack.
Hi WR Leo, unfortunately the .miz file will not be of much help to you. All aircraft had up to 200 waypoint to make them fly an accurate marshal pattern, corrected for the ships movement. On deck statics spawn and despair during the mission to create the realistic look that comes with cyclic ops. Hopefully one day ED will allow us cyclic ops to be run to its full potential. I am sorry I cannot be of much more help, but am happy to help you along if you like to. Cheers,
So... I learned that in the break turn you should pull for G to equal 1% of airspeed. i.e. 350 kts, pull 3.5 G, relax as you slow. I notice you don't do that. I wonder where that came from.
Hey man. Its a DCSism as far as I know. I mean if it works for you then that is fine, although If you think about it.. It will mean you need to focus the entire break on dividing your airspeed by a factor of 100 and making corrections towards it.. The calculations aren't so difficult however, now you loose soo much capacity to fly a level turn, configure appropriately, reduce to on speed, monitor the boat.. look outside, etc.. I know the technique and if it works for you then as I said, I would be the last one to tell you not to... However, I didn't mention it for a specific reason in the video as I wanted to show that with a coordinated turn there is no need for it, and you actually can monitor the turn. by the time you are 75% through the turn, you want to roughly be around 0.7 - 0.9nm abeam distance from the BRC. then you make your final corrections based on how you are doing... Simply looking for 0.6nm abeam when 50% through the turn would not work, as your turn radius is variable with speed. so you are probably a bit further abeam when you are halfway through....
You know nothing about cyclic ops and the 20 hour deck days lol. Go get on deck and learn you something. Lol. Before anyone gets triggered this was just a joke. Im a yellow shirt and trust me, no one in V-1 has love for cyclic op days.
Great demonstration of what Cyclic OPS looks like 🍺
Thanks guys, feedback is appreciated, makes it worth spending the time in creating the content.
Pieter, this video is awesome. Thanks for sharing. I love the mission you created with the AI aircraft and the way you setup the deck with statics and personnel.
Appreciate it man. Glad you liked it
Awesome video dude. This completely changes the way I look at Cyclic ops.
Well that was the whole reason;) it is soo much different then the way some people show in DCS..
Great vid man. Super useful.
I've read the natops manuals, watched gopro vids, but it's still easy to misunderstand some things or get the timing of events wrong, a vid like yours does a lot for filling those gaps in understanding, thanks a lot.
Hey man, thanks. I really recommend reading my manuals in the description they will fill even a lot more blanks, But see where you come from. When I started researching, it got a bit out of hand. This is the result 😉
That was awesome mate, very well put together. Best case 1 iv seen
Glad you liked it man!
@@pieterras4592 loved it
Very informative and easy to understand👍
Nice video! Loved the knowledge.
Thanks man, obviously it’s is still a lot more dynamic, but had to keep the focus on the mainline of the story, glad you enjoyed and feel free to ask questions
@@pieterras4592 Thanks!. I have one question. I have always struggled with the concept of the stack collapsing. I find it difficult to tell if a flight on the opposing side of low holding is indeed at my altitude or 1k above or below me.
what do you suggest to help build that SA?
You made that look so so so easy!!
Haha :) well it definitely wasn’t the only pass I had to record:) but glad you like it. It certainly is very doable in DCS.
Best video ever made and great voice
Thank you, I guess
Thanks for the video. Very useful.
Great video, thank you.
Fantastic. Subscribed
Glad you enjoyed
Thanks!
This is a masterpiece! Thanks for this. Could you please include the Controls Input display by using RCTRL + Enter in future videos it really helps newbs like me see how much and when you are manipulating the the controls
Hey Baz, yeah sure no problem. Tbh the controls have never been manipulated in the video. It has all been flown with the standard reference settings and the vertical movements induced and corrected with thrust and roll with the joystick. I never had to help the jet to where I wanted it to be. Let me know zit you have any questions and I am happy to help 😉
Very helpfull content, thanks a lot :)
Glad you liked it man
what was the set up for all the other aircraft in the video? Did you have other players flying them or manage to make the DCS AI cooperate?
All AI, being very skilled in carrier landings 😜
Using AI was probably the hardest part of the whole video.
Thanks for this great video: very useful and informative whilst you managed to keep it simple. Just downloaded your Carrier Ops manual and looking forward to go through it. Out of curiosity, were you a naval aviator on the Hornet?
Hey Lorenzo! Unfortunately, I was not :) I do fly for a living, but on a big plastic 787, also Boeing but much less cool. However a good friend of mine did fly the hornet in the navy, and I made sure everything in the video or the manual is credible and correct.
@@pieterras4592 thanks for the quick reply. if this can help making you feel better I am on a small metal 737 NG ;-)
really good video!
Superb, exact flying, love it!
How do you manage to get into the stack at the exact time the other flight Uzi on co altitude angles 2 is on posit 3 opposite as to not cut them off? Also, who gives you the angles and time to be at in the stack, is that prebriefed? Here Marshall doesn't give you a time and altitude. DCS limitation?
Hé man, thank you for your kind words. I manage to put myself opposite to the other flight by playing off geometry. I roughly estimate their speed which will be normally close to min fuel conservation I.e 250kts. With those numbers a full pattern takes somewhere around 3 to 4 minutes.
Before launch you would know the stack level from the airplane incl who else will be recovering, what time the launch cycle is scheduled to end etc. Unfortunately DCS only simulates CQ and not Cyclic Ops, but glad you enjoyed it. Some of the manuals in the comments of the video will fill in many more or the blanks. Hope you enjoyed it. Let me know if you have any other questions.
@@pieterras4592 I read the manual through after i commented. Very well put together, interesting and easy to read, what a joy! Thanks so much for the work. And yes, I was never aware either of the difference between CQ and CO, and didn't realise DCS only portrays CQ.
My only other question is, when do I get to fly off your wing on Nr. 2 posit to experience that in DCS? :D
@@DCSMustang anytime
Good!!!
thx for the info
Anytime :)
This was awesome and beyond helpful, curious if you posted the mission anywhere?
I haven’t in all honesty… not that it was a secret, but it had a lot of magic AI appearing and disappearing in it to make it look realistic
@@pieterras4592 ya right on looked pretty cool immersive mission, be great when the track files are fixed up and replay that mission in vr and just sit in the pit and observe. Imagine that be a great teaching aid
@@richjones859 never even thought of that… I will have to see if I can find the trackfile somewhere
Awesome video! can we get if possible the mission to practice cyclic ops ?
Hey man glad you like it;)
The .miz is everything but a secret, but the behind-the-scenes is probably not what you expect as it is all created to make it "look" as cyclic ops, however, the AI logic simply doesn't work the way it should for cyclic...
That's my man.
Just had to rewatch it again as it was so good. Take it that was done with ai ? Btw im the guy you mentioned in your facebook post
Haha must be Jason, yeah AI simply does not do what you want when it comes to this, as they don’t really have a logic to see if there are statics parked on the CAT etc, to had to use a lot of different logics, but think it came out alright.
@@pieterras4592 yes thats me mate. Yeah i thought that but they seamed to be doing exactly what should be done so wasn’t sure. I thought it was real players till the end when the ai backed themselves onto the elevator. Great job man
Yeah, I couldn’t ask real players to keep flying circles the amount it was required to make it perfect. Although I have flown cyclic ops with real players many of times. It is definitely doable but you need everyone to understand the game of cyclic ops, incl what to do when things don’t go so well.
Hey, great video! Two questions:
1. Why they do not stack frequencies in order they will be used?
2. Why to not descend before undercarriage is down and locked? Is that technical or procedural limitation or technique?
Suggestion: Text on the bottom is unreadable when video is paused (covered by YT timeline bar), consider moving it a bit if you continue to produce videos.
Hey man, good comments.
1: actually they are in a certain order, irl often the guys operate the frequencies according too a pre-programmed comm ladder.
Btn 1 TWR/LSO on case 1
Btn 2 Departure for case 2/3 departures
Btn 3 Strike
Btn 4 Red Crown
So there is a certain order there,
Approach on Btn 15 and 17 approach controllers and the LSO
Marshal on Btn 16
Btn 18 a squadron Rep
So there is definitely a logic to it.
2: it is no procedural limit but more classed as airmanship/good practice. When you come into the break, maintain altitude until you’ve got your gear coming down, and then then you can start working on your 600’ AGL.This should be intuitively obvious. ( many people don’t know the turn is supposed to be level, although if you break at the bow, it leaves you not much room to reach 600’ at the 180 but as long as you configure first, you should be fine). If you come into the break and start working off your altitude first, then it’s going to take you longer to reach gear speed, leaving you less time to complete the landing checklist, get onspeed, concentrate on driving to a good 180, etc. So maintain break altitude until the magic gear speed, drop the gear and flaps, and then strive to make your altitude windows. Do not blow by every chance to make your 600’ abeam.
Thanks for the comments, only my first ever video, so don’t hang me up on my editing skills 😂, but yeah good call for maybe a next video
Did this actually answer your questions?
@@pieterras4592 Hey, tnx for extensive answer. I've read your documents posted in description as well. Do not worry about editing, it's just fine :)
About 2: If I break at the bow I tend to let it sink couple tens of feet as soon as I select configuration, because there's practically no downwind.
One more question: I saw in the video you're using speed brake into break turn. One alleged F-18 pilot told me at some forums that, I paraphrase: "no self-respecting pilot would ever use speed brake into break turn." What do you think about that?
Is there any DCS server where people try to fly cyclic ops?
@@Nikola16789 the VNAO guys try to run Cyclic Ops as good as practicable on their servers might be worth having a look there. JTF-88 in TAW does a pretty good job at cyclic ops too.
I could give you my opinion on that comment, but I try to stay factual. NATOPS says use speed brake as required. In DCS the speed decay is not as entirely as correct as the real life jet, so I say do what you think is best. If you can operate without it, obviously great, however there is no excuse when you mess up the pattern because you think you’re better then you are. That’s what you see often, especially when people start the break and loose 60 ft just on entry of the turn. Or want to do a SHB but are unable to fly the nr’s.
I used it in the video, as procedurally I wanted to show that you can, and to buy some time, showing people where the focus should be on.
HOWEVER I have asked some navy friends, and let you know their answer.
@@pieterras4592 Thank you.
And just to be clear, my intention was not to critique your flying in the video, I use speedbrake every time, as I believe that consistency is good thing - there are already too many things to track I do not need to complicate it more by changing technique.
@@Nikola16789 haha no offence retaken :) I have enough real life hours to not care anymore 😉 but raised a good question. And I will get back to you with an answer 🤙🏻
Thanks Bro!!
Any chance you have a .miz file for us?
Also, how did you get the AI to stack for cyclic ops? When I try they end up either blowing through the static objects or never stacking in the marshal stack.
Hi WR Leo, unfortunately the .miz file will not be of much help to you. All aircraft had up to 200 waypoint to make them fly an accurate marshal pattern, corrected for the ships movement. On deck statics spawn and despair during the mission to create the realistic look that comes with cyclic ops. Hopefully one day ED will allow us cyclic ops to be run to its full potential.
I am sorry I cannot be of much more help, but am happy to help you along if you like to.
Cheers,
So... I learned that in the break turn you should pull for G to equal 1% of airspeed. i.e. 350 kts, pull 3.5 G, relax as you slow. I notice you don't do that. I wonder where that came from.
Hey man.
Its a DCSism as far as I know. I mean if it works for you then that is fine, although If you think about it..
It will mean you need to focus the entire break on dividing your airspeed by a factor of 100 and making corrections towards it.. The calculations aren't so difficult however, now you loose soo much capacity to fly a level turn, configure appropriately, reduce to on speed, monitor the boat.. look outside, etc.. I know the technique and if it works for you then as I said, I would be the last one to tell you not to... However, I didn't mention it for a specific reason in the video as I wanted to show that with a coordinated turn there is no need for it, and you actually can monitor the turn. by the time you are 75% through the turn, you want to roughly be around 0.7 - 0.9nm abeam distance from the BRC. then you make your final corrections based on how you are doing...
Simply looking for 0.6nm abeam when 50% through the turn would not work, as your turn radius is variable with speed. so you are probably a bit further abeam when you are halfway through....
You know nothing about cyclic ops and the 20 hour deck days lol. Go get on deck and learn you something. Lol. Before anyone gets triggered this was just a joke. Im a yellow shirt and trust me, no one in V-1 has love for cyclic op days.