The Most Consistently Strong Guilty Gear Strive Characters
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2022
- streamed Aug. 16, 2022
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Why analyze character power when I could just hate all of them except mine
Valid
I hate them all including my own.
spittin
@@theoldfashionedgamerguy665 remember, even in a mirror match, the opponent has a broken character
Average Strive Enjoyer:
it's interesting to note that even though axl is considered bottom tier, two of them made it to evo top 16
axl is not bottom tier in tournament
As an Axl main, he's definitely not bad, just niche. They're comfortable in a ton of matchups, but struggle with tourney characters like HC.
Axl is a good tournament character tbh! Does well vs characters like Zato/Leo/Nago for instance.
@@SupermanSajam What defines a character that is NOT good in a tournament setting? Needing to take risks to function? Like, is Sol a bad tournament character?
@@NaotoSaysNo the reason I believe axl to be a strong tournament character compared to other characters in his general area because his matchups against common, strong characters happen to be solid, but ALSO because he's pretty consistent. You're not dependent on a multi-step win con like say Jack-O, and you don't have to manage a resource. This level of just working is good for a tournament setting, since you're not always going to be on your A game.
Coming from a grappler player, its ok that Pot is ass. The Big body slow grapplers are born and molded in the fires of F tier throughtout fighting game history.
we're just paying for our sins from GGACR days
@@bassbusterx remove the R, AC Pot was the real crime
Spoken like a proud grabbler main
I just want his buttons to mean something. 2P, useless as low mash, zero conversion. 5k disjointed... for zero reason. 2S, get disjoint that does nothing in neutral. HS disjointed to still lose neutral against pokes. 6K, ha ha loser, you messed up and used 6k.
Jack-O is forgotten 😔
Droppin mad youtube tidbits. I like it. I never have time to watch your stream, except for the last friday of every month, but I enjoy hearing your unique and sensible opinions on whatever you feel like talking about.
It's kinda funny how Ramlethal has been top tier since day 1 yet still hasn't won any big tournaments (as far as I know)
The 6th grade tier list strikes again.
Supernoon won the pinnacle iirc.
Probably cuz all Ram players have terrible defense
@@user-fe5bm6ot8o You should watch the video from a few days ago called "The Game Isn't Inconsistent Just Because You Lost" and then jump to around 3:50. That's you right now.
Retrospectively, I don't think people would consider her top tier at launch. The way her rekkas work to actually create rewarding counter-hits and easy efficient combos wasn't added until 1/5. Vanilla Sol also duffed her and vortex'd through the gameplan into TODs.
As a spectator happy chaos was wild to look at at evo. Before the casters could finish saying hes out of bullets he had usually pulled off a full reload somehow. His biggest crime though has to be that his pressure is kinda boring to watch compared to nago death beyblade, zato horror menagerie and mei dolphin swarm.
when HC released I said the fact that he can cover almost full reloads of a guard crush shot must be a development oversight
2.0 Millia is definitely not a top tier, but she feels a lot more consistent this patch. She gets to play her offence more often which feels great, but there are still a lot of characters that don't have to care about what she's doing.
As a Millia main, I’m 100% satisfied with her this patch. I don’t want them to change a thing.
@@kevin933 you're nuts
@@kevin933 literally insane
@@joefriedman4260
Dang, someone shares their opinion and they get flamed for it, kinda cringe.
@@itsozzy1378 well it's just that she kinda has objective flaws that I'm pretty sure 90% of players would want removed. I personally wasn't trying to be insulting, just trying to humorously highlight that their opinion differs from the norm.
If and when Johnny comes back, Chemical Love should hit him even when he crouches. It's only fair.
Did I miss him talking about Gio or was she not discussed?
If they just gave Pot better frame data, especially with his 2p and Hammerfall Break he'd be a lot better. He loses in almost every situation and has to take big risks during his offense(If he even gets too go on offense) with reward that often doesn't usually feel like it's enough.
him an i-no have the only 4f active close slashes in the game, why?
doing the funny grab is reward enough for me
@@mezi156 because both are knockdown dependent characters with persistent need for mix to get their offense over conversions.
Personally I think Sol is actually closer to the needs some help duo/trio than the general pool of the cast. The current version of the game is treating him pretty badly I feel, his risk reward feels really bad especially compared to most other characters. His damage in neutral is actually really low now, and 5k is not nearly as rewarding a button as it used to be or as it would seem even now. His dustloops are good but they require specific setups several of which require meter and dont do that much better damage. Sol just can't really do much besides clean hit hvv route which will always get bursted multiple times a set or wacky frc combos that dont even do that much damage and are a lot harder to pull off than HC or ram hitting a light into imagination
Fits sol nerf was fine but they nerfed him 3 fucking times
He was perfect like last patch, IDK why they nerfed him. He was in a great spot before. Like I never really play him but I don't like him as much this patch.
I agree 100%. They went too hard on him in the last patch. I thought that changing the attack level of 5K was reasonable but that by itself changed so much about the character that the other nerfs they gave him were just overkill
@@siddhartha894 Same for May lol
Hey so, I’m not a pro or even that good at the game but I took some averages for matchup winrates from both pc and console across each bracket, global, top 1k and top 100 as displayed by rating update. Leo and Ram didn’t perform very well while HC, Nago and GL were overwhelmingly winning. Zato was a distant 4th followed by Baiken, Chipp, Jack-O and Ky. Why does the data play out like this when tier lists made by pro players are pretty different?
Yea that always pissed me off that you can’t juggle Leo very much
11:15 speaking of which... Bridget is back and she probably wants her ACPR 6S back from Jack-o who is using it as 6H for 2 games at this point.
On the other hand, moves changing hands means we might still see Venom despite his gameplay niche being somewhat filled by Jack-O and Testament stole his teleport.
10:10 May only hard knocks down post wall break if she supered you to break the wall, like any other character in the game. Otherwise it doesn't
Yeah, I was a bit confused on that part too.
What's funny is that if Nago didn't have the Guts and effective Health he does, then he probably wouldn't be top tier. He's be pretty high up though, probably still top 10 or top 12. It's just the combination of everything he has defensively AND his health bar that massively skews risk reward in his favor most of the time.
I love my boi.
I'd say he's definitely still top tier, he just has to be more patient now.
@@felixc.4294 Damn, you right. XD
It encourages a higher skill floor, but the ceiling is still there.
I have hard time dealing with corner pressures. People say Ky's honest but most of the time I get opened up continuously once I'm put in the corners due to his strike/throw game. What am I missing? I main Zato and low celestial (1650+ rating, 450 level). Any tips would be appreciated.
Well people really cant give u tips in guessing game situations. Ky is a tough matchup for Zato cuz he can kill eddie quite easily, but as far as dealing with his strike throw game u need to read your opponent a bit and also balance risk reward better than your opponent. And if you dont then they are better simple as that. Not that u cant improve but no advice will help you be better when it comes to basic fighting game fundamentals. You just need to play more.
@@maxrusty3596 Thank you. This is a good advice. Knowing that I'm not missing out on anything trivial mechanic wise alone gives me confirmation where I need to get better. It's exactly what I needed. Much appreciated
I know that guilty gear has only had one grappler typically which is Potemkin but I'd like to see one more grappler archetype added imo
Xrd johnny was the best grappler in the game, jokes aside a faster type grappler would be pretty cool
Play Sol.
Same type of characters were strong last patch. Characters that need meter the least because there are only 2 bars in strive and one bar is extremely powerful.
Any Anji?
What determines how much bar someone builds? I always hear that Ram builds bar fast and Millia is very slow. Is there a certain attribute that determines this?
Yes, meter gain is a stat in the game. Generally characters with low dash movement gets the highest gain, Pot/Nago. It also depends on archetypes. Zoners usually end up with lowest meter gain.
@@seokkyunhong8812 I hear Chipp builds it quick so idk. Feels so hard to figure out LOL
@@MikeyDLuffy you can look it up. Chipp does have fast gain for a runner though.
Been thinking this recently with Ky, I have to take too much risk offensively in the corner to just get a grab and set back up into CSE. With Ram/nago, they take very little risk (while massively building up your risc) for a huge payout if something connects. Hoping they do something about that. Frame data changes for ky is a great idea
ky downplay aside, it's just that the top tiers have rights that other characters don't. Their offense is very consistent at a high level and doesn't open them up in the process of throwing out blockstrings/mix
@@nuthut1396 I think it would be best for the rest of the cast to be somewhere around Ky's current powerlevel, because every character becoming as strong as Ram or HC sounds really degenerate
I hope for the new season they eventually give the characters more moves. I think having more options for everyone would shake up the game's balance in interesting ways.
Not even in a complain-y way, but I feel like if they nerfed Ram and Nago and gave them new moves they’d be a lot more interesting/fun to play (for me personally)
@@kelmo7812 This is the problem people have had with the game from day 0. Its not gonna happen tho sadly.
@@maxrusty3596 yeah 😔
I want to see Potemkin buffs, I never see him. :(
I love Chipp to death and I do agree with where most ppl rate him, just under those top 5-7 characters. He really feels like the only character who can actually maneuver around those crazy characters' neutral. But that's the issue. he spends all his time dealing with their neutral just for a chance to put them in the blender. It just doesn't feel like the same game when the top tiers dont have to do that dance because their neutral is just them forcing their gameplan.
Here's to hoping for the winter patch gives ppl some fun new toys!
Silly Faust so silly!!!
Cant unsee fucked- up ahegao face on the top right of the thumbnail.
I really think the game needs new moves, main problem I feel is that some matchups are really bad even for mid-tier characters simply because it feels like they are lacking options
Also reducing the overall damage would always be nice, I still cannot believe they removed scaling from RRC
how many times are you gonna ask for them to lower damage in a game that is clearly not about that
@@Uooooooooooooh Honestly this. It's been a whole year now since the game came out, it's pretty obvious that the devs are sticking to their guns with how damage works. If you're not cool with that then there's a bunch of other fun fighting games to play with lower overall damage.
I could see slightly reduced damage to account for new options but that's it.
removing the scaling from rrc helps midtiers who have weak reward off mix tbh. even tho it's a universal buff, i feel like almost all of the top 5 use their meter in diff ways (hc, ram and zato wanna save meter for super, leo wants to prc their projectile and flashkick more). Nago likes rrc, but his damage was already ridiculous and his potential for one chancing you is around the same regardless.
Lower damage increases tier gap, not reduce it.
Everyone hatin' on my White Guy Samurai, Johnny. Can't get no love in GG
I want more moves for all characters.
Nothing to do with balance, I just want new shit cuz it's fun
Considering that previous GG games have received expansions like XRD and XX, it's likely Strive will go through a similar phase, because I 100% agree with this and hope down the road characters get more moves, or expansion upon the mechanics.
The most recent system wide changes just reinforced strike/pressure as the predominant game plan. Pot was already having trouble since a lot of characters just did strike/throw better than him. Everyone with a dash by nature had a huge advantage in that game plan. He needed Oki to start it off and they could do it from neutral as dash -> throw is a strong option which in turn gives them Oki that Pot is really susceptible.
When you say characters good in tournament and not good on tournament what do you mean?
Do you mean certain characters do better in first to 3 as opposed to first to 10? Where is the cutoff?
yeah exactly that!, mostly cuz of how fast/easy it is to adapt to that character's gameplan, style, etc, or simply put: it not being popular also makes it kind of unknown
This usually refers to a character's consistency, as well as having a simpler gameplan that's easier to execute.
A big part of it is how complicated the character is. When the chips are down and the pressure is on if your character wins off of simple combos it's going to be easier to perform than trying to handle your nerves and also juggle a complicated game plan.
It depends on their consistency and their matchup spreads. Their gameplans need to be consistently effective and they need to perform well against common tournament characters
As a third note: How good is your character at screwing with top tiers? Axl is surprisingly good at that, despite being weak overall he has good matchups.
I've stolen so many games off of the back of H Sword toss RC and I wish I felt bad about it
Honestly, kind of bummed about this patch. The weaker characters all got buffs to narrow the difference between high tiers and low tiers, but gaps in offense for basically everyone all got buffs so that everyone can cover them with something, and now defense is hell. It's a shame, because until this last patch, this was definitely one of my favorites, but I'm not really having as much fun with the game now.
In the absence of literally any other objective, quantifiable metrics of character strength, I think we have to take tournament results as the only real indicator. And I will go to my grave defending ram because her options at fullscreen, midscreen OR in the corner simply aren't on the same level as Nago/Zato/HC/Leo, and tourney results definitely reflect that
Username checks out
I think Ram deserves her position up there, because she has many "fundamental" advantages that are best in class. Because so much of her pressure and combo game is built around her rekka, she builds tons of meter, which she can easily and stably convert into very high damage. She also has the privilege of blessed buttons and frame data, many of which can control the pace of the match on their own, and an easy way to turn every hit into a hard knockdown, both air and ground.
On the other hand, I agree with you that she just isn't as good as the other 4 characters you mentioned. A big issue I've noticed is that she's pretty reliant on having the corner slightly closer in order to actually present threatening options midscreen. If the opponent is out of sword-toss range, she doesn't have an easy way to force them to do something, like how HC can threaten to built resources and SA, Nago can beyblade or teleport (and you're never out of range once he has enough blood lol), Leo can convert his 236S/H into knockdowns/backturn, and Zato can use drill and frog to smother the ground and air, as well as stay behind oppose.
Ram's pressure is really dangerous in the corner, but I don't think she can access it as easily from midscreen as the other strongest characters, which is a pretty big relative issue imo.
If I had to order them, it'd probably be HC>Leo>Nago>Ram>Zato. She just doesn't have the results to imply that she's really worthy of that "best in the game/tied for best" tag.
Honestly I think Ram's main problem IN TOURNAMENT is that she's just better Ky. She's too honest (hear me out) and doesn't have any true bullshit to random out matches, unlike Leo/Nago/HC (besides mortobato which is extremely high risk). Also, her pressure is oppressive but mostly linear and all mids -- every other top tier has true mixups that lead to your death when you guess wrong that not even top players can block consistently (compare Ram's threat of throw to Nago or Leo). Once you understand her pressure the only thing that can really kill you is your own impatience, or her throwing you like 6 times.
HOWEVER, I still think she has some insane advantages that make up for her lack of true scary mixups. Best in class normals on nearly every button, best in class neutral, best in class conversion ability off of most hits, probably the best meter generation in the game, very effective meter usage both for pressure and for damage, very safe pressure that requires minimal commitment, excellent RISC buildup through long, safe blockstrings. Basically she has all of the tools to slowly break you down as opposed to other top tiers that will loop guess-or-die situations, and I think this inherently makes her easier to build a stable gameplan against.
@@felixc.4294 "Leo can convert his 236s into knockdowns"
And depending on range, he can do some silly dash+236h stuff to get a backturn meaty that beats grab, which most people will use.
Potemkin :(
Daisuke really let him have one good game in +R and then vowed to never let him reach half his power
He bodies Anji at least 😶
I'll come back to guilty gear when potempkin gets some love.
Sol Sweep!
IMO Happy Chaos is playing Xrd while everyone else is playing Strive 😆 In Xrd plenty of the cast was as OD as Happy Chaos. Heck in backturn Leo was waaaaaay more OD in Xrd than he is in Strive and in Xrd he was at best mid tier.
I feel Baiken is currently one of those characters that's alright, ya know like pretty good, but just not that great in the tournament scene.
It's like YEEEEEAH I could try and beat you with the busty samurai lady....or I could just throw a dolphin at you or two v 1 you with the dude in black or 2 shot you with Guilty Gear Yasuke.
baiken is much stronger than may
@@kak3143MUCH stronger you say?
@@Ion0X definitely much stronger
Baiken is def stronger than may. If you're referring to Slash at EVO, he's just THAT good. Not to say may is weak or anything, far from it, but Baiken is ridiculous this patch, she just doesn't have any top level representation
you have the right idea, but its not because baiken is weak, shes pretty strong, its because she's (relatively) new. a player will want to gravitate towards what they know works as to something unfamiliar (unless they're obviously strong like chaos), especially in a tournament setting where they could be putting money on the line.
I dont know why people dont try using potemkin to counter happy chaos more. I feel like thats HC's only bad matchup really
Because it’s not
????????
It was a good counter to ZONER happy chaos. Rushton chaos, like most Rushton characters, gets to eat the big guy alive.
@@simplyeyeronic1443 yeah i suppose thats true, potemkin is the one character that HC can not zone out though. I guess it was a better matchup for pot when he still had reversal super too
I-no was better, until they nerfed stroke into oblivion. That and the HC matchup is an instant loss.
Ino amd HC matchup is a lot better now i think. Last patch it was insta loss but now, HC is more obligated to get closer to u so u can easily hit chemical love if u see them focus or reload.
It really was a baffling nerf, like it's not like the move didn't have any risk to it since it has a long start up you can throw. It's not a move I heard anyone really complain about like say Gio 2D which was also nerfed.
In these comments, several people rediscover one of the many reasons for Strive's heavy initial criticism by old players.
Thought this was going to be a BT joke ngl
which is?
Ah yes, the classic Ky downplay. Everyone knows he's the best character in the game and the greatest character in lore.
they’ve gutted and reworked happy’s gun every god damn patch and it’s still the most annoying shit in the game