3 benifits you missed. 1. The closed cell Vittoria Gravel liners (road version is open cell different product attributes) keep the tyre bead in place so a sealent sealed or beacon strips fixed big hole/puncture is still recoverable from by using a normal pump - you don't need a compressor or multiple CO2 canisters. 2. The volume within the tyre is taken up with liner so less air is required to pump up your tyres. Again closed cell Vittoria Gravel air liners don't require extra sealent so no extra weight, but far less pumping up (important when in a race or you got a small hand pump so to speak) 3. Totally F'ed gravel/road tyre in the 28 to 35C range can still be ridden without damage to your rim. I did Geelong to Melbourne at a steady 26kph with a totally flat rear tyre with a gravel airliners in it. Important to get you out of the back of beyond or if doing endurance/ Audax multi day 350 km per day rides 👍 NB they are a bugger to put on/in sometimes 👍
2. Less volume in the tyre yes, so to make the tyre round it's less pressure. But psi is pounds per square inch. You have less volume so to resist impacts you need more pressure. Very hard to wrap your head around. But imagine riding a bike head on into a gutter/curb. Low psi the tyre will buckle and rim will dent. High psi it will not. Now imagine a tyre that's half as tall (which the tyre liner does) do you really think you can now run an even lower pressure without buckling your rim riding into that gutter?
@@janeblogs324 hi Jane. First - there are two types of Vittoria airliner, the road version is open cell which means when under pressure (any noticeable pressure) it deforms/collapes and reduces to a cardboard thin (think thick rim tape) status. It only pops up to keep the tyre on the rim when all pressure is lost - again this is the Vittoria air lines specific to the road. The gravel and MtB Airlines are made of different stuff with closed cell structure - does allow sealent to enter it occupies tyre space air would normally occupy and both keeps the true on the rim and provides crush or impact protection to your rims. You can also ride on the gravel version with no air pressure if necessary to get you out of the backwoods to a tarmac road or phone reception if necessary 😄👍
Tyre Liners are those rubber strips that go between the inner tube and the tyre, from 15 years ago. These are known as "inserts". The subtitles on the video at the start get it right.
Installed the Vitoria air liners on my gravel. So far so good, I think trickle down technology from mtb to gravel is sweet. Gravel is truly becoming the aero mtb!
The number one benefit I've had as a roadie with the Vittoria Air Liners, is the ability to ride on a flat. Twice now in the past year, I have gotten home after a decent ride (2-3 hours) to find my rear wheel literally had ~20 psi in it due to a puncture that I didn't hear/feel. That's 25psi on a 25mm tire! I literally couldn't even tell while riding, that's how beneficial they are! The ability to run-flat is awesome especially as a single person, don't have someone to just call and pick me up if it gets really bad and I can't fix it on the roadside...
I completely agree that tire liners feel 10x better than without liners and going tubeless. I haven’t used tire liners in my gravel bikes but they are on all my mountain bikes. This includes my full rigid SS bike with wide rims and 29x2.8” tires. I definitely think the comfort factor is a big consideration and different brands will provide different comfort options. Just a thought.
I use liners on my road, cross and gravel bike and am super happy with and from today's point of view won't go without it anymore. I did safely descent an alpine pass on a normaly flat tire and it really worked. I highly recommend.
This was really helpful and good timing as I’ve been pondering the Vittoria ones recently for my gravel / bikepacking bike running 42mm tyres on Hunt xtra wide rims. I’m not 100% sold for that use but might be worth a try.
Still not sold on extra weight. If you ride CX or fast gravel I don't think so. Still thinks it's just a downhill and bike packing thing. Crushcore is what a lot of people ride in my area, very solid product. However, lots more local gravel riders are using these. I think liner for gravel/cx is like the old 25mm vs 28mm road tire debate.
Liners make a lot of sense……scratch that… are a must!!…for riding gravel/ cx bikes with limited tire clearance, on gnarly, mtb territory, trails. They allow to run very low tire pressure whilst protecting rim/tube. Liners may not be as crucial in the larger volume tires, 45-50mm which the newer generation gravel bikes can accommodate. As gravel skills develop, riders become much more smoother which will allow to be comfortable with slightly higher pressures, and at the same time smash less the wheels at lower pressures.
I like the idea of this as a backup incase you have a blowout going downhill fast. It sure does seem that these may get you through that without crashing.
I use a Tubolight in the rear tire of my gravel bike. It weighed 39 grams in 700C. I can't imagine not using it, I run lower pressure with no fear of wacking a carbon rim
I would be concerned about the porosity of the liners soaking up sealant like a sponge requiring more frequent sealant refills. Then imagining the wheels getting even heavier as a result.
I was concerned too but after taking the inserts out I saw they hadn't soaked up anything. I ran them under some water and they came up nice and clean, as you see me holding them in the video
I was thinking about the predicament of tubeless repair while using a tire liner. Would a Dynaplug (or similar) work or would you effectively be stabbing a hole in the liner and risk possibly binding the tire to the liner with the slug?
Never tried them so just wondering, could you carry a long stem inner tube maybe a smaller 29er one and in the case of a big failure just take out the valve and whack a tube in as well?
"you have to add tire pressure because the liners reduce the amount of air volume" 2:53 This is just straight up wrong. The tire pressure you should run is mainly determined by contact patch size (narrower requiring higher pressures) and protection from rim impacts. Contact patch size remains the same since the liner doesn't change the size of the tire, and protection from rim impacts is strictly improved since the liner only adds protection on top of the travel the tire naturally offers. The vittoria page you link in the description even talks about how tire liners allow you to run lower pressures. If you look at the product page of schwalbe's procore liner, the first benefit they list is "Tire pressure can be reduced". The gnarly liner product page talks about lowering pressures, and certainly says nothing about having to raise them. Lower pressures are the entire point of tire liners. If you watch other media reviews, you will continuously see people talk about the lower pressures they can use with liners. Using higher pressures makes this video very uninformative since you're basing what you're saying on an incorrect way of using tire liners.
I increased my tyre pressure from roughly 20psi to around 25 because the tyre wasn't maintaining its shape for confident riding on the smoother surfaces to/from the gravel trails or on the roads ridden between them. Without increasing the pressure they were sagging and flopping through corners. "Tyre pressure can be reduced" is true of how tyre liners are marketed and I've seen all the slow motion shots of MTB rims slamming into hard edges, but my experience with mixed terrain riding was the lower pressures made for sloppy handling. I'm not on a downhill bike trying to squeeze every fraction of contact patch for faster rugs, I still need enough air to navigate a roundabout without the tyre rolling off the rim.
@@JustRideAdelaide Yeah that's completely fair, and if the tire is sagging and flopping in corners, you should indeed not lower pressures since liners don't do a lot to help with that, but recommending that people have to add tire pressure when using a liner isn't good general advice. What you're saying about the tire sagging & rolling is very valid, and could have made for a very interesting conversation in the video about when liners don't actually allow you to lower pressures and what to watch out for. People with narrower tires might actually benefit more from liners than people with 2 inch tires like you. Narrower tires have less rim protection, and don't run into stability problems as fast. For example, I run 40C g one speeds at 3 bar, and have pinch flatted twice. Since my tire isn't that wide relative to my 22i rims, my tire stability is still really good. That means that a liner would allow me to further lower my tire pressures and enjoy added protection without compromising tire stability. You could talk about tire pressure & tire roll in a video about rim width perhaps. I'd be really interested to see if a wider rim allows you to run lower pressures by providing more stability to the tire. That could make for a really interesting perspective on how the amount of benefit you get from a liner also depends on your rim width. I really like your channel by the way, loved your video on frame facing.
The liner has give in it so its like stacking 2 cushions on your couch. These liners are also foam, they have a digressive load curve the more you load them. Rubber gets harder the more you load it, inflated balloons do not. Also remember psi, its per square inch. Any manufacturer saying you can run lower pressures is dreaming. Sure it's possible but the only gain would be comfort.
@@JustRideAdelaide Good point. There is also a company that sells tubeless inserts that do not require air. They make different density models for common sizes to adapt to weight and ride preferences. Obviously, an insert is heavier than the air it replaces so maybe best suited to commuting. Keep up the quality content. I like how you test products for enough time to confirm initial impressions.
I like the idea of tyre liners but they are just a price gouge, should cost about the same as a latex inner tube, they are just a piece of foam after all.
Euhm there are also a lot ot tyreliners that you don't need to cut and ziptie/tape together, honestly this one is just an aweful example to be honest! Not that I use them though, not mtb'in/gravelriding enough that I have much problem with my tubeless setup.
Ha, ha. Nice dis on roadies. Anyway, this whole time, I thought that tire liners meant a type of rim tape that instead went inside of the tire. I think a better name for these puffy liners would be "tire snakes". Or... (anyone have a better name?)
This guy deserves at least 100,000 subscribers. The content is entertaining, honest and useful.
Ahhhh thanks so much mate that's made my day 😍
I second that
Yep. Very good.
Yep relevant information smoothly delivered. I’m happy with the quality of the content that I share it with others regularly
Agree
3 benifits you missed.
1. The closed cell Vittoria Gravel liners (road version is open cell different product attributes) keep the tyre bead in place so a sealent sealed or beacon strips fixed big hole/puncture is still recoverable from by using a normal pump - you don't need a compressor or multiple CO2 canisters.
2. The volume within the tyre is taken up with liner so less air is required to pump up your tyres. Again closed cell Vittoria Gravel air liners don't require extra sealent so no extra weight, but far less pumping up (important when in a race or you got a small hand pump so to speak)
3. Totally F'ed gravel/road tyre in the 28 to 35C range can still be ridden without damage to your rim. I did Geelong to Melbourne at a steady 26kph with a totally flat rear tyre with a gravel airliners in it. Important to get you out of the back of beyond or if doing endurance/ Audax multi day 350 km per day rides 👍
NB they are a bugger to put on/in sometimes 👍
2. Less volume in the tyre yes, so to make the tyre round it's less pressure. But psi is pounds per square inch. You have less volume so to resist impacts you need more pressure.
Very hard to wrap your head around. But imagine riding a bike head on into a gutter/curb. Low psi the tyre will buckle and rim will dent. High psi it will not.
Now imagine a tyre that's half as tall (which the tyre liner does) do you really think you can now run an even lower pressure without buckling your rim riding into that gutter?
@@janeblogs324 hi Jane. First - there are two types of Vittoria airliner, the road version is open cell which means when under pressure (any noticeable pressure) it deforms/collapes and reduces to a cardboard thin (think thick rim tape) status. It only pops up to keep the tyre on the rim when all pressure is lost - again this is the Vittoria air lines specific to the road.
The gravel and MtB Airlines are made of different stuff with closed cell structure - does allow sealent to enter it occupies tyre space air would normally occupy and both keeps the true on the rim and provides crush or impact protection to your rims. You can also ride on the gravel version with no air pressure if necessary to get you out of the backwoods to a tarmac road or phone reception if necessary 😄👍
Tyre Liners are those rubber strips that go between the inner tube and the tyre, from 15 years ago. These are known as "inserts". The subtitles on the video at the start get it right.
They certainly are not rubber
Love the ROBS & COBS scale 😃👍
Installed the Vitoria air liners on my gravel. So far so good, I think trickle down technology from mtb to gravel is sweet. Gravel is truly becoming the aero mtb!
The number one benefit I've had as a roadie with the Vittoria Air Liners, is the ability to ride on a flat. Twice now in the past year, I have gotten home after a decent ride (2-3 hours) to find my rear wheel literally had ~20 psi in it due to a puncture that I didn't hear/feel. That's 25psi on a 25mm tire! I literally couldn't even tell while riding, that's how beneficial they are! The ability to run-flat is awesome especially as a single person, don't have someone to just call and pick me up if it gets really bad and I can't fix it on the roadside...
Best bike review channel on YT. Thanks for your content dude 👌🏼👍🏻
I completely agree that tire liners feel 10x better than without liners and going tubeless. I haven’t used tire liners in my gravel bikes but they are on all my mountain bikes. This includes my full rigid SS bike with wide rims and 29x2.8” tires.
I definitely think the comfort factor is a big consideration and different brands will provide different comfort options. Just a thought.
Sounds like they’re for Land Cruiser gravel, but not so much for Camry gravel
I use liners on my road, cross and gravel bike and am super happy with and from today's point of view won't go without it anymore. I did safely descent an alpine pass on a normaly flat tire and it really worked. I highly recommend.
This was really helpful and good timing as I’ve been pondering the Vittoria ones recently for my gravel / bikepacking bike running 42mm tyres on Hunt xtra wide rims. I’m not 100% sold for that use but might be worth a try.
Still not sold on extra weight. If you ride CX or fast gravel I don't think so. Still thinks it's just a downhill and bike packing thing. Crushcore is what a lot of people ride in my area, very solid product. However, lots more local gravel riders are using these. I think liner for gravel/cx is like the old 25mm vs 28mm road tire debate.
Liners make a lot of sense……scratch that… are a must!!…for riding gravel/ cx bikes with limited tire clearance, on gnarly, mtb territory, trails. They allow to run very low tire pressure whilst protecting rim/tube. Liners may not be as crucial in the larger volume tires, 45-50mm which the newer generation gravel bikes can accommodate. As gravel skills develop, riders become much more smoother which will allow to be comfortable with slightly higher pressures, and at the same time smash less the wheels at lower pressures.
*ROBS and COBS* great way to put it. Nice video! Cheers
I like the idea of this as a backup incase you have a blowout going downhill fast. It sure does seem that these may get you through that without crashing.
I use a Tubolight in the rear tire of my gravel bike. It weighed 39 grams in 700C. I can't imagine not using it, I run lower pressure with no fear of wacking a carbon rim
Definitely on the radar now!
Using a Vittoria one on the rear wheel of the XC hardtail, and it's saved my rim a few times I reckon.
Please bring back Adelaide’s hardest climbs 😀
Do you have a preference of tubeless tire liners vs ones that use innertubes?
Whats this? Our favorite Aussie now has a Clark Gable mustache? The mustachioed wonder from down under 😀👍
Miss your content Bloke. Come on back!
I would be concerned about the porosity of the liners soaking up sealant like a sponge requiring more frequent sealant refills. Then imagining the wheels getting even heavier as a result.
I was concerned too but after taking the inserts out I saw they hadn't soaked up anything. I ran them under some water and they came up nice and clean, as you see me holding them in the video
I was thinking about the predicament of tubeless repair while using a tire liner. Would a Dynaplug (or similar) work or would you effectively be stabbing a hole in the liner and risk possibly binding the tire to the liner with the slug?
Never tried them so just wondering, could you carry a long stem inner tube maybe a smaller 29er one and in the case of a big failure just take out the valve and whack a tube in as well?
Great content, 🙌
Is there a minimum internal rim width requirement for using such liners? And, what is the minimum if there is one?
Off topic, but can we have a closer look at the under bar light mount on Shane’s bike?
It's the standard Exposure mount for their big ass Six Pack or MK15 lights 👌
But did rolling resistance increase
"you have to add tire pressure because the liners reduce the amount of air volume" 2:53 This is just straight up wrong. The tire pressure you should run is mainly determined by contact patch size (narrower requiring higher pressures) and protection from rim impacts. Contact patch size remains the same since the liner doesn't change the size of the tire, and protection from rim impacts is strictly improved since the liner only adds protection on top of the travel the tire naturally offers.
The vittoria page you link in the description even talks about how tire liners allow you to run lower pressures. If you look at the product page of schwalbe's procore liner, the first benefit they list is "Tire pressure can be reduced". The gnarly liner product page talks about lowering pressures, and certainly says nothing about having to raise them. Lower pressures are the entire point of tire liners. If you watch other media reviews, you will continuously see people talk about the lower pressures they can use with liners. Using higher pressures makes this video very uninformative since you're basing what you're saying on an incorrect way of using tire liners.
I increased my tyre pressure from roughly 20psi to around 25 because the tyre wasn't maintaining its shape for confident riding on the smoother surfaces to/from the gravel trails or on the roads ridden between them. Without increasing the pressure they were sagging and flopping through corners. "Tyre pressure can be reduced" is true of how tyre liners are marketed and I've seen all the slow motion shots of MTB rims slamming into hard edges, but my experience with mixed terrain riding was the lower pressures made for sloppy handling. I'm not on a downhill bike trying to squeeze every fraction of contact patch for faster rugs, I still need enough air to navigate a roundabout without the tyre rolling off the rim.
@@JustRideAdelaide Yeah that's completely fair, and if the tire is sagging and flopping in corners, you should indeed not lower pressures since liners don't do a lot to help with that, but recommending that people have to add tire pressure when using a liner isn't good general advice.
What you're saying about the tire sagging & rolling is very valid, and could have made for a very interesting conversation in the video about when liners don't actually allow you to lower pressures and what to watch out for. People with narrower tires might actually benefit more from liners than people with 2 inch tires like you. Narrower tires have less rim protection, and don't run into stability problems as fast. For example, I run 40C g one speeds at 3 bar, and have pinch flatted twice. Since my tire isn't that wide relative to my 22i rims, my tire stability is still really good. That means that a liner would allow me to further lower my tire pressures and enjoy added protection without compromising tire stability.
You could talk about tire pressure & tire roll in a video about rim width perhaps. I'd be really interested to see if a wider rim allows you to run lower pressures by providing more stability to the tire. That could make for a really interesting perspective on how the amount of benefit you get from a liner also depends on your rim width.
I really like your channel by the way, loved your video on frame facing.
The liner has give in it so its like stacking 2 cushions on your couch. These liners are also foam, they have a digressive load curve the more you load them. Rubber gets harder the more you load it, inflated balloons do not.
Also remember psi, its per square inch. Any manufacturer saying you can run lower pressures is dreaming. Sure it's possible but the only gain would be comfort.
In a worst case situation, can your still ride with no air in the tires to get home without damaging the rim? Sort of a run flat option for a bike.
It depends on what brand. I didn't mention this feature in case I set incorrect expectations for all liners. Some can be ridden when flat but not all
@@JustRideAdelaide Good point. There is also a company that sells tubeless inserts that do not require air. They make different density models for common sizes to adapt to weight and ride preferences. Obviously, an insert is heavier than the air it replaces so maybe best suited to commuting. Keep up the quality content. I like how you test products for enough time to confirm initial impressions.
Are these biodegradable when lifespan has reached its maximum?
I like the idea of tyre liners but they are just a price gouge, should cost about the same as a latex inner tube, they are just a piece of foam after all.
And they are universal size...DIY cut to length is shocking
We call these inserts. These seem excessively expensive for what they are.
Probably not worthwhile on the road? Yeah idk about that. On a perfectly smooth track, ok, but every road will have harsh sections.
This should cost ten dollars. You have to cut it to size, use zip ties and duct tape. Scratch that. 8 dollars. Nice valves though.
Euhm there are also a lot ot tyreliners that you don't need to cut and ziptie/tape together, honestly this one is just an aweful example to be honest! Not that I use them though, not mtb'in/gravelriding enough that I have much problem with my tubeless setup.
Ha, ha. Nice dis on roadies. Anyway, this whole time, I thought that tire liners meant a type of rim tape that instead went inside of the tire. I think a better name for these puffy liners would be "tire snakes". Or... (anyone have a better name?)
"pinch flats have been known for a few years"
Ah to be young and believe that everything is new. Chances are your grandfather had pinch flats 😀👍
Gravel bikers are the ricers of the bike world.
$110 is a joke, just like your cycling hat. I see the purpose of the former at least