CGC REHOLDER SCAM! How the SCAMMER did and how CGC could prevent it from happening again.
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- #cgc #scam #cgccomics
In this video, I talk about the recent CGC Reholder Scam, my take on how the scammer did it, and how CGC could prevent it from happening again. Check out the videos below from Swagglehaus and Automatic Comics to get the background on the scam.
Swagglehaus Comics: • BREAKING NEWS! Comic B...
Automatic Comics: • CGC Reholder Scam!!! I...
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Hey, hoping that you can reply to is suggestion for everyone scammed by this seller. CGC has already given people a way out. I remember a video regarding a HULK 181 missing value stamp that was in an old CGC blue label. When the person cracked the book out and found the marvel value stamp missing he spoke with CGC about the issue. CGC said that if he had sent the book into them and they found the issue that they (CGC) would be on the hook. So that’s what buyers, who believe their book(s) have issues, need to do. Send these books back into CGC. If CGC finds any issues, within the blue label like restoration or missing pieces or pages, CGC should be giving that person the FMV of the book. Let me know if you think that it’s a good suggestion. Either way CGC has to do the right thing.
Thanks for the comment. I’m going to pin it. One of the challenges I see is that CGC really doesn’t take a good look at books when they reholder them. My guess is that if that Hulk 181 was sent in for a reholder it would have still come back as a blue label. The volume of these reholder books is just too big. To find ‘new’ defects, the books would have to be graded again. On the other hand, I often include notes with my submissions, and I suppose collectors could resubmit their books with a note saying please reevaluate grade due to suspected fraud or something like that.
I agree, reholders should be given a look to ensure the grade is right and no issues. Books can still be damaged in holders. The community has already identified some books in the scam. Let those buyers send the books back to CGC and report on what CGC does. CGC should do the right thing.
A lot easier way to resolve this issue is to tag the inner seal with the CGC number. That way when a reholder comes in they would know if the book was swapped.
Good point. I’m curious what CGC will do!
Is it possible to Laser etch the holder? Or maybe holographic stickers to detect seal breakage?
Good ideas! I'm curious what CGC will decide to do!@@vinnyboomba9948
@@vinnyboomba9948that was my idea exactly plus the CGC number on the tamper proof sticker wouldn't hurt. Id be all for it. Honestly I'm surprised CGC hasn't had this problem before now but personally I blame all the mark jewelers and newsstand hype.
Personally, I’ve always thought Mark Jewelers variants were dumb.
I like your idea. I just subscribed.
Thanks! Welcome to the channel!
I don't think they need to have any ability to swap cases to pull this off. All they need to do is open the case enough to remove and swap the label. Now, you are going to say "but that would damage the case" which would be correct at least some of the time and the others, as long as they are careful, would have minor damage at most. My bet is that cgc has never inspected the cases that are sent in for reholder and that is the flaw in the system this scammer exploited. As long as the case is not obviously damaged, it would pass right though. In fact, I very much doubt that the people cracking the books out of the case are graders or high level people at cgc as it would be a waste of their time. More than likely that is the job of a new or low level employee since cracking them out of the case is simple and easy to quickly teach someone. That's my theory. Keep up the great videos Jamie!
Thanks for the comment. This makes sense. I wonder if this scanner has any books at CGC right now? I’d love to see what they find!
You hit it right on the money. if a book is a reholder it should be regraded. The ones that are broken out by CGC to be signed are regraded so why the pass on basic reholder? So given current reholder rules does this now mean signed books that got a lower grade due to the regrade after signing can be honored back at the higher grade it had before being signed? I can see this turning into a class action. CGC needs to address it quickly.
Agree 1000% 😎🍻
RFID tags inserted inside the books would be a pretty quick fix.
Good idea!
The reasons I'm still hesitant to invest in CGC books is the high likelihood of fraud, and the fact that casing a book does not completely stop the aging process. I've also never understood how a book can keep its grade, regardless of the type of case it's in, because as you mentioned, the book and staples will continue to degrade with the passage of time, causing the book to eventually lose its original grade. I not only think that it's a non-argument that requiring a new grading is necessary when a book is re-cased, but I also put out there that giving the grade an expiration date might also be something CGC should consider. Something like 10, maybe 20 years (I'm no expert on the degradation of comics over time), with maybe special pricing for regrading/repackaging expired books. With all the recent issues with the grading industry in general, tightening things up can only make it more respectable.
Thanks! This a great comment. As much as I would hate to have my GA comics regraded, I think the least CGC should do is regrade reholder books! Happy holidays!
For preservation, comic books need to be stored in optimal conditions. Doesn't matter if it's in a slab or mylar sleeve, it's light and changes in humidity that may age a book. I've never understood folks who display their comic books on walls!
Yes, comic books will definitely age if not stored properly. CGC cases themselves are not UV protected so the potential for sun fading if displayed is also a potential concern.@@middleman9183
The problem with getting rid of the reholdering processes. Of course, the fact that all grading companies recommend you get a updated case every 10 years or so. Would you really rather chance at the grade goes down every 10 years just because you want to keep your book preserved? I know I've been doing it for that reason.
Yes, I think the grading companies also make good money on the reholder fees, especially for high value books. 🙂
Now, if you ship it USPS, isn’t that fraud on a Federal Offense?
I think it may be!
Does not matter if it's USPS, UPS, or any of the others. A Federal Crime occurs when it becomes interstate. If the crime occurred over state lines to a different state, or multiple states, then it's Federal jurisdiction. Who every did this is looking at serious charges. Forgery, Wire Fraud, and conspiracy to commit fraud (if 2 or more people are involved) this could be 30 year's to life. Each book would count as a separate charge/indictment. Federal Prisoners are not eligible for parole like state prisonsers. They must serve 85% of said sentence , reducing it by getting good time credits. I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI isn't already involved.
@@Fin-gj2th Yikes! Sucks to be the CGC scammer!
@DragonInkComics it's gonna be a slow process. I don't think people understand this that have never be to prison before. Lol. Or dealt with the legal system. Slowly, but first the civil lawsuits happen. Then as time passes, and the outcome of the civil lawsuits end in a unfavorable manner, then the criminal side will be commenced. It's going to take 2 years or so for this to play out.
@@Fin-gj2th 😳😱😧
CBCS used to heat seal the label to the inner well thereby eliminating the seperation of the label from the book. This was changed when they introduced their new labels. Maybe they should bring it back and CGC should adopt something similar.
Great idea! This recommendation would definitely curtail similar shenanigans!
I had sent in a bunch of books that needed new cases because of cracks and chips in the case and they sent me an email saying that the book needed to be re-graded. I did the same with Cbcs and PGX. And the same result needed to be re-graded.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I've not had this happen before.
I agree! Re-assess, NOT re-holder.
Nice video, I was not aware this had happened. I have discovered another way this could be accomplished but will not talk about it publicly for obvious reasons. I assume it would be noticed though, since any method should cause noticeable damage to a case (but you still have to be vigilant to see it). However, I'm sure it would be possible to slip it a book through the cracks, especially if you sent several reholders that were legit along with the fraud.
Thanks for sharing!
I think you could be on to something with your idea. The whole issue is just another thing people have to watch out for in the crazy world of comics. Too much money and potential for even more for scammers to ignore.
Yep! When switching a label and get a reholder = thousands of dollars get ready for human trash to make an appearance. 😆
From what I have been reading this has been going on for awhile..😮
Ugh! I feel more confident buying golden age and rare books for this reason. So much harder to pull something like this!
Couldn't the scheme be even more nefarious by recycling the high valued book over and over and over again?
Ugh! I didn’t even think of that! What a mess! I’m sure CGC is investigating this mess, but we may never know the extent of the crime.
CGC already has a caveat that books sent in for reholder are subject to regrading since there could be damage to the book when the damage to the slab occurred. Also, I don't think the scammer had to have inner wells. I think he/she slipped the higher grade label into a lower grade slab that--even though it might have damage--looked untampered with to get CGC to re-encapsulate it. Then, after having the lower-grade book reholdered in the higher-grade slab, he/she could send the real high-grade book in for grading--thus, having two high-grade blue label books to sell.
Thanks for the comment. I think you’re probably right. It’s easier just to replace the label and hope the damage goes unnoticed. I know on CGC’s website they talk about reholder books being subject to regrading. I guess I question how often this happens. Happy holidays!
I don’t think they need to be that careful, I think that they just resubmitted it as a cracked case for a reholder! It’s not like the person was using book too far off the grade! Example, 8.5 qualified for a 9.0 universal! I’ve sent in cracked cases, accidents happen. CGC keeps the inner well intact, grab a new label and seal it. Most criminals aren’t masterminds, they are opportunists…..
Thanks for the comment. I tend to agree. Most criminals are not masterminds simply anti-social opportunists. A few people who have responded to this video mentioned adding the barcode to the inner well. That might help.
Just so you know, I am so proud of you in your transition, I’ve been seeing you since Covid(as most of us have) and I want to let you know I appreciate your courage and I hope you don’t get any hate in “your progress “ you are adored and loved! You are an inspiration to people of every walk of life in your shoes! Please keep being you!!
@@jotcollectiblesThat means a lot to me. 🤶 I’ve been blessed to have a lot of support and I appreciate your kindness and understanding. Sending you my warmest regards and well wishes. ❤
I'm sorry, but your solution seems reasonable in theory. However, it is not practical to implement in reality. I have doubts that many people would be willing to submit their resubmitted graded books once again. (Many would not know that their books were resubmitted.) That would be too much bother and time for the owner of the product, and you can add expenses to that list for CGC. Happy Holiday to all.
Thanks for the comment! I’m curious how CGC ultimately deals with this situation.
I don't think the scammer even needs access to holders or inner sleeves. They just need to be able to remove the label or the books from slabs he's damaged on purpose and swap those around. If this doesn't involve an inside man at CGC then they might as well shut up shop because their certified guarentee means nothing anymore. We all knew that the census count on books below 9.8 was dubious because of the CPR happening all the time, but now 9.8's mean nothing as well. It's been said on some other channels that there is proof out there that the scammer has been doing this since 2011... how can we trust grades/grading companies anymore??
@@padbearj3154 I’m curious what CGC says about it. Trust in their product is shaken.
I just viewed your video, and your reform suggestion is nearly the same as a suggestion I made to a friend this morning. Specifically, my suggestion was that CGC should stop doing reholder if. Having a mandatory regrading, your suggestion, for any re-encapsulating, is basically the same thing just stated differently. And this policy change should happen immediately. The only thing CGC is really selling to the customers is trust. And once trust is gone, they have nothing. As for what they will do first, the cynic in me says it will be to talk to their lawyers. But I hope they would go to work just as quickly on a solution, and the one you and I propose would be simple and easy to implement. By the way, COMOCOMICS put out an excellent video about this scam today too. I’m not affiliated with them in any way although I do live in the same city.
Thanks for your comment! 😎 I’ll check out the vid.
💯 correct!! the whole idea of re holder will be out the door now due to this disgusting fraudulent act from the seller or sellers involved. If you want a re holder it wil have to be properly graded again to make sure the book is what it is now. Said how it’s gotten this way now. But I agree it’s the only way to be certain what a buyer is getting is legit and not a swapped book inside a label saying a different grade. Spot on Jamie
Thanks! Due to a bunch of greedy, good-for-nothing scammers, CGC might have make some significant changes.