Will New Shocks Transform The InfluEnzo? Cheap Ferrari 308 GTS Update
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- My Ferrari 308 now seems to be running well engine wise... but I was never truly happy with the handling. I'm hoping that a fresh, new set of Coil Overs will make it much better to drive.
Check out Lou's great videos: / @loutrottier
sites.google.c...
Tayna Car Batteries are fantastic and supply all my car batteries! Use the code NUMBER27YT for a further 5% off! - www.tayna.co.uk
25
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
Bit by bit, this car keeps getting better. Before long there will be a brief moment when everything is sorted. Then, all the parts will begin to degrade at their own rate and the merry-go-round will start all over again.
People like the look of these cars lowered but resist it; it really screws up the geometry. And as you've discovered, they can ground out a lot easier than you'd think! As Lou said, keep it close to factory and it will be lovely. 308 road cars also need to be soft by today's standards or too much torsional stress will be going through the body, especially with a GTS.
@Tim Gosling Yep don’t fuck with the near-perfect standard suspension setup on 308s. It’s sacrosanct and plain daft.
I would have recommended going with rebuilt factory shocks. It’s not terribly expensive (all relative of course). You can either send your old ones in and wait for them to be rebuilt and returned (least expensive way to go) or buy fresh rebuilds and send your old ones in for “core charge” refund. I did that with both my GT4 and GTS and it definitely improved the ride. Nice thing is that Koni will rebuild to the original spec US or Euro. Hope what you got works out for you though. Definitely do not throw out your old shocks. They are worth $$$ for rebuilding purposes.
Were the original factory ones made by Koni?.
I completely agree with you. I'm sure that Ferrari know more about their cars than any aftermarket company.
@@robinkirke yeah I would not be surprised if they were. They're red, after all.
Love the mechanics explaination of how he changed the rear shocks.
Take off the bottom bolt and take off the top one
Brilliant stuff. Love it
Hi Jack, best to set the rear dampers slightly softer than the fronts with coilovers, this will help with bumps and stop the car from bouncing too much at higher speeds. A slight rake downwards to the front will also help, therefore a slightly higher rear ride height than the front. Enjoy…
I note the 'Interesting' comments related to the use of 'shock absorber' and 'damper'.
The DAMPER is the item that dampens the oscillations of a spring. This is the correct technical term that is used in all relevant textbooks - including: the authoritative large work (tome) titled: Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by WL MiIliken and DL Milliken (published by the Society of Engineers (SAE) international). In this book, the Millikens provide an exhaustive description of the damper and never stray from using the word damper. However, in the chapter’s title, the Millikens add the term shock absorber in parenthesis as this term has become the colloquial (lay persons) term - a term that’s also used by most motoring journalists. As a mechanical engineer with 32 years experience, I use the term damper to describe the ‘said items’ fitted to a vehicle as the term shock absorber ‘clangs’. However I have come to accept that most people call ‘it’ the shock absorber.
Jack, so glad old Influenzo's engine is behaving. About the suspension mods, don't expect too much, my long experience is that the "bolt on" bits seldom live up to the hype you see about them. There's more to a fine car than just hanging bits on it.
I agree to an extent but usually fitting quality coilovers to an old car is a night and day difference. The question is, are these quality coilovers???
2 of my favorite you tubers on you tube together. You really make this stuff fun Jack 👍🏻 I need to go find some of your T-shirt Merch now 👍🏻😁
😂
I've been watching Lou's stuff from the beginning. He does exceptional work. That car will be exquisite when done.
I'll second that.
3rd 👍
Ugg, put it on a set of scales and corner balance it. You also need to get it aligned.
Jack have you gone insane - putting non-standard-spec suspension on a model of car renowned as having one of the all-time great ride/handling setups ! Yes, put new bits on to replace the old tired stuff but NO don’t change the ride height, stiffness and camber etc from OE specifications. Very few cars are perfect with factory spec but the 308 is one of them, Pug 205 GTi and Clio Williams being notable others.
It's great to see it back, your perseverance has seen it all through the difficult parts.
I owned an 1989 BMW 325i Sport years ago. It was 7 years old at the time, with 50K miles on the clock.
I decided to havr a complete refresh of the suspension carried out by BMW, using stock 325i Sport parts - Shocks, springs, all the bushes.
I also had new steering components fitted, all the alignments checked and corrected, new tyres and completely new brakes all round - I had the money at the time, so I "went to Town" on the car, to make it like brand new.
When I got the car back, I admired all the pristine clean new parts, and felt pleased with myself.
When I drove the car however, it felt exactly the same as before the work was carried out! 😄
Great to see the on the road. Almost 100K subs. Well done.
God I love this car!!!!!!❤
I know she has been a labor of love and not cheap to live with or bring up to her optimum, but brother, I have a feeling that the 308’s are going to skyrocket in price in the very near future!!
There just isn’t another Ferrari (from the late 70’s to now) in my opinion that is as beautiful and as loved as this model is!!
It is just an ageless design!!! The more time passes the better the design gets!!
I regret passing on a 308 when I bought my 2016 Cayman GTS Guards red! I paid $105,000 US for it! I could have easily picked up a very clean and well maintained 308 🤦🏻♂️
Ugh, oh well…..if you have an email I have a pretty cool picture of my GTS next to a red 308 😇
Ive worked with road and competition cars all my life and you have exposed a problem regarding aftermarket adjustable dampers. The factory spent fortunes developing a spring and damper combo that works well over almost if not all conditions. Not necessarily brilliant in any but they work well. Whacking on a set of aftermarket adjustable things just messes with the ride, the way it covers differing road surfaces and conditions and the geometry set up. Great if its a racing car where you go testing and change things and log it all but on a road car, it just causes problems. And as you say yourself the results aren't that spectacular. Personally id have had the old ones refurbed and popped original spec springs back in. But its not my car and the vid would be boring unlike yours, which is as good as ever. Thanks.
Finally someone using their proper name - Dampers!
I enjoyed catching up with the Influenzo Jack! Your doing a great job with her..... It's a cracking car bud 👍
Great looking car. It just has a timeless quality about it.
Enjoy.
Your 308 really sounds great and is running beautifully. I like the original single exhaust you have retained. It's a fantastic Ferrari. Good on you from Kiwiland.
Lou is doing a great job on his car.
When I replaced the shocks on my '78 and took it to my Italian mechanic for some other work, he yelled at me and asked me what I did to the car and why I took the Koni's off. :) He was old school.
With performance cars ALWAYS fit the tyres of exactly the same type that the car was fitted with when new.
The reason is that the Development Engineers tuned the car's suspension to these tyres. Did that with my BMW E39 for the 15 years I owned it from new and was rewarded with exemplary handling.
Shocks are funny things. One of the stories from my family was a time when my Dad was wanting to replace the shock absorbers on his 1955 Studebaker coupe. My Mom worked with my uncle, who was a mechanic, to have the shocks replaced on the car without Dad’s knowledge. She then packed up the old shocks in the boxes and wrapped them as Christmas presents. As they were driving to celebrate Christmas at my grandparents’ house, they passed over a railroad crossing. My Dad proclaimed, “Do you see how this car acted over those tracks? It wouldn’t do that if it had new shocks.” My Mom had to bite her tongue to keep from laughing. Later, they all had a big laugh at my Dad’s expense when he opened his Christmas presents to find the old shocks had already been replaced. My poor Dad has never lived that one down 😂
You can't lower the car about an inch and expect it to handle as it should. It will just have too many effects on the setting. I would have fitted original spec dampers and springs to get it back to factory spec, then get all the geometry set up as it would have come from Ferrari. Alternatively, if you know a company who can guarantee an improvement on the standard settings for the road then give them a try. A company I have used in the passed and who I know do an excellent job is Northampton Motorsport. They have done the geomentry on several of my cars and it has transformed them to how they should be.
I'm happy to see it running so well -- congratulations! Shocks (or as you English tend to more accurately describe them as "Dampers") can be subtle things to adjust. First you need to understand what the adjustment adjusts: Low-speed bounce/compression? low-speed rebound? high-speed compression? high speed rebound? Some combination of those or something else like blowoff? Each characteristic affects a different aspect of the car's ride. Low speed compression and rebound effect how the car transitions into and out of corners -- basically how it "settles". These can influence understeer and oversteer. The high speed settings (and blow-off if the shocks are so equipped) effects the way the suspension handles sharp bumps, like a railroad crossing, pot holes or the patter of the rear end that you were referring to. The low-speed settings are more commonly adjustable road-car or many race shocks, but sometimes they adjust both compression and rebound at the same time.
Remember also do corner weights. It may not be quite as essential than say in 911 because Ferrari chassis is torsionally so soft. But it is always a good practice to do corner weights.
Secondly, I recommend you find out the official ride height measurement points . If you measure from the wheel well arches it may lead a bit off. Remember the 308 is still quite hand made. Porsche actually forbids measuring from wheel arches and their cars have been mm accurate for ages! (And still they checked my car like that in the MOT.) My own 996 is set 1mm accurately and corner weighted as perfect as it was possible. Getting rear numbers balanced is more important than front. It is usually always a compromise. Consider also your weight and the average co-driver weight. Rear weighted cars are quite sensitive to wheel alignment. I'd pretty much try to stay in the factory numbers. Adding camber may be tempting but overdo it and it makes the car more darty on an uneven road. I hear constantly how bad the English B-roads are.
Wishbone suspension usually drops roll center about 12-16 mm per 10 mm ride height drop. So it is not as sensitive as MacPherson which drops RCs anything 25-30 mm per 10 mm drop. Though for road I would not recommend more than 20 mm drop but I have no experience of 308. Also I would recommend a slight rake to keep the rear RC abit higher than the front because it is a rear heavy car. Very few car makes actually give the required suspension data so you need to consider. A slight rake also improves aerodynamics pretty much without exceptions. Do it too much and it will become tail happy at lift off. But first check the factory official ride heights and then decide.
Ultimately you will know once you drive it.
(I have over 30 years of experience setting car suspensions, been a pro race engineer and done all kinds of vehicle dynamics things, simulations, tyre testing & equipment and aerodynamics. I have also educated vehicle engineers in the university. Not sayng that I always have it right but there is somewhat good chance that I know what I say.)
Missed the influenzo great to see it out and about.Raising the suspension a tiny bit and softening it a tiny bit maybe also roll on warmer weather!
I have found in various car restorations that setting up the suspension can be the most complicated step (maybe getting carbs set up perfectly is up there), but getting the ride to the correct height and responsiveness is difficult. Most cars with lowered suspension ride terrible (want to rattle out the fillings in your teeth). Need to avoid going too stiff, but if lowered, that is difficult because there is less travel. This is especially difficult on modern cars with low profile tires. Also, obviously you need to get a good alignment once set up.
Glad the engine seems to be sorted now. Don't mess around with the shocks too much. Decide on the height and put in the shims and be done.👍👍
I’m delighted for you Jack, keep persisting for that ultimate driving experience from this gorgeous classic 😊
Coilovers are for track cars only and for those folks who have spines made of granite.
Standard shocks are the answer, maybe a slighter shorter spring for the aesthetics you seek to go with the standard shocks. Easy.
Hi, l have not read through all comments so if it has already been mentioned sorry for repetition. Have used Bilsteins and Konis on many of my cars over last 40 years and as l know, both the red "standard" n yellow "sport" Konis have an adjustment to compensate for wear. So please refer to factory repair manual and do not throw out the old units yet !!
Next episode for Jack, "Should I frame off restore the Influenzo in my garage while wearing my jammies? "
Love you work and videos, Jack!! Keep up the good work.
Jack, firstly congrats on reaching 100k Subs. Secondly, I'm thoroughly enjoying the variety of cars you've had on the channel of late.
I'm a big fan of Bristol Cars and would love to see you cover the 603/Britannia/ Blenheim range and aso the Bristol Beaufort/412 range as well. While Bristol cars are an aquired taste, they are criminally under represented on You Tube.
Maybe I am stupid, but let us face the fact that old cars did ride differently from modern ones. So I think the good old 308 did not ride much differently when the car was new.
A week ago I finally drove my father's 1966 Alfa Romeo Spider 1600 after not sitting in it for nearly thirty years. Nearly everything on the car had been replaced, fixed and restored.
I remembered the vehicle as sporty revvy and a pleasure to drive. I was really exhausted afer driving it through montains and valleys and in dense traffic for many hours.
Suddenly it seemed to me that the steering was very hard, the brakes needed a very heavy foot as well. And the car did not seem to rev up very quickly.
It showed me two things:
A: I got old, spoilt and weak over the last thirty years. And I got used to faster, more comfortable vehicles.
B: Maybe the memories of the Golden Age when I rode the car as a young man with beautiful young women at my side did glorify everything in my memories.
What shocks are they Jack? From my experience, there's no substitute for expensive ones! Properly designed and manufactured units from a reputable company like Nitron, Ohlins etc will be a transformation, but cheap ones are likely to be a waste of time. Koni used to offer a rebuild service, so perhaps send the old ones back to them?
Loving the recent content on the channel Jack, but great to see the Influenzo back in focus!
You guys are a breath of fresh air on the toob! Keep going, we all think you're terrific. Fair winds and calm seas ❤
I would give the shocks a couple hundred miles at least, before taking any serious notice of how they behave. The problem is stiction when the shocks are new, and this can effect how they behave with low speed compression (low frequency as you put it). Give them some time to settle in before making any drastic changes. Just my advice, great videos as usual Jack
Great advice 👍
Awesome video. Love this video series. Looking forward to when all the suspension is sorted and how the car rides. Keep up the good work.
Really good and informative Video Jack. Thank you
set the car up standard + soft, you will rattle the old girl apart if you try to get a "modern stiff ride" feel
that doesn't look like a matching set of tyres, how old are they? go for a set of 4 ferrari recommended boots, at the recommended pressures, that should improve things
keep it up young man
Jack, you are incredibly prolific...your excellent videos keep coming "fast and furious". I'm a bit of a car nut myself having had a Lotus Esprit S3, a Maserati GT coupe, a Lotus Esprit V8 and a Porsche Carrera S4 roadster (I still have the Lotus V8 and the Porsche).....but I must admit that I would not have had the saintly patience that you've displayed with the Ferrari 308 "Influenzo"...... I probably would have "lost it" and burned the damned thing to the ground. Keep the good stuff coming Jack....and I love that Alfa, especially the engine....I don't think one could be found here in the US though. Cheers, Fred
Jack you didn’t mention what make the coilovers are. Cheap ones are usually hopeless and simply a way for “stance” boys to wind the car up and down.
If they’re cheap you should have done what someone suggested above and rebuilt the factory dampers.
Every car I’ve owned or driven that we’ve swapped out the factory stuff for KWV3s or Ohlins, has been hugely improved. They usually glide the bumps and ride really well whilst still reducing body roll by a massive amount.
What are the ones you’ve fitted? I don’t recognise the colour scheme of them.
Made my day to see an Infuenzo video in my inbox!
Jack good to see Inflenzo driving around and new shocks and springs k hope you sort them out
Keep driving it for a couple of months, until the new coilovers are fully settled, then do some more adjustments. A bit of patience, I think it'll be fine. A bit of tweaking on the rear, and see if you need to adjust the front, too - if you get understeer.
Maybe the Influenzo just resists your enhancements because, from its standpoint, "you can't improve on perfection"! 😁 Anyway, I certainly am glad to hear that the engine seems to be sorted.
If anything, the InflueENZO proves that not even Ferraris are perfect.
Have you got a matched set of premium tyres on that are of recent manufacture? Tyres make the biggest difference to any vehicle, & are very often overlooked .
Yeah, he's been repairing a Ferrari for over a year and runs mismatched Chinese tyres.
Yes they are good Pirelli’s..
Ah good to see Lou Trottier, missing his updates, but we know he's busy
Congratulations on the 100K subscribers, onwards and upwards!!
When adjusting the shocks, you want to drive the car on a bumpy road. You want the dampers to suck the bumps up. If it is bouncy over bumps in the rear or the front, Go one click up on both dampers and drive it some more. You are tightening up the dampers. It takes time in the seat and you will get where you are happy and the suspension just sucks up the bumps.
Been enjoying following Lou as well
Jack - Always count/measure your damping adjustments from full damping (Ie Hard/Slow), or adjuster screwed all the way IN and count the turns backing off. The dampers will have variation between them particularly at full open/least damping. The above method is the standard way for any damper, be it, automotive/bike/MX etc to give the best chance of getting balance between your settings left to right.
Thank you! That is a very good point. I did mine from full open..
The Forth Bridge comes to mind!
These are Uber sensitive to camber .Get the shims and do the geo .The Hunter has the specs on its system.Front tracking needs to be spot on for the tyre width running too .Put the ride back to OEM otherwise any geo isn’t gonna get it spot on .They are totally different once set up .Talking from experience on a GT 4 .
Really enjoy your videos Jack - the 308 purchase is what started me watching. But I do find it amazing when you (and others) buy a car from one, if not the, most successful and famous sports car companies in the world and then assume you can drastically improve on what Ferrari can do just by throwing on some aftermarket DAMPERS. As other people have said - getting the original dampers rebuilt (they are Konis after all) with some new standard springs would have been the way to go.
Yes am gobsmacked by Jacks naivety with this one.
How about looking at corner weights, now you have adjustable spring platforms? And as mentioned elsewhere , keep the ride height stock, the geometry has been engineered to work in the road that way.
So close to 100k now jack. You should have 10x that buddy.
Everyone needs a good mate like Anton
A couple of things. I'm a little concerned with the talk of putting the shocks in the other way up. It's not a bad thing, and actually can be an improvement, but it's worth knowing that you will lose the blow-off valves which are there for large forces like potholes. I don't much care for them in principle as they make the shocks non-linear with force, reducing the force at the contact patch, and ideally they should be there only to keep the forces below what might cause structural damage. Reversing the shock can give you more linear behaviour and, with that, better steady state lateral grip. The other thing I'd like to know is whether the spring rates are the same as the originals and the change in length would suggest they are not. I doubt there's much wrong with the original springs and it may be worth putting the old springs on the new shocks. Sorry to add to your potential workload but it is probably worth trying to get the best you can from the components you've got.
I'm sure there's plenty of advice on Ferrari forums for what the best handling setup specs are but one place you might ask is Lotusbits. Obviously they know all about Lotus handling, which was very much ahead of Ferrari in this era, but also Mike has (or had) a 308 so may have come across the same things and found a solution to them.
Keep them coming, Jack. We love this car!
Great to see the progress Jack!
It's gonna be interesting to see what the final result, after the final setup, is. I hope it's worth it. ..and am happy that more content on this car is coming :)
I miss this car, Always so good to see. It's nice to see she is running much better now.
Right, it is good that "we" found that stripped bolt.
Jack Jack Jack… I just love the InfluEnzo videos! Keep up the great work!
I recently changed to some coilovers and in my case I noticed it needed about 1000km to settle. The ride quality improved a lot over this time. Not sure how many km’s you did but this might also play a role. It would also be interesting to hear if you have similar experiences.
Great update on the car!Nice video!cheers!
Haha, I bet you got quite a few strange looks driving it with the top off in that weather. I've done the same in 3 degrees weather in my own car, the look of bewilderment on people's faces is hilarious. 😂
Thanks Jack, seeing a Ferrari in winter with the roof off should have made people smile! Geo is a lost art, a proper setup should transform the car! 🙏🙏
Enjoy the tweaking!
Thanks buddy 😊
Still so pleased you were able to sort that engine :)
Unless your old shocks were totally shagged out, the benefits (if any) of what you are doing here will be vey difficult to quantify in my opinion. The 308 is great handling car to begin with. Then you have to Feck about with ride height and corner weighting and then get the shims to get the geometry sorted and may even make it handle worse than before.
You could spend thousands and only knock off a quarter off a second lap time . I'd have just replaced like for like and then left more time and money to sort out the myriad of other issues you have
I think you've been spoilt by the ride in the Elise - Elise ride is so much better than most people who have never been in one would believe.
I think that at this point, it’s fair to say that using “Cheap Ferrari” in your title is an outright lie 😂
Some people are obnoxious
😂😂😂😂😂
I saw your "cheap" buy haha 2 years ago almost live. A great hook for me as I have had similar buys on a smaller scale as have many. Glad to fall into this today. 2years of interest. Grazie Mille.
There's an old saying amongst Ferrari owners:
"The most expensive Ferrari to own, is the cheapest Ferrari you can buy"
@@4rephill to a degree, but most of the repairs done so far are age-based, so a theoretically better car would need a lot of the same work anyway. If the maintenance costs are the same, might as well spend less up front.
Maybe a corner weight adjustment before the complete alignment (geo).
I also found that when I put KV1s on the GTA, the town driving suffered a fair bit. Its far better on the open road, much more composed coming into and, driving out of dips. It just settles much quicker.
In town though, over the "High frequency" stuff you mention, it's terrible.
The roads currently are also the worst they've ever been imv
I would expect that the ride will improve considerably after the first thousand miles or so. Whin the coil overs have worn in a bit.
lowered car, so springs will be a higher rate. Unlikely the dampers would have been properly valved to suit. Standard Koni valving will be too hard on low speed compression, which makes the litle bumps felt.
I have a 928S4 with essentially Cup racing spring rates, 1000lb front /650 rear vs std 300 front. Koni re-valved the dampers with emphasis on low speed ride . Amazing ride quality vs the std valving they came with. Small bumps are not felt, better than our std Cayenne, kust not enough travel for large bumps...always a compromise.
So go chat to the local Koni or suspension expert near you, as valving to suit makes a huge difference....well it did for me 🙂
After Magnum P.I the Influenza is thee #308 gts on this rock 🌎 🎸 YEEEEEEHAAAAA 🤠💯🇬🇧🤟🙏
This is like an iconic series now. Fantastic!
Did you consider having the original coil overs overhauled? I sent my Konis to SP Suspension and they came back like new - even the springs were freshly powder coated.
great to see the influenzo giving you adjustment issues only, rather than not working ones...
100k here we come!!
nice opportunity to send the original shocks back to Koni in the netherlands for a rebuild.
Thought same. Could resell for more than new not practically adjustable ones.
Congratulations on the 100K!
Red, flighty, Italian thing. Nice to see it again. I’d never admit it, but I’d love to have one in the garage.
So good to see the Influenzo again!
Hi Jack. It was great to see both you and Lou "talking shop" together. Cheers!:)
Cheers Jack, always great to see how things are going with your Ferrari 👍👍.
Maybe you are trying to get it to feel like a Lotus, but I am sure it’s character will grow on you. Nice video.
Love your vids jack hope your are well mate Si from Bath
Thanks buddy, die you’re doing well!
Despite the struggles, time and money spent on this car I have little doubt you will recoup most if not all of your 'losses' should you sell it one day. It's a lovely little car, plus it has that Number 27 provenance! Not just any old 308.
I realise this is not really comparing like with like but when installing a suspension kit on my 1.1 Fiesta 😂, I was rather disappointed how it felt when I first drove it. After I had done about 500 miles the handle had much improved! Just saying.
Seems like it's really getting there now. Hopefully you'll be able to have a great summer with the car this year.
Jack. A great video and so good to see the 308 slowly coming to form.
Great to see some Influenzo content again, as it was that that got me to subscribe to your channel. Now it's looking like it's finally sorted, how about a European road trip in it?
Mods I’d like on my 328. Drop the seat chassis rails an inch (2 inches would be better) so I can fit into it. Upgrade the air conditioning, bigger evaporator fan? Fit power steering.
nice to see the 308🚗 Again!
Great stuff Jack
Great to see more influenzo content. Only one complaint - it’s not an influenzo video unless you break something 😂