French Dueling Swords: épée de combat & the origin of épée FENCING
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- The épée de combat was the real sharp version of the épée now found in Olympic fencing. Here we look at some originals, and talk about French dueling tradition.
▼3 extra EXCLUSIVE videos each month on PATREON, which make this channel possible:
/ scholagladiatoria
▼Facebook & Twitter updates, info, memes and fun:
/ historicalfencing
/ scholagladiato1
▼Schola Gladiatoria HEMA - sword fighting classes in the UK:
www.swordfightinglondon.com
▼Matt Easton's website & Pinterest:
www.matt-easton.co.uk/
www.pinterest.co.uk/matt_east...
▼Easton Antique Arms - antique swords for sale:
www.antique-swords.co.uk/
#épée #fencing #frenchhistory
![NOSFERATU - Official Teaser Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b59rxDB_JRg/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Match That Changed Fencing Forever [Epee]](/img/1.gif)
The idea that the epee de combat was *only* for first blood duels is a bit of a *HEMA myth*. Its a bit more complex than that. Jacobo Gelli who recorded 3918 duels between 1879 and 1899, noted that between epee and sabre the most deaths were caused by epees, or as the Italians call the spada da duello. The lethality of epees were the main reason why the Italians according to gelli propagated the light dueling sabre - and the stark difference between the Italian dueling code and the French one. In the Italian dueling code one could always avail oneself to a sabre, but could not force an opponent to duel with an epee, as opposed to the French where it was the inverse, due to the Italians believing that sabres cut were sufficient for honour to be satisfied, but that thrusts were too lethal for family men defending their honor. The is another aspect to this: Gelli also tried to collect information deaths he suspected were due to epee dueling but was stonewalled by relatives of the deceased. Duels of the third offence grade, sensitive ones to do with close family, that is to say to the death were rarely if ever reported in the 'vertenze' or dueling issues published in newspapers. This is because Italy like France was a catholic country and death by dueling was still a mortal sin - Omicidio/Suicidio/duello as the old refrain went. So in order to get a church burial and not to undergo the indignity of excommunication many duels that ended in death went unreported and explained away as 'tragic accidents' . I aways believed that this weird belief that epees were done 'scratches' was driven primarily by anglo saxon observers such as Mark Twain, who after viewing one or two duels in france took an erroneous view of lethality of dueling in europe which has clouded preconceptions ever since.
Thanks for this. Really interesting and definitely deserves me revisiting the subject in the future.
I am.no expert. According to Internet Videos, last known french Duel was either 1968 or 1969, an old newsreel exists. Being german, Brittas boyfriend, but no Accademic, I know Accademic Fencing only from ,hearsay'. Here fencing was popular among germanspeaking university students. The weapon used was arround 1800 called , Pariser ', very similar to this epee de Combat, but with a flat, round disc as handprotection. After Napoleonic wars, many german students wanted either parlamentaric Monarchy or Republik, so 1820s/ 1830s german rulers don' t liked students and their fencing. A series of deadly thrust accidents in late 1820s caused, that german rulers wanted to forbid students fencing, but a not so oldfashioned ruler ordered His fencing master, to create a lesser Dangerous fencing Style, It is cutbased, and still practiciced. It hast still components of a Duel, for example the seconders, but IT IS No more a Duel. It is only allowed because in early 1950s, head of Accademic fencing groups promised First German Federal President: We now No more allow real Duells.
As far as i know, in german Duel ruleset, a honourable Duel wound in cutfencing had to be 2,5 cm (1") or longer,, in thrustfencing the Triangle of Blade had to be visible.
I do remember reading something similar about duels in the Russian Army in the late 19th century - that duels with sabers to the first blood were more prevalent because of the lower accident rate
Yeah. Epees were not "possibily lethal". They were extremely lethal. Due to the sharp point, in the heat of combat, it was very likely for an epee to penetrate 15-20cm in the opponent's body without the wielder feeling any resistance. In 19th century, to treat that kind of wound, was VERY difficult. In the belly, or in a lung, even a shallower wound was a death sentence.
The scratch of a "sciabola da terreno" was way less serious, even if there were still deaths, due to the dueling saber being able to thrust as well.
@@neutronalchemist3241 : This lethal lungwound in thrustfencing was by noted german students called a ,Lungenfuchser'.
I think the reason for the guard is more tied to the reason for the Epee vs. the foil, especially in the French school. I think it's somewhere in Egerton Castle's "Schools and Masters of the Fence" where he recounts the problems pure French school foil fencing had once the dueling with real weapons, with the Epee being the response. e.g French masters being killed in duels with aggressive and enthusiastic beginners. So, the classical "parry-riposte" with the foil where a light beating parry and then riposte...leads to a double-hit against the untrained beginner. Who reflexively lunges into the riposte for a nasty double hit to both. In Epee, your parry and riposte now has to control and bind the opponent's blade so you can safely lunge in, often using the guard as part of the binding technique. This is still a massive part of modern Epee technique, when all attacks (not just ripostes) need to either be very quick, or control the opponent's blade while attacking, often using the blade and guard in a bind to avoid the double hit.
Yes, it also protects the hand and fingers, but I think that is more a practical thing, with the hand and arm as part of the target, as opposed to classical foil of the time where the emphasis was on the killing thrust (torso and I think face as well once the mask came into use). Yet again, something that could catch out a high-level student of the "French school" who is not used to attacks on the hand or sword arm. Even Aldo Nadi's (Olympic Champion) recount of his 20th century dual, he is caught out against a much weaker opponent with an opening double hit as the other guy slams is blade down on his guard as Nadi lunged in, whipping over his guard and hitting him in the crook of his arm for a "double touch". He recalls his anger at this and goes on to score the next x number of hits before the other guy concedes before he gets killed. (note: so there were "flicks" in real duels lol)
Lastly, Epees were often fitted with "Point D'Arret" towards the end of the dueling period. So, this enabled the fencer to train with his dueling weapon in preparation for the duel and the take it off for the actual duel. Effectively training with the weapon to be used in the fight.
I guess in summary, at least from my fencing background and my reading, the large guard is more about what the Epee is to the foil (e.g the dueling sword) which revolves around the differences between foil fencing of the 19th and early 20th century and the changes in technique required to win and survive the duel. And the fundamental problem of avoiding the "double hit".
Italian grip epees did have - or had - the crossbar and finger rings of the rapier. The crossbar didn't protrude beyond the guard but it was there.
8:26 I like the idea of honour being sacrificed
Gavin should do audiobooks, he has a nice and calm voice.
The episodes with guest are nice sometimes to hear someone else's thoughts and ideas about these things. Not that I don't enjoy uncle Matt on his own. 😉
hard agree - I think it’s a great direction to take with the channel!
native french (Québec) - Mat, fantastatic pronunciation for the "Épée de combat", note that the "combat" pronounced without the ending T is actually the correct pronunciation.
Get a life!
I've been hoping for an epee d combat video for months now. Very exciting!
In Dutch we call the smallsword, hofdegen which means court epee. And a modern Epee a degen. So linguestically we draw a direct line to the Epee from the smallsword.
I could get behind calling olympic fencers degen. as well /j
You may already have the book "The Living Sword: A Fencer's Autobiography". Aldo Nadi describes his dual using and Epee in Italy. It even has some pictures with bandages on their arms. Great Video!!!
Intro: Hi Matt, excellent video and lovely to see a pair of epee d’combat especially! I defer to those whose French and knowledge of 19th cen. French sources is superior to mine, so do correct me if I’m on the wrong track, but I have wondered if the development of this unique weapon was the result of several things.
Paragraph 1: First, with the disappearance of the sword as an item of dress, and the rise of foil as a pursuit of it own (what we often refer to now as academic or salle fencing), the tool once used to train people for smallsword no longer imparted the same conservative training.
Paragraph 2: Second, while the duel disappeared in many areas of Europe, it remained in others, notably France and Italy, but for the former pistols, at least for a time, often won out over the sword. Foil play became the norm. An important work in examing the rise of the epee qua epee is Baron César de Bazancourt’s _Secrets of the Sword_ (1862; reprinted 1875; Eng. ed. 1900), in which he laments the state of fencing instruction and the danger it presents to those in actual need of ability when called out. What he wished, in my reading anyway, was a return to the ethos of smallsword, that is, of sword training which increased one’s chances of survival if not victory in a duel.
Paragraph 3: Foil, then as now, had developed conventions that were artful, but dangerous. A beautifully made coupé in an elegant lunge might earn admiring golf claps from one’s fellow salle mates, but was likely to earn one a spike in the arm, chest, or face on the ground. The answer was what we call epee-a triangular blade, like those on many smallswords, only longer, and a larger guard to prevent too easily achieved satisfaction by easy shots to the hand (I’m inclined to think you are spot on about that). As I explain to my students, foil represents the game developed out of smallsword and which became a genteel pursuit; epee was an effort to return foil to smallsword to meet the specific needs of those still dueling with swords (excluding sabre here of course).
Paragraph 4: In re Italy, in the southern school epee, as such, as I understand it, was the final form rapier took. The 19th cen./early 20th cen. _spada_ was in most ways like its predecessor only lighter. Parise mentions a French minister of sport who remarked that the Italians had the advantage over his own people as the arm they train with needed only a change of blade, but was otherwise used in the same manner, versus French foil and epee. The rise of the Olympics, and other international events, did much to homogenize things, and while there remained and remain differences between traditional French and traditional Italian practice, the modern game is more an amalgam of the two schools, or was, before Hungarian, German, and other adaptations took root. If so, then epee, as such, had sort of parallel development until the modern sport.
NB: apologies to those who wanted footnotes or an apparatus criticus.
Post Scriptum: it’s fucking youtube-you want formal essay format, you’re in the wrong place.
Very interesting information, thanks
USE FREAKING PARAGRAPHS !!!
That anyone would bother reading whatever you wrote is a miracle.
To much coffee this morning? While you aren’t necessarily wrong, 450 words is 450 words regardless of how many paragraphs the author installed. Why friggen get upset about it. The information is the same is it not?
frontenac, really? Great video, some good comments (apart from your bits), and this is all you have to add? Really? Typed this on a phone, not a bloody pc. If you don’t want to read it, then don’t.
Really? I was defending you and trying to reply to frontec. Maybe try reading what I wrote again without the bias. Or don’t. Whatever
fun stuff! thanks for your amazing and free content
Thank you both for the video ⚔️
Lol. Thanks. Just helped my diagnose a sword I have in my collection. It's a G. Pion from circa 1880. It's a great little thing. Feels ace in the hand.
Another question I did not know I had answered thoroughly with context. Thank you.
Great to see you again, Gavin, even if it only on a screen. Hope you are doing well. Cheers mate. Harry
Fascinating. I would love to hear more on the colichemarde part; very little talk about that where I've been able to look.
I dabbled in fencing many years ago and the instructor let me try the epee instead of starting with the foil. A needle point would have gone right through any light clothing and my heart and killed me....dead. It is such a fast weapon there is very little anyone can do to stop one. Deadly.
The myth of first blood comes from duels often being stopped on first blood to assess injuries and decide whether the duel needed to continue or not.
It didn't always mean the first person to draw blood won, and there are many instances where the duel was considered to be over until it was discovered the other party was also bleeding. First blood was more like first to draw blood without also being stabbed themselves.
'Colonel Ducroix knelt down and unlocked the case, taking out a pair of twin swords, which took the sunlight and turned to two streaks of white fire. He offered one to the Marquis, who snatched it without ceremony, and another to Syme, who took it, bent it, and poised it with as much delay as was consistent with dignity.
Then the Colonel took out another pair of blades, and taking one himself and giving another to Dr. Bull, proceeded to place the men.
Both combatants had thrown off their coats and waistcoats, and stood sword in hand. The seconds stood on each side of the line of fight with drawn swords also, but still sombre in their dark frock-coats and hats. The principals saluted. The Colonel said quietly, “Engage!” and the two blades touched and tingled.
When the jar of the joined iron ran up Syme’s arm, all the fantastic fears that have been the subject of this story fell from him like dreams from a man waking up in bed. He remembered them clearly and in order as mere delusions of the nerves-how the fear of the Professor had been the fear of the tyrannic accidents of nightmare, and how the fear of the Doctor had been the fear of the airless vacuum of science.
The first was the old fear that any miracle might happen, the second the more hopeless modern fear that no miracle can ever happen.
But he saw that these fears were fancies, for he found himself in the presence of the great fact of the fear of death, with its coarse and pitiless common sense.
He felt like a man who had dreamed all night of falling over precipices, and had woke up on the morning when he was to be hanged.
For as soon as he had seen the sunlight run down the channel of his foe’s foreshortened blade, and as soon as he had felt the two tongues of steel touch, vibrating like two living things, he knew that his enemy was a terrible fighter, and that probably his last hour had come.
He felt a strange and vivid value in all the earth around him, in the grass under his feet; he felt the love of life in all living things. He could almost fancy that he heard the grass growing; he could almost fancy that even as he stood fresh flowers were springing up and breaking into blossom in the meadow-flowers blood red and burning gold and blue, fulfilling the whole pageant of the spring.
And whenever his eyes strayed for a flash from the calm, staring, hypnotic eyes of the Marquis, they saw the little tuft of almond tree against the sky-line. He had the feeling that if by some miracle he escaped he would be ready to sit for ever before that almond tree, desiring nothing else in the world.
But while earth and sky and everything had the living beauty of a thing lost, the other half of his head was as clear as glass, and he was parrying his enemy’s point with a kind of clockwork skill of which he had hardly supposed himself capable.
Once his enemy’s point ran along his wrist, leaving a slight streak of blood, but it either was not noticed or was tacitly ignored.
Every now and then he riposted, and once or twice he could almost fancy that he felt his point go home, but as there was no blood on blade or shirt he supposed he was mistaken. Then came an interruption and a change.
At the risk of losing all, the Marquis, interrupting his quiet stare, flashed one glance over his shoulder at the line of railway on his right.
Then he turned on Syme a face transfigured to that of a fiend, and began to fight as if with twenty weapons. The attack came so fast and furious, that the one shining sword seemed a shower of shining arrows.
Syme had no chance to look at the railway; but also he had no need. He could guess the reason of the Marquis’s sudden madness of battle-the Paris train was in sight.
But the Marquis’s morbid energy over-reached itself. Twice Syme, parrying, knocked his opponent’s point far out of the fighting circle; and the third time his riposte was so rapid, that there was no doubt about the hit this time. Syme’s sword actually bent under the weight of the Marquis’s body, which it had pierced.
Syme was as certain that he had stuck his blade into his enemy as a gardener that he has stuck his spade into the ground. Yet the Marquis sprang back from the stroke without a stagger, and Syme stood staring at his own sword-point like an idiot. There was no blood on it at all.
There was an instant of rigid silence, and then Syme in his turn fell furiously on the other, filled with a flaming curiosity.
The Marquis was probably, in a general sense, a better fencer than he, as he had surmised at the beginning, but at the moment the Marquis seemed distraught and at a disadvantage.
He fought wildly and even weakly, and he constantly looked away at the railway line, almost as if he feared the train more than the pointed steel.
Syme, on the other hand, fought fiercely but still carefully, in an intellectual fury, eager to solve the riddle of his own bloodless sword.
For this purpose, he aimed less at the Marquis’s body, and more at his throat and head. A minute and a half afterwards he felt his point enter the man’s neck below the jaw. It came out clean.
Half mad, he thrust again, and made what should have been a bloody scar on the Marquis’s cheek. But there was no scar.
For one moment the heaven of Syme again grew black with supernatural terrors. Surely the man had a charmed life.
But this new spiritual dread was a more awful thing than had been the mere spiritual topsy-turvydom symbolised by the paralytic who pursued him.
The Professor was only a goblin; this man was a devil-perhaps he was the Devil!
Anyhow, this was certain, that three times had a human sword been driven into him and made no mark.
When Syme had that thought he drew himself up, and all that was good in him sang high up in the air as a high wind sings in the trees.
He thought of all the human things in his story-of the Chinese lanterns in Saffron Park, of the girl’s red hair in the garden, of the honest, beer-swilling sailors down by the dock, of his loyal companions standing by.
Perhaps he had been chosen as a champion of all these fresh and kindly things to cross swords with the enemy of all creation.
“After all,” he said to himself, “I am more than a devil; I am a man. I can do the one thing which Satan himself cannot do-I can die,” and as the word went through his head, he heard a faint and far-off hoot, which would soon be the roar of the Paris train.
He fell to fighting again with a supernatural levity, like a Mohammedan panting for Paradise. As the train came nearer and nearer he fancied he could see people putting up the floral arches in Paris; he joined in the growing noise and the glory of the great Republic whose gate he was guarding against Hell.
His thoughts rose higher and higher with the rising roar of the train, which ended, as if proudly, in a long and piercing whistle. The train stopped.
Suddenly, to the astonishment of everyone the Marquis sprang back quite out of sword reach and threw down his sword. The leap was wonderful, and not the less wonderful because Syme had plunged his sword a moment before into the man’s thigh.
“Stop!” said the Marquis in a voice that compelled a momentary obedience. “I want to say something.”
“What is the matter?” asked Colonel Ducroix, staring. “Has there been foul play?”
“There has been foul play somewhere,” said Dr. Bull, who was a little pale. “Our principal has wounded the Marquis four times at least, and he is none the worse.”
The Marquis put up his hand with a curious air of ghastly patience.'
www.gutenberg.org/files/1695/1695-h/1695-h.htm#chap10
'The fire faded, and the slow, strong stars came out. And the seven strange men were left alone, like seven stone statues on their chairs of stone. Not one of them had spoken a word.
They seemed in no haste to do so, but heard in silence the hum of insects and the distant song of one bird.
Then Sunday spoke, but so dreamily that he might have been continuing a conversation rather than beginning one.
“We will eat and drink later,” he said. “Let us remain together a little, we who have loved each other so sadly, and have fought so long.
I seem to remember only centuries of heroic war, in which you were always heroes-epic on epic, iliad on iliad, and you always brothers in arms.
Whether it was but recently (for time is nothing), or at the beginning of the world, I sent you out to war.
I sat in the darkness, where there is not any created thing, and to you I was only a voice commanding valour and an unnatural virtue.
You heard the voice in the dark, and you never heard it again. The sun in heaven denied it, the earth and sky denied it, all human wisdom denied it. And when I met you in the daylight I denied it myself.”
Syme stirred sharply in his seat, but otherwise there was silence, and the incomprehensible went on.
“But you were men. You did not forget your secret honour, though the whole cosmos turned an engine of torture to tear it out of you.
I knew how near you were to hell.
I know how you, Thursday, crossed swords with King Satan, and how you, Wednesday, named me in the hour without hope.” '
www.gutenberg.org/files/1695/1695-h/1695-h.htm#chap15
You finally gave the man a mic😅! Thank you
Good to know. Thank you.
Interesting to see the evolution of the thrusting sword!!!
Thank you Matt! Love your channel!
Matt, looking at the development from sidesword to epee de combat, or other developments from blade to blade: When does one type become the next? Can you tell us more about "transitional" swords, that are neither quite here nor there?
For example, is there a 34-inch sidesword somewhere that you would still classify as such?
I actuely inherreted one of these from my grandpa. Mine bassicly has a disk that's folded down a bit like a knuckel bow, but sadly the point got snapped off at somepoint.
Great video on a very interesting topic! 🤺
Please if possible could you do more videos about this classical period (19th to early 20th century) on French and Italian dueling swords, including some famous duel examples?
Were also Fencing Masters challenged to duels with dueling swords?
Were there annually public fencing tournaments before the first Olympic Games in Europe where fencers from the different Schools (French, Italian or others) faced each other?
Thank you very much in advance 🙇♂
On March 6 1898, in Rome, died, fighting his 33th duel, the member of the Italian parliament Felice Cavallotti, 56 yo.
The killer was a journalist, publisher, and a member of parliament himself, Ferruccio Macola, 37 yo.
The duel happened after a denigration campaign orchestrated by Macola on his newspaper, that practically forced Cavallotti (that, as it's evident by the number of duels, was used to solve controversies that way) to challenge him.
Cavallotti had fought most of his previous duels with the dueling saber ("sciabola da terreno"), but the conditions set by the two for their duel were very harsh. They not only would have used the "spada" (epee de combat) that was more likely lethal than the saber (because the piercing wounds were more difficult to treat than the saber's cuts), but also the "guantone da sciabola" a protective gauntlet that covered all the forearm, so preventing that a minor wound to the armed forearm could stop the duel.
The doctor, that was present, along the seconds and a notary, was instructed to stop the duel only for serious wounds.
At the third assault, Cavallotti was hit in the mouth, and died in few minutes by blood loss with the carotid artery cut.
Macola was condemned to 13 months, then reduced to 7 in appeal, and then pardoned. Duels were formally prohibited, but largely accepted. An officer of the armed forces that, seriously challenged, had declined to fight, would have risked his rank (that's also why the choice of the instruction method for the Army Officer's fencing school, in 1883, had been a serious affair ).
The swords (4, there were spares) and one of the gauntlets used in the duel had been preserved in the criminological museum of the Italian Police. I can't post links, but it's enough to search for "duello cavallotti spade" to find the picture. The mortal one is the second from the right in the expositor. The hit slightly bent the point.
Macola died, suicide, in 1910.
He's definitely got some interesting bits for show and tell
Great video, thanks! I own a lovely pair of somewhat later French dueling epees, including the hardware for their scabbards (!). While they are VERY similar to modern sport epees (a weapon I fenced competitively for 20+ years), there are a few differences. The guards, grips and overall blade profile are virtually identical, but...
The guards are smaller than modern ones, the blades are completely straight (a bigger difference that you might think!) and - most importantly - there is MUCH more metal out near the tip. In order to stay rigid in the thrust, these epees remain relatively thick all the way out to the tip, while modern examples are much thinner in order to flex in the outermost third. This puts more mass near the tip, and moves the center of balance out from the hand.
A minor difference, but one that is immediately obvious to the seasoned epee fencer!
And one unsupported theory about the larger guards; these designs appear at a period when no one was wearing swords on a daily basis. Larger guards have always been more safe, but pragmatic concerns of wearability outweigh hand protection. If one doesn't need to wear the sword at the side, guards can get bigger and bulkier.
I am interested about how these were stored and transported, on a related note. I own a pair that had scabbards, but that seems to be rare. I've seen cased pairs as well, but it seems like these are usually found "loose," like these great examples.
Dude I was literally just thinking that you should do a video on epees. Then I saw this posted two minutes ago.
Can't remember the name of it now, but there was the German tradition of duelling where the object was to aquire a nice scar to the face. I believe that lasted well into the twentieth century.
In French "épée" just means (straight) sword.
All swords are épées (or else it's a saber, a "sabre") .
A rapier is an épée too :)
Another great video Matt! I have a French 1756 Sergeant's smallsword with a blade very similar to those Epee blades. The blade is 34" trefoil measured from the quillon...with an extremely fine point. The last 8" have almost no taper and is very thin...like a spike! The blade is unlike most smallsword blades...but clearly original to the hilt. The snapshot of the forte at 2:08 is similar with the hollow grind not going completely to the edge...but not identical either. It makes me wonder if the 1756 blade or ones like it were the template for the later epee de combat blades. The hilt is classic French military smallsword of steel with an ebony fuse grip. Anyway...I'd be interested to know your thoughts on this...and if you have any additional info on the French 1756 Sergeant's smallswords in general. Thanks Matt.
In German a smallsword and an épée are both called Degen. This clearly shows the evolution from smallsword to modern épée.
So are Rapiers, if I recall correctly. The German "Degen" is a weird catch-all word, really. And then further separated into Haudegen, Stichdegen, Kavalleriedegen, Offiziersdegen... it is not very precise, is it?
@@hanno_t Not it is not.
The same is true about the word "epée" in modern French language-they just call every long edged weapon an "epée". Even a Katana is listed in vendors' catalogues under the headline "epée"...
Lets continue with the "spada" 😉
First blood theory in epee vs take the life of an attacker in foil is reflected in the target area not the concept of priority. The target area in epee is the entire body, making hand and arm touches equally valid as the torso. In foil only lethal touches are considered valid, thus torso only making arms and legs off-target.
Note how the epee du combat has holes on the handguard- those serve to catch the opponent's blade tip from sliding/bouncing off the guard and scoring a stab on the arm, or the torso. Clever! 😊👌
I wouldn't insist on differentiating those two swords you presented without feeling their weight first, which would reveal the eventual differences in fighting style and maybe qualify the more robust one as the epee. Its about the technique:
With epee, you are often trying to keep your opponent's blade pointing away and thrust while maintaining the pressure on his blade. A foil is too light and fast for that to work reliably, so slapping the op.'s blade away often does a better job than trying to lock it and slide your blade down it. With a foil, you can afford to let your blade tip not aiming at the opponent at all times. With epee, due to its weight, that would be too risky unless you are very very strong.
So... That, with the weapon weight and the valid target surface (in foil, only scores to the body are valid) are literally the only differences between the modern epee and foil I can think of. Boring, no? Thats why I had to include the saber and then after 25 yrs I discovered HEMA. And then added some jousting and horse archery. Now it feels complete. 😁
+scholagladiatoria *The **_épée de combát_** is the final evolution o' the small sword.* An equilateral-triangle cross-section in spring steel, with all three edges on the _faible_ sharpened against grabs; larger-area shell guards as a side benefit.
Acute accents on As are not a thing in French.
Matt out here with the high capacity assault sword.
In France we tend to call that type of sword "épée de duel" (duel sword) and the small sword "épée de cour" (court sword, a weapon reserved for nobles).
Hello. I have a French 1756 Sergeants sword with a plain steel Smallsword hilt and a fine 34" trefoil blade...much like the ones in the video. In France is it primarily the hilt or the blade that determine the type?
Live long and prosper, Gavin.
About those scams... random comment here but has anyone else noticed scammy commercials with investment opportunities that when you click on the three dots menu lead to the actual website instead of the menu where you opt out of those?
Would they be purchased as a set of two, whereas one person would bring a set, then the other person would choose one?
They seem to have been sold in matched pairs, yes.
Yes they were. And it was the primary reason many did not have canted grips. In a duel often the swords were chosen randomly by lots and were checked by the witnesses for length, chips, dirt etc before being handed over to the principles: Meaning the grips had to be perfectly straight and couldn't be canted for a left or right hander because there was no guarantee of which sword you were going to get. This protocol changed in later dueling codes as french and italian duelists faced each other more often, because french and italian epees have very different grips, and thus you could use your own canted weapon if you wished.
I've been stabbed inadvertently during an epee bout. Not pleasant.
Hard hit on the guard broke opponent's blade near the tip, which flexed and sprung through the arm of my jacket. I was fortunate that the offending blade just went under the skin of my extended arm so no great damage done, except the blade was still live and the experience was similar to being tasered I expect.
can small swords be modified in to bayonets? considering that they are very light and won't effect the weight of the firearm too much once loaded on to it
I'm sure they could, but it wouldn't make sense to do so. Smallswords are expensive, officers weapons, whereas bayonets are used by the rank-and-file, and bayonets shaped like a smallsword can be made comparatively cheaply.
You don´t need to do weird things. Just have a look at a French Rosalie bayonet or a Russian Nagant bayonet and what do you find?. Long, light, triangular blades. In the French case, a 64cm long, with a 52cm blade with only 460g of weight
"french murder sword" is a good name. In theory, duel was a criminal offense, treated either as assassination, attempted assassination or injury, but rarely prosecuted. There was a real pressure upon men to duel for whatever reason, because being a "monsieur qui ne se bat pas" (a sir who does not fight) was a sentence of social exclusion.
But I think it was bad in the whole western world : in the USA, the navy lost two third of its officers in duel between 1798 and 1860. Not sure which weapon was used for those however.
Any idea of why, after moving from the transitional rapier to the shorter smallsword, there was a return to a longer blade?
heya am a sport fencer in epee so this is what ie been told
it has alot to do with the improvement with metal work so the thin light blade became possible
as a fencer i have an opinion of my opponent being as far away as possible
hope this helps
@@liamjames9532 mmh.. I doubt that to be the case because in Italy and Spain the smallsword already had a longer blade, compared to the trend in France
@@zerozerosud I have a French 1756 Sergeant's Smallsword with a 34" trefoil blade. It is most certainly above average...what length did Spanish and Italian Smallsword blades average?
@@Master...deBater If I remember correctly they stayed closer to 90cm, so a couple of inches longer
Those Epees are the longest bayonettes I have ever seen 😉
Every time I hear "my friend Gavin" I feel inclined to comment a Red Dead Redemption 2 reference
I have always wondered about why i think it was in Germany they had leather head protection but got cut on their cheeks was the scars a badge of honor i know nothing about sword fighting
My first fencing teacher showed us a very sharp cane sword, this is what this sport represents, he said. I had solice in the idea that my first "touche" was originally fatal. If I was accurate.
Bigger finger guard would also help protect wrist,same principle
Smallsword for wearing, no scabbard for an epée de combat, longer grip for padded gauntlet.
Hmm, I've always wondered what type of rapier Thibault is writing about.. Visually it looks like one of Gustav vasa's with cross guard but w/o knucklebow looking ones but then again the various illustrations of the blade and hilt FROM THE BOOK ITSELF seem to be much more slender and compact... like a smallsword with a crossguard but with a longer blade! Now holding a basic cup hilt rapier weight is quite a chore doing destreza-like movements feels clumsy (to me) without proper strength and conditioning. Made me consider smallswords but i wish they were made with longer blades. Perhaps the Combat Epee deserve a category of its own... in between rapiers and smallswords or is there a term for this? Its still isnt a spadroon yes? Maybe I should take it as a hint that the book Academie de l'Espée has it as indicated. :)
How flexible are these blades?
I had no idea it was for first blood..Thats prety cool , they still look frightening and im sure youl get nasty ones who just want to take your eye out
Epees were not "possibily lethal". They were extremely lethal, and that first blood was likely to be the last one. Due to the sharp point, in the heat of combat, it was very likely for an epee to penetrate 15-20cm in the opponent's body without the wielder feeling any resistance. In 19th century, to treat that kind of wound, was VERY difficult. In the belly, or in a lung, even a shallower wound was a death sentence.
That's why authors of the time advocated the use of dueling sabers to solve honor matters.
The scratch of a dueling saber was way less serious in comparison.
Thats what i thought its like being stabbed with a spike by the way this would go strait thru a kevlar police vest unless its got chain mail on it ,,but according to the two experts above murder was not there aim . The aim was to make you wet, just a tiny bit of blood and the fight was ended ..Purpously murdering some one will cause you a lot of trouble. youl be constantly watching your back for retribution from there family. and mates ..So il stick with the expert vew on this @@neutronalchemist3241
Testing an SCA epee with a broken tip (squared off, not sharpened) against large cuts of meat, with and without “armor,” it is very obvious: they are stabbing weapons. 3’ needle. You could feel when it penetrates the butcher’s wrapping, then nothing.
If I recall duels were very fashionable in German universities among the students throughout the 19th century and well into the 20th. They liked giving and getting face scars, as a sign of masculinity.
9:03
However, I know an account of a duel between two champions using sharp épées and one killed the other and that was probably the intention. They simply had, well, a competence dispute over whose fighting school was better. Matt, I hope you won't end similar disputes between schools this way ;) As for the reason for the increasingly larger guards, maybe carrying comfort was less and less important because no one carried these weapons anymore? In fact, as far as I know, such weapons ceased to be carried earlier, but perhaps for some time they retained some of the traditional proportions, and then gradually moved away from the original.
Epees were not "possibily lethal". They were extremely lethal. Due to the sharp point, in the heat of combat, it was very likely for an epee to penetrate 15-20cm in the opponent's body without the wielder feeling any resistance. In 19th century, to treat that kind of wound, was VERY difficult. In the belly, or in a lung, even a shallower wound was a death sentence.
That's why authors of the time advocated the use of dueling sabers to solve honor matters.
The scratch of a dueling saber was way less serious in comparison.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Some special forces guy said they carry a small knife hidden somewhere and even a shallow stab in the liver area is fatal.
🍻
Hema-related question: Is it true that left-handed swordsmen have a significant advantage over right-handed opponents in a 1 on 1 duel.
It is a trope that comes up in some books and video games, and it is true in some modern sports, but how big a difference is it really compared to something like experience.
They do have a statistical advantage, because they are rarer. Left handed fencers are used to fighting right handers. Right handed fencers are less used to fighting left handers. However, there is no biological advantage, and if you fence lefties a lot, then the advantage disappears for the right hander. So it's just a matter of lefties being less numerous.
There are far less left handed people than right handed people. In termes of sparring, left handed people are almost exclusively fencing with right handed people. You get your experience in sparring and that's why it is more difficult to fight left handed people even if you are left handed yourself. You can train with a left handed fencer in your club but it is not enought. Moreover, in termes of speed, it seems also that left handed people have faster reflexes.
Similar to left handed batters.
That all being said, you can really mess up the leftie if you are able to switch to the left hand yourself. Facing a left-hander might be rare for you, but it's even rarer for them.
Anything we lefties can do to you, you can also do to us. The difference is that we're more used to it.
Epees were not "possibily lethal". They were extremely lethal. Due to the sharp point, in the heat of combat, it was very likely for an epee to penetrate 15-20cm in the opponent's body without the wielder feeling any resistance. In 19th century, to treat that kind of wound, was VERY difficult. In the belly, or in a lung, even a shallower wound was a death sentence.
The scratch of a dueling saber was way less serious in comparison.
Well, when we say 'possibly' I suppose we mean it might go through a non-lethal location. In the same way that .22 bullets are often not lethal, despite going through someone.
@@scholagladiatoria The difference is that .22 bullets are sterilized by the shots and, if (that's the main source of infection), parts of the victim's clothing are carried into the wound, there are antibiotics.
Triangular shaped blade, like an old fashioned bayonet.
I have one of those in elden ring ;)
It's Gav! Yay!
Bring back first blood duels I say!
👍🏻🇫🇷👍🏻
live long and prosper mate xD
Pure speculation on my part, but if I need to shed blood without having a lasting injury I wouldn't want my smart hand cut up. I really rather, given the weapon in question, take a poke in an arm or leg. Yes, I might bleed out if I'm unlucky, but if I take a hit to the hand I'm apt to be crippled, and, unable to effectively duel in the future, where as an epee to the arm or leg, baring the relatively narrow chance at death, will likely heal without too much lasting disability. I mean, a slash to the face will eventually leave me with a cool scar and a story to tell, but being down my good right hand is going to be a real life problem. Maybe I'm off my nut, but I can see risking a poke while still being worried about my hand, especially if we aren't actually trying to seriously wound or kill one another.
Question for your partner, there's nothing to do with your video or anything like that I have a Spanish Heritage in my background here in Texas, and I wanted to know what was the style and preferred weapon of the Spanish around the time of the Mexican-American War for the Alamo and such if you know please give me a holler back okay
How is it not a small sword by another name?
Should have waited
Because it's big 😂 jk
For what it's worth, I think the pommel decoration is an ornate Phrygian cap, rather than a helmeted head.
Looks just like a foil, so why isn't it a foil?
A nasty needle 🪡
Read épée de combá
Lit lí
Et é
Apparat appará
But bú
WTF are you on about!?
@@frontenac5083 learn french man
Alternatively, in a time when manual labor was more common, a wound to the hand might have been seen as too debilitating. A Harrison Ford scar on your chin is a conversation starter. A missing finger is much, much worse in the time period, perhaps ending your career!
basicly épée de combat is a big sword