I can remember buying soldier of fortune magazine as young teenager and reading Colonel Coopers articles on handgun techniques and being wide eyed looking at his holstered cocked and locked 1911 . It was like the coolest thing I ever seen growing up in a gunless environment.
A lot of people who never lived in those days prior and during cooper's development of his pistol craft concept make the mistake of too frivolously dismiss his techniques and concepts because they fail to comprehend that pistol "fighting" concepts and techniques were going through a major evolution back then thanks to the pioneering progress being pushed by none other than Jeff Cooper. Before Cooper all there was available was one handed static bullseye target shooting and heavily investment of time and ammo to develop and maintain single hand point shooting with out using sights to refer for "fighting" with a pistol. It's only natural and healthy that the pistol craft he was the original catalyst for continued unabated as he faded out of the scene with age and eventual death. His well thought out fundamental concepts never really needed change over the decades so much as subtle tweeks and refinements in techniques that have proven themselves in competition and real world experience in the field. Bottom line is that before Jeff Cooper no one was doing anything to seriously drag pistol (more like the lack there of) craft kicking and screaming out of the eighteenth century and into the real world conditions of seriously using the pistol as a gun fighting tool into the twentieth century. Up until Jeff the pistol was never seriously regarded as a fighting weapon in it's own right. That is a relatively new concept that only in recent decades seems commonly understood thanks to Jeff Cooper.
As a young Marine back in 1995 I took leave and headed to Gunsite to get some training that simply was not available in the Corps. Colonel Cooper likely didn't spend much time teaching by that point. But he saw me and my buddy and came up to say hi. He knew a Marine when he saw one. Ended up spending a couple of hours talking to a couple of dumb Lance Corporals and passing on some knowledge that was invaluable. As time has progressed the "modern technique" isn't all that modern. The weaver stance is a part of history, stand and deliver tactics are thankfully no longer considered to be adequate. If he were still here the Colonel would love what pistol.shootimg has become. I doubt he'd approve of the new service pistol, doubtful be would become a fan of plastic guns. But he would evolve. If he was wandering the range today he'd probably have a 2011 in 9mm on his hip. And he would still ensure that anyone that wanted it could bet the best training out there. And I'm sure he would still be telling everyone how great the scout rifle is.
All of that, plus he might get excited over some of these lighter AR-10s that exist now. He'd also be glad to hear that the U.S. infantry are finally replacing the 5.56 with a serious rifle round.
No, we've had a high-capacity single-action since 1935, Browning P35, so a high capacity in 9mm would not be new to him. All things being equal the 9 will always be a smaller caliber. During the time I instructed with him we had access to high-cap .45s and never saw the need. Don't misunderstand, he wouldn't have been hyper-critical of someone carrying a 2011 but he would question the need for the higher capacity when that was never an issue in the past and many/all of the current shootings captured on video seem to suggest that a well-trained man/woman (LAPD Toni McBride, etc.) solves the problem with about the same number of rounds as those in the past.
When I went to Jeff's classroom I had a Smith and Wesson 19 but I wanted a 1911 and I remember I asked him for advice on what gun is best and he advised me to buy a Colt 1911 gold cup and after I got home I got me one, Jeff had a 1911 Colt he called it - pinto - the top was blue and the frame was stainless and he had it put on adjustable sights
My 1974 gunfight took place after 6 PM in late November on a dark outdoor parking lot. I could not see the sights on my issued Colt DS but I could see the suspect, and managed to get four center mass hits inside 5 yards. I fired 12 shots, reloading under fire, but am not sure which of the 12 hit their mark. I did have a flashlight but did not have time to grab it before the suspect’s rounds came my way.
That flashlight business, he just up-ended 40 years of me doing it wrong. And I need a new light. Oh well. Wish I could've studied with him, these vids are the next best thing, so thanks, poster, we love these!
@@rifleshooterchannel208 but that's today, with the technology of the day it was very difficult to get usable light into a small enough package to fix to a handgun. Relatively new concept as we went into Iraq with duct-taped maglites on M16s.
CCW and 3 gun are great, but this was a different time. Most places did not allow handguns to be carried, so most of the training was around service sized weapons, not mouse guns. Today we have small guns that shoot 9mm, and a lot of decently trimmed 9s, to support the CCW world. 3 gun seems to teach people to shoot as though they were running a machine gun. Back then it was a one shot world, or you might have to shoot till things quieted down, but they were shooting guns that we supposed to get it done in one shot, even in winter. Cooper also had military training. He realized that if you run people who have never "seen the elephant" through Delta level training, they may goof it up when the training is called for. But a properly trained person with highly simplified rules will quite likely get through their first encounter. It isn't about outfighting Delta (at least not yet), it is about being cool and decisive when the crack head shows up. You don't need thousand round training sessions to get that done. But Cooper set the standard along with a few other schools. That left the field open in a way where the new schools often added ever more complicated concepts to prove their worth.
To much bs these days with gun tubers. Love this. Just down to the point with no crap about this is why tier one units do it this way. Cause it’s tactical and tactical is the best way isn’t it. Lol.
Biggest difference in the price is volume of ammo manufactured. Military and Fed agency contracts equals LOTS of rounds.... an advantage the .45 lost when the 9 was adopted.
Col. Cooper is wearing a gun without a tactical gun belt and a non retention holster? How dare he? On a serious note, Cooper was a man's man and I am sure that he was perfectly confident in his carry style and gear.
They found out pretty quickly that blued finishes do a poor job of resisting rust. However, the stainless steel of the time was known to gall or grind against itself when used in handguns. So the compromise was a stainless steel frame for rust resistance with a blued carbon steel slide to prevent galling.
@@patrickclark4607 this was also long before the days of cerakote, DLC, nitride, etc. Nickel plating and hard chrome existed, but were expensive and time-consuming.
And another way of looking at it is the stainless did not rust, while the blued slide was less conspicuous and supported a better sight picture. I see more pistols these days that are the reverse pattern with silver over black, and that I do not get.
When you're dealing with responsible people, it can work. In our current, "This product is known to cause Cancer in the state of California" society, we've allowed folks to be irresponsible and stupid for too long to make it work.
Guy taking notes: 'yellow cannot be seen against a lion, ok for bears though'.......WTF, this is just a way for middle aged guys to do something on a weekend besides the yardwork. I know....
Isosceles was taught initially in the 20s through the early 70s. Jack weaver introduced the weaver stance in the mid 70s which replaced Isosceles. Why everyone went back to the old way I have no idea. I still shoot weaver, it's the way I was taught and it works for me.
Do 1911's have weak recoil springs? My Glock has a 17# and my Springfield XDM an 18#. There's no way I can press the slides back from the front far enough to stick my index finger in the chambers, without risking getting my fingertip cut off. I have to grasp the slide to chamber check. Forget that "press" check business.
1911s obviously don't have weak springs...perhaps light springs is a better term. A light spring is ok for standard ammo, the frame of the gun absorbs more of the shock so for guns that can shoot P+ ammo you end up with stronger springs, just another reason P+ isn't that practical and it makes the gun less usable. Smaller calibers also have lighter springs, 9mm and you might only have a 10-12lb spring while a .45 might have a 20lb spring. 10lb isn't much more than a stiff trigger. If 20-30ms slower cycle time is ok by you....swapping springs may be something to try.
@@Wingnut353 - So far, so good with the stock springs as far as recoil management goes. I hear that I will probably need to increase the # with hotter loads, but I will wait till I can feel it in the guns before I do. I think a hiviz follower is better for chamber checks than sticking fingers in there. It's faster and safer, and works in all but deep darkness.
The hammer spring, which is fully cocked on a single action only pistol, provides a lot of resistance to the slide being pulled back when it is *not* cocked. So if the hammer is back, virtually all tension is taken off that spring and the slide won’t have to fight it when it’s being pulled back.
With the 1911s in this video, they are government profile and do not have a guide rod like other conventional handguns like glocks. You can’t do the “finger press check” on this video with handguns with guide rods. Now a days you can do press checks much safer with the front of the slide without risking your fingers in front of the muzzle
in his classroom presentations he is loading and unloading his pistol, and going thru unnecessary procedures with live ammo. Just an opportunity for a mishap even thought he is an expert, there is a better way to demo'.
I've heard a lot about Jeff Cooper and how he's basically a firearm god, let's see what he says... Ah yes, the 24 Lbs double action trigger pull of a pistol approved after a grueling selection process.... NO! The average double action trigger pull of the m9 was indeed damn heavy at 11Lbs, but come on... It also has somewhere between 5 and 6 Lbs trigger pull in single action. I get why he's respected but making up ridiculous numbers to shit on whatever guns he doesn't like is just shameful. It might not have been easy to verify those claims immediately back when he filmed this (still easy enough to do it) but NOBODY with two brain cells to rub together would ever believe a 24 pound trigger pull in an extraordinarily successful pistol.
I used to think his teaching was ahead of its time; I've come to realize it's actually timeless.
Very well said, I agree.
He’s a great communicator, there’s a lot of us that know these things but can’t communicate as well for whatever reasons.
I can remember buying soldier of fortune magazine as young teenager and reading Colonel Coopers articles on handgun techniques and being wide eyed looking at his holstered cocked and locked 1911 . It was like the coolest thing I ever seen growing up in a gunless environment.
A lot of people who never lived in those days prior and during cooper's development of his pistol craft concept make the mistake of too frivolously dismiss his techniques and concepts because they fail to comprehend that pistol "fighting" concepts and techniques were going through a major evolution back then thanks to the pioneering progress being pushed by none other than Jeff Cooper. Before Cooper all there was available was one handed static bullseye target shooting and heavily investment of time and ammo to develop and maintain single hand point shooting with out using sights to refer for "fighting" with a pistol.
It's only natural and healthy that the pistol craft he was the original catalyst for continued unabated as he faded out of the scene with age and eventual death. His well thought out fundamental concepts never really needed change over the decades so much as subtle tweeks and refinements in techniques that have proven themselves in competition and real world experience in the field.
Bottom line is that before Jeff Cooper no one was doing anything to seriously drag pistol (more like the lack there of) craft kicking and screaming out of the eighteenth century and into the real world conditions of seriously using the pistol as a gun fighting tool into the twentieth century. Up until Jeff the pistol was never seriously regarded as a fighting weapon in it's own right. That is a relatively new concept that only in recent decades seems commonly understood thanks to Jeff Cooper.
As a young Marine back in 1995 I took leave and headed to Gunsite to get some training that simply was not available in the Corps. Colonel Cooper likely didn't spend much time teaching by that point. But he saw me and my buddy and came up to say hi. He knew a Marine when he saw one. Ended up spending a couple of hours talking to a couple of dumb Lance Corporals and passing on some knowledge that was invaluable. As time has progressed the "modern technique" isn't all that modern. The weaver stance is a part of history, stand and deliver tactics are thankfully no longer considered to be adequate. If he were still here the Colonel would love what pistol.shootimg has become. I doubt he'd approve of the new service pistol, doubtful be would become a fan of plastic guns. But he would evolve. If he was wandering the range today he'd probably have a 2011 in 9mm on his hip. And he would still ensure that anyone that wanted it could bet the best training out there.
And I'm sure he would still be telling everyone how great the scout rifle is.
All of that, plus he might get excited over some of these lighter AR-10s that exist now. He'd also be glad to hear that the U.S. infantry are finally replacing the 5.56 with a serious rifle round.
No, we've had a high-capacity single-action since 1935, Browning P35, so a high capacity in 9mm would not be new to him. All things being equal the 9 will always be a smaller caliber. During the time I instructed with him we had access to high-cap .45s and never saw the need. Don't misunderstand, he wouldn't have been hyper-critical of someone carrying a 2011 but he would question the need for the higher capacity when that was never an issue in the past and many/all of the current shootings captured on video seem to suggest that a well-trained man/woman (LAPD Toni McBride, etc.) solves the problem with about the same number of rounds as those in the past.
When I went to Jeff's classroom I had a Smith and Wesson 19 but I wanted a 1911 and I remember I asked him for advice on what gun is best and he advised me to buy a Colt 1911 gold cup and after I got home I got me one, Jeff had a 1911 Colt he called it - pinto - the top was blue and the frame was stainless and he had it put on adjustable sights
Any idea why he named it Pinto?
When I bought Guns and Mmo in the 70s and 80s I read two articles: Sixguns by Keith and Cooper on Handguns. I learned a lot from both of them.
Grew up and learned everything from Jeff Cooper. Nothing much has changed. Awsome
Remember reading his books and later watching his videos,he made so much sense it was uncanny.
My 1974 gunfight took place after 6 PM in late November on a dark outdoor parking lot. I could not see the sights on my issued Colt DS but I could see the suspect, and managed to get four center mass hits inside 5 yards. I fired 12 shots, reloading under fire, but am not sure which of the 12 hit their mark. I did have a flashlight but did not have time to grab it before the suspect’s rounds came my way.
Was the reload with a speedloader?
That flashlight business, he just up-ended 40 years of me doing it wrong. And I need a new light. Oh well. Wish I could've studied with him, these vids are the next best thing, so thanks, poster, we love these!
Mount a light to the gun, problem solved.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 but that's today, with the technology of the day it was very difficult to get usable light into a small enough package to fix to a handgun. Relatively new concept as we went into Iraq with duct-taped maglites on M16s.
Keep in mind that the instructor is doing all of this with a loaded piece. They would never get away with that today.
I loved his take on adjusting fixed sights. I know from experience it can be tricky. I use the grip of a screw driver.
Thanks Jeff
Uncle Scotty cameo!
I love the sound of press checks.
CCW and 3 gun are great, but this was a different time. Most places did not allow handguns to be carried, so most of the training was around service sized weapons, not mouse guns. Today we have small guns that shoot 9mm, and a lot of decently trimmed 9s, to support the CCW world. 3 gun seems to teach people to shoot as though they were running a machine gun. Back then it was a one shot world, or you might have to shoot till things quieted down, but they were shooting guns that we supposed to get it done in one shot, even in winter.
Cooper also had military training. He realized that if you run people who have never "seen the elephant" through Delta level training, they may goof it up when the training is called for. But a properly trained person with highly simplified rules will quite likely get through their first encounter. It isn't about outfighting Delta (at least not yet), it is about being cool and decisive when the crack head shows up. You don't need thousand round training sessions to get that done.
But Cooper set the standard along with a few other schools. That left the field open in a way where the new schools often added ever more complicated concepts to prove their worth.
So glad I'm part of the Raven family
USMC Co. Jeff Cooper wrote several very good books. Find them and read them.
To much bs these days with gun tubers. Love this. Just down to the point with no crap about this is why tier one units do it this way. Cause it’s tactical and tactical is the best way isn’t it. Lol.
Very little of this is dated. Aside from the clothes anyway.
That flashlight! Colonel Cooper would be pleased with today's offerings.
I guess I’ve got to buy new clothes
@@willy4018 You're cool just the way you are.
whoa bro this is gold
Were there made any films of the rifle lection,like his Scout,Draggon, Baby,
One of the subjects I like is what Jeff Cooper did is inventing the 10mm auto caliber pistol round. I prefer Glock 20 model Gen 3 autoloader pistol.
Gen4 for me, but yeah, that man was a visionary with this caliber.
Jake Stockton I have two revolvers one in .357 Magnum and one in .44 Magnum!
Biggest difference in the price is volume of ammo manufactured. Military and Fed agency contracts equals LOTS of rounds.... an advantage the .45 lost when the 9 was adopted.
Col. Cooper is wearing a gun without a tactical gun belt and a non retention holster? How dare he? On a serious note, Cooper was a man's man and I am sure that he was perfectly confident in his carry style and gear.
All that gun handling, loaded and unloaded. Without apparant or conscious effort, the muzzle never once covered the class.
Did he just push tye slide back with the tip of his finger?
No way mine does that.
This guy was something
i wonder what year this was filmed? if only he could see all of the doodads and gadgets we have for our pistols now haha
Called the Springfield of the time. A replica Colt. 😄
Because it was.
By that point, he'd been a regular Colt customer for almost forty years.
Where do you get silver bullets?
Duh, at Were-mart!
winchester silver tip hallow point !lo
Minutemanammo
I went into serious handgunning reading his articles in Guns &Ammo magazine.
That is one nice looking Colt he has.
Pachmyer Custom
Anyone know why Jeff ran a black slide and stainless frame? Louis seems to be running the same setup as well.
They found out pretty quickly that blued finishes do a poor job of resisting rust. However, the stainless steel of the time was known to gall or grind against itself when used in handguns. So the compromise was a stainless steel frame for rust resistance with a blued carbon steel slide to prevent galling.
@@mrflynn510 Nice thanks Josiah
@@patrickclark4607 this was also long before the days of cerakote, DLC, nitride, etc. Nickel plating and hard chrome existed, but were expensive and time-consuming.
@@mrflynn510 And nickle flaked off, wasn't hard as now.
And another way of looking at it is the stainless did not rust, while the blued slide was less conspicuous and supported a better sight picture. I see more pistols these days that are the reverse pattern with silver over black, and that I do not get.
Live ammo in a training classroom. Wow!
Imagine that! A lot less morons and "trained professionals" shooting themselves!
When you're dealing with responsible people, it can work. In our current, "This product is known to cause Cancer in the state of California" society, we've allowed folks to be irresponsible and stupid for too long to make it work.
@@scoutrifle6827 Ain't that the fucking truth! 👍
Back when everybody shot from the weaver position
3:20 24lb da Beretta pull bullshit. He's a legend 👍.
He certainly likes to hear himself talk, even when his words were lies.
Guy taking notes: 'yellow cannot be seen against a lion, ok for bears though'.......WTF, this is just a way for middle aged guys to do something on a weekend besides the yardwork. I know....
Golden
Jesus bless you .
They didn’t know what Isosceles was back then
Isosceles was taught initially in the 20s through the early 70s. Jack weaver introduced the weaver stance in the mid 70s which replaced Isosceles. Why everyone went back to the old way I have no idea. I still shoot weaver, it's the way I was taught and it works for me.
South african outi talking
Do 1911's have weak recoil springs? My Glock has a 17# and my Springfield XDM an 18#. There's no way I can press the slides back from the front far enough to stick my index finger in the chambers, without risking getting my fingertip cut off. I have to grasp the slide to chamber check. Forget that "press" check business.
1911s obviously don't have weak springs...perhaps light springs is a better term. A light spring is ok for standard ammo, the frame of the gun absorbs more of the shock so for guns that can shoot P+ ammo you end up with stronger springs, just another reason P+ isn't that practical and it makes the gun less usable. Smaller calibers also have lighter springs, 9mm and you might only have a 10-12lb spring while a .45 might have a 20lb spring. 10lb isn't much more than a stiff trigger. If 20-30ms slower cycle time is ok by you....swapping springs may be something to try.
@@Wingnut353 - So far, so good with the stock springs as far as recoil management goes. I hear that I will probably need to increase the # with hotter loads, but I will wait till I can feel it in the guns before I do.
I think a hiviz follower is better for chamber checks than sticking fingers in there. It's faster and safer, and works in all but deep darkness.
1911s typically have 16-18lb springs depending on the manufacturer, barrel length, etc.
The hammer spring, which is fully cocked on a single action only pistol, provides a lot of resistance to the slide being pulled back when it is *not* cocked.
So if the hammer is back, virtually all tension is taken off that spring and the slide won’t have to fight it when it’s being pulled back.
With the 1911s in this video, they are government profile and do not have a guide rod like other conventional handguns like glocks. You can’t do the “finger press check” on this video with handguns with guide rods. Now a days you can do press checks much safer with the front of the slide without risking your fingers in front of the muzzle
41:41 what’s so funny?
I'm astounded by the number of times he flags his glass with the muzzle
He was a blowhard what do you expect.
Rampin
@@rifleshooterchannel208 you speak out your ass.
@@kennethcurtis1856 That’s actually Cooper’s forte.
Berettas have never been 9lb single and 24lb double. More like 5lb single and 9lb double 😆
@Java Junkie i believe its the same parts and springs.
Cooper was a pompous ass, what do you expect?
Yes of course but he did not like the Beretta mod. 92 later adopted by the US
@@rifleshooterchannel208 that statement says more about you than him
@@toiletpaper5770 No not at all, you see how I made the statement specifically about Cooper?
Reading is hard, huh?
It was making me cringe when he kept flagging his hand from 21:54 and onward.
Don't worry. He can't shoot your panzy ass through the screen.
What a gut :-)
ug lee
in his classroom presentations he is loading and unloading his pistol, and going thru unnecessary procedures with live ammo. Just an opportunity for a mishap even thought he is an expert, there is a better way to demo'.
Oh shut up.
Yeah look at how many times his gun went off in the classroom portion of this video.
I've heard a lot about Jeff Cooper and how he's basically a firearm god, let's see what he says...
Ah yes, the 24 Lbs double action trigger pull of a pistol approved after a grueling selection process.... NO!
The average double action trigger pull of the m9 was indeed damn heavy at 11Lbs, but come on... It also has somewhere between 5 and 6 Lbs trigger pull in single action.
I get why he's respected but making up ridiculous numbers to shit on whatever guns he doesn't like is just shameful. It might not have been easy to verify those claims immediately back when he filmed this (still easy enough to do it) but NOBODY with two brain cells to rub together would ever believe a 24 pound trigger pull in an extraordinarily successful pistol.
He contributed a lot of what is seen as ordinary to pistol craft today. But he also had some blinding biases that he never got over.
Don't meet your heroes
You've never heard of hyperbole?
You won't cut yourself on any modern gun in normal use and no guns of that era had razor sharp edges exposed,this guy is a bit of a bs'er.
Lol. And you never ruined a coat lining did you. Or shot a Swenson 1911? Razor blade city
@@jmequineservices4766 1911,lol they are a outdated Fudd gun,and do not tell me how great they are i have carried and worked on many.
@@AR-GuidesAndMore so what,I have many older firearms,this guy is a bit of a blowhard like Elmer Keith. or was rather
@@paulscountry456 You're an ignorant person. You probably need someone to read this comment to you. You dumb ignorant person.
@@paulscountry456 1911s are great pistols, I couldn't care less how many you've carried and worked on.