I personally don't really care about live service games anymore but yeah having Linux/Proton locked out of some games by design is really disgusting IMO.
Yeah, i dont rlly care either but i see all the time where users are like, if destiny 2 was supported on linux or other game they would move to linux in a heartbeat or delete their dualboot as thats what they use that for
Yeah like the finals, i got to have private messages with the cofounder of embark and he was rlly keen on supporting linux, had to have some discussions with everyone else at the studio and now its supported, its insane how good the server side anticheat is at detecting cheaters, this kernel level crap does nothing as cheat devs just keep creating new ways
I disagree. It's a good thing. Those games aren't welcome as far as I'm concerned, so if they want to segregate themselves, go right ahead. Nothing of value lost. If the breaking point for someone to switch to linux is whether or not they can play some shitty gambling game, they should keep using Windows. Those people aren't welcome, either.
I remember pre pandemic when Proton and Wine started picking up their pace that people asked Bungie regarding Linux/Proton compatibility (specially since Stadia was running on Linux and it had it's own version of Destiny 2), they made a post about it declaring that Linux is illegal and many other nonsense i don't remember, it was a baffling and completely disconnected from reality post that honestly made you question the sanity of the people involved in writing it. Obviously now seems to be impossible to find said post. Regarding cheating, i think that PirateSoftware said it several times, but we DON'T need kernel lvl anticheats, what you really need is a good server side anticheat and toolset to detect cheaters, and a good anticheat team to F those bastards.
It's easier to cheat on windows than doing it through linux AND proton. Glorious Eggroll says it... he knows a thing or two about how the whole thing works. In the best case scenarios excluding proton it's just ignorance, in the worse: shady interests which I can't even manage to imagine.
Месяц назад+1
Definitely ignorance. It's just easy to lock it out and not care when people complain, rtøather than having to deal with it.
they are not shady, they know they cant run their trojans disguised as "anti cheat" on linux beacuse the system will tell you what the fuck they want to do to you computer.
Of course it is easier on Windows, because,, *drumroll*, the cheats runs under Windows. I haven't looked into it but name cheats that are specifically written for use with proton only. It's all just a bad excuse that lets them not having to support linux/steam deck players.
The game Concord is a pure piece of sh*t game, look at the player count on steam charts. Live service is being beat to death with publishers wanting every game they make to be pay to play. I am gladly happy to not support any company that blocks or refuses their game to run on a linux distro. The only game I had to say goodbye to when I moved to linux was Destiny 2 but since I'm able to play The Division 1 & 2, The First Descendant, Final Fantasy XI & XIV, Elden Ring, Outriders and Diablo 4 I don't miss Destiny 2.
That's just a great chance to improve Proton compatibility by being invisible to those pricks. After all, to any program, all their reality is virtual, giving anything for granted is the best chance to bypass your security.
It's more than not wanting to support Linux, they intentionally spend man hours to block proton/wine etc... They have nothing to do and their shit should just work. They can just say "game note tested on Linux, buy at your own risks" and buyers will do what they want. With their shitty practices, at least in my case, they'll go in my "black list: never buy from..." and that it. Won't make a huge difference, but all the shaddy things MS is doing, ppl are starting to realize Windows is not a good system, and many ppl can switch to Linux and have the same experience. It's certainly take many more years, but it's already happening. We'll see, I guess.
Wuthering Waves with the latest update ran perfectly on Linux, 2 days later the developers realized that they had not activated the anticheat... It makes us angry because the games run better than on Windows but for these stupid anticheats we can't use them
oh. if wuthering waves worked on linux, i might still play it. maybe. but i got tired of rebooting into windows just to play this cheap copy of genshin and just decided to quit this week. haven't logged in in a while. and honestly, nothing of value is lost. i wasn't having fun in this game. at this point, even if it worked on linux i wouldn't play it anymore because the reboot process wore me out faster on the game.
@@GraveUypo If it were the only game I'd agree with you, but 7 of the 10 games where I have the most hours on Steam don't run on Linux due to the anticheat
It's double funny because Punishing gray revan, the devs previous game, works without a single workaround(outside of needing GE proton for cutscenes) and perfectly. Heck I heard windows perfomance problems are because of the anti cheat. I'm literally thinging of quitting simply because of that, I ain't dual booting, no way no how, and on phone it's ass to play, I can barely dodge right, and touch screen is just bad for a game like this.
Client side anti-cheat in and on itself is so dumb that everyone who pushes for that needs to be dressed down in front of the entire company and ridiculed 'till the end of there natural life. Also please understand that most "Game Studios" have one or two actual coders on there team that can do engine level stuff the rest is "Designers" who can barely make a "Hallo World" work in LUA/C# and Artists who are rarely comptent in even scripting there own tools. Not supporting Linux or excluding it is a management decision only.
Only buy and invest your time into games that play on Linux. Only solution. The network effect for Linux and Linux gaming is about to kick in. At that point, this will all be a non issue. My guess, when the Steam Deck 2 launches in a couple years. All second generation consoles get a significant adoption boom.
I think the best explanation is not that they think Linux users are more likely to cheat, The problem is that Linux users are more likely to be curious, and have the technical know how to see what's going on under the hood. There's something running under that bonnet that they don't want people to know about...
wrong. Its not cheating, its that they dont want you to know what the "Anti cheat" is doing on your computer, on windows they can ofuscate what they are doing on your computers beacause its a black box, on linux they cant.
@@christiangonzalez6945 I'm confused... How am i "wrong"?... That is basically what i said... "There's something running under that bonnet that they don't want people to know about..."
I thought the whole idea of Proton was that games would seamlessly work on Linux without the developer having to "support" it, like they would've had to in the past by way of native builds? This isn't about supporting Linux but rather developers actively blocking Linux.
Yes thats how it works, valve takes care of the games and game studio only needs to support the anticheat side which is easy to setup and valve has a guide for doing it on their developer website Lots of games are supporting proton, its just some certain ones like destiny or rainbow that continue to deny supporting it or ignore linux users And look thats fine, cant play destiny well go play the first descendants, cant play rainbow well go play cs2, overwatch, the finals etc etc But id like more people to try linux some day and if the games they want to play arent supported on linux through proton then there is no point trying out linux in the first place
The developers don't need to do anything to support it, they are activity and intentionally braking Proton support claiming its for anticheat. The real reason is more likely that Microsoft is paying devs to brake proton support because Linux is becoming more and more popular as Windows becomes more and more privacy invasive. one of the biggest hold backs for Linux growth has always been game performance and now that we are getting close to performance parody with gaming, Microsoft is crapping their pants.
The only games left they can work are destiny, r6 and rust, they use anticheats that can run with proton, the studios simply deny enabling it The other games like valorant, league, battlefield v,2042 yes they use kernel level and there is nothing that can be done, but who cares about these games ngl, there not that fun and there are alternatives to play
@@linuxnext I'm actually dual booting Windows 11 now because I really wanted to play Valorant and it's a ton of fun. I denied the game for it's anti cheat for the past years but my friends begged me to play with them.
Yeah I have played valorant a decent amount back in 2019 through 2020 but I had enough as it requires a lot of team work and I just don't have that in me as I get angry too much with it, my friends don't rlly like it either that much but if you like it then that's awesome
Wait, The Finals uses server side anticheat? THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CASE EVERYWHERE!! It works for Valve, it works for consoles and for The Finals, it seems. What is so difficult about this? Even with Windows (whenever I boot that outside of playing VR games) I hate having rootkit software running in the background. Also wanted to buy Helldivers 2 for long now but Sony's plans for that stupid PSN account (lost mine years ago, so even my digital games on PS3 are basically locked) always pushes me away from it. And all just because they are too lazy to figure something so PSN works without additional software. Like wtf?
Yes they never mention the anticheat they use as they think it will cause security risks for cheating which is true, you only see some patch notes of them saying they improved anticheat detection or patches for cheating I think that's perfect way of updating the anticheat for their player base A friend of mine even found their documents about how a human would cheat so they could train the ai for it lol After seeing this server side anticheat get extremely better overtime in the finals shows how good this can be and other games should follow as it is privacy friendly then a kernel level anticheat
I wonder if the reasoning has more to do with how these anti cheat programs work on Windows rather than simply not enough Linux gamers. Some of them are super intrusive, down to the kernel level meaning it can track your mouse movements and keystrokes, They say it's to prevent cheating and real time game modification but I bet they just like that extra data telling them which money sinks are the most likely to attract your click so they can keep shoving them in front of your face. On Linux, they can't get that data due to the segmented security focused nature of the Linux kernel preventing their predatory game psychologists from having data to work with.
Or even more likely, because it's so open, people absolutely WILL look into the the kernel anti module, and make sure that it's not trying to pull anything shady, and find out that yes, they are doing shady shit.
@isaiahkern9434 well they could do a proprietary blob like what nvidia does with their proprietary drivers so this is possible without causing a risk necessarily
I applaud this kind of integrity. I wish we could get everyone to see how messed up it is that these companies are intentionally degrading user experience in order to force people to buy and use hardware and software that we don't want and don't actually need.
No kernel-level anticheat working is a feature to me. I find that to be an inexcusable privacy invasion and definitely not worth the security risk. No game's leaderboard is worth this much to me and its nobody's business to rummage through my system like that. I don't even let AV software auto-upload samples.
Just makes me happy the newest game i play is BG3 and i don't play any online only / multiplayer games anymore. Most of these new / big companies expect us to pay $70-150 for fewer features and less content than Sims 4 without any "DLC", while forcing us to be online in a single-player game... because "live service" then they copy EA by locking all of said missing features and content behind paywalls and "DLC".
They say it's about "protecting their players" but it's just them not caring to let Linux players run the game because they're afraid of cheats. The anticheats already barely work on Windows, lmao.
It's funny that you talk about the finals here. I was in the discord server, and it was really awful. The window's community in the finals (not saying all of them of course) during the early days of the game were so outright scared of having Linux support enabled because of how many cheaters there were at the time and made many excuses and begged for the devs not to allow proton, so they also actively bullied and harassed people out of the server who asked for proton support. It got to the point where channels had to be temporarily locked down. I like to think that the people who were involved in these bullying campaigns were one of the reasons why proton support was added.
@@tristnnnn yeah, the discord mods are very nice to the Linux users and allow a separate Linux text channel where we can talk and help out each other Its a disgrace seeing how windows users have such distaste for Linux users when they don't fully understand it
Game developer and Linux user here, I always support Linux (natively or proton) on my game projects. With Linux, I learned to play games who really care about their players by allowing Linux support. I got a discussion with Riot Vanguard Lead Developer and he's a very toxic guy who like insulting cheaters and altruistic players who deny Riot Vanguard on Twitter. (btw, he was a part of ESEA Launcher cryptominer scandal who are disguised into kernel anti-cheat) The majority of client/kernel anti-cheat developers are from ex-cheat makers and hackers. Anyway, play online games who allow playing on Linux and their DRM and Anti-Cheats works on Linux without any intrusive process, or Pirate them, seriously the developers don't care about Piracy. So... This is my sentence: "It's the law of large numbers, if you know you have 1% of cheaters on your game, even with the strongest intrusive kernel anti-cheat you will still get 1% of cheaters because the cheat makers has improved their cheat. But ! If you port your game on Linux, you will still get 1% of cheaters, because porting a game don't mean more cheaters." - Me
I am so glad that I can't stand multiplayer online games. I love local multiplayer and they work fine and single player games work fine. I will say that it really sucks though for the people that like the games. I think these game companies should just collect security deposits and if you get banned for cheating you lose your money.
I tell you what dude, I am switching to Linux in a month or two. I do not like the direction Microsoft is heading when it comes to privacy and also how little support older games get. I can't even install Area 51, Timeshift, or Sacrifice anymore. So the developers better support Linux because if they don't I am not buying their games. I rather not game at all if I am forced to play these new woke games on an operating system that doesn't respect your privacy. I.AM.DONE!
A problem with Linux that as an indie dev I have noticed is that making a native Linux app is harder because a game I'm working on for Windows and Linux Mint, works flawlessly on Mint and Ubuntu, partially on Debian, not at all on Arch and Arch-based distros, and partially on Puppy Linux with Wine. In comparison, I have PC CD games from Windows 95 (Metal Gear Solid and SEGA Rally for example) which were made for Win 95, 98, 2000 and XP that still just work on Windows 10 and 11. Linux's best feature, the fact it is open and has a plethora of choices is a double-edged sword since they all try to do what Windows does, but they all do it differently which causes compatibility issues among other Linux distros, nevermind different platforms like MacOS and Windows. And the community wants us to just make everything open source so they can reverse engineer our game engines to work on other distros, which is fine, except my beta engine already got recompliled and has other people using it to make things rather than supporting my game/engine with a license, and this makes it undesirable to do so for us indie devs who just want to put food on the table and persue a hobby.
@@BlueEyedVibeChecker we don't want native games, proton solves this issue and you as a dev don't have to worry about it not working as valve takes care of it All my games run through Proton except valves native games, no issues on latest stable proton for the majority of my games, some others need newer patches that haven't been tested fully by valve like some patches in the finals for example I understand the distro part with native games but again just use proton and get it steamdeck verified that's all that is needed, if you use a anticheat you need to enable it or update the anticheat with the required SDK files for wine/proton to work appropriately I wouldn't focus as much on the desktop side of things, there is a lot of niche desktops out there, focus on desktops that fully support a Wayland compositor like KDE plasma, gnome, system76 new cosmic rust desktop, tiling managers are also a niche thing to use and so that creates issues also but that is usually the devs over there who have to fix those problems not the games devs usually That's where proton solves this again as you don't have worry about that If you want to support Linux native tho then by all means try to but like you said there is a lot of things that need to be supported on all fronts and needing to update it a lot so that it works on majority of desktops and tiling managers
@@linuxnext Personally, I plan to use Wine for my games mostly since I plan to release physical versions that work on both Windows and Linux (Natively for Mint and Ubuntu-based distros, Wine as an extra measure for others) But yeah, Valve have done wonders for us with Proton and I hope they continue with it for a long time. I plan to stop dualbooting and switch to Mint full time once Windows 10 support is dropped, but as far as physical versions go, the native compatibility may still be a small issue for me in that regard.
@@BlueEyedVibeChecker yeah, understandable Good luck on your Journey to Linux! By then Linux mint should be Wayland ready so that you get some nice features like multi monitor refresh rates, hdr, freesync, screen tearing also if you want that :>
The Devs these days seem to only care about making money; which is also their double edge sword. So many people want to play these live service games on linux and its not an issue with their anti-cheat. 90% of them are supported now with the exception of Vanguard, ricochet and the plethora of asian market ACs. Cheats now are built different where many of them are not even ran on the same PC running the game, they use a specific "GPU" that dumps the ram from the host system, applys the cheats from the second PC and injects it back.
If I was Valve, I would demand that all games put on the store to support the Steam deck, Proton and Linux. Otherwise they get delisted and refunds given.
Here's my two cents on this. Playing devils advocate On a technical level, anti cheat on Linux is almost outright impossible for game studios The reason is exactly because the kernel is open source. It such a massive double edge sword. Windows being close sourced ironically makes it harder to make cheats compared to Linux. Linux anticheats can't trust the kernel because the kernel can be infected with cheats built-in in the first place. You might wonder why no devs are allowing Linux compatibility with anticheats. It turns out with EasyAnticheat. Once you enable the Linux compatibility, it turns EAC from a kernel anticheat to a userspace anticheat. In other words, EAC is dumbed down to work like VAC. Game studios aren't going to spend extra to work on server side anticheat because this has to be a per-game basis and it's just too expensive or too much work. At some point if the game is so competitive that cheaters are willing to do anything just to cheat, they aren't gonna risk it. They much rather buy an existing client side anticheat that works on every game.
It's actually much harder to write cheats in linux because of the closed sourced nature of windows and windows based apps, also the fact that linux by design locks most thing out from the kernel as a privacy/security measure. But as far as the anti cheat getting somewhat dumbed down when activating linux support, I Don't know much about that one. EAC at the very least and battleye i think are both server side for the most part.
@@devynmounteer6696 The problem is unlike Windows, you can just edit the kernel source code with cheats and completely bypass any anticheat kernel modules/drivers. This is exactly what I mean a double edged sword. Keep in mind, the kernel defends against outside attackers, but not “you”, the user. You have full control of everything. Obviously cheat makers don't care anything about GPL. But anticheat companies can't do the same because they don't want to open source their stuff.
Proton and Wine can be such a mess to understand. If you seek help online typically people redirect you to they're use case and not your own. Generally speaking wine can do just about anything including running mods, but it's a hot mess peicing it all together and nobody can really help you. Debugging is 95% self help. I typically stick to lutris and wine because it's easier to dig into the guts of everything. The easy way to solve anticheat issues would be games being cracked then using goldberg emulator and perhaps needing to develop a multiplayer mod for said game. This is why I get annoyed when people complain about piracy. People don't pirate to avoid paying they pirate to add features to the game. Baldur's Gate 3 has traditional LAN right in the game. No need for piracy, excessive modding and linux troubleshooting when developers do they're job.
With nexus mods new modding app this should make it easier for Linux users as the app will be natively supported with proton also github.com/Nexus-Mods/NexusMods.App But yeah modding is a bit of a learning curve for new users learning how proton works
@@linuxnext That app could end up with a lot of issues. Who knows how it will interact with modengine, mod organizer etc. and if it will play nice with pirated copies. Unfortunately piracy is heavily attacked on forums. I pay money for all games I play, but if features like LAN exist on pirated copies then both copies have value in my opinion. Being able to have low latency on a local area network is amazing for multiplayer games.
I am happy I stopped caring about gaming after I sold my gaming PC. I do miss playing some Forza and Soul Calibur 6 / Dead or Alive 6, but duh... I just hate what the gaming industry has become.
These studios don't want to support them because that opens a whole new channel of bug reports for a probably vocal minority which doesn't represent as much sales. That being said, if they have the mean to identify someone using proton/wine/steamdeck... they should be able to selectively fix bugs. I understand not wanting to handle that support for monetary reason, but if you can identify the platform... you shouldn't straight block people from playing. That's truly shitty. Of course most of them won't admit that's the reason and will fall back on the excuse that "linux allows cheating" (which is true but definitely not a big deal as cheaters also have easier means to cheat on windows).
Yeah, i mean when a game gets supported with proton its valves job to make the game work without many problems, when the finals got supported with proton their were a couple problems like the voice channel in the game would crash if you enabled it, avx 512 wasnt supported so the game would crash, the video lcd screens on the maps were broken, and the frame timing and fps were not that great, valve got to work and fixed those issues, now it runs pretty well if you look at the gameplay there are no issues with it. These studios should be more inviting to allow valves engineers to help out with getting their games working with proton as they do wonders for the steamdeck and linux desktop space :)
@@lohlundgames well 5% is "supposed" to be where investors give a crap about some certain thing that could be a good investment and same goes for certain software so things might change but who knows Id like 10% lol but i know that aint happening any time soon Only a matter of time...
Yes I agree to all of it. I mean of course, I don't play that much of live service games and the one I really play (Final Fantasy XIV) does work on Linux wonderfully. But I had one case some weeks ago where I wanted to play a certain game I think it was called Tarisland, which didn't work. Therefor I wasn't able to play with em. I really appreciate devs who are working on making their games available on Linux through wine/proton or even make it natively. Thank you for sharing your words and I hope some devs will listen to it and change their ways of thinking about linux. A short side question: Which software do you use to cut your videos? I tried to use Kdenlive but the rendering takes so long. Do you may have any tips on that?
I use Kdenlive also, I use software encoding with vp9 codec, I used to use h264 with vaapi which is hardware acceleration but that doesn't look that good, so I wait for a while depending on how long the video is
To most game devs, supporting Linux is just more work so they weigh up if it's worth it. Linux gamers who dual-boot Windows could just not play blocked games, even on Windows, but as Linux still represents such a small (but growing) market share, that wouldn't have much of an impact. What WOULD have an impact is if Windows gamers were to say "Hang on, blocking Linux isn't cool, so we're not playing either" and stand with Linux gamers. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen as collective solidarity isn't common in gaming. The best thing any of us can do is to vocally encourage devs and publishers to support Linux, and raise the profile of Linux-supporting games through RUclips, streaming, social media etc.
Roblox has disabled wine/proton support a few months ago, so theres no way to play it on linux at all now. It even has virtual machine detection, so theres no luck even for that. It surprises me that there is no linux support when android has a native port and is based on the linux kernel!!
Having to have a windows partition exclusively for Destiny is just pain. I can't fully move on from windows until Destiny is either dead or Bungie pulls their heads out of their asses :/
I'm not sure why Rainbow Six Siege and Xdefiant are doing things differently from one another in regards to Linux when they're both Ubisoft games. Different teams to be sure, but Ubisoft nonetheless. Ubi needs to get their house in order.
@@SirCaco yep mark Rubin likes Linux so they support it, this is basically the people inside of the studios who have false notions about linux or straight up don't like it
I mean at least they are doing you a favor on not getting this dead on arrival game but it is depressing when you use Linux to play games but the devs or publishers refusing to let you use your preferred Linux distro
For a anticheat like battleye or eac it is a simple as either ticking a box then send out the update to your depot which doesnt require the user to do a update in steam, so its literally over a server situation, if your using a older version of eac you need to manually grab the new sdk package and include the eac files For battleye you need to contact them to enable it server side Its rlly funny ngl, the easiest thing ever for that, but of course other games might be using extra server side things so this is where devs might not want to do it or the higher ups will deny it as they are skeptical about it even tho other studios allow it so
Yeah I was thinking about switching the Linux because the window uses way too much ram nowadays but I play destiny and didn't want to get banned trying to run it on Linux So I'm stuck with windows until the mind set changes towards Linux gaming, sony not supporting Linux is ironic their own os for their consoles is FreeBSD even though FreeBSD it's not Linux they are very similar
Studios who do this can be expected to make shit games anyway. I am not interested. They are leeches on society. They only make games to extract money. I have been playing games since the green monitors, so I can compare good to bad. It's only graphical fidelity for those games, nothing else that is good. Young people are bamboozled by the graphics and can't see the lack of quality. Go to indie games and you will be happier.
Linus users specifically DO NOT want special treatment, they want the gane conpany to turn a blind eye to people running their games in compatibility layers. If the game would run otherwise it feels like blatant discrimination to not allow them to play. Maybe port the anticheat or at least click the checkbox to allow linux users to play
Honestly I have mixed opinions on it, for me it's more about live service games. What it comes down to is cheating really, and I understand it from the devs point of view to an extent but also get how it can be frustrating from the Linux users perspective. Because Linux is open source, many different aspects of the OS can be exploited with kernel bypasses and etc. I seen an apex cheat that's works on Linux and it's free nor has it ever been detected. Kinda crazy and interesting to see. Maybe I'm wrong in what I'm saying, I'm not super educated on all of this.
@@pandaman21 its a double edge sword with Linux being open source, everyone can see the code but it also means anyone can help patch exploits, it's why security is rather decent on Linux, so if it came to cheating it would be more difficult in my opinion since more eyes would be upstreaming patches to a specific package that needs it to stop cheaters, lots of people don't see it that way and rather a private company with proprietary software to solve it when most don't and take ages to fix exploits of cheats under Windows If Anti-Cheats want to support Linux like EAC and battleye they need to stop cheating, idk if they are doing that because they aren't open source
Are you able to make a video guide for new beginners wanting to completely jumping over to Linux from Windows? I've been around a lonnnngggg while but I wouldn't know where to start.
They need to fix the damn anticheat on Linux and it would be perfect as all games run at 100+ FPS maxed out on Linux, which is better than windows on the same hardware, lol
two options for me present themselves partially due to a dead tpm and only asus tpm's are being sold in stores not msi and on like amazon there just some knockoff tpm's that apparently catch fire from reviews lovely option 1 : i ditch windows for linux and try gaming on linux option 2 : if linux gaming doesn't work out i install windows 10 again or try to bypass the tpm shit and run windows 11 but give the system never internet again and ill use a other system that is on linux and pirate everything i owned and plop it on the windows 10 after checking it for safety in a vm i cant do the third option as i don't have a chipset for gpu passthrough i hope option 1 works also reason of no dual boot is the security part if i have to pirate again there is bound to be a viruses or keylogger or whatever shipped with the pirated games so even if i keep the windows boot offline due to linux being online it could still do its damage i basically got out of needing to pirate and now i am apparently forced back into without a fricking choice unless i stop playing games all together now what jokester will tell you yes i have a gaming pc what does it run? run what it is a decoration what are you talking about
the good thing with pirating on linux is if you use flatpak then loading repacks is pretty safe because its containerized and you can give what permissions you like to that flatpak with a app like flatseal, bottles is a good tool for this if you wanna create separate bottles/windows prefixes and run certain software in it privately
why not let them block the game its like 2k or less people playing they just dont want people to play the game even its bad enough and dying , and happy bluescreen day
oh yeah concord isnt that good, just certain studios and companies continue to block proton so i thought id create this video and yah happy bluescreen day :P
I don't really get it, it's like cutting out xbox or ps5 from games that aren't exclusive and if cheating is such problem force linux people into a linux only server, at the end of day all your doing is cutting off people who want to play and pay for your game
they cant even detect cheats on windows, gotta wonder if someone is paying to block linux. You would think their greed would at least motivate them to not block linux users.
@@p4l4d1n7 it could be someone internally that is saying all the crap about Linux not being as intrusive as Windows lol, so they C a n t BAn C hE aters which is a load of bullcrap :D, I do get why a studio wouldnt tho because the market share is to low, even if there are a couple million Linux desktop users they just don't see that as worthy enough, even if valve handles maintaining the game like they do with every other game running through proton
@@linuxnext Yep its around 2-4% but after that windows outage i think linux is gonna be a little popular also easy anti cheat works on linux i tried it out on a game called polygon
@@Totallynotmwa then linux will be a contender, in the business world 5% is where companies start to take notice in a products growth so 15% would be wild haha
you wont fall for that again, but fall for a rootkit anti cheat that who knows what is stealing from your computer, and selling that to who knows. yeah smart move my dude, really a 300 IQ move.
I think they should update their TOS for developers that says if they upload a game on the platform they cannot block steamdeck support or risk delisting the game as a whole
@@ZeFoxii I dunno, unfortunately. The only idea I have is to argue that breaking Linux compatibility hurts competition, but I'm not a lawyer and idk how that'd go
If you ask me proton developers don't care what developer thinks and will update proton accordingly to work with games that don't support it by default because when it comes to proton none of developers actualy support it but they won't say it and as new games arrive it shouldn't matter if developers don't support proton or not when proton will be updated to catch up.
@@linuxnext yeah, anticheat crap causes whole lot of problems with wine in general regardles of what you use be it lutris, steam's proton and so on. All implementations of wine have same problems.
Developers are just lazy and put blame on something that isn't true and they don't want to fix a problem that only Linux users might have. There are games that seriously don't need anticheat like Roblox.
Linux doesn't prevent game developers from building kernel anticheats. They're just too lazy really. They could just release some sanctified kernels for the major desktop distros, then use TPM2 to verify it's signature.
to be honest i'm glad they don't. i really don't want kernel spyware on my linux. i'm quite comfortable without telemetry and spyware on my linux and i wouldn't want to ruin it for some dumb game. kernel level anti cheats should be a crime. make something server-side -_-
@@GraveUypo I'm in the same boat personally, but honestly, I doubt kernel level anticheat will ever disappear. People want to play competitive games even if they necessitate a rootkit, so Linux will eventually need to make an effort to get them ported over.
Well star wars outlaws better as the ubisoft overlay works flawlessly under proton, but with the new god of war this may require the psn overlay and that currently doesnt work with proton but they will probs go the same route as they did with ghost of tsushima where you can play just the overlay will be disabled
I'm just going to say, take a look at the game War Thunder. Its not just on Windows, but Linux OS X ,PS4 and 5 and xbox as well as windows. Yes Linux is very game-able, and Steam not needed either.
I'll tell you what I think: I'm 33 years old, I've been using Linux since 2006, when we all used MSN Messenger to communicate. I discovered Linux in 2006 with Ubuntu 6.06, and already at that time I made a choice, I only use what runs on Linux, everything else doesn't exist. now in 2024 I look back andI mature you and that's what I believe, if it's not accessible on Linux I don't use it say I was right, Linux will always be the best alternative, but we the users decide where the balance shifts. Stop complaining about what doesn't work or what they don't allow us to make work, on the contrary, we appreciate and love where we have arrived with free software
Yes i agree, this isnt about free software tho, its about studios simply not enabling their anticheat with proton, someone has to talk about it more as i dont see it that much, only redditors complaining about it Im fine not playing destiny or r6, there are plenty of other games to play and my friends don't play those games either so im chillin but for others its a stop gap where they wont try out linux because of one of those games, i care about linux desktop and want to see it continue to grow which it is I am extremely grateful that i can use linux daily without windows in sight :)
@@linuxnext i have a ryzen 5800x / rtx2080 and i get around 75-110 fps on that map. Done everything on CachyOS to squeeze every drop of it :'). Windows is worse
@--ic0n-1- yeah for some reason the finals rlly likes am5, im running all low except textures and view distance at epic, 1080p, no upscaling either Im running cachy os aswell with the bore scheduler Could be that my amd gpu runs pretty well on linux also thanks to RADV in mesa
I still have really bad experiences with Linux Gaming (no live service, from old to new games). Even when the game is first working fine, after a couple of hours a special menu is causing crashes, the Shaders are broken or my save games are destroyed. After months desperately trying gaming on Linux, I use Windows only for gaming now.
Rlly odd as i have multiple systems both amd and nvidia that i test and dont have these problems. If you could specify the games that have problems id love to know
That's strange. I used to have a few problems about two years ago, but these days it's very rare. And I vary a lot from AAA games to old games on GOG, Steam and Epic. Do you check steamdb for problems? Maybe you got an OS that offered old Mesa drivers & Linux kernel.
Dude linux represents such a small portion of all gamers. All the people developing cheat programs are gonna do it on windows. Who the hell is gonna completely switch their OS to use wall hacks? I suspect the real reason is their kernel anticheat does more than it says (data collection) or they don't want to bother with bug reports from linux users. But tbh this makes no sense bc they could just simply ignore Linux users and say good luck if you wanna run it on wine.
By keeping away live service games from Linux they are doing us a favor. And DEI games are the last thing we wish to find browsing games on Linux: (Destiny 2, Concord, ... etc.)
Don't be confused, Windows is paying the gaming companies to stop proton support. I can almost guarantee it. Linux is getting more popular and Microsoft can see the writing on the wall. I would bet my left toe they are trying to stop Linux growth!
I wasted houndreds of hours trying to use linux productively. Then gnome 3 came out and I gave up... Every distro I install has problems, with audio, with Vsync, with stutter, missing driver features, youtube stutters, vlc sucks, no other good video players, no good music players, houndreds of missing programs that people use (not just photoshop)... Every update breaks things and you cant even install programs without updating. So yeah... Win7 for life XD
mpv is better that vlc. When you watch youtube, does your CPU spike? If so, your GPU is not being used. Look to download mp4 files and watch them with mpv (uses accel).
Gnome 3 came out a very long time ago lol, i dont use vlc i use haruna, good music player? You have elisa, g4music, amberol, stutter doesnt exist anymore with the majority of hardware, unsure what stutter you even mean tbh, sure there are missing programs but there alternatives, every update breaks things? Well thats just false. Maybe if you use arch then yeah it can happen because its rolling, you can install programs easily, try flatpak sometime. Is this bait? Steam doesnt even support windows 7 anymore so this doesnt make sense at all unless you dont use steam at all Linux has solved all of those problems, so give it a try again instead of mentioning issues from 2011. Its funny as I'm literally playing the finals, a fps shooter on linux that is supposed to only run on windows. With over 130 to 150fps with my audio working great and my desktop is working perfectly. Ragebait ngl -5/10
@@linuxnext I stopped using it long time ago yes. But I tried using it every now and then for years now. Every time I install and spend time setting things up there are numerous problems that I dont wanna tolerate. For exsample in in mint you could use utility for adjusting saturation "libvibrant" but on same laptop manjaro wouldnt recognise that gpu supports CTM and you couldnt use it. Its probbably different drivers. Problems with dependencies all the time, you wanna install steam after os install. No, problems with keys or something, lets mess with repositories and try to update keys... Just terrible, canot leave PC off for few days and then quickly install something without downloading 2GB update first.... Idk. I run win 7, havent updated it for years and it works like a dream. I know that it slowly losses support from dwvelopers but PCs that cant run dx12 dont need to update anyway... I dont use steam really.
@@bobmcbob4399 All of them are half functional, you should really have five different players installed and jump around them when something doesnt work on one of them.
Begging from Linux users needs to stop. Just take out your wallets and pay hansomely for games that you like and do support Linux. The true problem is that we have a reputation that we prefer free solutions to paid ones and this puts off some developers.
loool that's so funny to me. this DEI game deliberately exclude people from playing it? hahahh! Specially funny because if they let you play, it might double the player base from 1 guy to 2!
Linux is not Windows and if your not willing to learn its differences then you will have a bad time. That said if you only tried one distro that maybe many people talk about but is technically for more advanced users, yes your time maybe rough *cought Arch*. Instead you should try Linux Mint EDGE edition, i use it for gaming and i have not once needed to touch a terminal. Its not hard, just different, wouldn't be anymore difficult than going from Windows to MacOS
I personally don't really care about live service games anymore but yeah having Linux/Proton locked out of some games by design is really disgusting IMO.
Yeah, i dont rlly care either but i see all the time where users are like, if destiny 2 was supported on linux or other game they would move to linux in a heartbeat or delete their dualboot as thats what they use that for
@@linuxnext You can't trust the client. A server-sided anti-cheat will do wonders, especially if you're willing to support Proton.
Yeah like the finals, i got to have private messages with the cofounder of embark and he was rlly keen on supporting linux, had to have some discussions with everyone else at the studio and now its supported, its insane how good the server side anticheat is at detecting cheaters, this kernel level crap does nothing as cheat devs just keep creating new ways
@@linuxnextyeah and the spineless Dev don't even have the decency to present some justification 😑
I disagree. It's a good thing. Those games aren't welcome as far as I'm concerned, so if they want to segregate themselves, go right ahead. Nothing of value lost. If the breaking point for someone to switch to linux is whether or not they can play some shitty gambling game, they should keep using Windows. Those people aren't welcome, either.
I remember pre pandemic when Proton and Wine started picking up their pace that people asked Bungie regarding Linux/Proton compatibility (specially since Stadia was running on Linux and it had it's own version of Destiny 2), they made a post about it declaring that Linux is illegal and many other nonsense i don't remember, it was a baffling and completely disconnected from reality post that honestly made you question the sanity of the people involved in writing it.
Obviously now seems to be impossible to find said post.
Regarding cheating, i think that PirateSoftware said it several times, but we DON'T need kernel lvl anticheats, what you really need is a good server side anticheat and toolset to detect cheaters, and a good anticheat team to F those bastards.
Garbage Games and Garbage Developers
It's easier to cheat on windows than doing it through linux AND proton. Glorious Eggroll says it... he knows a thing or two about how the whole thing works. In the best case scenarios excluding proton it's just ignorance, in the worse: shady interests which I can't even manage to imagine.
Definitely ignorance. It's just easy to lock it out and not care when people complain, rtøather than having to deal with it.
they are not shady, they know they cant run their trojans disguised as "anti cheat" on linux beacuse the system will tell you what the fuck they want to do to you computer.
Of course it is easier on Windows, because,, *drumroll*, the cheats runs under Windows. I haven't looked into it but name cheats that are specifically written for use with proton only. It's all just a bad excuse that lets them not having to support linux/steam deck players.
The game Concord is a pure piece of sh*t game, look at the player count on steam charts. Live service is being beat to death with publishers wanting every game they make to be pay to play. I am gladly happy to not support any company that blocks or refuses their game to run on a linux distro. The only game I had to say goodbye to when I moved to linux was Destiny 2 but since I'm able to play The Division 1 & 2, The First Descendant, Final Fantasy XI & XIV, Elden Ring, Outriders and Diablo 4 I don't miss Destiny 2.
@@Phanbot01 I am supper addicted to The First Descendant lol, I am so happy games work on Linux now
that "game" is worth playing at ALL even for free, garbage game made by garbage devs
That's just a great chance to improve Proton compatibility by being invisible to those pricks. After all, to any program, all their reality is virtual, giving anything for granted is the best chance to bypass your security.
The Finals got a bunch of money from me because they support Linux.
It's more than not wanting to support Linux, they intentionally spend man hours to block proton/wine etc...
They have nothing to do and their shit should just work. They can just say "game note tested on Linux, buy at your own risks" and buyers will do what they want.
With their shitty practices, at least in my case, they'll go in my "black list: never buy from..." and that it.
Won't make a huge difference, but all the shaddy things MS is doing, ppl are starting to realize Windows is not a good system, and many ppl can switch to Linux and have the same experience.
It's certainly take many more years, but it's already happening. We'll see, I guess.
Wuthering Waves with the latest update ran perfectly on Linux, 2 days later the developers realized that they had not activated the anticheat... It makes us angry because the games run better than on Windows but for these stupid anticheats we can't use them
Yeah i know it sucks
oh. if wuthering waves worked on linux, i might still play it. maybe. but i got tired of rebooting into windows just to play this cheap copy of genshin and just decided to quit this week. haven't logged in in a while. and honestly, nothing of value is lost. i wasn't having fun in this game. at this point, even if it worked on linux i wouldn't play it anymore because the reboot process wore me out faster on the game.
@@GraveUypo If it were the only game I'd agree with you, but 7 of the 10 games where I have the most hours on Steam don't run on Linux due to the anticheat
It's double funny because Punishing gray revan, the devs previous game, works without a single workaround(outside of needing GE proton for cutscenes) and perfectly. Heck I heard windows perfomance problems are because of the anti cheat. I'm literally thinging of quitting simply because of that, I ain't dual booting, no way no how, and on phone it's ass to play, I can barely dodge right, and touch screen is just bad for a game like this.
Client side anti-cheat in and on itself is so dumb that everyone who pushes for that needs to be dressed down in front of the entire company and ridiculed 'till the end of there natural life.
Also please understand that most "Game Studios" have one or two actual coders on there team that can do engine level stuff the rest is "Designers" who can barely make a "Hallo World" work in LUA/C# and Artists who are rarely comptent in even scripting there own tools. Not supporting Linux or excluding it is a management decision only.
Only buy and invest your time into games that play on Linux. Only solution. The network effect for Linux and Linux gaming is about to kick in. At that point, this will all be a non issue. My guess, when the Steam Deck 2 launches in a couple years. All second generation consoles get a significant adoption boom.
I think the best explanation is not that they think Linux users are more likely to cheat, The problem is that Linux users are more likely to be curious, and have the technical know how to see what's going on under the hood. There's something running under that bonnet that they don't want people to know about...
wrong.
Its not cheating, its that they dont want you to know what the "Anti cheat" is doing on your computer, on windows they can ofuscate what they are doing on your computers beacause its a black box, on linux they cant.
@@christiangonzalez6945 I'm confused... How am i "wrong"?... That is basically what i said... "There's something running under that bonnet that they don't want people to know about..."
@@pseudonymity0000some people just like to repeat other peoples words and put a flag on it like they made it. It is exactly what you said
@@christiangonzalez6945 they just buy the "Anticheat" as a black box. Don't think those malware producers let there "Clients" see what they cooked up.
I thought the whole idea of Proton was that games would seamlessly work on Linux without the developer having to "support" it, like they would've had to in the past by way of native builds?
This isn't about supporting Linux but rather developers actively blocking Linux.
Yes thats how it works, valve takes care of the games and game studio only needs to support the anticheat side which is easy to setup and valve has a guide for doing it on their developer website
Lots of games are supporting proton, its just some certain ones like destiny or rainbow that continue to deny supporting it or ignore linux users
And look thats fine, cant play destiny well go play the first descendants, cant play rainbow well go play cs2, overwatch, the finals etc etc
But id like more people to try linux some day and if the games they want to play arent supported on linux through proton then there is no point trying out linux in the first place
The developers don't need to do anything to support it, they are activity and intentionally braking Proton support claiming its for anticheat. The real reason is more likely that Microsoft is paying devs to brake proton support because Linux is becoming more and more popular as Windows becomes more and more privacy invasive. one of the biggest hold backs for Linux growth has always been game performance and now that we are getting close to performance parody with gaming, Microsoft is crapping their pants.
The only games that are blocking support that I see are ONLINE ONLY games where they use a rootkit to steal data.
The only games left they can work are destiny, r6 and rust, they use anticheats that can run with proton, the studios simply deny enabling it
The other games like valorant, league, battlefield v,2042 yes they use kernel level and there is nothing that can be done, but who cares about these games ngl, there not that fun and there are alternatives to play
@@linuxnext I'm actually dual booting Windows 11 now because I really wanted to play Valorant and it's a ton of fun. I denied the game for it's anti cheat for the past years but my friends begged me to play with them.
@@linuxnext I can't run cs2 online matches on linux sadly :(
@@RovelStars why is that?
Yeah I have played valorant a decent amount back in 2019 through 2020 but I had enough as it requires a lot of team work and I just don't have that in me as I get angry too much with it, my friends don't rlly like it either that much but if you like it then that's awesome
Wait, The Finals uses server side anticheat?
THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CASE EVERYWHERE!!
It works for Valve, it works for consoles and for The Finals, it seems.
What is so difficult about this?
Even with Windows (whenever I boot that outside of playing VR games) I hate having rootkit software running in the background.
Also wanted to buy Helldivers 2 for long now but Sony's plans for that stupid PSN account (lost mine years ago, so even my digital games on PS3 are basically locked) always pushes me away from it.
And all just because they are too lazy to figure something so PSN works without additional software. Like wtf?
Yes they never mention the anticheat they use as they think it will cause security risks for cheating which is true, you only see some patch notes of them saying they improved anticheat detection or patches for cheating
I think that's perfect way of updating the anticheat for their player base
A friend of mine even found their documents about how a human would cheat so they could train the ai for it lol
After seeing this server side anticheat get extremely better overtime in the finals shows how good this can be and other games should follow as it is privacy friendly then a kernel level anticheat
it also uses EAC client side (I think) but yea runs buttery smooth if you have a decent gpu
I wonder if the reasoning has more to do with how these anti cheat programs work on Windows rather than simply not enough Linux gamers. Some of them are super intrusive, down to the kernel level meaning it can track your mouse movements and keystrokes, They say it's to prevent cheating and real time game modification but I bet they just like that extra data telling them which money sinks are the most likely to attract your click so they can keep shoving them in front of your face. On Linux, they can't get that data due to the segmented security focused nature of the Linux kernel preventing their predatory game psychologists from having data to work with.
Or even more likely, because it's so open, people absolutely WILL look into the the kernel anti module, and make sure that it's not trying to pull anything shady, and find out that yes, they are doing shady shit.
@isaiahkern9434 well they could do a proprietary blob like what nvidia does with their proprietary drivers so this is possible without causing a risk necessarily
great video mate i think things on the way up especially with windows constantly shooting itself in the foot and the popularity of the steam deck
100%
If a game isn’t compatible with Steam Deck I don’t buy it even though I have a big fat Windows gaming PC as well.
I applaud this kind of integrity. I wish we could get everyone to see how messed up it is that these companies are intentionally degrading user experience in order to force people to buy and use hardware and software that we don't want and don't actually need.
No kernel-level anticheat working is a feature to me. I find that to be an inexcusable privacy invasion and definitely not worth the security risk. No game's leaderboard is worth this much to me and its nobody's business to rummage through my system like that. I don't even let AV software auto-upload samples.
Just makes me happy the newest game i play is BG3 and i don't play any online only / multiplayer games anymore.
Most of these new / big companies expect us to pay $70-150 for fewer features and less content than Sims 4 without any "DLC", while forcing us to be online in a single-player game... because "live service" then they copy EA by locking all of said missing features and content behind paywalls and "DLC".
"THIS NEEDS TO STOP" - good luck with that.
They say it's about "protecting their players" but it's just them not caring to let Linux players run the game because they're afraid of cheats. The anticheats already barely work on Windows, lmao.
It's funny that you talk about the finals here. I was in the discord server, and it was really awful. The window's community in the finals (not saying all of them of course) during the early days of the game were so outright scared of having Linux support enabled because of how many cheaters there were at the time and made many excuses and begged for the devs not to allow proton, so they also actively bullied and harassed people out of the server who asked for proton support. It got to the point where channels had to be temporarily locked down. I like to think that the people who were involved in these bullying campaigns were one of the reasons why proton support was added.
@@tristnnnn yeah, the discord mods are very nice to the Linux users and allow a separate Linux text channel where we can talk and help out each other
Its a disgrace seeing how windows users have such distaste for Linux users when they don't fully understand it
Game developer and Linux user here, I always support Linux (natively or proton) on my game projects.
With Linux, I learned to play games who really care about their players by allowing Linux support.
I got a discussion with Riot Vanguard Lead Developer and he's a very toxic guy who like insulting cheaters and altruistic players who deny Riot Vanguard on Twitter. (btw, he was a part of ESEA Launcher cryptominer scandal who are disguised into kernel anti-cheat)
The majority of client/kernel anti-cheat developers are from ex-cheat makers and hackers.
Anyway, play online games who allow playing on Linux and their DRM and Anti-Cheats works on Linux without any intrusive process, or Pirate them, seriously the developers don't care about Piracy.
So... This is my sentence:
"It's the law of large numbers, if you know you have 1% of cheaters on your game, even with the strongest intrusive kernel anti-cheat you will still get 1% of cheaters because the cheat makers has improved their cheat. But ! If you port your game on Linux, you will still get 1% of cheaters, because porting a game don't mean more cheaters." - Me
btw, you got one more subscriber ;)
I appreciate the knowledge :P
I am so glad that I can't stand multiplayer online games. I love local multiplayer and they work fine and single player games work fine.
I will say that it really sucks though for the people that like the games. I think these game companies should just collect security deposits and if you get banned for cheating you lose your money.
Thank u man it's seems like 2009 all over again, wish we had more content creator like you man , appreciate the spare head for Linux gaming
offer and demand issue - I have more scepticism with ring zero anti-cheats
Yeah, i guess linux desktop just needs more growth 🤷
@@linuxnext It's really a shame because my system goes like stink when it's all good.
Considering current events I don't want any of these low level anticheat programs!
I tell you what dude, I am switching to Linux in a month or two. I do not like the direction Microsoft is heading when it comes to privacy and also how little support older games get. I can't even install Area 51, Timeshift, or Sacrifice anymore. So the developers better support Linux because if they don't I am not buying their games. I rather not game at all if I am forced to play these new woke games on an operating system that doesn't respect your privacy. I.AM.DONE!
#IAmDone, should be a thing.
A problem with Linux that as an indie dev I have noticed is that making a native Linux app is harder because a game I'm working on for Windows and Linux Mint, works flawlessly on Mint and Ubuntu, partially on Debian, not at all on Arch and Arch-based distros, and partially on Puppy Linux with Wine.
In comparison, I have PC CD games from Windows 95 (Metal Gear Solid and SEGA Rally for example) which were made for Win 95, 98, 2000 and XP that still just work on Windows 10 and 11.
Linux's best feature, the fact it is open and has a plethora of choices is a double-edged sword since they all try to do what Windows does, but they all do it differently which causes compatibility issues among other Linux distros, nevermind different platforms like MacOS and Windows.
And the community wants us to just make everything open source so they can reverse engineer our game engines to work on other distros, which is fine, except my beta engine already got recompliled and has other people using it to make things rather than supporting my game/engine with a license, and this makes it undesirable to do so for us indie devs who just want to put food on the table and persue a hobby.
@@BlueEyedVibeChecker we don't want native games, proton solves this issue and you as a dev don't have to worry about it not working as valve takes care of it
All my games run through Proton except valves native games, no issues on latest stable proton for the majority of my games, some others need newer patches that haven't been tested fully by valve like some patches in the finals for example
I understand the distro part with native games but again just use proton and get it steamdeck verified that's all that is needed, if you use a anticheat you need to enable it or update the anticheat with the required SDK files for wine/proton to work appropriately
I wouldn't focus as much on the desktop side of things, there is a lot of niche desktops out there, focus on desktops that fully support a Wayland compositor like KDE plasma, gnome, system76 new cosmic rust desktop, tiling managers are also a niche thing to use and so that creates issues also but that is usually the devs over there who have to fix those problems not the games devs usually
That's where proton solves this again as you don't have worry about that
If you want to support Linux native tho then by all means try to but like you said there is a lot of things that need to be supported on all fronts and needing to update it a lot so that it works on majority of desktops and tiling managers
@@linuxnext Personally, I plan to use Wine for my games mostly since I plan to release physical versions that work on both Windows and Linux (Natively for Mint and Ubuntu-based distros, Wine as an extra measure for others)
But yeah, Valve have done wonders for us with Proton and I hope they continue with it for a long time.
I plan to stop dualbooting and switch to Mint full time once Windows 10 support is dropped, but as far as physical versions go, the native compatibility may still be a small issue for me in that regard.
@@BlueEyedVibeChecker yeah, understandable
Good luck on your Journey to Linux!
By then Linux mint should be Wayland ready so that you get some nice features like multi monitor refresh rates, hdr, freesync, screen tearing also if you want that :>
The Devs these days seem to only care about making money; which is also their double edge sword.
So many people want to play these live service games on linux and its not an issue with their anti-cheat. 90% of them are supported now with the exception of Vanguard, ricochet and the plethora of asian market ACs.
Cheats now are built different where many of them are not even ran on the same PC running the game, they use a specific "GPU" that dumps the ram from the host system, applys the cheats from the second PC and injects it back.
If I was Valve, I would demand that all games put on the store to support the Steam deck, Proton and Linux. Otherwise they get delisted and refunds given.
@@Cirav trueee
Here's my two cents on this. Playing devils advocate
On a technical level, anti cheat on Linux is almost outright impossible for game studios
The reason is exactly because the kernel is open source. It such a massive double edge sword. Windows being close sourced ironically makes it harder to make cheats compared to Linux. Linux anticheats can't trust the kernel because the kernel can be infected with cheats built-in in the first place.
You might wonder why no devs are allowing Linux compatibility with anticheats. It turns out with EasyAnticheat. Once you enable the Linux compatibility, it turns EAC from a kernel anticheat to a userspace anticheat. In other words, EAC is dumbed down to work like VAC.
Game studios aren't going to spend extra to work on server side anticheat because this has to be a per-game basis and it's just too expensive or too much work. At some point if the game is so competitive that cheaters are willing to do anything just to cheat, they aren't gonna risk it. They much rather buy an existing client side anticheat that works on every game.
It's actually much harder to write cheats in linux because of the closed sourced nature of windows and windows based apps, also the fact that linux by design locks most thing out from the kernel as a privacy/security measure.
But as far as the anti cheat getting somewhat dumbed down when activating linux support, I Don't know much about that one. EAC at the very least and battleye i think are both server side for the most part.
@@devynmounteer6696 The problem is unlike Windows, you can just edit the kernel source code with cheats and completely bypass any anticheat kernel modules/drivers. This is exactly what I mean a double edged sword.
Keep in mind, the kernel defends against outside attackers, but not “you”, the user. You have full control of everything.
Obviously cheat makers don't care anything about GPL. But anticheat companies can't do the same because they don't want to open source their stuff.
I think Valve should not allow games to be put on Steam that block Linux/Steam Deck on purpose.
Proton and Wine can be such a mess to understand.
If you seek help online typically people redirect you to they're use case and not your own.
Generally speaking wine can do just about anything including running mods, but it's a hot mess peicing it all together and nobody can really help you. Debugging is 95% self help.
I typically stick to lutris and wine because it's easier to dig into the guts of everything.
The easy way to solve anticheat issues would be games being cracked then using goldberg emulator and perhaps needing to develop a multiplayer mod for said game.
This is why I get annoyed when people complain about piracy. People don't pirate to avoid paying they pirate to add features to the game.
Baldur's Gate 3 has traditional LAN right in the game. No need for piracy, excessive modding and linux troubleshooting when developers do they're job.
With nexus mods new modding app this should make it easier for Linux users as the app will be natively supported with proton also
github.com/Nexus-Mods/NexusMods.App
But yeah modding is a bit of a learning curve for new users learning how proton works
@@linuxnext That app could end up with a lot of issues. Who knows how it will interact with modengine, mod organizer etc. and if it will play nice with pirated copies.
Unfortunately piracy is heavily attacked on forums.
I pay money for all games I play, but if features like LAN exist on pirated copies then both copies have value in my opinion.
Being able to have low latency on a local area network is amazing for multiplayer games.
I am happy I stopped caring about gaming after I sold my gaming PC. I do miss playing some Forza and Soul Calibur 6 / Dead or Alive 6, but duh... I just hate what the gaming industry has become.
These studios don't want to support them because that opens a whole new channel of bug reports for a probably vocal minority which doesn't represent as much sales. That being said, if they have the mean to identify someone using proton/wine/steamdeck... they should be able to selectively fix bugs. I understand not wanting to handle that support for monetary reason, but if you can identify the platform... you shouldn't straight block people from playing. That's truly shitty.
Of course most of them won't admit that's the reason and will fall back on the excuse that "linux allows cheating" (which is true but definitely not a big deal as cheaters also have easier means to cheat on windows).
Yeah, i mean when a game gets supported with proton its valves job to make the game work without many problems, when the finals got supported with proton their were a couple problems like the voice channel in the game would crash if you enabled it, avx 512 wasnt supported so the game would crash, the video lcd screens on the maps were broken, and the frame timing and fps were not that great, valve got to work and fixed those issues, now it runs pretty well if you look at the gameplay there are no issues with it.
These studios should be more inviting to allow valves engineers to help out with getting their games working with proton as they do wonders for the steamdeck and linux desktop space :)
Lets hope that this is getting better. Maybe we just need a little more market share (maybe 5% overall and 3% on steam?)
@@lohlundgames well 5% is "supposed" to be where investors give a crap about some certain thing that could be a good investment and same goes for certain software so things might change but who knows
Id like 10% lol but i know that aint happening any time soon
Only a matter of time...
@@linuxnext yeah, if we wait it will probably evolve for the better. We just have to give it some time now.
Yes I agree to all of it. I mean of course, I don't play that much of live service games and the one I really play (Final Fantasy XIV) does work on Linux wonderfully. But I had one case some weeks ago where I wanted to play a certain game I think it was called Tarisland, which didn't work. Therefor I wasn't able to play with em. I really appreciate devs who are working on making their games available on Linux through wine/proton or even make it natively. Thank you for sharing your words and I hope some devs will listen to it and change their ways of thinking about linux.
A short side question: Which software do you use to cut your videos? I tried to use Kdenlive but the rendering takes so long. Do you may have any tips on that?
I use Kdenlive also, I use software encoding with vp9 codec, I used to use h264 with vaapi which is hardware acceleration but that doesn't look that good, so I wait for a while depending on how long the video is
@@linuxnext Ah okay. Thank you a lot
The first dislike, the Game dev didn't like this Video XD. Great Video LinuxNext. I am still using my Nobara KDE Plasma 6 and I am loving it :)
To most game devs, supporting Linux is just more work so they weigh up if it's worth it. Linux gamers who dual-boot Windows could just not play blocked games, even on Windows, but as Linux still represents such a small (but growing) market share, that wouldn't have much of an impact. What WOULD have an impact is if Windows gamers were to say "Hang on, blocking Linux isn't cool, so we're not playing either" and stand with Linux gamers. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen as collective solidarity isn't common in gaming. The best thing any of us can do is to vocally encourage devs and publishers to support Linux, and raise the profile of Linux-supporting games through RUclips, streaming, social media etc.
Roblox has disabled wine/proton support a few months ago, so theres no way to play it on linux at all now. It even has virtual machine detection, so theres no luck even for that. It surprises me that there is no linux support when android has a native port and is based on the linux kernel!!
Waydroid, that's the only way
Someone actually bypassed that again
Locking it out is one thing but I don’t really care about Black hole live service games. Ghost not having the legends mode is a huge blow though
Having to have a windows partition exclusively for Destiny is just pain. I can't fully move on from windows until Destiny is either dead or Bungie pulls their heads out of their asses :/
I'm not sure why Rainbow Six Siege and Xdefiant are doing things differently from one another in regards to Linux when they're both Ubisoft games. Different teams to be sure, but Ubisoft nonetheless. Ubi needs to get their house in order.
@@SirCaco yep mark Rubin likes Linux so they support it, this is basically the people inside of the studios who have false notions about linux or straight up don't like it
I mean at least they are doing you a favor on not getting this dead on arrival game but it is depressing when you use Linux to play games but the devs or publishers refusing to let you use your preferred Linux distro
So, they refuse to change a few lines of code, to allow a wider player base? It's almost like these companies don't want to be successful.
For a anticheat like battleye or eac it is a simple as either ticking a box then send out the update to your depot which doesnt require the user to do a update in steam, so its literally over a server situation, if your using a older version of eac you need to manually grab the new sdk package and include the eac files
For battleye you need to contact them to enable it server side
Its rlly funny ngl, the easiest thing ever for that, but of course other games might be using extra server side things so this is where devs might not want to do it or the higher ups will deny it as they are skeptical about it even tho other studios allow it so
Yeah I was thinking about switching the Linux because the window uses way too much ram nowadays but I play destiny and didn't want to get banned trying to run it on Linux So I'm stuck with windows until the mind set changes towards Linux gaming, sony not supporting Linux is ironic their own os for their consoles is FreeBSD even though FreeBSD it's not Linux they are very similar
Studios who do this can be expected to make shit games anyway. I am not interested. They are leeches on society. They only make games to extract money. I have been playing games since the green monitors, so I can compare good to bad. It's only graphical fidelity for those games, nothing else that is good. Young people are bamboozled by the graphics and can't see the lack of quality. Go to indie games and you will be happier.
Linus users specifically DO NOT want special treatment, they want the gane conpany to turn a blind eye to people running their games in compatibility layers. If the game would run otherwise it feels like blatant discrimination to not allow them to play. Maybe port the anticheat or at least click the checkbox to allow linux users to play
Honestly I have mixed opinions on it, for me it's more about live service games. What it comes down to is cheating really, and I understand it from the devs point of view to an extent but also get how it can be frustrating from the Linux users perspective. Because Linux is open source, many different aspects of the OS can be exploited with kernel bypasses and etc. I seen an apex cheat that's works on Linux and it's free nor has it ever been detected. Kinda crazy and interesting to see. Maybe I'm wrong in what I'm saying, I'm not super educated on all of this.
@@pandaman21 its a double edge sword with Linux being open source, everyone can see the code but it also means anyone can help patch exploits, it's why security is rather decent on Linux, so if it came to cheating it would be more difficult in my opinion since more eyes would be upstreaming patches to a specific package that needs it to stop cheaters, lots of people don't see it that way and rather a private company with proprietary software to solve it when most don't and take ages to fix exploits of cheats under Windows
If Anti-Cheats want to support Linux like EAC and battleye they need to stop cheating, idk if they are doing that because they aren't open source
@linuxnext Yea anyone could help patch, but that means the AC would have to be open source and that, of course, can't work
Are you able to make a video guide for new beginners wanting to completely jumping over to Linux from Windows? I've been around a lonnnngggg while but I wouldn't know where to start.
yeah 100% i will, i already have tons of tutorials for different gaming guides and distro installs
They need to fix the damn anticheat on Linux and it would be perfect as all games run at 100+ FPS maxed out on Linux, which is better than windows on the same hardware, lol
two options for me present themselves partially due to a dead tpm and only asus tpm's are being sold in stores not msi and on like amazon there just some knockoff tpm's that apparently catch fire from reviews lovely
option 1 : i ditch windows for linux and try gaming on linux
option 2 : if linux gaming doesn't work out i install windows 10 again or try to bypass the tpm shit and run windows 11 but give the system never internet again and ill use a other system that is on linux and pirate everything i owned and plop it on the windows 10 after checking it for safety in a vm
i cant do the third option as i don't have a chipset for gpu passthrough
i hope option 1 works
also reason of no dual boot is the security part if i have to pirate again there is bound to be a viruses or keylogger or whatever shipped with the pirated games so even if i keep the windows boot offline due to linux being online it could still do its damage
i basically got out of needing to pirate and now i am apparently forced back into without a fricking choice unless i stop playing games all together now what jokester will tell you yes i have a gaming pc what does it run? run what it is a decoration what are you talking about
the good thing with pirating on linux is if you use flatpak then loading repacks is pretty safe because its containerized and you can give what permissions you like to that flatpak with a app like flatseal, bottles is a good tool for this if you wanna create separate bottles/windows prefixes and run certain software in it privately
why not let them block the game its like 2k or less people playing they just dont want people to play the game even its bad enough and dying , and happy bluescreen day
oh yeah concord isnt that good, just certain studios and companies continue to block proton so i thought id create this video and yah happy bluescreen day :P
I see this positively, this way they lose money and i keep playing dota2 that has awesome linux support.
I don't really get it, it's like cutting out xbox or ps5 from games that aren't exclusive and if cheating is such problem force linux people into a linux only server, at the end of day all your doing is cutting off people who want to play and pay for your game
frrr
Thank God the only multiplayer games I play are fighting games and all work on Linux.
they cant even detect cheats on windows, gotta wonder if someone is paying to block linux. You would think their greed would at least motivate them to not block linux users.
@@p4l4d1n7 it could be someone internally that is saying all the crap about Linux not being as intrusive as Windows lol, so they C a n t BAn C hE aters which is a load of bullcrap :D, I do get why a studio wouldnt tho because the market share is to low, even if there are a couple million Linux desktop users they just don't see that as worthy enough, even if valve handles maintaining the game like they do with every other game running through proton
Trust me, that game is not worth playing at all even if you have windows as your main os
Why is it always the big studios who dont let you play on linux
Thats why i still have windows
Money :)
If linux desktop market share was like 50% or some crap then these studios would give a damn about it
@@linuxnext Yep
its around 2-4% but after that windows outage i think linux is gonna be a little popular
also easy anti cheat works on linux i tried it out on a game called polygon
@@linuxnext yep excatly but what if in a few years linux reaches 15% or smth
@@Totallynotmwa then linux will be a contender, in the business world 5% is where companies start to take notice in a products growth so 15% would be wild haha
@@linuxnext yep lol
Heh, and someone was trying to gaslight me into thinking this inoperative system can run every game lol
@@revival_of_the_canned_justice I'd say majority, 95℅ of games will work, only a couple won't work
@@linuxnext I won't fall for that again
you wont fall for that again, but fall for a rootkit anti cheat that who knows what is stealing from your computer, and selling that to who knows. yeah smart move my dude, really a 300 IQ move.
Should steam just start delisting smaller games if they purposely dont support steam deck? My vote yes steam should delist them.
I think they should update their TOS for developers that says if they upload a game on the platform they cannot block steamdeck support or risk delisting the game as a whole
While that might seem like a good solution, I smell this could turn into an anti-trust situation
@@kuollutkissa your right, but that’s only if it isn’t curated and expressly stated in the TOS by steam.
@@kuollutkissa any ways you can think of to bypass that? Mostly the European Union is where I think the problem could occur.
@@ZeFoxii I dunno, unfortunately. The only idea I have is to argue that breaking Linux compatibility hurts competition, but I'm not a lawyer and idk how that'd go
So what you're saying is I have to use a different emulator lol
@@waffle3632 😂
If you ask me proton developers don't care what developer thinks and will update proton accordingly to work with games that don't support it by default because when it comes to proton none of developers actualy support it but they won't say it and as new games arrive it shouldn't matter if developers don't support proton or not when proton will be updated to catch up.
yeah thats true, this is mostly about anticheat crap tho
@@linuxnext yeah, anticheat crap causes whole lot of problems with wine in general regardles of what you use be it lutris, steam's proton and so on. All implementations of wine have same problems.
If steamm wasnt pushing steamdeckos we would have gotten nothing.
sad
true
Developers are just lazy and put blame on something that isn't true and they don't want to fix a problem that only Linux users might have. There are games that seriously don't need anticheat like Roblox.
Linux doesn't prevent game developers from building kernel anticheats. They're just too lazy really. They could just release some sanctified kernels for the major desktop distros, then use TPM2 to verify it's signature.
Yeah there just lazy lol and market share is low so costs too much with almost no return :/
to be honest i'm glad they don't. i really don't want kernel spyware on my linux. i'm quite comfortable without telemetry and spyware on my linux and i wouldn't want to ruin it for some dumb game. kernel level anti cheats should be a crime. make something server-side -_-
@@GraveUypo I'm in the same boat personally, but honestly, I doubt kernel level anticheat will ever disappear. People want to play competitive games even if they necessitate a rootkit, so Linux will eventually need to make an effort to get them ported over.
EasyAntiCheat is kernel level and support linux. Games with eac dont support linux because they dont want, simple as that.
Do you think Star Wars Outlaws and or God of War Ragnarok will be playable on Linux?
Well star wars outlaws better as the ubisoft overlay works flawlessly under proton, but with the new god of war this may require the psn overlay and that currently doesnt work with proton but they will probs go the same route as they did with ghost of tsushima where you can play just the overlay will be disabled
I'm just going to say, take a look at the game War Thunder. Its not just on Windows, but Linux OS X ,PS4 and 5 and xbox as well as windows. Yes Linux is very game-able, and Steam not needed either.
Lol, yes i know this game, not a fan of war games, but if you enjoy it then thats all that matters
I'll tell you what I think:
I'm 33 years old, I've been using Linux since 2006, when we all used MSN Messenger to communicate.
I discovered Linux in 2006 with Ubuntu 6.06, and already at that time I made a choice, I only use what runs on Linux, everything else doesn't exist.
now in 2024 I look back andI mature you and that's what I believe, if it's not accessible on Linux I don't use it
say I was right, Linux will always be the best alternative, but we the users decide where the balance shifts.
Stop complaining about what doesn't work or what they don't allow us to make work, on the contrary, we appreciate and love where we have arrived with free software
Yes i agree, this isnt about free software tho, its about studios simply not enabling their anticheat with proton, someone has to talk about it more as i dont see it that much, only redditors complaining about it
Im fine not playing destiny or r6, there are plenty of other games to play and my friends don't play those games either so im chillin but for others its a stop gap where they wont try out linux because of one of those games, i care about linux desktop and want to see it continue to grow which it is
I am extremely grateful that i can use linux daily without windows in sight :)
Yep, and there's no shortage of game options 🤷
pretty dog ngl
lol concord isnt this game dead on arrival because of DEI?
yeah basically
don't support games, that don't support linux.
what? where's my comment? what did i do wrong? i don't understand. -.-
@@Buchnerd_Souly just wait, sometimes youtube takes a bit lol
@@linuxnext it was also deleted in my YT data as well, it happened to me in the past and i always thought it was deleted by the channel owner.
@@Buchnerd_Souly Did you post an URL?
@@-_ch40s_ no, but i complained about M$ 🤣
whatever you said that got deleted about m$ i agree lol
How can you have 120-150FPS on this map? Teach me sen pi.
I have a ryzen 7600 lol, am5 runs like a dream on the finals, before i had a 3700x it averaged 60fps lol
@@linuxnext i have a ryzen 5800x / rtx2080 and i get around 75-110 fps on that map. Done everything on CachyOS to squeeze every drop of it :'). Windows is worse
@--ic0n-1- yeah for some reason the finals rlly likes am5, im running all low except textures and view distance at epic, 1080p, no upscaling either
Im running cachy os aswell with the bore scheduler
Could be that my amd gpu runs pretty well on linux also thanks to RADV in mesa
I still have really bad experiences with Linux Gaming (no live service, from old to new games). Even when the game is first working fine, after a couple of hours a special menu is causing crashes, the Shaders are broken or my save games are destroyed.
After months desperately trying gaming on Linux, I use Windows only for gaming now.
Rlly odd as i have multiple systems both amd and nvidia that i test and dont have these problems. If you could specify the games that have problems id love to know
That's strange. I used to have a few problems about two years ago, but these days it's very rare. And I vary a lot from AAA games to old games on GOG, Steam and Epic. Do you check steamdb for problems? Maybe you got an OS that offered old Mesa drivers & Linux kernel.
stupid for them to this... but at least its a crappy game this time
At least Concord is a terrible game, but when it comes to everything else then yeah, it is a shame.
Dude linux represents such a small portion of all gamers. All the people developing cheat programs are gonna do it on windows. Who the hell is gonna completely switch their OS to use wall hacks? I suspect the real reason is their kernel anticheat does more than it says (data collection) or they don't want to bother with bug reports from linux users. But tbh this makes no sense bc they could just simply ignore Linux users and say good luck if you wanna run it on wine.
By keeping away live service games from Linux they are doing us a favor. And DEI games are the last thing we wish to find browsing games on Linux: (Destiny 2, Concord, ... etc.)
Nobody cares about Concord, I only heard about it once and it's already dead now. Worst looking game ever looks ai generated.
yeah but its not about that, I agree with you tho
Don't be confused, Windows is paying the gaming companies to stop proton support. I can almost guarantee it. Linux is getting more popular and Microsoft can see the writing on the wall. I would bet my left toe they are trying to stop Linux growth!
I wasted houndreds of hours trying to use linux productively. Then gnome 3 came out and I gave up... Every distro I install has problems, with audio, with Vsync, with stutter, missing driver features, youtube stutters, vlc sucks, no other good video players, no good music players, houndreds of missing programs that people use (not just photoshop)... Every update breaks things and you cant even install programs without updating. So yeah... Win7 for life XD
mpv is better that vlc. When you watch youtube, does your CPU spike? If so, your GPU is not being used. Look to download mp4 files and watch them with mpv (uses accel).
Gnome 3 came out a very long time ago lol, i dont use vlc i use haruna, good music player? You have elisa, g4music, amberol, stutter doesnt exist anymore with the majority of hardware, unsure what stutter you even mean tbh, sure there are missing programs but there alternatives, every update breaks things? Well thats just false. Maybe if you use arch then yeah it can happen because its rolling, you can install programs easily, try flatpak sometime. Is this bait? Steam doesnt even support windows 7 anymore so this doesnt make sense at all unless you dont use steam at all
Linux has solved all of those problems, so give it a try again instead of mentioning issues from 2011.
Its funny as I'm literally playing the finals, a fps shooter on linux that is supposed to only run on windows. With over 130 to 150fps with my audio working great and my desktop is working perfectly.
Ragebait ngl -5/10
@@linuxnext I stopped using it long time ago yes. But I tried using it every now and then for years now. Every time I install and spend time setting things up there are numerous problems that I dont wanna tolerate. For exsample in in mint you could use utility for adjusting saturation "libvibrant" but on same laptop manjaro wouldnt recognise that gpu supports CTM and you couldnt use it. Its probbably different drivers. Problems with dependencies all the time, you wanna install steam after os install. No, problems with keys or something, lets mess with repositories and try to update keys... Just terrible, canot leave PC off for few days and then quickly install something without downloading 2GB update first.... Idk. I run win 7, havent updated it for years and it works like a dream. I know that it slowly losses support from dwvelopers but PCs that cant run dx12 dont need to update anyway... I dont use steam really.
Welp i dont have the same experience so have fun with windows 7
@@bobmcbob4399 All of them are half functional, you should really have five different players installed and jump around them when something doesnt work on one of them.
Begging from Linux users needs to stop. Just take out your wallets and pay hansomely for games that you like and do support Linux. The true problem is that we have a reputation that we prefer free solutions to paid ones and this puts off some developers.
loool that's so funny to me. this DEI game deliberately exclude people from playing it? hahahh! Specially funny because if they let you play, it might double the player base from 1 guy to 2!
😭😭😭
Yeah imagine allowing dei but you block linux 🙂
i tried linux and regreted it instantly
skill issue
Linux is not Windows and if your not willing to learn its differences then you will have a bad time. That said if you only tried one distro that maybe many people talk about but is technically for more advanced users, yes your time maybe rough *cought Arch*. Instead you should try Linux Mint EDGE edition, i use it for gaming and i have not once needed to touch a terminal. Its not hard, just different, wouldn't be anymore difficult than going from Windows to MacOS
@pelehosmusic Exactly.