SWORDBREAKER - IN ACTION
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- In the spirit of "weird weapons", In the first of two films, I decided to surprise Matt Easton with a 'sword breaker'. They were rare and we don't know much about them - but most importantly how were they used and what were they for?
In this episode we look at two rapier fighters, one armed with the sword breaker and discover a bit more about them.........and get more confused.
Part 1 of 'Weird Medieval Weapons - Sword Breaker" can be found here • SWORD BREAKER
I have looked at this before (without Matt but with Hobb), and my first video can be found here • Sword "Breaker" or Swo...
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Schola Gladiatoria. / scholagladiatoria
I REALLY enjoyed seeing this one tested, and honestly, I would absolutely want one of these if I was kicking around in the 16th century. Perhaps the only change I would make is to add hooked quillons and have those teeth a little wider spaced.
next video testing it against side swords?
What if the teeth were made to be longer? Would longer teeth throw off the balance?
I think the name sword breaker doesn't necessarily mean that it snaps the blades in half. I think it's old fashioned and it's being used the way you would "break" a horse. It's synonymous with taming. It allows you to tame and control the blade the way you would a horse, therefore you've "broken" the enemy's blade.
Honestly, having a sword breaker is such a powerful move.
@@Assdafflabaff I don't think the name 'sword breaker' was used in period, it's just a modern invention. As far as I know, we have no period accounts talking about these specific daggers, so we don't know what they called them.
Tod, I'm loving this series with Matt. You guys are both a wealth of knowledge and seeing real implementation is fascinating.
Seconded
same here absolutly love their colaboration
Totally agree.
Thanks Collin and we enjoy it
Fun to see actual HEMA pros play with an unfamiliar blade type. They seemed to adapt to its flaws and strengths quite quickly. Fascinating to watch!
The only thing more fun that watching an expert share his knowledge is watching an expert discover and explore.
And we do
I kinda want Tod to make one for one of Matts pupils who will use it for a month or 2 so we can see someone who actually has experience using it. Just from looking at it, i believe you need quite a lot of experience with a weapon like that to actually become effective with it.
That is a nice idea, but would require some dedication from the student
@@tods_workshop I mean you could ask matt to give the offer to his students, maybe one will bite.
This tool seems like it would require more practice time to really pay off. It seems to require a change in angling of the blade to increase contact and percussion to "break" an opponent's attacks and flow rather than deflect them.
I imagine holding it ninety degrees to the arm and making a sweeping motion would be effective, and would make some sense with the side ring, but I am no fencer.
Fascinating videos.
Real martial fighting is so amazing to see on this channel!
Thank you , Tod .
Thanks Matt and guys .
Awesome to see one actually in use
Really enjoying the series, please do the lantern shield.
That was significantly more useful than I was expecting it to be
So cool seeing your tools in action
Great experimental research guys! This type of work and video is definitely more than the mere addition of you two, and the best of your videos. Long life to your enlightened collaboration. (and thank for the subtitles, that definitely help non native speaking like me ;D)
Great video! I sense a visit to Jason Kingsley in the near future.
Very cool series!!! Good work by all!! Merry Christmas!!!
Thank you so much for the subtitles for the masked fighters!
Kudos to those fighters, by the way. Such an interesting demonstration.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think another thing to consider with the the swordbreaker is that it could also be meant to be used as a pair instead of just one, which may be where the name really comes from.
Could their rarity and our lack of knowledge about them mean they were something tried and tested and abandoned rather soon?
That's definitely possible, but there are lots of reasons why something could have been abandoned. Off the top of my head, they could have been rare because of the cost of manufacture, difficulty of making strong enough steel in period, the specific style of duel going out of favor, difficulty to learn, or poor aesthetics.
Someone might have more information than I do, but if the reason they're rare isn't known I'd think it is worthwhile to test them out and try to figure out a reason in practice.
Also cultural issues, these could have been considered unsportsmanlike and therefore rarely used.
@@holyknightthatpwns also they were likely fairly ineffective on there own when the range was two short to properly apply the rapier a more conventional dagger is much better in a tavern brawl
As always, fascinating to watch y’all work these thing out 👍👍
that was soo fantastic to watch
This is a great series of videos.
Thanks - appreciated
I always thought this knife catcher.. would be amazing in a fight
Hello Tod and Matt based on your analysis I would agree this would be best for cutting swords. My guess would be this would be used against a better cutting sword to help trap it due to its superior stopping power compared to a rapier for example even if run through an opponent still may be alive to deliver a cut that cleaves parts the body off this might be to help in case a mortally wounded opponent further runs themselves through to try to take their opponent out with them and keep the rapier trapped inside unable to cause any more further stopping force.
Looking forward to seeing the sword breaker against a more cut based weapon.
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Amazing vid once again boys!
What if the gaps were angled? To help the first issue Matt points out
EDIT: For those who also noticed the closed captions part cut off the swordsman’s part real quick, he says “I’m finding that even if I don’t grab the blade, the fact that slows it down a little is just enough.”
it is strange when people who are fond of the past do not feel the epoch. In those days, when artisans took students to themselves, they did not teach them, but only allowed them to look at their actions - no one needs new competitors, but they cannot do without help, so they took students.
No one would reveal the secrets of their mastery in treatises. All the "medieval treatises on fencing" are recent forgeries.
Forgeries appeared en masse in the 18th-19th centuries, when the bourgeois who bought the nobility began to build "family" castles filled with "ancestral armor", but even in our time, antique forgeries are not uncommon, so the world-famous cycle of "medieval Italian music" turned out to be a collection of works by the Soviet Jew Vavilov - he would not be allowed to perform this music if it were known that it was his compositions.
It's funny to see how an adult naively, like a child, believes that these fake treatises on fencing are true.
Its always great to see a demonstration of how something is used. Keep it up! New subscriber here!
It's interesting how nuanced and intricate each of these weird weapons are. It feels like you could write a full dissertation on each one of them, especially when you start considering the different time periods and locations they could have been used.
One issue though. The timing for the first part of the first answer in the subtitles is a bit messed up. That is to say the subtitle that ends "is it a learning curve?" hangs around for so long that the subtitle that ends with "slows it down a little is just" only appears on screen for a very brief moment before being replaced by the subtitle that ends with "rather than having and edge"
It's hard to read the subtitles at 4:14 because the first sentence only appears for a second. Should be easy to fix the timings. Great video as always.
These series with Schola Gladiatoria are amazing! And I keep thinking that the name "Swordbreaker" might just be a simple marketing ploy, which turned into it's name.
Very cool.
I think I would go for several German made wheel locks instead of one of these. And a Bowie.
It seems that every time they successfully caught a sword, it was roughly in the same spot on the sword breaker. Makes sense that it would be difficult and impractical to catch a sword on either the near or long edge of the swordbreaker. Perhaps you could save yourself some time and resources by only having one, two, or maximum, three indentations on the blade in that area near the center instead of all along the edge.
But I guess then you'd lose that advantage of slowing the opposing blade. Still, if the sword breaker only had a few, dramatically larger teeth they'd be more likely to actually catch the blade.
And this Ladies and Gentlemen how the story (usage) of these weapons will one day be learned.
Awesome
I think perhaps against a non-training rapier you would not only increase the likelyhood of “catching” the blade due to thickness, but also due to binding. Sharpened swords bind much better than trainers, I suspect that the small amount of edge deformation you might achieve with a sharp blade between the teeth of the sword breaker could perhaps reduce the chances of it slipping out?
I would love to hear your thoughts about the Francisca, the Frankish throwing axe. I love the shape and as an amateur blacksmith I tried to make some myself but as I never held a historical one so I'm not 100% sure how curate they are. They might not be the most unusual of weapons but I think they are still not well understood, like if they had normal or outward curved handles (I think that theory came because a lot of reproductions are made wrong with the head being "bend" downwards to make the curve and so the handle curving outwards puts the blade more back in line like a normal axe) Looking forward to the next video, greetings from Belgium.
I'm wondering if used against a slashing sword if the dagger would just be ripped out of your hand. Parries need to either deflect or adsorb with some give.
Re. Matt's comment that the swordbreaker is not efficient at catching rapiers: real sharp rapiers would get trapped more easily than the blunt ones used here, wouldn't they?
I have always wondered if the name sword breaker was meant more as a sword stopper...as it breaks the cut when it binds. Perhaps it is just instance of symantics taken to literal?
IE many people have deadlines in the work place. But no one dies if they are not met. Thats kind of thing, if that makes since.
Opening comment - sharp blades supposedly slide less, so trapping a sharp blade might be easier to some degree.
In a way it's a portable micro-buckler thingy you could pull in a street fight and gain a little advantage over the opponent?
I know people keep saying it's for dueling but if it was common in duels one might think there would be more records of them being used?
Maybe they did exist but they never caught on. No pun intended :)
I know we mostly do European swords but I'd love to see a Japanese jitte in use, same principle
We need more HEMA in America, start sending some dudes over to PA to open schools you'd do well. It worked here for Japanese Karate in the 1970s, PA loves martial arts at the local level.
It would be more interesting to see its use against a two-handed sword.
HEMA Stigs
One interesting throwaway comment .... "left handed"!
Is there any record of left against right handed bias? Could it be an advantage to have the swordbreaker in your right hand?
From my days fencing, facing a left hander was always problematic
Science!
I wonder if instead of trying to catch the sword or slow down the trust try to swat the sword away, more like a slapping or chopping movement.
It's probably less effective to swat away the opponent's sword than to let it slide against your blade and deflect.
For one, with a deflect you always know where the sword is by feeling it. Then you can deflect with minimal strength and energy. Finally, with a deflect, your own blade can still be pointed at the opponent.
Swatting a blade away would destabilize your stance, use more energy, and make you loose information about where the blade is. It might even give some energy to your opponent to help them retrieve their blade for a follow up strike.
So, time to rename it sword catcher?
A better name I Think
I would love to see a follow-up with sidesword/backsword vs. the sword-breaker just to test the hypothesis about more cut-centric styles.
I'm wondering if you use it like a normal perry dagger vs rapiers, but locking for the sideswords.
I think we will come back for that - it is a great idea
@@tods_workshop Another thing to look at, given the possibility of teeth breaking off that you mentioned in an earlier video, might be to remove a few (perhaps every other tooth to make the testing easier) and see how it functions that way.
There's also the possibility to design two different tooth spacings and test them both against both kinds of blade dimensions at the same time.
I think that the sword breaker needs a bit of its own series, akin to the lockdown longbow,, where it's design is tweaked to be a more practice oriented blade and tested against a few different types of blade as mentioned in other comments
We could always come back
@@tods_workshop That would be very cool! :)
I love how Matt beams around his students. It's lovely to see a teacher so personally invested in their student's success!
It should really be the default for teachers. I had a few such teachers. By far the best classes.
We live in a wonderful time, where such an experiment, demanding knowledge, expert weapon creation, weapon use and on-the-spot discussion, is possible. Formal historians should notice, here is history brought to life.
Thanks, that is very generous of you
My gut says you could get a writeup of this published in a scholarly journal. Really great stuff Tod, thanks for educating all of us.
This is great practical history research.
Thank you an dI personally just find it really interesting and I know Matt does too
Perfect. This sort of experimental archaeology/re-enactment is worth ten books of theory and for teaching us about how the objects are properly used is the best tool we have.
Thank you
I think the name sword breaker doesn't necessarily mean that it snaps the blades in half. I think it's old fashioned and it's being used the way you would "break" a horse. It's synonymous with taming. It allows you to tame and control the blade the way you would a horse, therefore you've "broken" the enemy's blade.
Yeah, that seems a good nod
Or breaking in shoes
Sword breaker is a modern name, it's just not historical.
Of all the explanations offered I think this feels the most likely
@@tods_workshop But it's not named as such in older sources, is it? If the name appears around the nineteenth century or something - and that's my suspicion - then trying to find explanations for its ancient meaning is just dumb, for there is none. We're discussing about a most likely random made up english name, I don't get it.
I love these joint things and the facts that you guys seem to acknowledge the caveats in your knowledge. I get the impression that Matt is no expert in Rapiers so he gets two experts to test the weapon. This is good science.
Also, I'm with the cutting logic. When somebody is dedicated to a cut, it would be hard for them to retract before you bind the blade.
Con: video has someone speaking in a mask that is hard to hear
Pro: video lets viewers know that subtitles are available
Con: subtitles for the sentence in question is about 2 frames long
Absolutely fantastic! Just having the teeth slows down the blade enough to get an advantage, who would have thought? I would love to see the side sword theory tested (and other types of sword as well) or even just a sword breaker with wider gaps between the teeth.
Lantern Shields? Oh, you tease!
That surprised me too
You should definitely test it with some side swords, I think that's a really interesting idea!
One thing that came to mind while you two were speaking - maybe it is really less about catching, and more about controlling. More specifically - directing the trajectory of the blade in a different way than jus a deflection from a flat surface.
Possibly, but the serrations on the opponents dagger do that; this is more than that
It works better than I thought
Actually, you can use swordbreaker to break sword. You need to catch opponents blade, fix it so it doesn't move, and then cut it with a katana.
One of the things I am really enjoying, in this series, is not just the video but the wealth of informed discussion in the comments it generates
So much. Not just this video, but for some reason the comments section on my vids is mainly free of abuse and is just crammed with fabulous information
@@tods_workshop The content, presentation, and community involvement of a channel tends to attract and promote certain kinds of audiences. Your material is largely educational on a niche topic, presented in a professional manner, and you openly invite (and respond to, thus, in some regard, 'reward') debate, additions, and other such comments.
I was thinking about a more functional version of batman's armor based on late medieval/renaissance examples, and I realized how useful a swordbraker would be to him. By doing a few modifications to his classic (and useless) forearm blades, and of course, making them retractable, he could easily block, catch and disarm an opponent. The longer the blade, the easier it would be.
I wonder about the academic value beyond entertainment of this video series…
I hope you publish the findings of your experiments
So where's the subtitle of the masked guy. All I get is the subs from you two that we can hear.
Interesting though
I have never clicked so fast.
Loving this kind of experimental archeology ❤️ The joy of not knowing stuff and allowing the research to come forward .... brilliant.
Thanks and it is a mine of information for us too
This is some good stuff unavailable elsewhere.
I think these are late medieval/early renaissance version of tacticool. There's probably use for them, but I doubt it would be enough to justify the complexity and additional training it takes.
You definitely have a point, but I guess that is really what this film is about - is that the case?
Honestly, I think that the sword breaker is almost an aggressive defense weapon, where you're almost trying to actively catch the opponent's weapon before either of you start to commit to an attack. If that's the case, having it designed to optimize catching nearer the tip of the blade makes sense to me. But that's just what my absolutely in experienced impression is, after watching just a bit of their use.
"Like the Japanese 🗾 🇯🇵 🏯 ⛩ Katana sword?" ⚔ "Or the Indian 🇮🇳 whip sword ⚔ called 🤙 the Urumi?"
On the "breaker" being a misnomer, I would suspect the name to be metaphorical for a modern perspective but literal for contemporaries. In german treatises breaking something is used synonymous with defeating or countering something for example several iterations of "widerpruch" (the break towards) from Andre Lignitzer or "Bruch auff den Bogen" (the break for the guard position "Bogen") or simply "Bruch." indicating the start of a paragraph concerning a way to defeat something in Joachim Meyer.
Loved the video, great content as always.
Can we see spadroon versus trebuchet next time?
Subtitles need a bit of a tune-up. Had to pause the video to understand what was initially said then they caught up.
Sorry, will have a look at that
I think “break” in the context of sword-breaker means to defeat or nullify…
The bind at 5:31 was soooo satisfying to watch! Good point about being (possibly) better against cutting blades - it makes complete sense - if you cut it's much easier to match the angle, and despite that I also never thought about it.
This is so cool. I would love to try a blunt "swordbreaker" with a rolled tip for sparring. (I think it wouldn't be safe enough though with the built in weak spots that can turn sharp for general sparring.)
Looking forward to more if possible!
Thanks for the video.
Just as I'm thinking "I can't understand this guy, I wish there were subtitles" the SUBTITLES AVAILABLE sign appeared on the screen. So I rewound a few seconds, turned on English subtitles and picked right back up. Brilliant. Thank you for the extra time care and attention to make that happen.
i wonder if its possible that the spcific dagger you based this off of was left handed. Maybe thats made it special enough to survive
They are all pretty similar to this, so no I think it was a left handed dagger, but for right handed sword fighters
I wonder about the zigzag blade if we're talking about slowing down. Or maybe something like spikes at a 45degree pointing up. Like a pine cone. Basically different designs to show which one trap the sword best.
This channel’s awesome. I’m always looking for informational content, and I really needed something to help me focus on drawing.
Matt, "That's my rapier..." [Matt's rapier bends alarmingly in the Swordbreaker] 😱
While it didn't break any swords and getting it to do that would be unlikely, it did seem like if you really torqued on it or hit it with your own sword while it was locked on, you could probably put a nasty bend in the other guy's sword, enough to mess it up pretty badly. But "Sword Breaker" sounds so much cooler than "Sword Bender" or "Sword Ruiner" or "Sword Spoiler". Or it could be a language thing, "broken" doesn't necessarily mean "in multiple pieces", it can mean "not working right", and a sword with a big ol' kink in it won't work right, that's for sure.
If I recall, in another video Tod said there are two existing examples in museums. Does make one wonder if they were experimental prototypes that failed to catch on. Maybe you are figuring out what they did back then "looks cool but does not work". At least you are having fun trying.
Would it work better if the teeth were on both sides or even slightly angled in V or X shape? It could still have the pointy end for the desperate offensive moves. Regardless of what we would do now, the whole concept requires a plenty of practice and maybe a good eye on judging the opponent. The only drawback I can think would be the weight, especially if it's X shaped. Considering that maybe there are lighter materials that could work well once the design is finalised. And I don't mean titanium, but some polymer based or even hardwood. The idea, after all is that you trap opponent blade and deliver a blow with your main weapon whatever it is, because I think this could work with an axe or mace combo.
A sharp sword meeting a sharp dagger should be able to bind a lot more than blunt alternatives - how would that "friction" compare to what he was describing at 8:22 ? I wonder if this sword breaker is kind of disproportionately overperforming in practice sparring, because of the use of blunt swords. To clarify, I imagine it'd only be more effective if using sharp blades; but I imagine that a standard parrying dagger would be considerably more effective than it is when fencing with blunt blades
While you speculate on tooth size and technique, another possibility occurs to me. Perhaps the sword breaker idea didn't actually work very well and that could be why you don't find many of them.
Or not.
It’s not physically destroying the sword, it’s breaking it. Sword no longer functions when caught/slowed
Your focus was initially on the guy holding the odd weapon. You eventually gave a thought to the guy fighting against the odd weapon. I wonder if that isn't the more important point. Think about fighting against an odd weapon as somewhat like fighting a lefty. Training goes out the window when fighting against an odd weapon, while the guy holding the odd weapon gets to practice up with it.
The guy facing an odd weapon finds his pacing is off. He's likely to be distracted. The advantages of oddity don't rely as much on facing a cutting weapon as opposed to a thrusting weapon, which could be problematic in a world full a various weapons. Screws with the opponent's game whatever weapon he is using.
Trapping would be bonus points, not the most important objective. In fact, focusing on trapping may be risky. If it happens, it happens, but you really want the oddity of your weapon to mess with your opponent without you putting extra effort into it.
The “sword Breaker” is more a defensive shield, you receive the opponents cut/thrust then you attack....
I wonder if tapering the gap size down the blade might be useful. Shorter gaps towards the point, wider gaps near to the hand. As the offending blade slides down, it seems liable to progress further down the hilt and thus, the would-be-trapped blade getting thicker. Meaning, a wider gap would be necessary to allow it to slide in. It would also then take advantage of the blade having been slowed by the previous tines, making it more easily caught in that regard (although being further down the blade, the offender would also have greater leverage to resist and retract it than at the tip).
I am also curious about changing the 'angle' of the tines; as it stands, they are parallel and perpendicular to the rest of the blade, meaning that they trap the most easily (or exclusively allow for) contact at close to ninety degrees. You could rotate the tines 45 (or some other value) degrees relative to the distal of the blade. This would make the gaps better angled to allow in a blade when held point forward, rather than perpendicular (thus allowing thicker blades entry). That might make the tines weaker and more liable to break, though.
Try holding it by the backside guard like a tonfa so it covers the forearm. Thatll provide the leverage youre missing. Could just be gaps are under spaced tho, not meant to pinch so much as lever so more spacing will actually give more grip as it locks down. Ive seen some notched out at the opening of the slits or a diamond formation but id really have to test to tell if worth the extra forging effort or would compromise it and break the teeth. Tho id prob still rather have a handaxe to trap and break blades.
I suspect break in this context is similar to a breakwater. It doesn't actually destroy it, just make it slower and more manageable. Or it could just be Victorians being Victorians, no clue when the name is from.
That first caption spot is messed up for me. It holds Todd's captions through 95% of what the fencer said and then skips away from the fencer captions almost immediately.
I though i had when you said sword breaker was a misnomer was that it might refer not to breking the blade but to breaking the attack. Kind of like you can "break stride". But I don't remember what's been said earlier if the name is a purely modern invention or if it's actually something found in historical sources.