I went to see It Ends With Us in theatres and as soon as I sat down, I got a flood warning, then the power went out twice, then the audio didn't play. Whatever god is out there was begging me to leave
Hey there was once a movie with three characters with my name & they all got brutally murdered simply because they loved croquet & yea & I don’t remember the third 😢. (Heehee that’s for the olds & the cool youngs, ofc I’m absolutely honored to share my name with one of the best movies of my adolescence…must see tho prob is problematic…oh yeah…definitely…but still a cinematic delight)
Something small that bugs me is that Ryle buying her lilies could have been a great bit of symbolism and foreshadowing if CoHo actually cared. While lilies can represent love, they’re also death flowers. Christians tend to use them for weddings, but they’re some of the most common funeral flowers too Ryle is extremely abusive and he has the potential to kill Lily. Him giving her flowers that symbolise both marriage and death could be a sign of the two sides that Colleen (incorrectly) thought she gave him - the gentle loving man vs the violent abuser. Lily, as a florist, should absolutely know about the usages of different flowers, but she’s just too caught up in the whirlwind of the toxic relationship to give it a second thought But no it was just a ‘her name’s Lily so he can give her lilies!’ joke and it’s disappointing
That would have been so interesting, like if Lily herself was so into flowers and maybe noticing the symbolisim. Now that I think about it, for a book with flowers and a Mc whose job is about them. I don't think we really get much about them.
How lovely of a plot point it would be if Lily occasionally recommended flower combination for customers after they explain their circumstance. A girl with an unspoken love? Lily gives her x flowers. A man wants to give his wife flowers after she just gave birth? Lily gives him something symbolizing new life/celebration. But for all of her knowledge on flowers and helping others express themselves, she doesn’t see the warning signs with Ryle. The gifted lilies, a bush of bleeding hearts that keep growing at his place, other ominous stuff like that, which enhances the foreshadowing. You’re right, that was a real miss for not using the language of flowers for a lady who owns a flower shop.
Oh wow, I wish they had gone with that symbolism. All they had to do was have Lily recall the lilies at her father's funeral as he gave them to her. That would have really highlighted the cycle and the possibility of death.
For any author wondering, I'm someone who doesn't care about content warnings and trust me, their presence has no affect on me at all. I scroll right by and don't even notice them. So put them in your books (and the sales page on online retailers) because they matter a lot to the people who want them and don't matter at all to people like me. They certainly don't "spoil" a book
for my first book, my publisher was like "we don't really DO content warnings" (this is a big 5). they do them now, but for a while it was definitely work to get it done. i always put them on my website, but they should definitely be in books as a rule. i know one concern is that book banners will use the content warnings get books banned. it's really a tough line to toe.
@@LilRonGalyeah it's difficult to push for stuff like this without bigots manipulating it to their advantage 🙄 I think a better angle would be to reframe it not as a matter of harm reduction, but a matter of politeness. Like it's just good manners to have content/trigger warnings, just like for movies & video games. It won't work on everyone ofc, but some folks will take to it if they're interested in ~civility~ but not.....u know, empathy toward survivors of DV situations 😒
As someone who reads a lot of internet fics (which are real writing, and I will fight people on this) the presence of Trigger Warnings or Content Warnings, doesn't affect me, but for people that it would affect, it's very nice, because, ignoring the human point of view of warning someone about this. From a marketing POV, someone literally getting triggered because you didn't tell them that the book talks about, say for example, abusive relationships, is not exactly good optics to put yourself in. As an author, it's the purpose of the profession to take someone through a journey, while that journey might be uncomfortable for some, I still want to take them there, I however, have lines that I don't want to cross and things that should be kept behind a vale, moreover, there are topics that need to be disclosed to readers, especially when marketing a book. (Like, marketing a romance book, whenever it's mostly focusing on domestic abuse. You kinda have to disclose some things, by requirement of marketing) Hell, I'm remembering this one author who frames her CWs in books in a very condescending way (just throwing a link that has the barebones of CWs for the book), but even that is better than none at all. It's not a good way, but it's better than nothing whatsoever.
Especially for the more violent ones. If those sorts of warnings 'spoil' your book, it means you're relying on the shock value of such events--which is BAD WRITING.
I've seen so many reviews of this book, but I only just realized that Lily tells Ryle that she grew up in a household where her father was physically abusive towards her mother. This means that Ryle knew from the start that Lily would be more likely to ignore his abusive behaviours because her of what a healthy relationship is is skewed
Yup!! I think unless you've been through that, you probably don't pick up on it as easily. The only other person I saw who mentioned that part was Mickey Atkins.
It's made so much worse when you factor in that Collen herself said the book is partially influenced by the abuse her and her mother experienced at the hands of her father and she was apparently also a social worker before she was a writer. She has to know on some level these are toxic traits but chooses to romanticize them anyway.
Excellent point! Abusers often find victims who are more likely to forgive and see the best in others. That way, they're able to get away with the absolute worst. This takes it to another level since he knows that the type of relationship modeled for her growing up is similar to what theirs would be.
Yeaaaaah but irl people really do this. Oh you're a doctor? Fix literally everything that might be wrong with someone even though 95% of it has nothing to do with your specialty.
To become a neurosurgeon you need to go get a doctor’s degree before getting educated to the specific field of neurosurgery. I’m not defending this book. This book is the worst shit ever. A neurosurgeon smoking pot without it ruining his job? Really not realistic.
@@Michaelthelast that's completely true, but the number of Drs that remember things outside of their specialty after years doing solely that is pretty low. If you go into anaphylaxis on a plane, a dermatologist may not be your best chance of survival is all I'm saying. They're outstanding in their field but you might be better with someone else more confident in that area of expertise.
@@roselover411 I mean to get their doctor degree they have to be in school for six years learning multiple fields to help people, which can make it harder to remember some things. I just wanted to point it out. Also a sprains are really easy to treat but it’s always recommended to seek doctors on their actual job and not your cousins long lost step sister’s mom, who’s a brain surgeon and off work. I’m of course exaggerating but still. It’s better getting doctors on the job that can scan your joint for breaks rather than a doctor who’s off. (I guess the book doesn’t make her go to a doctor who’s on the job and not the neurosurgeon)
"Fun" Fact: Hoover also stated she fell in love with Ryle during the writing process and thought about steering the story into a very different direction 💀
@@Louves192 Ew. Reminds me of when she said she didn't know who the villain was gonna be in Verity and then said "yeah, I think Verity really is evil." Like huh????
I know fantasy isn’t reality and I have some fantasies that I would never want to happen irl, but the fact that every single love interest CoHo writes is, at best, toxic as hell just really makes it seem like she needs therapy. Like if she thinks Atlas is the benchmark for great guys, as she repeatedly says in the sequel, I’m kinda concerned about her
I call books like these "popcorn books." Easy to read and digest. They appeal to a large population because they're very accessible. If I could get super rich from writing popcorn books, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, Black authors are held to a super high standard in publishing, and we have so much stacked against us. If I tried to submit a popcorn book, I'd get laughed out of publishing, told that my work is not quality, etc. etc. As a result, we don't get the super wide mass appeal like the popcorn books. And because we can't get that appeal, we're less likely to get huge marketing pushes or to go viral. And that's just the beginning! It's a vicious circle. Publishing is definitely not a meritocracy. They only care about making money. I feel like I've cracked the code, now I have to fight for a chance to demonstrate it!
I’m a 50 some white lady..,I’m pretty butch but I could femme it up. Wanna conspire against the industry and pull a switcheroo? I’m kidding ofc…mostly. Oh lol I’m prob too old to get a genre deal, dang it, we could cash this privilege out! I should have conspired at 32!
Trigger warnings are so important. I lost a friend and if I read about the specific way he died I get really upset thinking about him going through that.
The part about being relieved at the cancer diagnosis of an abuser is so real. I had no idea my abusive uncle actually had cancer (he was lying and just said he had stomach ulcers), but the day I found out he died I started crying. Everyone was hugging me because they thought I was devastated, saying things like "oh, I know you two were so close, I'm so sorry!" I still haven't told any of them that I was crying in pure relief. Finally, he couldn't hurt me anymore. Thanks for the video, your take down of this stupid awful book was cathartic to watch ❤
@@afckingegg7585 A girl reached out to Colleen Hoover claiming that Colleen's son SA'd/harassed her, and she blocked the girl instead of taking her claims seriously
@@afckingegg7585 yeah. One or multiple (I can't quite remember) women have come out about their SA experience with CoHo's son. And he basically fought them online
"the ppl who love u hurt u the most" NOPE. Miss me with that sht, if someone loves u they will NOT hurt u!! The occasional argument or insensitive comment, giving in to a selfish impulse or lashing out bc of stress or grief?? Sure! But physical violence?? Nah. If someone physically attacks u and still claims they love u, they are _wrong._ They might THINK they love u, they might love the IDEA of u or the version of u they invented in their mind, but they do not love u as u _truly are._ Gtfo as soon as u safely can. It's not worth staying. I promise u, it's _not_ worth staying. There are ppl out there who will treat u with kindness & respect. U just have to find them. It's not easy, but it's worth the effort. _You_ are worth the effort. So take good care of urself, ok?? U deserve it ☺️ ETA: Side note, if my kid dedicated a book about an abusive relationship to their other parent who has abused me.....I wouldn't be able to tell them, but damn that would hurt me a lot 😟
I had really intense post-partum depression. I NEED to know if something includes the death of a child so I can avoid an anxiety spiral. Colleen needs to touch grass.
Yeah, not considering abortion makes sense for Lily's character. However, the fact that no one considers abortion in CoHo's books (unless they are evil), tells something about the author
Thank you for calling out Atlas too. I have seen too many people who criticized this book call Atlas a stand-up guy. I know the bar for Hoover's love interests is in hell, but just because he is a "good guy" for her standards, doesn't mean he is actually a good person or healthy LI.
I keep seeing the Atlas fans hype up this guy for being the "good guy", the "brave hero", and the "ultimate boyfriend material" for 'saving/helping' Lily whilst that dude barely does the minimum😂
What gets me about the "I don’t want to use trigger warnings because that would spoil it" is that Ao3 already came up with a solution. On Ao3 there's specific warnings that can be used for things like r*** and graphic violence. There's also an option "Creator chose not to use archive Warnings", which basically means "this story may include any and all triggering content, read at your own risk". Once again Colleen Hoover is outclassed by p0rn I've read on Ao3.
Something that's been on my mind regarding Colleen Hoover and her other works is that she seems to have this underlying belief throughout most/all of them that compartmentalizes abuse and abusive behavior as something entirely separate from the abusive party. The thing that tipped me off the most was the foreword she wrote at the end of IEWU shouting out her abusive dad and saying that she'd remember him for his "good" days. I don't want to speculate too much about her childhood/upbringing, and I can't nor should try to make any concrete statements about how it affected her, but based purely on what's been presented in this foreword and her other works, she gives off the impression that abuse is just a collection of isolated moments or instances rather than a repeat pattern of behavior that's meant to tear down and hurt victims as much as humanly possible. I think that's also why the condemnation of Ryle's behavior feels kind of...hollow coming from her specifically because from what I've seen from reviews of her other works with male leads that are just as, if not MORE toxic than Ryle (looking at you November 9...), she often explains away their behavior with a tragic backstory about something that happened to them in their childhood, as if that's supposed to justify the abuse they often put the female leads through in present day?? Like, great that Ryle's behavior is called out and shown to be bad in this one book, but what about all the other toxic/abusive male leads in your other books?? IDK, this is just something I've been thinking about for a while and just wanted to get out there lol
so here's a wild idea for writers who don't want to "spoil" the twist of the book by including trigger warnings. Place a page at the front of the book that says "this book has trigger warnings. See the back page for a list." And then you put the trigger warnings at the back of the book. That way people who don't want trigger warnings don't have to avoid reading the page. Honestly, skill issue. I don't think I have _ever_ read those first few pages of a book. I wouldn't even _know_ if a book I read has trigger warnings, because I just don't care. You _can_ just take one glance at a page and then not read it. I just flip through those first pages until I find one that looks like a prologue. But, putting the list at the back of the book means that its still there, physically, in the book for people who need it, but its very easy to avoid reading even if you are compelled to read every page in a linear fashion. Just toss in a few blank pages at the back for padding so the trigger warnings list isn't facing the last page of the actual book. You can also make the words "trigger warning" really big, and then the actual list smaller. That way people can see the trigger warning and _not_ read the rest of the page. You can do a two layer trigger warning. A trigger warning warning for all those special snowflakes who get so upset about accommodating others. "The next page contains a list of triggers, skip it if that concerns you" The fun thing about this option is you can go full inception with it and make an entire book of trigger warning warnings. You can also do fake trigger warnings. "This book deals with potentially upsetting topics including some, but not all, of the following:' And then in addition to all of the legitimate trigger warnings, you have a few red herrings tossed in for good measure. So if a reader reads the list when they buy the book they can gauge if its something they'll be okay with or if they need more research before committing to it. Personally, I prefer the first option. Its probably what I'm going to do. Complaining about trigger warnings "spoiling" a book sounds like a creativity problem. Either they couldn't think of a way of communicating to their audience without spoiling and/or their narratives are so uncomplicated that saying 'death of a parent' completely ruins the entire experience. _Or_ they're using it as an excuse because they think its woke. It is woke, but the alternative is being a small sleepy boy so...I'll be woke, fuck it.
Unpopular Opinion: I love trigger warnings. They are like a nutrition profile on food - I get to make an informed decision on what I consume. Some people can endure spoilers, some can't. That's up to them, not the people trying to snatch their money from them. F*ckin' BOO on dishonest advertising. If this book isn't a romance, then it shouldn't be marketed to romance readers. I'm disgusted by normalisation of authors and publishers marketing to people they hope to fleece the most money off of, hoping people will pick up the book by mistake and what, love it anyway? We'll love what they tell us to love? Well if you don't like it... haha, too late, no refunds! Gross. Wrong and gross.
The funny thing about Colleen saying that trigger warnings ruin the twists of her stories, that means your stories aren’t good. Even with trigger warnings, most people won’t admittedly get the twist, at least, if you right your story well. If having warnings about triggering material in your story ruins it, then you aren’t that good of a writer.
It’s also notable that compost isn’t even cow shit, it’s plant and food waste. Colleen was thinking of manure. She really can’t even google things before she hits publish
She probably purposely didn't put content warnings because she set this "domestic abuse" theme as a PLOT TWIST. Like she wanted readers to be as shocked, could explain why this shit must've been marketed as a "romance book" so it's like: *"HA! You thought! Here comes trauma!"*
@@kbird6208 IKR. The twist for lily was attempted to be for the audience too tho, here's the signs: marketing it as romance, no trigger warnings, the vague description of the story. Like to me, personally there was red flags w Ryle (especially book Ryle) but I initially thought *the book* was ROMANCE ... like that was a twist for ME😭
if i can have a great experience reading a fanfic with almost a page long of trigger warnings, surely a published author can give the same experience, i would hope?
This. They can literally skip them like most people skip the publishing info and dedication at the beginning of the book. It's just one more page to turn without reading!
Wanna know what ruins a reading experience for me? Being really into a book, then having a panic attack and not being able to finish it. I definitely agree that TWs shouldn't be mandated, and I don't think it's possible to make a fully comprehensive list of TWs, but it's really nice when people put the effort in
I keep seeing people defending this book and the one thing I find completely indefensible is the sentiment of “there are no bad people, just people that do bad things.” There are definitely bad people. Coleen is just going to excuse all their bad behavior away, as long as they’re men. That being the takeaway message she wanted her readers to internalize makes this feel less like her goal was to make people sympathetic to abuse victims and more like she wants people to be sympathetic to abusers.
Honestly this quote would've worked if it was shown to be a BS excuse Ryle pulls to justify/excuse his abuse and have Lily realize he's just talking out of his back side
I hate that saying it should be ," there aren't monsters just people. Sometimes people are awful, sometimes they do good things or awful things and sometimes they are the awful thing." It should be about how abusers don't have been diabolical or even malicious masterminds but everyday people who do awful things that they think are normal. If everyone's looking for cartoonish monsters no one notices Jim Bob with wandering hands and a quiet wife and kids.And most people think of themselves as good and their actions are normal regardless of what the impact on those is around them. Hell abusers often see the abuse they perpetuate as something done to them, they lose control over and are justified by some inane non logic or ideology.
CoHo is proof that the cycle of abuse is real :/ She experienced this type of abuse, but she still makes a *lot* of money romanticizing and excusing it.
So the message is: you aren’t whole without a man. You can go through all those trials and tribulations and come out the other side but you still gotta get that man. 😒. Also the Dustin clips? *chefs kiss*
The thing that makes me so angry at authors who use the "trigger warnings are spoilers!!!" argument is you can put them somewhere other than the start! It's such a common thing for fanfic writers to put basic trigger warnings at the top and say spoiler TWs or TWs with more context at the bottom of the chapter and if you want to check them you can. Authors could easily say eg.: "further warnings in spoiler TWs" or "themes of violence (check spoiler TWs for context)" on the front page and then print the TWs that might "ruin" the story on the back page. You can also make that work for ebooks with a link or hidden text you click on to see them, it's so obvious and low effort on the authors part, and they could easily use it to add page refs for the triggers so people can avoid them but still read the book. Letting traumatised people have control over how they interact with their trauma is the bare minimum. I think even authors who do use TWs (I appreciate y'all) could add this because some of my triggers need specific contexts for me to not be able to read vs just feeling upset and maybe taking a break vs actually being cathartic and helping me work through something with a fictional character as a buffer and it just gives people a bit more insight and ability to choose if they read something.
I saw some fans getting angry about trailer of the movie showing the domestic violance. They say "ah you ruined it. This supossed to be a twist!" So, I guess it shows the real intention here. This book is not for creating awareness, it is a standart Coleen Hoover romance book that has a twist to shock people
For a very long time I admit I've been against trigger warnings, except for some specific cases and genres, because I treated them as spoilers for me as a reader and for my potential readers if I ever publish a book. But the more I looked into this and thought about it I realised that those trigger warnings are not for me. I don't have any triggers so I don't have to check the warnings. They are for the people who could get hurt and I don't have the right to take the warnings away from them. They can read the book on their own terms or decide to skip it.
9:22 Oh, I hate when people use this as an excuse. If your story is so dependent on plot twists that you feel the need to hide trigger warnings, maybe your book wasn’t that good to begin with. Yes, having a plot twist revealed can have a big impact on your experience reading something, but if there’s nothing else compelling about it once that reveal is made, then it’s just not good. Creators gotta stop using this excuse because I’m so sick of it as a “wall” to criticism for no trigger warnings.
When I read this, the thing I hated most is that Ryle didn’t really face any consequences. If I recall, Lily didn’t want to press charges because she didn’t want to ruin his career, and to that I say WHO CARES?! The chances of him hurting another woman are high, not only that but in the second book (spoilers I guess) he pins Lily against a door and almost hurts her when he gets angry WITH the baby in the house (if I recall) so he clearly didn’t get better even after saying he worked on himself. I just want him to face the consequences of his actions and it felt like it never happened and Ryle never learned :/ It Ends with Us” until he moves onto another person and hurts them instead…
I always focus on the wrong things, but when I found out that Ryle is 28 or whatever when he's on the cusp of becoming a neurosurgeon, something seemed off to me. So I looked it up. And was I surprised that CoHo didn't seem to think it took all that much longer to become a neurosurgeon as opposed to a general practitioner? Of course not. I knew she wouldn't have known it takes 14-16 years, on average, to become a neuro. Why would I expect Colleen to have done some research instead of inadvertently making Ryle a fucking genius who started med school at the age of 14? SUPPOSEDLY this is why the characters were aged up in the movie (please) and SUPPOSEDLY she didn't make Ryle older because she didn't want a larger age gap (make Lily older? It's not like women in their late 20s don't still struggle with their perception of healthy relationships after witnessing abuse.), but it's all just more evidence of how little thought she puts into the details.
I'd go so far as to say Hoover doesn't have the most positive perception/opinion of active sufferers of domestic abuse, if only because that titular line - "It ends with us." - feels weirdly...icky? Like I get its Lily speaking to herself, but when you compare that line and others to how Lily's mom is represented in the book and how other characters - INCLUDING LILY - talk and think about her mom...I dunno. Maybe this is me wanting this book to be something that its not, but a moment of Lily telling her mom "It's not your fault" or engaging in that difficult conversation with her mom that isn't, "ugh, why did you let Dad beat up on you, Mom?" would've at least communicated to me that Hoover doesn't see abuse as just like...a thing that happens to people who aren't strong enough to "stand up to it".
I'm not sure I could leave my baby with someone who has violent blackouts. I also felt like her authors note kinda focused on how good her mum was for protecting how Coleen saw her dad.
I hate how underplayed the blackouts were, epsecislly with the fact he knew he had them. Nobody told Lily, and then he still gas lit her about what he did.
Yes to that last point!! The emphasis that CoHo placed on her mother remaining civil and not saying anything bad about her dad was insane to me. Like, is that really the most important thing here, protecting the reputation of the abuser?!?! What are you trying to say here Colleen, that survivers of abuse who have negative things to say about their abusers are less worthy of respect in your eyes??? wtaf
The inserts of Dustin Poynter, the Red Flag Guy, were immaculate. He would be up and down the field with his red flag over the characters in this book.
Two or maybe three legitimate questions for Colleen 1 what type of people is she hanging out with/ having relationships with that she writing about this 2 is she trolling us at this point she’s got to know she’s problematic 3 sometimes I wonder if these authors are aware that people aren’t reading there books to like them but to rag on them
Okay i think i can answer at least 2 of them 1. She was a social worker, so her clients I guess 2. Probably'nt. Obviously people complain about this, but it takes a certain type of dissonance to not flinch at leaving this type of stuff out in advertising 3. I doubt she is. She's drowning in money from these books, good chance her ego grew to the point where every reader thought it was at least good lol
She also said in the afterword of the book that it was partially inspired by her parents' abusive relationship, so that seems like a solid answer for question 1. For number 2, I don't think she views it as problematic because again, in the afterword of the book, she says she chooses to remember her dad's good days, not his bad ones. You know the bad ones where he was probably being abusive towards her and her mother. She seems to think that you can still be a good person regardless of the acts you commit or the frequency of them.
…I lived in Boston around when this was published. I don’t know HOW she would afford a flower shop in that location without $$$$. Also “a flower shop on every corner” is a lie. If she had said “a bar or Dunkin’ on every corner” that would be much more accurate.
I know this is not really the important part but as someone who studies medicine the fact that the neurosurgeon is doing it for social bragging rights is the most realistic thing i've ever heard. I heard my classmate say he wants to be a neurosurgeon: 💫For prestige💫
I am thankful for Hoover, for one reason specifically. When I say I want more romcoms that focus more on the relationship and less on getting together, I can say "but more like my big fat greek wedding and 0% like a Hoover book"
Another reason it's likely that CoHo didn't have her consider abortion is that she seems to have got a *Thing* for pregnancy / breeding and demonizing things like abortion and postpartum in her books. the only reason I think she'd have let Lily even consider it is if the book painted it as a moral flaw and failing on her part that she had to atone for.
I would NOT be surprised if she was Mormon or a part of a religion who have certain views against women. Which she has a eight to her opinion sure, but I think it can explain a lot of where her themes come from around women.
The flower shop thing is so… so bad. Like, there is totally a market for goth or steampunk or different ‘edgy’style flower arrangements. It’s not super deep, and it doesn’t mean people who like those arrangements hate flowers.
Yeah, plus it makes more sense that people who hate flowers just won't go to any flower shops. Imagine opening a bar for people who hate drinking and expecting to make a profit
I'm sorry but at this point I can't hear "marine grade polymer" without thinking of the oceangate submarine, whose polymer was definitely not marine-grade
If making a COLORING BOOK for a story about domestic violence doesnt show you how being successful isn't about being smart, I don't know what will. I don't shame anyone that enjoys books like these, its just disheartening to see the romantisation of abuse being rewarded.
I love watching the movie trailers and in the UK they play army recruitment ads twice and it's all like "I wasn't a fully formed person until I joined the army" ... yes because most people join the army as teenagers. "Join the army you can do so much cool stuff"
There was an early Russian internet personality who wrote a science fiction story about a team of space marines who infiltrate a prison planet AND THEN the book suddenly transitions into an honest to goodness multiplayer strategy guide for the early first person shooter game, Quake. I feel those are the types of mid-story twists CoHo should emulate.
I will never understand how this male "love interest," Ryle, would ever be considered attractive. The dude is abusive af and somehow that's okay because he's hot? The male protagonist in Vera Valentine's "Unhinged" is more of a man, and bro is literally a door.
@@Viteaificationno, if Colleen considers him being abusive to be a twist, then you’re supposed to find him attractive, or at the very least understand why Lily is attracted to him
I can sort of understand this. Like, kids often look up to celebrities. So, writing to a celebrity that was a source of comfort for her (just keep swimming) is reassuring, even if she never sends it. It's a coping strategy. Its like how kids will often imagine their favourite character with them or helping them through tough times; for example, I used to be afraid of the dark and when I had to walk in the dark house I would imagine a pokemon beside me and protecting me. Same idea I think.
I’ve always thought of Colleen Hoover’s books as “adult concepts, made YA”. I read a few in middle school, and while the content itself is not generally appropriate for young teenagers, it feels like the writing and the depth of discussions being had about these serious subjects is about on par for that age group. Still terrible lessons being exemplified for youth, obviously, but if she’s really trying to write for a New Adult or Adult audience…that’s a whole additional conversation for me to try and wrap my head around, tbh.
Whenever an author argues against triggers warning cause they'll spoil a book, it tells me that they are a shit writer. You can absolutely write a good twist with trigger warnings. It also implies that they know the topics they are writing about are distasteful at best, and off-putting at worse, meaning the authors won't make as much money. So instead of not writing about the awful thing, or accepting that the book won't sell as good, the authors disguise it
I wish Colleen had let Lily at least think about abortion because I want abortion treated as a perfectly normal and rational option for people who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant. I agree that Lily deciding to keep the baby makes sense, although I can’t decide which is worse: Emerson Dory Bloom or Emerson Dory Kincaid.
Colleen can’t let her characters think about abortion because she seems to have a pregnancy fetish and that every single woman should love to be pregnant.
@@imaginarylivingbody7154Exactly. In Verity the titular character Verity is made out to be a villain because she struggled with pregnancy and didn't want kids at all. She's the only CoHo character I know of who brought up ending a pregnancy. Note-- I don't read Colleen's books, I just watch a lot of videos (like this one) trashing her various novels. I'll never willingly read anything written by her
I was showing my friends out of context quotes from the book while I was reading it and when Atlas asking about Lily's age came up, my best friend asked "that's the abusive one right? right??"
I did not know my mom was an alcoholic until 3 years ago. Not because the signs weren't there. Not because my other family members and my mom's owns friends didn't know (some of which had distanced themselves because of it). But because I had excused everything away for the years I had lived with her, and I left the United States when I was 21 and did not come back til 3 years back. It wasn't until my boyfriend pointed out that my mom had drank through the entire day just to "start the morning" and "go to sleep" and she drank a half a bottle of whiskey by herself that I was like....oh, not all parents do that? I know it's sometimes hard to talk about this, so thank you for sharing your personal story. Just the comment you made about how much we try to excuse behaviors because it is easier than admitting we live with an alcoholic really put a lot of my childhood into perspective.
I don’t have many triggers but when I read a book and something dark happens, I immediately think there should be a trigger warning for this. I might not need them, but I appreciate them, especially when I want to share the book with someone else.
“Is Colleen Hoover incapable of writing two characters who aren’t obsessed with each other after a single conversation” I think she might be tbh, writing romantic/erotic tension that builds over multiple interactions in a story is harder than it looks 😅 (it’s hard and she’s not good at it 😂)
I can't remember whose review I watched about this book, but another reviewer said that another aspect they felt was handled poorly was the ending. Meaning, it was a poor message to send that 1) Ryle never faces any consequences and tied to this is 2) Ryle still get's to have a relationship with his daughter. There's no guarantee that Ryle won't some time down the line be abusive with his own daughter, no matter what he says. The reviewer felt that the sentiment "it ends with us" wasn't really true, again because of the daughter situation, but also Ryle still has the chance to abuse a future partner. I've never read this book, nor plan to and I never plan to read any of Colleen Hoover's books. I'll still watch reviews of people rightfully roast them though.
I think she said the inspiration for this book was partially taken from her own parents. Colleen Hoover's father was also physically abusive, and her own parents eventually split. Apparently, her mom never spoke ill of him in order to allow her kids to have a positive relationship with him, despite the very real threat he posed to their safety. So, I think if this book has a point, it's to underline that the role of women is to prop up men, no matter what those men have done. I say "women" and not "survivors of abuse" because any time a man is harmed by a woman he is justified in literally murdering her (see: Verity).
I wrote the comment before listening that far, and then by time you started talking about it I was on the road! I'm so embarrassed, I could kick a marine-grade polymer chair! (Hopefully this didn't come off as shitty, I'm sorry if it did)
Everything I see about CoHo books makes me suspect she’s an example of why the cycle of abuse repeats. It seems like she thinks behaviour we see as warning signs are either normal or romantic. I’ve seen friends and family members pass over decent partners for abusive ones because they found the red flags attractive.
I feel like if a reader who doesn’t have any triggers didn’t want to be “spoiled” about the fucked up events that happen in a book like this then they could just skip the trigger warning list before reading the book. There’s really no excuse to not have a trigger warning list here
You think Hoover would have a heart attack if she actually met an aromantic person who's just happy having casual sex. it's one of the least significant things i hate about CoHo but as such aromantic seeing casual sex without romance being over and over again portrayed as an edgy phase of a guy who needs fixing is just annoying and was already old the first time around
and further more, what's up with all women in fiction always wanting romance and all men in fiction always wanting sex, how is that a stereotype the straights are still doing
She'd straight-up flatline if she met/became aware of aroaces. No interest in romance or sex? *Gasp* Impossible. Unfathomable. As a person who identifies as aroace, I'm glad Colleen hasn't gone there
@amandapanda5087 no doubt she would just treat being aroace as something to be ""fixed with the love of the right person"" 🤢 And as an aroace person myself, if CoHo ever does decide to go there, then she can catch all of the hands and middle fingers 😊🖕
I wouldn’t be able to finish the first pages of this book because my neurodivergent brain is STUCK on their ages and education levels. Like she’s 23 but has an MBA? Ok mmaaaybeee that’s possible if she started undergrad at 17. But Ryle is in his final year of a neurosurgical residency but he’s in his 20s?? Umm… no. A neurosurgical residency is 7 years long so even if he went straight through with no gaps, and EVEN if he started undergrad at 17, he’d have to be at least 32 to be in his last year. Ok, I’m done now. This book not only sucks, it isn’t well researched (which makes it suck more).
@@ReadswithRachel that’s so lazy! It takes less than a minute to research so you can make it somewhat believable. Ugh. She’s the worst. I’m so glad i haven’t read one book of hers. I just let you read them and then tell me how crappy they are haha! Thank you for you service 🫡
Ms Blossom and Mr Bloom want the most flowery name possible, so they name their daughter Lily? See, I’d go with Flora, so as to continue with Blossom and Bloom’s theme of encompassing all flowers. If you’re going to be obnoxiously floral, go all the way with it. (My apologies to anyone named Flora; you don’t deserve to have your name associated with this book any more than people named Lily do.)
I know Lily is a really popular flower name, but imo "Rose" is the most quintessential flower name of all time, so why not go with that, if the goal to have the most flowery flower name of all time? Or hell, given how obsessed CoHo is with having the most obnoxiously ""unique"" names, why not just go all out and fully commit to the bit and just call her "Flower"? Most ppl don't tend to be so on the nose in their naming conventions, but that's pretty much CoHo's entire brand.
Get 25% off on Paired premium! Start your 7-day free trial by clicking the link here: www.paired.com/rachel25
(Also, been using Paired for 3 years. No joke, it's really fun to do in the car. Especially on like roadtrips.)
@@kay12Yes! We were using Paired just last week while we were road tripping/evacuating for the hurricane!
So I'm ace/aro is there anything similar to this for friends & family? I feel like it would be fun & interesting to do with them too.
I went to see It Ends With Us in theatres and as soon as I sat down, I got a flood warning, then the power went out twice, then the audio didn't play. Whatever god is out there was begging me to leave
This is hilarious
"Save yourself!"
The universe really said, "Get out, save yourself!" P.S. Love your username LOL
If that ain't a sign from God, I dont know what is! 😂
Did you listen to them
I can’t get over the fact she supposedly has an MBA at 23 and he’s a neurosurgeon at 29….. what?????
You know how you felt about the chick in Ugly Love being named Rachel? Sigh. Now it's my turn...
I’ve gotten very lucky and have yet to find a book with my name!
i completely understand, gets me scared everytime i hear my name 😭
Forever grateful that my name is almost always used as a middle name.
Hey there was once a movie with three characters with my name & they all got brutally murdered simply because they loved croquet & yea & I don’t remember the third 😢. (Heehee that’s for the olds & the cool youngs, ofc I’m absolutely honored to share my name with one of the best movies of my adolescence…must see tho prob is problematic…oh yeah…definitely…but still a cinematic delight)
@@Marie45610Well hello there AnnLynnRaeMarie?
“My mom thinks I’m wasting my life away.” - character who is a neurosurgeon. 😅
Something small that bugs me is that Ryle buying her lilies could have been a great bit of symbolism and foreshadowing if CoHo actually cared. While lilies can represent love, they’re also death flowers. Christians tend to use them for weddings, but they’re some of the most common funeral flowers too
Ryle is extremely abusive and he has the potential to kill Lily. Him giving her flowers that symbolise both marriage and death could be a sign of the two sides that Colleen (incorrectly) thought she gave him - the gentle loving man vs the violent abuser. Lily, as a florist, should absolutely know about the usages of different flowers, but she’s just too caught up in the whirlwind of the toxic relationship to give it a second thought
But no it was just a ‘her name’s Lily so he can give her lilies!’ joke and it’s disappointing
That would have been so interesting, like if Lily herself was so into flowers and maybe noticing the symbolisim. Now that I think about it, for a book with flowers and a Mc whose job is about them. I don't think we really get much about them.
Thanks for the idea.
How lovely of a plot point it would be if Lily occasionally recommended flower combination for customers after they explain their circumstance. A girl with an unspoken love? Lily gives her x flowers. A man wants to give his wife flowers after she just gave birth? Lily gives him something symbolizing new life/celebration. But for all of her knowledge on flowers and helping others express themselves, she doesn’t see the warning signs with Ryle. The gifted lilies, a bush of bleeding hearts that keep growing at his place, other ominous stuff like that, which enhances the foreshadowing.
You’re right, that was a real miss for not using the language of flowers for a lady who owns a flower shop.
Colleen can’t do symbolism 😂
Oh wow, I wish they had gone with that symbolism. All they had to do was have Lily recall the lilies at her father's funeral as he gave them to her. That would have really highlighted the cycle and the possibility of death.
For any author wondering, I'm someone who doesn't care about content warnings and trust me, their presence has no affect on me at all. I scroll right by and don't even notice them. So put them in your books (and the sales page on online retailers) because they matter a lot to the people who want them and don't matter at all to people like me. They certainly don't "spoil" a book
A good compromise is to put a note saying they exist at the back of the book, so if you need to look at them, turn to this page.
for my first book, my publisher was like "we don't really DO content warnings" (this is a big 5). they do them now, but for a while it was definitely work to get it done. i always put them on my website, but they should definitely be in books as a rule.
i know one concern is that book banners will use the content warnings get books banned. it's really a tough line to toe.
@@LilRonGalyeah it's difficult to push for stuff like this without bigots manipulating it to their advantage 🙄 I think a better angle would be to reframe it not as a matter of harm reduction, but a matter of politeness. Like it's just good manners to have content/trigger warnings, just like for movies & video games. It won't work on everyone ofc, but some folks will take to it if they're interested in ~civility~ but not.....u know, empathy toward survivors of DV situations 😒
As someone who reads a lot of internet fics (which are real writing, and I will fight people on this) the presence of Trigger Warnings or Content Warnings, doesn't affect me, but for people that it would affect, it's very nice, because, ignoring the human point of view of warning someone about this.
From a marketing POV, someone literally getting triggered because you didn't tell them that the book talks about, say for example, abusive relationships, is not exactly good optics to put yourself in.
As an author, it's the purpose of the profession to take someone through a journey, while that journey might be uncomfortable for some, I still want to take them there, I however, have lines that I don't want to cross and things that should be kept behind a vale, moreover, there are topics that need to be disclosed to readers, especially when marketing a book. (Like, marketing a romance book, whenever it's mostly focusing on domestic abuse. You kinda have to disclose some things, by requirement of marketing)
Hell, I'm remembering this one author who frames her CWs in books in a very condescending way (just throwing a link that has the barebones of CWs for the book), but even that is better than none at all. It's not a good way, but it's better than nothing whatsoever.
Especially for the more violent ones. If those sorts of warnings 'spoil' your book, it means you're relying on the shock value of such events--which is BAD WRITING.
I've seen so many reviews of this book, but I only just realized that Lily tells Ryle that she grew up in a household where her father was physically abusive towards her mother. This means that Ryle knew from the start that Lily would be more likely to ignore his abusive behaviours because her of what a healthy relationship is is skewed
Yup!! I think unless you've been through that, you probably don't pick up on it as easily. The only other person I saw who mentioned that part was Mickey Atkins.
I'm not even sure Colleen picked up on that. But you really hit a hard nail, Ryle knew her past, and STILL abused and gaslit her.
Great point
It's made so much worse when you factor in that Collen herself said the book is partially influenced by the abuse her and her mother experienced at the hands of her father and she was apparently also a social worker before she was a writer. She has to know on some level these are toxic traits but chooses to romanticize them anyway.
Excellent point! Abusers often find victims who are more likely to forgive and see the best in others. That way, they're able to get away with the absolute worst. This takes it to another level since he knows that the type of relationship modeled for her growing up is similar to what theirs would be.
but why would you call a neurosurgeon to wrap a sprained ankle you could not pick a further part of the body from what he does 😭
LMAOOO
Yeaaaaah but irl people really do this. Oh you're a doctor? Fix literally everything that might be wrong with someone even though 95% of it has nothing to do with your specialty.
To become a neurosurgeon you need to go get a doctor’s degree before getting educated to the specific field of neurosurgery. I’m not defending this book. This book is the worst shit ever. A neurosurgeon smoking pot without it ruining his job? Really not realistic.
@@Michaelthelast that's completely true, but the number of Drs that remember things outside of their specialty after years doing solely that is pretty low. If you go into anaphylaxis on a plane, a dermatologist may not be your best chance of survival is all I'm saying. They're outstanding in their field but you might be better with someone else more confident in that area of expertise.
@@roselover411 I mean to get their doctor degree they have to be in school for six years learning multiple fields to help people, which can make it harder to remember some things. I just wanted to point it out.
Also a sprains are really easy to treat but it’s always recommended to seek doctors on their actual job and not your cousins long lost step sister’s mom, who’s a brain surgeon and off work. I’m of course exaggerating but still. It’s better getting doctors on the job that can scan your joint for breaks rather than a doctor who’s off. (I guess the book doesn’t make her go to a doctor who’s on the job and not the neurosurgeon)
‘What bookshop caters to people who hate books’ any shop with a booktok section
The way I would prefer to read about the invention, history, and uses of marine grade polymer than any CoHo book
Gahahahaha
Просрали все полимеры 😭🙏
“Put that sentence back in your mouth” is my absolute favorite thing now.
Fun fact: there’s a CoHo book where the love interest is called Six. Which is a nickname for her given name, Seven.
@@tyler-df3wy Little Nightmares reference *_*
@@aurora4847 I love those games so much!
🤨
I just watched someone review that! I think its called Finding Cinderella
Sounds like NANA
You know CoHo is a shit author when the guy that's supposed to be an abuser is waaaayyy too similar to the "love interests" of all her other books.
"Fun" Fact: Hoover also stated she fell in love with Ryle during the writing process and thought about steering the story into a very different direction 💀
@@Louves192 Ew. Reminds me of when she said she didn't know who the villain was gonna be in Verity and then said "yeah, I think Verity really is evil." Like huh????
To this day, I don’t get why they didn’t just name the store ‘Lily’s Blooms.’ It was right there.
I know fantasy isn’t reality and I have some fantasies that I would never want to happen irl, but the fact that every single love interest CoHo writes is, at best, toxic as hell just really makes it seem like she needs therapy. Like if she thinks Atlas is the benchmark for great guys, as she repeatedly says in the sequel, I’m kinda concerned about her
Sometimes an author tells u something about themself without meaning to, or seemingly even being aware of it.
She was also a social worker. Like "ma'am are you okay?"
@@Ashbrash1998 I truly shudder to think about what she's told past clients 🙏🏾😭
I call books like these "popcorn books." Easy to read and digest. They appeal to a large population because they're very accessible. If I could get super rich from writing popcorn books, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, Black authors are held to a super high standard in publishing, and we have so much stacked against us. If I tried to submit a popcorn book, I'd get laughed out of publishing, told that my work is not quality, etc. etc. As a result, we don't get the super wide mass appeal like the popcorn books. And because we can't get that appeal, we're less likely to get huge marketing pushes or to go viral. And that's just the beginning! It's a vicious circle. Publishing is definitely not a meritocracy. They only care about making money. I feel like I've cracked the code, now I have to fight for a chance to demonstrate it!
God damn it, now I want popcorn!
Such a great and important comment this is so true!!! I'm not black but I've seen this logic play up again and again and it is appaling
We ride till dawn!
Self publish as "Susan McClintok" and clean up 😂
I’m a 50 some white lady..,I’m pretty butch but I could femme it up. Wanna conspire against the industry and pull a switcheroo? I’m kidding ofc…mostly. Oh lol I’m prob too old to get a genre deal, dang it, we could cash this privilege out! I should have conspired at 32!
Trigger warnings are so important. I lost a friend and if I read about the specific way he died I get really upset thinking about him going through that.
Rachel and the red flag guy is the duo I didn't know I needed
I love that guy
Came to the comments to see if anyone else was a Dustin Poynter fan!
@@LizStaley Same 😆
i thought the "boba shop for people who hate boba" was going to turn into a bobba rant lmao
The part about being relieved at the cancer diagnosis of an abuser is so real. I had no idea my abusive uncle actually had cancer (he was lying and just said he had stomach ulcers), but the day I found out he died I started crying. Everyone was hugging me because they thought I was devastated, saying things like "oh, I know you two were so close, I'm so sorry!" I still haven't told any of them that I was crying in pure relief. Finally, he couldn't hurt me anymore.
Thanks for the video, your take down of this stupid awful book was cathartic to watch ❤
Ironic this is about “ending the cycle” when collen couldn’t even do that irl with her “alleged” sex offender son
When I tell you I was scrolling the comments to see if this was mentioned by anyone
💯 more proof that the message behind IEWU is completely hollow and that Colleen doesn't actually give a sh!t
Whoa, what?
@@afckingegg7585 A girl reached out to Colleen Hoover claiming that Colleen's son SA'd/harassed her, and she blocked the girl instead of taking her claims seriously
@@afckingegg7585 yeah. One or multiple (I can't quite remember) women have come out about their SA experience with CoHo's son. And he basically fought them online
"the ppl who love u hurt u the most" NOPE.
Miss me with that sht, if someone loves u they will NOT hurt u!! The occasional argument or insensitive comment, giving in to a selfish impulse or lashing out bc of stress or grief?? Sure! But physical violence??
Nah. If someone physically attacks u and still claims they love u, they are _wrong._ They might THINK they love u, they might love the IDEA of u or the version of u they invented in their mind, but they do not love u as u _truly are._
Gtfo as soon as u safely can. It's not worth staying. I promise u, it's _not_ worth staying. There are ppl out there who will treat u with kindness & respect. U just have to find them. It's not easy, but it's worth the effort. _You_ are worth the effort. So take good care of urself, ok?? U deserve it ☺️
ETA: Side note, if my kid dedicated a book about an abusive relationship to their other parent who has abused me.....I wouldn't be able to tell them, but damn that would hurt me a lot 😟
I had really intense post-partum depression. I NEED to know if something includes the death of a child so I can avoid an anxiety spiral. Colleen needs to touch grass.
Same exact thing here, for me!
I just realized that Lily Blossom Bloom sounds like the preppy version of Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way………
That was a far better piece of literature
My Immortal is a Shakespearean masterpiece compared to this book
Ohhhh my god you are right
My Imortal, but floral.
SIXTEEN YEARS?! you and your husband do not look old enough to have been together that long. I fully thought yall were like 25.
Love that for me 🥹
Yeah, not considering abortion makes sense for Lily's character. However, the fact that no one considers abortion in CoHo's books (unless they are evil), tells something about the author
Yeah, everyone has to want to and love being a mother or they're monster, as in Verity. It's disgusting.
Savywritesbooks thinks CoHo has a breeding kink. 😅
Thank you for calling out Atlas too. I have seen too many people who criticized this book call Atlas a stand-up guy. I know the bar for Hoover's love interests is in hell, but just because he is a "good guy" for her standards, doesn't mean he is actually a good person or healthy LI.
Thiiiiiisss. I just listened to Alizee go over the sequel. Atlas is “better” but Rylo Ken is a bad person in that book to the point of parody.
@@nooneofnote8453RYLO KEN 💀💀💀
i s2g that gets me every single time, I laugh until there are tears in my eyes bc RYLO KEN 🤣
I keep seeing the Atlas fans hype up this guy for being the "good guy", the "brave hero", and the "ultimate boyfriend material" for 'saving/helping' Lily whilst that dude barely does the minimum😂
What gets me about the "I don’t want to use trigger warnings because that would spoil it" is that Ao3 already came up with a solution.
On Ao3 there's specific warnings that can be used for things like r*** and graphic violence. There's also an option "Creator chose not to use archive Warnings", which basically means "this story may include any and all triggering content, read at your own risk". Once again Colleen Hoover is outclassed by p0rn I've read on Ao3.
Something that's been on my mind regarding Colleen Hoover and her other works is that she seems to have this underlying belief throughout most/all of them that compartmentalizes abuse and abusive behavior as something entirely separate from the abusive party. The thing that tipped me off the most was the foreword she wrote at the end of IEWU shouting out her abusive dad and saying that she'd remember him for his "good" days. I don't want to speculate too much about her childhood/upbringing, and I can't nor should try to make any concrete statements about how it affected her, but based purely on what's been presented in this foreword and her other works, she gives off the impression that abuse is just a collection of isolated moments or instances rather than a repeat pattern of behavior that's meant to tear down and hurt victims as much as humanly possible.
I think that's also why the condemnation of Ryle's behavior feels kind of...hollow coming from her specifically because from what I've seen from reviews of her other works with male leads that are just as, if not MORE toxic than Ryle (looking at you November 9...), she often explains away their behavior with a tragic backstory about something that happened to them in their childhood, as if that's supposed to justify the abuse they often put the female leads through in present day?? Like, great that Ryle's behavior is called out and shown to be bad in this one book, but what about all the other toxic/abusive male leads in your other books??
IDK, this is just something I've been thinking about for a while and just wanted to get out there lol
so here's a wild idea for writers who don't want to "spoil" the twist of the book by including trigger warnings.
Place a page at the front of the book that says "this book has trigger warnings. See the back page for a list." And then you put the trigger warnings at the back of the book. That way people who don't want trigger warnings don't have to avoid reading the page. Honestly, skill issue. I don't think I have _ever_ read those first few pages of a book. I wouldn't even _know_ if a book I read has trigger warnings, because I just don't care. You _can_ just take one glance at a page and then not read it. I just flip through those first pages until I find one that looks like a prologue. But, putting the list at the back of the book means that its still there, physically, in the book for people who need it, but its very easy to avoid reading even if you are compelled to read every page in a linear fashion. Just toss in a few blank pages at the back for padding so the trigger warnings list isn't facing the last page of the actual book.
You can also make the words "trigger warning" really big, and then the actual list smaller. That way people can see the trigger warning and _not_ read the rest of the page.
You can do a two layer trigger warning. A trigger warning warning for all those special snowflakes who get so upset about accommodating others. "The next page contains a list of triggers, skip it if that concerns you" The fun thing about this option is you can go full inception with it and make an entire book of trigger warning warnings.
You can also do fake trigger warnings. "This book deals with potentially upsetting topics including some, but not all, of the following:' And then in addition to all of the legitimate trigger warnings, you have a few red herrings tossed in for good measure. So if a reader reads the list when they buy the book they can gauge if its something they'll be okay with or if they need more research before committing to it.
Personally, I prefer the first option. Its probably what I'm going to do. Complaining about trigger warnings "spoiling" a book sounds like a creativity problem. Either they couldn't think of a way of communicating to their audience without spoiling and/or their narratives are so uncomplicated that saying 'death of a parent' completely ruins the entire experience. _Or_ they're using it as an excuse because they think its woke. It is woke, but the alternative is being a small sleepy boy so...I'll be woke, fuck it.
Unpopular Opinion: I love trigger warnings. They are like a nutrition profile on food - I get to make an informed decision on what I consume. Some people can endure spoilers, some can't. That's up to them, not the people trying to snatch their money from them.
F*ckin' BOO on dishonest advertising. If this book isn't a romance, then it shouldn't be marketed to romance readers. I'm disgusted by normalisation of authors and publishers marketing to people they hope to fleece the most money off of, hoping people will pick up the book by mistake and what, love it anyway? We'll love what they tell us to love? Well if you don't like it... haha, too late, no refunds!
Gross. Wrong and gross.
I don't see why it's unpopular. It costs people nothing.
After with Cindy's video I feel like the Marine Grey Polymer chair should be considered a character
I still gotta watch her video! She's so funny
@@ReadswithRachelit's very funny, definitely watch it!
The funny thing about Colleen saying that trigger warnings ruin the twists of her stories, that means your stories aren’t good. Even with trigger warnings, most people won’t admittedly get the twist, at least, if you right your story well. If having warnings about triggering material in your story ruins it, then you aren’t that good of a writer.
It’s also notable that compost isn’t even cow shit, it’s plant and food waste. Colleen was thinking of manure. She really can’t even google things before she hits publish
She probably purposely didn't put content warnings because she set this "domestic abuse" theme as a PLOT TWIST. Like she wanted readers to be as shocked, could explain why this shit must've been marketed as a "romance book" so it's like: *"HA! You thought! Here comes trauma!"*
How is it even a twist when he's doing stuff from the beginning... That's not how twists work!
@@kbird6208 IKR. The twist for lily was attempted to be for the audience too tho, here's the signs: marketing it as romance, no trigger warnings, the vague description of the story.
Like to me, personally there was red flags w Ryle (especially book Ryle) but I initially thought *the book* was ROMANCE ... like that was a twist for ME😭
if i can have a great experience reading a fanfic with almost a page long of trigger warnings, surely a published author can give the same experience, i would hope?
Some people talk about trigger warnings as if you can't just skip over them if you feel like they'll spoil the book.
This. They can literally skip them like most people skip the publishing info and dedication at the beginning of the book. It's just one more page to turn without reading!
How've you gotten through *three* of her books? 😩
With spite and marijuana if we’re being honest
For science lol so that we don't have to 😅
@@ReadswithRachelthe only way to survive one of these books, clearly 😅
I'm grateful to her since she's going through these books so I don't have to 😅
Wanna know what ruins a reading experience for me? Being really into a book, then having a panic attack and not being able to finish it. I definitely agree that TWs shouldn't be mandated, and I don't think it's possible to make a fully comprehensive list of TWs, but it's really nice when people put the effort in
I keep seeing people defending this book and the one thing I find completely indefensible is the sentiment of “there are no bad people, just people that do bad things.”
There are definitely bad people. Coleen is just going to excuse all their bad behavior away, as long as they’re men.
That being the takeaway message she wanted her readers to internalize makes this feel less like her goal was to make people sympathetic to abuse victims and more like she wants people to be sympathetic to abusers.
CoHo: there are no bad people just people who do bad things!
Also CoHo: *writes Verity and shows what she thinks of women who don't like/want kids*
Honestly this quote would've worked if it was shown to be a BS excuse Ryle pulls to justify/excuse his abuse and have Lily realize he's just talking out of his back side
I hate that saying it should be ," there aren't monsters just people. Sometimes people are awful, sometimes they do good things or awful things and sometimes they are the awful thing." It should be about how abusers don't have been diabolical or even malicious masterminds but everyday people who do awful things that they think are normal. If everyone's looking for cartoonish monsters no one notices Jim Bob with wandering hands and a quiet wife and kids.And most people think of themselves as good and their actions are normal regardless of what the impact on those is around them. Hell abusers often see the abuse they perpetuate as something done to them, they lose control over and are justified by some inane non logic or ideology.
CoHo is proof that the cycle of abuse is real :/ She experienced this type of abuse, but she still makes a *lot* of money romanticizing and excusing it.
So the message is: you aren’t whole without a man. You can go through all those trials and tribulations and come out the other side but you still gotta get that man. 😒. Also the Dustin clips? *chefs kiss*
Colleen Hoover doesn't like trigger warnings. So her inability to understand consent also applies to real life. Gotcha.
The thing that makes me so angry at authors who use the "trigger warnings are spoilers!!!" argument is you can put them somewhere other than the start! It's such a common thing for fanfic writers to put basic trigger warnings at the top and say spoiler TWs or TWs with more context at the bottom of the chapter and if you want to check them you can.
Authors could easily say eg.: "further warnings in spoiler TWs" or "themes of violence (check spoiler TWs for context)" on the front page and then print the TWs that might "ruin" the story on the back page. You can also make that work for ebooks with a link or hidden text you click on to see them, it's so obvious and low effort on the authors part, and they could easily use it to add page refs for the triggers so people can avoid them but still read the book. Letting traumatised people have control over how they interact with their trauma is the bare minimum.
I think even authors who do use TWs (I appreciate y'all) could add this because some of my triggers need specific contexts for me to not be able to read vs just feeling upset and maybe taking a break vs actually being cathartic and helping me work through something with a fictional character as a buffer and it just gives people a bit more insight and ability to choose if they read something.
You’re exactly right! Authors can refer you to their website, all types of things.
I saw some fans getting angry about trailer of the movie showing the domestic violance. They say "ah you ruined it. This supossed to be a twist!"
So, I guess it shows the real intention here. This book is not for creating awareness, it is a standart Coleen Hoover romance book that has a twist to shock people
For a very long time I admit I've been against trigger warnings, except for some specific cases and genres, because I treated them as spoilers for me as a reader and for my potential readers if I ever publish a book. But the more I looked into this and thought about it I realised that those trigger warnings are not for me. I don't have any triggers so I don't have to check the warnings. They are for the people who could get hurt and I don't have the right to take the warnings away from them. They can read the book on their own terms or decide to skip it.
Carlos comes out with the green flag crown! Love ya both!
Thanks Cecile 🥹❤️
9:22 Oh, I hate when people use this as an excuse. If your story is so dependent on plot twists that you feel the need to hide trigger warnings, maybe your book wasn’t that good to begin with. Yes, having a plot twist revealed can have a big impact on your experience reading something, but if there’s nothing else compelling about it once that reveal is made, then it’s just not good. Creators gotta stop using this excuse because I’m so sick of it as a “wall” to criticism for no trigger warnings.
When I read this, the thing I hated most is that Ryle didn’t really face any consequences. If I recall, Lily didn’t want to press charges because she didn’t want to ruin his career, and to that I say WHO CARES?!
The chances of him hurting another woman are high, not only that but in the second book (spoilers I guess) he pins Lily against a door and almost hurts her when he gets angry WITH the baby in the house (if I recall) so he clearly didn’t get better even after saying he worked on himself.
I just want him to face the consequences of his actions and it felt like it never happened and Ryle never learned :/ It Ends with Us” until he moves onto another person and hurts them instead…
@@BooksToAshes there's a 2nd book....why god. it ends with us until i keep it going
@@lilyn7497 "It Starts with Us" is the second book which is a sequel and it's 100% a pointless money grab. I'm glad my library took it back
@@BooksToAshes Everything she writes is a pointless money grab...
I always focus on the wrong things, but when I found out that Ryle is 28 or whatever when he's on the cusp of becoming a neurosurgeon, something seemed off to me. So I looked it up.
And was I surprised that CoHo didn't seem to think it took all that much longer to become a neurosurgeon as opposed to a general practitioner? Of course not. I knew she wouldn't have known it takes 14-16 years, on average, to become a neuro. Why would I expect Colleen to have done some research instead of inadvertently making Ryle a fucking genius who started med school at the age of 14?
SUPPOSEDLY this is why the characters were aged up in the movie (please) and SUPPOSEDLY she didn't make Ryle older because she didn't want a larger age gap (make Lily older? It's not like women in their late 20s don't still struggle with their perception of healthy relationships after witnessing abuse.), but it's all just more evidence of how little thought she puts into the details.
I'd go so far as to say Hoover doesn't have the most positive perception/opinion of active sufferers of domestic abuse, if only because that titular line - "It ends with us." - feels weirdly...icky? Like I get its Lily speaking to herself, but when you compare that line and others to how Lily's mom is represented in the book and how other characters - INCLUDING LILY - talk and think about her mom...I dunno. Maybe this is me wanting this book to be something that its not, but a moment of Lily telling her mom "It's not your fault" or engaging in that difficult conversation with her mom that isn't, "ugh, why did you let Dad beat up on you, Mom?" would've at least communicated to me that Hoover doesn't see abuse as just like...a thing that happens to people who aren't strong enough to "stand up to it".
And it doesn’t really end with Lilly and Emerson because it’s likely Ryle will go on to do this to someone else and likely do it in front of Emerson.
@@ReadswithRachel PRECISELY!!! It’s more, “well, it’s done For Us!”
I'm not sure I could leave my baby with someone who has violent blackouts. I also felt like her authors note kinda focused on how good her mum was for protecting how Coleen saw her dad.
YES! I cannot believe she felt comfortable letting him have her over. Nope, wouldn’t let that slide
I wouldn't leave my cat with a person with violent blackouts!!
I hate how underplayed the blackouts were, epsecislly with the fact he knew he had them. Nobody told Lily, and then he still gas lit her about what he did.
That part is so insane. Dude fell into a violent rage because Lily laughed at him, what makes her think a crying baby won't trigger the same reaction?
Yes to that last point!! The emphasis that CoHo placed on her mother remaining civil and not saying anything bad about her dad was insane to me. Like, is that really the most important thing here, protecting the reputation of the abuser?!?! What are you trying to say here Colleen, that survivers of abuse who have negative things to say about their abusers are less worthy of respect in your eyes??? wtaf
“I’m not like other florists, I’m a cool florist”
The inserts of Dustin Poynter, the Red Flag Guy, were immaculate. He would be up and down the field with his red flag over the characters in this book.
Two or maybe three legitimate questions for Colleen
1 what type of people is she hanging out with/ having relationships with that she writing about this
2 is she trolling us at this point she’s got to know she’s problematic
3 sometimes I wonder if these authors are aware that people aren’t reading there books to like them but to rag on them
Okay i think i can answer at least 2 of them
1. She was a social worker, so her clients I guess
2. Probably'nt. Obviously people complain about this, but it takes a certain type of dissonance to not flinch at leaving this type of stuff out in advertising
3. I doubt she is. She's drowning in money from these books, good chance her ego grew to the point where every reader thought it was at least good lol
Id genuienly love to hear her answer those and like actually have a conversation wirh her because likz wtf
She also said in the afterword of the book that it was partially inspired by her parents' abusive relationship, so that seems like a solid answer for question 1.
For number 2, I don't think she views it as problematic because again, in the afterword of the book, she says she chooses to remember her dad's good days, not his bad ones. You know the bad ones where he was probably being abusive towards her and her mother. She seems to think that you can still be a good person regardless of the acts you commit or the frequency of them.
Why did that Kraken shifter romance you reviewed deal with abuse better than this book 😭
FOR REAL
…I lived in Boston around when this was published. I don’t know HOW she would afford a flower shop in that location without $$$$. Also “a flower shop on every corner” is a lie. If she had said “a bar or Dunkin’ on every corner” that would be much more accurate.
I know this is not really the important part but as someone who studies medicine the fact that the neurosurgeon is doing it for social bragging rights is the most realistic thing i've ever heard. I heard my classmate say he wants to be a neurosurgeon: 💫For prestige💫
I am thankful for Hoover, for one reason specifically. When I say I want more romcoms that focus more on the relationship and less on getting together, I can say "but more like my big fat greek wedding and 0% like a Hoover book"
I love my big fat Greek wedding!
Another reason it's likely that CoHo didn't have her consider abortion is that she seems to have got a *Thing* for pregnancy / breeding and demonizing things like abortion and postpartum in her books. the only reason I think she'd have let Lily even consider it is if the book painted it as a moral flaw and failing on her part that she had to atone for.
I would NOT be surprised if she was Mormon or a part of a religion who have certain views against women. Which she has a eight to her opinion sure, but I think it can explain a lot of where her themes come from around women.
The flower shop thing is so… so bad. Like, there is totally a market for goth or steampunk or different ‘edgy’style flower arrangements. It’s not super deep, and it doesn’t mean people who like those arrangements hate flowers.
Yeah, plus it makes more sense that people who hate flowers just won't go to any flower shops. Imagine opening a bar for people who hate drinking and expecting to make a profit
16 years last month for my wife and me.
Congrats!
@@MDSpencersLs Thanks. I didn't realize Rachel was at 16 years as well. It's interesting to me.
congrats! me and my girlfriend hit eight months on monday^^
Congratulations!
We are 16 years in January!!❤
the marine grade polymer chair is foreshadowing for Atlas joining the Marines 🪑🤪😂
😂😂😂
I'm sorry but at this point I can't hear "marine grade polymer" without thinking of the oceangate submarine, whose polymer was definitely not marine-grade
Ouch!
How? How are there fans of this woman's writing?
Every single book is hot garbage
If making a COLORING BOOK for a story about domestic violence doesnt show you how being successful isn't about being smart, I don't know what will. I don't shame anyone that enjoys books like these, its just disheartening to see the romantisation of abuse being rewarded.
Everyone should read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, a master class about abusive men.
Making Blake Lively relevant again is a yet another crime Hoover should pay for.
If your book relies on the shock value of horrible experiences that real people go through, you've written a bad book.
I love watching the movie trailers and in the UK they play army recruitment ads twice and it's all like "I wasn't a fully formed person until I joined the army" ... yes because most people join the army as teenagers. "Join the army you can do so much cool stuff"
There was an early Russian internet personality who wrote a science fiction story about a team of space marines who infiltrate a prison planet AND THEN the book suddenly transitions into an honest to goodness multiplayer strategy guide for the early first person shooter game, Quake.
I feel those are the types of mid-story twists CoHo should emulate.
That genuinely sounds like a banger of a book. I would read that for sure!
I will never understand how this male "love interest," Ryle, would ever be considered attractive. The dude is abusive af and somehow that's okay because he's hot?
The male protagonist in Vera Valentine's "Unhinged" is more of a man, and bro is literally a door.
I think about that door/man all of the time 😩
@ReadswithRachel I might be straight and married to a beautiful woman, but that door-dude is definitely book-boyfriend material.
he wasn't, you're supposed to be attracted to atlas for trying to save lily. this is a story about abuse lol
The bar is just that low
@@Viteaificationno, if Colleen considers him being abusive to be a twist, then you’re supposed to find him attractive, or at the very least understand why Lily is attracted to him
The fact that there are people who actually romanticize Ryle is disgusting.
"Oh but trigger warnings spoil the book" then put them in the back so people who want to see them can check and others won't get 'spoiled'
her journals are written to Ellen Degeneres?! wtf lol
I will NEVER UNDERSTAND IY
I can sort of understand this. Like, kids often look up to celebrities. So, writing to a celebrity that was a source of comfort for her (just keep swimming) is reassuring, even if she never sends it. It's a coping strategy. Its like how kids will often imagine their favourite character with them or helping them through tough times; for example, I used to be afraid of the dark and when I had to walk in the dark house I would imagine a pokemon beside me and protecting me. Same idea I think.
I’ve always thought of Colleen Hoover’s books as “adult concepts, made YA”. I read a few in middle school, and while the content itself is not generally appropriate for young teenagers, it feels like the writing and the depth of discussions being had about these serious subjects is about on par for that age group. Still terrible lessons being exemplified for youth, obviously, but if she’s really trying to write for a New Adult or Adult audience…that’s a whole additional conversation for me to try and wrap my head around, tbh.
Whenever an author argues against triggers warning cause they'll spoil a book, it tells me that they are a shit writer. You can absolutely write a good twist with trigger warnings. It also implies that they know the topics they are writing about are distasteful at best, and off-putting at worse, meaning the authors won't make as much money. So instead of not writing about the awful thing, or accepting that the book won't sell as good, the authors disguise it
I wish Colleen had let Lily at least think about abortion because I want abortion treated as a perfectly normal and rational option for people who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant. I agree that Lily deciding to keep the baby makes sense, although I can’t decide which is worse: Emerson Dory Bloom or Emerson Dory Kincaid.
Colleen can’t let her characters think about abortion because she seems to have a pregnancy fetish and that every single woman should love to be pregnant.
@@imaginarylivingbody7154Exactly. In Verity the titular character Verity is made out to be a villain because she struggled with pregnancy and didn't want kids at all. She's the only CoHo character I know of who brought up ending a pregnancy.
Note-- I don't read Colleen's books, I just watch a lot of videos (like this one) trashing her various novels. I'll never willingly read anything written by her
I was showing my friends out of context quotes from the book while I was reading it and when Atlas asking about Lily's age came up, my best friend asked "that's the abusive one right? right??"
Not Ugly Love 2.0!
I did not know my mom was an alcoholic until 3 years ago. Not because the signs weren't there. Not because my other family members and my mom's owns friends didn't know (some of which had distanced themselves because of it). But because I had excused everything away for the years I had lived with her, and I left the United States when I was 21 and did not come back til 3 years back. It wasn't until my boyfriend pointed out that my mom had drank through the entire day just to "start the morning" and "go to sleep" and she drank a half a bottle of whiskey by herself that I was like....oh, not all parents do that? I know it's sometimes hard to talk about this, so thank you for sharing your personal story. Just the comment you made about how much we try to excuse behaviors because it is easier than admitting we live with an alcoholic really put a lot of my childhood into perspective.
I don’t have many triggers but when I read a book and something dark happens, I immediately think there should be a trigger warning for this. I might not need them, but I appreciate them, especially when I want to share the book with someone else.
This is my marine grade polymer comment. What - and I cannot stress this enough - the f$ck.
“Is Colleen Hoover incapable of writing two characters who aren’t obsessed with each other after a single conversation” I think she might be tbh, writing romantic/erotic tension that builds over multiple interactions in a story is harder than it looks 😅
(it’s hard and she’s not good at it 😂)
35:00 cracked me up 😂😂😂😂 the deadpan “lilies”
I can't remember whose review I watched about this book, but another reviewer said that another aspect they felt was handled poorly was the ending. Meaning, it was a poor message to send that 1) Ryle never faces any consequences and tied to this is 2) Ryle still get's to have a relationship with his daughter. There's no guarantee that Ryle won't some time down the line be abusive with his own daughter, no matter what he says. The reviewer felt that the sentiment "it ends with us" wasn't really true, again because of the daughter situation, but also Ryle still has the chance to abuse a future partner.
I've never read this book, nor plan to and I never plan to read any of Colleen Hoover's books. I'll still watch reviews of people rightfully roast them though.
let’s not mock colleen’s marine-grade polymer hyperfixation, guys 😕
Oh my goddd the marine-grade polymer is like, a metaphor for Atlas the marinnnne
I think she said the inspiration for this book was partially taken from her own parents. Colleen Hoover's father was also physically abusive, and her own parents eventually split. Apparently, her mom never spoke ill of him in order to allow her kids to have a positive relationship with him, despite the very real threat he posed to their safety.
So, I think if this book has a point, it's to underline that the role of women is to prop up men, no matter what those men have done. I say "women" and not "survivors of abuse" because any time a man is harmed by a woman he is justified in literally murdering her (see: Verity).
I mention that it’s inspired by Colleen’s mom a couple times, first times about 12:40
I wrote the comment before listening that far, and then by time you started talking about it I was on the road! I'm so embarrassed, I could kick a marine-grade polymer chair!
(Hopefully this didn't come off as shitty, I'm sorry if it did)
No you’re good! Leave the poor marine grade polymer chair alone, have they not suffered enough?!
😂😂😂@@ReadswithRachel
"This video ends with us...being traumatized."
Name a better sign-off.
Everything I see about CoHo books makes me suspect she’s an example of why the cycle of abuse repeats. It seems like she thinks behaviour we see as warning signs are either normal or romantic. I’ve seen friends and family members pass over decent partners for abusive ones because they found the red flags attractive.
SO MANY RACHEL POSTS IM SO HAPPY
I saw the hurricane coming and said “I’m bulk filming” 😂
"including the colorign book and the nail polish"
Excuse me, the *what*?
I feel like if a reader who doesn’t have any triggers didn’t want to be “spoiled” about the fucked up events that happen in a book like this then they could just skip the trigger warning list before reading the book. There’s really no excuse to not have a trigger warning list here
You think Hoover would have a heart attack if she actually met an aromantic person who's just happy having casual sex. it's one of the least significant things i hate about CoHo but as such aromantic seeing casual sex without romance being over and over again portrayed as an edgy phase of a guy who needs fixing is just annoying and was already old the first time around
and further more, what's up with all women in fiction always wanting romance and all men in fiction always wanting sex, how is that a stereotype the straights are still doing
She'd straight-up flatline if she met/became aware of aroaces. No interest in romance or sex? *Gasp* Impossible. Unfathomable. As a person who identifies as aroace, I'm glad Colleen hasn't gone there
@amandapanda5087 no doubt she would just treat being aroace as something to be ""fixed with the love of the right person"" 🤢
And as an aroace person myself, if CoHo ever does decide to go there, then she can catch all of the hands and middle fingers 😊🖕
I like to half watch these videos while I write a statistics textbook (and a fantasy book). Thank you for preserving my sanity.
Oh my gosh a statistics textbook?!
I would read a statistics textbook written as a fantasy novel.
Wait, that’s just the D&D player’s handbook, isn’t it?
I wouldn’t be able to finish the first pages of this book because my neurodivergent brain is STUCK on their ages and education levels. Like she’s 23 but has an MBA? Ok mmaaaybeee that’s possible if she started undergrad at 17. But Ryle is in his final year of a neurosurgical residency but he’s in his 20s?? Umm… no. A neurosurgical residency is 7 years long so even if he went straight through with no gaps, and EVEN if he started undergrad at 17, he’d have to be at least 32 to be in his last year. Ok, I’m done now. This book not only sucks, it isn’t well researched (which makes it suck more).
Colleen loves writing medical professionals while doing 0 research on them. Same thing in Ugly Love!
@@ReadswithRachel that’s so lazy! It takes less than a minute to research so you can make it somewhat believable. Ugh. She’s the worst. I’m so glad i haven’t read one book of hers. I just let you read them and then tell me how crappy they are haha! Thank you for you service 🫡
So I'm not the biggest reader (though I was in my teen years) but I still love watching/listening to your videos because they are so much fun!
Ms Blossom and Mr Bloom want the most flowery name possible, so they name their daughter Lily? See, I’d go with Flora, so as to continue with Blossom and Bloom’s theme of encompassing all flowers. If you’re going to be obnoxiously floral, go all the way with it. (My apologies to anyone named Flora; you don’t deserve to have your name associated with this book any more than people named Lily do.)
Pretty sure I've also seen Petal as a middle name?
I know Lily is a really popular flower name, but imo "Rose" is the most quintessential flower name of all time, so why not go with that, if the goal to have the most flowery flower name of all time? Or hell, given how obsessed CoHo is with having the most obnoxiously ""unique"" names, why not just go all out and fully commit to the bit and just call her "Flower"? Most ppl don't tend to be so on the nose in their naming conventions, but that's pretty much CoHo's entire brand.