UPDATE: There IS a version of the PCS program that does NOT require an Extron Insider account or a sign in found here: www.dimedtec.de/downloads/Extron/PCS/ Be sure to download the first option, FW 4.7.1 as the latest version requires a sign in. This is a HUGE DEAL, as long as the link is up, anyone can use this method for downscaling. Thank you @iamfearlezz for your update on the DSC 301 HD. I clearly need to work on my googling skills. Link to pre-made 240p EDID: filthypants.blogspot.com/2014/11/creating-custom-edid-for-arcade-monitor.html?m=1
We’re back baby! Episodes will release a lot slower than the last round as I’m waiting for on-addon hardware for some other scalers. Thanks again for sticking around!
@joshuakelly9390 Yep the Morph 4K and OSSC Pro. Both will have a modular output DAC that I’m waiting on for it to be a complete package. I hope someone in my circle gets a tink4k for me to try
My OSSC Pro is on the way and I can’t wait to test it. I hope the addon DAC can be purchased soon as that’s the missing piece of the puzzle so I can present it as a complete package
Very interesting video, thank you for your commitment and contribution to the topic. I've used PCS with the DSC 301 HD so something tells me a 240p super resolution will behave the same on both devices, given an EDID profile can be properly dialed in. The EDID tweaking is similar to the time I created a 240p super resolution output from my video wall processor (Datapath x4 clone). IIRC I used standard 480i timings as a baseline and seemingly managed to dial it in succesfully as I didn't notice any frame drops. I'll have to do some more testing however. I'll run a test on the DSC when able and let you know how it goes! 🙏
I knew there had to be another Extron Insider out there haha. If you could check that would be awesome but only of time permits. I think the easiest way to see if the video is 60Hz or not is to film with your phone’s camera. If you have more control over the frame rate and shutter then even better to see if there’s rolling lines like in my case. Otherwise the sega DC 240p test suite in 480p with a scroll test would also be sufficient. I using the Corio’s timings as my template but there were different parameters to be entered ie no distinct back porch, just active pixel count. Thanks again for letting me know your experience with it!
So I just did some experimenting on the DSC 301 but only had access to an older EDID Manager which only reads the modelines. I therefore had to default to an existing 1920x240 BIN file that I found online. Dialing in the picture controls was a bit tricky but the end result was unbelievably crisp. I couldn't notice any frame drops in person or viewing it through my phone's camera set to 1/60 shutter speed either. The only obvious drawback that I noticed is that the OSD displays so far to the side that it's unviewable on the CRT, but it was fairly easy to circumvent through the preset function and the PCS software. I'll definitely experiment some more and will try to verify the vertical refresh rate. Luckily, Extron's EDID manager is not necessary for creating/editing a 240p profile as the PCS software will read the BIN file regardless of its origin.
@IamFearLezz that is super helpful thank you! I hadn’t found a pre-existing 240p.bin res until I googled 1920 x 240 and found one on filthy pants’ blog. I’ll try this tonight and report back, that’ll tell me if it’s the IN1606 or if I just can’t make a decent EDID file lol
@IamFearLezz so I tried out the pre-made 1920x240p EDID. It’s coded as a VGA res which the IN1606 wouldn’t let me upload so I had to change it to HDMI 1.3 but I otherwise didn’t touch the resolution. The screen rolled vertically until I reduced the vertical picture from 240 to 233 pixels. It’s running at 14.6KHz and about 57fps according to my Extron scan rate indicator. When I film the CRT the shutter syncs somewhere between 57 and 58 so it’s getting close but there’s still frame skips. It’s an improvement from 55-56fps so maybe it needs a little more fine tuning
@@MarcoRetro316 It seems like the two devices are reacting differently to the EDID. I did notice that the horizontal scanning frequency was rather low (
I really hope it’s my amateur EDID resolution crafting as all the stock HD resolutions were 60Hz. Who knows, if someone with more experience can enlighten me
nice vid about downscaling alternative .😃👍 i have the extron dvi 300, and read the manual about SPPCP software. there is such as i/o setting. but no further information about it. need 2.5mm jack rs232 that i don't have. still curious about this devices if it can / not downscaling like that. 😀
Thanks! I have the RGB DVI 300, I’m sure it’s the same as yours. I’ve used it with the SPPCP program and it was really only a GUI to control the unit which didn’t add anything that the unit can’t already do with it’s OSD menu and it didn’t lead to any back door methods of downscaling to 240p. They’re still great to use in a piggy back downscaling chain to drop resolutions to 480p to send into a GBS. They have 0-1 variable frames of lag, not bad.
Very interesting indeed. Just a thought : could one of your DAC might be messing with the refresh rate ? It could be interesting to try using an IN1508, which is designed to output analog video and could do the same downscaling/picture manipulation. Happy that you've managed to bypass the Extron Inisder requirment :)
I was hoping that would be the case, but when I ‘DACed’ the output using the HDMI to ypbpr converter, or through an HDMI to VGA converter and then the Extron RGB interface to combine sync, it was still 55-56Hz. I’m leaning towards it being my EDID resolution files but I felt I troubleshat all the 240p timings I could with no change to the vertical frequency. Such a shame the DVS 605 was defective as it was also analog output. If I come across another device on the PCS list then I may follow up with my results
Time and time again it’s proven that the scene needs a dedicated fpga downscaler device. Honestly I have lost interest in downscaling but if someone released a product Id buy it in a heartbeat.
I doubt we’ll get a dedicated Downscaler anytime soon unfortunately. The best that I see my sights on are the OSSC Pro and Morph 4K which will have an addon analog output
@@MarcoRetro316 Obrigado, aqui no Brasil é quase impossível de encontrar, só temos por aqui GBS Control da China. Encontrei o Extron DVS 605 e um Corio C2 2250a. Qual desses conseguem um 240p satisfatório ?
@@finalboss5545 on the Shmups Corio2 thread, it says the C2 2250A ‘should work but not confirmed’. The Extron DVS 605 will work but you need to have an Extron Insider account so I wouldn’t recommended to buy one unless you already have access to the software
The down scaler with the minimum input lag will always be my pick. To me it makes no sense to use a CRT if you're going to use a down scaler with a lot of input lag. So the RetroTink 5x and the GBS-C remains my top picks. 😎🍻
The sentiment was always to get your hands on whatever you could for 240p downscaling, but now that there’s more information out there about these, I have to agree; GBS-C for entry level, and the RetroTink 5X for those with extra cash that need the additional perks. If budget or 1080p input is a higher proprietary I’d still recommend any of the compatible Corio2 scalers. Let’s see how the OSSC Pro goes…
UPDATE: There IS a version of the PCS program that does NOT require an Extron Insider account or a sign in found here: www.dimedtec.de/downloads/Extron/PCS/
Be sure to download the first option, FW 4.7.1 as the latest version requires a sign in. This is a HUGE DEAL, as long as the link is up, anyone can use this method for downscaling. Thank you @iamfearlezz for your update on the DSC 301 HD. I clearly need to work on my googling skills.
Link to pre-made 240p EDID:
filthypants.blogspot.com/2014/11/creating-custom-edid-for-arcade-monitor.html?m=1
Babe wake up, marcoretro just dropped a new banger
We’re back baby! Episodes will release a lot slower than the last round as I’m waiting for on-addon hardware for some other scalers. Thanks again for sticking around!
@@MarcoRetro316 Morphin time? Would love to see a shot at tink4k too
@joshuakelly9390 Yep the Morph 4K and OSSC Pro. Both will have a modular output DAC that I’m waiting on for it to be a complete package. I hope someone in my circle gets a tink4k for me to try
Another great video. You are going to love the pro when you get it. it takes care of everything and its easy
My OSSC Pro is on the way and I can’t wait to test it. I hope the addon DAC can be purchased soon as that’s the missing piece of the puzzle so I can present it as a complete package
Very interesting video, thank you for your commitment and contribution to the topic.
I've used PCS with the DSC 301 HD so something tells me a 240p super resolution will behave the same on both devices, given an EDID profile can be properly dialed in.
The EDID tweaking is similar to the time I created a 240p super resolution output from my video wall processor (Datapath x4 clone). IIRC I used standard 480i timings as a baseline and seemingly managed to dial it in succesfully as I didn't notice any frame drops. I'll have to do some more testing however.
I'll run a test on the DSC when able and let you know how it goes! 🙏
I knew there had to be another Extron Insider out there haha. If you could check that would be awesome but only of time permits. I think the easiest way to see if the video is 60Hz or not is to film with your phone’s camera. If you have more control over the frame rate and shutter then even better to see if there’s rolling lines like in my case. Otherwise the sega DC 240p test suite in 480p with a scroll test would also be sufficient. I using the Corio’s timings as my template but there were different parameters to be entered ie no distinct back porch, just active pixel count. Thanks again for letting me know your experience with it!
So I just did some experimenting on the DSC 301 but only had access to an older EDID Manager which only reads the modelines. I therefore had to default to an existing 1920x240 BIN file that I found online.
Dialing in the picture controls was a bit tricky but the end result was unbelievably crisp. I couldn't notice any frame drops in person or viewing it through my phone's camera set to 1/60 shutter speed either.
The only obvious drawback that I noticed is that the OSD displays so far to the side that it's unviewable on the CRT, but it was fairly easy to circumvent through the preset function and the PCS software.
I'll definitely experiment some more and will try to verify the vertical refresh rate. Luckily, Extron's EDID manager is not necessary for creating/editing a 240p profile as the PCS software will read the BIN file regardless of its origin.
@IamFearLezz that is super helpful thank you! I hadn’t found a pre-existing 240p.bin res until I googled 1920 x 240 and found one on filthy pants’ blog. I’ll try this tonight and report back, that’ll tell me if it’s the IN1606 or if I just can’t make a decent EDID file lol
@IamFearLezz so I tried out the pre-made 1920x240p EDID. It’s coded as a VGA res which the IN1606 wouldn’t let me upload so I had to change it to HDMI 1.3 but I otherwise didn’t touch the resolution. The screen rolled vertically until I reduced the vertical picture from 240 to 233 pixels. It’s running at 14.6KHz and about 57fps according to my Extron scan rate indicator. When I film the CRT the shutter syncs somewhere between 57 and 58 so it’s getting close but there’s still frame skips. It’s an improvement from 55-56fps so maybe it needs a little more fine tuning
@@MarcoRetro316 It seems like the two devices are reacting differently to the EDID. I did notice that the horizontal scanning frequency was rather low (
Nice output image but that frame dropping is brutal.
I really hope it’s my amateur EDID resolution crafting as all the stock HD resolutions were 60Hz. Who knows, if someone with more experience can enlighten me
nice vid about downscaling alternative .😃👍 i have the extron dvi 300, and read the manual about SPPCP software. there is such as i/o setting. but no further information about it. need 2.5mm jack rs232 that i don't have. still curious about this devices if it can / not downscaling like that. 😀
Thanks! I have the RGB DVI 300, I’m sure it’s the same as yours. I’ve used it with the SPPCP program and it was really only a GUI to control the unit which didn’t add anything that the unit can’t already do with it’s OSD menu and it didn’t lead to any back door methods of downscaling to 240p. They’re still great to use in a piggy back downscaling chain to drop resolutions to 480p to send into a GBS. They have 0-1 variable frames of lag, not bad.
Very interesting indeed. Just a thought : could one of your DAC might be messing with the refresh rate ? It could be interesting to try using an IN1508, which is designed to output analog video and could do the same downscaling/picture manipulation. Happy that you've managed to bypass the Extron Inisder requirment :)
I was hoping that would be the case, but when I ‘DACed’ the output using the HDMI to ypbpr converter, or through an HDMI to VGA converter and then the Extron RGB interface to combine sync, it was still 55-56Hz. I’m leaning towards it being my EDID resolution files but I felt I troubleshat all the 240p timings I could with no change to the vertical frequency. Such a shame the DVS 605 was defective as it was also analog output. If I come across another device on the PCS list then I may follow up with my results
Time and time again it’s proven that the scene needs a dedicated fpga downscaler device. Honestly I have lost interest in downscaling but if someone released a product Id buy it in a heartbeat.
I doubt we’ll get a dedicated Downscaler anytime soon unfortunately. The best that I see my sights on are the OSSC Pro and Morph 4K which will have an addon analog output
Ola, sabe me dizer se o Extron CVC 100 ou 200 consegue o downscaling 240p ?
Those units apparently transcode and not scale. Also they have no communication port to program them
@@MarcoRetro316 Obrigado, aqui no Brasil é quase impossível de encontrar, só temos por aqui GBS Control da China.
Encontrei o Extron DVS 605 e um Corio C2 2250a.
Qual desses conseguem um 240p satisfatório ?
@@finalboss5545 on the Shmups Corio2 thread, it says the C2 2250A ‘should work but not confirmed’. The Extron DVS 605 will work but you need to have an Extron Insider account so I wouldn’t recommended to buy one unless you already have access to the software
using Mistercast for this is a good option
For video, yes. I plan to feature Mistercast soon
The down scaler with the minimum input lag will always be my pick. To me it makes no sense to use a CRT if you're going to use a down scaler with a lot of input lag. So the RetroTink 5x and the GBS-C remains my top picks. 😎🍻
The sentiment was always to get your hands on whatever you could for 240p downscaling, but now that there’s more information out there about these, I have to agree; GBS-C for entry level, and the RetroTink 5X for those with extra cash that need the additional perks. If budget or 1080p input is a higher proprietary I’d still recommend any of the compatible Corio2 scalers. Let’s see how the OSSC Pro goes…