That's why I fly the Bonnie Blue Flag of Independence and the Stars and Bars Flag of Liberty . Because after many cowardly uncivilized attacks and robberies by thugs of the Union I am strongly opposed to the enemy tyranny of the Union (USA) and I won't allow the Stars and Stripes rag of tyranny and robbery on my property.
I've been fighting a self defense case for over a year now. Seems to me like they don't want you to defend yourself, and they enjoy letting the criminals get away
@@PAULYHOTDOGSS they're trying to charge me with brandishing a weapon, when I only brought out a weapon after the attack had already begun. Neither me or the other person pressed charges, and so I guess the police just wanted to get somebody for something
there are a lot of places that clearly DO NOT want you defending yourself in any way. i can think of no other reason why someone would ban body armour and mace. not to mention california recently bringing up (i don't know if it passed) a law making it a CRIME to stop someone who is stealing from you. at that point the criminals are running the prison.
@@tuseroni6085 Jesus, a crime to stop a thief? I'm in Cali, and smack dab in the middle of a weird place where the demographics are split, almost poetically. We've got 6 cities next to each other, all connected, and each one is more and more ghetto as you go further north. And it's absolutely astonishing to see the differences in police response, as well as their attitudes and all that. So stuff like what you're saying is a huge red flag for me lol. I live in the perfect place to get screwed over by both extremes of the demographics.
This is good advice. Someone local shot someone after they broke into their house and the perpetrator was carrying a loaded firearm. The court system tried their hardest to put the victim in jail, even with every scrap of evidence showing he was defending himself. We live in a messed up world.
The midwest states, North and South Dakota, whyoming, montana are some of the best states as far as self defense shootings. Most red states are much better than those controlled by democrats .
The prosecutor and DA need to win cases to get promotions… that’s all they care about. It’s not personal…May the best argument win. It’s not even about justice anymore. Our world lacks ethics and values and morals.
A police officer once told me to tell the cops, "Tell them you're under duress and you'll cooperate once you have an attorney present." I've also heard lawyers say, "Wait until you've had at least 2 full nights of good sleep and then you will answer questions with your attorney present." The justice system is a damn joke! Never talk to the police without an attorney.
As a retired cop: Don't tell them you're under "duress". It sounds dramatic and emotional. Just say you need to speak with an attorney before questioning. Don't give reasons. They are neither necessary or required. By law, no questioning can continue while the elements of custody and interrogation are met. If they explain that you are not in custody and can ask you anything they want (which is true), still don't answer. If you are not in custody than you can at least immediately call a lawyer. If one's not available, do not open your mouth.
If you just shot someone the cops aren't going to wait around for 2 days before they question you. Which is sad bc they're afforded 2 nights of sleep when they shoot someone
@@grendul4497 I have to wonder if the claim "I was in fear for my life" is heard by cops and prosecutors as another supposedly get out of trouble free card in the same way as "I cant breathe" is.
@@FighteroftheNightman Not true. And not only that, cops don't have the right to remain silent. It's amazing that you can just make stuff up and pawn it off as fact somehow.
@@FighteroftheNightman Cops don't have the right to remain silent concerning actions that happen during the line of duty. For the cops wanting to question you, that is why you always get transported to a hospital after a self-defense situation. The cops HAVE to let you go get checked out, and that is the time that you use to enforce that you won't answer questions without a lawyer present. You then simply tell your lawyer to give you a couple days to sleep it off before making their appearance for your interrogation. Cops MUST immediately stop asking questions if you are in their custody and are attempting to ask them when you demand a lawyer. If you aren't in custody, thus they can still technically keep asking questions and talking? Leave, make them do so if you are in the hospital and can't leave. If you are in custody and demand your lawyer in questioning, cops MUST immediately shut up and wait for a lawyer to be present before continuing. If you demand your lawyer but they still say ANYTHING, whatever is said after the demand for a lawyer is inadmissible due to civil rights.
1. Call 911 2. Explain: “I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself”. 3. Request: “Please send both police and an ambulance to this location” When responding officers arrive: 4. Comply: Follow all police instructions 5. Medical: Request medical attention, if necessary. 6. Silence: “I will cooperate 100 percent, but first I need my attorney” ( Do not talk further without your lawyer present).
Funny enough, sometimes they are the same people these days. Like those lawyers that went around with the protests molotoving police cars and handing them out to random people, basically distributing deadly weapons.
@@SideBit What you're talking about isn't excessive force, it's unlawful use of force. While prosecution has it's place it should only be used when the police have determined that a law has clearly been broken and in regard to the intent of law. Excessive force itself isn't a justification for civilian prosecution. When a gun is used on someone it's "deadly force" whether you shoot once or ten times, and deadly force needs to be used justifiably either way. However, this video is about self defense yet you are looking hard to turn law abiding citizens into criminals rather than accepting that it's criminal behavior that's the problem, not the "excessive force" that can result from criminal behavior.
Than why dont u cops get together and help the citizens out, for a change?! Rather than mindlessly obeying beurocrats.....than whining about "I'm just doing my job!" .. But u pigs will never do that, will u 👎👎👎
It's a disgrace a victim in a high stress situation must remember a checklist in their head to not get wrongly accused of something. Our system is absurd.
It’s mostly because of corruption. The system works when the system actually works. Right now people in the system refuse to let it work and have bogged it down with billions of unreadable and unnecessary laws.
How hard is STFU to remember? Even in self defense mode where I use muscle memory only, I can remember that. Can't speak if I wanted to, but I know not to. It takes me 72 hours to regain motor control over my muscle memory. Cop shows up pulling a gun and yelling he won't live long before that, I have no control over my trigger finger stopping the threat. At 72 hrs, my hand still goes for the gun, but I can stop it.
911 call “Ive been attacked the perpetrator has been shot.” PERIOD. Police arrive. “‘I will cooperate with your investigation after I have conferred with my attorney”. PERIOD That’s what a very experienced defense attorney advised.
Your very experienced defense attorney should have told you to never talk to the police directly. That is his job. In fact you are under no obligation to even talk to your own attorney, however to get the case resolved faster it would behoove you to assist your attorney by answering his questions and letting him relay your answers to the police. Mind you the police will try very hard to force you to talk to them, but again that is what your Fifth amendment right covers !
Basically your 5th and 6th amendment rights, bingo! Keeping all silence is not a good way, may confuse the police on scene. So, ppl please just remember these two phrases, nothing more, nothing less. I know that's hard.
I would add that after you hang up with 911, you immediately get on the line with your ccw insurance provider so they can alert a defense attorney to your needs.
My father was a concealed carrier when I was very young. His one rule was it’s ok to be polite with officers but never answer any of their questions. It’s been pretty much ingrained into me I’m glad to say especially with how law abiding citizens are now being treated in our country.
*Surprisingly* a large number of police officers are evil and only care about meeting their ticket quotas. This means if grandma who was also a victim, shot a gun into the air for trying to scare away the criminals then those evil police officers will write up a ticket where the evil prosecuting attorney then brings her into court for being charged with a crime. There's a large number of police officers with no morals, no sympathy and only care about meeting their ticket quotas. Be safe... when you see a police officer know that person might be an enemy only seeking to write up tickets on you.
As a current Dispatcher/911 operator, I can definitely say this is spot on. In the first place, when I get your 911 call that you had to defend yourself, I don't even NEED to know how many times you shot, at least not at first. I want to know that you're safe, and how many people were shot. I might need to ask where they were shot (ie, what part of the bod) and are they breathing, conscious etc. But don't tell me you fired "X number of shots". I want to know is the other person still armed. I want to know where your weapon is (because responding officers will want to know) and I will tell you to put the weapon down when the officers arrive. Basically, once I start asking questions, give me the straight-forward answers and DO NOT start volunteering tons of additional information.
Yeah volunteering information that wasn't asked is a good way to get yourself into a hole that's next to impossible to get out of. It happens more often than we think. I think humans are wired in such a way to feel like they have to explain almost everything or volunteer information that's not necessary, probably because oh we feel like this helps us look good or credible or oh we're honest we have nothing to hide honesty is the best policy. Unfortunately, it sounds good in theory and on paper, but in this world it gets you in trouble and you likely won't even know it.
The one important fact that he failed to mention is never say I had to kill him, instead say I had to stop him. It's the difference between premeditated murder and self-defense with an aggressive prosecutor.
Gaia Miranda said, *_instead say I had to stop him_* I would suggest not even saying anything like that. Officers, detectives, and attorneys will try to use anything you say to keep engaging you and the more you say, the more likely it is you WILL eventually say something that can be manipulated into something used against you by a prosecutor. Even talking with others that are not law enforcement or attorneys (like an on-scene paramedic who is checking you over) can get you in deep trouble as anyone can be called as a witness, and they may remember very differently what you said to them. Memory details are tricky things especially in dynamic environments with lots of things going on all at the same time.
@@exgenica - I strongly agree with everything you wrote. A person should always remember that nothing, absolutely nothing, you say to the cops will help your case. Respectfully decline to give a statement until after you've seen an attorney.
@@exgenica I had 80 hours of instruction and talked with 3 legal minds that were present there at time in and if for instance you happen to have a break-in at your house and somebody tries to kill you the one thing that you are within reasonable limits to say without harm to yourself is "I had to stop them". The alternative would be my death. They will put you on the stand at times and when they do you're going to have to explain yourself about why you fired a weapon that took their life eventually. And the answer is? "I had to STOP them"
Gaia Miranda dude you should pay more attention to the stuff being taught instead of trying to point out something he missed or didn't do right cause in fact the 2nd bulletin board point that was in the first three minutes of the video he says be clear that you shot to stop the threat. Which is exactly what you're saying he failed to say which is entirely false. Most people are not going to say anything to you but I feel it needs to be addressed for you're sake and other's dumb enough to believe you're comment before getting to three minutes in the video to see for themselves and learn what he is teaching. Just think of how that makes you look and sound like a know it all who doesn't really know jack or doesn't pay enough attention because you don't take the time to listen before you speak or you're too busy pointing out others mistakes instead of focusing on you're self or better yet what others did right instead of wrong. Not trying to be a dick or be disrespectful to you either but yeah he didn't fail to mention that..
It is an absolute tragedy how law abiding citizens, who are forced to protect themselves, are prosecuted much more harshly and aggressively than ACTUAL criminals committing ACTUAL CRIMES!
@@DetectivePlays0you don’t get prosecuted because you defended yourself in a self defense encounter. You get prosecuted because they don’t know if that’s what actually happened, and they have to determine which one of you is the criminal and if the reaction was justified and legal. It’s a game of ‘he said she said’, not ‘punish the good guy’.
The problem with that one is that he went hands-on with someone who was acting erratic but was neither brandishing a weapon or physically threatening someone and then choked him to death. You don’t get away with killing someone having a mental episode if you are a civilian
You need to go to the hospital for much more imminent issues. In that kind of stressful situation, if you have any kind of heart issue at all, you could be stressed to the point your are going to have a heart attack. It may not happen for hours afterward. You need to get checked out asap. There is no battle plan determined at that point. The battle plan needs to be determined days/months/years before you encounter the situation. You just execute what you have determined is the best path long ago.
@@NickFrom1228 "It may not happen for hours afterward." That is VERY IMPORTANT but not apparent to almost everyone. Very important. I commend you for writing that.
Don't think of your battle plan. Tell them that you will answer no questions about your activities without an attorney present, and let the attorney think of the battle plan.
I am 71 years old and a Vietnam Veteran. It's sad and very disturbing what America and Americans have become. Thank You for excellent advice, Best Regards
Unfortunately it has become the way it is because all the azz-wholes that protested the Vietnam war are the ones running the show now. Welcome home brother!
Thank you for your service. My father is also in Vietnam if you guys suffered enough there. It’s sad on the country that you signed to defend is literally putting us all out there to get harmed. And it’s purposeful that you have a blessed day and again, thank you for your service. I’m prior military as well, my heart goes out to all that are suffering under such a plan of destruction. Again, thank you for your service your hero I’ll never forget that
@@AMVideos117 Good Day. I had thought that after Vietnam, America would move on to being a better country. "Lessons Learned". Sadly, the contrary is what has come to pass. I have never seen our country so divided and in such chaos. America just can't stay out of unnecessary wars and Politically, we are in the midst of another "Civil War", with no end in sight. It Has Become More Important To "WIN" then it is to "Be RIGHT"... Thanks and Best Regards
Yeah but now days it’s the families , ( friends, teachers and anyone who knew them ) of these criminals all come forward and tell all kinds of stories , to the gun hating biased media that make the criminal look like a saint, or just having a temporary issues. And they sue the person that needs to defend themselves by shooting the criminal . And the press he,ps by digging into your life and basically putting you on trial before the real trial for anything in your life that makes you look like an irresponsible,violent ,gun loving psycho! Ex military then the press says , “ oh they were trained to kill” You Regularly concealed carry ….the press says “ they always had a gun on them” implying you were just itching to use it . And let’s not forget about digging up,any social media posts or photos you have ….. ore fodder for the isses media to make you look like a criminal and to further the Left’s narrative of “ we don’t need the Second Amendment, let’s get rid of it or neuter it so it exists on paper but because of so many restrictive gun control laws, no one canexersize their 2 A rights in reality, no matter what the circumstances are.
The biggest heartbreak of my adult life is the realization that our court system will do whatever it can to attack law-biding patriots who defend their lives and loved ones. Thank you for posting this.
Law abiding citizens have good nature and are willing to serve their community. Sadly, this sense of service can and will be used against them by law enforcement.
I'm a retired Deputy Sheriff. During my time in Law Enforcement the biggest threat to my personal safety and the main reason situations were eliminated were due to Horrible Dispatchers. I know there are some amazing ones out there but I never encountered one. You wouldn't believe the insane crap they caused. Lives have been lost because of their attitudes and egos. Kinda goes the same for the uniforms as well these days. We need to better vet and train them all. And a Public Review Board is needed.
I'm a survivor of this. I had called 911 when a former house mate attacked and chased me down a hall over apple juice she thought I stole but she had given me. The police never showed up even though I vividly remember calling them and later I found out that there had been no record of my calling 911. So somehow my call had been lost to cyberspace and my former house mate could of ended me and probably gotten away with it all because I couldn't get police out to the house because dispatch somehow lost my call. It was very traumatic. Then that same lady tried to get me in jail in retaliation for my non criminal reaction to her abuse. She had a 6 year old who could not read a single word and mom would just stay in bed all day after partying all night. I only lived there 6 weeks but it felt like 6 years. I'm lucky to get out alive because the landlord sided with my attacker blaming everything on me.
Considering that most people don't routinely engage in armed self-defense, and lack the "muscle memory" for dealing with LEOs and the tactics they use, I think it would be really interesting to see a series of videos that detail some of the ways 911 operators and police on the scene try to get you provide details, maybe using real 911 audio, and then provide of how best to answer those questions. Like a series of role-playing videos that demonstrate good responses to LEOs on the scene, as well as the not-so-good. Love the invaluable content you're providing.
As a retired Police Officer I have to say that you are spot on in this video. You are so right about not stating the amount of rounds that was discharged from your fire arm. Many times you believed that you discharged X amount of rounds and other details of the scene only to discover later that you were wrong. Yes your mind will play tricks on you when you are in the shit when things are getting bad, so try your best to keep your cool. Thank you for giving top notch advice that will save someone from getting jammed up by the law. I love this channel !!!
Welcome to the rest of the world, where you can't even use any weapon to defend yourself! Too bad criminals are already criminals and they don't care! xD
Agreed. Sadly, I had to. I had a strange random woman approach my car and block my way out after I told her twice to leave me alone. She threatened and harassed me and I couldn't think clearly enough to leave soon enough before she had lied to the police and successfully had me blamed for her crimes.
Simplification: Anything you say can later be used against you so use your head and simplified , basic descriptions of what happened. Based on +22 years as a Sheriff’s Investigator. After that, when LE have arrived, ask for an attorney based on your feelings of being overwhelmed and maybe being in shock.
Don’t let them BS you with, do you think you need a attorney,as if you did something wrong. (I’m in shock I will let you know when I able to talk.) Anytime they want you to talk they are gathering evidence, if you don’t say anything you don’t have to remember anything, I was afraid for my life.
It doesn’t matter whether your statements are excited utterances or not. Anything you say can be used against you as an admission by a party opponent or to show motive or under other rules.
@@nancythane4104 Well we keep hearing this but I'd like to know how, for instance, I say "My nose itches", is going to be used against me. I always hear the "it WILL be used against you" and always think about the poor logic but then I think about slimey prosecutors etc and realize that the real miranda warning should say "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be distorted by a slimey son of a bitch prosecutor to put you behind bars so his prosecution stats help him get a bonus or higher position". Now that was one run-on sentence.
@@NickFrom1228 "In those moments was he racked by guilt, filled with concern, in fear of his own safety? What was on his mind as a man lied bleeding to death on the ground? 'My nose itches.'" Now it won't literally ALWAYS be used against you but the point is if it's used at all it will be used against you because the rule is statements AGAINST INTEREST by the defendant are not hearsay, when your words would help you they are inadmissable.
As someone else mentioned, it really is a sad state of affairs that potential survivors of a self-defense situation have to be careful in the aftermath to not make themselves look like suspects.
Cops tell each other and all their relatives to not say anything after a defensive shooting. They say don't talk to the police, beyond the absolute basics. I have been in a room where a top lieutenant in a major US city's police dept said they tell their own cops to not talk for 72 hours. If the cops ask what happened, they are trained to say "I am too shook up to talk right now." they know why - you are not likely to help yourself. After 72 hours you talk, through your attorney
My partner was involved in a OIS. He was smart. He called his attorney shortly after. The attorney made the scene before the chief did. The attorney instructed the officer to turn off the bwc and remove and ICV. The attorney also said that she old consult with him after three days. The chief concured. It was also in our policy. It's typically SOP in every department that I know of. Maybe not all but most.
@@bryanwells1051 I have no idea where you are but that is a bunch of bs. An attorney can’t tell an officer what to do with police issued equipment which is now evidence. Seriously where is this ?
Great video. Spot on. In my classes they only added: when the police arrive, every word you say will cost you $1000 for your lawyer to fix. You will not be OK. Nothing good happens to you after you pull the trigger. Ask to go to the hospital and speak to your lawyer before making a statement. And last: Your current statement is not going to be compared to your scene-statement... it's being compared to the LEOs memory of what you said in the first statement. There is a difference. Again, good job!
Conceal carry class I took was awesome…. I’m realizing more and more how much they were able to teach us effectively. They taught us (reiterated several times) to not go into detail if we had to pull or fire our conceal carry that the MOST important thing was to say “I feared for my life” and ask to talk to your lawyer before you make any statements. They also mentioned about people hardly EVER get the details correct.
What I was told is that if you have to defend yourself don't talk to the cops (that includes the 911 operator). This is a highly emotional adrenaline filled event & you'll get details wrong & have to correct yourself later. That will be used against you. Law enforcement is looking for a reason to charge you as a well. Give a basic broad statement. "He was going to kill me I had to defend myself." Nothing more. Then ask for a lawyer and say nothing until you are in private with the lawyer. In the interrogation room at the station you are being recorded so that is not a safe place to talk with your lawyer. A conversation with a lawyer is supposed to not be listened in to by law enforcement. But the equipment is there and do you really want to trust them not to use it?
I highly doubt a Police Dept. would listen to you and your lawyer talking, that lawyer would sue the shit out of them, not to mention in would never be admitted as evidence in a court of law, now if your dumb enough to talk to LE in a room, then yes you are being recorded.
Thank you for addressing a relevant issue. In my conceal carry class there was a rep from USCCA and a USCCA attorney. The best advice they gave us that once we were safe to follow the instructions step by step on the back of the USCCA membership card. Almost everything you said lined up perfectly with those instructions and that is no surprise in light of your affiliation with that entity.
@monroe fisher This is what it says on the back of my card: Post-Incident Instructions 1. Call 911 Explain: "I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself." Request: "Please send BOTH police and an ambulance to this location." 2. Call the Critical Response Team: (USCCA Critical Response Phone number) Press * for immediate assistance. 3. When Responding Officers Arrive Comply: Follow all police instructions. Medical: Request medical attention, if necessary. Silence: "I will cooperate 100 percent, but first I need my attorney." (Do not talk further without your lawyer present.)
I've learned the best way to deal with cops is to stay as far away from them as possible, never catch their attention, and never call them unless you ABSOLUTELY have to.
Yall are letting fear rule your life. Myself, my friends, coworkers (assorted races have you, black, white, asian, mexican) all have had run ins with police, multiple times and none of us have had negative experiences, unless you count getting a speeding ticket which is just a consequence of your own actions.
I've actually never had any one address this specific issue with me before. I've heard about what to do if you're pulled over or if the police show up at your house, but what to say or not say to a 911 operator has never been directly addressed for me. These days this advice is so relevant and a genuine concern. Thanks for a such an informative video. I'll pass it on to my friends and family.
To answer your question about what we were taught in our concealed carry training, the police officer who taught my class, as a side job, said that we should tell the responding officer(s) that we need to go to the emergency room to be checked out... even if we were okay physically. The reason for that is that it would give us at least 30 minutes to get our minds right and that the police could not question us during an exam. I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically what he told us, if I recall correctly. I am cursed with being brutally honest and open -- but I know enough not to talk to police after a self-defense shooting, at least not beyond the basics. I know how I am, and I know I am going to need some time to get my thoughts. I also know enough to get a lawyer before I have any conversations with police.
Having a break to get your thoughts together isn’t the only reason you should go to the hospital. During an adrenaline dump, you may have wounds or injuries that you do not know about. You want to get checked for anything you may not be aware of. This includes blood testing for any negative effects of the adrenaline dump itself, especially for people with heart conditions. You shouldn’t be talking to anyone until you have a discussion with your lawyer regardless of how long it is.
I as a former police officer wish you would go into examples of real life incidents in detail and explain what happened and what the person did right and what they did wrong.
That would be interesting, but I totally understand his suggestions and why. You just potentially killed someone in response to a deadly attack. The stress and biochemical reaction will leave you not thinking clearly enough to answer detailed questions if you remember incorrectly you destroy your credibility and just put yourself in the hot seat with a murder charge. I think people need to understand the necessity of an investigation during any shooting situation. It’s entirely possible for someone to commit murder and try to make themselves out to be a victim. It’s quite important to catch that sort of activity if that is indeed the case and no outsider knows what happened without a complete investigation
Problem with that is it doesn't matter what you do. What matters is where you are, and who you are. Even a congressman's own kid was victim of railroading in Atlanta. obviously not a democrats kid. Since he kicked the gun away from the thug after tackling him during the armed robbery attempt, cops said he touched it last, so he was in possession of the illegal firearm. Not the crook who brought it, and was using it to rob them.
I continue to maintain that the absolute FIRST thing to do, BEFORE you call 911, after an incident is: RELOAD! You, as you stated, have no idea to the extent of the Threat.
I heard basically the same advice as you provided with the edition of "I acted in self-defense, but beyond that I want to consulted an attorney before making any further statements, and I would like to be checked out at a hospital." When at the hospital let the physician know that you feel like you're under more stress than you've ever been in your life, and reiterate that you want to speak to an attorney before making any further statements.
As a 16 year veteran 911 dispatcher (now retired), let me add some more information, some from the _dispatcher’s_ perspective: - Every phone call, even me calling home, is recorded, as well as every radio channel. I have made hundreds of tapes of both incoming calls and radio traffic related to calls. The recordings only contain calls and radio related to the specific incident and will always have both. What a caller says, what questions are asked and what instructions are given by the dispatcher, what is told the officers via phone/radio, what the officers say to each other via radio, what the officers tell the dispatcher via phone/radio. Also the CAD (computer aided dispatch) “card” contents are printed. These contain every note a dispatcher makes, notes officers make on their MDTs, and most have integrated records management so suspect, victim, witness, vehicle, and many other items are included. All of this is admissible in court! - Never be untruthful in your statements. You may be vague but be honest. It is better to not make a statement than to give wrong, incorrect, or false information. Be prepared to be placed into custody. - My advice to anyone in one of my firearms classes is to make sure the dispatcher knows that you were in fear of serious bodily injury or death and because of this you defended yourself (or other person if appropriate). It is not wise to flat out say you won’t answer any questions or make any statements without your attorney. Instead, tell dispatchers pertinent information, tell officers that you want to fully cooperate but you are not feeling well and need to go to the hospital. Officers will be interrogating you and you will be read your Miranda rights. You have the right to remain silent and is is good to do so! Ask to have an attorney present when being questioned. - Dispatchers are trained to keep callers on the line until officers are in contact (in the case of a victim or party to the incident) or officers are on scene. If it is a witness that can see what the officers are doing, I have kept them on the line so they can tell me what is happening with the officers and their interactions (this is more for officer safety and the ability to react quicker as things happen). That being said, if the caller does not feel safe, then that is my primary concern. Never would I keep a witness on the phone if it would place them in any danger - I would get pertinent information and let them go if that was appropriate. - It is good, but not necessary, to be the first caller in a shooting incident. - I have been a certified firearms instructor for many years and have held a concealed carry license even longer. I even did LEO training and took dispatchers to the range. Because I carry, my questioning of a caller was _always_ designed to determine if a shooting incident was a self defense situation. Wording of my questions was purposefully designed to clarify the situation. Properly trained dispatchers will do the same. I always ask if the caller is safe, and why or why not. I always get a name, age, and full description of my caller. There are so many different scenarios it is hard to describe, but if the caller is using a weapon to keep control of a suspect, I make sure that the dispatchers and officers are aware of this. If the caller feels unsafe, I would ask them to use the speakerphone function and put the phone down or even in a shirt pocket. If I need to give instructions, and many times I do, the caller can hear me still. - The dispatcher won’t (or should not) be asking how many times someone shot their firearm. That is _not_ pertinent to the response of the police and other first responders, like EMS. I want to know about suspect(s), their description(s), what transpired and led up to the shooting. How many suspects? Are they still there? Are they associated with a vehicle? Is it there? Which way did it go? Is the caller injured? Who else is injured? Where are the gunshot wounds? These are the important things that responders need to know. Also will determine to some degree what the response will look like. - The caller’s demeanor means nothing to me. People completely freak out over barking dogs and call 911. Calls have come in on non-emergency lines with completely calm callers who just stabbed their spouse. Unless you’ve been there, you wouldn’t believe what comes in! I have taken the stand in court as a witness to the prosecution and as a witness to the defense based on me being the dispatcher who handled a shooting call. Lawyers sometimes ask the stupidest questions, such as “did the caller sound overly excited or overly calm?” My testimony always came back to the same thing: you can’t read anything into the demeanor of a caller. But I have been asked other things, such as why I asked (or didn’t ask) certain questions. Why I put certain information (or omitted information) from a card. Or simply, “was this you that answered this call?” I would always listen to the tape and look over the card printout before taking the stand, sometimes it would be several months after the incident happened and I wouldn’t remember any of the details. One case the defendant accidentally shot someone and because of the phone call he was convicted of a lesser charge than the original charges. Sorry for this big long post, but I wanted to make sure that everyone understands that the dispatcher can, if doing their job properly, be a big asset for you!
That is very interesting, nice advice, so if your involved in a home self defense case, call your neighbor and ask them to call 911, tell your neighbor shots have been fired was in fear for my life, please send EMS. That is damm good brilliant post you made.
yes and no. is it someone you know and trust to keep it to a minimum? what if it's a bad or non-witness and he says "two people were fighting and one got shot" instead of "robber pulled gun and got shot"?
As soon as you call 911, assume you are being recorded. While the phone is ringing, before the operator answers, the recording has started. Do not say anything that might be used against you later.
For those of you who do not know. The 911 system is set up to start recording before the 911 operator answers the phone. Once the phone has begun ringing, assume you are being recorded.
US lawshield tells us to give them the relevant information then hang up and don’t answer when they call back. It’s also important to know that when you call 911 it is recording while ringing before anyone picks up the phone.
Tom, your videos are of unsurpassed excellence on the full range of topics that you address, tactical matters, ATF, the interview with Sheriff Waak. For the record, I say so having taken, so far, more than1,000 hours of private training on pistol, carbine and shotgun, and POST use of force and firearms certification as an armed EMT on a sheriff's posse. All that and periodic audits of CCW classes. Outstanding videos, Tom. TY
Thanks James! I have 12 videos unreleased on RUclips just queued up to go, another 4 in post production at the moment and pages of ideas. Thanks for joining me on the ride.
The world is turning quickly into this other world where wrong is right and right is now wrong. It's getting very hard for the law abiding Man to stay out of jail and the courtroom. Keep up the great work, helping us do just that.
Regardless if you believe in the Bible or not, there's a scripture which predicts this very act that we're seeing right now. I'm a believer myself, and this is most certainly not a coincidence. The scripture states that at some point wrong will be called right, and right will be called wrong
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Imagine the horror of having a criminal attack you, but then you get arrested because you were defending yourself. Then you go to jail. Then you try to find a lawyer while in jail. Days pass. You finally get bonded out (maybe!!). Now you get to spend thousands on a criminal defense that you were the victim for. Maybe just bury the body & forget about it instead of calling 911.
As someone who is both military and LEO trained in the use of firearms and hands self defense use of force, I, as a currently working Detention Officer, after having been in a hands on use of force situation, I've always put in my reports ... "Due to my fear for my life" " I use that force that I believed was reasonable, necessary and legal."
Thank you for the information. We are in troubled times where the criminals are the ones protected. It goes back to the 60s and 70s when prosecutors told rape victims you shouldn't have dressed like that.
In schools retaliation is punished more than the aggressor by design to make the kids grow up okay with people walking all over them. If you put your kid in public school you are sending them to he trained not to speak out against wrong doings or speak up for themselves.
I got similar advice from a relative that was a cop. She told me to make sure I was in fear for my life and even if I was impressed with my shot, not to talk about it. She told me of instances she had encountered where the shooter was stoked about that headshot and excitedly told responding officers about it. Those officers have to testify in court about what you said.
from of an objective matter..what does it matter though if a person is amped about it or not..if the situation was breaking and entering in the middle of the night..then what does it matter if the shooter was sad of happy..has nothing to do with the facts surrounding the case..
@@Spazzfrom.1989 if they are all jazzed about it, the prosecution will paint them as a dangerous person looking for an excuse to murder someone. Surely someone so well trained wouldn't need to kill in order to defend themselves. I understand the objective point, but we are human beings and not robots. We can be manipulated. Under such circumstances, the facts aren't different, but how they might be interpreted is.
yeah..im just trying to be normal and think on the facts..people shouldnt make decisions on emotions..not on this..i mean heck they have weeks as a jurror to let those emotions slide off..so youd hope!@@thatslumlordlife
Remember the officers are Not your friends. The police are allowed to lie per SCOTUS. Interrogation rooms are small and made to make you feel uncomfortable. Don't say anything during Interrogation until you have a lawyer. Make sure it is recorded. Great video
Thanks for this video! It is so important to never talk without a lawyer present! I once fell for the trap, " if you scratch our back we'll scratch yours" A person can not undo a statement! I promise you, you best welfare is not their concern by far! They will mislead, and flat out lie, to get a confession!
I was taught to say: “there has been a shooting, my weapon is secure.” The comment section has a lot of great info in addition to the vid. Thank you for this
In addition: Don't add anything other than the condition and location of the perpetrator. Do not say how or why anything happened. The 5th is not just for criminals. Clearly and explicitly state that you are invoking your rights under the 5th. Repeat this each time someone TRIES to ask you questions. They may later use any answers you give as a sign that you have "waived" your 5th amendment rights.
Situational awareness is key to your safety... and when you feel like someone is following you let them know you know by looking at them without stopping they just lost their advantage
Thank you Mr. Grieve. Your advice has been invaluable in all of your videos. Having both a prosecution and a defense background in law representation, plus being pro-2nd amendment, means a great deal to a citizen like myself that believes in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Thank you again.
"interesting?" How many innocent people did you jail? How often did you violate the Constitution (state or US)? Mindless thug. "I was just doing my job." F.O.
Great advice. In having to call 911 for Police response and Medical this year ( Oregon) I've noticed a significant problem with several 911 Operators communication skills. Some we encountered had no business being a Emergency Services Operator, as they were argumentative, asked the same question over and over again after getting a clear, concise response. Some operators were great, calm, professional and to the point. I don't know who or what the criteria is lately for 911 operators, but be aware many are head cases, we have discovered.
Most of them learn on the job and have had no communications experience previously. I would prefer that they would hire military veterans I know how to properly talk on the radio.
I was told the exact thing you are talking about in my conceal carry class. They had an attorney that was a conceal carry attorney. It’s been 10 years and I still have his card in my wallet ❤
"Someone's been shot. Send EMS to such and such location" Hang up ! Secure your weapon. When law enforcement arrive, identify yourself. When the questions start, your only reply should be that you're feeling ill and need medical attention. Not another word should be spoken until having legal counsel.
Its sad that in this country "innocent until proven guilty" applies more so to the criminal than the poor victim who has to show beyond shadow of doubt that their life was in actual danger.
I pray to God i am never in a situation where i have to use my firearm to stop a serious threat, but if i ever happen to find myself in this curse, This advice is pretty solid. Keep your conversation to a minimum, control your emotions as best you can, and request an ambulance to buy time to speak with your attorney BEFORE investigating officials. ALWAYS try to de-escalate and retreat first if possible.
The fact that a law abiding citizen has to even defend themselves against the law even when its clear as day that someone threatened your life is fking disgusting.
This is great advice. Too often the good guy attacked government. Granted, I'm working from information I've gathered from the news... whose purpose is to sell corn flakes. I had an experience with a guy trying to run me off a county road and when the cops got there we wrote our statements. My account was 2 paragraphs, bad guy's was 2 pages. The officer questioned the integrity of my statement due to its brevity. I wouldn't budge for the sake of the officer, and the guy that ran into me was sighted.
Never called anyone, never will, I don't have to live in fear, and if anyone is dumb enough to attempt anything with me, they already made their choice, "when the government fails at its job, I won't fail at mine" - Very smart man
Agreed. The time to develop a mindset for not only addressing the 911 operator but addressing a deadly force incident is BEFORE you have one. Once you're certain that the fighting is over [ don't take that for granted ], make the call. Be assertive, tell the operator to listen. Be brief. Give location, that a violent crime took place and shots were fired, you need police and fire rescue. If suspects fled, give a description and direction of travel. I would stop right there. Operator will ask all kinds of questions, only repeat what you said before. I have years of practice in relaying information as a paramedic, but have never been involved in a shooting. It's hard to gather your thoughts, you have to practice this. You definitely want to make the call, juries don't understand why a victim wouldn't. But be brief and to the point. You'll have to give a little more to responding officers, but keep it brief,
Nope. The only things you have to give responding officers at the scene is your name and address, your carry permit (if applicable), and your gun , if you fired it. If you didn't fire it, but they want it anyway, let them have it. No sense in being argumentative. Better to give it up there than to give them ammunition for a search warrant for your entire house. You don't need to give them anything else unless you and your attorney agree it would be in your best interest. That means politely decline to speak at the scene. All you have to tell 911 is that there has been a shooting at the corner of Smith and Jones, and that the police and an ambulance are needed there in a hurry. If suspect(s) fled, describe them and any weapons you might have seen. Then hang up. As a retired cop, I take that part where they tell you "anything you say can and WILL be used against you in a court of law" very seriously. Right there, you are being told that Officer Friendly is NOT your friend.
@@bryansimmons4550 I can't argue with that, but at the same time I want to establish the narrative. What happened, who initiated the conflict, and why I used force. I'm not intimidated by dispatchers and responding officers. Others may want to remain silent until they can get legal advice.
Excellent topic Tom.. The instructor I had way back when told us if possible have someone call before there are any shots fired and let the operator know that someone has broken into the house. While you (I) am getting in a defensive position not advancing or sweeping the house. Also to tell the operator that I (the homeowner) am armed so that they may alert the officers. Stay on the phone and only say "Please Hurry"
I work security and I have been doing this line of work since 1992 and when I was taking my first classes in 1992 we had police officers a judge and I think an attorney showed up and they all talk to us and there wasn't all at one time. This was periodically through the several months that we were in class and they all said very similar things you mentioned don't be messing with her brass and things like this. This is also not a time when you go collect your spent magazine's what I was told by all of them. The whole class was told this you empty your magazine. You throw it on the ground and you walk away from it. It is lost. It is gone. You cannot go back to get it. They said one exception was if the scene is still active and you're going back to retrieve your magazine because you may have ammunition in it. They said that would be okay but once everything's over with and it's done you can't go back to collect your magazines or speed loaders or whatever else that was part of what was going on. Nobody talks about this the scene after a shooting not to go mess with anything not to go pick up stuff. A few people have said pay attention to things. Don't let people come up and start messing with it because key evidence has a way of walking off like the aggressors firearm will walk off because his buddy took it or somebody else on the street picked it up. Wanting it as a souvenir or free or wanting to protect the guy or her or whatever and pay attention to where your brass is because the evidence eradication team will show up. That's your fire department and EMS I wish somebody would talk about in detail what to do about where you're at after it's over with the police are on their way. What you should be doing. I know a few people have talked about this but I wish more would talk about this, especially attorneys. Things like this because that's crucial. I wouldn't know this if it hadn't been for the fact that I had police officers, a judge and an attorney that showed up in my class and talked about this part of the class I had was seen preservation things like don't let the janitor mop up the blood things like that. If you get a chance I would really be interested in seeing something you do on what we should do in preserving the area for the investigation that's going to be coming and getting the information we need to give to our attorneys because I I've only seen one or two people talk about this
I've never heard the "empty the magazine" narrative before. I've been through the Police Academy & I'm in the field. Of what importance could you possibly think that serves? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING can be gleaned from you having done this. I've heard people say that it proves you were scared for your life. I've seen that totally backfire when a video pops up of you shooting a downed attacker 10 extra times once he's been downed after 3 shots. What are you going to do fire the other 12 shots into the air or whatever? That's horribly bad advice imo. You shoot until you stop the threat. You stopped when the threat was over. That's EXACTLY what you should say happened & nothing else. Well that's what your attorney should be saying, you should be saying "I think I need an attorney just to be careful".
As long as you are safe, I would think it's a good idea to use your phone & take pics of the scene from where you are standing. Shoot completely around yourself 360° and be sure to capture everything you can, both longshot and close up. Color me paranoid, but make sure to send copies those images to your lawyer/trusted family member before handing your phone to the cops. What are our rights on giving up our phones to the police, anyhow?
Good points you are making as not every defensive shooting takes place in a home burglary or invasion. The store owner who shoots an armed robber is the more likely scenario.
As a police officer I always tell people to arm themselves and protect their families in whatever way they can. I spoke to a guy once who was a convicted felon who could not possess guns legally and he and his family were in danger from his old gang because they accused him of snitching, I told him that I can’t give him legal advice but that if it were me, my family’s safety would be prioritized over following the law. It’s just unfortunate that someone can be charged when acting in self defense. Even if you beat it, the family of the POS can still sue you civilly and try to ruin your life financially.
That is why you make sure there is only one story and do not answer any questions for an emergency call dispatcher who will relay that information to the police who can and will use it against you. This should be common knowledge, it is in our bill of rights after all.
This is why I don’t think felons should be barred from owning guns, because obviously if you come from a dangerous world you run into dangerous characters. As for voting maybe their vote shouldn’t be totally removed but just restricted, and then they should be able to prove they’ve learned something (if they have) in order to get the restriction taken off.
@@SupHapCak I think once a person is off of papers they should have their rights restored. I personally have a feeling it's not an accident thst so many people get locked up and then they can't own guns or vote because of their background. Seems like a good way of marginalizing people.
Tell them you need police at your location. Period. When the cops show up tell them your name. Period. If they ask you anything else tell them you want a lawyer before you answer any questions. Period.
I like this comment. As a US Supreme Court justice has stated, "Do not talk to the police. It can't help you." I have heard that at least one federal judge has ruled that you must specifically state that you are invoking your fifth amendment right to remain silent, otherwise it does not apply. I have rehearsed in my mind that I would say, "On advice of counsel, I am invoking my fifth amendment right to remain silent. I do not consent to any searches or seizures. I want my attorney present during any and all questioning." The police must investigate if they think a crime has been committed. I don't have to cooperate with their investigation.
"Dispatch 10-59, refused caller is adv they need police at this 10-20. Unk situation. They're refusing to provide any further information." Is a great way to have officers arrive on scene knowing you're the victim.
I go by what I was taught at Front Sight and you just about parallel that instruction. You're a great speaker and easy to listen to. Thanks for the video.
So become immediately involved in criminal activity. What is the difference between you and your attacker. You have the same criminal personality and mind set as they do.
I was told "Shut up, don't make a statement, just say you're not in a mental state to make an official statement yet. Shock, and adrenaline, let your lawyer talk for you"
So the advice boils down to "stay aware of your surroundings", "treat the area as still hostile", "don't sweat the details", and "It's alright to put the phone down".
Tom, Thank you so much for what you do. I agree with this video 100%. I was taught to also say this to avoid questions, " I was just involved in a life threatening situation, I would like to go to the hospital and be checked out by a doctor" this limits what you will be asked, and also gives you time to calm down and think. Hope that helps someone. I would like to see you do a video on.. You've been in a life threatening situation and were injured. The ambulance is going to take you to a hospital. What do I do with my gun? Thank you again
Just came across your video, thank you for the useful information. In my CCP class we were told to tell the 911 operators that you shot someone in self defense because you were in fear of your life and to send the police to your location, then hang up. It's sad that when you have to defend yourself, you have to be careful because they may want to prosecute you.
First thing they ask is address of the emergency give the address and say "someone has been shot send an ambulance." Hang up. Better to tell someone else to call 911 if anyone is there to do it. When police arrive say nothing other than. "I want an attorney to be present for any questions." "I am invoking my right to remain silent." No sensible attorney will have you say anything else.
If the incident is causing you health issues like chest pains, tell the responding officers. They have to take you straight to a hospital emergency room, not the police station.
I was told NOT to give a description of myself to 911. The operator, OR the officers could misinterpret that description as being for the perp. And think you're the bad guy when they show up. I was also told that if possible and the scene is clear, to NOT have your weapon out. Remember, they're answering a call to a shooting. If they're really amped up when they get there, you may or may not have time to comprehend the warning to drop the gun, before more lead starts to fly.
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Attorneys
Imagine having to defend yourself against someone threatening your life and then against a state prosecutor.
Welcome to my day. I like the image+name!
@@AttyTomGrieve Peace of Christ to you.
“Shoot, shovel, and shush!”
@princessmarlena1359 it's all fun and games until the person's family reports them missing and their last cell tower hit was tour property.
@@FighteroftheNightman That's why you move the body or rather any electronic device on them around. Lots of murders go unsolved as is.
It's just a sick and sad world where you need to know how to stay out of prison after having defended yourself and/or your love ones from criminals.
That's why I fly the Bonnie Blue Flag of Independence and the Stars and Bars Flag of Liberty . Because after many cowardly uncivilized attacks and robberies by thugs of the Union I am strongly opposed to the enemy tyranny of the Union (USA) and I won't allow the Stars and Stripes rag of tyranny and robbery on my property.
Replace "World" with country. Imagine living is a country that is described by THIS video.
It's the political climate were in. Law and order is vilified and criminals are protected. We have a sick society!
@@brackets6127 every single first world country
Welcome to America. Land of the fee and home of the slave.
I've been fighting a self defense case for over a year now. Seems to me like they don't want you to defend yourself, and they enjoy letting the criminals get away
What charges are they trying to give you.
@@PAULYHOTDOGSS they're trying to charge me with brandishing a weapon, when I only brought out a weapon after the attack had already begun. Neither me or the other person pressed charges, and so I guess the police just wanted to get somebody for something
@@justinAclark2075 how did the police find out about the incident? Witnesses? I’m curious what prompted them to the situation
there are a lot of places that clearly DO NOT want you defending yourself in any way. i can think of no other reason why someone would ban body armour and mace. not to mention california recently bringing up (i don't know if it passed) a law making it a CRIME to stop someone who is stealing from you. at that point the criminals are running the prison.
@@tuseroni6085 Jesus, a crime to stop a thief? I'm in Cali, and smack dab in the middle of a weird place where the demographics are split, almost poetically. We've got 6 cities next to each other, all connected, and each one is more and more ghetto as you go further north. And it's absolutely astonishing to see the differences in police response, as well as their attitudes and all that. So stuff like what you're saying is a huge red flag for me lol. I live in the perfect place to get screwed over by both extremes of the demographics.
What first popped into my head is “NEVER MISS AN OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT”
Rule #23
What you say is what gets you a jail cell, 10x's more
often that what you don't. I've heard this from
other Attorneys.
Oh my gosh my dad used to say that quote! you just reminded me. Thanks
He would say "never miss an opportunity to,#1 use the restroom,#2 bring a jacket,#3 keep your mouth shut! ( In other words don't offer information)
Massad Ayoob says you should talk to cops after a defensive shooting and try to convince them that you're an innocent victim.
It's sad that you have to defend yourself twice in our system. First from the attacker, then from the attorneys
My best defense is, "I don't actually know what is going on. I'm insane."
They've unleashed Tyrones on society! They have NO accountability!
At least we get to defend ourselves though
@@carriethompson84 For now.
It is sad. Also, nice username!!!
This is good advice. Someone local shot someone after they broke into their house and the perpetrator was carrying a loaded firearm. The court system tried their hardest to put the victim in jail, even with every scrap of evidence showing he was defending himself. We live in a messed up world.
The midwest states, North and South Dakota, whyoming, montana are some of the best states as far as self defense shootings. Most red states are much better than those controlled by democrats .
The prosecutor and DA need to win cases to get promotions… that’s all they care about. It’s not personal…May the best argument win. It’s not even about justice anymore. Our world lacks ethics and values and morals.
Not "messed up world". Just specific countries. Some countries dont have this problem.
@@eternity2444
It's not personal when your a** is sitting in jail for 25 years believe me, it's personal.@@mtc-j9i
If criminals would be this harshly prosecuted as their victims, that would be nice.
Not only nice, but a lot less crime!
@@Bob_Adkins Das raycist
Our judicial system has become pro criminals.
Not in obama/Bribed-en's brave new communist world now known as AmeriKa.
("K" for Kenyan export)
I know so many laws that protect criminals, and give them very low punishments, and I'm talking about the most evil crimes too!
A police officer once told me to tell the cops, "Tell them you're under duress and you'll cooperate once you have an attorney present." I've also heard lawyers say, "Wait until you've had at least 2 full nights of good sleep and then you will answer questions with your attorney present." The justice system is a damn joke! Never talk to the police without an attorney.
As a retired cop: Don't tell them you're under "duress". It sounds dramatic and emotional. Just say you need to speak with an attorney before questioning. Don't give reasons. They are neither necessary or required. By law, no questioning can continue while the elements of custody and interrogation are met. If they explain that you are not in custody and can ask you anything they want (which is true), still don't answer. If you are not in custody than you can at least immediately call a lawyer. If one's not available, do not open your mouth.
If you just shot someone the cops aren't going to wait around for 2 days before they question you. Which is sad bc they're afforded 2 nights of sleep when they shoot someone
@@grendul4497 I have to wonder if the claim "I was in fear for my life" is heard by cops and prosecutors as another supposedly get out of trouble free card in the same way as "I cant breathe" is.
@@FighteroftheNightman Not true. And not only that, cops don't have the right to remain silent. It's amazing that you can just make stuff up and pawn it off as fact somehow.
@@FighteroftheNightman Cops don't have the right to remain silent concerning actions that happen during the line of duty. For the cops wanting to question you, that is why you always get transported to a hospital after a self-defense situation. The cops HAVE to let you go get checked out, and that is the time that you use to enforce that you won't answer questions without a lawyer present. You then simply tell your lawyer to give you a couple days to sleep it off before making their appearance for your interrogation. Cops MUST immediately stop asking questions if you are in their custody and are attempting to ask them when you demand a lawyer. If you aren't in custody, thus they can still technically keep asking questions and talking? Leave, make them do so if you are in the hospital and can't leave.
If you are in custody and demand your lawyer in questioning, cops MUST immediately shut up and wait for a lawyer to be present before continuing. If you demand your lawyer but they still say ANYTHING, whatever is said after the demand for a lawyer is inadmissible due to civil rights.
1. Call 911
2. Explain: “I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself”.
3. Request: “Please send both police and an ambulance to this location”
When responding officers arrive:
4. Comply: Follow all police instructions
5. Medical: Request medical attention, if necessary.
6. Silence: “I will cooperate 100 percent, but first I need my attorney”
( Do not talk further without your lawyer present).
# 5 DON'T REQUEST ! Medical Attention ,DEMAND TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL !
@@michaelkraus4135CAPITAL LETTERS.
PERFECT ADVISE!!!!!
❤ from California
It's a sad day for our country when people need to learn to defend themselves against both criminals AND lawyers.
Funny enough, sometimes they are the same people these days. Like those lawyers that went around with the protests molotoving police cars and handing them out to random people, basically distributing deadly weapons.
What's the difference?
Thank your democrats 🙄
& our Government
It’s been that way for decades buddy.
I’m a retired police officer and this info is correct!! It’s sad that a law abiding citizen is prosecuted for self defense!
@SideBit that's quite a stretch
@@SideBit What you're talking about isn't excessive force, it's unlawful use of force. While prosecution has it's place it should only be used when the police have determined that a law has clearly been broken and in regard to the intent of law. Excessive force itself isn't a justification for civilian prosecution. When a gun is used on someone it's "deadly force" whether you shoot once or ten times, and deadly force needs to be used justifiably either way. However, this video is about self defense yet you are looking hard to turn law abiding citizens into criminals rather than accepting that it's criminal behavior that's the problem, not the "excessive force" that can result from criminal behavior.
Retired? Or fired? You seem pretty ignorant about the law.
Of course its not "sad". Someone still commits a crime or a murder or whatever no matter how much self defense it was ...
Than why dont u cops get together and help the citizens out, for a change?! Rather than mindlessly obeying beurocrats.....than whining about "I'm just doing my job!"
..
But u pigs will never do that, will u 👎👎👎
It's a disgrace a victim in a high stress situation must remember a checklist in their head to not get wrongly accused of something. Our system is absurd.
It’s mostly because of corruption.
The system works when the system actually works.
Right now people in the system refuse to let it work and have bogged it down with billions of unreadable and unnecessary laws.
How hard is STFU to remember? Even in self defense mode where I use muscle memory only, I can remember that. Can't speak if I wanted to, but I know not to.
It takes me 72 hours to regain motor control over my muscle memory. Cop shows up pulling a gun and yelling he won't live long before that, I have no control over my trigger finger stopping the threat. At 72 hrs, my hand still goes for the gun, but I can stop it.
Agreed. I'm a survivor of the broken system.
911 call “Ive been attacked the perpetrator has been shot.” PERIOD. Police arrive. “‘I will cooperate with your investigation after I have conferred with my attorney”. PERIOD That’s what a very experienced defense attorney advised.
Your very experienced defense attorney should have told you to never talk to the police directly. That is his job. In fact you are under no obligation to even talk to your own attorney, however to get the case resolved faster it would behoove you to assist your attorney by answering his questions and letting him relay your answers to the police. Mind you the police will try very hard to force you to talk to them, but again that is what your Fifth amendment right covers !
Well said! Love that.
Basically your 5th and 6th amendment rights, bingo! Keeping all silence is not a good way, may confuse the police on scene. So, ppl please just remember these two phrases, nothing more, nothing less. I know that's hard.
Bingo! This is what I remember hearing as well.
I would add that after you hang up with 911, you immediately get on the line with your ccw insurance provider so they can alert a defense attorney to your needs.
My father was a concealed carrier when I was very young. His one rule was it’s ok to be polite with officers but never answer any of their questions. It’s been pretty much ingrained into me I’m glad to say especially with how law abiding citizens are now being treated in our country.
Exactly. Be courteous, and let them know I need my attorney to be present. We'll get this sorted out.
*Surprisingly* a large number of police officers are evil and only care about meeting their ticket quotas. This means if grandma who was also a victim, shot a gun into the air for trying to scare away the criminals then those evil police officers will write up a ticket where the evil prosecuting attorney then brings her into court for being charged with a crime. There's a large number of police officers with no morals, no sympathy and only care about meeting their ticket quotas.
Be safe... when you see a police officer know that person might be an enemy only seeking to write up tickets on you.
I just hope this guy teaches me kung fu
@@davebritton7136 yeah
@@davebritton7136 You pick your attorney. So that is on you to figure that out.
As a current Dispatcher/911 operator, I can definitely say this is spot on. In the first place, when I get your 911 call that you had to defend yourself, I don't even NEED to know how many times you shot, at least not at first. I want to know that you're safe, and how many people were shot. I might need to ask where they were shot (ie, what part of the bod) and are they breathing, conscious etc. But don't tell me you fired "X number of shots". I want to know is the other person still armed. I want to know where your weapon is (because responding officers will want to know) and I will tell you to put the weapon down when the officers arrive. Basically, once I start asking questions, give me the straight-forward answers and DO NOT start volunteering tons of additional information.
Great reply. Thank you for doing a very tough job every day. You are the vital lifeline for officers AND citizens. God Bless and Protect you all.
Yeah volunteering information that wasn't asked is a good way to get yourself into a hole that's next to impossible to get out of. It happens more often than we think. I think humans are wired in such a way to feel like they have to explain almost everything or volunteer information that's not necessary, probably because oh we feel like this helps us look good or credible or oh we're honest we have nothing to hide honesty is the best policy. Unfortunately, it sounds good in theory and on paper, but in this world it gets you in trouble and you likely won't even know it.
This is good advice for blabber mouths in everyday interactions, some ppl are walking targets
Excellent. Thank You & Best Regards.
Well-said.......thanks for this info.
No lawyer has ever said "I wish my client gave the cops more information before talking to me"...
I think there was one
George Zimmerman’s lawyer. Zimmy never had to testify he’d already done it with the Sanford PD and it was videotaped
The one important fact that he failed to mention is never say I had to kill him, instead say I had to stop him. It's the difference between premeditated murder and self-defense with an aggressive prosecutor.
Just say "I was in fear for my life." and STFU
Gaia Miranda said, *_instead say I had to stop him_*
I would suggest not even saying anything like that. Officers, detectives, and attorneys will try to use anything you say to keep engaging you and the more you say, the more likely it is you WILL eventually say something that can be manipulated into something used against you by a prosecutor.
Even talking with others that are not law enforcement or attorneys (like an on-scene paramedic who is checking you over) can get you in deep trouble as anyone can be called as a witness, and they may remember very differently what you said to them.
Memory details are tricky things especially in dynamic environments with lots of things going on all at the same time.
@@exgenica - I strongly agree with everything you wrote. A person should always remember that nothing, absolutely nothing, you say to the cops will help your case. Respectfully decline to give a statement until after you've seen an attorney.
@@exgenica I had 80 hours of instruction and talked with 3 legal minds that were present there at time in and if for instance you happen to have a break-in at your house and somebody tries to kill you the one thing that you are within reasonable limits to say without harm to yourself is "I had to stop them". The alternative would be my death. They will put you on the stand at times and when they do you're going to have to explain yourself about why you fired a weapon that took their life eventually. And the answer is?
"I had to STOP them"
Gaia Miranda dude you should pay more attention to the stuff being taught instead of trying to point out something he missed or didn't do right cause in fact the 2nd bulletin board point that was in the first three minutes of the video he says be clear that you shot to stop the threat. Which is exactly what you're saying he failed to say which is entirely false. Most people are not going to say anything to you but I feel it needs to be addressed for you're sake and other's dumb enough to believe you're comment before getting to three minutes in the video to see for themselves and learn what he is teaching. Just think of how that makes you look and sound like a know it all who doesn't really know jack or doesn't pay enough attention because you don't take the time to listen before you speak or you're too busy pointing out others mistakes instead of focusing on you're self or better yet what others did right instead of wrong. Not trying to be a dick or be disrespectful to you either but yeah he didn't fail to mention that..
It is an absolute tragedy how law abiding citizens, who are forced to protect themselves, are prosecuted much more harshly and aggressively than ACTUAL criminals committing ACTUAL CRIMES!
Define ACTUAL.
@@MrDCMo Someone preforming a criminal act. Self-defense is not a criminal act. It means you were an intended victim
@@DetectivePlays0 If you're arrested and charged with a crime, then you probably ACTUALLY committed a ACTUAL criminal act, brainiac.
@@DetectivePlays0you don’t get prosecuted because you defended yourself in a self defense encounter. You get prosecuted because they don’t know if that’s what actually happened, and they have to determine which one of you is the criminal and if the reaction was justified and legal. It’s a game of ‘he said she said’, not ‘punish the good guy’.
Criminals run away. Ethical citizens stand and take the responsibility. Some in the justice system take advantage of that fact.
That deal with the Marine in the NY Subway recently shows that US law is skewed in favor of the criminal over the victim.
Depends heavily of whether the local DA leans red or blue.
DA's tend to lean "green" as in whoever pays more
Real evil looks like this spread like an invisible energy web as the what is seen becomes corrupt.
The problem with that one is that he went hands-on with someone who was acting erratic but was neither brandishing a weapon or physically threatening someone and then choked him to death. You don’t get away with killing someone having a mental episode if you are a civilian
Soros- controlled democrat city law, not US law.
Also keep in mind the 911 recording begins when the phone is ringing, not when the operator answers.
😮 fascinating! Thanks for the info!
Yep, I learnt that the hard way.
This is absolutely true.
how does this matter?
@@jeffthompson549if you’re in trouble and need help, you can begin speaking immediately. They’ll hear it.
I've been in a PD uniform since 1981, and I still am. I watch every episode of this lawyer. You are well advised to take his advice.
Semper Fi ✝️ 🇺🇸
Semper Fi brother
You need to tell them you need to go to the hospital if they arrest you. Gives you time to recover mentally and think of a battle plan forward
Also a BIG thing almost no-one knows… 911 calls are recording you the second you hear the ring well befofe they answer so dont say anything stupid!
You need to go to the hospital for much more imminent issues. In that kind of stressful situation, if you have any kind of heart issue at all, you could be stressed to the point your are going to have a heart attack. It may not happen for hours afterward. You need to get checked out asap. There is no battle plan determined at that point. The battle plan needs to be determined days/months/years before you encounter the situation. You just execute what you have determined is the best path long ago.
@@NickFrom1228 "It may not happen for hours afterward." That is VERY IMPORTANT but not apparent to almost everyone. Very important. I commend you for writing that.
Don't think of your battle plan. Tell them that you will answer no questions about your activities without an attorney present, and let the attorney think of the battle plan.
Great vid
I also recommend Massad Ayoob .
And STFU the police are not your friends at a shooting.
A great example of how the government isn't in it for your benefit, but for theirs.
I am 71 years old and a Vietnam Veteran. It's sad and very disturbing what America and Americans have become. Thank You for excellent advice, Best Regards
Unfortunately it has become the way it is because all the azz-wholes that protested the Vietnam war are the ones running the show now. Welcome home brother!
Thank you for your service and your role in protecting our freedom!
Thank you for your service. My father is also in Vietnam if you guys suffered enough there. It’s sad on the country that you signed to defend is literally putting us all out there to get harmed. And it’s purposeful that you have a blessed day and again, thank you for your service. I’m prior military as well, my heart goes out to all that are suffering under such a plan of destruction.
Again, thank you for your service your hero I’ll never forget that
@@AMVideos117 Good Day. I had thought that after Vietnam, America would move on to being a better country. "Lessons Learned". Sadly, the contrary is what has come to pass. I have never seen our country so divided and in such chaos. America just can't stay out of unnecessary wars and Politically, we are in the midst of another "Civil War", with no end in sight. It Has Become More Important To "WIN" then it is to "Be RIGHT"... Thanks and Best Regards
Nothing new it’s always been like that, it’s just information travels a lot quicker. Plus this is a land of lawyers and the almighty Dollar.
“If someone breaks into your house, make sure there’s only one story. Your story”.
G. Gordon Liddy
Yeah but now days it’s the families , ( friends, teachers and anyone who knew them ) of these criminals all come forward and tell all kinds of stories , to the gun hating biased media that make the criminal look like a saint, or just having a temporary issues. And they sue the person that needs to defend themselves by shooting the criminal .
And the press he,ps by digging into your life and basically putting you on trial before the real trial for anything in your life that makes you look like an irresponsible,violent ,gun loving psycho! Ex military then the press says , “ oh they were trained to kill”
You Regularly concealed carry ….the press says “ they always had a gun on them” implying you were just itching to use it .
And let’s not forget about digging up,any social media posts or photos you have ….. ore fodder for the isses media to make you look like a criminal and to further the Left’s narrative of “ we don’t need the Second Amendment, let’s get rid of it or neuter it so it exists on paper but because of so many restrictive gun control laws, no one canexersize their 2 A rights in reality, no matter what the circumstances are.
Yes, their not bring you free pizza, their bringing and your family pure HELL.
Stop a threat.
@@tedr.richardson4655 they're*
@@tedr.richardson4655 Not in my country tho ;-)
If I would even injure someone in my house - I will have a problem.
The biggest heartbreak of my adult life is the realization that our court system will do whatever it can to attack law-biding patriots who defend their lives and loved ones.
Thank you for posting this.
Very truthful!
It's an attack on Whites
Stop voting hypocrite judges lawmakers in. Stamp on the constitution.
Agreed. That mode of thinking by the justice system has a few names…woke, liberalism, progressiveness, idiocy, and stupidity.
Law abiding citizens have good nature and are willing to serve their community. Sadly, this sense of service can and will be used against them by law enforcement.
I'm a retired Deputy Sheriff. During my time in Law Enforcement the biggest threat to my personal safety and the main reason situations were eliminated were due to Horrible Dispatchers. I know there are some amazing ones out there but I never encountered one. You wouldn't believe the insane crap they caused. Lives have been lost because of their attitudes and egos. Kinda goes the same for the uniforms as well these days.
We need to better vet and train them all. And a Public Review Board is needed.
Thank you Sir for sharing this!
I'm a survivor of this. I had called 911 when a former house mate attacked and chased me down a hall over apple juice she thought I stole but she had given me. The police never showed up even though I vividly remember calling them and later I found out that there had been no record of my calling 911. So somehow my call had been lost to cyberspace and my former house mate could of ended me and probably gotten away with it all because I couldn't get police out to the house because dispatch somehow lost my call. It was very traumatic. Then that same lady tried to get me in jail in retaliation for my non criminal reaction to her abuse. She had a 6 year old who could not read a single word and mom would just stay in bed all day after partying all night. I only lived there 6 weeks but it felt like 6 years. I'm lucky to get out alive because the landlord sided with my attacker blaming everything on me.
Considering that most people don't routinely engage in armed self-defense, and lack the "muscle memory" for dealing with LEOs and the tactics they use, I think it would be really interesting to see a series of videos that detail some of the ways 911 operators and police on the scene try to get you provide details, maybe using real 911 audio, and then provide of how best to answer those questions. Like a series of role-playing videos that demonstrate good responses to LEOs on the scene, as well as the not-so-good.
Love the invaluable content you're providing.
gREAT iDEA! SEND IT to someone you feel could do a great job doing this!
Yea i love roleplay
As a retired Police Officer I have to say that you are spot on in this video. You are so right about not stating the amount of rounds that was discharged from your fire arm. Many times you believed that you discharged X amount of rounds and other details of the scene only to discover later that you were wrong. Yes your mind will play tricks on you when you are in the shit when things are getting bad, so try your best to keep your cool. Thank you for giving top notch advice that will save someone from getting jammed up by the law. I love this channel !!!
Thanks for your service!
I record it all. But it could take me weeks to replay it all back. It isn't linear. It is in pieces.
Nobody should ever be forced to choose between DEATH or JAIL.
Welcome to the rest of the world, where you can't even use any weapon to defend yourself! Too bad criminals are already criminals and they don't care! xD
Agreed. Sadly, I had to. I had a strange random woman approach my car and block my way out after I told her twice to leave me alone. She threatened and harassed me and I couldn't think clearly enough to leave soon enough before she had lied to the police and successfully had me blamed for her crimes.
Simplification: Anything you say can later be used against you so use your head and simplified , basic descriptions of what happened. Based on +22 years as a Sheriff’s Investigator. After that, when LE have arrived, ask for an attorney based on your feelings of being overwhelmed and maybe being in shock.
Yes, declaring your self not to be in fit condition to talk about it is good. Start with that then follow with the need for lawyer.
Don’t let them BS you with, do you think you need a attorney,as if you did something wrong. (I’m in shock I will let you know when I able to talk.)
Anytime they want you to talk they are gathering evidence, if you don’t say anything you don’t have to remember anything, I was afraid for my life.
Being a firearms certified instructor myself for over 35 years, this is exactly what I’ve always taught.
You are considered guilty until YOU prove your innocent.........What sad state the US justice system has become.
BING !!!
It's completely controlled by the Rich & Powerful in full collusion with Government. Look at tRump! Decent People matter Very Little...
It doesn’t matter whether your statements are excited utterances or not. Anything you say can be used against you as an admission by a party opponent or to show motive or under other rules.
*nod* I was taught that ANYTHING said by me in a situation will be used against me and I treat that lesson as cannon.
Rodolfo is correct. Statement of a party is considered an "admission" and is admissible evidence. It's one of the most common hearsay exceptions.
AND WILL be used against you.
@@nancythane4104 Well we keep hearing this but I'd like to know how, for instance, I say "My nose itches", is going to be used against me. I always hear the "it WILL be used against you" and always think about the poor logic but then I think about slimey prosecutors etc and realize that the real miranda warning should say "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be distorted by a slimey son of a bitch prosecutor to put you behind bars so his prosecution stats help him get a bonus or higher position". Now that was one run-on sentence.
@@NickFrom1228 "In those moments was he racked by guilt, filled with concern, in fear of his own safety? What was on his mind as a man lied bleeding to death on the ground? 'My nose itches.'"
Now it won't literally ALWAYS be used against you but the point is if it's used at all it will be used against you because the rule is statements AGAINST INTEREST by the defendant are not hearsay, when your words would help you they are inadmissable.
As someone else mentioned, it really is a sad state of affairs that potential survivors of a self-defense situation have to be careful in the aftermath to not make themselves look like suspects.
Unless you live out in the country where you're problem can be solved with a shovel and a bag of lime.
@@chiaralistica cat litter works too
Cops tell each other and all their relatives to not say anything after a defensive shooting. They say don't talk to the police, beyond the absolute basics. I have been in a room where a top lieutenant in a major US city's police dept said they tell their own cops to not talk for 72 hours. If the cops ask what happened, they are trained to say "I am too shook up to talk right now." they know why - you are not likely to help yourself. After 72 hours you talk, through your attorney
Cops don’t get three days to make a statement. 😂.
@@p.sherman3158
they get 3 days to fabricate an aliby
My partner was involved in a OIS. He was smart. He called his attorney shortly after. The attorney made the scene before the chief did. The attorney instructed the officer to turn off the bwc and remove and ICV. The attorney also said that she old consult with him after three days. The chief concured. It was also in our policy. It's typically SOP in every department that I know of. Maybe not all but most.
@@p.sherman3158 "I am too shook up to talk" is a statement.
@@bryanwells1051 I have no idea where you are but that is a bunch of bs. An attorney can’t tell an officer what to do with police issued equipment which is now evidence. Seriously where is this ?
Great video. Spot on.
In my classes they only added: when the police arrive, every word you say will cost you $1000 for your lawyer to fix.
You will not be OK. Nothing good happens to you after you pull the trigger. Ask to go to the hospital and speak to your lawyer before making a statement.
And last: Your current statement is not going to be compared to your scene-statement... it's being compared to the LEOs memory of what you said in the first statement. There is a difference.
Again, good job!
Conceal carry class I took was awesome…. I’m realizing more and more how much they were able to teach us effectively. They taught us (reiterated several times) to not go into detail if we had to pull or fire our conceal carry that the MOST important thing was to say “I feared for my life” and ask to talk to your lawyer before you make any statements. They also mentioned about people hardly EVER get the details correct.
What I was told is that if you have to defend yourself don't talk to the cops (that includes the 911 operator).
This is a highly emotional adrenaline filled event & you'll get details wrong & have to correct yourself later. That will be used against you.
Law enforcement is looking for a reason to charge you as a well.
Give a basic broad statement.
"He was going to kill me I had to defend myself."
Nothing more.
Then ask for a lawyer and say nothing until you are in private with the lawyer. In the interrogation room at the station you are being recorded so that is not a safe place to talk with your lawyer. A conversation with a lawyer is supposed to not be listened in to by law enforcement. But the equipment is there and do you really want to trust them not to use it?
I highly doubt a Police Dept. would listen to you and your lawyer talking, that lawyer would sue the shit out of them, not to mention in would never be admitted as evidence in a court of law, now if your dumb enough to talk to LE in a room, then yes you are being recorded.
Very good point. Call out for someone to call 911. So you don't incriminate yourself on tape.
Thank you for addressing a relevant issue. In my conceal carry class there was a rep from USCCA and a USCCA attorney. The best advice they gave us that once we were safe to follow the instructions step by step on the back of the USCCA membership card. Almost everything you said lined up perfectly with those instructions and that is no surprise in light of your affiliation with that entity.
I'm a USCCA member. Best investment I've ever made.
@monroe fisher
This is what it says on the back of my card:
Post-Incident Instructions
1. Call 911
Explain: "I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself."
Request: "Please send BOTH police and an ambulance to this location."
2. Call the Critical Response Team: (USCCA Critical Response Phone number) Press * for immediate assistance.
3. When Responding Officers Arrive
Comply: Follow all police instructions.
Medical: Request medical attention, if necessary.
Silence: "I will cooperate 100 percent, but first I need my attorney."
(Do not talk further without your lawyer present.)
I've learned the best way to deal with cops is to stay as far away from them as possible, never catch their attention, and never call them unless you ABSOLUTELY have to.
Seriously, it's strange that I as a law abiding citizen want absolutely nothing to do with police.
Yall are letting fear rule your life. Myself, my friends, coworkers (assorted races have you, black, white, asian, mexican) all have had run ins with police, multiple times and none of us have had negative experiences, unless you count getting a speeding ticket which is just a consequence of your own actions.
@@orangejumpsuit6905
😂
@@orangejumpsuit6905
Your funny
@@orangejumpsuit6905 you're a joke 🤣🤣🤣
It's really sad that we have to protect ourselves against criminal prosecution if we are defending ourselves against criminal!
In a self defense incident you have 3 fights:
The fight to save your life.
The fight to stay out of prison.
The fight to keep your home and money.
I've actually never had any one address this specific issue with me before. I've heard about what to do if you're pulled over or if the police show up at your house, but what to say or not say to a 911 operator has never been directly addressed for me. These days this advice is so relevant and a genuine concern. Thanks for a such an informative video. I'll pass it on to my friends and family.
To answer your question about what we were taught in our concealed carry training, the police officer who taught my class, as a side job, said that we should tell the responding officer(s) that we need to go to the emergency room to be checked out... even if we were okay physically. The reason for that is that it would give us at least 30 minutes to get our minds right and that the police could not question us during an exam. I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically what he told us, if I recall correctly. I am cursed with being brutally honest and open -- but I know enough not to talk to police after a self-defense shooting, at least not beyond the basics. I know how I am, and I know I am going to need some time to get my thoughts. I also know enough to get a lawyer before I have any conversations with police.
Having a break to get your thoughts together isn’t the only reason you should go to the hospital. During an adrenaline dump, you may have wounds or injuries that you do not know about. You want to get checked for anything you may not be aware of. This includes blood testing for any negative effects of the adrenaline dump itself, especially for people with heart conditions. You shouldn’t be talking to anyone until you have a discussion with your lawyer regardless of how long it is.
Another reason is if they take you they will pay for it.
@@kerusso3568 Could you add a website I could check that? First I’ve heard of it
@@2AVET o
@@2AVET p
I as a former police officer wish you would go into examples of real life incidents in detail and explain what happened and what the person did right and what they did wrong.
That would be interesting, but I totally understand his suggestions and why. You just potentially killed someone in response to a deadly attack. The stress and biochemical reaction will leave you not thinking clearly enough to answer detailed questions if you remember incorrectly you destroy your credibility and just put yourself in the hot seat with a murder charge. I think people need to understand the necessity of an investigation during any shooting situation. It’s entirely possible for someone to commit murder and try to make themselves out to be a victim. It’s quite important to catch that sort of activity if that is indeed the case and no outsider knows what happened without a complete investigation
Tell me your story and I'll tell it for you. Technically it was like wild bills story. He told someone.
Problem with that is it doesn't matter what you do. What matters is where you are, and who you are. Even a congressman's own kid was victim of railroading in Atlanta. obviously not a democrats kid.
Since he kicked the gun away from the thug after tackling him during the armed robbery attempt, cops said he touched it last, so he was in possession of the illegal firearm. Not the crook who brought it, and was using it to rob them.
Pigs are 99% of the problem.
I continue to maintain that the absolute FIRST thing to do, BEFORE you call 911, after an incident is: RELOAD!
You, as you stated, have no idea to the extent of the Threat.
I heard basically the same advice as you provided with the edition of "I acted in self-defense, but beyond that I want to consulted an attorney before making any further statements, and I would like to be checked out at a hospital." When at the hospital let the physician know that you feel like you're under more stress than you've ever been in your life, and reiterate that you want to speak to an attorney before making any further statements.
911 Dispatcher here, good video. Most dispatchers are not out to get you, they're on your side BUT the recordings are easily used by prosecution.
"most"
Use the mute button and only speak when requested to.@@stevew278
I, too, am a dispatcher. Thank you for speaking up and confirming dispatchers are NOT out to get you.
Uh huh
Yeah, right.
As a 16 year veteran 911 dispatcher (now retired), let me add some more information, some from the _dispatcher’s_ perspective:
- Every phone call, even me calling home, is recorded, as well as every radio channel. I have made hundreds of tapes of both incoming calls and radio traffic related to calls. The recordings only contain calls and radio related to the specific incident and will always have both. What a caller says, what questions are asked and what instructions are given by the dispatcher, what is told the officers via phone/radio, what the officers say to each other via radio, what the officers tell the dispatcher via phone/radio. Also the CAD (computer aided dispatch) “card” contents are printed. These contain every note a dispatcher makes, notes officers make on their MDTs, and most have integrated records management so suspect, victim, witness, vehicle, and many other items are included. All of this is admissible in court!
- Never be untruthful in your statements. You may be vague but be honest. It is better to not make a statement than to give wrong, incorrect, or false information. Be prepared to be placed into custody.
- My advice to anyone in one of my firearms classes is to make sure the dispatcher knows that you were in fear of serious bodily injury or death and because of this you defended yourself (or other person if appropriate). It is not wise to flat out say you won’t answer any questions or make any statements without your attorney. Instead, tell dispatchers pertinent information, tell officers that you want to fully cooperate but you are not feeling well and need to go to the hospital. Officers will be interrogating you and you will be read your Miranda rights. You have the right to remain silent and is is good to do so! Ask to have an attorney present when being questioned.
- Dispatchers are trained to keep callers on the line until officers are in contact (in the case of a victim or party to the incident) or officers are on scene. If it is a witness that can see what the officers are doing, I have kept them on the line so they can tell me what is happening with the officers and their interactions (this is more for officer safety and the ability to react quicker as things happen). That being said, if the caller does not feel safe, then that is my primary concern. Never would I keep a witness on the phone if it would place them in any danger - I would get pertinent information and let them go if that was appropriate.
- It is good, but not necessary, to be the first caller in a shooting incident.
- I have been a certified firearms instructor for many years and have held a concealed carry license even longer. I even did LEO training and took dispatchers to the range. Because I carry, my questioning of a caller was _always_ designed to determine if a shooting incident was a self defense situation. Wording of my questions was purposefully designed to clarify the situation. Properly trained dispatchers will do the same. I always ask if the caller is safe, and why or why not. I always get a name, age, and full description of my caller. There are so many different scenarios it is hard to describe, but if the caller is using a weapon to keep control of a suspect, I make sure that the dispatchers and officers are aware of this. If the caller feels unsafe, I would ask them to use the speakerphone function and put the phone down or even in a shirt pocket. If I need to give instructions, and many times I do, the caller can hear me still.
- The dispatcher won’t (or should not) be asking how many times someone shot their firearm. That is _not_ pertinent to the response of the police and other first responders, like EMS. I want to know about suspect(s), their description(s), what transpired and led up to the shooting. How many suspects? Are they still there? Are they associated with a vehicle? Is it there? Which way did it go? Is the caller injured? Who else is injured? Where are the gunshot wounds? These are the important things that responders need to know. Also will determine to some degree what the response will look like.
- The caller’s demeanor means nothing to me. People completely freak out over barking dogs and call 911. Calls have come in on non-emergency lines with completely calm callers who just stabbed their spouse. Unless you’ve been there, you wouldn’t believe what comes in!
I have taken the stand in court as a witness to the prosecution and as a witness to the defense based on me being the dispatcher who handled a shooting call. Lawyers sometimes ask the stupidest questions, such as “did the caller sound overly excited or overly calm?” My testimony always came back to the same thing: you can’t read anything into the demeanor of a caller. But I have been asked other things, such as why I asked (or didn’t ask) certain questions. Why I put certain information (or omitted information) from a card. Or simply, “was this you that answered this call?” I would always listen to the tape and look over the card printout before taking the stand, sometimes it would be several months after the incident happened and I wouldn’t remember any of the details. One case the defendant accidentally shot someone and because of the phone call he was convicted of a lesser charge than the original charges.
Sorry for this big long post, but I wanted to make sure that everyone understands that the dispatcher can, if doing their job properly, be a big asset for you!
"Officer, thank god you are here I was afraid for my life I had to defend myself then STFU and wait for your attorney.
I used to tell my clients to never call 911 themselves, get someone else to do it for you. Solves all of these problems up front!
That is very interesting, nice advice, so if your involved in a home self defense case, call your neighbor and ask them to call 911, tell your neighbor shots have been fired was in fear for my life, please send EMS. That is damm good brilliant post you made.
@@markcab2055 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bad idea. Call yourself, keep it short and sweet. Hang up.
yes and no. is it someone you know and trust to keep it to a minimum? what if it's a bad or non-witness and he says "two people were fighting and one got shot" instead of "robber pulled gun and got shot"?
As soon as you call 911, assume you are being recorded. While the phone is ringing, before the operator answers, the recording has started. Do not say anything that might be used against you later.
You are being recorded and in my city they clearly state recorded line...
For those of you who do not know. The 911 system is set up to start recording before the 911 operator answers the phone. Once the phone has begun ringing, assume you are being recorded.
US lawshield tells us to give them the relevant information then hang up and don’t answer when they call back. It’s also important to know that when you call 911 it is recording while ringing before anyone picks up the phone.
Tom, your videos are of unsurpassed excellence on the full range of topics that you address, tactical matters, ATF, the interview with Sheriff Waak. For the record, I say so having taken, so far, more than1,000 hours of private training on pistol, carbine and shotgun, and POST use of force and firearms certification as an armed EMT on a sheriff's posse. All that and periodic audits of CCW classes. Outstanding videos, Tom. TY
I just subbed after looking at his backlog of videos.
It's a nice gold mine.
Thanks James! I have 12 videos unreleased on RUclips just queued up to go, another 4 in post production at the moment and pages of ideas. Thanks for joining me on the ride.
The world is turning quickly into this other world where wrong is right and right is now wrong. It's getting very hard for the law abiding Man to stay out of jail and the courtroom. Keep up the great work, helping us do just that.
Regardless if you believe in the Bible or not, there's a scripture which predicts this very act that we're seeing right now. I'm a believer myself, and this is most certainly not a coincidence. The scripture states that at some point wrong will be called right, and right will be called wrong
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Imagine the horror of having a criminal attack you, but then you get arrested because you were defending yourself. Then you go to jail. Then you try to find a lawyer while in jail. Days pass. You finally get bonded out (maybe!!). Now you get to spend thousands on a criminal defense that you were the victim for. Maybe just bury the body & forget about it instead of calling 911.
As someone who is both military and LEO trained in the use of firearms and hands self defense use of force, I, as a currently working Detention Officer, after having been in a hands on use of force situation, I've always put in my reports ... "Due to my fear for my life" " I use that force that I believed was reasonable, necessary and legal."
even when you werent in fear of your life, right? so just lying to give you the ability to use excessive force?
This is so true. You get things wrong in the beginning. It can also be used by the media, haters and trolls.
Thank you for the information. We are in troubled times where the criminals are the ones protected. It goes back to the 60s and 70s when prosecutors told rape victims you shouldn't have dressed like that.
In schools retaliation is punished more than the aggressor by design to make the kids grow up okay with people walking all over them.
If you put your kid in public school you are sending them to he trained not to speak out against wrong doings or speak up for themselves.
The only problem with staying on the phone with 911 is if I have pulled the trigger I want to contact my lawyer ASAP and for that I need my phone.
I got similar advice from a relative that was a cop. She told me to make sure I was in fear for my life and even if I was impressed with my shot, not to talk about it. She told me of instances she had encountered where the shooter was stoked about that headshot and excitedly told responding officers about it. Those officers have to testify in court about what you said.
from of an objective matter..what does it matter though if a person is amped about it or not..if the situation was breaking and entering in the middle of the night..then what does it matter if the shooter was sad of happy..has nothing to do with the facts surrounding the case..
@@Spazzfrom.1989 if they are all jazzed about it, the prosecution will paint them as a dangerous person looking for an excuse to murder someone. Surely someone so well trained wouldn't need to kill in order to defend themselves.
I understand the objective point, but we are human beings and not robots. We can be manipulated. Under such circumstances, the facts aren't different, but how they might be interpreted is.
@@Spazzfrom.1989sadly the prosecutor will try to convence the jury you did it not in self defense. ☹️
yeah..im just trying to be normal and think on the facts..people shouldnt make decisions on emotions..not on this..i mean heck they have weeks as a jurror to let those emotions slide off..so youd hope!@@thatslumlordlife
i would not say that. i would always say in fear of great bodily harm. that would be my goto.
Remember the officers are Not your friends. The police are allowed to lie per SCOTUS. Interrogation rooms are small and made to make you feel uncomfortable. Don't say anything during Interrogation until you have a lawyer. Make sure it is recorded. Great video
Thanks for this video! It is so important to never talk without a lawyer present!
I once fell for the trap, " if you scratch our back we'll scratch yours" A person can not undo a statement! I promise you, you best welfare is not their concern by far! They will mislead, and flat out lie, to get a confession!
I was taught to say: “there has been a shooting, my weapon is secure.” The comment section has a lot of great info in addition to the vid. Thank you for this
In addition:
Don't add anything other than the condition and location of the perpetrator. Do not say how or why anything happened.
The 5th is not just for criminals. Clearly and explicitly state that you are invoking your rights under the 5th. Repeat this each time someone TRIES to ask you questions. They may later use any answers you give as a sign that you have "waived" your 5th amendment rights.
What about verbally expressing "I'm in fear for my life he has a gun on me"
@@Gypsygirl9I’m no lawyer and this isn’t legal advice, but that may be a high bar to overcome in and of itself.
Silence is golden !
Situational awareness is key to your safety... and when you feel like someone is following you let them know you know by looking at them without stopping they just lost their advantage
In self defense certification class we were told to say "I was in fear for my life. I want an attorney before making a statement" and nothing else.
Invaluable advice. So important to make this part of our regular training.
Thank you Mr. Grieve. Your advice has been invaluable in all of your videos. Having both a prosecution and a defense background in law representation, plus being pro-2nd amendment, means a great deal to a citizen like myself that believes in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Thank you again.
Thank you very much Tom for educating us about the 911 call steps. I really appreciate it
Dont call them! But if you do just tell them to send someone & leave it @ that.
As a retired LEO of 30yrs, I find your videos very interesting
Appreciate the service! Enjoy your well earned retirement!
"interesting?" How many innocent people did you jail? How often did you violate the Constitution (state or US)? Mindless thug. "I was just doing my job." F.O.
And you'd do more to arrest a self defensive shooter than a mugger
Great advice. In having to call 911 for Police response and Medical this year ( Oregon) I've noticed a significant problem with several 911 Operators communication skills. Some we encountered had no business being a Emergency Services Operator, as they were argumentative, asked the same question over and over again after getting a clear, concise response. Some operators were great, calm, professional and to the point. I don't know who or what the criteria is lately for 911 operators, but be aware many are head cases, we have discovered.
Here, fog this mirror...you're hired
Most of them learn on the job and have had no communications experience previously. I would prefer that they would hire military veterans I know how to properly talk on the radio.
Bro your 911 operators are the least of your worries in Oregon
Huh, I figured it’d be unlawful to protect yourself in your home in Oregon by now !
Some 911 operators are outsourced to companies like Convergys and Sikes because the municipality doesn't have the resources to have its own.
I was told the exact thing you are talking about in my conceal carry class. They had an attorney that was a conceal carry attorney. It’s been 10 years and I still have his card in my wallet ❤
"Someone's been shot. Send EMS to such and such location" Hang up ! Secure your weapon. When law enforcement arrive, identify yourself. When the questions start, your only reply should be that you're feeling ill and need medical attention. Not another word should be spoken until having legal counsel.
Its sad that in this country "innocent until proven guilty" applies more so to the criminal than the poor victim who has to show beyond shadow of doubt that their life was in actual danger.
Video starts at 0:58
I pray to God i am never in a situation where i have to use my firearm to stop a serious threat, but if i ever happen to find myself in this curse, This advice is pretty solid. Keep your conversation to a minimum, control your emotions as best you can, and request an ambulance to buy time to speak with your attorney BEFORE investigating officials. ALWAYS try to de-escalate and retreat first if possible.
The fact that a law abiding citizen has to even defend themselves against the law even when its clear as day that someone threatened your life is fking disgusting.
This is great advice. Too often the good guy attacked government. Granted, I'm working from information I've gathered from the news... whose purpose is to sell corn flakes.
I had an experience with a guy trying to run me off a county road and when the cops got there we wrote our statements. My account was 2 paragraphs, bad guy's was 2 pages. The officer questioned the integrity of my statement due to its brevity. I wouldn't budge for the sake of the officer, and the guy that ran into me was sighted.
You were driving blind? Dude!
Never called anyone, never will, I don't have to live in fear, and if anyone is dumb enough to attempt anything with me, they already made their choice, "when the government fails at its job, I won't fail at mine" - Very smart man
Agreed. The time to develop a mindset for not only addressing the 911 operator but addressing a deadly force incident is BEFORE you have one.
Once you're certain that the fighting is over [ don't take that for granted ], make the call.
Be assertive, tell the operator to listen. Be brief. Give location, that a violent crime took place and shots were fired, you need police and fire rescue. If suspects fled, give a description and direction of travel. I would stop right there. Operator will ask all kinds of questions, only repeat what you said before.
I have years of practice in relaying information as a paramedic, but have never been involved in a shooting. It's hard to gather your thoughts, you have to practice this. You definitely want to make the call, juries don't understand why a victim wouldn't. But be brief and to the point.
You'll have to give a little more to responding officers, but keep it brief,
Nope. The only things you have to give responding officers at the scene is your name and address, your carry permit (if applicable), and your gun , if you fired it. If you didn't fire it, but they want it anyway, let them have it. No sense in being argumentative. Better to give it up there than to give them ammunition for a search warrant for your entire house. You don't need to give them anything else unless you and your attorney agree it would be in your best interest. That means politely decline to speak at the scene.
All you have to tell 911 is that there has been a shooting at the corner of Smith and Jones, and that the police and an ambulance are needed there in a hurry. If suspect(s) fled, describe them and any weapons you might have seen. Then hang up.
As a retired cop, I take that part where they tell you "anything you say can and WILL be used against you in a court of law" very seriously. Right there, you are being told that Officer Friendly is NOT your friend.
@@bryansimmons4550 I can't argue with that, but at the same time I want to establish the narrative. What happened, who initiated the conflict, and why I used force. I'm not intimidated by dispatchers and responding officers. Others may want to remain silent until they can get legal advice.
Excellent topic Tom.. The instructor I had way back when told us if possible have someone call before there are any shots fired and let the operator know that someone has broken into the house. While you (I) am getting in a defensive position not advancing or sweeping the house. Also to tell the operator that I (the homeowner) am armed so that they may alert the officers. Stay on the phone and only say "Please Hurry"
One helpful thing a 911 call can do for you is let you know when the cops will
get there, and when you should put the gun down.
I work security and I have been doing this line of work since 1992 and when I was taking my first classes in 1992 we had police officers a judge and I think an attorney showed up and they all talk to us and there wasn't all at one time. This was periodically through the several months that we were in class and they all said very similar things you mentioned don't be messing with her brass and things like this. This is also not a time when you go collect your spent magazine's what I was told by all of them. The whole class was told this you empty your magazine. You throw it on the ground and you walk away from it. It is lost. It is gone. You cannot go back to get it. They said one exception was if the scene is still active and you're going back to retrieve your magazine because you may have ammunition in it. They said that would be okay but once everything's over with and it's done you can't go back to collect your magazines or speed loaders or whatever else that was part of what was going on. Nobody talks about this the scene after a shooting not to go mess with anything not to go pick up stuff. A few people have said pay attention to things. Don't let people come up and start messing with it because key evidence has a way of walking off like the aggressors firearm will walk off because his buddy took it or somebody else on the street picked it up. Wanting it as a souvenir or free or wanting to protect the guy or her or whatever and pay attention to where your brass is because the evidence eradication team will show up. That's your fire department and EMS I wish somebody would talk about in detail what to do about where you're at after it's over with the police are on their way. What you should be doing. I know a few people have talked about this but I wish more would talk about this, especially attorneys. Things like this because that's crucial. I wouldn't know this if it hadn't been for the fact that I had police officers, a judge and an attorney that showed up in my class and talked about this part of the class I had was seen preservation things like don't let the janitor mop up the blood things like that. If you get a chance I would really be interested in seeing something you do on what we should do in preserving the area for the investigation that's going to be coming and getting the information we need to give to our attorneys because I I've only seen one or two people talk about this
I've never heard the "empty the magazine" narrative before.
I've been through the Police Academy & I'm in the field.
Of what importance could you possibly think that serves? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING can be gleaned from you having done this.
I've heard people say that it proves you were scared for your life. I've seen that totally backfire when a video pops up of you shooting a downed attacker 10 extra times once he's been downed after 3 shots. What are you going to do fire the other 12 shots into the air or whatever?
That's horribly bad advice imo.
You shoot until you stop the threat.
You stopped when the threat was over.
That's EXACTLY what you should say happened & nothing else. Well that's what your attorney should be saying, you should be saying "I think I need an attorney just to be careful".
As long as you are safe, I would think it's a good idea to use your phone & take pics of the scene from where you are standing. Shoot completely around yourself 360° and be sure to capture everything you can, both longshot and close up. Color me paranoid, but make sure to send copies those images to your lawyer/trusted family member before handing your phone to the cops. What are our rights on giving up our phones to the police, anyhow?
That may be the longest comment in the history of comments. I thought I was reading a "how to" manual. Lol
Good points you are making as not every defensive shooting takes place in a home burglary or invasion. The store owner who shoots an armed robber is the more likely scenario.
@@michaellucas8927 what's wrong with being educated...lol🙄
As a police officer I always tell people to arm themselves and protect their families in whatever way they can. I spoke to a guy once who was a convicted felon who could not possess guns legally and he and his family were in danger from his old gang because they accused him of snitching, I told him that I can’t give him legal advice but that if it were me, my family’s safety would be prioritized over following the law. It’s just unfortunate that someone can be charged when acting in self defense. Even if you beat it, the family of the POS can still sue you civilly and try to ruin your life financially.
That is why you make sure there is only one story and do not answer any questions for an emergency call dispatcher who will relay that information to the police who can and will use it against you. This should be common knowledge, it is in our bill of rights after all.
This is why I don’t think felons should be barred from owning guns, because obviously if you come from a dangerous world you run into dangerous characters.
As for voting maybe their vote shouldn’t be totally removed but just restricted, and then they should be able to prove they’ve learned something (if they have) in order to get the restriction taken off.
@@SupHapCak I think once a person is off of papers they should have their rights restored. I personally have a feeling it's not an accident thst so many people get locked up and then they can't own guns or vote because of their background. Seems like a good way of marginalizing people.
Thank you so much for the explicit details!!! Very helpful to get precise unambiguous tips when dealing with a 911 call.
Tell them you need police at your location. Period. When the cops show up tell them your name. Period. If they ask you anything else tell them you want a lawyer before you answer any questions. Period.
I like this comment. As a US Supreme Court justice has stated, "Do not talk to the police. It can't help you." I have heard that at least one federal judge has ruled that you must specifically state that you are invoking your fifth amendment right to remain silent, otherwise it does not apply. I have rehearsed in my mind that I would say, "On advice of counsel, I am invoking my fifth amendment right to remain silent. I do not consent to any searches or seizures. I want my attorney present during any and all questioning." The police must investigate if they think a crime has been committed. I don't have to cooperate with their investigation.
"Dispatch 10-59, refused caller is adv they need police at this 10-20. Unk situation. They're refusing to provide any further information." Is a great way to have officers arrive on scene knowing you're the victim.
I go by what I was taught at Front Sight and you just about parallel that instruction.
You're a great speaker and easy to listen to.
Thanks for the video.
Step one : dont call 911
Step two: gardening time 💐
Or… call for a dinner reservation ☺️
Chickens are a gardeners best friend…😊
So become immediately involved in criminal activity. What is the difference between you and your attacker. You have the same criminal personality and mind set as they do.
@@frankedgar6694 but I’m faster 😉
@@falcon4548 You sound like every high school dummy I’ve ever taught. “I’m smarter than the cops.”
I was told "Shut up, don't make a statement, just say you're not in a mental state to make an official statement yet. Shock, and adrenaline, let your lawyer talk for you"
So the advice boils down to "stay aware of your surroundings", "treat the area as still hostile", "don't sweat the details", and "It's alright to put the phone down".
Your Right I’m thankful my husband is very knowledgeable being Navy Trained.
Tom,
Thank you so much for what you do.
I agree with this video 100%. I was taught to also say this to avoid questions, " I was just involved in a life threatening situation, I would like to go to the hospital and be checked out by a doctor" this limits what you will be asked, and also gives you time to calm down and think.
Hope that helps someone.
I would like to see you do a video on..
You've been in a life threatening situation and were injured. The ambulance is going to take you to a hospital. What do I do with my gun?
Thank you again
Will do lost soul, thanks!
Just came across your video, thank you for the useful information. In my CCP class we were told to tell the 911 operators that you shot someone in self defense because you were in fear of your life and to send the police to your location, then hang up. It's sad that when you have to defend yourself, you have to be careful because they may want to prosecute you.
First thing they ask is address of the emergency give the address and say "someone has been shot send an ambulance." Hang up. Better to tell someone else to call 911 if anyone is there to do it. When police arrive say nothing other than. "I want an attorney to be present for any questions." "I am invoking my right to remain silent." No sensible attorney will have you say anything else.
If the incident is causing you health issues like chest pains, tell the responding officers. They have to take you straight to a hospital emergency room, not the police station.
I was told NOT to give a description of myself to 911. The operator, OR the officers could misinterpret that description as being for the perp. And think you're the bad guy when they show up.
I was also told that if possible and the scene is clear, to NOT have your weapon out. Remember, they're answering a call to a shooting. If they're really amped up when they get there, you may or may not have time to comprehend the warning to drop the gun, before more lead starts to fly.