Technically the Cronus 3M is slightly better than the Wolverine 6M but these are marginal improvements. The Cronus came out with the TRO:3067 in 2002 and by that time the Wolverine was already an established and beloved Mech. The popularity of Mechs has a lot do with their lore and the personal experience the players had. Building the most optimized Mech does not give you the most popular Mech - otherwise we would all play with the Rifleman IIC.
I first discovered this in megamek. I tend to play in the post 3028, pre 3049 in mekHQ, and it’s a perfect oddball mech to throw in that wonderous era.
@@TheManyVoicesVA what’s fun is getting mechs like the vindicator 1 SIC, or playing with the pre CI wolfhound. There’s a occasional gem from that era that makes people go “what”. A example I just learned was of the rattlesnake, a fedcom jenner.
As a mech designer I find the wolverine 6M agreeable in taste but OFFENSIVE to my sensibilities. Ammo in a side torso for a weapon in the other side torso? And the primary weapon is in the arm of THE SIDE THAT EXPLODES? Dear god, whyyyyyyy? As you point out, loss of either side torso takes the weapon system offline: pure anathema to the core design principle that mechs should degrade GRACEFULLY.
100% I hate that about the Wolvie. The Hunchback has the same issue it is really annoying. Like it isnt hard people. The ammo goes in the torso with the weapon. The griffin has the same issue but in a different way. Both weapons are on 1 side, so you lose that side torso and ur basically dead.
@@sedevri864 It's a bit of an odd duck. It can fire the large laser and lrms together, and swaps to medium lasers up close. It cant really comfortably push heat though. 20 heat is alot on 14 sinks, especially if it is on the move. Not too bad though. I would say its not quite as good as the better introtech wolverines, but it's definitely pretty good. Idk if Id want it over a Dervish or not. Similar loadouts but the dervish has better armor, and leans way more into crit seeking with the SRMs.
@@TheManyVoicesVA oh it isn't truly efficient by any means. But it's a solid combatant, tough, CHEAP, can fight at all ranges and is one of the simplest to upgrade. Honestly it's a crime that the LH3 variant didn't come with double heat sinks.
Honestly you won me as soon as you showed the internals. Time to get someone to make an STL of this 'mech. The other varaints I jive a little less with. The -TD9 though looks like it would be fun for someone who wants to go around stabbing someone. Wonder why the lasers aren't in the torsos. Not that I am a mega min maxer but the other models put their smaller lasers there.
@@mattmelton7389 I agree with the 1st statement but disagree with the 2nd. The Cronus-3M and Wolvie are both *very* hard to kill. They can easily stand up to 2-3 turns of fire from and Awesome as long as you dont get unlucky and get like LL 3 times or something. The Cronus is good because its a zombie. It can lose both arms and 1 torso and still have a couple decent weapons to shoot you at close range. I played a couple Kintaros in a tournament recently and they both just... lived forever lol.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Shame the mech is so hideous. I want to 3d model a fan redesign of it and i feel like it's what i'll do when i have time off work and finish the Thorn i've been stuck on for a while
If the pilot has fist fire I know it works when punching would it work with a claw attack too? If so and the claw hits it's a -5 to hit with the VSPL and it hits where the claw hit every time.
I've had the Cronus mini since it first came out. The Cronus gets hosed by it's official 1st year of construction. Since it came out in 3031 by the time you can field it your so close to lost tech resurfacing that it gets lost in the shuffle. IMHO back when we had the Unseen issues messing up the game it 's construction date should have been retconned to an earlier date to fill a HUGE hole left open when we lost the OG mediums.
Eww, what the hell is that?! 😂 I do like the WVR-6M, but I almost always go with the -6K instead. I know it can't jump, but max armor on a 55-tonner is ridiculous.
The 6K is a great mech as well. I always love any mech with a head laser! Lol. I recently ran 2 Kintaro-21s in a tournament and I can confirm 55 tonners with max armor are just a pain in the butt to kill.
Just like many of the "This mech existed during the Star League" additions from the later books, im not a fan of historical ret-cons. If I'm playing introtech, i better be seeing the old boys club, not a downgraded Pillager.
It isn't XD that's why it never gets used. Its also FWL only basically, or periphery in later eras. I wish it was 3025. No reason it couldnt be hahaha.
Mech bias is showing, one does not compare apples to oranges. 'The Wolverine firing all of it's weapons gains 4 heat, plus movement. The Cronus can fire all of it's short range weapons....' all v some, of course the Wolverine is going to look worse when you bias a comparison.
Im just comparing their weapon loadouts. 3 medium lasers and an SRM4 is almost as much damage as 2 medlas and a LL and SRM6, but causes no heat issues. The wolverine has less alpha strike damage, but the Cronus only wants to alpha if it is walking, whereas the Wolvie can do it while running. It can even juml and alpha but will go to 9 heat, which wont slow it down too much at least... If the Cronus tries that it's going to 11 heat, and basically has to jump again unless it stands still in cover or something, cuz 3/5 aint gonna keep it safe lol. Cronus is better IMO, of course I'm biased towards it lol. But I wouldnt call my comparison biased, it's pretty fair. The only thing I didnt mention is that the wolvie has crit padded the legs with 1 HS each, but that slight increase in maintaining mobility isnt as good as 20 armor on the legs.
@@TheManyVoicesVA In an alpha output comparison, Cronus does beat the Wolverine, ngl. However, the Wolverine has a weapons loadout that allows it to better tailor the heat generation to maximize it to +4 heat (no penalties yet).
@@anotherdadjoke That's only if standing still tho. In my experience cavalry units rarely stand still. That's why I like the Cronus better. It can still fire say an SRM4, 1 medium laser, and a large laser while on the move and at like range 8 or something. It will only pick up movement heat with that, then once it closes it can use short range weapons while running with no penalty. Eventually it will get a turn where it can cool off, and reset the cycle.
The Cronus is better than the Wolverine... Fuck, you're serious? It's a frankenmech made out of scraps so broken they were just thrown away. If you look at it on paper, maybe it's the equal of some Wolverine variant- having only played the game for about 35 years, I might be too new to think of one, though. Sure, the numbers in the book are close, but the lore splits the difference. And "post 3SW salvage built in the garage by hillbillies in their spare time out of trash" isn't great lore.
This channel focuses mainly on optimization and competitive play. It is extremely similar to the Wolvie 6M. Like the weapons loadout is just swapping an SRM6 to a 4 and adding a medium laser. But it has a better weapon spread, with more balanced firepower on either side, and the ammo is better crit padded. The narrative doesnt matter much once you get onto the table lol. Raw stats and numbers are what win battles, along with skill and luck. The Wolverine is an interesting design in lore and is a staple for a reason. But the AC5 versions are actually kind of trash, once they stick the large laser in, it's vastly improved. I also dont think Id want to ride in one as a mechwarrior. It has a cramped cockpit and is meant to be a command mech for cavalry lances, which makes it a big target.
Technically the Cronus 3M is slightly better than the Wolverine 6M but these are marginal improvements.
The Cronus came out with the TRO:3067 in 2002 and by that time the Wolverine was already an established and beloved Mech.
The popularity of Mechs has a lot do with their lore and the personal experience the players had.
Building the most optimized Mech does not give you the most popular Mech - otherwise we would all play with the Rifleman IIC.
I mean the Rifleman IIC definitely sees play if someone likes cheese lol. 🧀
I first discovered this in megamek. I tend to play in the post 3028, pre 3049 in mekHQ, and it’s a perfect oddball mech to throw in that wonderous era.
Love that! Dont have the OP clantech, but u can work your way up to a company with DHS and pulse lasers, ERPPCs, etc.
@@TheManyVoicesVA what’s fun is getting mechs like the vindicator 1 SIC, or playing with the pre CI wolfhound. There’s a occasional gem from that era that makes people go “what”. A example I just learned was of the rattlesnake, a fedcom jenner.
@@baker90338 Rattlesnake is a decent little backstabber.
As a mech designer I find the wolverine 6M agreeable in taste but OFFENSIVE to my sensibilities. Ammo in a side torso for a weapon in the other side torso? And the primary weapon is in the arm of THE SIDE THAT EXPLODES? Dear god, whyyyyyyy?
As you point out, loss of either side torso takes the weapon system offline: pure anathema to the core design principle that mechs should degrade GRACEFULLY.
100% I hate that about the Wolvie. The Hunchback has the same issue it is really annoying. Like it isnt hard people. The ammo goes in the torso with the weapon.
The griffin has the same issue but in a different way. Both weapons are on 1 side, so you lose that side torso and ur basically dead.
>3031
>2008 metal model only
Sad
Ya the limited availability kills it haha. So sad.
3D printer goes BRRRR
I enjoy all of The Many Voices videos never time when I want it
Spiritwolf my homie
4:33
"..shots"
That was a pretty cool effect. It's like you simulated the static of the ppc. I likey.
@@tomarmadiyer2698 lol do u mean the music? I dont hear static
Another great Introtech mech that doesn't get enough love is the Lineholder.
@@sedevri864 It's a bit of an odd duck. It can fire the large laser and lrms together, and swaps to medium lasers up close. It cant really comfortably push heat though. 20 heat is alot on 14 sinks, especially if it is on the move. Not too bad though. I would say its not quite as good as the better introtech wolverines, but it's definitely pretty good.
Idk if Id want it over a Dervish or not. Similar loadouts but the dervish has better armor, and leans way more into crit seeking with the SRMs.
@@TheManyVoicesVA oh it isn't truly efficient by any means. But it's a solid combatant, tough, CHEAP, can fight at all ranges and is one of the simplest to upgrade. Honestly it's a crime that the LH3 variant didn't come with double heat sinks.
@@sedevri864 ya true. I havent used it but Ive been tempted a few times. Definitely a pretty cool design.
I play introtech upto 3030 , just so Wolfhounds , Ravens , Cataphrachts , 3S Banshees are a thing
In early 3030s u start to see DHS and stuff pop up as well, they are rare tho.
If you play a campaign it is a awesome treat
Honestly you won me as soon as you showed the internals.
Time to get someone to make an STL of this 'mech. The other varaints I jive a little less with. The -TD9 though looks like it would be fun for someone who wants to go around stabbing someone.
Wonder why the lasers aren't in the torsos. Not that I am a mega min maxer but the other models put their smaller lasers there.
Ya I honestly have no idea haha. They should definitely be in the torsos. Like what is in the big missile rack on top now? 1 laser?
With faster mechs using the arms gives more arc. Also you're unlikely to pull a useful zombie strat at 55 tons. Fits the intended use.
@@mattmelton7389 I agree with the 1st statement but disagree with the 2nd. The Cronus-3M and Wolvie are both *very* hard to kill. They can easily stand up to 2-3 turns of fire from and Awesome as long as you dont get unlucky and get like LL 3 times or something. The Cronus is good because its a zombie. It can lose both arms and 1 torso and still have a couple decent weapons to shoot you at close range.
I played a couple Kintaros in a tournament recently and they both just... lived forever lol.
Honestly, i had forgotten there is an Introtech Cronus variant.
I discovered it recently. Its a real gem haha
@@TheManyVoicesVA Shame the mech is so hideous.
I want to 3d model a fan redesign of it and i feel like it's what i'll do when i have time off work and finish the Thorn i've been stuck on for a while
@@Stormeris id love to see that! I actually think its decent looking. The offset cockpit is great.
The mech she tells you not to worry about
Hahahaha 100%. Premium cavalry at a premium cost XD
If the pilot has fist fire I know it works when punching would it work with a claw attack too? If so and the claw hits it's a -5 to hit with the VSPL and it hits where the claw hit every time.
Holy crab claws Batman! That is an insane combo... very nice.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I don't know for sure if claws and fistfire stack like punch and fistfire,
I've had the Cronus mini since it first came out.
The Cronus gets hosed by it's official 1st year of construction.
Since it came out in 3031 by the time you can field it your so close
to lost tech resurfacing that it gets lost in the shuffle.
IMHO back when we had the Unseen issues messing up the game
it 's construction date should have been retconned to an earlier date
to fill a HUGE hole left open when we lost the OG mediums.
Agreed. There is no reason this couldnt have been produced earlier than 3031.
Eww, what the hell is that?!
😂
I do like the WVR-6M, but I almost always go with the -6K instead. I know it can't jump, but max armor on a 55-tonner is ridiculous.
The Cronus is what happens when you do handfitted mech construction.
The 6K is a great mech as well. I always love any mech with a head laser! Lol. I recently ran 2 Kintaro-21s in a tournament and I can confirm 55 tonners with max armor are just a pain in the butt to kill.
@@baker90338 Im pretty sure someone looked at the Wolvie and was like "I can make that better while making my 3060s mech." Lmao.
Just like many of the "This mech existed during the Star League" additions from the later books, im not a fan of historical ret-cons. If I'm playing introtech, i better be seeing the old boys club, not a downgraded Pillager.
I think this mech was just invented in the 3030s unless Im wrong lol. I dont see a problem with more mechs. More mechs is always good!
Yeah good call, that Cronus is a bit better. Too bad it looks hideous, those 3060s TROs were the low point of BT visual design.
It is certainly pretty ugly lmao. I do kind of like the design tho, I love off-center cockpits like the Tbolt.
@@TheManyVoicesVA It could have been cool with a bit more work, it's not unsalvageable like the Garm or the bloated Javelin that is the Ti Tsang
@@TheManyVoicesVA I bet a New Classic Cronus will look good if we eventually get one
@@TrailblazerBT I bet it will look like a summoner lol.
Good points, but damn, that art. Cronus is one fugly mech. Oh yeah, remembered to subscribe.
@@Willydjable heh ty. Ya it's so ugly I love it! So much character hahaha.
I dont think its heresy at all , pretty obscure design id never factored in that its available in 3025
It isn't XD that's why it never gets used. Its also FWL only basically, or periphery in later eras. I wish it was 3025. No reason it couldnt be hahaha.
Too bad the art looks like its got chafed inner thighs
Standin like a cowboy ready to duel ya. It is a pretty derpy mech drawing XD
Mech bias is showing, one does not compare apples to oranges.
'The Wolverine firing all of it's weapons gains 4 heat, plus movement. The Cronus can fire all of it's short range weapons....' all v some, of course the Wolverine is going to look worse when you bias a comparison.
Im just comparing their weapon loadouts. 3 medium lasers and an SRM4 is almost as much damage as 2 medlas and a LL and SRM6, but causes no heat issues.
The wolverine has less alpha strike damage, but the Cronus only wants to alpha if it is walking, whereas the Wolvie can do it while running. It can even juml and alpha but will go to 9 heat, which wont slow it down too much at least... If the Cronus tries that it's going to 11 heat, and basically has to jump again unless it stands still in cover or something, cuz 3/5 aint gonna keep it safe lol.
Cronus is better IMO, of course I'm biased towards it lol. But I wouldnt call my comparison biased, it's pretty fair. The only thing I didnt mention is that the wolvie has crit padded the legs with 1 HS each, but that slight increase in maintaining mobility isnt as good as 20 armor on the legs.
@@TheManyVoicesVA In an alpha output comparison, Cronus does beat the Wolverine, ngl. However, the Wolverine has a weapons loadout that allows it to better tailor the heat generation to maximize it to +4 heat (no penalties yet).
@@anotherdadjoke That's only if standing still tho. In my experience cavalry units rarely stand still. That's why I like the Cronus better. It can still fire say an SRM4, 1 medium laser, and a large laser while on the move and at like range 8 or something. It will only pick up movement heat with that, then once it closes it can use short range weapons while running with no penalty. Eventually it will get a turn where it can cool off, and reset the cycle.
The Cronus is better than the Wolverine... Fuck, you're serious? It's a frankenmech made out of scraps so broken they were just thrown away. If you look at it on paper, maybe it's the equal of some Wolverine variant- having only played the game for about 35 years, I might be too new to think of one, though. Sure, the numbers in the book are close, but the lore splits the difference. And "post 3SW salvage built in the garage by hillbillies in their spare time out of trash" isn't great lore.
This channel focuses mainly on optimization and competitive play. It is extremely similar to the Wolvie 6M. Like the weapons loadout is just swapping an SRM6 to a 4 and adding a medium laser. But it has a better weapon spread, with more balanced firepower on either side, and the ammo is better crit padded.
The narrative doesnt matter much once you get onto the table lol. Raw stats and numbers are what win battles, along with skill and luck. The Wolverine is an interesting design in lore and is a staple for a reason. But the AC5 versions are actually kind of trash, once they stick the large laser in, it's vastly improved. I also dont think Id want to ride in one as a mechwarrior. It has a cramped cockpit and is meant to be a command mech for cavalry lances, which makes it a big target.