People complain about the tension of the Noga FAT head but it is adjustable. Besides the adjustment knob you'll notice a small red rubber/plastic plug. On the other side of that plug you'll see a round fitting with a small indentation in the side. Pop the plug out with a small pick or the tip of a knife blade and you'll find an Allen head screw. Put some thing in the recess on the other end and you can tighten the tension with, if I remember correctly, a 1.5mm Allen key. Don't over do it as the spring tension is caused by a stack of beleville washers.
As an Ames and Noga user what I do is turn the fine adjust upside down so the weight pushes against the screw instead and it works fine. A much stiffer spring would be nice.
Thank you for the review. I'd like to add something that wasn't mentioned. The Aventor uses hydraulic fluid, while the Noga uses a mechanical push rod to lock the arms.
That is probably the most useful information I have seen in a long time. How many of us have wondered weather a Shars indicator arm would be money in the trash as so many Chinese products are. Good Job, James!
You hit the nail on the head. The fine adjuster on the Noga sucks. Everything else about the Noga is great. How they screwed up that critical part is beyond me. Thanks for the good review.
Thanks for the video man! I've been wanting to get another mag base indicator stand lately to have an extra but indecisive what to get. Looks like the Shars is a good unit!
THE Secret to a Better NOGA fine adjustment. Tighten the spring! It uses a stack of belleville washers. Just tighten the screw and the washers conpress. Problem solved. Night and Day difference.
This video is very timely for me. I have been looking at the Shars indicator arm to replace my rigid solid arm set up. You decided for me. I just ordered the medium size arm since I have smaller machinery.
I have 3 Noga stands. Very happy with them. When I need another, I'll give the Shars' stand serious consideration. Liked everything about it. A beautiful Ames, BTW.
Great comparison . Especially the fine adjust part . I think i will continue with the old style sticks & knobs one until i can afford a base adjust one . Cheers .
I've got two of the Noga MA61003. One full size and one I machined down to half sized. Takes about 75 pounds to move the arm when it's locked. The indicator springs are soft but it's easy enough to swap for a heavier one. I've never run into an indicator that heavy. My biggest indicator is a 3" Federal tenths and it works fine.
Great review. Just wish we could get either unit here in the U.K. for less than £80. Last time I looked the NOGA was £160+. Good to see you in the shop Mr Kilroy. All the best Mat
I recently bought an used but good as new Holdtech HT4300 which appears to be an unlabeled Noga MG71003. I already own a cheap chinese holder which worked okay but you had to put much force on it to let it stay in place. Anyway, I am pleased with it but not overly excited. I cleaned all the parts an lubricated it with fine-mechanic oil. The bottom ball joint and the middle joint are moving very smooth but the top ball joint feels a little bit scratchy. Even lubrication didnt made it smoother. What it dont like much is the fine adjustment head. The 1/4" dovetail in the front wont fit to my german made Käfer dial test indidacator. Its just to tight. So i dissasembled the rotable part and took out the serrated lock washer (which is 1,5mm in thickness) between the frame and the rotable part and put it back all togehter and voila, the dovetail fits. I think the washer is for locking the holder in position but do they not have a qualitiy inspection? This is a big flaw. Also the fine adjustment with the srew is not as smooth as in their marketing videos. I need 3-4 tries to get the needle to my designated number on the dial. In my apprenticeship we used only hydraulic bases from the german company Hörger&Gässler. I remember that they need only little of force to make it rocksolid. But they are very, very expensive. Another flaw was a little error in the die-casting or a not well made deburring before the painting of the fine adjustment head. There was a little piece of to much metal in die yoke so the rotatable clamping part scratched over this... Very poor. Is it possible that the Shars in your video is also a hydraulic one? Normally a mechanical one has the screw going through both arms. Thats why you can see it at the Noga. Hydraulic one dont have that screw because they build up pressure by a piston That goes in by turning the locking screw.
Thanks, for the review. I use the lesser quality knock offs in my shop, and had decent results with them, any articulated indicator stand is an upgrade over the older style stands. For the professional or serious home shop guy, either would be the way to go.
The comparison I would like to have seen is overall rigidity of the arm. With DTI mounted and arm at full extension, how much deflection is there when a measured load is applied to the DTI.
Completely agree - that is the critical comparison (although the fine adjust on the Noga is completely unacceptable). Measure this with a 0-1" dial indicator against a mill table or lathe (ideally with a DRO). Move the table by a known amount and watch the reading on the dial indicator. Gage blocks would work well, too.
If I'm not mistaken much of the Shars catalog is made in Taiwan, or rather, the Republic of China. Usually much more consistent quality than Communist China but still cheap! Kind of like Japan in the 80s. Eventually a Taiwanese firm might build a reputation like some Japanese companies have and go head to head on price with American and European companies.
I'll tell you this honestly, this is the truth. I own both Shars and Mitutoyo measuring tools, a fair investment in both brands. Is the Shars the same quality as the Mity? No. Is it really damn close? Yes. As in so close, that is normal use, you are never going to tell. That Shar's mag base holder that I talk about in this video is every bit as good as any Noga I have ever owned. This video is now three years old and that same exact unit is still working as well as the day I got it.
I'm looking at a starrett indicator in a pawn shop right now that they are wanting $121.00 for. It has a flat shape with like a V built into it on bottom which I believe is magnetic. And an on-off switch. I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you use it for
Personally, I will never buy another indicator holder that has the fine adjustment incorporated up by the indicator clamp, so both of these would be out. If you ever can use one that has the fine adjustment down by the magnetic base you will discover a world of difference. Up by the indicator clamp they will over or undershoot any setting you are attempting to make. Holders with the fine adjustment by the base are rock steady as you move the fine adjustment knob. There is no comparison in my opinion. I am even considering modifying a couple of mine to base type fine adjustment if I ever get the time. It’s that big of difference.
Paul Copeland type in to eBay “4401-0532” and a Chinese clone will come up. (I just did it) Noga also has a version if you want to spend more money for it. This past weekend I watched a RUclips video and the presenter talked about it and how much he liked it. Showed its operation in relation to indicator movement comparing it to the top adjust and everything. I think it might have been part of an Abom video, but I’m not sure. Mine is a no name Chinese with no markings on it other than on off. I’ve had it so long I have no idea where I bought it. If I had to guess I probably bought it from Kabaco Tools before they became KBC Tools. I bought a lot of machinist tools from them back in my formative years way before EBay.
I don't know when NOGA started importing to USA, but I purchased my first NOGA 25 + years ago. It was the second NOGA product purchased in our 75+ man shop. It has aluminum arms. My more recent NOGAs have steel arms and one rusted in my non air conditioned home shop. I prefer the NOGA locking style over the two handed mag base styles. I have about a dozen quality mag bases, but I reach for NOGA most of the time. I don't favor the NOGA base fine adjustment. I only have one and it is on a very heavy duty model. The steel arms seem too heavy for the spring. NOGA didn't have the plastic knob chemistry right in the early versions. The plastic failed. My oldest NOGA sports a shop made brass knob. The indicator clamp knob has been broken for a long time, but it holds a dedicated travel indicator, so I haven't bothered to repair it. Mitutoyo had an impressive one knob mag base that I was considering before my first NOGA purchase. It was more costly. I believe it was hydraulic. I have never favored the cable tensioning bases even if you stepped up to Starrett. They always seemed to drift. I own Mitutoyo, Starrett, B&S, NOGA, and one Fowler. All are good solid tools, but I still like NOGA for that first grab!
I don't know...for the difference in price, I'd probably stick with the Noga. The smaller base is an advantage to me. Perhaps the Aluminum arm is more rigid but that's an unknown at the moment. And, although I have LOTS of Chinese stuff, it's nice the Noga is not made in China. As others have said though...my future purchases with have the fine adjustment in the base. Thanks for the review.
Nice comparison James. One thing you didn't mention was the effort to tighten the arm. The Noga uses a bearing whereas most import copies have no bearing therefor it takes a lot more effort to keep the imports from moving. Does the Shars use a bearing?
The size of the base is how they get it to have the magnetic pull of the better magnets of the NOGA. I'd rather have the smaller base. I'd like to see a test of the rigidity of the 2 stands. For $10 more I'd buy the NOGA because you know they are a great stand and aren't made in China.
This exactly. If it was a 50% cheaper, I'd consider it, but for $10, I'd rather buy name brand rather than a copy, even if they are both functionally the same.
@Chris thanks for sharing that. That explains what's happening really well. You should spread that all around the internet. I think it would help people understand what's going on and maybe people would change their ways. God bless you! Have you placed your faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, for the justification of your sin so you go to heaven instead of spending eternity in hell when you die?
I use a cheap version of these that works well for my limited use,and am curious how the "better" ones work. There once was one,(no idea of the brand) that was hydraulic , which worked well but tended to leak, I have a vague memory of one that used a tube filled with steel balls. Mine uses a rod with a tapered end to engage the locking mechanism. Any chance of getting a "how they work" video to satisfy the curious?
I have one of those hydraulic indicator holders and it has leaked since the day I got it. The only reason I kept it is because when it works, it works great: very rigid. I wasn't able to find any information on how to disassembly the unit to replace the o-rings, but I did eventually figure it out. I suspect that the original o-rings were not Buna-N, but some crappy Chinese knock-off. After replacing all them with silicone o-rings, the holder works great without leaks for the first time.
Awesome 👍 I was looking on the website and seen them and was wondering if they were any good. I got a noga knockoff that works ok for me but does take time to setup. Thanks for sharing.
Can't believe NOGA hasn't had enough negative feedback about their lousy top fine adjustment that they wouldn't have changed it by now. If NOGA offered a better fine adjust , I'd buy it in a second.
how do you figure its 50% more expensive when there is only a ten dollar price difference? its actually like a 9 percent difference I didn't do the math but its nowhere near 50%
Funny that you bring that up. There are plenty of patents assigned to "Noga Engineering Services" but I can't find a single one that has anything to do with these types of products, except a hollow one for coolant.
Yeah but they just steal the design it looks like a direct rip off of the Noga you are essentially encouraging people to but chinese products that have ripped off the design and IP of other companies - and they sponsor you. bye.
Patent law leaves a lot to be desired. Chinese manufacturing has never really paid much attention anyway. But to be fair, I’d be hard pressed to find a household that isn’t currently benefiting from “ripped off product design of other companies”...
You speak as if Noga was the first to make that particular design. I for one don't really care. I'd never buy either. Both of the original manufacturing states commit horrid crimes against humanity in 2020, the year of our lord. So i try to limit my connection with trash, if you know what i mean.
If you must go there. It's much closer to a copy of a Tesa. Which is imported to the US under the Brown and Sharpe name. A Tesa is $600. Its not a copy of a Noga. www.misterworker.com/en/search?controller=search&s=01639053
I like the way you made this comparation Mr. Wig.
People complain about the tension of the Noga FAT head but it is adjustable. Besides the adjustment knob you'll notice a small red rubber/plastic plug. On the other side of that plug you'll see a round fitting with a small indentation in the side. Pop the plug out with a small pick or the tip of a knife blade and you'll find an Allen head screw. Put some thing in the recess on the other end and you can tighten the tension with, if I remember correctly, a 1.5mm Allen key. Don't over do it as the spring tension is caused by a stack of beleville washers.
As an Ames and Noga user what I do is turn the fine adjust upside down so the weight pushes against the screw instead and it works fine. A much stiffer spring would be nice.
See my post above.
I do the same, but it sure is nice to have the knob up top. Also works a lot better in sideways (face) orientation as well.
Thank you for the review. I'd like to add something that wasn't mentioned. The Aventor uses hydraulic fluid, while the Noga uses a mechanical push rod to lock the arms.
And no leaks all time time either!
That is probably the most useful information I have seen in a long time. How many of us have wondered weather a Shars indicator arm would be money in the trash as so many Chinese products are. Good Job, James!
I bought 2 of these because of those reviews. I intend to give an honest review after a few months of use
Still using mine after all this time, still great
How about a link to that review?
You hit the nail on the head. The fine adjuster on the Noga sucks. Everything else about the Noga is great. How they screwed up that critical part is beyond me. Thanks for the good review.
Thanks for the video man! I've been wanting to get another mag base indicator stand lately to have an extra but indecisive what to get. Looks like the Shars is a good unit!
Wow! I've been buying Nogas for a while now, great to see that there's a better deal, thanks!
THE Secret to a Better NOGA fine adjustment. Tighten the spring! It uses a stack of belleville washers. Just tighten the screw and the washers conpress. Problem solved. Night and Day difference.
This video is very timely for me. I have been looking at the Shars indicator arm to replace my rigid solid arm set up. You decided for me. I just ordered the medium size arm since I have smaller machinery.
I have 3 Noga stands. Very happy with them. When I need another, I'll give the Shars' stand serious consideration. Liked everything about it. A beautiful Ames, BTW.
I have been happy with the quality of all the Shars products. The Aventador line seems a step above the normal imported stuff!
Great comparison . Especially the fine adjust part . I think i will continue with the old style sticks & knobs one until i can afford a base adjust one . Cheers .
I've got two of the Noga MA61003. One full size and one I machined down to half sized. Takes about 75 pounds to move the arm when it's locked. The indicator springs are soft but it's easy enough to swap for a heavier one. I've never run into an indicator that heavy. My biggest indicator is a 3" Federal tenths and it works fine.
Great review. Just wish we could get either unit here in the U.K. for less than £80. Last time I looked the NOGA was £160+.
Good to see you in the shop Mr Kilroy. All the best Mat
Thanks James for the summary and honest assessment
I recently bought an used but good as new Holdtech HT4300 which appears to be an unlabeled Noga MG71003. I already own a cheap chinese holder which worked okay but you had to put much force on it to let it stay in place. Anyway, I am pleased with it but not overly excited. I cleaned all the parts an lubricated it with fine-mechanic oil. The bottom ball joint and the middle joint are moving very smooth but the top ball joint feels a little bit scratchy. Even lubrication didnt made it smoother. What it dont like much is the fine adjustment head. The 1/4" dovetail in the front wont fit to my german made Käfer dial test indidacator. Its just to tight. So i dissasembled the rotable part and took out the serrated lock washer (which is 1,5mm in thickness) between the frame and the rotable part and put it back all togehter and voila, the dovetail fits. I think the washer is for locking the holder in position but do they not have a qualitiy inspection? This is a big flaw. Also the fine adjustment with the srew is not as smooth as in their marketing videos. I need 3-4 tries to get the needle to my designated number on the dial. In my apprenticeship we used only hydraulic bases from the german company Hörger&Gässler. I remember that they need only little of force to make it rocksolid. But they are very, very expensive. Another flaw was a little error in the die-casting or a not well made deburring before the painting of the fine adjustment head. There was a little piece of to much metal in die yoke so the rotatable clamping part scratched over this... Very poor.
Is it possible that the Shars in your video is also a hydraulic one? Normally a mechanical one has the screw going through both arms. Thats why you can see it at the Noga. Hydraulic one dont have that screw because they build up pressure by a piston That goes in by turning the locking screw.
Thanks, for the review. I use the lesser quality knock offs in my shop, and had decent results with them, any articulated indicator stand is an upgrade over the older style stands. For the professional or serious home shop guy, either would be the way to go.
The comparison I would like to have seen is overall rigidity of the arm. With DTI mounted and arm at full extension, how much deflection is there when a measured load is applied to the DTI.
Yes, that rigidity makes a difference.
You beat me to it;-) Comparing the arms without testing deflection, and play, is an absolutely meaningless evaluation.
Completely agree - that is the critical comparison (although the fine adjust on the Noga is completely unacceptable). Measure this with a 0-1" dial indicator against a mill table or lathe (ideally with a DRO). Move the table by a known amount and watch the reading on the dial indicator. Gage blocks would work well, too.
If I'm not mistaken much of the Shars catalog is made in Taiwan, or rather, the Republic of China. Usually much more consistent quality than Communist China but still cheap! Kind of like Japan in the 80s. Eventually a Taiwanese firm might build a reputation like some Japanese companies have and go head to head on price with American and European companies.
I'll tell you this honestly, this is the truth. I own both Shars and Mitutoyo measuring tools, a fair investment in both brands. Is the Shars the same quality as the Mity? No. Is it really damn close? Yes. As in so close, that is normal use, you are never going to tell. That Shar's mag base holder that I talk about in this video is every bit as good as any Noga I have ever owned. This video is now three years old and that same exact unit is still working as well as the day I got it.
nice job. I have welded more than one noga fine adjust solid for guys at my shop. keep up the good work
I'm looking at a starrett indicator in a pawn shop right now that they are wanting $121.00 for. It has a flat shape with like a V built into it on bottom which I believe is magnetic. And an on-off switch. I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you use it for
The V is to use it on round stock or pipe. $121 is a bit high unless it is pristine
Personally, I will never buy another indicator holder that has the fine adjustment incorporated up by the indicator clamp, so both of these would be out. If you ever can use one that has the fine adjustment down by the magnetic base you will discover a world of difference. Up by the indicator clamp they will over or undershoot any setting you are attempting to make. Holders with the fine adjustment by the base are rock steady as you move the fine adjustment knob. There is no comparison in my opinion. I am even considering modifying a couple of mine to base type fine adjustment if I ever get the time. It’s that big of difference.
I am going to have to try a base adjust, never use one.
What brand is this magic holder you always use?
Paul Copeland type in to eBay “4401-0532” and a Chinese clone will come up. (I just did it) Noga also has a version if you want to spend more money for it. This past weekend I watched a RUclips video and the presenter talked about it and how much he liked it. Showed its operation in relation to indicator movement comparing it to the top adjust and everything. I think it might have been part of an Abom video, but I’m not sure. Mine is a no name Chinese with no markings on it other than on off. I’ve had it so long I have no idea where I bought it. If I had to guess I probably bought it from Kabaco Tools before they became KBC Tools. I bought a lot of machinist tools from them back in my formative years way before EBay.
I don't know when NOGA started importing to USA, but I purchased my first NOGA 25 + years ago. It was the second NOGA product purchased in our 75+ man shop. It has aluminum arms. My more recent NOGAs have steel arms and one rusted in my non air conditioned home shop. I prefer the NOGA locking style over the two handed mag base styles. I have about a dozen quality mag bases, but I reach for NOGA most of the time. I don't favor the NOGA base fine adjustment. I only have one and it is on a very heavy duty model. The steel arms seem too heavy for the spring.
NOGA didn't have the plastic knob chemistry right in the early versions. The plastic failed. My oldest NOGA sports a shop made brass knob. The indicator clamp knob has been broken for a long time, but it holds a dedicated travel indicator, so I haven't bothered to repair it.
Mitutoyo had an impressive one knob mag base that I was considering before my first NOGA purchase. It was more costly. I believe it was hydraulic. I have never favored the cable tensioning bases even if you stepped up to Starrett. They always seemed to drift.
I own Mitutoyo, Starrett, B&S, NOGA, and one Fowler. All are good solid tools, but I still like NOGA for that first grab!
I don't know...for the difference in price, I'd probably stick with the Noga. The smaller base is an advantage to me. Perhaps the Aluminum arm is more rigid but that's an unknown at the moment. And, although I have LOTS of Chinese stuff, it's nice the Noga is not made in China. As others have said though...my future purchases with have the fine adjustment in the base. Thanks for the review.
Great product review James.
Great review. Did you disinfect the unit?
Nice comparison James. One thing you didn't mention was the effort to tighten the arm. The Noga uses a bearing whereas most import copies have no bearing therefor it takes a lot more effort to keep the imports from moving. Does the Shars use a bearing?
I'll have to take a look, but it takes no more effort to get the same hold
The size of the base is how they get it to have the magnetic pull of the better magnets of the NOGA. I'd rather have the smaller base.
I'd like to see a test of the rigidity of the 2 stands.
For $10 more I'd buy the NOGA because you know they are a great stand and aren't made in China.
This exactly. If it was a 50% cheaper, I'd consider it, but for $10, I'd rather buy name brand rather than a copy, even if they are both functionally the same.
@Chris thanks for sharing that. That explains what's happening really well. You should spread that all around the internet. I think it would help people understand what's going on and maybe people would change their ways.
God bless you!
Have you placed your faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, for the justification of your sin so you go to heaven instead of spending eternity in hell when you die?
could you compare the flex for us ? mount them both with a indicator and then use your luggage scale to see the actual difference in stiffness ?
I love my Ames indicators also. May have to pick up one to mount a video camera to for filming.
Excellent review J, Shars has some nice products! 👍
Interesting, thanks for the review James
Shars sent me one of there catalogs after the Bash. I never knew they had so many products.
I will take your advice. Thanks.
Looks like a copyof a Horger and Gassler german indicator stand. HG is a beast
Good review, I'll give them a try.
Competition is good. Thanks for the review.
Us that not the Noga MG61003? The DG61003 is slightly more light duty one,but that is the heavy duty one you have?
Looks like a great product!
Looks good.
I use a cheap version of these that works well for my limited use,and am curious how the "better" ones work. There once was one,(no idea of the brand) that was hydraulic , which worked well but tended to leak, I have a vague memory of one that used a tube filled with steel balls. Mine uses a rod with a tapered end to engage the locking mechanism. Any chance of getting a "how they work" video to satisfy the curious?
Hmmm, I am guessing I could take one apart. Now, can I get it back together?
@@jtkilroy someone or something did at the factory! And my cheapo was super easy. Any chance of manufacturer's or patent drawings?
@@lesbender236 I have been searching patents left and right. The only clear patents on these things I can find were filed by Enco of all people.
I have one of those hydraulic indicator holders and it has leaked since the day I got it. The only reason I kept it is because when it works, it works great: very rigid. I wasn't able to find any information on how to disassembly the unit to replace the o-rings, but I did eventually figure it out. I suspect that the original o-rings were not Buna-N, but some crappy Chinese knock-off. After replacing all them with silicone o-rings, the holder works great without leaks for the first time.
Here is a video mrpete222 did on a Noga how it works video.
ruclips.net/video/ZXu8bgz29OU/видео.html
Great review 👍🏻
Is the sharks internal hydraulic or mechanical?
Awesome 👍 I was looking on the website and seen them and was wondering if they were any good. I got a noga knockoff that works ok for me but does take time to setup. Thanks for sharing.
... and the Noga sniper team moves into position...
Can't believe NOGA hasn't had enough negative feedback about their lousy top fine adjustment that they wouldn't have changed it by now.
If NOGA offered a better fine adjust , I'd buy it in a second.
You can adjust the pressure by tightening the spring pressure.
Nice review.
I have a Chinese indicator and it uses hydraulics to to lock the arms, it leaks and no longer holds
Does that come with the ( Corona Virus )Just throwing that in there.We all are looking for wider ,bigger is better.Great review !
Mag base corona virus?
Noga Made in ?
Isreal
how do you figure its 50% more expensive when there is only a ten dollar price difference? its actually like a 9 percent difference I didn't do the math but its nowhere near 50%
The Shars wins hands down
Did Sharks create a Noga (that’s 3 years old) killer?
"Sharks" !! Yikes.
Paul Copeland I get so excited when I have something to say that I fall apart. Lol
Hello guy i use only Japanese precision tools why quality yes they are expensive but they well made!
that's a fisso knockoff you have over there
And a mighty nice one at that. Still works great.
@@jtkilroy the last time i've checked, it was like $200 for the junior size. and some hundred $$ more for the larger sizes. so yeah..
Fisso contracts HG Germany to make them indicator stands, lots of them have HG engraved on them
The NOGA are just copies of a swiss design, they skirt around copyright and patents being an Israeli company.
Funny that you bring that up. There are plenty of patents assigned to "Noga Engineering Services" but I can't find a single one that has anything to do with these types of products, except a hollow one for coolant.
Yeah but they just steal the design it looks like a direct rip off of the Noga you are essentially encouraging people to but chinese products that have ripped off the design and IP of other companies - and they sponsor you. bye.
Patent law leaves a lot to be desired. Chinese manufacturing has never really paid much attention anyway. But to be fair, I’d be hard pressed to find a household that isn’t currently benefiting from “ripped off product design of other companies”...
Isn't the Shars more a knock off of the German design, which is possibly the original of this type of indicator holder.
You speak as if Noga was the first to make that particular design. I for one don't really care. I'd never buy either. Both of the original manufacturing states commit horrid crimes against humanity in 2020, the year of our lord. So i try to limit my connection with trash, if you know what i mean.
If you must go there. It's much closer to a copy of a Tesa. Which is imported to the US under the Brown and Sharpe name. A Tesa is $600. Its not a copy of a Noga.
www.misterworker.com/en/search?controller=search&s=01639053
Correct, the Tesa.
Why do you say that shars made it? Isn't Aventor the brand? Or is it a sub brand of Shars?