YES! I just finished the book last night and that is exactly what i thought about when I read that story arc! I really think that he is going to "resurrect" Maya in some way!
I know this book is all about Dalinar, but I'm a Szeth fanboy and I absolutely loved his entrance to the Battle of Thaylen Field, when he swooped down from the sky and literally split a thunderclast in half.
MAN that was sooooo epic!!!, one of my favorite scenes (most likely only second to THE scene), and it puts things in to perspective how op szeth/nightblood are, i mean i love Renarin but cmon, szeth no diffed that guy and it took renarin A LOT and then some help to take it Down.
On Adolin: His mother was obviously very loving and caring. Remember, Dalinar didn't really raise him, his mother did! And his mother didn't trash on Dalinar to her children for not being around. She always talked him up. It shouldn't be a surprise he turned out the way he did. If anything, Dalinar being gone all the time was great for Adolin.
Well, considering how good their relationship was when they spent time together, it might not have mattered if they spent time together, as far as Adolin's opinion of him is concerned.
@@KaNoMikoProductions which is still probably thanks to his mother and the fact that alethi society glorifies figures like dalinar, but probably more of the former. i doubt that adolin would love and respect dalinar as much if evi told them the truth of how young dalinar really was (especially with how he acted with evi and renarin)
This is not just about Kaladin's hero complex, wanting to save everyone. That's always been there, as established in The Way of Kings. WoK also emphasizes that Kaladin has learned to manage that by dividing the world into "us" v/s "them". The point is that there's no "us" and "them" anymore when he's forced to watch 2 sets of "us" kill each other, which pushes him over the edge.
That scene never bothered me because he always wanted to save his friends, but in that moment, he saw friends kill friends n that scene, which caused him to freeze up. And witnessing the death of Elhokar by Moash, and giving him the Bridge Four Salute was what pushed him over the edge. I was more forgiving for Kaladin for freezing up like that, but I get why certain people were mad about that scene.
@@karlwilker579 what am I missing, I think I understand that stick is referencing to the Pattern and Shallan incident, but I don't remember who Nightblood is?
@@vihashah5975 Have you finished book 2? If you haven't then don't keep reading my comment. Nightblood is a sentient sword given to Szeth by Nale after he is resurrected. Nightblood is obsessed with killing evil people, and often literally says "Would you like to destroy some evil with me"?
@@vihashah5975 Nightblood is a sword from the novel Warbreaker. It's carried by a several characters from that book before making its way to Roshar. It's deevy
I mean in The Stormlight Archives, it makes sense that we are only following the new radiants, because radiants draw squires, and squires become radiants, so all the radiants are drawn to a single location.
After watching Brando Sando in a recent livestream explain the number of radiants with this line of reasoning it makes sense to me. I believe he also mentioned that spren look to bond with people surrounding the radiants
"You can not have my pain!" Brought genuine tears to my eyes in a way that other moments in the series have only come close to. That whole Act was just beautiful. The audio book actually speeds up at that part because Michael Kramer gets so into it.
Jasnah is such a great character because we’ve gone through all 3 books without realizing how HUGE her power is, and yet before this we get to see how much of a badass she is even before the ending of OB, like when she verbally DESTROYS Amaram in that one earlier OB scene. She will get her own book-BOOK TEN!!
Omg yes! I really want a Jasnah book! I just finished OB yesterday and if this is true I will be so happy! After reading the three books, I feel like I just want more Jasnah and that we have gotten too little of her! I love her so much!
My love for Dalinar actually grew from learning about his past. The man he became after learning what he did, standing up to Odium, channeling Honor. He is an incredible man who stood up to himself, a god, and his lust for battle.
THE lopen is just my favourite character I laughed every time I read (I think it rocks chapter) where the lopen is trying to show off to the new recruits by flying and then lashes himself to the ground but then claims that he is just reassuring the Earth that he will return to her. And then he could have been just the comic release of the book and that would have been fine, but at the end, you see his true value and why he is one of my favourites. He goes up to an injured man who has lost his arm and shows him that can still function he can still do things like tie shoes and give the guy hope.
As someone with DID (multiple personality) I think Sanderson did a fantastic job with Shallan's character. On the point of the love triangle, Shallan going back and forth between Adolin and Kaladin made sense to me because of co-consciousness. Co-Consciousness is when 2 personalities are coming through at the same time, and this happens a lot with Shallan and Veil in Oathbringer. When you are co-con with another personality it can be hard to muddle through which thoughts are your own and which thoughts are theirs. It pretty disorientating but its also fairly common. For me its clear that Kaladin is a trigger for Veil, bringing her to the forefront so she starts to present. Shallan is often surprised when Veil appears with Kaladin around and sometimes she can't even tell its Veil speaking until after the fact. Its also perfectly normal for different personalities to have different sexual attractions - even entirely different orientations. Thats not to say your criticisms aren't valid, to someone without a similar psychiatric condition I imagine it comes across rather confusing, but it really made me feel seen. I cried a couple of times during Oathbringer not because of sad scenes but just because I felt like finally I'd found an author who actually understands the condition and doesn't make it into a horror movie villain or creepy paranormal plot device. Its confusing and a little scary to Shallan but in a really human way. But its also her strength, she can draw on Veil and Radiant when she needs support. Its beautiful. Its amazing. I cried a lot during this book. I hope I could give you a different perspective to consider, but your complaints are still valid. I hope you read this, sorry if it was rambling.
thanks for writing this! I was really curious how accurately it felt to someone with experience with DID. I know Sanderson has generally made a point to consult and accurately portray different conditions, and to me it read as authentic but I wouldn't exactly know - I just knew it didn't stink of ridiculous caricatures I'd seen in other stuff. It's great to hear you think he did such a good job. I didn't catch the point about Kaladin being a trigger too, that's really interesting!
@@DunkanDoughnuts please be careful not to give an impression that DID & Multiple Personality Disorder are the same thing. There is good reason for phasing out the latter term.
@@kneau I only said it because I think it was mentioned in the video as that, and it isn't my responsibility as a system to educate everyone every time it comes up. I know it's not the correct term, that's why it's in brackets
Korey sees that scene with Kaladin freezing like a soldier, which is exactly the way that Kaladin sees it too. Kaladin couldn't control his reaction, but he knows he screwed up. The same sort of thing happens in Shadesmar, when Adolin is hurt and he tries to speak the Fourth Ideal.
Azure is also from Warbreaker (Vivenna). In Shadesmar she tells them she's looking for a sword (Nightblood) and their swordmaster (Zahel/Vasher). About being "redeemable" I assume people mean that the atrocities Dalinar did in the past can't be outweighed by the good he does now? To me he is now a good person, doing the best that he can; also this book goes into how the Thrill is a major part of what drove him to those acts along with pushes from Odium. After he found out he killed Evi he was finally able to break through the Thrill and truly realized what it has been driving him to do.
Patrick Singer I agree but this is kinda why talking about the cosmere is complicated, this is filled with storm light spoilers obviously, but this is kinda spoilers for a book that Brandon marketed as a stand alone
@@p.j.milanta8640 Its pretty subtle but she uses awakening and the main giveaway is that someone (adolin or kaladin don't remember) notices her hair change colour
I’ll have to push back on the ‘rare but it’s all we follow’ point. The entire story is about these people. So of course we’d be following them. I’ll use mistborn as an example. Why would kelsier put together a group of non allomacers to defeat the lord ruler? Great video though and I love your channel
@@epee11c True, but I get the feeling that there will be a lot more depth into their culture and backstory, as well as more main characters that are Parshendi emerging.
Im not the biggest fan of the parshendi as well, but i trust sanderson to develop them enough for me to end up loving them, since there's still a LOT to go
Personally Oathbringer is my fav bc there's so much happening in this book from the beginning just one after another. Also, I agree Jasnah is the coolest Knight Radiant🗡️.
I don't think Adolin sees his father as a 'monster' at any point. Although Dalinar is considered a monster by our pov, he was still considered a great hero in his country, where war is the ultimate pursuit.
i would disagree as it’s shown in his drunk chapters they show how everyone gets out of his way and fears him except for the one homeless person accepts him and gives him a bottle.
If the “love triangle” is over then I 100% agree that Kal shouldn’t have had feelings for Shallan. It was a waste of time and emotion (to me I liked the idea of Kal and Shallan more just because they had more chemistry although I love Adolin) BUT I just don’t think it’s over. I trust Sanderson too much for him to create this unnecessary plot line and end it that abruptly with little to no repercussions. I love both Shallan and Adolin but I don’t think they have the healthiest relationship (not that I’m saying Kal and Shallan would be any better). My theory is that Shallan/Kal/Adolin will be like Navani/Dalinar/Gavliar so perhaps in the second SA arc (books 6-10) both Kal and Shallan would be in a more matured relationship
@@user-jn6qh4lg9u why must that interaction between a male and female character lead to some kind of intimate relationship and not just a deeper, yet platonic, friendship forged through a shared experience? I don't want that love triangle. It only leads to the kind of drama I don't personally find appealing, not to mention how overplayed it is as a trope.
Oathbringer is my favorite for sure. You just have so many instances of where characters are trying to be the best they can, or trying to deal with their past, it just making hard to live with choices. The book was just very intense imo at least from the characters perspective.
So glad your husband brought up Skar and Drehy so early. That is a scene that I feel so many gloss over and is one of my favorite scenes in the book. When they pull back the blanket to reveal Elhokar's son and say "We will protect those who cannot protect themselves", I freaking lose it. If we don't get to see their escape, I will be pissed. I would argue that this book is just as much Cultivation's book as it is Dalinar's. You realize, at the end, how Cultivation played chess with the same piece as Odium and won the round. Odium claims to understand mankind more than the others, but Cultivation shows she may understand us better. As for Jasnah, she also seems to know how to summon her plate (from the scene during the battle). I think she is an Elsecaller of the 4th ideal, at least. Shallan also seems to be able to summon her plate, though she may not realize she did. Remember, there were three versions of Shallan during that fight: Veil, Shallan, and Radiant. Radiant was in full shardplate. At the end of the battle, Jasnah reaches for Shallan, but she dissolves. Radiant is the one who actually speaks and IS Shallan. Zahel was obviously Vasher. I don't know why anyone needed Sanderson to confirm that. All his idioms and phrases, as well as Vivenna confirming their sword master was the one she was after. As for the battle, I think Odium had to withdraw because he accepted the contest of champions. Odium chose Dalinar as his champion and Dalinar was able to fight back and not be taken. This means Dalinar beat him and Odium had to withdraw. At least, that's what I got from it. Either that, or it weakened Odium to lose that and Odium could not let himself be caught in a weakened state by Cultivation. One of my last big questions from the battle scene is Dalinar combining the realms. He calls himself "Unity". I think I read an idea, which I agree with, that Unity may be a shard of the shattered shard of Honor. This gives Dalinar pieces of Honor's power, including the ability to combine the realms. I also want to know what Odium meant when he said, "We killed you". He used the plural during that scene. Is he using the royal "we" or does he have an ally?
Glad someone else appreciates Skar and Drehy like I do! As for the connections to Warbreaker, I'm in desperate need of a re-read. It was the first Sanderson book I read (and it was a couple years ago at this point) so I'm extremely fuzzy on the details of the characters and MOST of what happened. Haha. I knew Azure was Vivenna and in retrospect, I remember her talking about Zahel to Adolin while they were in Shadesmar. I can't remember hardly anything about Vasher's character in Warbreaker, so I didn't pick up on his idioms and what not. There's so much to unpack from what we know in the first 3 books, it hurts my brain. Haha. Sanderson is incredible! -Korey
I just discovered Sanderson last year and he has already become one of my all time favorite authors. Not only is everything he writes hugely creative and entertaining, but he churns out works like a madman! I seriously do not know how he can keep that level of quality while still being so prolific.
He essentially wrote 13 books even before he got published. He basically wrote full time before he got paid to do it. While also juggling full time undergrad, grad school and work. Let that sink in.
Book 2 is my favorite, which I don't think has ever happened before! Spoilers: . . . . . . . Ok, but the part when Kal jumps into the arena? It literally doesn't get better than that.
I always thought of Adolin and Kal as opposites. The whole point is that they come from two completely different backgrounds that are supposed to hate each other, yet they grow to become best friends. Kal has a serious exterior but is a great guy when his walls come down. Adolin uses his charm as a blanket, but bottles up whats actually bothering him. They're opposite.
I just finished OB, like 5 mins ago. And the FIRST THING I did was go to this video!!!! Lol. My loves of OB: •The plot is driven by the characters. •Sanderson goes extra length to ground all actions and plot moments in the established science of the world.
Adolin's just a good guy, I don't think he hung on to much from Dalinar being bad. I think he just recognized that Dalinar was hurting and didn't let it affect him. He'll be dealing with a lot in RoW when he finds out about all of Dalinar's stuff.
omg Merphy i have NEVER heard someone say they think Oath is slower than Kings. Interesting. "this book could be three thousand pages and i wouldn't care" i am Korey lol. I think part of the reason Jasnah gets less page time is because in the back half of the series she's getting a book, and you'll get a heavier focus on her then with flashbacks. so i think her lack of page time now is intentional. Same with Renarin. He's getting a book in the second half of the series as well. Szeth is gonna be book five! Also there is gonna be a Hoid series after stormlight finishes! Also! If you didn't pick up on it. Vasher and Nightblood aren't the only crossover characters in Stormlight. 👀 Loved this discussion! You guys are great together, hope you do another one after Rhythm of War comes out!
What the heck! Last week, when you posted Joe Abercrombie's interview, I was reading "The Blade Itself" and now I am 100 pages into Oathbringer. So, I will see this video after 2 weeks.
You have to remember, in Alethi society, Dalinar wasn't a horrible father to Adolin. He actually treated Adolin very well within the given culture. After the death of his wife, he cetainly was worse, but Adolin was older, and had many other normal people to lean on and be around. So I don't see any reason for Adolin to have negative views of his childhood. It's bad by american standards and culture, but great by Alethi standards and culture.
@@SanguineSidereal Very true, I was just responding to her comments about Adolin being normal and not having issues. It's easily understandable why Renarin isn't normal with how Dalinar practically shunned him for not being a warrior.
The reason I love Dalinar is the same reason I love Jaime Lannister, if you are doing a redemption arc, it should be from someone who truly was a bad person and had no excuses for it, yet chose to change
I understood Adolin’s agreeableness and optimism as him growing up being a people pleaser. That’s how he handles tough situations and how he attains love and acceptance.
I’ve been reading the Stormlight Archive for the first time this year and my reading schedule just happens to line up so perfectly with your book reviews that I was able to watch the review for each Stormlight book right after I finished it and I love that.
Love when you two do reviews together. Your opinions really do balance out each other well. Excited to get started on this series when I finish everything else I have planned on my TBR.
One thing that really struck me as odd is just how casual the whole main cast responds to jasnah being alive. They're like oh she's back, resume... WHAT!?
Yes! I felt this way too! (i just finished the book yesterday!) I especially felt this way with her relationship with Shallan! I was disappointed in there not being any discussion between them! I really just wanted Shallan to snap at her and say that she isn't the same person as she was, and that that was in part Jasnah's fault! I feel that there should have been much more discourse! And IIRC, there wasn't much discourse to her coming back with any of the characters! The only real conclusion to that issue was in the end when Jasnah seemed to notice Shallan's issues when she was lightweaving with Veil and Radiant.
About the love triangle... I really disagree that it was just Veil who had the hots for Kaladin, because we see plenty of times in both Oathbringer and WoR that Shallan herself is thinking about/swooning over Kaladin, so if that was the intention there's a huge clarity issue
S. S. Soto Thank you for pointing this out. Shallan is lying to herself that she doesn’t really like Kaladin, and I don’t like how people treat Veil and Shallan as if they are different characters, they are literally ONE character just different personas. Plus when she got bored, she did a very detailed sketch of Kaladin, something that “Veil” wouldn’t do, just the regular Shallan.
@@henrywayne5724 Yeah, it's more likely that Shallen just pushed that aspect of her personality to Veil. "Shallan" (as a persona) is supposed to be a certain way, and anything that doesn't fit that narrow definition gets supressed or pushed into different personas. Sword training? Impossible, another persona has to do that. Courting a man while also liking another? Not the good Vorin way, get outta here.
I completely agree with you. I think it's also part of a larger trend of Shallan just being kind of a dishonest person. I feel like because of the multiple persona thing people forget a little bit about other aspects of her, but even in the first book her entire plot line was about deception and theft. I think her attributing her feelings for Kaladin to Veil was her lying to Adolin and to herself.
Faultier Exactly. If this love triangle ends with this book, then I’d be disappointed because to me, I don’t feel like it got good closure. I have a feeling the Adolin/Shallan marriage is gonna be messy, to be honest, we kinda saw it in the cover for Rhythm Of War. They did NOT seem like a united couple there, but maybe I’m the one looking too much into it. In no way, am I saying Shallan must end up with Kaladin, all I’m saying is that right now in her current state of mind, she doesn’t even know who she is anymore much less who she likes, but from what I’ve been given by Sanderson so far, Shallan has a much deeper connection with Kaladin. Her and Adolin are cute and all as a couple but...I feel like something is missing. And I don’t buy Kal’s excuse of “she reminded me of Tien”.
@@henrywayne5724 I'm totally with you on that thought. I don't want to get disappointed if ROW doesn't address the impending problems after the marriage and other issues caused by Shallan not admitting her feelings for Kal.
***SPOILERS*** but they're in the video too, so whatever. I recommend going back and Zahel's interlude in WoR. Him being Vasher is pretty clear, especially with hindsight. Renarin bonded a Truthwatcher spren, but it's one that's been corrupted by the Unmade, Sja-anat.
this was an amazing video. I disagreed with you guys on like 80 - 90% of what you said. Oathbringer is the best book for me, because I felt like it had a faster pace. Jasnah is a terrifying force, but I think I still haven't gotten over her murdering those people in the first book so she could teach Shallan a lesson. The Listeners/Singers/Parshendi/Parshmen are amazing, I loved every minute I got with them, because they had such an interesting dilemma. They want freedom (and have every right to it) but the only people offering that freedom are controlled by Odium. I don't think Dalinar has enough of an appreciation for what he did I loved that Kaladin froze and there were consequences (Elokhar dying) because there is no right answer and no way to protect everyone, or necessarily choose who to protect in that moment. The Parshmen have absolutely every right to reclaim their identity and land, but now that the people who stole literally everything from them have been dead for thousands of years, how do you create some semblance of justice? Anyway, I loved hearing your thoughts on this book. thanks for expressing an opinion on the internet.
I agree with everything you said, except for the Jasnah part. The people she killed where assassins that where specifically targeting families going to the opera. They could've just mugged the people they attacked, but they where specifically killing them in cold blood and where also under "protection" from the authorities. Also, it was *heavily* implied that they would rape Jasnah and Shallan if the two weren't so capable (and most certainly did or would do to other women passing through that area). What Jasnah did was ruthless, but ultimately to protect the civilians of Kharbranth.
@@AikenFrost Maybe. I think that it was just that I felt like Jasnah tried to frame it as self defense and not vigilantism. When I read that part it felt like she was putting herself in a dangerous position so that someone would give her an excuse to kill them. But it is a really interesting ethical dilemma, I just came down on the other side than some people, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
@@humanasfarasiknow8634 Totally agree Oathbringer is my favorite because I love Dalinar. He's my favorite character. Jasnah is also my favorite female character in this book beside Syl and Im always intrigued by her. Can't wait for ROW.
I don’t understand being mad at Jasnah for killing murderers.. that part really turned me off of Shallan, I couldn’t believe there was even a question about if it was ok.. it made me start to hate Shallan honestly
It doesn’t feel slower to me tbh. I love oathbringer even though it’s my least favorite of the three(barely). To have this be the worst in a series(as of yet) is an impressive feat by Sanderson. This is superior to most authors’ best
Hey guys, you talked about the finale's battle ending quickly because Odium pulled out quickly, and I think the reason isn't exactly just because Dalinar said no, but because Odium agreed to a contest of Champions against Dalinar, now Dalinar might be able to force him into a conflict that he could lose, and he's also a little anxious about confronting Honor's power that Dalinar was harnessing at the moment. Just my two cents.
because so many characters are dealing with PTSD depression and a whole host of other mental conditions its good to have a character like adolin around. he's more neurotypical and i enjoy him trying his best to help and understand what his friends are going through without really experienceing it himself. at least for me that was one of the perspectives i empathised with the most
As for the final battle, Odium expended a lot of his special forces in the initial stage of the battle trying to ensure the most uneven fight possible. Once the gate was open and "The Thrill" had been contained, all he had left were the remaining fused and an inexperienced army of parshmen. It's possible that, even with reiforcements for Urithiru and all of the Radiants pressent in Thaylen City he could've taken it and ended the war, but its very possible that he could've lost it all as well. Retreating preserved his forces, along with the largest fleet in the world, from destruction.
18:00 - I can understand the judgement on Kal in that moment. Adolin would've handled it better, because literally in the next chapter we learn that one of the first things that a soldier is taught is "Fight now, grieve later" and Adolin does do that, but Kaladin was never properly taught that. He was never a proper soldier (remember Tien's death) he was a really skilled fighter, but not truly soldier the way Adolin is. On top of that Kaladin has through so much psychological trauma, unlike an average soldier, that it was bound to come out at some point. It is the way truly broken people are. The deep wounds that were never healed, just really hurt sometimes and could immobilize you in that way. Duty first always, but Kaladin just isn't there yet. He first needs to become whole.
Yes! The repetitiveness of "attuned to the..." did my head in too! I l-o-v-e BrandySandy's stories, generally speaking, but sometimes the language and word choices really irk me. I feel the same about the rhythm of war - I really do hope we'll turn out to be wrong, but kottammit 1500 pages of endless attuning to this or that would be akin to water torture. If he holds back on that, though, it might just turn out to be absolutely brilliant...
this was great. i love that your copy is all covered in sticky notes and annotations, and then your husband's looks like it's right off the shelf. two different kinds of readers lol
I actually started out finding Shallans perspective the most interesting perspective in Way of Kings, but as the series has continued I like Shallans chapters less and less. I would say that her perspective was my least favorite in Oathbringer. I find her powers super interesting; I think it's all her small quests than I'm just not that interested in. Also, I find it funny that you two really hate the parshendi perspectives, cause I really find them interesting. All the rhythms makes for a really interesting addition to the perspective for me.
I just finished the book last night! I agree on enjoying the parshendi POVs! It was really fun following them, especially through three different perspectives. Kaladins revelation about them not being evil, Moashs arc and Venli from the inside! I really enjoyed the parshendi stuff more than I thought I would! However, I will have to disagree with you about Shallan! I loved her in WoK and I have only grown to love her even more in WoR and OB! I really look forward to seeing her evolve!
I think Rock is no longer the number 3 son, so he is no longer just the cook. Didn't his wife say something about his brothers being gone, so now he's the number 1 son. Therefore the warrior - which he tried to deny. I also have a feeling that he is Horneater royalty.
The number 1 son is actually the main Cook. The warriors are the 4 son and younger, because warriors are less important than cooks (the first and second sons) and artisans (the third son).
23:59 = about repetitive writing... I really don't like how every single characters calls Shallan's attention saying: "Shallan?" It doesn't sounds much but when we're into a 1200 pages book long... damn 😳
The hard part for me with this book was how it added so many POV's that felt unnecessary, then blatantly ignored big character and plot moments, like the Kal/Shallan trip to Thayden and Jasnah's arrival. (You seriously skipped the Jasnah/Shallan reunion?)
I thought that words of radiance dragged way more, though I may be biased. I didn't care for the shalan focus in book 2. I liked her way more in oathbringer.
I really was surprised at how I enjoyed the book because I know that some people didn't like it 🤔😊 And yes oathbringer was much slower than the other two books
Just in case no one else has said this: Brandon Sanderson has posted his POVs for each book: Book 4: Venli/Eshonai Book 5: Szeth Books 6-10 will be Lift, Jasnah, Renarin, and Ash and Taln. You will get a Renarin and a Jasnah book but not until the back half of the series. 😁
I feel like he’s lying about Ash and it’s someone else, or she’s going to become a Dustbringer, because otherwise that’s two light weaver books and no dustbringer books.
Is worth noting on this front that that is an outline not a promise and that Sanderson has changed the outline of who gets flashbacks in which book before. So while that is the current plan we shouldn't take it as guaranteed, especially with the farther out books.
"Books 6-10 will be Lift (...)" Welp. I will literally skip that book if she's still written the same way. Brandon Sanderson is my favorite author of all time, but I like him less than I FUCKING HATE WITH THE FURY OF A THOUSAND SUNS any and all "child-protagonists".
Hey. I'd say that allomancers banding together is logical in mistborn - Kelsier were *searching* for the right ppl after all. Plus main city=more nobility=more allomancers. Same-ish thing can be said about knights radiant - they are ppl that were surviving for a very long time in a very traumatic circumstances. What was it, 10 years of war? 15? Losing friends, loved ones, running into danger with no equipment and pretty much no right to survive? Slowly losing yourself. Plus I always imagined where there's one radiant there'd be more sprens and that snowballs into some places becoming concentrations of them(mostly my head-canon though).
Having just finished reading it for the first time, I loved this book. My only criticism is that the characters feel like they often get lost in the sheer amount of plot thats constantly happening. There are few moments were characters just have a random conversation with each other that has no relation to moving plot forward. This is an issue that I dont see the solution to though, because the book is already so long. If you gave each character beat time to breathe it would be impossible to do even in 3000 pages. The scope is so big and the climax at the end is brilliant but I hope that in book 4 we see a return to focusing on fewer characters and a more detailed description of their individual journey. All that said, it's been great to go into this for the first time completely blind over the last few months.
I loooved this book (just finished it). I hope Sanderson has plans for Adolin and Syl, there’s room ahead. I’d like to see where Venli/Timber end up (Parsh-woman Radiant?). The most jarring to me though was Navani’s barely there reaction to Elhokar’s fate. We got like 50 pages of Kal going through PTSD after the battle of Kholinar, we get 2 lines of Navani dealing. Dumbfounding.
Odium didn’t just retreat because Dalinar told him no, he retreated because his champion died, a ton of his fused died, the army he tried to turn spent half the battle fighting illusions, his thunderclasts got their cheeks CLAPPED, the special gemstone they tried to steal was recovered AND used to imprison one of the most important unmade, and another betraying him, and then they got reinforced. Idk odium was kind of smart to retreat at that point
I am with you that I'm not super looking forward to Book 4 being the deep dive on Venli/Eshonai, but I'm hopeful that Sanderson will be able to turn it around and make me like them like he did with Lift in the Edgedancer novella. Also, we do know which characters are going to be the background focus in future books. Book 5 is Szeth Book 6 is Lift Book 7 is Renarin Book 8 is Shalash Book 9 is Taln Book 10 is Jasnah
I binge read all three in a week on my kindle so I always underestimate the size of these but seeing you guys hold those absolute chonks of books really makes me want to own a physical copy. Personally Words of Radiance was my favourite and Way of Kings was my least favourite - although that might change with a reread because I always find the first book a struggle. I think my favourite thing about this book is Dalinar. His storyline feels the most interesting version of what his character could be. It really paid off all the hints about his wife that he couldn't even picture and how different he used to be and yet I still didn't see it coming. Not to mention it totally casts Navani's reactions to Dalanir and her choosing his brother in a whole new light. I few like a lot of characters like Dalinar have their terrible acts hand waved away essentially but Sanderson is like 'no no, he was a Monster. LOOK' I love so much about this book and I typically don't really enjoy multiple POVs but I love all of these characters so much that it made it a lot easier to enjoy.
Ugh. Getting through this book was like an endurance trial. Yes, there were quite a few things that I liked about it. There were amusing moments and a lot of nostalgia berries and some very interesting scenes. Sadly, though, this book managed to damage all of the characters that i actually liked from the first two books and make them far less likeable. Kaladin is usually whining about all the ones he couldn't save when, there really was nothing he could have done differently... when it wasn't his fault. But locking up because, WAH I can't choose between my countrymen, my king, my brothers from Bridge four and... some guys on the other side that got a raw deal too. He didn't lock up killing the palace guards who were basically under the control of an Unmade. But he folded when faced with a few folks of an enemy army and a different species who came at him with spears. He also allowed Moash to kill the king, like you said, while he was holding his son. Kaladin lost all of my respect there and it was so contrary to his earlier character that I feel like it was the result of idiots like Daniel Greene who complained that Kaladin was 'Too much like Superman' in books 1 and 2 so Sanderson had to cut his nuts on in book 3 to make some fans happy... I used to say that there were three characters I liked in this world... Kaladin, Adalyn and Dalanar... I don't 'like' any of them any more. They are just puppets in the play that I'm reading for the world-building and to finish what I've started. For Pity's sake, 15% of the book was the final battle... Sanderson had to top the travesty he created in book 14 of the Wheel of Time. I listen to the audiobook and it was, literally, like Eight Hours of reading for that battle. It was also about 97% disappointment in the name of Subverting exectations. Sanderson really does more Plodding than Plotting. Gods, Heralds, Unmade... it's worse than a Greek tragedy, lousy with entities that should ahve better things to do than screw with mortals. I knew back in book 1 as soon as they pointed out that a Fabriel had a captured Spren in it that this was going to be the 'key' to winning the war. Then he tells us that the fused can't be killed because the ancient spren is just reborn and... they are going to find a way to capture them in gems to remove them from the war. You watch. There is one more book ready to read and I will slog through it because I already have it. After that, hopefully, I will take a break from this mire, waiting for the next book and I will lose interest as I grow separated from the story. Right now, though, I'm committed to read book 4. I don't have much hope for a better showing... the problems keep getting worse with each new installment.
About Dalinar, there are a few points. Firstly, the Thrill did a lot. It obviously requires a ton of willpower to resist it, especially when it makes you WANT not to, AND when you don't know any better. Secondly, I don't know if I would categorize him as a terrible husband. He wasn't violent with her or anything. He did try to make their marriage work, they were just too diametrically opposed. Even with regards to their children, his worst sin was not being there for them, which isn't the worst thing in the world. For a man as terrible as him, that's not so bad. Third. Evi forgives him for killing her before he opens the Perpendicularity.
I think people just think book one is not as slow because it was a new world in book one, by book 3 we are just expanding on what we know. For me WOR>Wok=Oath. For criticism I would say that Sanderson never gives us a chance to live long enough in the worlds he creates before he goes and starts with the world shattering changes, but the level of imagination the guy throws at these books makes up for that imo. Characters are a strong point as always in this one. Kal is just cool af, Shallan continues to be my favorite female character, right up there with some of the WOT ladies, maybe more so, girl has issues and I love her possibly more self destructive coping mechanism, I love the secret society stuff so ghost bloods are right up my alley. I loved Dalinar's flash backs, guy was a piece of work, found his present story somewhat slow however. Lift is super fun imo. Seth had a good arc up till the end, then he fit in a little too easy imo, but Nightblood is just such a great add to this series. Jasnah, what is Brandon saving her for? Woman knows stuff and he wont let us in her head yet :) Love we finally got in Renarins head, nice to get a clue what's going on with him. Shadesmar is cool, I look forward to more stuff there. Glad the Love Triangle had some resolution, I hope it is done with. Oh another criticism, why make Amaram a monster of the week? gotta build the hate more and more for these guys imo, the bad guys get killed off to easy. The best thing i can say about this book is that I have some ideas where its going, but not really, There are so many players at this point, It can go so many ways. As for the World hoppers, if you haven't read the books they came from they are hard to spot, but you don't need to really know them really, Wit/Hoid is just a guy that's been in all the books in the cosmere or most anyway, beyond the fact that he is up to something, we don't know what.
"A small bottle" was the chapter that hit me harder than anything. Harder than any scene I have ever read or seen. Especially listening to Krammers delivery. When his voice cracks at the "Almighty. I started to hate my son's" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Love this discussion. One thing y'all didn't mention when discussing Dalinar is that Odium had been pushing him to do horrible things the whole time. Dalinar wasn't making the decisions with true free will--he was under the influence of The Thrill, which clearly was a powerful force/spren. Part of what makes his arc so powerful for me, and makes him different from Amaram, is that Dalinar take full responsibility for his actions even though he was being manipulated by Odium. The influence of The Thrill is a key part of the story and makes Dalinar a more sympathetic character than a run-in-the-mill war criminal. He had every right to not take full responsibility for his actions but he does so anyway. I think that's why he hears the female voice that says that he is forgiven.
I definitely didn’t throw my pillow when Corey was talking bad about Kal... I love him so much it’s so hard to hear anyone say anything bad about him lol
Развлечения
"Every book is hard for Kal" I really felt that
Does anyone else feel that Sanderson is taking adolins relationship with his sword as a way for adolin to bring the spren back to life?
That is my feeling anyway.
Not back to life, but something new and interesting. A new bond maybe? Based on forgiveness or something like that
YES! I just finished the book last night and that is exactly what i thought about when I read that story arc! I really think that he is going to "resurrect" Maya in some way!
The last time he summoned her, it only took 7 beats...so...
aaron davis from rhythm of war, yes
I know this book is all about Dalinar, but I'm a Szeth fanboy and I absolutely loved his entrance to the Battle of Thaylen Field, when he swooped down from the sky and literally split a thunderclast in half.
I guess 2023 will be your happy year 😉
Szeth is just a flex in every way 🤣
Reminded me of Thor in Infinity War.
I listened to the audiobook and the narrator does a really good job with him (and the voice of his sword is even more awesome)
MAN that was sooooo epic!!!, one of my favorite scenes (most likely only second to THE scene), and it puts things in to perspective how op szeth/nightblood are, i mean i love Renarin but cmon, szeth no diffed that guy and it took renarin A LOT and then some help to take it Down.
Teft. Knight Radiant.
One of the most powerful moments in the series for me.
Yeah I literally whooped and cheered
Go Teft!
Got me teary eyed as someone who battled with addiction
@@mc9723 same
On Adolin: His mother was obviously very loving and caring. Remember, Dalinar didn't really raise him, his mother did! And his mother didn't trash on Dalinar to her children for not being around. She always talked him up. It shouldn't be a surprise he turned out the way he did. If anything, Dalinar being gone all the time was great for Adolin.
Well, considering how good their relationship was when they spent time together, it might not have mattered if they spent time together, as far as Adolin's opinion of him is concerned.
@@KaNoMikoProductions which is still probably thanks to his mother and the fact that alethi society glorifies figures like dalinar, but probably more of the former. i doubt that adolin would love and respect dalinar as much if evi told them the truth of how young dalinar really was (especially with how he acted with evi and renarin)
Merphy "Now we're going to hit less"
Korey "Fewer"
My inner Stannis smiled.
less...
i just started the video and this is probably be the best part
Me too
My knees are bending at the mention of his name
This is not just about Kaladin's hero complex, wanting to save everyone. That's always been there, as established in The Way of Kings. WoK also emphasizes that Kaladin has learned to manage that by dividing the world into "us" v/s "them". The point is that there's no "us" and "them" anymore when he's forced to watch 2 sets of "us" kill each other, which pushes him over the edge.
Great point!
Idk shit pisses me off, in my view his inaction broke his oath.
you’re right but the point was not written as clearly as it should have been
That scene never bothered me because he always wanted to save his friends, but in that moment, he saw friends kill friends n that scene, which caused him to freeze up. And witnessing the death of Elhokar by Moash, and giving him the Bridge Four Salute was what pushed him over the edge. I was more forgiving for Kaladin for freezing up like that, but I get why certain people were mad about that scene.
Book 4 is going to have two POVs:
1. Nightblood
2. Stick
DESTROY EVIL.
I'm a stick.
The end
"Hey, would you like to destroy some evil!?"
"I am a stick!"
"But you could destroy evil!!"
"I am a stick!!"
@@karlwilker579 what am I missing, I think I understand that stick is referencing to the Pattern and Shallan incident, but I don't remember who Nightblood is?
@@vihashah5975 Have you finished book 2? If you haven't then don't keep reading my comment.
Nightblood is a sentient sword given to Szeth by Nale after he is resurrected. Nightblood is obsessed with killing evil people, and often literally says "Would you like to destroy some evil with me"?
@@vihashah5975 Nightblood is a sword from the novel Warbreaker. It's carried by a several characters from that book before making its way to Roshar. It's deevy
I mean in The Stormlight Archives, it makes sense that we are only following the new radiants, because radiants draw squires, and squires become radiants, so all the radiants are drawn to a single location.
After watching Brando Sando in a recent livestream explain the number of radiants with this line of reasoning it makes sense to me. I believe he also mentioned that spren look to bond with people surrounding the radiants
The way Korey said “OATHBRINGAH!” at the beginning lol
That's how I say it in my head. I mean how else do you day the word Oathbringer without using an old timey British accent?
"You can not have my pain!" Brought genuine tears to my eyes in a way that other moments in the series have only come close to. That whole Act was just beautiful. The audio book actually speeds up at that part because Michael Kramer gets so into it.
A fist pump and a silent “yeah!” was my reaction. My wife was sitting next to me, reading Way of Kings, and I didn’t want to give anything away. 😂
I pity brandon sanderson. He'll never know the joy of reading a stormlight book on release day :(
Damn... You're right...
He had his with The Wheel of Time and Terry Pratchett’s Discworld.
Jasnah is such a great character because we’ve gone through all 3 books without realizing how HUGE her power is, and yet before this we get to see how much of a badass she is even before the ending of OB, like when she verbally DESTROYS Amaram in that one earlier OB scene. She will get her own book-BOOK TEN!!
Nah book 10 is Taln...though she is in the back 5
@@Mwezi828 Coppermind says Book 10 is Jasnah and Book 9 is Taln.
@@UdyKumra oh damn really?
Omg yes! I really want a Jasnah book! I just finished OB yesterday and if this is true I will be so happy! After reading the three books, I feel like I just want more Jasnah and that we have gotten too little of her! I love her so much!
Jasnah is book 10 for now. Szeth was supposed to be book 3 but I think is now going to be book 5. I honestly didn't see Navani coming for book 4.
My love for Dalinar actually grew from learning about his past. The man he became after learning what he did, standing up to Odium, channeling Honor. He is an incredible man who stood up to himself, a god, and his lust for battle.
THE lopen is just my favourite character I laughed every time I read (I think it rocks chapter) where the lopen is trying to show off to the new recruits by flying and then lashes himself to the ground but then claims that he is just reassuring the Earth that he will return to her. And then he could have been just the comic release of the book and that would have been fine, but at the end, you see his true value and why he is one of my favourites. He goes up to an injured man who has lost his arm and shows him that can still function he can still do things like tie shoes and give the guy hope.
Waiting patiently for Radiant The Lopen.
As someone with DID (multiple personality) I think Sanderson did a fantastic job with Shallan's character. On the point of the love triangle, Shallan going back and forth between Adolin and Kaladin made sense to me because of co-consciousness. Co-Consciousness is when 2 personalities are coming through at the same time, and this happens a lot with Shallan and Veil in Oathbringer. When you are co-con with another personality it can be hard to muddle through which thoughts are your own and which thoughts are theirs. It pretty disorientating but its also fairly common. For me its clear that Kaladin is a trigger for Veil, bringing her to the forefront so she starts to present. Shallan is often surprised when Veil appears with Kaladin around and sometimes she can't even tell its Veil speaking until after the fact. Its also perfectly normal for different personalities to have different sexual attractions - even entirely different orientations. Thats not to say your criticisms aren't valid, to someone without a similar psychiatric condition I imagine it comes across rather confusing, but it really made me feel seen. I cried a couple of times during Oathbringer not because of sad scenes but just because I felt like finally I'd found an author who actually understands the condition and doesn't make it into a horror movie villain or creepy paranormal plot device. Its confusing and a little scary to Shallan but in a really human way. But its also her strength, she can draw on Veil and Radiant when she needs support. Its beautiful. Its amazing. I cried a lot during this book. I hope I could give you a different perspective to consider, but your complaints are still valid. I hope you read this, sorry if it was rambling.
thanks for writing this! I was really curious how accurately it felt to someone with experience with DID. I know Sanderson has generally made a point to consult and accurately portray different conditions, and to me it read as authentic but I wouldn't exactly know - I just knew it didn't stink of ridiculous caricatures I'd seen in other stuff. It's great to hear you think he did such a good job. I didn't catch the point about Kaladin being a trigger too, that's really interesting!
@@cameronmoylan you're welcome!
@@DunkanDoughnuts u said he wrote DID well, how did he not write it well? in your exp of course
@@DunkanDoughnuts please be careful not to give an impression that DID & Multiple Personality Disorder are the same thing. There is good reason for phasing out the latter term.
@@kneau I only said it because I think it was mentioned in the video as that, and it isn't my responsibility as a system to educate everyone every time it comes up. I know it's not the correct term, that's why it's in brackets
"Our last review was an hour long"
Me: YAYYYY
"We're not gonna do that today"
Me: Awwwww
Same
"We don't need a book of Hoid" *cough* Dragonsteel *cough*
AND "The Liar of Parthinel". I'm pretty sure we will get it eventually.
Korey sees that scene with Kaladin freezing like a soldier, which is exactly the way that Kaladin sees it too. Kaladin couldn't control his reaction, but he knows he screwed up. The same sort of thing happens in Shadesmar, when Adolin is hurt and he tries to speak the Fourth Ideal.
Azure is also from Warbreaker (Vivenna). In Shadesmar she tells them she's looking for a sword (Nightblood) and their swordmaster (Zahel/Vasher). About being "redeemable" I assume people mean that the atrocities Dalinar did in the past can't be outweighed by the good he does now? To me he is now a good person, doing the best that he can; also this book goes into how the Thrill is a major part of what drove him to those acts along with pushes from Odium. After he found out he killed Evi he was finally able to break through the Thrill and truly realized what it has been driving him to do.
Spoilers much?
Jesse Nelsen bruh this whole video was filled with spoilers
@@patricksinger1029 true
Patrick Singer I agree but this is kinda why talking about the cosmere is complicated, this is filled with storm light spoilers obviously, but this is kinda spoilers for a book that Brandon marketed as a stand alone
@@p.j.milanta8640 Its pretty subtle but she uses awakening and the main giveaway is that someone (adolin or kaladin don't remember) notices her hair change colour
I’ll have to push back on the ‘rare but it’s all we follow’ point. The entire story is about these people. So of course we’d be following them. I’ll use mistborn as an example. Why would kelsier put together a group of non allomacers to defeat the lord ruler? Great video though and I love your channel
We had a non-allomancer on the team. And we have non-radiants on the team
Thanatos elNyx yeah and we focus on those characters
"I could use less time with the Parshendi." Next book is mainly about the Parshendi, lol.
Sanderson said this book has Venli flashbacks, but it's not really as much Venli as say we got Dalinar in Oathbringer or Kaladin in Way of Kings.
@@epee11c True, but I get the feeling that there will be a lot more depth into their culture and backstory, as well as more main characters that are Parshendi emerging.
Im not the biggest fan of the parshendi as well, but i trust sanderson to develop them enough for me to end up loving them, since there's still a LOT to go
To the rhythm of...
unpopular opinion: I would DIG a venli book and would be super duper bored if it's a taravangian book. Taravangain reminds me of professor umbridge.
Personally Oathbringer is my fav bc there's so much happening in this book from the beginning just one after another. Also, I agree Jasnah is the coolest Knight Radiant🗡️.
I don't think Adolin sees his father as a 'monster' at any point. Although Dalinar is considered a monster by our pov, he was still considered a great hero in his country, where war is the ultimate pursuit.
Yes. He went from a great man, to a broken man, to a great man, in Adolin's eyes.
i would disagree as it’s shown in his drunk chapters they show how everyone gets out of his way and fears him except for the one homeless person accepts him and gives him a bottle.
I just woke up from a dream where Merph was my English profesor
God!! I wish I had that dream
If the “love triangle” is over then I 100% agree that Kal shouldn’t have had feelings for Shallan. It was a waste of time and emotion (to me I liked the idea of Kal and Shallan more just because they had more chemistry although I love Adolin)
BUT
I just don’t think it’s over. I trust Sanderson too much for him to create this unnecessary plot line and end it that abruptly with little to no repercussions. I love both Shallan and Adolin but I don’t think they have the healthiest relationship (not that I’m saying Kal and Shallan would be any better). My theory is that Shallan/Kal/Adolin will be like Navani/Dalinar/Gavliar so perhaps in the second SA arc (books 6-10) both Kal and Shallan would be in a more matured relationship
@@user-jn6qh4lg9u why must that interaction between a male and female character lead to some kind of intimate relationship and not just a deeper, yet platonic, friendship forged through a shared experience?
I don't want that love triangle. It only leads to the kind of drama I don't personally find appealing, not to mention how overplayed it is as a trope.
Oathbringer is my favorite for sure. You just have so many instances of where characters are trying to be the best they can, or trying to deal with their past, it just making hard to live with choices. The book was just very intense imo at least from the characters perspective.
Omicrom Yeah, Shallan wasn’t doing a very good job about that. 😂
Part 2 of Oathbringer hanging out with Bridge Four is literally my favorite part of the entire series
So glad your husband brought up Skar and Drehy so early. That is a scene that I feel so many gloss over and is one of my favorite scenes in the book. When they pull back the blanket to reveal Elhokar's son and say "We will protect those who cannot protect themselves", I freaking lose it. If we don't get to see their escape, I will be pissed.
I would argue that this book is just as much Cultivation's book as it is Dalinar's. You realize, at the end, how Cultivation played chess with the same piece as Odium and won the round. Odium claims to understand mankind more than the others, but Cultivation shows she may understand us better.
As for Jasnah, she also seems to know how to summon her plate (from the scene during the battle). I think she is an Elsecaller of the 4th ideal, at least. Shallan also seems to be able to summon her plate, though she may not realize she did. Remember, there were three versions of Shallan during that fight: Veil, Shallan, and Radiant. Radiant was in full shardplate. At the end of the battle, Jasnah reaches for Shallan, but she dissolves. Radiant is the one who actually speaks and IS Shallan.
Zahel was obviously Vasher. I don't know why anyone needed Sanderson to confirm that. All his idioms and phrases, as well as Vivenna confirming their sword master was the one she was after.
As for the battle, I think Odium had to withdraw because he accepted the contest of champions. Odium chose Dalinar as his champion and Dalinar was able to fight back and not be taken. This means Dalinar beat him and Odium had to withdraw. At least, that's what I got from it. Either that, or it weakened Odium to lose that and Odium could not let himself be caught in a weakened state by Cultivation.
One of my last big questions from the battle scene is Dalinar combining the realms. He calls himself "Unity". I think I read an idea, which I agree with, that Unity may be a shard of the shattered shard of Honor. This gives Dalinar pieces of Honor's power, including the ability to combine the realms. I also want to know what Odium meant when he said, "We killed you". He used the plural during that scene. Is he using the royal "we" or does he have an ally?
Glad someone else appreciates Skar and Drehy like I do! As for the connections to Warbreaker, I'm in desperate need of a re-read. It was the first Sanderson book I read (and it was a couple years ago at this point) so I'm extremely fuzzy on the details of the characters and MOST of what happened. Haha. I knew Azure was Vivenna and in retrospect, I remember her talking about Zahel to Adolin while they were in Shadesmar. I can't remember hardly anything about Vasher's character in Warbreaker, so I didn't pick up on his idioms and what not. There's so much to unpack from what we know in the first 3 books, it hurts my brain. Haha. Sanderson is incredible!
-Korey
I like how Adolin took Skar and Drehy out for drinks. Kal got kind of jealous haha Adolin is honestly a good guy.
Wow thanks for this!! Such good details mentioned!
I just discovered Sanderson last year and he has already become one of my all time favorite authors. Not only is everything he writes hugely creative and entertaining, but he churns out works like a madman! I seriously do not know how he can keep that level of quality while still being so prolific.
He essentially wrote 13 books even before he got published. He basically wrote full time before he got paid to do it. While also juggling full time undergrad, grad school and work. Let that sink in.
Book 2 is my favorite, which I don't think has ever happened before!
Spoilers:
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Ok, but the part when Kal jumps into the arena? It literally doesn't get better than that.
And yaa book 2 is the beginning of "Fuck Moash".
"Honor is dead, I'll see what I can do." Epic!
Merphy: I don't care about the love triangle you know but...
I care, a lot
I always thought of Adolin and Kal as opposites. The whole point is that they come from two completely different backgrounds that are supposed to hate each other, yet they grow to become best friends. Kal has a serious exterior but is a great guy when his walls come down. Adolin uses his charm as a blanket, but bottles up whats actually bothering him. They're opposite.
I just finished OB, like 5 mins ago. And the FIRST THING I did was go to this video!!!! Lol.
My loves of OB:
•The plot is driven by the characters.
•Sanderson goes extra length to ground all actions and plot moments in the established science of the world.
I literally did the same thing (except this is the day after as I finished it VERY late at night :D )
Adolin's just a good guy, I don't think he hung on to much from Dalinar being bad. I think he just recognized that Dalinar was hurting and didn't let it affect him. He'll be dealing with a lot in RoW when he finds out about all of Dalinar's stuff.
omg Merphy i have NEVER heard someone say they think Oath is slower than Kings. Interesting. "this book could be three thousand pages and i wouldn't care" i am Korey lol. I think part of the reason Jasnah gets less page time is because in the back half of the series she's getting a book, and you'll get a heavier focus on her then with flashbacks. so i think her lack of page time now is intentional. Same with Renarin. He's getting a book in the second half of the series as well. Szeth is gonna be book five! Also there is gonna be a Hoid series after stormlight finishes! Also! If you didn't pick up on it. Vasher and Nightblood aren't the only crossover characters in Stormlight. 👀 Loved this discussion! You guys are great together, hope you do another one after Rhythm of War comes out!
Agree on the Elhokar moment. It just didn’t seem genuine to me. Khal has been a seasoned soldier for years now, I didn’t buy him locking up.
What the heck! Last week, when you posted Joe Abercrombie's interview, I was reading "The Blade Itself" and now I am 100 pages into Oathbringer. So, I will see this video after 2 weeks.
You have to remember, in Alethi society, Dalinar wasn't a horrible father to Adolin. He actually treated Adolin very well within the given culture. After the death of his wife, he cetainly was worse, but Adolin was older, and had many other normal people to lean on and be around. So I don't see any reason for Adolin to have negative views of his childhood. It's bad by american standards and culture, but great by Alethi standards and culture.
Dalinar wasn't a bad father to Adolin. But he was a bad father to Renarin.
@@SanguineSidereal Very true, I was just responding to her comments about Adolin being normal and not having issues. It's easily understandable why Renarin isn't normal with how Dalinar practically shunned him for not being a warrior.
I would 100% have listened to you two talk
About this book for well over an hour 🤣🤣
The reason I love Dalinar is the same reason I love Jaime Lannister, if you are doing a redemption arc, it should be from someone who truly was a bad person and had no excuses for it, yet chose to change
Definitely
I understood Adolin’s agreeableness and optimism as him growing up being a people pleaser. That’s how he handles tough situations and how he attains love and acceptance.
I’ve been reading the Stormlight Archive for the first time this year and my reading schedule just happens to line up so perfectly with your book reviews that I was able to watch the review for each Stormlight book right after I finished it and I love that.
Love when you two do reviews together. Your opinions really do balance out each other well. Excited to get started on this series when I finish everything else I have planned on my TBR.
I’ve been excitedly waiting for this! I finished my re-read a few weeks back and have been loving the analysis and dynamic from you two.
One thing that really struck me as odd is just how casual the whole main cast responds to jasnah being alive. They're like oh she's back, resume...
WHAT!?
Yes! I felt this way too! (i just finished the book yesterday!) I especially felt this way with her relationship with Shallan! I was disappointed in there not being any discussion between them! I really just wanted Shallan to snap at her and say that she isn't the same person as she was, and that that was in part Jasnah's fault! I feel that there should have been much more discourse! And IIRC, there wasn't much discourse to her coming back with any of the characters! The only real conclusion to that issue was in the end when Jasnah seemed to notice Shallan's issues when she was lightweaving with Veil and Radiant.
It's Jasnah. She's never going to let a little thing like being dead stop her.
@@emiloberg2110 And then at the end when Shallan is like "i'll be your ward and I'll do it right!" And Jasnah is like "fine, sure, bye".
"Idk put Jasnah against Kaladin"
"She wins"
For real, she's already at the 4th ideal, very possibly 5th
Is she at the 4th? I don't remember it. But then, watching this video made me realize I don't remember a lot.
@@fredericofetter yeah in the final battle she's seen with magical armor fading away
Do we know how many ideals the Elsecallers have??
@@doublehelixalchemist8678 It's always five.
@@AikenFrost really? In WoR if I remember pattern said to Shallan lightbringer don't have further ideals
Having a partner who loves the same books that you do...much less loves reading as much as you do is a blessing. 💖
I just finished today and I agree with your husband. This book could have been 3,000 pages and I would have been fine. This book was my favorite yet.
About the love triangle... I really disagree that it was just Veil who had the hots for Kaladin, because we see plenty of times in both Oathbringer and WoR that Shallan herself is thinking about/swooning over Kaladin, so if that was the intention there's a huge clarity issue
S. S. Soto Thank you for pointing this out. Shallan is lying to herself that she doesn’t really like Kaladin, and I don’t like how people treat Veil and Shallan as if they are different characters, they are literally ONE character just different personas. Plus when she got bored, she did a very detailed sketch of Kaladin, something that “Veil” wouldn’t do, just the regular Shallan.
@@henrywayne5724 Yeah, it's more likely that Shallen just pushed that aspect of her personality to Veil. "Shallan" (as a persona) is supposed to be a certain way, and anything that doesn't fit that narrow definition gets supressed or pushed into different personas. Sword training? Impossible, another persona has to do that. Courting a man while also liking another? Not the good Vorin way, get outta here.
I completely agree with you. I think it's also part of a larger trend of Shallan just being kind of a dishonest person. I feel like because of the multiple persona thing people forget a little bit about other aspects of her, but even in the first book her entire plot line was about deception and theft. I think her attributing her feelings for Kaladin to Veil was her lying to Adolin and to herself.
Faultier Exactly. If this love triangle ends with this book, then I’d be disappointed because to me, I don’t feel like it got good closure. I have a feeling the Adolin/Shallan marriage is gonna be messy, to be honest, we kinda saw it in the cover for Rhythm Of War. They did NOT seem like a united couple there, but maybe I’m the one looking too much into it. In no way, am I saying Shallan must end up with Kaladin, all I’m saying is that right now in her current state of mind, she doesn’t even know who she is anymore much less who she likes, but from what I’ve been given by Sanderson so far, Shallan has a much deeper connection with Kaladin. Her and Adolin are cute and all as a couple but...I feel like something is missing. And I don’t buy Kal’s excuse of “she reminded me of Tien”.
@@henrywayne5724 I'm totally with you on that thought. I don't want to get disappointed if ROW doesn't address the impending problems after the marriage and other issues caused by Shallan not admitting her feelings for Kal.
I am starting Oathbringer TODAY!!! I loved WoR way more than WoK, so I can’t wait to see what book three has in store ❤️
***SPOILERS*** but they're in the video too, so whatever.
I recommend going back and Zahel's interlude in WoR.
Him being Vasher is pretty clear, especially with hindsight.
Renarin bonded a Truthwatcher spren, but it's one that's been corrupted by the Unmade, Sja-anat.
this was an amazing video. I disagreed with you guys on like 80 - 90% of what you said.
Oathbringer is the best book for me, because I felt like it had a faster pace.
Jasnah is a terrifying force, but I think I still haven't gotten over her murdering those people in the first book so she could teach Shallan a lesson.
The Listeners/Singers/Parshendi/Parshmen are amazing, I loved every minute I got with them, because they had such an interesting dilemma. They want freedom (and have every right to it) but the only people offering that freedom are controlled by Odium.
I don't think Dalinar has enough of an appreciation for what he did
I loved that Kaladin froze and there were consequences (Elokhar dying) because there is no right answer and no way to protect everyone, or necessarily choose who to protect in that moment. The Parshmen have absolutely every right to reclaim their identity and land, but now that the people who stole literally everything from them have been dead for thousands of years, how do you create some semblance of justice?
Anyway, I loved hearing your thoughts on this book. thanks for expressing an opinion on the internet.
I agree with everything you said, except for the Jasnah part.
The people she killed where assassins that where specifically targeting families going to the opera. They could've just mugged the people they attacked, but they where specifically killing them in cold blood and where also under "protection" from the authorities.
Also, it was *heavily* implied that they would rape Jasnah and Shallan if the two weren't so capable (and most certainly did or would do to other women passing through that area).
What Jasnah did was ruthless, but ultimately to protect the civilians of Kharbranth.
@@AikenFrost Maybe. I think that it was just that I felt like Jasnah tried to frame it as self defense and not vigilantism. When I read that part it felt like she was putting herself in a dangerous position so that someone would give her an excuse to kill them.
But it is a really interesting ethical dilemma, I just came down on the other side than some people, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
@@humanasfarasiknow8634 Totally agree Oathbringer is my favorite because I love Dalinar. He's my favorite character. Jasnah is also my favorite female character in this book beside Syl and Im always intrigued by her. Can't wait for ROW.
I don’t understand being mad at Jasnah for killing murderers.. that part really turned me off of Shallan, I couldn’t believe there was even a question about if it was ok.. it made me start to hate Shallan honestly
||I will take responsibility for what I have done,” Dalinar whispered. “If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.”||
So I finished this book roughly a half an hour ago and now I have a void in my heart that will not be filled for approximately three weeks
It doesn’t feel slower to me tbh. I love oathbringer even though it’s my least favorite of the three(barely). To have this be the worst in a series(as of yet) is an impressive feat by Sanderson. This is superior to most authors’ best
If Dalinar isnt redeemable than neither is Uncle Iroh, and I refuse to believe either. Love yalls review!
Hey guys, you talked about the finale's battle ending quickly because Odium pulled out quickly, and I think the reason isn't exactly just because Dalinar said no, but because Odium agreed to a contest of Champions against Dalinar, now Dalinar might be able to force him into a conflict that he could lose, and he's also a little anxious about confronting Honor's power that Dalinar was harnessing at the moment. Just my two cents.
because so many characters are dealing with PTSD depression and a whole host of other mental conditions its good to have a character like adolin around. he's more neurotypical and i enjoy him trying his best to help and understand what his friends are going through without really experienceing it himself.
at least for me that was one of the perspectives i empathised with the most
As for the final battle, Odium expended a lot of his special forces in the initial stage of the battle trying to ensure the most uneven fight possible. Once the gate was open and "The Thrill" had been contained, all he had left were the remaining fused and an inexperienced army of parshmen. It's possible that, even with reiforcements for Urithiru and all of the Radiants pressent in Thaylen City he could've taken it and ended the war, but its very possible that he could've lost it all as well. Retreating preserved his forces, along with the largest fleet in the world, from destruction.
*mild Rhythm of War spoilers*
Oathbringer: *is hard on Kaladin*
Rhythm of War: hold my drink
Oh man, I was hoping for another hour-long review from you guys!! :-)
I am so excited for Rhythm of War next month!
18:00 - I can understand the judgement on Kal in that moment. Adolin would've handled it better, because literally in the next chapter we learn that one of the first things that a soldier is taught is "Fight now, grieve later" and Adolin does do that, but Kaladin was never properly taught that. He was never a proper soldier (remember Tien's death) he was a really skilled fighter, but not truly soldier the way Adolin is.
On top of that Kaladin has through so much psychological trauma, unlike an average soldier, that it was bound to come out at some point. It is the way truly broken people are. The deep wounds that were never healed, just really hurt sometimes and could immobilize you in that way.
Duty first always, but Kaladin just isn't there yet. He first needs to become whole.
Yes! The repetitiveness of "attuned to the..." did my head in too! I l-o-v-e BrandySandy's stories, generally speaking, but sometimes the language and word choices really irk me. I feel the same about the rhythm of war - I really do hope we'll turn out to be wrong, but kottammit 1500 pages of endless attuning to this or that would be akin to water torture. If he holds back on that, though, it might just turn out to be absolutely brilliant...
My favorite moments (that I believe are from oathbringer) are when Teft says his ideal and when Shallan talks to Wit at the city
This video has great timing. I just finished Oathbringer yesterday.
Mind readers! I was just looking for this the other day and didn't see a lot on content on it. Thank you!
this was great. i love that your copy is all covered in sticky notes and annotations, and then your husband's looks like it's right off the shelf. two different kinds of readers lol
That's because mine was a "prop". Haha! Like a true Alethi man, I don't read books, I have them read to me in the form of audiobooks. :)
-Korey
I actually started out finding Shallans perspective the most interesting perspective in Way of Kings, but as the series has continued I like Shallans chapters less and less. I would say that her perspective was my least favorite in Oathbringer. I find her powers super interesting; I think it's all her small quests than I'm just not that interested in.
Also, I find it funny that you two really hate the parshendi perspectives, cause I really find them interesting. All the rhythms makes for a really interesting addition to the perspective for me.
I just finished the book last night! I agree on enjoying the parshendi POVs! It was really fun following them, especially through three different perspectives. Kaladins revelation about them not being evil, Moashs arc and Venli from the inside! I really enjoyed the parshendi stuff more than I thought I would! However, I will have to disagree with you about Shallan! I loved her in WoK and I have only grown to love her even more in WoR and OB! I really look forward to seeing her evolve!
One of my favourite scenes was Navani POV get a lecture from Jasnah
I’m loving these!
I love listening to you two!
Me and Corey feel the same way it could be 3000 pages and it would be ok with me. I want Adolin to revive Maya so bad.
I think Rock is no longer the number 3 son, so he is no longer just the cook. Didn't his wife say something about his brothers being gone, so now he's the number 1 son. Therefore the warrior - which he tried to deny. I also have a feeling that he is Horneater royalty.
The number 1 son is actually the main Cook. The warriors are the 4 son and younger, because warriors are less important than cooks (the first and second sons) and artisans (the third son).
Other way around. First son is the cook, the following are warriors. Rock became the cook because his older siblings got killed.
23:59 = about repetitive writing... I really don't like how every single characters calls Shallan's attention saying:
"Shallan?"
It doesn't sounds much but when we're into a 1200 pages book long... damn 😳
The hard part for me with this book was how it added so many POV's that felt unnecessary, then blatantly ignored big character and plot moments, like the Kal/Shallan trip to Thayden and Jasnah's arrival. (You seriously skipped the Jasnah/Shallan reunion?)
I thought that words of radiance dragged way more, though I may be biased. I didn't care for the shalan focus in book 2. I liked her way more in oathbringer.
Im excited for THE Lopen and his spren! Seems like a very fun duo!
I really was surprised at how I enjoyed the book because I know that some people didn't like it 🤔😊
And yes oathbringer was much slower than the other two books
Just in case no one else has said this: Brandon Sanderson has posted his POVs for each book:
Book 4: Venli/Eshonai
Book 5: Szeth
Books 6-10 will be Lift, Jasnah, Renarin, and Ash and Taln.
You will get a Renarin and a Jasnah book but not until the back half of the series. 😁
I feel like he’s lying about Ash and it’s someone else, or she’s going to become a Dustbringer, because otherwise that’s two light weaver books and no dustbringer books.
Is worth noting on this front that that is an outline not a promise and that Sanderson has changed the outline of who gets flashbacks in which book before. So while that is the current plan we shouldn't take it as guaranteed, especially with the farther out books.
Wait, I thought Jasnah was book 10
"Books 6-10 will be Lift (...)"
Welp. I will literally skip that book if she's still written the same way.
Brandon Sanderson is my favorite author of all time, but I like him less than I FUCKING HATE WITH THE FURY OF A THOUSAND SUNS any and all "child-protagonists".
That's almost spoilery, as it almost ascertain that they'll be alive althroughout now
Hey. I'd say that allomancers banding together is logical in mistborn - Kelsier were *searching* for the right ppl after all. Plus main city=more nobility=more allomancers. Same-ish thing can be said about knights radiant - they are ppl that were surviving for a very long time in a very traumatic circumstances. What was it, 10 years of war? 15? Losing friends, loved ones, running into danger with no equipment and pretty much no right to survive? Slowly losing yourself. Plus I always imagined where there's one radiant there'd be more sprens and that snowballs into some places becoming concentrations of them(mostly my head-canon though).
Having just finished reading it for the first time, I loved this book. My only criticism is that the characters feel like they often get lost in the sheer amount of plot thats constantly happening. There are few moments were characters just have a random conversation with each other that has no relation to moving plot forward. This is an issue that I dont see the solution to though, because the book is already so long. If you gave each character beat time to breathe it would be impossible to do even in 3000 pages. The scope is so big and the climax at the end is brilliant but I hope that in book 4 we see a return to focusing on fewer characters and a more detailed description of their individual journey. All that said, it's been great to go into this for the first time completely blind over the last few months.
I loooved this book (just finished it). I hope Sanderson has plans for Adolin and Syl, there’s room ahead. I’d like to see where Venli/Timber end up (Parsh-woman Radiant?). The most jarring to me though was Navani’s barely there reaction to Elhokar’s fate. We got like 50 pages of Kal going through PTSD after the battle of Kholinar, we get 2 lines of Navani dealing. Dumbfounding.
Book 4 will be out soon! I forget the title at the moment but I just looked it up for a customer last night. (I work in a bookstore)
Odium didn’t just retreat because Dalinar told him no, he retreated because his champion died, a ton of his fused died, the army he tried to turn spent half the battle fighting illusions, his thunderclasts got their cheeks CLAPPED, the special gemstone they tried to steal was recovered AND used to imprison one of the most important unmade, and another betraying him, and then they got reinforced. Idk odium was kind of smart to retreat at that point
I am with you that I'm not super looking forward to Book 4 being the deep dive on Venli/Eshonai, but I'm hopeful that Sanderson will be able to turn it around and make me like them like he did with Lift in the Edgedancer novella.
Also, we do know which characters are going to be the background focus in future books.
Book 5 is Szeth
Book 6 is Lift
Book 7 is Renarin
Book 8 is Shalash
Book 9 is Taln
Book 10 is Jasnah
I binge read all three in a week on my kindle so I always underestimate the size of these but seeing you guys hold those absolute chonks of books really makes me want to own a physical copy.
Personally Words of Radiance was my favourite and Way of Kings was my least favourite - although that might change with a reread because I always find the first book a struggle.
I think my favourite thing about this book is Dalinar. His storyline feels the most interesting version of what his character could be. It really paid off all the hints about his wife that he couldn't even picture and how different he used to be and yet I still didn't see it coming.
Not to mention it totally casts Navani's reactions to Dalanir and her choosing his brother in a whole new light.
I few like a lot of characters like Dalinar have their terrible acts hand waved away essentially but Sanderson is like 'no no, he was a Monster. LOOK'
I love so much about this book and I typically don't really enjoy multiple POVs but I love all of these characters so much that it made it a lot easier to enjoy.
0:03 that British accent though XD
Ugh. Getting through this book was like an endurance trial. Yes, there were quite a few things that I liked about it. There were amusing moments and a lot of nostalgia berries and some very interesting scenes. Sadly, though, this book managed to damage all of the characters that i actually liked from the first two books and make them far less likeable. Kaladin is usually whining about all the ones he couldn't save when, there really was nothing he could have done differently... when it wasn't his fault. But locking up because, WAH I can't choose between my countrymen, my king, my brothers from Bridge four and... some guys on the other side that got a raw deal too. He didn't lock up killing the palace guards who were basically under the control of an Unmade. But he folded when faced with a few folks of an enemy army and a different species who came at him with spears. He also allowed Moash to kill the king, like you said, while he was holding his son. Kaladin lost all of my respect there and it was so contrary to his earlier character that I feel like it was the result of idiots like Daniel Greene who complained that Kaladin was 'Too much like Superman' in books 1 and 2 so Sanderson had to cut his nuts on in book 3 to make some fans happy...
I used to say that there were three characters I liked in this world... Kaladin, Adalyn and Dalanar... I don't 'like' any of them any more. They are just puppets in the play that I'm reading for the world-building and to finish what I've started. For Pity's sake, 15% of the book was the final battle... Sanderson had to top the travesty he created in book 14 of the Wheel of Time. I listen to the audiobook and it was, literally, like Eight Hours of reading for that battle. It was also about 97% disappointment in the name of Subverting exectations. Sanderson really does more Plodding than Plotting.
Gods, Heralds, Unmade... it's worse than a Greek tragedy, lousy with entities that should ahve better things to do than screw with mortals. I knew back in book 1 as soon as they pointed out that a Fabriel had a captured Spren in it that this was going to be the 'key' to winning the war. Then he tells us that the fused can't be killed because the ancient spren is just reborn and... they are going to find a way to capture them in gems to remove them from the war. You watch.
There is one more book ready to read and I will slog through it because I already have it. After that, hopefully, I will take a break from this mire, waiting for the next book and I will lose interest as I grow separated from the story. Right now, though, I'm committed to read book 4. I don't have much hope for a better showing... the problems keep getting worse with each new installment.
About Dalinar, there are a few points. Firstly, the Thrill did a lot. It obviously requires a ton of willpower to resist it, especially when it makes you WANT not to, AND when you don't know any better. Secondly, I don't know if I would categorize him as a terrible husband. He wasn't violent with her or anything. He did try to make their marriage work, they were just too diametrically opposed. Even with regards to their children, his worst sin was not being there for them, which isn't the worst thing in the world. For a man as terrible as him, that's not so bad. Third. Evi forgives him for killing her before he opens the Perpendicularity.
Can’t wait to watch this once I finish the book in a few days 😫
I think people just think book one is not as slow because it was a new world in book one, by book 3 we are just expanding on what we know. For me WOR>Wok=Oath. For criticism I would say that Sanderson never gives us a chance to live long enough in the worlds he creates before he goes and starts with the world shattering changes, but the level of imagination the guy throws at these books makes up for that imo. Characters are a strong point as always in this one. Kal is just cool af, Shallan continues to be my favorite female character, right up there with some of the WOT ladies, maybe more so, girl has issues and I love her possibly more self destructive coping mechanism, I love the secret society stuff so ghost bloods are right up my alley. I loved Dalinar's flash backs, guy was a piece of work, found his present story somewhat slow however. Lift is super fun imo. Seth had a good arc up till the end, then he fit in a little too easy imo, but Nightblood is just such a great add to this series. Jasnah, what is Brandon saving her for? Woman knows stuff and he wont let us in her head yet :) Love we finally got in Renarins head, nice to get a clue what's going on with him.
Shadesmar is cool, I look forward to more stuff there. Glad the Love Triangle had some resolution, I hope it is done with. Oh another criticism, why make Amaram a monster of the week? gotta build the hate more and more for these guys imo, the bad guys get killed off to easy. The best thing i can say about this book is that I have some ideas where its going, but not really, There are so many players at this point, It can go so many ways. As for the World hoppers, if you haven't read the books they came from they are hard to spot, but you don't need to really know them really, Wit/Hoid is just a guy that's been in all the books in the cosmere or most anyway, beyond the fact that he is up to something, we don't know what.
"A small bottle" was the chapter that hit me harder than anything. Harder than any scene I have ever read or seen. Especially listening to Krammers delivery. When his voice cracks at the "Almighty. I started to hate my son's" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Finished it this morning and ive seen a lot of people rank this below WoR and WoK but honestly its my favorite so far and its not even close
Love this discussion. One thing y'all didn't mention when discussing Dalinar is that Odium had been pushing him to do horrible things the whole time. Dalinar wasn't making the decisions with true free will--he was under the influence of The Thrill, which clearly was a powerful force/spren. Part of what makes his arc so powerful for me, and makes him different from Amaram, is that Dalinar take full responsibility for his actions even though he was being manipulated by Odium. The influence of The Thrill is a key part of the story and makes Dalinar a more sympathetic character than a run-in-the-mill war criminal. He had every right to not take full responsibility for his actions but he does so anyway. I think that's why he hears the female voice that says that he is forgiven.
Brandon Sanderson is one of ALL TIME FAVOURITES. I absolutely love the wheel of time series though!!!
I also need more Jasnah in my life!!
I definitely didn’t throw my pillow when Corey was talking bad about Kal...
I love him so much it’s so hard to hear anyone say anything bad about him lol
I could listen to Korey's accent all day. He's got the kind of southern accent that just feels like lemonade on the porch. I love it.