@@EeveeBoi777 Inconceivable! But really, it was a perfect use of the word. I just couldn't let the opportunity to make a Princess Bride reference slip by me.
To clarify: Xiran Jay Zhao isn't a 2024 debut author, their book "Iron Widow" was published in 2021. That being said they were very much at the forefront to expose this author to protect debut authors who may not have known how to go about defending against this, especially given their large platform.
@@spiceupyourafterlife i finally picked up iron widow today after wanting to read it for a while as i love Xiran's commentary videos and videos on ancient chinese history lol. Im excited to crack into it tonight
how the hell was she able to create the fakest, blandest, and most overdramatic fake messages that i've ever read?? no wonder she inflated her book with good reviews
Like girl, you would think she would know how to fake proper dialogue/messages by now. Also that villain arc for Lily lmaoooo, why did she do that. Why did she make Lily a hacker. For why? 😂
Rachel from Reads with Rachel channel got a PR copy of the book before the debacle, and she made a summary and review of the book. And let me tell you, the book is BAD. It combines Christian morals with Greek mythology and veneer of scify and a worldbuilding that doesn't make sense
Knowing that the Cait/Lily conversation was written by a published author gives me hope that being terrible at writing is not longer a barrier to entry.
@@edgarallanpoe209 - Oh, that's not even a recent thing, that's just Sturgeon's Law. But yeah, it does make me realise that I criticise myself out of writing what would apparently be perfectly publishable dogshit-tier prose all the time. Can't decide whether that's a bad thing or not.
@@edgarallanpoe209 - Oh. It was going to be about a fantasy version of the Height of the Raj where Indian witches infect the British with occult syphilis. Probably not the same demographic.
I find it deeply embarrassing that she's an author but doesn't know enough about writer's voice to change hers to cover her tracks when she's making fake messages.
Reads with Rachel got an ARC of her book and...yeah it's pretty consistent with the quality of her writing. She doesn't understand character, plot, or setting either.
Then the Lily becoming a straight up villain. LMAOOO, I couldn't help but laugh at the pic "Lily" sent, a plot twist for sure. 😂 Also, even though it's a fake convo the way she was talking to "Lily" was horrible.
People are so worried that Cait facing consequences for her actions will set a precedent for all authors, but it's super easy to avoid a similar situation...just don't do insane, racist stuff like she did.
the fact that one of the authors who got reviewbombed got far mroe flak and harassment for voicing heir frustrations than cait did for literally threatening the careers of several authors of color is very telling
Right? Anytime anyone’s like “But BUT PRECEDENT” It’s always shit that like…YEAH. Maybe it should have already been precedent? Why are you against This very specific series of events being punished???
I’m surprised an author who was all set up to be published can’t make their two pretend discord characters read like two different people, you can tell both sides have the same writing style.
The book itself has a very immature writing style, too. It's like a self-insert fanfic style with a highly informal internal monologue narrator. Stuff like: "I wasn't sure what was going on, but, well, I guess that's just how these things go." Not a quote, btw, but how the writing is.
Can confirm. It was also plagued with italicized verbs, I literally couldn’t find a single page that didn’t have italics, which is a really common bad fanfic thing
I always say reading that exchange is like the definition of a shitty first draft.Just trite and boring. And, apparently from the other comments here, not too far off the mark from the final product. 🥴
They could've at least made 'Lily' have punctuation! Its a simple stylistic choice that at least gives the illusion that they are two different people, albeit superficially. Also, if this was not that long ago, Char GPT exists. If they were that bad at pretending to be someone else, should've at least used it as the basis for 'Lily.'
They are still being racist as none of what Cait did has anything to do with her skin color. Literally the only reason they call her deceptive white person is to project hate. Literally you could call out that horrible person without bringing up her skin color. The implication they are making is that her heinous actions are tied to her whiteness.
Do you think "Lilly" was a conscious or subconscious pick? Lilly is a classic girl's name of Latin origin, which stems from the lily flower. The *white* flowers represent purity, innocence and rebirth: in religious iconography, they often represent the Virgin Mary. But at the same time "Lilly" is also strikingly close to "Lie-lie" 🤣🤣
Ironically, Cait being resentful of other author's advances is largely unwarranted considering that, by all accounts, she got a pretty great deal, two books, pretty sizable advance, really good advertising plan. By all accounts, Cait was being set up for a lifelong career as an author, and yet all of that wasn't enough for her. Though, rumour around the author network is that Cait is a trust fund kid of Old South money so...maybe not so surprising.
Ooo that's juicy! The idea that Cait was seething because the stolen labor and money generated by her ancestors did NOT get her farther than people who's ancestors labor was stolen and were left with nothing-- is both funny and proof that God may exist and is a funny motherfucker.
So old Southern money heiress with a flourishing career feels threatened by, and attacks, POC for having less than half of what she does? It’s like the retelling of a tale as old as time.
This is why her actions were definitely based on her being a bigot. She had no reason to feel insecure and she purposely chose marginalized authors. She's got a hateful heart. I can't imagine she'll ever be able to write using her real name going fwd. Bt who knows, maybe she can write right wing fanfic now.
She was even going to have her book published in a book box known as Illumicrate with fancy trimmings like decorative dust jackets, stenciled edges, and most likely a beautiful character art on both the front and back end papers. There's authors out there that weren't being given that same treatment for sure... though it makes me wonder if they even read the book. From what I heard in review circles, the book was actually pretty bad- as in the writing wasn't very good. Maybe Cait should have seen what people thought of her book on a site like Wattpad where people would have given her reviews on the quality of her work before she went down the traditionally published route...?
Yes! I thought the same thing. I love their history videos, and hope to get around to reading their book soon…I was worried yet another creator I like was gonna turn out to be a s**thead lol Glad she was on the good side!
@@missdenisebee Just so you know, according to their presskit, "Please refer to me as They/Them. Despite my current appearance, I’ve struggled with my gender identity my whole life and much prefer neutral pronouns."
As someone who works in publishing, and is a tradpub author, it’s hard to describe just how completely insane this situation is. Pulling a book is almost completely unprecedented in the industry, especially not this quickly, which means there was a morality clause in her contract. Cait really really messed up. She essentially won the jackpot with her deal and the scale of promotion she was getting and threw it all away because she decided to be petty and review bomb her friends--including her best friend--instead of a little cringey and just make fake accounts to 5 star her book and do nothing else. I also ran in some similar circles as Cait back in the day and this doesn’t surprise me at all, she used to do the same thing to cosplayers and other fics.
Of course! A morality clause is a thing a publishing imprint might put in a contract that basically says they have the right to, for example, pull the book if the author behaves in a way that actively harms the house. This very rarely comes into play since most book community drama usually falls under free speech, but in the case of Cait Corrain she was actively review bombing books that were also at Del Rey. Bad reviews harm book sales, so likely what happened is that they invoked the clause, saying that she was sabotaging the imprint. It’s really hard to do something that invokes the clause, but her behavior was so definitive and it was pulled a week after the first tweet was made, so it’s almost definitely what happened
The tidbit about her doing this to cosplayers and fics is super interesting, wow. I'm not familiar with Cait or any of her circles so all this info is new and unfamiliar but I'm surprised no one brought that up (or if they did it wasn't brought up in this video, again I wouldn't know because I'm just hearing of this LOL). Did she get called out for it back then too? If so you'd think she wouldn't keep pulling this type of shit if people are aware she does it LMAOOOOOO
@@opo3628 obviously. but I mean it in the sense that an author saying something homophobic or racist online, and their book being pulled because of that (ie. twitter bios with "my opinons are my own" as a disclaimer and it gets pulled) is considered grounds for a lawsuit. Publishers want to avoid that so stuff like that usually isn't broached. An author who says shit like that will have trouble getting deals and stuff after, and their agent might drop them, but the retroactive release cancellation is an extreme rarity because of legal complications, unless the morality clause lists explicit grounds
How on earth did she think LITERAL AUTHORS wouldn’t figure out her texts were fake?? That they’d not pick up on how fanfic-y they feel?? But then again she was dumb enough to pull the whole review bomb stunt in the first place, as if the only book those accounts liked was hers wouldn’t look suspicious.
if i was messaging someone with the wattpad diction of that sock puppet account, there’s no way i’d believe i was speaking to an adult. i’d envision a preteen. so either she’s lashing out at a child or she’s just a horrible writer, because adults don’t talk like that let alone have the time to make 37 fake accounts to “help” an online acquaintance💀
The bit in the text conversation where Lilly the sockpuppet was like, "They're going brand you as racist now lol," just showed how resentful and afraid Cait is about being called that, which makes me think Cait has been called out before for racism prior to all this happening. It's the awareness of targeting POC authors specifically, then showing that she has an awareness that doing so is racist, and then making herself out to be the victim that is so unhinged. It's peak white fragility, absolutely disgusting behaviour.
She is prolly one of these people who think minority artists - authors, actors, etc- only get anywhere because of race getting a big push right now. .. When she should realize competent artists are just getting a chance now.
even if shes never been called a racist, she clearly is so offended by the fact that someone could be called that for what she considers not racist behavior that she had to write it into her little IRL fanfic.
@@Zectifinpeak “being racist is normal and correct but being called racist is a hate crime and I will evaporate in agony so never criticize how I treat anyone in the context of whiteness”
the saddest part is that, according to a lot of the people who got to review her book, it is pretty good, so she immolated her career for nothing, it would've performed great on its own but she had to be an unhinged fucking asshole
the goofiest part is that she had lily “realize” that the authors she review bombed were mostly poc. she invented this full-on mustache-twirler of a villain to use as a scapegoat and still went “ALL THAT RACISM WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE THO. THAT TOTALLY HAPPENS.”
@@dackattacThe thing that bothers me, as a white person, that was glossed over in the video is that the term "Albino snake" isn't just abilist, it's also racist. There's no particular reason in context to call out the race of the accused, which means it's specifically intended to bring to mind stereotypes.
Cait corrain reposts a lot of anti-Israel, anti-American and pro Palestinian stuff. Interesting isn’t it? It’s good to know what actual racists associate with.
@@grantstratton2239 baptiste and mooring have already resolved the meaning behind that tweet and settled their own differences, so there’s no need to feel bad for mooring! baptiste even said she didn’t intend to portray albinism as evil (not quoted). not to mention the use of “albino” was made to call out an author who was aware of her own place in the plague that is systemic racism and how she as a white author may be perceived as she harms POC authors, especially when she comes from old south trust fund money - hence the race being incredibly relevant. sayings like this are always made with cultural context that isn’t usually accessible to everyone, so i understand not getting it as someone who also doesn’t understand cultural phrases and idioms right away! however, with a bit of research and knowing of the intent, it seems fine to me - especially since again, this issue has already been resolved. hope that makes sense!
As someone who's read a few extended excerpts of Crown of Starlight and listened to a book summary from someone who *has* read the whole thing (bless their strong soul), I can honestly say that I cannot comprehend how in the hell Cait had actually managed to secure the publishing and promotional deals that she did in the first place. After apologizing to her review-bombed victims, Cait should then apologize to the rest of us for her attempt to inflict such a *GODAWFUL* novel upon the literary world.
@@MaGpeS If it's true, then I'm not surprised. The white rich conservative woman with unhealthy obsession of Reylo gets mad that communities she hates, like non-white and gay people, receive much better recognition for their talented writing skill, unlike her, who has no talent at all and made to the publisher so far only because of her parents money🤣
I have seen a lot of stuff in the genre that seems to have been just never or barely edited (like they are still in that episodic kind of fanfic structure) OR copy-edited at all. There are lots of wonderful books in that genre and lots of former fanfic writers whose books are great.
Well it seems like the book is very good At helping you out of the 'Ill never be a good writer' spiral. Everytime I watch a review of an Onision book I start writing.
I quit paying attention to Goodreads years ago. I knew about the fake bad reviews back then, and just couldn’t be bothered to trust any reviews anymore.
Mental illness is not an excuse to be abusive. I deal w mental health issues stemming from trauma and I’d never even think about behaving like this on my worst days, this is just who Cait really is.
@@MomeGnomethat might be a reason but not an excuse to treat others poorly. There are many addicted to drugs who could never do this, comparing them to her is honestly offensive.
It should be. I think we should advocate for allowing people with mental illness to use it as an excuse because it fits all the labels of one. It's kinda hypocritical to refuse them the ability to use their mental illness as an excuse when they are completely valid in expressing their feelings, even if it brings harm and suffering unto others.
Well, most for most mental illness, I would agree with you that it's not an excuse for bad behavior. But for me and other schizophrenics, if the case is psychosis, being schizophrenic is quite literally the only excuse there is for whatever delusion we are living at the moment. If I think you are a fake person, I might not treat you like a person, I might yell "Get the f*ck away from me" and that is uncalled for, but that information is not available to me at that moment. I've felt awful for my behavior just before I was diagnosed, suffering my first psychosis, but I have decided to stop beating myself up for it because I couldn't have done anything differently. "I" was not there that day, a scared person trying their best to help but failing.
A friend of mine is a 2024 debut author and fully pulled me aside at work to tell me all this gossip as it was blowing up. Truly just buck wild behaviour
As much as I didn't want to bring this up because I was debating its relevance, I've got to say it. Cait's behaviour is not surprising to me in the slightest, especially from the perspective as a fic author myself. There's a specific term used in many fanfiction circles called 'dog-piling' where a fic author feels so threatened by the presence of another writer in their shared fandom, that they will create multiple sock puppet accounts or even force their fandom friends/readers to bully and harass the other author by review bombing or sending abusive messages to their work(s). The intent of these attacks are made very clear. The perpetrator wants to chase the other author from fandom or even to force them to stop writing entirely. The fact that Cait was so confident that she wasn't going to get caught makes me suspect that she resorted to doing this even as a fanfic author. Though without proof, take what I say with a grain of salt. If my suspicions are correct: Cait attempted to weaponize a well known bullying tactic in fanfic circles to potentially sabotage and cause harm to other authors whose books were set to be released next year. She even created accounts that were pretending to be the very races of the authors she was going after, including one of a Chinese immigrant woman who went after an Asian author and called into question the authenticity of that author's depiction of her own culture. The only thing is that she was caught out for this before she was successful. I can imagine the surprise Pikachu face that Cait had when she realised that she was exposed because I bet that she expected this to turn out differently for her. Cait is a joke. Her book (from what I heard) was a poorly written atrocity to literature, and deep down I expect she knew that and that is why she lashed out at other authors. As far as I am concerned, Cait can take her sorry excuse of a non-apology and shove it.
I'm noticing a lot of newbie writers and artists using old fandom bullying tactics in professional industries and it's not only creating toxic work environments, but it's also just so childish. Keep that amateur baggage in the forums or better yet, just be normal and don't review bomb your competition whether they are fanfic authors or professional writers.
The thing about published books... It's a GOOD thing if your work reminds people of another book (usually). As long as it's unique, the same reader will want to read ALL the books that are like that. If they like one Sci Fi Greek Retelling, then they very likely will like other Sci Fi Greek Retellings. So there's no value to be had in talking down on other authors who are doing retellings. Their fanbase could wind up being your fanbase.
Actually this is informative. There had been story where Cait had actually accused a fellow Reylo writer of plagiarism. Said writer was lucky because she got some big fish friends who supported her. Thinking about it, I am worried if she did the same with other writers too... especially those that are not that lucky...
As a fanfic writer myself, seeing all the talented authors on Twitter... I just, can't understand her audacity and motive to do such things. Seeing all those talented authors on twitter, that are very underrated, I'd want to give them all the and support recognition that they deserve and hell, they are so cool, I'd want to befriend them and not make enemies. It's just so uncalled for...
R.F. Kuang must be bathing in money right now after this controversy. She is not joking about that kind of insufferable author in Yellowface, as its adaptation is already happening in real time.
@@runa_7022Literally this lol The summary of Kuang’s books always have me interested then I start reading and, personally, go oh god what is this writing style. Babel was the end of the line for me 😭
@@chickenapplepie3141By the way, did you know that colonialism is bad? Again, colonialism is a really bad thing. I need to make sure you understand that deep topic, so reaffirm my ego that you understand my text and my "intricate" writing.
Cait corrain reposts a lot of anti-Israel, anti-American and pro Palestinian stuff. Interesting isn’t it? I always knew anti American and anti Israel people were the real racists.
I didn't hear about that part between Bethany Baptiste and Meredith Mooring. I am glad that they took the time to speak in private once their emotions had cooled off, realised it was all a big misunderstanding, and both offered genuine apologies to each other. You know, unlike Cait Corrain.
It was nice to actually see two people settle their differences, apologize and just go on with their life. We need more people to do that instead of constantly doubling dowm
@@mcheesey123because she used a term for a disability in an insult? How would she feel if people used racist expressions to insult a non POC person? There are words that should be used with care and “albino” is one of them
@@molybdomancer195Its like you watched this video with your eyes closed and ears closed ahe literally said it's a saying in the south which it IS, She was referring to a actual snake that is white not meredith, she even saya she did not know meredith has albinonism, you can't insult someone about a disability they have if you don't know, and if you read the original post where does she mentioned anything about a person with albinonism at all in what context. Y'all clearly don't like to read or listen and it shows.
@@mafille-vh9pn I understand that Bethany meant "albino snake" in terms of a devious person among friends. But, in terms of the context, Bethany didn't say she was talking about Cait and left it up to readers as to who the "albino snake" was. Which in tern could have lead people to harass Meredith just because they know Meredith is Albino and thought Bethany was talking about her. So Meredith called her out on not using said term. It was a simple misunderstanding on both sides. Though I swear I've seen posts from POCs getting seriously angry for idioms like "pot calling kettle black" and "dark humor". And I've been called out using the colloquialism "you guys" in comment sections before even though it is a local Northerner thing to do.
The apology at 17:55 infuriates me. As someone who actually suffers from anxiety and depression, having a breakdown is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. Even if you do something bad while having a breakdown, you are still responsible for what you've done and have to own up to it and make legitimate steps towards correcting your mistakes. I have zero respect for people who use their mental illnesses as a means to try to get away with being shitty people
and the fact that the affected authors wanted to handle it privately 😮 she just really didn't want to take accountability and was gonna blame anything she could
THIS! it's absolutely the case that sometimes, we act on impulse, say or do things we know are wrong, and hurt other people as a direct result of mental illness, BUT, as i always say - i may not always be able to control these impulses, but i can always and will always do my best to mitigate the harm and do what's need to make up for the hurt. as a less intense example, my ADHD often causes me to talk over or interrupt someone in a conversation. believe me, try as hard as i might, i can't control it - a thought enters my head, i tune out the other person, and next thing i know, i'm blurting out some new tangent. there's no excuse for it, i wish it didn't happen, but it does, so what i must do is simply acknowledge it - "oh i'm sorry, i didn't mean to cut you off there," - and then remedy the problem - "please, continue with what you were saying." i don't make a big fuss out of it either, i don't make it a pity party with "oh gosh i'm so sorry, you see my brain is just fucked up, i have to deal with t his terrible ADHD that makes my life hell, this always happens to me and it makes my life so so difficult, and i only wish it would go away, but that's just how it goes..." it's not about me!
I figured something was off. As someone who has a family member suffering with depression, anxiety and other things that they have to take all these meds for never in his life has he acted out especially not like this. But thank you for your comment i was looking for this.
Exactly!! The fact that she puts her mental health and addiction issues first in the apology rather than the actual apology, trying to drum sympathy as she states it as an excuse, says A LOT about her character.
She makes us with depression and addiction issues look VERY BAD and its not like we don't hear insults every other day ☠ hope this mental facility she's going to is real tho, girl needs some serious therapy ☠
Yeah, that's really shitty of her, and I say that as someone who had to pop multiple pills today to get by. Like, I'm sure her mental health struggles are driving this maladjusted behavior because this isn't the behavior of an emotionally healthy and confidently happy person, but that doesn't mean it's her poor mental health that is the cause. She is choosing to use self-aggrandizing coping mechanisms that harm others instead of healthy ones, and that's a flaw in her character, not a matter of her mental health. When I deal with confidence issues, I don't go drag other people down, I practice mindful choosing to find vicarious joy in the success of others. She has other options, she just chooses detrimental ones.
@@emexdizzyit can be the cause, the problem isn't that, mental health shouldn't be stigmatised but it also shouldn't be sugarcoated, the problem isn't that her mental health problems may have caused this to happen is how she acted afterwards by not taking responsability for it and trying to get out of trouble by just blaming her addiction and mental health. Also, not everyone has access to information about healthier coping mechanism or can cope in healthier ways without help, or can challenge their more problematic thoughts and behaviours, saying tou don't hurt other people because you know how to cope and it's trying hard is nice, but it doesn't say much about other people, society as a whole doesn't value or make mental health treatment easily available.
@bluester7177 mmm dunno if we can fully say this was caused by her mental health. But it might have made her double down on things she already wanted to do. Having a mental breakdown, is not going to make you be racist or target people, you have to already be insecure and racist to do that. But that being said her mental health might have something to do with it. She may have already had those thoughts, and when she was low it influenced her to act in them more than she would if she were sound of mind and sober. But the core issues are still there. She still targeted people of color, and she still clearly looked down on her debuts, or this wouldn't have happened. Having a mental disorder might make bad ideas seem more reasonable than they should be, but they don't *make* you do it. She still has to understand that while yes, her mental health may have played SOME role, she probably still has these issues when she's sound of mind. And she needs to unpack that. I know plenty of people who drink too much, but only some of them are abusive. The alcohol didn't make them abusive, it just showed their true colors.
No. When her behavior issues are caused by her mental health issues, then she is allowed to say that. Mental illness can cause all sorts of ugly behavior. That doesn't mean a person has no responsibility for their actions or that they don't have to face consequences. It just means that the reason they acted a certain way is because of symptoms caused by mental illness. Not everyone has resources or a support network to reach a stable place. Not everyone gets better from medication or therapy. Would it be dishonest of me to say that my OCD causes me to be late for things because I get trapped doing compulsive behaviors? My friends are allowed to be dissapointed and upset and feel like I should be able to overcome those compulsions, but that doesn't mean that I am lying or trying to avoid responsibility. That is just the truth. I can be honest with friends that I don't know if I will be able to make it and try to do everything I can to make things easier for them, but it won't end up with me coming over. It will end up with me not making plans in the first place, because I literally cannot control my symptoms. I understand it is my responsibility, which is why I'm in therapy and take medication and make people aware before making plans about these issues I have. Also, mental illness can actually be so severe that you literally cannot be held responsible for your actions, so this isn't some black and white thing. I would argue that having a bad reaction to a medication is an example where someone shouldn't be blamed, considering there was no way they could have known that they would be affected in that way and thus couldn't possibly have prepared to cope with those symptoms in a healthy way. It seems like you think that if a person's harmful behavior was caused by mental illness or a medication reaction, then that means their bad behavior was totally fine and that they wouldn't have any consequences. That isn't true, though. Whether or not a behavior is okay has nothing to so with intention. For example, it will never be okay to harm a child, even if it was an accident, so acknowledging that it was an accident doesn't suddenly absolve the person of responsibility or punishment. It just absolves them of being seen as a bad person who wanted to do such a thing. When saying that someone's behavior is due to their mental illness, you are making a distinction between their behavior and who they are as a person. It's important to have compassion and consider that they may not have had the resources or support to overcome their symptoms. Even in this example, you are allowed to be upset and hurt by their actions and think they should be held accountable Really, the only thing that isn't okay for you to do, is for you to claim that a person's mental illness or a bad medication reaction isn't what caused their feelings/thoughts/experiences/behavior. When you do not know anything about a person, especially not what they are going through psychologically, you have no right to make any claims about whether their actions could have been due to mental illness or medication side effects. So instead of hurting your peers and spreading misinformation all because society doesn't know how to comprehend that different people are affected by mental illness in different ways, you could try to to have a more nuanced view of agency and responsibility when it comes to mental illness, and focus on the wellbeing of your peers who face the same discrimination as you, and will face even more of it if people continue to act like mental illness can't cause someone to struggle with their behavior.
@@orchdork775 What you said is true. Maybe in the moment she engaged in harmful behavior genuinely caused by her mental health issues, but that seems doubtful. She demonstrated a prolonged pattern of behavior that involved both harmful actions and subsequent lies to cover it up (elaborate lies, too). Her apology reads like someone trying to entirely blame their shitty behavior on mental illness and not take any kind of accountability for what she did. I'm not saying that mental illness cannot cause you to engage in harmful behavior, but her explanation seems very disingenuous and not like a real apology.
GoodReads has always been a giant dumpster fire. I lost track of the number of “unhinged author” as well as “unhinged reviewer“ controversies on the website, all of them badly handled by the staff. And that was years ago. It certainly changed my image that bookworms were these quiet, thoughtful, erudite people.
I don't think its necessary a goodreads issue. Authors were probably always flipping out about reviews they don't like - but some of them probably need to not engage unprofessionally with critics on social media. A bunch have popped off on twitter over the years too. There is not going to be any book that everyone gets on with. Snapping at a critic almost always makes them look bad. If someones book review is not well done - you will see that.
Hey, lots of us bookworms still ARE quiet, thoughtful, erudite people! But to your point, "unhinged" happens a lot, regardless of the industry or people group.
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned that in the Goodreads email sent to Cait, it very clearly says, “Please refrain from engaging in activity of this nature in the future to avoid being banned.” If her storytelling is as thought out as her planning, then I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t read her book.
Yes, thanks for pointing this out! I came into this video with no idea about the drama and I IMMEDIATELY knew Cait was inflating her ratings because of that line in the email. Goofy!!
Almost certainly Goodreads detected suspicious activity from the same IP address and possibly matched the identical sockpuppet/user activity. I don't think she was using a VPN.
I understand why Meredith acted the way she did. There is a very real history of people with albinism being treated with suspicion and disdain just for having albinism. However this is also definitely a “keep it in the dms” moment
There's places where they eat them, they eat their flesh, because they think it's medicinal and "albinos aren't real people anyways, they're ghosts". The other author should just have said "Sorry, I didn't know, I appologize." I dunno why this was all pinned on Meredith.
True, if I knew Meredith or had albinism then I probably would have thought they were talking about that person or myself in particular. She definitely should've dmed the person who said it instead of doing what she did, like you said.
She had no involvement with the situation tho and continued to double down instead of apologizing for assuming....in no way shape or form did anyone think that post was Abt her except for her
About the whole albino drama, it's reasonable to ask people to abstain from using that as a slang term. Black people can be albino too btw and in Africa it's a huge problem that albinos are often murdered.
Stop painting Africa as a country when it's a continent. Where on the continent are they being mrdered? It isnt some common occurrence in every African country but yeah, a "huge" problem. Gtfoh 🙄
@reikun86 I live in the south, and I don't think I remember hearing anyone using that phrase, nor calling it the albino snake. But it's slang, so it just might be a unique thing in her area?
i can't blame meredith for thinking the term 'albino snake' was about her, when they're in the same discord group and she is, i presume, the only albinistic one in the discord. if she hadnt heard of the term before, of course she'd take it literally.
Even Austin is against her which is weird. The term is albino snake. Which means a snake that is an albino. How all these women yelled at her for assuming it was about her, when she is the only one with Albanism, is bizarre. If you call someone a “crippled Karen” And a crippled person thinks you’re talking about them, it’s just as bizarre to say “NO, CRIPPLED KAREN JUST MEANS A LAZY KAREN“
@@django9898because the term albino snake, as in a literal white snake, isn't used towards people with albinoism. It literally just means white snake, also the problem here isn't Meredith thinking it was about her and even getting upset at that thought, it's about the doubling down after it was confirmed that it wasn't about her and then the double down when Bethany explained the term. Human beings aren't the only things that can get albinoism and the crippled Karen thing makes no sense. It's just plain offensive and it's clear who the offense is towards. This was a clear misunderstanding that could have been solved if Meredith had not wanted to paint herself as a victim to try and distance herself from being friends with Cait.
The albino snake remark may be a common idiom in some communities, idk, but it should be retired because albinism is a real illness. It doesn't matter if the remark wasn't intentionally directed at an albino person.
Should we retire using it for animals too? Because that's how is used here, whites snakes are whitw either because of albinism or leucism, is more of a racist comment calling a white person an snake than a comment on albinism.
@@pauloabrantes383 Meredith isn't the only person in the world with albinism and other people can see it. I do think the way she spoke about mental health was kind and lovely even while calling out Cait and the right way to approach this (again because this is public twitter and comments about mental health apply to more than just Cait).
23:37 is kinda crazy bc I'm black and southern AND have never heard that saying, nor could I find any reference online that is a separate conversation from Bethany's mention of it. not saying it's not said, but I'm very skeptical. I also met several albino black people in college so it really doesn't check out in logic. I don't think Bethany meant any harm by it (nor did she intend to specifically call our Meredith), but I also don't think it's an appropriate thing to say because anyone can be albino (and several other reasons). I don't think Meredith should feel any fault for 'misunderstanding Black southern vernacular' because offensive black vernacular shouldn't be protected just because it's a part of our culture.
I fully agree. I think Meredith may have jumped into a conversation that wasn't about her. But, man that is not a cool phrase to use and I feel like too many people are defending it.
@@MC-yt1uv Is it not about her though? If I am hearing a conversation in my extended circle and a phrase with that much slur energy towards my demographic just rolls out, I think it would very suddenly become partly about me. Especially when the key word is not something used in English except when talking about said demographic.
I'm a black southern too and it's said a lot and Meredith had nothing to do with the drama so why would she feel called out when she wasn't suspected in the first place....she continued to argue with her after and called her abilest after she explained sge wasn't talking Abt her....
@@QuartzChrysalisfrom my understanding, she wasn't in that circle where the accusations were coming from. They had a discord group and she had joined 3 hours after the initial tweet was made. I don't know a lot about the relationships between them all, but it'd be hard to point the finger at someone for sabotoging the group when they're not in the group, methinks.
I am so sick of people using mental health issues as a crutch or excuse as to why they do shitty things. She did not take full accountability because the entire first paragraph is her excusing her behavior through a laundry list of personal problems. Yes, mental health issues can affect how you respond to people but it's not an excuse! I have severe mental health issues and when I mess up I actually acknowledge it and work on trying to do better because I don't want to be a bad person!
I have no issue believing that this cait person is mentally unwell, someone who is of a sane disposition doesn't do what she did, but just because she clearly has poor mental health doesn't mean she should get a free pass or that she gets to be forgiven for what she did, mental illness might be an explanation for people's actions but it is never going to be a valid justification or excuse for them
As a prescribed I have seen countless people ruin their lives following manic episodes caused by antidepressant medication. Respectfully, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
I could kinda see this being a manic episode which can be caused by meds as far as I’m aware. I don’t think calling it a psychotic break as she did was accurate, if it was in fact a manic episode, if anything happened at all. Like this seems like some shit that could happen during a manic episode. From experiencing those of friends of mine. Nothing excuses the racism though.
@@BryanJohnson4891well these accounts were over a period of a few different months and she could have removed them afterwards or not blamed a fake person so no they do know what they are talking about she had many ways to avoid this exact outcome and be responsible for the harm she did to others. her illness doesnt mean she should be allowed to do those things. it was also pointed out in the replies on her apology that she claimed to start her meds in november yet there were false reviews from april so... did the medicine time travel.. weird lmao.
As someone with both professional and personal xp in this- respectfully, I think the Cait person should seriously invest in some therapy. I hate speculating on ppl disorders, but I actually felt bad for her for sabotaging herself so hard for no reason.
Two years ago I started a new medication that made me manic-depressive and I spent a ton of money, as well as feeling s*icidal ideation. Medicine CAN absolutely make you have a mental breakdown. It gave me an impulse disorder, basically, and I still struggle with it. I believe someone could act out on an impulse they normally wouldn't because of medication. But I don't really buy it in this case, tbh. Sounds like a play for sympathy after getting in trouble for something she didn't think she'd be caught for.
Yeah it rubs me the wrong way that people are like "medication/psychosis can't do that" when the real issue is a larger pattern of manipulative behavior and not taking accountability
Personally as someone who has albinism, I can totally understand the reaction to the the saying, I would be hurt too. Albinism is a common trope used by big media for villains or weird and singled out characters and as such sayings like "albino snake in a hen house" further solidify these stereotypes. Why, if you know that the traitor is white, can't you use just "white snake" instead of using a disability, who struggles against villain tropes and stereotypes. I mean to this day and age there are countries in which Albinos are killed or severely maimed and tortured for spiritual reasons. But I'm glad, that both could talk and put their differences aside.
I keep seeing you albino folk replying saying the media often portrays villains as albino and I'm wondering if you could list a few for me, because I don't think I've ever seen any. If anything, everyone seems to think albinism is really cool because you are pale and ethereal etcetc.
@@KryaDiere To preface these examples, albinism in general isn't portrayed really often, but in the cases it's portrayed it's in the form of a villain and/or outcast. I think the most famous example are the twins from Matrix Reloaded, but there are many others like: -The original Tombstone from the Spiderman comics is an African-American with Albinism -Batmans enemy Ra's Al Ghul turns albino (I'm not completely familiar with the storyline, and there a some more minor Batman Villains who are albino or albino coded) -Moby Dick is also Albino, in many variations, despite the original source only having a whale with a white head, not a full fledged albino -Mr. Sinister from X-Men was portrayed albino from time to time -Mr. Joshua from Lethal Weapon -The Albino from the Princess Bride -Albino from End of Days -The main Villain, Prince Nuada from Hellboy 2 -Members of "The Family" from The Omega Man -El Blanco from the third Tremors -The White Witch from Disney's The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is heavily coded to be albino -Lord Shen from Kung Fu Panda -Roy Batty from Blade Runner -Silas from the Da Vinci Code Book is described as albinistic, but the Movie casted Paul Brittany -Griffin from The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells -Lavinia Whatley from H.P. Lovecraft's "The Dunwich Horror" -Pollution from Good Omens -The Albino from the Star Trek Deep Space Nine Episode Blood Oath -Samuel Aboah from X-Files -Anadil from the Book Series The school for Good and Evil (In Netflix Adaptation she was recasted) I tried to include villains and/or characters designed to be creepy and bad from all forms of media: Comics, Movies, Series and Books. Furthermore I included older and recent things. Not all of the listed characters are outright said to be albinistic, but they are all heavily implied to be: (really pale/translucent skin, red or purple eyes, aversion to sunlight, White or light blond hair) What also is quite infuriating about the presentation of albinism, is that with most of these characters the depiction of their albinism is completely unrealistic (good or extraordinary eyesight, the ability to walk and endure places with strong sunlight/UV ) Most Albinos have extreme poor eyesight and we have zero protection against sunburns, so being in a place like a Desert or even Australia is quite hazardous, especially without proper protection at the sun.
@@Kathys-corner I think I know where Meredith was coming from, since white snakes in nature are extremely rare and usually a result of albinism, so in her head it made sense to refer to (whoever she was discussing) as an albino snake rather than just "a white" snake, however I also concede that albino characters are almost exclusively included in stories to up the creep-factor. In the case of Silas from The Da Vinci Code, I thought he was actually a very sympathetic albino character but there was much outrage over the character being albino and one of the villains, so Bettany was cast in the role and they chose not to give him red eyes, like the book character had. I thought it was a bit of an overreaction in that case, because the actual character is only a villain because the story's real villain (or one of them anyway) took advantage of Silas being an orphan and an outcast and turned him into a living weapon that also suffered greatly due to the violence his 'master' demanded of him. I thought Silas was a pretty nuanced character, tbh. His albinism wasn't why he was a villain, he was manipulated into being a villain because society treated him like shit for having albinism and it made him vulnerable.
@@Listening_Books12345 Silas is actually one of the better characters on the list, but that doesn't influenced the bigger picture, that Albinism is often used to give villains a creep factor. I quite like Sakrileg/ The Da Vinci Code and I enjoyed how Paul Bettany portrayed Silas, but for me personally there will always be an icky feeling, seeing the evil albino trope in use, regardless how good or bad the character is.
Albinism runs in my family and I completely agree...like it just doesn't need to be part of the saying? Like would you replace that word with ANY other disability?? No. Because it would be weird. It doesn't matter if it's about that creater at all, it still shouldn't be being said. And white snakes aren't even albino, they're leucistic. Snakes with albinism are bright ass yellow
Did she really think that we’d think that fake convo would trick people? If good reads thought it was the author it’s because it was all from the same ip 🤦🏼♀️ girl thought she was a cyber sleuth mastermind but was just another creepshow
I’m not familiar with the albino snake descriptor even if I was it completely makes sense that an individual with albinism would assume albino snake was in reference to them. I don’t think the term should get a pass, it’s easy to see that it is offensive. Meredith might have come to an understanding with Bethany but Meredith does not speak for all people with albinism. Also, Cait can go eff herself because wtf that was completely messed up.
Yeah, I agree, I get that tensions were running high for everyone and Bethany was dealing with someone trying to undermine her life's work. But, "albino snake" is not a cool phrase to use and should definitely get retired. Especially given that I can't think of a single positive portrayal of someone with albinism in media, they are always used as a joke or to signify that someone is abnormal or dangerous.
And at the end, Bethany said she forgave Meredith because she “was satisfied with her answers.” Even if you don’t intend to insult someone, maybe acknowledging how “albino snake” could be taken wrongly and apologizing for that instead of doubling down and saying “that’s just what we say where I come from”. Meredith is also part of a marginalized community and we need to listen to folks when they say our language could be taken the wrong way (but also yes adding albinism in a historical context not being viewed in a positive light at all).
@@xletragedyx They were part of the same groups on some platforms. And Meredith has a fairly rare and distinct condition. And while it is likely that Bethany had no idea that Meredith was albino it is also public available information so it is information that Bethany could have easily found. I think it is entirely reasonable if you are the only person in a social circle with albinism that you might be the "albino snake" that was being referenced. Bethany's tweet was fairly cryptic. It wasn't clear what the "albino snake" had done just that there was one. So I think it is reasonable for Meredith to assume she was being attacked even if she didn't know what for. To be clear I think Meredith probably jumped the gun and overreacted. But, I think it isn't right to use albino as part of a derogatory phrase.
I knew about this controversy and I know Xiran Jay Zhao, but the thumbnail design *is* a little misleading with the pictures of two women and the phrase "she got caught..." Because Xiran is on the left, after you read the phrase you automatically jump to her pic next. For a split second I got scared that Xiran was the one who got caught doing something wrong, not Cait 😅 Good vid, just wanted to share a minor concern over the thumbnail since I got spooked lol.
See, though, I think most people invested in BookTube know that Xiran uses they/them and thus would have to think Austin is mispronouning Xiran to assume "she" is in reference to Xiran. Alternatively, some people don't know Xiran goes by "they" which isn't an Austin problem, it's more of a "oh, the more you know" moment.
tbf to Meredith Mooring I also would've thought that tweet was about me if I were her, I've never heard the term "albino snake" being used to refer to someone before watching this
U wouldn't tho because she he ad nothing to do with the drama and wasn't even involved in it and Bethany stated that so why continue to argue and can someone abilest when u two don't know each other, they were both in the wrong
when I was 12 i entered an art contest that would be decided by online voting so I went to Runescape and started gifting people stuff and sending them to the site to vote, but I was sure I was doing something illegal so I told them to just "vote for whichever drawing you like best :)" so when the cops came they wouldn't send me away for too long
I have psychosis and psychotic breaks- and it is very easy and well on that someone can do exactly what she did. It's like reality breaks, and you have one or two thoughts strung together and you have to act on them in some way and not to mention the delusion and hallucinations that come with a psychotic break or an episode of psychosis. Here's why she *actually* doesn't have it: Most people who go into psychosis that I know of or are dealing with psychosis with substance issues know and realize what they did and just double down and say they did it or realize after the fact how wrong it was and do everything to fix it. An example from me personally- in a drunken stupor I entered psychosis and believed one of my best friends was a succubus on the earth the tempt my boyfriend specifically because I was the closest to an angelic being she knew. So, I cut up or destroyed everything in my room that might seem "devilish" and messaged and called her telling her all these horrible things. Thankfully, this was the first time it happened and about six hours after when I awoke from my psychotic breakdown I realized I had really fucked up and apologized dramatically. However, Cait does not show psychosis because she clearly had premeditation and believed and knew while she was doing it what she was doing was wrong. In my moments of breaks from reality the moral scale and compass of right from wrong are totally different because your perception and understanding of the world has become twisted. I believed in every way what I did was right with my friend, that I was saving the world and doing a justice by fighting a demon. Cait was just insecure and knew it was wrong to do what she did when she did it, and further then kept ALL OF THE ACCOUNTS UP even after coming back to reality. And covering it up with sloppy manipulation is not something people with real psychosis typically do. This woman is a racist narcissist who is giving people with real issues a bad rap because of her violent misrepresentation of what it is. I am disgusted with her.
the answer as to why she chose that specific author's list is all hidden in the phrase "they'll call you a racist too" the fact she wrote that preemptively feels REALLY telling about the spite she feels towards successful POC authors. this sentiment is not unique and it reflects horribly on literature as a whole.
I worry about how this and other dramas from former fan fiction and online authors will affect publishers future willingness to sign similar authors in the future.
I really don’t think it’ll affect it much, as Fifty Shades got so popular at first because it was fanfiction and I think that’ll push away the concerns with a drama like this, honestly.
Regardless of where you are from using Albino as a derogatory term, is wrong. Think before you post Bethany!! She should have apologized as well for her poor choice of words. There are many vernacular phrases that are not used today because they a racist, homophobic, and ablest. As a writer she should choose her words wisely and think of ALL People.
@@mcdonalds-sprite I don't think using albino was the greatest but I do also think that its possible she is getting piled on unkindly. People can absolutely have a dialogue about disability but no one should be harassing her. Nobody should be calling her racist or threatening her (some of this was on twitter I don't doubt there was some unhinged behaviour).
@@JennyCThree Oh for sure, she doesn't deserve to be harassed or threatened (a lot of unhinged people on twitter so I wouldn't be surprised). I just felt like she was pulling the victim card because she received backlash. I do understand your point about the dogpiling though and I can see how she might've felt ganged up on in the group chat. I hope she's doing okay and staying safe from twitter weirdos.
@@JennyCThree People shouldn't harass her but she also should have apologized. And then there is the added irony of people also harassing Meredith Mooring saying that she was racist. Pretty much everyone acted badly in this situation. But, I am disappointed in the amount of people defending the use of "albino snake".
the whole phrase she used is racist and she seems to think she is justified because it's just part of her ethnic vernacular like that suddenly makes it okay.
I have never heard of this author or her debut book in my life, but if that fake convo is an indicator of her writing skill...then it's great that I didn't plan to read it lol
I feel like the Bethany v. Meredith thing could have been avoided if Bethany just said “Sorry, I didn’t mean to insult you, I was talking about someone else” and Meredith replied “no problem, sorry for overreacting.” and both of them accepted responsibility for their own actions, you know, like reasonable adults, instead of bickering like children.
But Bethany literally said it wasn't about Meridith, the one that doubled down was Meridith, from what I gathered, these people didn't even know or followed each other and Meredith wasn't even in the group before this, she entered to accuse Bethany of being ableist.
@@bluester7177The way you say things is often just as important as the things you say. I’m not saying Bethany was in the wrong. She is entirely within her rights to feel indignant and upset at being accused like that. However, I feel that her initial response only served to escalate the situation. While it did explain her point of view, it also dismissed Meredith’s, and I can see why Meredith would double down after that. That is not to say that either of them was more at fault than the other. Meredith shouldn’t have addressed this publicly. When you’re in front of others, there’s a lot more pressure to push back and defend yourself. The social pressure of being “called out” in front of a group of people you admire combined with the inflammatory nature of the remarks pressured Bethany to snap back and the rest was history. So although I may have expressed myself poorly in the comment above, all I meant to say was that if either of them had taken a more stable approach to the matter, it wouldn’t have gotten quite so big.
@@phraseology6858 Bethany was ultimately more in the right than Meredith, at least at first, because Meredith should have reached out in private and not assumed the post was about her. But it's not a good look that Bethany flounced out of the chat claiming "I don't feel validated here" after she completely invalidated Meredith's perspective. I blame Twitter clapback culture. I get that this is a semi-private group, but it's one for newly professional authors. Act professional. Reach out to resolve disputes in private. Give other people the benefit of the doubt, even if you don't feel they've given it to you. Don't invalidate their criticism and perspective. Be the bigger person. Everyone was so immediately defensive that they couldn't just TALK TO EACH OTHER.
I feel like it's relevant to add that I checked out all the original links posted under the video and in Bethany's twitter she posted not only that Meredith and Cait are friends, but had some more conclusive evidence that this wasn't even about Meredith's perceived offense at mocking her disability, but was instead about obfuscating the truth of Bethany calling out Cait's review bombing. So really, it was never about Meredith's condition, and she doubled down only to distract from Cait, much like how in the video that whole issue is just a side story to the main content.
@@bluester7177 she was being ableist. she could do some self reflection and realize that saying "albino snake" is ableist. She could use the term "white snake" instead and it would have the same meaning without the ableist joke.
I made a separate comment bout it, but as a person with albinism, we are often already portrayed in media as the "bad guys"-probably because some ppl with albinism have eyes that appear red. But also, there are ppl of color with albinism. So to use "albino snake" to signify both whiteness and deceptiveness is pretty awful. I'm ethnically white, but from the POC with albinism that I've met, it can be even more alienating when you're a POC than when you're white. You stick out like a sore thumb from your own family members. Albinism is a disability. It isn't just a term that means "is white". It really can negatively impact the quality of someone's life, and it just shouldn't be used like that. It's like how we don't call things we find stupid or bad "gay" anymore-because that would be insinuating that being gay is bad.
@@FIRING_BLIND First off, people are still using gay as to something meaning bad. Secondly, "albino snake" is referring to snakes, and snakes are commonly used as an insult and everyone understands why, it's like pig, dog, monkey, etc. It has NOTHING to do with your condition and there is no need for us to change the language just because something has a similar name.
@@Soapy-chanthe issue isn’t that they are referring to a snake- it’s that the condition of albinism isn’t limited to snakes. The symbol of albino snakes is used to represent evil, like this tweet, but albinism is also used to represent evil in humans and show they are the villain. If the symbolism wasn’t the same with albino humans and animals it wouldn’t matter, but associating albinism with evil is not limited to animals. Her jump to assuming the comment was about her is stupid but the original tweet was weird
@@Soapy-chan But you do recognise that people using gay as an insult is shit, right? Using ANY disability as an insult is just as horrible as that. It has everything to do with people with Albinism and you not wanting to change language that is actually hurting people because it's inconvenient for you is ignorant and ableist.
@@Soapy-chan and the "albino snake" was refering to a light skinned person. The snake was a euphemism for a person, so saying an albino "snake" in this context means just as much a deceptive albino person as it means a deceptive white person. If an albino person in that group reads that, they will 100% apply that to themselves, because they *are* an *albino person* and they are being accused of being deceptive. Even if the intention was for "albino" as being read as "white" you can't be mad if an *actually* albino person will associate the term "albino" with themselves.
no but i really do think that bethany should have apologized. when you say "albino snake" an albino person might feel called out. other than that, bethany should have explained it is cait in the same tweet.
"i would have called u out explicitly", she says while this whole situation was caused by her not explicitly calling someone out. What a joke lmaooo beth go off ig tho 😂
Yeah, even if "albino snake" is not intended to referec people with albinism, it still literally uses the adjective "albino". What the fuck are albino people to extrapolate from that, that albino suddendly doesn't apply to them? It's using their disability as an insult. If you want to reference a white person, just say pale??? or *white*??
Isn't albino snake just a white snake? I'm not a native english speaker and I got her meaning, I think the problem here is just that people are so used to being attacked on the internet thst rhey feel everything is an attack, even when there is 0 indication that they are the target, these two people didn't even know each other, the callout is literally their first interaction.
I can understand Meredith being upset though. Especially when the term is being refrenced to some ambiguous person who's been doing bad things in a niche community you're a part of. If someone grew up experiencing ableism, intentional or not, they're probably sensitive to that stuff. @@bluester7177
@@bluester7177I think she could’ve very well just said white snake. I feel like she uses the word albino to be punchy, didn’t realize Meredith had albinism but still doubled down
Dont like how bethany (and others) see nothing wrong with her comment. Let alone the ableism of it, if people are familiar with that group of people, and know that someone with albinism is in that group, how are they supposed to take "albino snake" as not meaning the person with albinism? Sure, she didnt know and didnt think it would connect to meredith, but afterwards she shouldve apologized for how that couldve easily lead to people harassing the person most obviously implicated by that statement??
Bethany was so unempathetic and arrogant. Both her Meredith messed up but at least Meredith was mature enough to own up to her misunderstanding [which is justified imo considering the language Bethany used] and apologised. Bethany needs to get off her high horse, stop playing the victim and apologize too. "I was satisfied with her answers" literally made me eyeroll. Especially coming from a woc, she should know better how words being used in a derogatory way can hurt people.
Exactly, if i was het i would just apologize, explain what I meant, and say i would refrain from using the reference in the future. Its not that harddd
Did u not watch it Meredith dint apologize until later she should have stopped when Bethany told her it wasn't Abt her the first time...but no she continued to double down
I think it’s fair to say the phrase “albino snake” perpetuates stigma even if it’s not being used about an actual albino person. I know I feel hurt when I hear someone using the R-slur even if the target of their ire isn’t actually neurodivergent.
I don't like it either even if it refers to a white person's negative behaviors. Feels flavored with racism . I am not saying people who say it are racist but just saying I think that is a component of it.
I kinda feel like the negative connotation is still on ”snake”, not “albino”, but I can see your point for sure. Is “albino” in and of itself a kind of slur towards those with albanism? That would make it different. Kinda like how the non-pc version of “jerryrig” is racist because of the slur. You got me thinking. I am a reformed bigot trying to learn how to be PC.
I agree. There should've at least been a mutual apology there. But, yeah. As long as they are both satisfied with how it was left, I guess. While, I don't feel Meredith was entirely out of line as similar discussions have been had for other genetic conditions, etc. The public passive aggressiveness here shouldve been avoided from both of them and they shouldve just talked privately. Oh well. Such is the internet.
Yeah, it's kinda fucked that albino is part of an insult. Same energy as calling someone jewish for not sharing money. Kinda reveals a prejudice. Also that defense doesn't stand up. Does that mean people can say anything if its part of local vernacular? If it's normal in a town to use a given demographic as an insult...
@@QuartzChrysalis VERY valid point. It's one thing if you "don't know" which some times happens (I think back to an episode of Writing Excuses where one of the hosts used a saying that has its roots in being prejudiced against "gypsies" which in and of itself is a derogatory term to some) and even though they meant absolutely no harm and didn't know any better because it's a local vernacular----they were still called out for it and in good taste chose to issue an apology.
Genuinely shocked by the amount of people not recognising that using any disability to insult someone or insinuate some kind of evilness is ableist and hurtful
legit. so many people on twitter excuse their ableism but will split hairs to call anyone else the worst names in the books. ableism is never taken as seriously.
@@lesvianaura why add the word “albino” then when it’s already an insult? Why not just say “snake in the hen house” or better yet, “white snake in the hen house” to specifically refer to a white snake? You would think authors would care more about their diction? Bethany is acting like a black snake snake in the chicken house with that comment
Yeah, they got away with unintended ableism even if it was sincere and not meant as offense. Doesn't mean it can't be taken offensively and using albinism when describing white is really stupid. Just say white or literally any other description that doesn't involve conditions. The defense of historical use makes it even worse as if there aren't other problematic historical words that have been abandoned for something else.
@@jonessii Yessss TRUE they literally got away with it because they don’t like cait. Literally just say white snake Or even something else Just cause it’s apparently a saying doesn’t mean it isn’t offensive anyways lol
English isn't my first language but saying albino snake instead of just white snake is a little weird. People of colour can also be albino, it doesnt just implicate white ppl. I get that its a way of speaking but it doesnt justify it though. Idk maybe thats just me
English isn't my first language either and I got it the first time I read it but I live in one of the countries with most snakes in the world, so it isn't weird to me, I've seen an albino snake close and I know there are not many species that can produce white snakes, most of the time when they are white is when they have albinism or leucism, like the huge majortiy of the time.
It's semantics, but I feel like she probably mixed up mania with psychotic breakdown. I've seen people do some WILD things during a manic episode, they're not at all in their right mind and will do some completely out-of-character things. Not saying she ACTUALLY had a breakdown or episode, but I see people honing in on and nitpicking the words "psychotic breakdown" specifically.
I’m sure she wouldn’t like the non pc version of “jerryrigging”. It’s a used phrase where I’m from, but I doubt she’d like if I used that, even though it’s a part of my cultural vernacular.
Actually plenty of people do in the South. It's so funny to me that y'all will try to attack perceived ignorance by being informant yourself, case in point the racist who commented down below. Lol albino snakes exist and the term has NEVER been used to describe an actual person with albinoism. It's completely fine to say and it's been fine to say.
Cait is not the only person in this story acting immature af. She just keeps making everything about her from start to finish. Honestly, with the albinism thing, they should have just said oops, thats not what I meant I'm sorry if thats how it came across I know your experience with albinism must be hard. And Meredith would have then said oops I'm sorry I took this nuclear so quickly Mania makes a lot more sense as an explanation, so "psychotic break" is a weird take.
@@joosoo exactly! like i get that they didnt mean anything by what was apparently a popular idiom where she lived, but why did she instantly get mad and surprised when someone with albinoism sees 'albino snake' and thinks its about them?? like is it that hard of a connection to make? Meredith shouldn't have kept reading into it as if it was intentional ignorance or ableism but why was Bethany so pressed?? was it that hard to say 'oh im sorry, i genuinely didnt mean it that way as its a saying where im from referring to a specific animal. i sincerely apologise, would it be possible to delete the tweet so we can talk about it in private?' or smthn like that and boom! no argument. Why was she escalating things so hardddd. Both of them messed up but meredith comes across as way more justified by the end of that convo due to how unnecessarily defensive beth was, it was infuriating how everything went down. I do wish that meredith didnt immediately tweet about it and make it public, because that could genuinely have hurt beth's career and she jumped the gun too quickly. but also it was a very tiny jump if that makes sense?
It’s really funny to me how cait thought that going after this many writers not to mention one of which became famous purely because she had enough spite towards the live action mulan to create her entire online presence would be someone you can easily mess with get away.
The entire albino situation gives me the ick. I don’t think that phrase should have been made in the first place. Didn’t need to say albino, could have just said snake in the hen house. (Usually I have heard it as fox in the hen house but..) it doesn’t matter what race you are, anyone can have albinism. And Meredith being the author in the community with albinism makes sense why she would assume it was her. Also as someone with a disability people use our ailments in jokes all the time and I don’t always have a problem with it but it gets quite irritating sometimes.
Does anyone actually use the “albino snake” thing other than Bethany? I’ve NEVER heard it. Snake in the hen house? Of course. Snake in the hen house with specific characteristics to imply who is being referred to? Also. But albino snake? Oddly specific and requires more knowledge of snake than the average person has. Plus, is it really that hard to go “Oh, I am sorry. I meant ‘white’ and didn’t consider my words and their impact. I apologise and will refrain from using it in future. Thank you for pointing it out.”? Doubling down on BUT I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO ADD TO A NEGATIVE STEREOTYPE OF A DISABILITY BECAUSE EVERYONE AROUND ME DOES! is really not a great argument. I did follow the original drama, as I follow the author of “Iron Maiden” who collected the initial document…there are more details, but ultimately I am glad that authors are looking out for other authors and are policing people like this.
I get that albino snake isn’t meant to be an insult, but when someone with albinism reacted badly to it, it isn’t so nice to be super defensive about it. I would apologize for using this phrase and creating this misunderstanding if it were me, and wouldn’t act like I was there to only accept an apology. It just seems weird because albino was mentioned specifically and misunderstanding was kinda justified.
That would be fair if Bethany wasn't attacked by Meredith and treated as an ablesit, if people want respect they should give it. Bethany told her frankly it wasn't about her, yet Meredith continued to double down and attack Bethany, her defensive at getting called an ablesit was completely justified. While it was justified that Meredith may have thought it was about her, everything else after getting told it wasn't, falls flat.
So, in the queer, community we've recently begun a reckoning with misogynistic terms. I have to say: the way Baptiste defends ableist terms as Black slang reminded me exactly of the way gays got offended when women called out terms like "fish" and "snatched". If someone from a group that is ACTUALLY described by the terms you are using is telling you it's harmful, you don't get to say "No it's not because that's not what I meant." This is the same excuse sexists use, homophobes use, and, yes, even racists use: You've can't be offended by the way I talk because I didn't "mean" it offensively. That's...not how any of this works. Black slang can have vernacular that is harmful to other groups. Their ongoing systemic oppression does not absolve individual Black people of the self-reflection needed to overcome societally inborn ableism. I won't lie, the fact that an ACTUAL ALBINO apologized to HER doesn't really sit right with me.
Perfectly said. Baptiste got WAY to defensive in my opinion. It’s extremely difficult to confront your own problematic actions and behaviors but one AT LEAST needs to have an open mind and open to the idea that they might need to change. She was NOT having that at all.
last time i checked albinos born in Africa would be murdered at birth because of demonic connections or something that turned their skin white. meredith had all the right to not be excited about that. the mortality rates of albinos are much lower due to human intervention. you only get to say an offensive word if it targets you. i feel like I can say the f-slur to my gay friends, because I'm gay and we know each other like that. black ppl should know that saying its my culture is a bad excuse because imagine a white guy told a black man not to roam around his neighbourhood, because white culture makes it ok for him to say that. actually disgusting they weren't defending Meredith enough
ok sorry but meredith has a point about the "albino snake" thing being ableist. this is not a saying referring to a literal snake, it's a saying that uses "albino snake" as a metaphor for a white person. meaning you are using "albino", which is an actual disability that people can have, as a stand-in for "racially white". and the two important things about that are: 1) people of all races can have albinism, and being albino doesn't make someone a "white person", and 2) albino snakes aren't even completely white. quick biology lesson: albinism is a lack of melanin pigment, which is responsible for black & brown coloration. in humans and most mammals, melanin is the only pigment available, so albinism = no pigment at all = white skin/hair. but reptiles can have red, yellow, and blue pigments in addition to brown, so albino snakes are not necessarily white. an albino king snake, for instance, is pink and yellow - not white at all. most albino snakes are white with spots or stripes of red/pink or yellow. there _is_ a condition that results in complete white color for reptiles, which is called _leucism._ leucistic animals are lacking _all_ pigments, not just melanin, and will be completely white if they have full-body leucism (partial is piebalding). so the saying is not even referring to the correct condition for the metaphor it's trying to make, and it's using a real condition that real people - both white and non-white - can have instead. i do not blame meredith at all for assuming it was about her - i've never heard the saying with the "albino" added in before in my life, and i had the immediate reaction of "that's kind of an ableist variation on this saying, isn't it?" if you're a debut writer who's also very prominently albino, and you're the only person in that category that you know of, and you've never heard this variation on the saying before, why would you not assume it was about you? all the people defending the use of the term and telling her she was being unreasonable was really surprising to me tbh. especially the ones going "the saying is about a literal animal" because, uh, it's not? the animal is a metaphor for a person? like, very obviously so??? and just because a phrase is commonly used does not mean it can't be offensive. many other common sayings have fallen out of favor in recent years because people pointed out their problematic aspects, and i think this one needs to go the same way. "leucistic snake" is both more accurate to what's being expressed _and_ less offensive because leucistic humans do not exist. "oh but they say albino because people don't know what leucism is" so? they have google. use it enough and eventually this problem goes away.
IKR? Seeing them come out trying to look like heroes in this situation pisses me off so much. It’s been ten years of watching them make the Star Wars fandom hell for everyone else. They drove some of the best out of this fandom and made things hell for actual actors. I’m so mad that they’re using this situation to try to make themselves look good.
@@thotsandpears so true. i never understood why they so heavily attacked finn’s actor when it was the writers who for some reason tried to make him have feelings for rey. and literally no one shipped them together anyways so reylo’s were just being so nasty for no reason.
They really are. I vaguely liked reylo at the time, but quickly got sick of it when all the reylo shippers got so nasty to others. Like i just dont understand it. Its totally cool to like finnrey too - i certainly do. But reylo shippers were really on some other level with their bullhonky. I pretty much refused to watch the last movie because of how bad the fandom got and then the projection for reylo to be a thing. Purely because of how nasty and racist the shippers were.
I would have said that I'm confident that all of them are literal children, but the fact that nsfw reylo is still one of the top star wars sequel fanfics on ao3 make me think otherwise. (You should go in with filters *on* if you don't have a bottle of bleach on hand) It'll have been cool if it was AU or the plot was well written y'know like the genocidal maniac in charge of a child soldier army actually got punished for it, but almost every single one I've read paints Kylo as a pure sweetheart or all that matters is that he's soft for Rey.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think Bethany should’ve apologised to Meredith for the “albino snake” comment and taken that as a lesson to not use such a problematic slang term.
But is it problematic? Albino snakes are a thing that exist, they are just white snakes, I don't think many people would associate this with albino people, because the huge majority of people has never in their life met an albino human, the association just wouldn't come quickly , and apparently these two people didn't even know each other previously, maybe it would be nice for her to apologise because the other person seemed to be hurt, but, at least in my opinion, it doesn't seem to a problematic saying.
@@bluester7177albinism is a disability that affects all races and causes blindness. It’s a legitimate disability. To use it to describe a white person is ignorant at best and dismissive of a disability and the struggles associated with disability at worst, so yes. If an albino person says it’s not ok then it’s not ok. It’s definitely ableist and should never be used so flippantly
It’s disgusting behaviour. If someone said something to her and she found it offensive as a POC then she’s speak out expect the other person to listen and learn. This is the same thing. She flippantly used a term form a disability that few people understand and refused to take accountability for it when pulled up by an actual albino person. It’s also complete ignorance as albinism affects all races
I think it would have been best if she just immediately cleared up that she wasnt talking about Meredith and apologized for the discomfort she might have caused her. Instead of making Meredith feel irrelevant and indirectly undermining her feelings, but I can also see Bethany's POV.
I will say, you saying a breakdown wouldn't cause someone to 'be productive enough' to d this, is an absolute lie. It sounds like she may have had a manic breakdown. Mental illness is more than just lying down and not having energy. Anyone going 'I had a mental breakdown too so yours isn't real" can get fucked. It sounds like she went through some WILD splitting (I have BPD, I split too but I'm on good meds, have therapy and have never had an urge to go on a racist tirade because of it, weird how that works Cait) and manic stuff. It sounds like she was keeping down some real racist thoughts in her day to day, which came out in her breakdown, which I fully believe she had. Her choices afterwards (the gaslighting, sloppily faking the text convo and claiming she was also a victim) and the parts of her personality it revealed are absolutely fucked up and wrong, but can people stop insisting the depressive way is the only way to be mentally ill and in need of support? Christ, guys. We can call her out without demanding mental illnesses all be expressed identically.
That albino arc is kind of insane. It seems quite reasonable to me to feel like someone is talking about you when you are albino and that info is publicly available. Whether the other person knew is kind of irrelevant. I don't understand why it's so hard to say something like "That's not what I meant to imply and I wasn't aware that you are albino."
1. bethany's tweet was made hours before meredith showed up and inserted herself in that bullshit 2. she flat out said she's referring to white people, not people with albinism and, i quote: nobody coming for you. and she said she didn't know either, so what are you not understanding
@@danielle7988 I mean she should have just said "white snake" in that case. Using a disability as part of an insult is not good. Albinism can impact people of any race it is not a synonym for a white person.
Isn't that exactly what Bethany did though? Like he literally showed all of that happening. I'm bringing to think y'all just want to attack a black woman because ain't no way we were just ignoring all the evidence.
i’m not actually convinced that her explanation is untruthful. setting up a bunch of burners and starting to believe some really crazy shit sounds totally plausible for someone suffering from a manic episode, especially if substances are involved. that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t be held accountable for the harm that she caused, but the backlash of “saying your new meds caused (insert offensive behavior/belief) just increases the stigma against people with real mental health issues” is very misguided. there are a lot of people for whom that sort of disconnection from reality can cause some truly awful behavior and they are still deserving of treatment and empathy, even as they are held accountable for any damage they caused. remember folks: if a manic, psychotic breakdown can make someone believe that they have a microchip implanted in their brain by literal ancient aliens to control their every thought and action, then it sure as hell can make them believe in conspiratorial bullshit tied to real-life bigotry. the difference isn’t in one being possible and the other not. the difference is that one is inherently harmful to other people and therefore must be handled differently.
Meredith is the one who apologized??? And *bethany* forgave her?? Bruh 💀 it’s really not difficult to admit that you’re used to using offensive language and apologize for it, Meredith is yet another person who’s been silenced when they’re the ones who have every right to speak up
"albino snake in the hen house" Wut? I have never heard of that as a southern phrase. Just trying to google for it only pulls up Bethany's statement. Adding the word albino in there feels really out of pocket.
How is no-one talking about the albino joke, just because its a phrase doesn't mean it can't do harm, if it hurt someone then apologize after explaining and move on, we can all be unintentionally harmful to others, Bethany was so unempathetic wtf
THIS! There are SO many old phrases that do not hold up over time, and I cannot think of any other instance where someone from a marginalized community would be like "Hey, this thing you said hurt me and people like me" and IMMEDIATELY get turned on by the general public without the barest hint of reflection from the offender. Like, if someone referred to something small as being a midget, and actual people with dwarfism said "that hurts," the argument that people have been using the term "midget" casually for centuries doesn't hold water. Imagine the gall of saying "no no, it's fine, the group you're part of has *always* been used as shorthand for this thing we dislike."
I think they came to terms with the comment in private and both meant to drop the matter. I completely understand Meredith's initial reaction, but it sounds like Bethany got defensive because she's probably encountered discrimination over her vernacular speech before. Language and dialect based bigotry is very real, unfortunately.
@@kristinesynowka106 the irony is that “albino snake in the hen house” is not southern vernacular, and it’s not a phrase that has been used by anyone apart from Bethany ever. Google that phrase with quotes, and the only time anyone has every used that phrase verbatim is Bethany.
@@Hasblock I think the "albino snake" part by itself was the proposed slang. Admittedly, several quick Google searches on that phrase mostly result in websites trying to sell me actual albino snake morphs. Probably the more important take away is that the two ladies seem to have resolved the matter between the two of them. I'm also guessing that if I was in Meredith's position there's a decent chance that I would feel mortified that social media hadn't lost interest in this yet. :(
One thing I agree with this person on is that using a disability, sexual identity or race in an insult isnt appropriate. I include the last two because those are also things that people use as insults that are generally understood as not okay and inappropriate.
Right but she wasn’t using a disability as an insult. She was using a word that literally means to lack pigmentation or color. It occurs in nature and is a disability to humans. She wasn’t referencing the human condition.
@@Musa87000they literally wrote, that it referred to white people. So, they were talking about skin colour. Racism is racism even if it comes from POC towards white people. Ableism is ableism even though the person with the condition is white.
@@sakurayankishi9708 so they use a term to refer to a select group of people who do something, and that is not racism? Do they call black people who pick on white people "black snakes" then?
@@sakurayankishi9708two wrongs don't make a right bruhbruh. Black people using 'albino' as a shorthand for white people is nearly always with a negative connotation. It's just not a good colloquialism. There are lots of expressions that are better left to the side, this is one of them. Enough said.
The email from GR she got implies that they know she did it which makes sense. They probably have access to the IP information. It's a really bad move to just post that like 😂. Really just told on yourself thinking people wouldn't read the content of the email. Like why would goodreads send an email telling you it's against the rules and not goodreads saying "hey we're sorry you got caught up in this, we're working on resolving the issue"?
@@trashteriyucky they probably can determine that you are using a vpn, i tried to leave a review on royalroad for a book i enjoyed forgetting that i was using a vpn and the site didn't let me post, unfortantely if i did want to post the review i wouuld have to rewrite the review and i didn't feel like doing that.
I feel bad for the person who got targeted for no reason because some people don't know that calling out someone an "albino snake" is a bad thing- they should have just write "white snake" if they wanted to portray a white person and not make a reference for a disability that one of the authors has -
i mean according to her the saying originally goes “albino snake”, she didn’t know about the authors disability so she wouldn’t really have felt the need to change how the saying goes. it was honestly just a confusion i feel like
@@fairyfool2541 I'm calling bullshit on that though because the phrase is "fox in the hen house." Not snake. She was trying to call Cait a snake and subtweet that she's talking about a white person but chose... albino??? Makes no sense.
@@joosoojust because you are ignorant about other people's saying and cultures doesn't mean that the things people say don't make sense. In the south albino snake is pretty common and it literally just means a white snake.
This reminds me of that old Welcome to Tumblr animation from a decade ago where one of the jokes was about "Night Blogging" or blogging while drunk or high. "Post things that you'll immediately regret the next morning. When you're inevitably confronted by angry mobs of your followers, simply tell them that you lost control of your feels and that you have a debilitating gold-rush era disease that prevents you from thinking clearly at night."
This whole thing is insane but why did the lady with albinism have to apologize for catching ableist strays? I get it was a misunderstanding but people actually have albinism... maybe we shouldn't just throw around that word when we're trying to insult people.
My opinion is that they were unnecessarily rude to the albino author. They could have just responded that "Black ppl refer to white ppl as albinos as an insult" but no she had to go off? It seemed clear the albino author misunderstood. Also she has a point, it is rude to make fun of albinism and use it as a mockery of white ppl, considering anyone of any race can have it. Its not that big a deal but that exchange irked me...
The insult wasn't the albino though, the insult is calling rhe person a snake, the albino is just the adjective, white snakes are almost always albino, so the point was " unamed author is white and a snake."
Regarding the snake in the hen house, it doesn't matter that Bethany wasn't referring to Meredith, Meredith was right when she said that using albinism as an insult is akin to using "gay" or the r-word as an insult. It might be a real expression, but that doesn't make saying it ok and she sounds foolish defending herself for it rather than admitting it is a poor turn of phrase that she won't use anymore.
The insult is "snake" not albino. Albino is just refering to the color of the snake. There are albino animals of pretty much every species. It does not refer to the genetic mutation as an insult. It's not that hard. If albino was an insult she would not put it in her bio.
@@milacruz3970 it doesn't matter. If someone said there is a retarded snake in the hen house or a gay snake in the hen house or a cripple snake in the hen house, the insult is snake, and they are all inappropriate to qualify snake in those ways. Just because the expression exists doesn't make it ok to defend.
The other authors getting defensive about their albino comment is what fueled their ableism. Just say you’re sorry and didn’t know it was like that and THEN move on. 👍
She wasn't ableist because she wasn't talking about albino people, she wasnt talking about the other girl at all, she didn't evem know she existed, she used albino snake because it's a white snake, it has no relationship to albinism in humans and albinism itself isn't a disability, the mutations can cause disability but it isn't a given, most albino people are as healthy as the rest of the population, how can you be ableist about something that isn't a disability? Specially when you meant the pigmentation of a real animal.
@@bluester7177 Not necessarily a disability (can lead to it) but a condition that changes the way a person lives their life. Albino snake refers to the same condition. It’s a phrase that shouldn’t be said anymore. We can understand why she was offended, right? Is it hard for them not to just retract that statement?
It turns out it isn't smart to fake a dialogue and send it to ... creative writers. Who woulda thought??
Inconceivable!
@@AmandaLeigh1004 You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
@@selectivelysocial7117I believe you may be mistaken, as she is perfectly justified with her actions
@@EeveeBoi777 Inconceivable!
But really, it was a perfect use of the word. I just couldn't let the opportunity to make a Princess Bride reference slip by me.
Especially when you’re not great at creating realistic dialogue
To clarify: Xiran Jay Zhao isn't a 2024 debut author, their book "Iron Widow" was published in 2021. That being said they were very much at the forefront to expose this author to protect debut authors who may not have known how to go about defending against this, especially given their large platform.
fyi Xiran’s pronouns are they/them :) !
they are such a powerful queen, their debut on youtube was so incredibly it is hard to believe they just got into the platform out of pure spite
Xiran Jay Zhao is awesome! I love their content and Iron Widow is one of the few sci-fi books that I actually like.
@@mpan7376shes a woman
@@spiceupyourafterlife i finally picked up iron widow today after wanting to read it for a while as i love Xiran's commentary videos and videos on ancient chinese history lol. Im excited to crack into it tonight
how the hell was she able to create the fakest, blandest, and most overdramatic fake messages that i've ever read?? no wonder she inflated her book with good reviews
Forreal! You can tell by the way she writes those messages that you're not getting your money's worth outta that book...
I've heard the book is rehashed Reylo fanfic too which sounds fucking terrible in its own right
Like girl, you would think she would know how to fake proper dialogue/messages by now. Also that villain arc for Lily lmaoooo, why did she do that. Why did she make Lily a hacker. For why? 😂
@@trashteriyucky exactly like omg😭😭
Rachel from Reads with Rachel channel got a PR copy of the book before the debacle, and she made a summary and review of the book. And let me tell you, the book is BAD. It combines Christian morals with Greek mythology and veneer of scify and a worldbuilding that doesn't make sense
Knowing that the Cait/Lily conversation was written by a published author gives me hope that being terrible at writing is not longer a barrier to entry.
99% of books published today have awful writing (colleen hoover for example) so you can be even more hopeful
@@edgarallanpoe209 - Oh, that's not even a recent thing, that's just Sturgeon's Law.
But yeah, it does make me realise that I criticise myself out of writing what would apparently be perfectly publishable dogshit-tier prose all the time. Can't decide whether that's a bad thing or not.
@@FTZPLTC if your story is a dark romance with a white woman as the mc youre pretty much set for success already tbh
@@edgarallanpoe209 - Oh. It was going to be about a fantasy version of the Height of the Raj where Indian witches infect the British with occult syphilis. Probably not the same demographic.
That was my one good take from the trump presidency... any idiot can do anything
I find it deeply embarrassing that she's an author but doesn't know enough about writer's voice to change hers to cover her tracks when she's making fake messages.
Reads with Rachel got an ARC of her book and...yeah it's pretty consistent with the quality of her writing. She doesn't understand character, plot, or setting either.
Guess that’s inspiration for future writers. If she can get a deal, imagine the possibilities.
@@shinyumbreon696 Then how the fuck did she get a publishing deal in the first place?
@@drafezard7315 Your guess is as good as mine.
That villain twist was so incredibly funny.
the fake text convo is giving me so much secondhand embarrasment I feel the need to hide in the comment section
it reads as "quirky" and "emotional", the kind of dialogue you find on a netflix original drama
Then the Lily becoming a straight up villain. LMAOOO, I couldn't help but laugh at the pic "Lily" sent, a plot twist for sure. 😂 Also, even though it's a fake convo the way she was talking to "Lily" was horrible.
Yeah...I had to ff over it and the apology.
It's like when there's an embarrassing scene in a movie or sitcom and the urge to leave immediately or change the channel overwhelms you
Me too!!!🥴
People are so worried that Cait facing consequences for her actions will set a precedent for all authors, but it's super easy to avoid a similar situation...just don't do insane, racist stuff like she did.
In THIS economy?
the fact that one of the authors who got reviewbombed got far mroe flak and harassment for voicing heir frustrations than cait did for literally threatening the careers of several authors of color is very telling
Right? Anytime anyone’s like “But BUT PRECEDENT” It’s always shit that like…YEAH. Maybe it should have already been precedent? Why are you against This very specific series of events being punished???
Right? Common sense.
lol yeah it should set a precedent
I’m surprised an author who was all set up to be published can’t make their two pretend discord characters read like two different people, you can tell both sides have the same writing style.
The book itself has a very immature writing style, too. It's like a self-insert fanfic style with a highly informal internal monologue narrator.
Stuff like: "I wasn't sure what was going on, but, well, I guess that's just how these things go."
Not a quote, btw, but how the writing is.
Can confirm. It was also plagued with italicized verbs, I literally couldn’t find a single page that didn’t have italics, which is a really common bad fanfic thing
I always say reading that exchange is like the definition of a shitty first draft.Just trite and boring. And, apparently from the other comments here, not too far off the mark from the final product. 🥴
@@yoyohayli most newly published authors are pretty mediocre, tbh
They could've at least made 'Lily' have punctuation! Its a simple stylistic choice that at least gives the illusion that they are two different people, albeit superficially.
Also, if this was not that long ago, Char GPT exists. If they were that bad at pretending to be someone else, should've at least used it as the basis for 'Lily.'
The fact that "Lilly" points out that most of the reviews were against poc authors... Cait knew what she was doing
true. she even called it "psychopathic" herself. she's a DEEPLY manipulative liar and she clearly knew that what she was doing was wrong and harmful
They are still being racist as none of what Cait did has anything to do with her skin color. Literally the only reason they call her deceptive white person is to project hate.
Literally you could call out that horrible person without bringing up her skin color. The implication they are making is that her heinous actions are tied to her whiteness.
Do you think "Lilly" was a conscious or subconscious pick? Lilly is a classic girl's name of Latin origin, which stems from the lily flower. The *white* flowers represent purity, innocence and rebirth: in religious iconography, they often represent the Virgin Mary.
But at the same time "Lilly" is also strikingly close to "Lie-lie" 🤣🤣
Yeah that’s the smoking gun. Indefensible.
exactlysmh
Ironically, Cait being resentful of other author's advances is largely unwarranted considering that, by all accounts, she got a pretty great deal, two books, pretty sizable advance, really good advertising plan. By all accounts, Cait was being set up for a lifelong career as an author, and yet all of that wasn't enough for her. Though, rumour around the author network is that Cait is a trust fund kid of Old South money so...maybe not so surprising.
Ooo that's juicy! The idea that Cait was seething because the stolen labor and money generated by her ancestors did NOT get her farther than people who's ancestors labor was stolen and were left with nothing-- is both funny and proof that God may exist and is a funny motherfucker.
So old Southern money heiress with a flourishing career feels threatened by, and attacks, POC for having less than half of what she does? It’s like the retelling of a tale as old as time.
This is why her actions were definitely based on her being a bigot. She had no reason to feel insecure and she purposely chose marginalized authors. She's got a hateful heart. I can't imagine she'll ever be able to write using her real name going fwd. Bt who knows, maybe she can write right wing fanfic now.
She was even going to have her book published in a book box known as Illumicrate with fancy trimmings like decorative dust jackets, stenciled edges, and most likely a beautiful character art on both the front and back end papers. There's authors out there that weren't being given that same treatment for sure... though it makes me wonder if they even read the book. From what I heard in review circles, the book was actually pretty bad- as in the writing wasn't very good.
Maybe Cait should have seen what people thought of her book on a site like Wattpad where people would have given her reviews on the quality of her work before she went down the traditionally published route...?
@@TiffWaffles Maybe she had considering other people mentioned that the book sounded like a rehashed raylo fic 👀
Oh thank gosh it wasn't something Xiran Jay Zhao did I had no idea this was even happening so it was a worry seeing them on the thumbnail
Yes! I thought the same thing. I love their history videos, and hope to get around to reading their book soon…I was worried yet another creator I like was gonna turn out to be a s**thead lol Glad she was on the good side!
@@missdenisebee Just so you know, according to their presskit, "Please refer to me as They/Them. Despite my current appearance, I’ve struggled with my gender identity my whole life and much prefer neutral pronouns."
SAME I HAD A HEART ATTACK
same i instantly clicked the vid cus i was worried asl😭
Really loved that xiran bought forward forward more of our culture for others to know. I feared she was also exposed to be a bad actor.
As someone who works in publishing, and is a tradpub author, it’s hard to describe just how completely insane this situation is. Pulling a book is almost completely unprecedented in the industry, especially not this quickly, which means there was a morality clause in her contract. Cait really really messed up. She essentially won the jackpot with her deal and the scale of promotion she was getting and threw it all away because she decided to be petty and review bomb her friends--including her best friend--instead of a little cringey and just make fake accounts to 5 star her book and do nothing else. I also ran in some similar circles as Cait back in the day and this doesn’t surprise me at all, she used to do the same thing to cosplayers and other fics.
What's a morality clause?? If you don't mind explaining, of course.
Of course! A morality clause is a thing a publishing imprint might put in a contract that basically says they have the right to, for example, pull the book if the author behaves in a way that actively harms the house. This very rarely comes into play since most book community drama usually falls under free speech, but in the case of Cait Corrain she was actively review bombing books that were also at Del Rey. Bad reviews harm book sales, so likely what happened is that they invoked the clause, saying that she was sabotaging the imprint. It’s really hard to do something that invokes the clause, but her behavior was so definitive and it was pulled a week after the first tweet was made, so it’s almost definitely what happened
The tidbit about her doing this to cosplayers and fics is super interesting, wow. I'm not familiar with Cait or any of her circles so all this info is new and unfamiliar but I'm surprised no one brought that up (or if they did it wasn't brought up in this video, again I wouldn't know because I'm just hearing of this LOL). Did she get called out for it back then too? If so you'd think she wouldn't keep pulling this type of shit if people are aware she does it LMAOOOOOO
@@mpan7376 - "This very rarely comes into play since most book community drama usually falls under free speech"
@@opo3628 obviously. but I mean it in the sense that an author saying something homophobic or racist online, and their book being pulled because of that (ie. twitter bios with "my opinons are my own" as a disclaimer and it gets pulled) is considered grounds for a lawsuit. Publishers want to avoid that so stuff like that usually isn't broached. An author who says shit like that will have trouble getting deals and stuff after, and their agent might drop them, but the retroactive release cancellation is an extreme rarity because of legal complications, unless the morality clause lists explicit grounds
How on earth did she think LITERAL AUTHORS wouldn’t figure out her texts were fake?? That they’d not pick up on how fanfic-y they feel?? But then again she was dumb enough to pull the whole review bomb stunt in the first place, as if the only book those accounts liked was hers wouldn’t look suspicious.
if i was messaging someone with the wattpad diction of that sock puppet account, there’s no way i’d believe i was speaking to an adult. i’d envision a preteen. so either she’s lashing out at a child or she’s just a horrible writer, because adults don’t talk like that let alone have the time to make 37 fake accounts to “help” an online acquaintance💀
@@caliglid the fanfic aspect makes so much sense
Nah don't insult fanfic. She's not even close to that level of skill.
@@ghostpad Skill? Absolutely, but you cannot deny that some aspects of the fan community are either currently in middle school or never left it...
@@draconicfeline6177 That's fair.
That Discord argument feel like a scene from the Jekyll and Hyde musical.
fr
I imagine “Lilly” ripping her face off like in Mission Impossible and you see it was Cait all along!
The bit in the text conversation where Lilly the sockpuppet was like, "They're going brand you as racist now lol," just showed how resentful and afraid Cait is about being called that, which makes me think Cait has been called out before for racism prior to all this happening. It's the awareness of targeting POC authors specifically, then showing that she has an awareness that doing so is racist, and then making herself out to be the victim that is so unhinged. It's peak white fragility, absolutely disgusting behaviour.
She is prolly one of these people who think minority artists - authors, actors, etc- only get anywhere because of race getting a big push right now. .. When she should realize competent artists are just getting a chance now.
Right? No disorder can excuse that. She was well aware of who she was targeting. It wasn't just a coincidence.
even if shes never been called a racist, she clearly is so offended by the fact that someone could be called that for what she considers not racist behavior that she had to write it into her little IRL fanfic.
@@Zectifinpeak “being racist is normal and correct but being called racist is a hate crime and I will evaporate in agony so never criticize how I treat anyone in the context of whiteness”
@@Lucifersfursona thisssssss is exactly how they behave, word for word!
On the bright side for Cait, at least she no longer has to fret over how her book will perform!
Oooo ouch! 😂
the saddest part is that, according to a lot of the people who got to review her book, it is pretty good, so she immolated her career for nothing, it would've performed great on its own but she had to be an unhinged fucking asshole
self-fulfilling prophecy 😅
Funny you should say that…because I watched a video earlier today of someone who read Cait’s book. Basically…it’s a damn train wreck.
@kristi4113 oooh link??
the fact that cait made "lily" say cait would be called racist, proves that cait knew she what she was doing😑😑
the goofiest part is that she had lily “realize” that the authors she review bombed were mostly poc. she invented this full-on mustache-twirler of a villain to use as a scapegoat and still went “ALL THAT RACISM WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE THO. THAT TOTALLY HAPPENS.”
@@dackattacThe thing that bothers me, as a white person, that was glossed over in the video is that the term "Albino snake" isn't just abilist, it's also racist. There's no particular reason in context to call out the race of the accused, which means it's specifically intended to bring to mind stereotypes.
Cait corrain reposts a lot of anti-Israel, anti-American and pro Palestinian stuff. Interesting isn’t it? It’s good to know what actual racists associate with.
@@grantstratton2239 baptiste and mooring have already resolved the meaning behind that tweet and settled their own differences, so there’s no need to feel bad for mooring! baptiste even said she didn’t intend to portray albinism as evil (not quoted). not to mention the use of “albino” was made to call out an author who was aware of her own place in the plague that is systemic racism and how she as a white author may be perceived as she harms POC authors, especially when she comes from old south trust fund money - hence the race being incredibly relevant. sayings like this are always made with cultural context that isn’t usually accessible to everyone, so i understand not getting it as someone who also doesn’t understand cultural phrases and idioms right away! however, with a bit of research and knowing of the intent, it seems fine to me - especially since again, this issue has already been resolved. hope that makes sense!
@@grantstratton2239"As a white person" that's all I need to hear lmao
The fake dialogue is such a bizarre look into Cait’s inner monologue and manifestation of her guilt. It’s so bizarre I’m dying
As someone who's read a few extended excerpts of Crown of Starlight and listened to a book summary from someone who *has* read the whole thing (bless their strong soul), I can honestly say that I cannot comprehend how in the hell Cait had actually managed to secure the publishing and promotional deals that she did in the first place. After apologizing to her review-bombed victims, Cait should then apologize to the rest of us for her attempt to inflict such a *GODAWFUL* novel upon the literary world.
Cait comes from a rich family from Texas, or at least that's what I have read on Twitter. Their family have horses, or something like that.
@@MaGpeS If it's true, then I'm not surprised. The white rich conservative woman with unhealthy obsession of Reylo gets mad that communities she hates, like non-white and gay people, receive much better recognition for their talented writing skill, unlike her, who has no talent at all and made to the publisher so far only because of her parents money🤣
I have seen a lot of stuff in the genre that seems to have been just never or barely edited (like they are still in that episodic kind of fanfic structure) OR copy-edited at all. There are lots of wonderful books in that genre and lots of former fanfic writers whose books are great.
Well it seems like the book is very good
At helping you out of the 'Ill never be a good writer' spiral. Everytime I watch a review of an Onision book I start writing.
I quit paying attention to Goodreads years ago. I knew about the fake bad reviews back then, and just couldn’t be bothered to trust any reviews anymore.
Mental illness is not an excuse to be abusive. I deal w mental health issues stemming from trauma and I’d never even think about behaving like this on my worst days, this is just who Cait really is.
@@MomeGnomethat might be a reason but not an excuse to treat others poorly. There are many addicted to drugs who could never do this, comparing them to her is honestly offensive.
It should be. I think we should advocate for allowing people with mental illness to use it as an excuse because it fits all the labels of one. It's kinda hypocritical to refuse them the ability to use their mental illness as an excuse when they are completely valid in expressing their feelings, even if it brings harm and suffering unto others.
@@martyr_lightsilver1833obvious bait is obvious
@@martyr_lightsilver1833 it’s not valid to use mental illness as an excuse to be abusive, sorry not sorry
Well, most for most mental illness, I would agree with you that it's not an excuse for bad behavior. But for me and other schizophrenics, if the case is psychosis, being schizophrenic is quite literally the only excuse there is for whatever delusion we are living at the moment. If I think you are a fake person, I might not treat you like a person, I might yell "Get the f*ck away from me" and that is uncalled for, but that information is not available to me at that moment.
I've felt awful for my behavior just before I was diagnosed, suffering my first psychosis, but I have decided to stop beating myself up for it because I couldn't have done anything differently. "I" was not there that day, a scared person trying their best to help but failing.
If the friend text was any indication of her writing abilities I will infact not be reading Kate’s book in foreseeable future🤣
I saw a review by someone who got an ARC, and frankly it doesn’t sound any good at all
Absolutely. A writer wrote this conversation in original draft.
Well, you won’t anyways because the publishing house dropped her book 😂
@@milo-ru3hcI'm willing to bet that these ARC reviews were what made her go on this ratings rampage.
A friend of mine is a 2024 debut author and fully pulled me aside at work to tell me all this gossip as it was blowing up. Truly just buck wild behaviour
As much as I didn't want to bring this up because I was debating its relevance, I've got to say it. Cait's behaviour is not surprising to me in the slightest, especially from the perspective as a fic author myself. There's a specific term used in many fanfiction circles called 'dog-piling' where a fic author feels so threatened by the presence of another writer in their shared fandom, that they will create multiple sock puppet accounts or even force their fandom friends/readers to bully and harass the other author by review bombing or sending abusive messages to their work(s).
The intent of these attacks are made very clear. The perpetrator wants to chase the other author from fandom or even to force them to stop writing entirely. The fact that Cait was so confident that she wasn't going to get caught makes me suspect that she resorted to doing this even as a fanfic author. Though without proof, take what I say with a grain of salt.
If my suspicions are correct: Cait attempted to weaponize a well known bullying tactic in fanfic circles to potentially sabotage and cause harm to other authors whose books were set to be released next year. She even created accounts that were pretending to be the very races of the authors she was going after, including one of a Chinese immigrant woman who went after an Asian author and called into question the authenticity of that author's depiction of her own culture.
The only thing is that she was caught out for this before she was successful. I can imagine the surprise Pikachu face that Cait had when she realised that she was exposed because I bet that she expected this to turn out differently for her.
Cait is a joke. Her book (from what I heard) was a poorly written atrocity to literature, and deep down I expect she knew that and that is why she lashed out at other authors. As far as I am concerned, Cait can take her sorry excuse of a non-apology and shove it.
yeesh, if I'm a new author I'm afraid of this happening, guess I shouldn't...do my book
I'm noticing a lot of newbie writers and artists using old fandom bullying tactics in professional industries and it's not only creating toxic work environments, but it's also just so childish. Keep that amateur baggage in the forums or better yet, just be normal and don't review bomb your competition whether they are fanfic authors or professional writers.
The thing about published books... It's a GOOD thing if your work reminds people of another book (usually). As long as it's unique, the same reader will want to read ALL the books that are like that. If they like one Sci Fi Greek Retelling, then they very likely will like other Sci Fi Greek Retellings. So there's no value to be had in talking down on other authors who are doing retellings. Their fanbase could wind up being your fanbase.
Actually this is informative. There had been story where Cait had actually accused a fellow Reylo writer of plagiarism. Said writer was lucky because she got some big fish friends who supported her. Thinking about it, I am worried if she did the same with other writers too... especially those that are not that lucky...
As a fanfic writer myself, seeing all the talented authors on Twitter... I just, can't understand her audacity and motive to do such things. Seeing all those talented authors on twitter, that are very underrated, I'd want to give them all the and support recognition that they deserve and hell, they are so cool, I'd want to befriend them and not make enemies. It's just so uncalled for...
R.F. Kuang must be bathing in money right now after this controversy. She is not joking about that kind of insufferable author in Yellowface, as its adaptation is already happening in real time.
This controversey is the reason I picked up the book!
its a shame the book kinda sucks 😭😭
@@runa_7022Literally this lol The summary of Kuang’s books always have me interested then I start reading and, personally, go oh god what is this writing style. Babel was the end of the line for me 😭
@@chickenapplepie3141By the way, did you know that colonialism is bad? Again, colonialism is a really bad thing. I need to make sure you understand that deep topic, so reaffirm my ego that you understand my text and my "intricate" writing.
Cait corrain reposts a lot of anti-Israel, anti-American and pro Palestinian stuff. Interesting isn’t it? I always knew anti American and anti Israel people were the real racists.
I didn't hear about that part between Bethany Baptiste and Meredith Mooring. I am glad that they took the time to speak in private once their emotions had cooled off, realised it was all a big misunderstanding, and both offered genuine apologies to each other. You know, unlike Cait Corrain.
It was nice to actually see two people settle their differences, apologize and just go on with their life. We need more people to do that instead of constantly doubling dowm
@@coneil72no. Why would she need to
@@mcheesey123because she used a term for a disability in an insult? How would she feel if people used racist expressions to insult a non POC person? There are words that should be used with care and “albino” is one of them
@@molybdomancer195Its like you watched this video with your eyes closed and ears closed ahe literally said it's a saying in the south which it IS, She was referring to a actual snake that is white not meredith, she even saya she did not know meredith has albinonism, you can't insult someone about a disability they have if you don't know, and if you read the original post where does she mentioned anything about a person with albinonism at all in what context. Y'all clearly don't like to read or listen and it shows.
@@mafille-vh9pn
I understand that Bethany meant "albino snake" in terms of a devious person among friends. But, in terms of the context, Bethany didn't say she was talking about Cait and left it up to readers as to who the "albino snake" was. Which in tern could have lead people to harass Meredith just because they know Meredith is Albino and thought Bethany was talking about her. So Meredith called her out on not using said term.
It was a simple misunderstanding on both sides. Though I swear I've seen posts from POCs getting seriously angry for idioms like "pot calling kettle black" and "dark humor". And I've been called out using the colloquialism "you guys" in comment sections before even though it is a local Northerner thing to do.
The apology at 17:55 infuriates me. As someone who actually suffers from anxiety and depression, having a breakdown is NOT an excuse for bad behavior. Even if you do something bad while having a breakdown, you are still responsible for what you've done and have to own up to it and make legitimate steps towards correcting your mistakes. I have zero respect for people who use their mental illnesses as a means to try to get away with being shitty people
and the fact that the affected authors wanted to handle it privately 😮 she just really didn't want to take accountability and was gonna blame anything she could
THIS! it's absolutely the case that sometimes, we act on impulse, say or do things we know are wrong, and hurt other people as a direct result of mental illness, BUT, as i always say - i may not always be able to control these impulses, but i can always and will always do my best to mitigate the harm and do what's need to make up for the hurt. as a less intense example, my ADHD often causes me to talk over or interrupt someone in a conversation. believe me, try as hard as i might, i can't control it - a thought enters my head, i tune out the other person, and next thing i know, i'm blurting out some new tangent. there's no excuse for it, i wish it didn't happen, but it does, so what i must do is simply acknowledge it - "oh i'm sorry, i didn't mean to cut you off there," - and then remedy the problem - "please, continue with what you were saying." i don't make a big fuss out of it either, i don't make it a pity party with "oh gosh i'm so sorry, you see my brain is just fucked up, i have to deal with t his terrible ADHD that makes my life hell, this always happens to me and it makes my life so so difficult, and i only wish it would go away, but that's just how it goes..." it's not about me!
I figured something was off. As someone who has a family member suffering with depression, anxiety and other things that they have to take all these meds for never in his life has he acted out especially not like this. But thank you for your comment i was looking for this.
Exactly!! The fact that she puts her mental health and addiction issues first in the apology rather than the actual apology, trying to drum sympathy as she states it as an excuse, says A LOT about her character.
She makes us with depression and addiction issues look VERY BAD and its not like we don't hear insults every other day ☠ hope this mental facility she's going to is real tho, girl needs some serious therapy ☠
Attributing all of her behavior to mental health issues adds more stigma to those issues for other people. She should be ashamed of that, too.
Yeah, that's really shitty of her, and I say that as someone who had to pop multiple pills today to get by. Like, I'm sure her mental health struggles are driving this maladjusted behavior because this isn't the behavior of an emotionally healthy and confidently happy person, but that doesn't mean it's her poor mental health that is the cause. She is choosing to use self-aggrandizing coping mechanisms that harm others instead of healthy ones, and that's a flaw in her character, not a matter of her mental health. When I deal with confidence issues, I don't go drag other people down, I practice mindful choosing to find vicarious joy in the success of others. She has other options, she just chooses detrimental ones.
@@emexdizzyit can be the cause, the problem isn't that, mental health shouldn't be stigmatised but it also shouldn't be sugarcoated, the problem isn't that her mental health problems may have caused this to happen is how she acted afterwards by not taking responsability for it and trying to get out of trouble by just blaming her addiction and mental health.
Also, not everyone has access to information about healthier coping mechanism or can cope in healthier ways without help, or can challenge their more problematic thoughts and behaviours, saying tou don't hurt other people because you know how to cope and it's trying hard is nice, but it doesn't say much about other people, society as a whole doesn't value or make mental health treatment easily available.
@bluester7177 mmm dunno if we can fully say this was caused by her mental health. But it might have made her double down on things she already wanted to do. Having a mental breakdown, is not going to make you be racist or target people, you have to already be insecure and racist to do that. But that being said her mental health might have something to do with it. She may have already had those thoughts, and when she was low it influenced her to act in them more than she would if she were sound of mind and sober. But the core issues are still there. She still targeted people of color, and she still clearly looked down on her debuts, or this wouldn't have happened. Having a mental disorder might make bad ideas seem more reasonable than they should be, but they don't *make* you do it. She still has to understand that while yes, her mental health may have played SOME role, she probably still has these issues when she's sound of mind. And she needs to unpack that. I know plenty of people who drink too much, but only some of them are abusive. The alcohol didn't make them abusive, it just showed their true colors.
No. When her behavior issues are caused by her mental health issues, then she is allowed to say that. Mental illness can cause all sorts of ugly behavior. That doesn't mean a person has no responsibility for their actions or that they don't have to face consequences. It just means that the reason they acted a certain way is because of symptoms caused by mental illness. Not everyone has resources or a support network to reach a stable place. Not everyone gets better from medication or therapy.
Would it be dishonest of me to say that my OCD causes me to be late for things because I get trapped doing compulsive behaviors? My friends are allowed to be dissapointed and upset and feel like I should be able to overcome those compulsions, but that doesn't mean that I am lying or trying to avoid responsibility. That is just the truth. I can be honest with friends that I don't know if I will be able to make it and try to do everything I can to make things easier for them, but it won't end up with me coming over. It will end up with me not making plans in the first place, because I literally cannot control my symptoms. I understand it is my responsibility, which is why I'm in therapy and take medication and make people aware before making plans about these issues I have.
Also, mental illness can actually be so severe that you literally cannot be held responsible for your actions, so this isn't some black and white thing. I would argue that having a bad reaction to a medication is an example where someone shouldn't be blamed, considering there was no way they could have known that they would be affected in that way and thus couldn't possibly have prepared to cope with those symptoms in a healthy way.
It seems like you think that if a person's harmful behavior was caused by mental illness or a medication reaction, then that means their bad behavior was totally fine and that they wouldn't have any consequences. That isn't true, though. Whether or not a behavior is okay has nothing to so with intention. For example, it will never be okay to harm a child, even if it was an accident, so acknowledging that it was an accident doesn't suddenly absolve the person of responsibility or punishment. It just absolves them of being seen as a bad person who wanted to do such a thing. When saying that someone's behavior is due to their mental illness, you are making a distinction between their behavior and who they are as a person. It's important to have compassion and consider that they may not have had the resources or support to overcome their symptoms. Even in this example, you are allowed to be upset and hurt by their actions and think they should be held accountable Really, the only thing that isn't okay for you to do, is for you to claim that a person's mental illness or a bad medication reaction isn't what caused their feelings/thoughts/experiences/behavior.
When you do not know anything about a person, especially not what they are going through psychologically, you have no right to make any claims about whether their actions could have been due to mental illness or medication side effects.
So instead of hurting your peers and spreading misinformation all because society doesn't know how to comprehend that different people are affected by mental illness in different ways, you could try to to have a more nuanced view of agency and responsibility when it comes to mental illness, and focus on the wellbeing of your peers who face the same discrimination as you, and will face even more of it if people continue to act like mental illness can't cause someone to struggle with their behavior.
@@orchdork775 What you said is true. Maybe in the moment she engaged in harmful behavior genuinely caused by her mental health issues, but that seems doubtful. She demonstrated a prolonged pattern of behavior that involved both harmful actions and subsequent lies to cover it up (elaborate lies, too). Her apology reads like someone trying to entirely blame their shitty behavior on mental illness and not take any kind of accountability for what she did. I'm not saying that mental illness cannot cause you to engage in harmful behavior, but her explanation seems very disingenuous and not like a real apology.
GoodReads has always been a giant dumpster fire. I lost track of the number of “unhinged author” as well as “unhinged reviewer“ controversies on the website, all of them badly handled by the staff. And that was years ago.
It certainly changed my image that bookworms were these quiet, thoughtful, erudite people.
I don't think its necessary a goodreads issue. Authors were probably always flipping out about reviews they don't like - but some of them probably need to not engage unprofessionally with critics on social media. A bunch have popped off on twitter over the years too. There is not going to be any book that everyone gets on with. Snapping at a critic almost always makes them look bad. If someones book review is not well done - you will see that.
Good reads, terrible people.
I thought book community would be calm and chill too but damn. I mean, even the freaking knitting community has drama.
@@milacruz3970 Yeah the knitting community had a fake death too!
Hey, lots of us bookworms still ARE quiet, thoughtful, erudite people! But to your point, "unhinged" happens a lot, regardless of the industry or people group.
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned that in the Goodreads email sent to Cait, it very clearly says, “Please refrain from engaging in activity of this nature in the future to avoid being banned.”
If her storytelling is as thought out as her planning, then I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t read her book.
Yes, thanks for pointing this out! I came into this video with no idea about the drama and I IMMEDIATELY knew Cait was inflating her ratings because of that line in the email. Goofy!!
Almost certainly Goodreads detected suspicious activity from the same IP address and possibly matched the identical sockpuppet/user activity. I don't think she was using a VPN.
I understand why Meredith acted the way she did. There is a very real history of people with albinism being treated with suspicion and disdain just for having albinism. However this is also definitely a “keep it in the dms” moment
There's places where they eat them, they eat their flesh, because they think it's medicinal and "albinos aren't real people anyways, they're ghosts". The other author should just have said "Sorry, I didn't know, I appologize." I dunno why this was all pinned on Meredith.
Now, her name is tied to a racist incident she literally had no connection to.
True, if I knew Meredith or had albinism then I probably would have thought they were talking about that person or myself in particular.
She definitely should've dmed the person who said it instead of doing what she did, like you said.
She had no involvement with the situation tho and continued to double down instead of apologizing for assuming....in no way shape or form did anyone think that post was Abt her except for her
@@CraftyButtons Aside from being in the same groups. Using your rare skin type as a descriptor to insinuate something bad... no other way to take it.
About the whole albino drama, it's reasonable to ask people to abstain from using that as a slang term. Black people can be albino too btw and in Africa it's a huge problem that albinos are often murdered.
It's absolutely fair to re-examine our current use of traditional terms & whom they impact negatively. I think the 'albino snake' phrase needs to go.
@@laieli If it ever was there. People are saying that Bethany invented that phrase and wasn't never used before(at least on the internet)
@@foisopracurtir6389I never heard of the term before, but I don’t live in the South.
I’ve heard of “Fox in the henhouse” and “snake in the grass.”
Stop painting Africa as a country when it's a continent. Where on the continent are they being mrdered? It isnt some common occurrence in every African country but yeah, a "huge" problem. Gtfoh 🙄
@reikun86 I live in the south, and I don't think I remember hearing anyone using that phrase, nor calling it the albino snake. But it's slang, so it just might be a unique thing in her area?
Not only they write like teenagers, but they also act like it too. 🙄🙄🙄
i can't blame meredith for thinking the term 'albino snake' was about her, when they're in the same discord group and she is, i presume, the only albinistic one in the discord. if she hadnt heard of the term before, of course she'd take it literally.
Even Austin is against her which is weird. The term is albino snake. Which means a snake that is an albino. How all these women yelled at her for assuming it was about her, when she is the only one with Albanism, is bizarre. If you call someone a “crippled Karen” And a crippled person thinks you’re talking about them, it’s just as bizarre to say “NO, CRIPPLED KAREN JUST MEANS A LAZY KAREN“
@@django9898because the term albino snake, as in a literal white snake, isn't used towards people with albinoism. It literally just means white snake, also the problem here isn't Meredith thinking it was about her and even getting upset at that thought, it's about the doubling down after it was confirmed that it wasn't about her and then the double down when Bethany explained the term. Human beings aren't the only things that can get albinoism and the crippled Karen thing makes no sense. It's just plain offensive and it's clear who the offense is towards. This was a clear misunderstanding that could have been solved if Meredith had not wanted to paint herself as a victim to try and distance herself from being friends with Cait.
The albino snake remark may be a common idiom in some communities, idk, but it should be retired because albinism is a real illness. It doesn't matter if the remark wasn't intentionally directed at an albino person.
Should we retire using it for animals too? Because that's how is used here, whites snakes are whitw either because of albinism or leucism, is more of a racist comment calling a white person an snake than a comment on albinism.
Considering it can effect black people as well as white people, definitely.
Agreed. Impact is more important than intent!
Nah, she was just trying to put herself at the spotlight, she doesn't care about the cause, Meredith just wanted some attention
@@pauloabrantes383 Meredith isn't the only person in the world with albinism and other people can see it. I do think the way she spoke about mental health was kind and lovely even while calling out Cait and the right way to approach this (again because this is public twitter and comments about mental health apply to more than just Cait).
oh this is so rich 😂😂😂 love that Xiran tolerates zero bullshit and she can spot it a mile away. WOW!
23:37 is kinda crazy bc I'm black and southern AND have never heard that saying, nor could I find any reference online that is a separate conversation from Bethany's mention of it. not saying it's not said, but I'm very skeptical. I also met several albino black people in college so it really doesn't check out in logic.
I don't think Bethany meant any harm by it (nor did she intend to specifically call our Meredith), but I also don't think it's an appropriate thing to say because anyone can be albino (and several other reasons). I don't think Meredith should feel any fault for 'misunderstanding Black southern vernacular' because offensive black vernacular shouldn't be protected just because it's a part of our culture.
I fully agree. I think Meredith may have jumped into a conversation that wasn't about her. But, man that is not a cool phrase to use and I feel like too many people are defending it.
@@MC-yt1uv Is it not about her though? If I am hearing a conversation in my extended circle and a phrase with that much slur energy towards my demographic just rolls out, I think it would very suddenly become partly about me. Especially when the key word is not something used in English except when talking about said demographic.
@@QuartzChrysalis Agred. Especially as some people with albinism consider "albino" a deeply hurtful slur.
I'm a black southern too and it's said a lot and Meredith had nothing to do with the drama so why would she feel called out when she wasn't suspected in the first place....she continued to argue with her after and called her abilest after she explained sge wasn't talking Abt her....
@@QuartzChrysalisfrom my understanding, she wasn't in that circle where the accusations were coming from. They had a discord group and she had joined 3 hours after the initial tweet was made. I don't know a lot about the relationships between them all, but it'd be hard to point the finger at someone for sabotoging the group when they're not in the group, methinks.
The pfp Cait chose for her supervillain Lilly is genuinely one of the funniest things she’s ever done
I am so sick of people using mental health issues as a crutch or excuse as to why they do shitty things. She did not take full accountability because the entire first paragraph is her excusing her behavior through a laundry list of personal problems. Yes, mental health issues can affect how you respond to people but it's not an excuse! I have severe mental health issues and when I mess up I actually acknowledge it and work on trying to do better because I don't want to be a bad person!
I have no issue believing that this cait person is mentally unwell, someone who is of a sane disposition doesn't do what she did, but just because she clearly has poor mental health doesn't mean she should get a free pass or that she gets to be forgiven for what she did, mental illness might be an explanation for people's actions but it is never going to be a valid justification or excuse for them
As a prescribed I have seen countless people ruin their lives following manic episodes caused by antidepressant medication.
Respectfully, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
I could kinda see this being a manic episode which can be caused by meds as far as I’m aware. I don’t think calling it a psychotic break as she did was accurate, if it was in fact a manic episode, if anything happened at all. Like this seems like some shit that could happen during a manic episode. From experiencing those of friends of mine. Nothing excuses the racism though.
@@BryanJohnson4891well these accounts were over a period of a few different months and she could have removed them afterwards or not blamed a fake person so no they do know what they are talking about she had many ways to avoid this exact outcome and be responsible for the harm she did to others. her illness doesnt mean she should be allowed to do those things.
it was also pointed out in the replies on her apology that she claimed to start her meds in november yet there were false reviews from april so... did the medicine time travel.. weird lmao.
As someone with both professional and personal xp in this- respectfully, I think the Cait person should seriously invest in some therapy. I hate speculating on ppl disorders, but I actually felt bad for her for sabotaging herself so hard for no reason.
Two years ago I started a new medication that made me manic-depressive and I spent a ton of money, as well as feeling s*icidal ideation. Medicine CAN absolutely make you have a mental breakdown. It gave me an impulse disorder, basically, and I still struggle with it. I believe someone could act out on an impulse they normally wouldn't because of medication. But I don't really buy it in this case, tbh. Sounds like a play for sympathy after getting in trouble for something she didn't think she'd be caught for.
It’s a crazy impulse to create fake accounts and bomb specific books.
Yeah it rubs me the wrong way that people are like "medication/psychosis can't do that" when the real issue is a larger pattern of manipulative behavior and not taking accountability
Personally as someone who has albinism, I can totally understand the reaction to the the saying, I would be hurt too. Albinism is a common trope used by big media for villains or weird and singled out characters and as such sayings like "albino snake in a hen house" further solidify these stereotypes. Why, if you know that the traitor is white, can't you use just "white snake" instead of using a disability, who struggles against villain tropes and stereotypes. I mean to this day and age there are countries in which Albinos are killed or severely maimed and tortured for spiritual reasons. But I'm glad, that both could talk and put their differences aside.
I keep seeing you albino folk replying saying the media often portrays villains as albino and I'm wondering if you could list a few for me, because I don't think I've ever seen any. If anything, everyone seems to think albinism is really cool because you are pale and ethereal etcetc.
@@KryaDiere To preface these examples, albinism in general isn't portrayed really often, but in the cases it's portrayed it's in the form of a villain and/or outcast.
I think the most famous example are the twins from Matrix Reloaded, but there are many others like:
-The original Tombstone from the Spiderman comics is an African-American with Albinism
-Batmans enemy Ra's Al Ghul turns albino (I'm not completely familiar with the storyline, and there a some more minor Batman Villains who are albino or albino coded)
-Moby Dick is also Albino, in many variations, despite the original source only having a whale with a white head, not a full fledged albino
-Mr. Sinister from X-Men was portrayed albino from time to time
-Mr. Joshua from Lethal Weapon
-The Albino from the Princess Bride
-Albino from End of Days
-The main Villain, Prince Nuada from Hellboy 2
-Members of "The Family" from The Omega Man
-El Blanco from the third Tremors
-The White Witch from Disney's The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is heavily coded to be albino
-Lord Shen from Kung Fu Panda
-Roy Batty from Blade Runner
-Silas from the Da Vinci Code Book is described as albinistic, but the Movie casted Paul Brittany
-Griffin from The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells
-Lavinia Whatley from H.P. Lovecraft's "The Dunwich Horror"
-Pollution from Good Omens
-The Albino from the Star Trek Deep Space Nine Episode Blood Oath
-Samuel Aboah from X-Files
-Anadil from the Book Series The school for Good and Evil (In Netflix Adaptation she was recasted)
I tried to include villains and/or characters designed to be creepy and bad from all forms of media: Comics, Movies, Series and Books. Furthermore I included older and recent things.
Not all of the listed characters are outright said to be albinistic, but they are all heavily implied to be: (really pale/translucent skin, red or purple eyes, aversion to sunlight, White or light blond hair)
What also is quite infuriating about the presentation of albinism, is that with most of these characters the depiction of their albinism is completely unrealistic (good or extraordinary eyesight, the ability to walk and endure places with strong sunlight/UV ) Most Albinos have extreme poor eyesight and we have zero protection against sunburns, so being in a place like a Desert or even Australia is quite hazardous, especially without proper protection at the sun.
@@Kathys-corner I think I know where Meredith was coming from, since white snakes in nature are extremely rare and usually a result of albinism, so in her head it made sense to refer to (whoever she was discussing) as an albino snake rather than just "a white" snake, however I also concede that albino characters are almost exclusively included in stories to up the creep-factor.
In the case of Silas from The Da Vinci Code, I thought he was actually a very sympathetic albino character but there was much outrage over the character being albino and one of the villains, so Bettany was cast in the role and they chose not to give him red eyes, like the book character had. I thought it was a bit of an overreaction in that case, because the actual character is only a villain because the story's real villain (or one of them anyway) took advantage of Silas being an orphan and an outcast and turned him into a living weapon that also suffered greatly due to the violence his 'master' demanded of him. I thought Silas was a pretty nuanced character, tbh. His albinism wasn't why he was a villain, he was manipulated into being a villain because society treated him like shit for having albinism and it made him vulnerable.
@@Listening_Books12345 Silas is actually one of the better characters on the list, but that doesn't influenced the bigger picture, that Albinism is often used to give villains a creep factor. I quite like Sakrileg/ The Da Vinci Code and I enjoyed how Paul Bettany portrayed Silas, but for me personally there will always be an icky feeling, seeing the evil albino trope in use, regardless how good or bad the character is.
Albinism runs in my family and I completely agree...like it just doesn't need to be part of the saying? Like would you replace that word with ANY other disability?? No. Because it would be weird. It doesn't matter if it's about that creater at all, it still shouldn't be being said.
And white snakes aren't even albino, they're leucistic. Snakes with albinism are bright ass yellow
Did she really think that we’d think that fake convo would trick people? If good reads thought it was the author it’s because it was all from the same ip 🤦🏼♀️ girl thought she was a cyber sleuth mastermind but was just another creepshow
I’m not familiar with the albino snake descriptor even if I was it completely makes sense that an individual with albinism would assume albino snake was in reference to them. I don’t think the term should get a pass, it’s easy to see that it is offensive. Meredith might have come to an understanding with Bethany but Meredith does not speak for all people with albinism. Also, Cait can go eff herself because wtf that was completely messed up.
People can just say “white snake” if they want to refer to a white snake. Perfectly good descriptor for a white snake.
Yeah, I agree, I get that tensions were running high for everyone and Bethany was dealing with someone trying to undermine her life's work. But, "albino snake" is not a cool phrase to use and should definitely get retired. Especially given that I can't think of a single positive portrayal of someone with albinism in media, they are always used as a joke or to signify that someone is abnormal or dangerous.
And at the end, Bethany said she forgave Meredith because she “was satisfied with her answers.” Even if you don’t intend to insult someone, maybe acknowledging how “albino snake” could be taken wrongly and apologizing for that instead of doubling down and saying “that’s just what we say where I come from”. Meredith is also part of a marginalized community and we need to listen to folks when they say our language could be taken the wrong way (but also yes adding albinism in a historical context not being viewed in a positive light at all).
But why would she be referring to Meredith, if she didn't do anything?
@@xletragedyx They were part of the same groups on some platforms. And Meredith has a fairly rare and distinct condition. And while it is likely that Bethany had no idea that Meredith was albino it is also public available information so it is information that Bethany could have easily found.
I think it is entirely reasonable if you are the only person in a social circle with albinism that you might be the "albino snake" that was being referenced.
Bethany's tweet was fairly cryptic. It wasn't clear what the "albino snake" had done just that there was one. So I think it is reasonable for Meredith to assume she was being attacked even if she didn't know what for.
To be clear I think Meredith probably jumped the gun and overreacted. But, I think it isn't right to use albino as part of a derogatory phrase.
I knew about this controversy and I know Xiran Jay Zhao, but the thumbnail design *is* a little misleading with the pictures of two women and the phrase "she got caught..."
Because Xiran is on the left, after you read the phrase you automatically jump to her pic next. For a split second I got scared that Xiran was the one who got caught doing something wrong, not Cait 😅
Good vid, just wanted to share a minor concern over the thumbnail since I got spooked lol.
See, though, I think most people invested in BookTube know that Xiran uses they/them and thus would have to think Austin is mispronouning Xiran to assume "she" is in reference to Xiran. Alternatively, some people don't know Xiran goes by "they" which isn't an Austin problem, it's more of a "oh, the more you know" moment.
@@emexdizzyno one cares
@@keeperofthe7keys1987 I care. What are you gonna do about it?
@@keeperofthe7keys1987I care
@@keeperofthe7keys1987 I care
tbf to Meredith Mooring I also would've thought that tweet was about me if I were her, I've never heard the term "albino snake" being used to refer to someone before watching this
U wouldn't tho because she he ad nothing to do with the drama and wasn't even involved in it and Bethany stated that so why continue to argue and can someone abilest when u two don't know each other, they were both in the wrong
@CraftyButtons you don't have to know a disabled person to be ableist what do you even mean????
when I was 12 i entered an art contest that would be decided by online voting so I went to Runescape and started gifting people stuff and sending them to the site to vote, but I was sure I was doing something illegal so I told them to just "vote for whichever drawing you like best :)" so when the cops came they wouldn't send me away for too long
cute
did you win?
ethical bribing
I have psychosis and psychotic breaks- and it is very easy and well on that someone can do exactly what she did. It's like reality breaks, and you have one or two thoughts strung together and you have to act on them in some way and not to mention the delusion and hallucinations that come with a psychotic break or an episode of psychosis. Here's why she *actually* doesn't have it: Most people who go into psychosis that I know of or are dealing with psychosis with substance issues know and realize what they did and just double down and say they did it or realize after the fact how wrong it was and do everything to fix it. An example from me personally- in a drunken stupor I entered psychosis and believed one of my best friends was a succubus on the earth the tempt my boyfriend specifically because I was the closest to an angelic being she knew. So, I cut up or destroyed everything in my room that might seem "devilish" and messaged and called her telling her all these horrible things. Thankfully, this was the first time it happened and about six hours after when I awoke from my psychotic breakdown I realized I had really fucked up and apologized dramatically. However, Cait does not show psychosis because she clearly had premeditation and believed and knew while she was doing it what she was doing was wrong. In my moments of breaks from reality the moral scale and compass of right from wrong are totally different because your perception and understanding of the world has become twisted. I believed in every way what I did was right with my friend, that I was saving the world and doing a justice by fighting a demon. Cait was just insecure and knew it was wrong to do what she did when she did it, and further then kept ALL OF THE ACCOUNTS UP even after coming back to reality. And covering it up with sloppy manipulation is not something people with real psychosis typically do. This woman is a racist narcissist who is giving people with real issues a bad rap because of her violent misrepresentation of what it is. I am disgusted with her.
the answer as to why she chose that specific author's list is all hidden in the phrase "they'll call you a racist too" the fact she wrote that preemptively feels REALLY telling about the spite she feels towards successful POC authors. this sentiment is not unique and it reflects horribly on literature as a whole.
I worry about how this and other dramas from former fan fiction and online authors will affect publishers future willingness to sign similar authors in the future.
I really don’t think it’ll affect it much, as Fifty Shades got so popular at first because it was fanfiction and I think that’ll push away the concerns with a drama like this, honestly.
@@AleksandarBell well said and outstanding last name
Regardless of where you are from using Albino as a derogatory term, is wrong. Think before you post Bethany!! She should have apologized as well for her poor choice of words. There are many vernacular phrases that are not used today because they a racist, homophobic, and ablest. As a writer she should choose her words wisely and think of ALL People.
The fact she left the group chat because she felt "villainized" afterwards too bc she got called out for it, like please🙄
@@mcdonalds-sprite I don't think using albino was the greatest but I do also think that its possible she is getting piled on unkindly. People can absolutely have a dialogue about disability but no one should be harassing her. Nobody should be calling her racist or threatening her (some of this was on twitter I don't doubt there was some unhinged behaviour).
@@JennyCThree Oh for sure, she doesn't deserve to be harassed or threatened (a lot of unhinged people on twitter so I wouldn't be surprised). I just felt like she was pulling the victim card because she received backlash. I do understand your point about the dogpiling though and I can see how she might've felt ganged up on in the group chat. I hope she's doing okay and staying safe from twitter weirdos.
@@JennyCThree People shouldn't harass her but she also should have apologized. And then there is the added irony of people also harassing Meredith Mooring saying that she was racist. Pretty much everyone acted badly in this situation. But, I am disappointed in the amount of people defending the use of "albino snake".
the whole phrase she used is racist and she seems to think she is justified because it's just part of her ethnic vernacular like that suddenly makes it okay.
I have never heard of this author or her debut book in my life, but if that fake convo is an indicator of her writing skill...then it's great that I didn't plan to read it lol
I feel like the Bethany v. Meredith thing could have been avoided if Bethany just said “Sorry, I didn’t mean to insult you, I was talking about someone else” and Meredith replied “no problem, sorry for overreacting.” and both of them accepted responsibility for their own actions, you know, like reasonable adults, instead of bickering like children.
But Bethany literally said it wasn't about Meridith, the one that doubled down was Meridith, from what I gathered, these people didn't even know or followed each other and Meredith wasn't even in the group before this, she entered to accuse Bethany of being ableist.
@@bluester7177The way you say things is often just as important as the things you say. I’m not saying Bethany was in the wrong. She is entirely within her rights to feel indignant and upset at being accused like that. However, I feel that her initial response only served to escalate the situation. While it did explain her point of view, it also dismissed Meredith’s, and I can see why Meredith would double down after that. That is not to say that either of them was more at fault than the other. Meredith shouldn’t have addressed this publicly. When you’re in front of others, there’s a lot more pressure to push back and defend yourself. The social pressure of being “called out” in front of a group of people you admire combined with the inflammatory nature of the remarks pressured Bethany to snap back and the rest was history. So although I may have expressed myself poorly in the comment above, all I meant to say was that if either of them had taken a more stable approach to the matter, it wouldn’t have gotten quite so big.
@@phraseology6858 Bethany was ultimately more in the right than Meredith, at least at first, because Meredith should have reached out in private and not assumed the post was about her. But it's not a good look that Bethany flounced out of the chat claiming "I don't feel validated here" after she completely invalidated Meredith's perspective.
I blame Twitter clapback culture. I get that this is a semi-private group, but it's one for newly professional authors. Act professional. Reach out to resolve disputes in private. Give other people the benefit of the doubt, even if you don't feel they've given it to you. Don't invalidate their criticism and perspective. Be the bigger person. Everyone was so immediately defensive that they couldn't just TALK TO EACH OTHER.
I feel like it's relevant to add that I checked out all the original links posted under the video and in Bethany's twitter she posted not only that Meredith and Cait are friends, but had some more conclusive evidence that this wasn't even about Meredith's perceived offense at mocking her disability, but was instead about obfuscating the truth of Bethany calling out Cait's review bombing. So really, it was never about Meredith's condition, and she doubled down only to distract from Cait, much like how in the video that whole issue is just a side story to the main content.
@@bluester7177 she was being ableist. she could do some self reflection and realize that saying "albino snake" is ableist. She could use the term "white snake" instead and it would have the same meaning without the ableist joke.
the miscommunication and misunderstanding about the albino snake thing is so...
I made a separate comment bout it, but as a person with albinism, we are often already portrayed in media as the "bad guys"-probably because some ppl with albinism have eyes that appear red.
But also, there are ppl of color with albinism. So to use "albino snake" to signify both whiteness and deceptiveness is pretty awful.
I'm ethnically white, but from the POC with albinism that I've met, it can be even more alienating when you're a POC than when you're white. You stick out like a sore thumb from your own family members.
Albinism is a disability. It isn't just a term that means "is white". It really can negatively impact the quality of someone's life, and it just shouldn't be used like that. It's like how we don't call things we find stupid or bad "gay" anymore-because that would be insinuating that being gay is bad.
@@FIRING_BLIND First off, people are still using gay as to something meaning bad. Secondly, "albino snake" is referring to snakes, and snakes are commonly used as an insult and everyone understands why, it's like pig, dog, monkey, etc. It has NOTHING to do with your condition and there is no need for us to change the language just because something has a similar name.
@@Soapy-chanthe issue isn’t that they are referring to a snake- it’s that the condition of albinism isn’t limited to snakes. The symbol of albino snakes is used to represent evil, like this tweet, but albinism is also used to represent evil in humans and show they are the villain. If the symbolism wasn’t the same with albino humans and animals it wouldn’t matter, but associating albinism with evil is not limited to animals. Her jump to assuming the comment was about her is stupid but the original tweet was weird
@@Soapy-chan But you do recognise that people using gay as an insult is shit, right? Using ANY disability as an insult is just as horrible as that. It has everything to do with people with Albinism and you not wanting to change language that is actually hurting people because it's inconvenient for you is ignorant and ableist.
@@Soapy-chan and the "albino snake" was refering to a light skinned person. The snake was a euphemism for a person, so saying an albino "snake" in this context means just as much a deceptive albino person as it means a deceptive white person. If an albino person in that group reads that, they will 100% apply that to themselves, because they *are* an *albino person* and they are being accused of being deceptive.
Even if the intention was for "albino" as being read as "white" you can't be mad if an *actually* albino person will associate the term "albino" with themselves.
no but i really do think that bethany should have apologized. when you say "albino snake" an albino person might feel called out. other than that, bethany should have explained it is cait in the same tweet.
"i would have called u out explicitly", she says while this whole situation was caused by her not explicitly calling someone out. What a joke lmaooo beth go off ig tho 😂
Yeah, even if "albino snake" is not intended to referec people with albinism, it still literally uses the adjective "albino". What the fuck are albino people to extrapolate from that, that albino suddendly doesn't apply to them? It's using their disability as an insult. If you want to reference a white person, just say pale??? or *white*??
Isn't albino snake just a white snake? I'm not a native english speaker and I got her meaning, I think the problem here is just that people are so used to being attacked on the internet thst rhey feel everything is an attack, even when there is 0 indication that they are the target, these two people didn't even know each other, the callout is literally their first interaction.
I can understand Meredith being upset though. Especially when the term is being refrenced to some ambiguous person who's been doing bad things in a niche community you're a part of. If someone grew up experiencing ableism, intentional or not, they're probably sensitive to that stuff. @@bluester7177
@@bluester7177I think she could’ve very well just said white snake. I feel like she uses the word albino to be punchy, didn’t realize Meredith had albinism but still doubled down
Dont like how bethany (and others) see nothing wrong with her comment. Let alone the ableism of it, if people are familiar with that group of people, and know that someone with albinism is in that group, how are they supposed to take "albino snake" as not meaning the person with albinism? Sure, she didnt know and didnt think it would connect to meredith, but afterwards she shouldve apologized for how that couldve easily lead to people harassing the person most obviously implicated by that statement??
Bethany was so unempathetic and arrogant. Both her Meredith messed up but at least Meredith was mature enough to own up to her misunderstanding [which is justified imo considering the language Bethany used] and apologised. Bethany needs to get off her high horse, stop playing the victim and apologize too. "I was satisfied with her answers" literally made me eyeroll. Especially coming from a woc, she should know better how words being used in a derogatory way can hurt people.
Agreed. Idk why she was so confrontational when it was just a simple misunderstanding that could have been easily resolved
Exactly, if i was het i would just apologize, explain what I meant, and say i would refrain from using the reference in the future. Its not that harddd
for real she rubbed me all the wrong ways. also she seems to think that her struggles trump anyone else's.
Did u not watch it Meredith dint apologize until later she should have stopped when Bethany told her it wasn't Abt her the first time...but no she continued to double down
Considering Meredith only made a stink to distract from Cait's behavior, Bethany didn't have a damn thing to apologize for.
Nice to get further proof of how badass Xiran is, for not letting something like this slide.
legit they're awesome
I think it’s fair to say the phrase “albino snake” perpetuates stigma even if it’s not being used about an actual albino person.
I know I feel hurt when I hear someone using the R-slur even if the target of their ire isn’t actually neurodivergent.
I don't like it either even if it refers to a white person's negative behaviors. Feels flavored with racism . I am not saying people who say it are racist but just saying I think that is a component of it.
100%!
@@ultraboombeanimpossible to be racist against white people
the r slur has a history of violence.
the term "albino snake" does not.
I kinda feel like the negative connotation is still on ”snake”, not “albino”, but I can see your point for sure. Is “albino” in and of itself a kind of slur towards those with albanism? That would make it different. Kinda like how the non-pc version of “jerryrig” is racist because of the slur.
You got me thinking. I am a reformed bigot trying to learn how to be PC.
I cannot be the only one who thinks Meredith had absolutely nothing to apologize for wtf
I agree. There should've at least been a mutual apology there. But, yeah. As long as they are both satisfied with how it was left, I guess. While, I don't feel Meredith was entirely out of line as similar discussions have been had for other genetic conditions, etc. The public passive aggressiveness here shouldve been avoided from both of them and they shouldve just talked privately. Oh well. Such is the internet.
Yeah, it's kinda fucked that albino is part of an insult. Same energy as calling someone jewish for not sharing money. Kinda reveals a prejudice.
Also that defense doesn't stand up. Does that mean people can say anything if its part of local vernacular? If it's normal in a town to use a given demographic as an insult...
@@QuartzChrysalis VERY valid point. It's one thing if you "don't know" which some times happens (I think back to an episode of Writing Excuses where one of the hosts used a saying that has its roots in being prejudiced against "gypsies" which in and of itself is a derogatory term to some) and even though they meant absolutely no harm and didn't know any better because it's a local vernacular----they were still called out for it and in good taste chose to issue an apology.
She did tho she assumed something was Abt her was told it wasn't and continued to double down....
why on Earth would she not assume that was about her. She is albino@@CraftyButtons
Genuinely shocked by the amount of people not recognising that using any disability to insult someone or insinuate some kind of evilness is ableist and hurtful
legit. so many people on twitter excuse their ableism but will split hairs to call anyone else the worst names in the books. ableism is never taken as seriously.
the insult wasn't calling them an albino, it was calling them a snake. but go off.
@@lesvianaura why add the word “albino” then when it’s already an insult? Why not just say “snake in the hen house” or better yet, “white snake in the hen house” to specifically refer to a white snake? You would think authors would care more about their diction? Bethany is acting like a black snake snake in the chicken house with that comment
@@lesvianaura you know very well that doesn't matter, but go off, you black sheep
@@Hasblock the albino author joined the chat hours after the snake comment so it wasn't directed at her though
I don’t think Meredith was reaching, she is albino, and she quite literally said albino snake. I get what they meant but it is NOT a reach
Yeah, they got away with unintended ableism even if it was sincere and not meant as offense. Doesn't mean it can't be taken offensively and using albinism when describing white is really stupid. Just say white or literally any other description that doesn't involve conditions. The defense of historical use makes it even worse as if there aren't other problematic historical words that have been abandoned for something else.
@@jonessii Yessss TRUE they literally got away with it because they don’t like cait.
Literally just say white snake
Or even something else
Just cause it’s apparently a saying doesn’t mean it isn’t offensive anyways lol
English isn't my first language but saying albino snake instead of just white snake is a little weird. People of colour can also be albino, it doesnt just implicate white ppl.
I get that its a way of speaking but it doesnt justify it though.
Idk maybe thats just me
i find the term rather racist instead of ableist
English isn't my first language either and I got it the first time I read it but I live in one of the countries with most snakes in the world, so it isn't weird to me, I've seen an albino snake close and I know there are not many species that can produce white snakes, most of the time when they are white is when they have albinism or leucism, like the huge majortiy of the time.
Then just say white snake?@@bluester7177
@@Soapy-chan It's both
@@isabelrodriguezsjolund9701 it isn't
It's semantics, but I feel like she probably mixed up mania with psychotic breakdown. I've seen people do some WILD things during a manic episode, they're not at all in their right mind and will do some completely out-of-character things.
Not saying she ACTUALLY had a breakdown or episode, but I see people honing in on and nitpicking the words "psychotic breakdown" specifically.
i second this as someone who had a very bad manic episode and did things I wouldnt even dream of doing otherwise
Mania and psychosis go hand in hand. At least for me, and every other bipolar 1 person I know. That said, this aint it.
@@kellylyons1038 how so, because I'm bipolar and I disagree with you.
@@Soapy-chanyou’re thinking of hypomania, which doesn’t have psychosis symptoms. Manic episodes are bigger and includes psychosis as a symptom.
@@eddiemakesart3372 what do you mean by psychosis?
No one uses the phrase “albino snake in the hen house”. And even if they did, just because it was a phrase doesn’t suddenly make it fine to say
I’m sure she wouldn’t like the non pc version of “jerryrigging”. It’s a used phrase where I’m from, but I doubt she’d like if I used that, even though it’s a part of my cultural vernacular.
Actually plenty of people do in the South. It's so funny to me that y'all will try to attack perceived ignorance by being informant yourself, case in point the racist who commented down below. Lol albino snakes exist and the term has NEVER been used to describe an actual person with albinoism. It's completely fine to say and it's been fine to say.
Cait is not the only person in this story acting immature af. She just keeps making everything about her from start to finish.
Honestly, with the albinism thing, they should have just said oops, thats not what I meant I'm sorry if thats how it came across I know your experience with albinism must be hard. And Meredith would have then said oops I'm sorry I took this nuclear so quickly
Mania makes a lot more sense as an explanation, so "psychotic break" is a weird take.
Seriously though, that whole albinism argument was irritating. Meredith jumped to conclusions but Bethany was kind of an asshole too.
@@joosoo exactly! like i get that they didnt mean anything by what was apparently a popular idiom where she lived, but why did she instantly get mad and surprised when someone with albinoism sees 'albino snake' and thinks its about them?? like is it that hard of a connection to make? Meredith shouldn't have kept reading into it as if it was intentional ignorance or ableism but why was Bethany so pressed?? was it that hard to say 'oh im sorry, i genuinely didnt mean it that way as its a saying where im from referring to a specific animal. i sincerely apologise, would it be possible to delete the tweet so we can talk about it in private?' or smthn like that and boom! no argument. Why was she escalating things so hardddd.
Both of them messed up but meredith comes across as way more justified by the end of that convo due to how unnecessarily defensive beth was, it was infuriating how everything went down. I do wish that meredith didnt immediately tweet about it and make it public, because that could genuinely have hurt beth's career and she jumped the gun too quickly. but also it was a very tiny jump if that makes sense?
It’s really funny to me how cait thought that going after this many writers not to mention one of which became famous purely because she had enough spite towards the live action mulan to create her entire online presence would be someone you can easily mess with get away.
it’s giving creepshowart
For anybody who might be curious about Cait's book, Reads with Rachel, happened to get an ARC, and has a review she dropped yesterday for it.
Thank you omg, I was so curious about her book
@@marie-vr3cj No problem! 🙂
The entire albino situation gives me the ick. I don’t think that phrase should have been made in the first place. Didn’t need to say albino, could have just said snake in the hen house. (Usually I have heard it as fox in the hen house but..) it doesn’t matter what race you are, anyone can have albinism. And Meredith being the author in the community with albinism makes sense why she would assume it was her. Also as someone with a disability people use our ailments in jokes all the time and I don’t always have a problem with it but it gets quite irritating sometimes.
Does anyone actually use the “albino snake” thing other than Bethany? I’ve NEVER heard it. Snake in the hen house? Of course. Snake in the hen house with specific characteristics to imply who is being referred to? Also. But albino snake? Oddly specific and requires more knowledge of snake than the average person has.
Plus, is it really that hard to go “Oh, I am sorry. I meant ‘white’ and didn’t consider my words and their impact. I apologise and will refrain from using it in future. Thank you for pointing it out.”? Doubling down on BUT I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO ADD TO A NEGATIVE STEREOTYPE OF A DISABILITY BECAUSE EVERYONE AROUND ME DOES! is really not a great argument.
I did follow the original drama, as I follow the author of “Iron Maiden” who collected the initial document…there are more details, but ultimately I am glad that authors are looking out for other authors and are policing people like this.
I get that albino snake isn’t meant to be an insult, but when someone with albinism reacted badly to it, it isn’t so nice to be super defensive about it. I would apologize for using this phrase and creating this misunderstanding if it were me, and wouldn’t act like I was there to only accept an apology. It just seems weird because albino was mentioned specifically and misunderstanding was kinda justified.
That would be fair if Bethany wasn't attacked by Meredith and treated as an ablesit, if people want respect they should give it. Bethany told her frankly it wasn't about her, yet Meredith continued to double down and attack Bethany, her defensive at getting called an ablesit was completely justified. While it was justified that Meredith may have thought it was about her, everything else after getting told it wasn't, falls flat.
So, in the queer, community we've recently begun a reckoning with misogynistic terms. I have to say: the way Baptiste defends ableist terms as Black slang reminded me exactly of the way gays got offended when women called out terms like "fish" and "snatched". If someone from a group that is ACTUALLY described by the terms you are using is telling you it's harmful, you don't get to say "No it's not because that's not what I meant." This is the same excuse sexists use, homophobes use, and, yes, even racists use: You've can't be offended by the way I talk because I didn't "mean" it offensively. That's...not how any of this works. Black slang can have vernacular that is harmful to other groups. Their ongoing systemic oppression does not absolve individual Black people of the self-reflection needed to overcome societally inborn ableism. I won't lie, the fact that an ACTUAL ALBINO apologized to HER doesn't really sit right with me.
Perfectly said. Baptiste got WAY to defensive in my opinion. It’s extremely difficult to confront your own problematic actions and behaviors but one AT LEAST needs to have an open mind and open to the idea that they might need to change. She was NOT having that at all.
last time i checked albinos born in Africa would be murdered at birth because of demonic connections or something that turned their skin white. meredith had all the right to not be excited about that. the mortality rates of albinos are much lower due to human intervention. you only get to say an offensive word if it targets you. i feel like I can say the f-slur to my gay friends, because I'm gay and we know each other like that.
black ppl should know that saying its my culture is a bad excuse because imagine a white guy told a black man not to roam around his neighbourhood, because white culture makes it ok for him to say that.
actually disgusting they weren't defending Meredith enough
get mental help
I thought it couldn’t get better than an Austin video about yarn drama, but now we have an Austin video about book drama. Merry Christmas ✨💫🌟
Booktok has their "CLARA, OMG CLARA WAS ON MY COMPUTER" type of author now
ok sorry but meredith has a point about the "albino snake" thing being ableist. this is not a saying referring to a literal snake, it's a saying that uses "albino snake" as a metaphor for a white person. meaning you are using "albino", which is an actual disability that people can have, as a stand-in for "racially white". and the two important things about that are: 1) people of all races can have albinism, and being albino doesn't make someone a "white person", and 2) albino snakes aren't even completely white.
quick biology lesson: albinism is a lack of melanin pigment, which is responsible for black & brown coloration. in humans and most mammals, melanin is the only pigment available, so albinism = no pigment at all = white skin/hair. but reptiles can have red, yellow, and blue pigments in addition to brown, so albino snakes are not necessarily white. an albino king snake, for instance, is pink and yellow - not white at all. most albino snakes are white with spots or stripes of red/pink or yellow. there _is_ a condition that results in complete white color for reptiles, which is called _leucism._ leucistic animals are lacking _all_ pigments, not just melanin, and will be completely white if they have full-body leucism (partial is piebalding).
so the saying is not even referring to the correct condition for the metaphor it's trying to make, and it's using a real condition that real people - both white and non-white - can have instead. i do not blame meredith at all for assuming it was about her - i've never heard the saying with the "albino" added in before in my life, and i had the immediate reaction of "that's kind of an ableist variation on this saying, isn't it?" if you're a debut writer who's also very prominently albino, and you're the only person in that category that you know of, and you've never heard this variation on the saying before, why would you not assume it was about you?
all the people defending the use of the term and telling her she was being unreasonable was really surprising to me tbh. especially the ones going "the saying is about a literal animal" because, uh, it's not? the animal is a metaphor for a person? like, very obviously so??? and just because a phrase is commonly used does not mean it can't be offensive. many other common sayings have fallen out of favor in recent years because people pointed out their problematic aspects, and i think this one needs to go the same way. "leucistic snake" is both more accurate to what's being expressed _and_ less offensive because leucistic humans do not exist. "oh but they say albino because people don't know what leucism is" so? they have google. use it enough and eventually this problem goes away.
Perfectly said. I’m actually surprised by the number of people in the Bethany defense squad.
no suprise that the author wrote Reylo fanfictions, most of that fandom has been racist and problematic for years
IKR? Seeing them come out trying to look like heroes in this situation pisses me off so much. It’s been ten years of watching them make the Star Wars fandom hell for everyone else. They drove some of the best out of this fandom and made things hell for actual actors. I’m so mad that they’re using this situation to try to make themselves look good.
I'm convinced that if Finn had been played by a white actor then Reylos wouldn't have been nearly as prevalent as they were
@@thotsandpears so true. i never understood why they so heavily attacked finn’s actor when it was the writers who for some reason tried to make him have feelings for rey. and literally no one shipped them together anyways so reylo’s were just being so nasty for no reason.
They really are. I vaguely liked reylo at the time, but quickly got sick of it when all the reylo shippers got so nasty to others. Like i just dont understand it. Its totally cool to like finnrey too - i certainly do. But reylo shippers were really on some other level with their bullhonky. I pretty much refused to watch the last movie because of how bad the fandom got and then the projection for reylo to be a thing. Purely because of how nasty and racist the shippers were.
I would have said that I'm confident that all of them are literal children, but the fact that nsfw reylo is still one of the top star wars sequel fanfics on ao3 make me think otherwise. (You should go in with filters *on* if you don't have a bottle of bleach on hand)
It'll have been cool if it was AU or the plot was well written y'know like the genocidal maniac in charge of a child soldier army actually got punished for it, but almost every single one I've read paints Kylo as a pure sweetheart or all that matters is that he's soft for Rey.
Didn’t Roseanne Barr try a similar excuse about how her meds made her racist? Went over about as well as this did.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think Bethany should’ve apologised to Meredith for the “albino snake” comment and taken that as a lesson to not use such a problematic slang term.
same
But is it problematic? Albino snakes are a thing that exist, they are just white snakes, I don't think many people would associate this with albino people, because the huge majority of people has never in their life met an albino human, the association just wouldn't come quickly , and apparently these two people didn't even know each other previously, maybe it would be nice for her to apologise because the other person seemed to be hurt, but, at least in my opinion, it doesn't seem to a problematic saying.
@@bluester7177albinism is a disability that affects all races and causes blindness. It’s a legitimate disability. To use it to describe a white person is ignorant at best and dismissive of a disability and the struggles associated with disability at worst, so yes. If an albino person says it’s not ok then it’s not ok. It’s definitely ableist and should never be used so flippantly
It’s disgusting behaviour. If someone said something to her and she found it offensive as a POC then she’s speak out expect the other person to listen and learn. This is the same thing. She flippantly used a term form a disability that few people understand and refused to take accountability for it when pulled up by an actual albino person. It’s also complete ignorance as albinism affects all races
I think it would have been best if she just immediately cleared up that she wasnt talking about Meredith and apologized for the discomfort she might have caused her. Instead of making Meredith feel irrelevant and indirectly undermining her feelings, but I can also see Bethany's POV.
the whole convo is so unserious😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I will say, you saying a breakdown wouldn't cause someone to 'be productive enough' to d this, is an absolute lie. It sounds like she may have had a manic breakdown. Mental illness is more than just lying down and not having energy. Anyone going 'I had a mental breakdown too so yours isn't real" can get fucked. It sounds like she went through some WILD splitting (I have BPD, I split too but I'm on good meds, have therapy and have never had an urge to go on a racist tirade because of it, weird how that works Cait) and manic stuff. It sounds like she was keeping down some real racist thoughts in her day to day, which came out in her breakdown, which I fully believe she had. Her choices afterwards (the gaslighting, sloppily faking the text convo and claiming she was also a victim) and the parts of her personality it revealed are absolutely fucked up and wrong, but can people stop insisting the depressive way is the only way to be mentally ill and in need of support? Christ, guys. We can call her out without demanding mental illnesses all be expressed identically.
That albino arc is kind of insane. It seems quite reasonable to me to feel like someone is talking about you when you are albino and that info is publicly available. Whether the other person knew is kind of irrelevant. I don't understand why it's so hard to say something like "That's not what I meant to imply and I wasn't aware that you are albino."
????
1. bethany's tweet was made hours before meredith showed up and inserted herself in that bullshit 2. she flat out said she's referring to white people, not people with albinism and, i quote: nobody coming for you. and she said she didn't know either, so what are you not understanding
@@danielle7988 I mean she should have just said "white snake" in that case. Using a disability as part of an insult is not good. Albinism can impact people of any race it is not a synonym for a white person.
@@MC-yt1uv yeah and if someone said black snake? double standard
Isn't that exactly what Bethany did though? Like he literally showed all of that happening. I'm bringing to think y'all just want to attack a black woman because ain't no way we were just ignoring all the evidence.
Albino snakes aren't typically even white; they're yellow. Why not just say white snake lol
Albino snakes are white with yellow stripes, not all yellow, but often people confuse albinism with leucism, leucism creates the all white snakes.
i’m not actually convinced that her explanation is untruthful. setting up a bunch of burners and starting to believe some really crazy shit sounds totally plausible for someone suffering from a manic episode, especially if substances are involved. that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t be held accountable for the harm that she caused, but the backlash of “saying your new meds caused (insert offensive behavior/belief) just increases the stigma against people with real mental health issues” is very misguided. there are a lot of people for whom that sort of disconnection from reality can cause some truly awful behavior and they are still deserving of treatment and empathy, even as they are held accountable for any damage they caused.
remember folks: if a manic, psychotic breakdown can make someone believe that they have a microchip implanted in their brain by literal ancient aliens to control their every thought and action, then it sure as hell can make them believe in conspiratorial bullshit tied to real-life bigotry. the difference isn’t in one being possible and the other not. the difference is that one is inherently harmful to other people and therefore must be handled differently.
This, thank you, sometimes it feels like people want to destigmatise only the more milder conditions which are more palatable.
Meredith is the one who apologized??? And *bethany* forgave her?? Bruh 💀 it’s really not difficult to admit that you’re used to using offensive language and apologize for it, Meredith is yet another person who’s been silenced when they’re the ones who have every right to speak up
"albino snake in the hen house" Wut? I have never heard of that as a southern phrase. Just trying to google for it only pulls up Bethany's statement. Adding the word albino in there feels really out of pocket.
How is no-one talking about the albino joke, just because its a phrase doesn't mean it can't do harm, if it hurt someone then apologize after explaining and move on, we can all be unintentionally harmful to others, Bethany was so unempathetic wtf
THIS! There are SO many old phrases that do not hold up over time, and I cannot think of any other instance where someone from a marginalized community would be like "Hey, this thing you said hurt me and people like me" and IMMEDIATELY get turned on by the general public without the barest hint of reflection from the offender.
Like, if someone referred to something small as being a midget, and actual people with dwarfism said "that hurts," the argument that people have been using the term "midget" casually for centuries doesn't hold water. Imagine the gall of saying "no no, it's fine, the group you're part of has *always* been used as shorthand for this thing we dislike."
I think they came to terms with the comment in private and both meant to drop the matter. I completely understand Meredith's initial reaction, but it sounds like Bethany got defensive because she's probably encountered discrimination over her vernacular speech before. Language and dialect based bigotry is very real, unfortunately.
It wasn't a joke stop spreading misinformation because of your hurt feelings
@@kristinesynowka106 the irony is that “albino snake in the hen house” is not southern vernacular, and it’s not a phrase that has been used by anyone apart from Bethany ever. Google that phrase with quotes, and the only time anyone has every used that phrase verbatim is Bethany.
@@Hasblock I think the "albino snake" part by itself was the proposed slang. Admittedly, several quick Google searches on that phrase mostly result in websites trying to sell me actual albino snake morphs.
Probably the more important take away is that the two ladies seem to have resolved the matter between the two of them. I'm also guessing that if I was in Meredith's position there's a decent chance that I would feel mortified that social media hadn't lost interest in this yet. :(
One thing I agree with this person on is that using a disability, sexual identity or race in an insult isnt appropriate. I include the last two because those are also things that people use as insults that are generally understood as not okay and inappropriate.
Right but she wasn’t using a disability as an insult. She was using a word that literally means to lack pigmentation or color. It occurs in nature and is a disability to humans. She wasn’t referencing the human condition.
@@Musa87000they literally wrote, that it referred to white people. So, they were talking about skin colour. Racism is racism even if it comes from POC towards white people. Ableism is ableism even though the person with the condition is white.
@@SummerOfMayhemthey were referring to white people who pick on POC or marginalised group, that's not racism that's calling out racism
@@sakurayankishi9708 so they use a term to refer to a select group of people who do something, and that is not racism? Do they call black people who pick on white people "black snakes" then?
@@sakurayankishi9708two wrongs don't make a right bruhbruh. Black people using 'albino' as a shorthand for white people is nearly always with a negative connotation. It's just not a good colloquialism. There are lots of expressions that are better left to the side, this is one of them. Enough said.
PFFFFFT if that text convo is any indication of her writing, nah, I've got no interest in her book anyway
The email from GR she got implies that they know she did it which makes sense. They probably have access to the IP information. It's a really bad move to just post that like 😂. Really just told on yourself thinking people wouldn't read the content of the email. Like why would goodreads send an email telling you it's against the rules and not goodreads saying "hey we're sorry you got caught up in this, we're working on resolving the issue"?
Girl doesn't know what a VPN is 😂
@@trashteriyucky they probably can determine that you are using a vpn, i tried to leave a review on royalroad for a book i enjoyed forgetting that i was using a vpn and the site didn't let me post, unfortantely if i did want to post the review i wouuld have to rewrite the review and i didn't feel like doing that.
I feel bad for the person who got targeted for no reason because some people don't know that calling out someone an "albino snake" is a bad thing- they should have just write "white snake" if they wanted to portray a white person and not make a reference for a disability that one of the authors has -
It wasn't a reference tho she stated that....
i mean according to her the saying originally goes “albino snake”, she didn’t know about the authors disability so she wouldn’t really have felt the need to change how the saying goes. it was honestly just a confusion i feel like
I think she could've just used snake.
@@fairyfool2541 I'm calling bullshit on that though because the phrase is "fox in the hen house." Not snake. She was trying to call Cait a snake and subtweet that she's talking about a white person but chose... albino??? Makes no sense.
@@joosoojust because you are ignorant about other people's saying and cultures doesn't mean that the things people say don't make sense. In the south albino snake is pretty common and it literally just means a white snake.
that discord conversation sounds like some artificial drama i manufactured when i was in middle school. so funny
This reminds me of that old Welcome to Tumblr animation from a decade ago where one of the jokes was about "Night Blogging" or blogging while drunk or high.
"Post things that you'll immediately regret the next morning. When you're inevitably confronted by angry mobs of your followers, simply tell them that you lost control of your feels and that you have a debilitating gold-rush era disease that prevents you from thinking clearly at night."
No night blogging is in reference to those who are on the other side of the world posting while the rest of the website (americans) were asleep
This whole thing is insane but why did the lady with albinism have to apologize for catching ableist strays? I get it was a misunderstanding but people actually have albinism... maybe we shouldn't just throw around that word when we're trying to insult people.
I can't believe she used the Roseanne Ambien excuse lmfao. Classic
My opinion is that they were unnecessarily rude to the albino author. They could have just responded that "Black ppl refer to white ppl as albinos as an insult" but no she had to go off? It seemed clear the albino author misunderstood. Also she has a point, it is rude to make fun of albinism and use it as a mockery of white ppl, considering anyone of any race can have it. Its not that big a deal but that exchange irked me...
The insult wasn't the albino though, the insult is calling rhe person a snake, the albino is just the adjective, white snakes are almost always albino, so the point was " unamed author is white and a snake."
The whole "lily" conversation literally reads like a shitty Jekyll and Hyde fanfiction.
I'm mental ill but ive yet to be racist
Regarding the snake in the hen house, it doesn't matter that Bethany wasn't referring to Meredith, Meredith was right when she said that using albinism as an insult is akin to using "gay" or the r-word as an insult. It might be a real expression, but that doesn't make saying it ok and she sounds foolish defending herself for it rather than admitting it is a poor turn of phrase that she won't use anymore.
The insult is "snake" not albino. Albino is just refering to the color of the snake. There are albino animals of pretty much every species. It does not refer to the genetic mutation as an insult. It's not that hard. If albino was an insult she would not put it in her bio.
@@milacruz3970 it doesn't matter. If someone said there is a retarded snake in the hen house or a gay snake in the hen house or a cripple snake in the hen house, the insult is snake, and they are all inappropriate to qualify snake in those ways. Just because the expression exists doesn't make it ok to defend.
Frankly this is all incredibly childish.
Pro tip: If you’re going to fake a conversation, don’t have both people use the same idiosyncratic punctuation.
The other authors getting defensive about their albino comment is what fueled their ableism. Just say you’re sorry and didn’t know it was like that and THEN move on. 👍
She wasn't ableist because she wasn't talking about albino people, she wasnt talking about the other girl at all, she didn't evem know she existed, she used albino snake because it's a white snake, it has no relationship to albinism in humans and albinism itself isn't a disability, the mutations can cause disability but it isn't a given, most albino people are as healthy as the rest of the population, how can you be ableist about something that isn't a disability? Specially when you meant the pigmentation of a real animal.
@@bluester7177 Not necessarily a disability (can lead to it) but a condition that changes the way a person lives their life. Albino snake refers to the same condition. It’s a phrase that shouldn’t be said anymore. We can understand why she was offended, right? Is it hard for them not to just retract that statement?